How to Dispute Irrational Beliefs (Without Arguing)
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2024
- It can be all too human to jump in too fast and draw quick conclusions on the meaning or reason behind something, adding to what are often irrational beliefs. Often with ambiguous events, a 'meaning vacuum' occurs, leaving us without immediate clarity on the event.
We all need to be able to wait patiently and let a situation calm down before deciding what - if anything - we should do about it. This can be the difference between 'believing' and 'knowing', and I talk more about that distinction later in the video, with some tips on how to carefully help someone make that distinction, and how to dispute irrational beliefs.
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Video highlights:
00:00 Introduction
00:15 A story about storytelling
02:39 The princess and the premature conclusion
03:46 When we rush to muddy the meaning of something
05:32 3 tips to help dispute irrational beliefs
05:43 Tip 1. Cast subtle doubt on irrational beliefs
07:39 Tip 2. Ask them to generate other possible interpretations on what has happened
09:56 Tip 3. Draw a distinction between 'believing' and 'knowing'
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++About Mark Tyrrell++
Psychology is my passion. I've been a psychotherapist trainer since 1998, specializing in brief, solution focused approaches. I now teach practitioners all over the world via our online courses.
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This should be mandatory content for our society on the brink of mass psychosis .
On the brink?
@@oneyaker
In the midst.....is probably more precise.
🙏🙏🙏❤️
Most of us are probably still stuck for a while in a stage of neurosis…
Yea, good luck with that.
There is a reason why the majority of people do not understand many of the words and sentences used in this video.
Installing quality education, focused on critical thinking, for at least 15-20 years, uninterrupted by opposing governments, is a fairy tale scenario.
The "pause" is also the most important tool for sales, comedy, actiors, singers, public speakers, but most important of all for couples & parents.
Sounds easy to Pause, but it takes discipline and real practice. Worth its weight in gold once accomplished.
@@pschilling5424 True.
What are "i r rational b eliefs" and who decides what are? In fact, almost no one believes anything that is completely "i rrational" (unless they believe the main-stream m e d i a which peddles propagnda).
Who is this guy and who appointed him to decide what is "r a t i o n a l" or not?
@@briansimmons8643 ?
Assuming the worst is also a protective device for those who have suffered from disappointment or rejection.
Exactly some times looking at worst case scenario...it usually doesn't happen
Sometimes what one person sees as looking for the worst is actually pragmatism.
@@terriv9002 that is so true as well
As a child I learned to expect the worst because I usually got it. When parents are intentionally evil the worst happens a lot. But that is not a normal occurrence in the real world.
As an adult I have to assume the worst because it happens a lot to me. And no, I do not agree that I get what I expect because I expect it.
I would rather be wrong and pleasantly surprised than to get the worst when I did not expect it.
I finally understood my parents malignant behaviour when I found out about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I found Dr Les Carters RUclips channel, 'Surviving Narcissism', helpful.
This is great. I also remind myself that If someone is trying to drag me into their drama, I remember that their emergency is not my emergency.
"Ask evidence seeking questions". When I am feeling good, this is my approach. But, what very often happens is the other party does not hear an evidence-seeking question. Instead, they often hear a challenge. And theninstead of answering, they defend against the challenge.
About emails: if you know you get angry easily and you have written an email while you are angry do not send it until you have calmed down. The best way I found to calm down is do something repetitive such as clean something or watch tv\RUclips even.
It is as though when you're angry you are a different person, literally.
even better, don't write it in the email itself so you don't accidentally send it. write it on a word document then cut and paste it to email if you decide it really needs to be sent. or delete the word document and never think of it again.
@@watcherwlc53 yep, that works too. If you have to write in email client like outlook, write but remove addresses from to and cc and bcc whichever ones you have.
@@watcherwlc53 maybe, use the Draft storage?
@@pschilling5424 you could, but I was thinking about writing your material so it's nowhere near your actual email at all so there's no chance whatsoever of sending it accidentally.
Hello, it's not Anger. I don't have that problem. I'm wanting to write a book and for ediding process. I like to compose off the top of my head and think quickly. Most of time grammer/spelling is correct, but as you imaging, a prep here or there of spelling issue? I like to think that I'm done and send off to my embaresment. Hate editing my work. Vision not too good either. Booring, too. Just thinknig that I make a mess of emails to friends, like this too? So, perhaps, clicking emails/writing into Drafts? Not anger, just careless. Thanks for replying. Sorry, to mislead you.
I'm not editing this now.
Wow! Clearly articulated. 1) cast subtle doubt. Nod, then stop nodding where you are ambivalent about what is being said. 2) Suggest alternate explanations. 3) separate ‘belief’ from ‘knowledge’.
Yes but you yourself have to know what the difference between belief and knowledge is. Do you? How do you know? For most it’s because they have simply believed some ‘authority’.
@@PeterbFree - this guy is a therapist.
@@debrasmith4675 Yes that is correct. What has that got to do with my question to you?
@@PeterbFree - your question Peter, is meant to be a rhetorical trap.
@@debrasmith4675 I literally have not idea what you mean
"You don't know, until you know" I need to remember that.
I completely agree about the difference between KNOWING and BELIEVING, something most people tend to confuse.
Confirmation Bias and Cognitive Dissonance are built-in to all of us, and you can only hope to minimise them as best you can, by becoming aware of them!
@@michaelchildish True, it's an ongoing challenge.
"something most people tend to confuse" ... I agree even the speaker confused them as the earth traveling around the sun is indeed something one can KNOW. In fact you can prove that it is so with simple observations and mathematics no more advanced that what you learned in high school.
@@michaelchildish I don't think either of those is innate. The first requires a bias to confirm and the second requires conflicting beliefs.
@@pattygould8240 if you check the wikipedia article for Confirmation Bias, you will find it really is intrinsic.
As for cognitive dissonance, we all have moments where we have a strongly held belief that is factually devoid we will not react to in the best way when conflicting evidence is presented, even if it's just a quick moment of it, for the better educated of us.
And so a feedback loop of Confirmation Bias and Cognitive Dissonance is set up.
Ironically, unless you can provide evidence to back up your statement, your opinion about confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, is displaying Confirmation Bias and Cognitive Dissonance, and possibly the Appeal To Emotion logical fallacy!
Please prove me wrong, if you can, I am happy to learn when mistaken :)
I can see parallels here with when I first started to troubleshoot mechanical equipment. I found it easy to make a false diagnosis from one or 2 symptoms. Then I would ignore all the other symptoms that did not agree with my original diagnosis. I had to learn to hold back, as you say in this video. I have hag to train myself not to have a fixed belief to the cause of a fault. I try not to make a fixed conclusion until the fault has been repaired and tested. Only then do I know what the issue was :) I think this is very similar.
I totally jive with what you are saying. I am CNC tech and work on all makes and models. I don’t have the luxury of specializing in one make. So the symptoms of one may not correspond to another. Step back and observe! It used to make my boss mad! Till he realized that things get diagnosed quicker and more accurately (at a lower cost!).
This helped me tremendously. I diagnose myself with conditions, and I’m no doctor. It causes me to spiral and panic. I will apply this when I’m diagnosing a freckle as something more nefarious.
Rebeca it’s good that you realise that you react this way, because it’s the beginning of growth and maturity as a person. Some people jump to conclusions because of emotional responses such as a fear because they lack the tools to effectively make rational decisions. Lack of understanding and the fear response are the problem to be addressed. I don’t know what you do for a living or what interests you, but I assume that you’ve spent time and effort into understanding and making yourself better at these things. Similarly other people with different interests have applied themselves to learning and perfecting their skills. For example you go to a mechanic to fix your car because you know that to become a mechanic they’ve had to study and practice to become good at it and that they are qualified. Same with carpenters, brick layers, and medical experts. There’s nothing wrong with self-diagnosis if you think you maybe have a problem (same as your car), but if you realise that you don’t have the training, practice and qualifications to form a rational opinion, it’s time to consult an expert.
I think it’s for practitioners, but that’s good.
When it is your skin go to Dr.
Self diagnoised and treated skin pumps-cancer 3rd stage too late to operate or treatment that medicare will pay for . Thank you can ask you and all go Dr.
Cancer checks regularly❤🙏
This is exactly what I try to do with my teen daughter. I talk about belief vs knowledge, and I often will ask her to provide evidence or proof of what she is saying. However, I see that my technique could use softening as I am much more aggressive about attempting to dismantle her irrationality, and I need to guide her to dismantle it herself.
Great advice. A thought: sometimes experience is also open to interpretation and therefore becomes belief instead of knowledge.
All very nice tips. Now try applying them to a flat earther, which is the equivalent of the Princess from the story at the beginning jumping up and down in the pool herself and shouting. The one mistake that rational people always make is to think that they are facing a person interested in rationality on the other end. Rationality will always underestimate the power of (sometimes organized) irrationality. While it is of course good advice to stay calm and not jumping to conclusions, mostly the best move is not to go into a discussion with truly irrational beliefs. Not applicable if it is a client, unfortunately.
We are slowly approaching a time where we are facing incredibly irrational beliefs on a daily basis. There is something wrong, and it will be the challenge of the next decades to find solutions.
Very true, unfortunately. I think the example of the "belief" that the Earth goes round the Sun was also unfortunate. It implies that if you can't personally investigate and establish something, then those sciences or facts are a "belief." But pretty much no one is capable of personally investigating something like this, although this has been scientifically established, centuries ago, and in the meantime confirmed in many ways and countless times. You can no longer call that a "belief" then, it is an established fact.
Otherwise you indeed get such irrational "belief" systems as with flat earthers, who don't believe sound evidence if they can't see for themselves. As in them going to space, because pictures and video's made by others are not to be trusted.
To ask this cautious and compliant kind of questions instead of confronting them with the confirmed facts, confirms in their mind that they are right because you too (seem to) state (or at least sound like you think it possible) science is to be seen as a "belief" you can choose to believe in or not.
@@Keyboardje Exactly. But I have presented countless times evidence that everybody can test for himself that contradicts their belief. Yet they are perfectly capable of ignoring that to an extent that I am convinced they would not even believe the earth is round when being in a capsule in an orbit around it. It all boils down to two things: A rational mind does not want a certain thing to be true, meaning having an agenda, and should not have a problem with being wrong. It is about valuing the truth over being right. A lot of people told me science is not to be trusted, because models and results constantly change. Not realizing that's the way closer to truth. Belief never changes.
The most amazing thing is that they use a computer, which is technology, thus applied science, to tell me that.
@@morn1415
True! LOL
Came here to say this very thing, but I was thinking COVID deniers… but Flat Earthers works too
@@seitanbeatsyourmeat666 What is a covid denier?
This was very well done and I loved the example. My life coach taught me this tool of awareness. "Something similar does not mean it's the same. Don't make things the same". He said that many of us allow history to deform/misinform us instead of inform us. Something triggers us, it's instantaneous and the past swoops in and "muddies the waters" of what is actually happening so that we no longer have clarity. It's like a ghost is in front of us. For example, I very often instantly react to the smallest thing that reminds me of my father and I can then, with unawareness, assign qualities to people and situations that are not actually there, based on my past wounds. With practice, there is now a space available for me to see what is happening as it is happening and I can begin to question my assumptions. It's challenging inner work but so worth it. Cultivating compassion for all the wounded parts of myself that I had denied has also been extremely important. Learning to welcome all parts of myself, a homecoming of sorts, has been paramount. I have D.I.D, working towards greater integration of all parts, adult me reparenting, has been key to greater healing.
very insightful. thanks!
Practise meditation, it helps.
Ha ha ha life coach ! bet your a sucker for every con going
@@gowdsake7103 Why would you say such a thing? Does it make you feel better about yourself to do so? Are you doing your inner work necessary to be a more healthy/balanced/responsible person who understands themselves or just mocking other's who are trying to do so?
@@annemurphy8074 If you cannot survive without a life coach thats pretty sad in many ways, strange as it may seem billions have to work out how to cope on their own . You have to be a special kind of snowflake to say I cannot cope without being told what to do
This is a very useful general approach with irrational thinking. I would like to make the point that if your client's irrational thinking patterns stem from OCD, although this approach can also be useful, the main part of the therapy needs to be Exposure and Response Prevention. This approach differs from general CBT techniques in that it encourages the client to step away from analysing their thoughts, images or feelings. I see a lot of clients who have engaged with general CBT methods and who have not found these useful. They actually serve to exacerbate their OCD rather than help it.
Dealing with depressed friends is very difficult-you can listen and be sympathetic,however,if it goes on for 2years -compassion fatigue sets in along with declining patience I feel worn out as the friend,I don’t want to walk away but for my own sanity,I need to take a break.
I had to ask one friend not to talk about her endlessly destructive on/off relationship anymore but somehow we managed to remain friends.
It's a friendship which is a relationship, so are your needs being met. Being a pseudo counsellor to a friend, assuming all the fun stuff is lacking, is depressing and likely not good for either of you. Just be honest, 'hearing you talk about your depression for too long really makes me sad and unhappy'.
After a while if someone goes on and on about their problems it feels like you don't exist anymore. Not pleasant.
Ikr? I'm the depressed one. And honestly the example he provided as an "irrational one" is just very very plausible. I'm sure that the same plsychologist confronting me with dozens of examples on why my friends are so slow to respond, like it was a chore to them, would encourage said friends to cut ties with me because I just make their lives worse. And from my perspective, I don't have an evidence that they do avoid me, when they do, untill they find a courage to tell me that my only friend leaves me. If that ever happens. Untill then I'll be convinced by my therapist that my thinking is irrational and I should be more anxious because I ought to question myself even more.
@@hekatebleble4800 Some of the examples on why friends are slow to respond could also involve variations on "Yes, responding to you DOES feel like a chore to your friends." That still doesn't mean that you are a terrible person and it also doesn't make your friends terrible friends.
Maybe they are embarrassed, that they don't know how to help you? Maybe your depression makes them feel inadequate as friends and they "forget" to respond because it makes it possible for them to push away that awful feeling of inadequacy ? Maybe they can't handle what they may think is their responsibility as friends: Making you feel better? Maybe they feel guilty because they have thoughts of you making their lives worse? ("Guilty feet have got no rhytm.") Maybe they experience you to be clingy and don't know how to find the balance between helping and not being swallowed by your needs?
There are all kinds of possible reasons friends don't respond and some of the reasons may have a big or small part of them being what you fear: I make my friends lives worse. That is totally human. Even the best of friends can have doubts, messy feelings, uncertainties, make bad decisions and be inadequate. They can still be your friends. Even if they can't be there for you in the way that you would have wished for them to be. Be open to their weaknesses so the can be open to yours. (Easier said than done, I know...)
@@lisedenmark Thank you. What you've just said is perfectly valid and I understand that. That is also a part of what I internalise on a daily basis. My friends are just people, who have human limitations and I value their boundaries. I don't want to force them into more unpleasant experiences and it's only natural they don't wish to suffer through my everyday drama any longer. What I don't understand is that idea of tricking me into thinking that my fears are irrational. You've just given examples how, which is entirely logical, I am a disruptive element in my friends lives and most likely take much more than give. I'm writing as a person who literally had an experience with a therapist who upon hearing that my friends now avoid contact with me because I'm such a terrible company (with a few examples), asked this "bUt dId ThEy ExPlIcItLy SaY tHaT???". And the rest of the conversation was directed towards ensuring that I leave it convinced that I'm irrational in my thinking. It's especially baffling because under different circumstances if I wasn't able to take hints and social cues I'd probably be diagnosed with a personality disorder. If I remained convinced that there's no reason to suspect people are just tired of me despite clear signals, it could even make me look like a narcissist. Which, from what I've seen on channels like this one is basically a sentence of: "you're practically a lost cause, a monster, and even professionals despise you".
Sorely needed message for our whole society. Well done.
We have one party whipping up hate and fear, so they can rule us... so
Wish I could agree with you but…..the context is purely doctor-patient and doesn’t address what I’d hoped it would: a methodology for countering the strong beliefs of those in the anti-vaccine movement. I’ve long held the position that you can argue something on the basis of logic, but once belief enters the picture, it’s best to back off. I have *never* convinced anyone to go against their beliefs.
I watched this video on the basis of the title “How to Dispute Irrational Beliefs” thinking that finally someone had found a key, a way into their psyches that would allow us to come alongside them as friends, rather than bitter opponents. But as I said,; the context was wrong for that. This guy is talking about patients who come to him looking for help; most anti-vaccination folk are quite okay and don’t feel the need for help from anyone. So that’s one rung of the ladder now missing.
@@DougWolfe ah, you're one of the irrational ones who thinks everyone who doesn't comply is anti Vax.
You're one of the tribalists.
Your belief that all would be solved if everyone just did as you believe is itself a irrational belief. Your belief that the only thing holding everything back is the unvaccinated, is a irrational belief.
The only thing holding anything back is yourself and your kind, those who think in fear of nature as you do so desperate to attempt to wrestle it into submission.
The video is about you, those of you still to this day freaking out over a virus with a 99.9% survival rate, those of you who want the unvaccinated to be banned from buildings and the economy like in Australia.
You're suffering from mass psychosis and nothing can be done to retrieve you from your irrational beliefs.
I think it happens more often when you lose faith or hope in another person or society, or in life in general. We seek answers and jump to (preconceived) ideas based on our experiences and emotional well being at that time. We seek balance in a world that is far from balanced. When everything around us is irrational, even our rational thoughts and actions will seem out of place. In addition, we place far too much emphasis on what others think of us or how they view us, causing us to act not as how we would want to but as how we think others will want to see us act.
Thank you for underlining that irrational thoughts may not be wrong, they're just irrational.
I had this for years, interpreting information incorrectly. I called it a data input issue. The solution came from a book called “The Feeling Good Handbook”. It immediately solved my decades of depression.
I like the expression 'meaning vacuum.' I used to hear 'Nature abhors a vacuum!' but couldn't really find evidence, but I did find evidence in myself that confusion, uncertainty, doubt are difficult to accept.
Example of humans abhor a vacuum? Erm, that's why we have religion. Nature abhors a vaccum because of adaptability. Say for example, over 100k years, we lose oxygen in seawater so there's no oxygen: seacreatures are faced with two options - die or adapt. It's that simple. I would suggest that, exceptionally, humans have vivid imaginations. We can 'create' scenarios which aren't real and hypothesise (metaphysical thought). I'm not sure other creatures can do this and some might argue, not all humans have the capacity for metaphysics! 😉
Loved the beginning example! I think it’d calm down the story teller too! It’s such a negative feedback 🔁 loop for me…Irrational fear causes more fear & anxiety then I get a terrible headache, cry, shake, sweat…it’s usually just a story that I made up.
Wow, isn't it crazy sometimes what we humans put ourselves through, only to find out it was all a waste of effort? I'm sorry you experience this.
Its serendipity to run into this presentation while trying to write an opinion piece about climate change and the irrational beliefs over what to do about it and the lack of knowledge over what the proposed solutions would do
Thanks for posting - very helpful advice presented in a calm and logical way.
I often had "Customers" argue with me when I told them something they wanted was not feasible. These people generally get their information from others dumber than them. The "Customer" goes around until he finds someone that will agree with them and then in their mind it is a fact. I was not in business to lose money and showed those people the door. DO NOT WASTE TIME ON PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
Too often I've had "experts" tell me something is not feasible when I know for sure it is. There are a lot of dumb "experts" out there who get their information from other dumb "experts". I don't waste my time with them either.
Wow, it’s interesting reading both sides of one coin 😎 👌🏽
Example: Ignorance teaching ignorance....How tiring! Your right, send them happily on to anothe~~~
@@pschilling5424 Feasible and possible are two different words. I often had someone come in and say "So and So said he would do it but was backed up with work". Let me interpret that for you : "I don't want to get involved in a time and money losing job".
Are they prequalified? The example you give I think not. Your right, looks like you already knew that they were not serious buyers. If they valued the item to buy they would not be so tireson and little inform. I like your value of your time and money.
Thank you very much for doing this video, it helped me better understanding my depressed clients.
It's 2021 and we all know why we're here. Thanks Mark and _good luck everyone_ ! 🙋♂️ 🙏
Just found this and love it. Not rushing to conclusions but asking probing questions. Waiting until the mad settling. One is belief and one is knowledge. Thank you sir for your explanations. I am learning a lot
What a beautiful story
I had never heard it and such a great lesson.
Thank you
Great video. I understand it is geared towards counseling and psychology but I see great importance in also using it in every day relationships (as well as other professions, such as a criminal investigator).
An excellent post, thank you, Mark. I'm a doctorate holder and a university lecturer. I've worked in multiple fields: from education, leadership, to paramedics, amongst others. The most important lessons I have learned in my life and long career are: 1) be kind. 2) don't retaliate (unless there's an ethical issue). 3) don't bear a grudge. 4) Knowledge and educational fields should not exist in silos, but communicate with each other, across disciplines. Thanks, Mark.
Great tips. When the amygdala is firing with strong negative emotion due to trauma, depression, anxiety, etc,, we don’t have access to the frontal lobe (our rational brain). Our lids are flipped. The person is in a state of fear (fight, flight or freeze - also known as F-state) and the ego is rigidly trying to reman in control as a form of self protection.
Waiting and helping ourselves or the client feel safe (deep breathing, calming thoughts are two good techniques) can help get us back online.
If we start to have a trauma-informed lens and approach across contexts and disciplines, the mud might settle and we might get somewhere.
This reminds me of the distention in German between "kennen" which is to know generally and to be familiar with, as compared to "wissen" which is to know objectively and completely. By English only having one word, we allow ourselves to say we "know" things that we do not really "know".
I'm glad that we can move this into a "believe" vs "know" as a close parallel, and hopefully lead clients to understand that not all beliefs are concrete knowledge.
Interesting. The word 'kennen' does appear in traditional English as 'ken', as in 'do you ken', or, 'do you understand'. It carries a similar intonation.
Thank you Mark. I hope I can patiently wait an extra nanosecond - then dismiss the plethora of bizarre assertions I've been hearing since 2016. I recently catastrophised my partner's behaviour and ultimately it was a damp squib (whew.)
What exactly does that last bit mean?
I just clicked out of curiosity....and was immediately drawn into the story! Great, informative video!!
Very illuminating. I find asking questions works very well. Makes them think in a different way.
Mark... Thank you for all the help you give. Please do a video offering ways to fix not been triggered by control. Thanks
This has been tremendously helpful. I can see how this works at the level of the individual, but am wondering about whole groups holding irrational beliefs, locked into social media echo chambers in a kind of feeding-breeding frenzy, and closed to even the possibility of other voices?
If you remember Jonestown, you'll recall that before the mass suicide, family members went to Guyana and attempted to persuade their loved ones to leave. They were unsuccessful. The feedback loop in a group setting is very powerful.
@@Old_Hippie Yes, I do. That’s a useful comparison and the point about the power of feedback loops is particularly pertinent.
I wonder, even in a mental instition can more than two have common agreement? So, where is the irrational group?
@@pschilling5424 There was a study done in a mental institution in the 1950's about 3 men who all considered themselves to be Jesus. It's an article you can find in Slate called Jesus Jesus Jesus.
Maslow postulated that humans have a basic and powerful need to belong. It is part of our primal survival instinct. That is why we seek out like-minded folks.
A frighteningly accurate description of how I feel when people do not return my messages, ha ha. Thank you!
I recently learned about "Not Anticipating the Others Response" from another RUclips Video by a Lady who was writing a Paper about Men's Views and she realized she was not listening to them, rather she was assuming their responses. This became clear when she listened to the Recordings of her questions and the Men's answers were quite different from what she thought she heard.. I realized that I have often done the same and will try to limit that for the remainder of my days.
Love your metaphors. Are their any books that I could get with examples please. Thank you for all of your freebies which are so helpful plus the way you set out the training. It's so good being able to revisit as refreshers.
Mark has a book called New Ways of Seeing which is all about reframing through metaphor.
Extremely well presented, thank you. I've been having some challenges with clients who are very invested in their patterns. hmmm. This really set me on a better path.
this type of youtube video has the best content, really helping other human beings. thank you so much for this upload.
Amazing and reverent. For some reason, what you have said strikes me on the mark. This is something I needed to hear. Ty.
This applies to theist/atheist debates. But I have found that when a belief is faith based and emotional, most will fight even harder to hold their belief. They also get angry as it’s difficult for them to separate the discussion from an “attack” on the belief and a personal “attack” on them. Also, when childhood indoctrination has formed the belief, it makes it even harder to get them to see through their biases.
I have read that the longer one holds beliefs with no evidential support, the MORE one believes them compared to beliefs that pile up more and more evidential support over the years.
It's actually easier to deal with faith based beliefs, at least if you're Christian, because we've got this nice instruction book which we can reference.
@@elgringoec An ‘instruction book’ that can, and has been, interpreted many different ways. Whether salvation is eternal or can be lost, what parts works play in salvation, whether Christians should go to war or vote, the Trinity, etc., there are many things in the Bible that are interpreted different ways.
@@chrisbaier6252
Of course. Even IKEA instructions are misinterpreted by people. Although usually not willfully the way some do with the Bible. But we needn't rely on what we're told, we can read for ourselves. There's always somebody trying to play ya too. Sometimes I think of them as anti-Christs.
@@elgringoec Are you sure you've actually read the bible?
The problem I observe is the reluctance of people who hold irrational beliefs often don't wish to let them go.
Holding on to their point of view is of considerable importance to them. Their identity seems dependent on winning the idea at the expense of reasoning, logic and evidence to the contrary.
hippo potamus - What do you mean, “often”?
First time I've seen your channel. Terrific examples and greatly appreciated. Thanks!
This use case is a good example of how to help. I would like to expand on this with the following. Knowledge and truth does not depend on personal experience. The capacity to believe and the willingness to do so is also at play here. There can be an insurmountable amount of evidence that supports a fact. Even so someone can simply refuse to believe and look for alternate explanations because it does not fit a narrative they want to support. Communication of factual information and the reception of that information by an individual will only happen if someone is willing to find out the truth. Reasoning is required for this. If someone is not in a state of mind to be reasoned with, any attempts to provide information that does not fit there preconceived notions of the facts will ultimately fail. I agree that getting someone to "sit" down or in other words be calm can help, as you show in your story, but is only the beginning. Wisdom is required to proceed. Understanding the person's basis for their beliefs is needed, as you state, in order to show them you understand where they are coming from and the reasons they believe what they believe. You can then offer to show them your viewpoint while also asking them to be "fair".. Most everyone wants to be seen as being fair and that may help in getting them to listen. Still after all that, there is no guarantee that a meaningful exchange of ideas will ensue. Patience is very important here as well as being calm. Excited people only stir up excitement in others. These points can help in other discussions where differing points of view conflict in a discussion.
ty for the upload. In these times, as a Canadian with a lot of American friends, this is useful in educating my future communications with some of them, lol.
As an American I sympathize.
Projection is often the culprit when we negatively interpret the behaviour of others.
Probably one of the best videos I've seen this year.
You are such a wonderful resource. You help me with ideas for my clients often. And your insights are so helpful. Blessings to you.
I highly recommend a book called “liminal thinking” which examines beliefs and how to examine and change them..especially the ones that are not working for you but that you have built a self identification with..
Thanks for the recommendation, Ben Leon.
Thanks.
"Belief can easily masquerade as knowledge."
Wow, if ever a statement described the modern religious fanatic, that would be it.
Especially the Big Bang theory, where people believe that a bunch of stuff banged together in outer space and caused an extremely intelligent design .
@@nowandthennn The difference being science can show a series of events that demonstrate the theory. The idea that some mythical being lumped up some dirt, breathed on it, and it became the first man is beyond laughable in this day and age.
This seems valid for most interactions where gaps of meaning are the root issue. Another positive in clarifying assumptions and attributions can often lead to nurturingly address insecurities that spurn such filling gaps of meaning.
I'm not in your field, but this approach may become very useful in my personal life. It could help me be more patient and avoid making conflict worse when someone has an irrational belief about me. Thank you.
It was narrated from ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: “Do not think badly of a word uttered by your brother, when you can find a good interpretation for it.” end quote.
This is related to the principle of "charity in debate": work from the assumption someone says something (which you may disagree with) based on good intentions, rather than malign ones. Useful - but hard - to practice in online discussions!
That's educational Mark. I'm sure lots of humans react the way describe.
Does the same technique work for people that might be labelled as "medically deluded".
Great question! As in "medical diluted", do you mean those who are on psychiatric medicine? Or something else? Just curious.
Layperson here...I would think the same but someone delusional would need some more careful and professional interactions, as opposed to the casual conversational style of talk therapy.
They need to previously had a trust worthy expert calmly and thoughtfully befriend them and teach them (I know a lot of work), remind them that their OK. Then help them. If possible. If your a doctor, or nurse, refer them to another, a specialist?
Insightful message I can use to cope with a relative who has many irrational beliefs. Many thanks.
These are wonderfully helpful as my SO's sole and unwitting unlicensed behavioral therapist.
"Things aren't always as they seem; skim milk masquerades as cream."
I love G&S, too.
What would you suggest for a client with CPTSD who grew up with narcissistic family members who question (or deny) their reality. If this type of questioning triggers them what’s another way to work to dispel the delusions?
What's wrong with questioning one's reality?
@@mollykeane2571 I think I oversimplified it.. the question was really for me. I’m in counseling with CPTSD. My own circumstances are mostly family lying to me (I understand my case is probably extreme compared to most people.)
An example is- I found out my neck is seriously messed up and the chiropractor said one of my bones stopped growing from trauma when I was a kid. I texted and asked my mom what it could have been, she said I fell down the stairs at my aunts house in high school (I don’t think I did, I don’t remember it). My aunt said it didn’t happen.
It’s mind games I’ve had to deal with my whole life. I’m struggling with it when my counselor questions me, I’m starting to dislike her, even though I know she’s trying to gently lead me to my own answer, it feels like what my family does. Sorry for such a long response!
For better or worse, BELIEF is a core characteristic of human nature. It is definitely a double-edged sword. It creates consensus. For example, we agree on the meaning of words and that money is worth something. Belief in goodness can cause a group of people to spontaneously pitch in and rescue a child who has fallen into a well. But, it can also create a situation where a group of people form a mob and lynch somebody because they believe that’s the right thing to do. Being the emotional creatures we are, it takes a lot of training and self-discipline to learn to think things through. And that’s where the problems arise.
I am going to watch this every morning for a while.
Once upon a time a handsome prince asked a beautiful princess to marry him, she said no, and he lived happily ever after , The End.
An unrelated joke but I hope it gave you a laugh.
Yes...............Best in a long time.
Disclaimer: I know nothing.
The unspoken tip I keep from this is to tell them a story relative to their situation, but not too obvious so they could easily object it, using symbols and seemingly unrelated setups. And ask them about reasonable or unreasonable behaviours of the different characters involved. Because the other tips, I do daily, with very varying levels of success depending on my own conviction level (the more I am, the less effective the questions are, because people "feel" some sort of agression in my asking and are just brainlessly and instinctively reacting to it. Actually, this applies to storytelling as well, but I still feel I should experiment more in that direction.)
And remember: the objective is not to convince; it is rather to express one's opinion in a non-confronting way, and hopefully lead towards a healthy discussion on the matter using a less sensitive subject than the very personal (and hurtful) one at hand. Because there is what can be called "intuition", which belongs to irrational beliefs, but wich proves to be true in the end; and you don't want to get people to doubt all of their intuitions, because then life becomes really a burden. Sometimes, we don't have the time to gather knowledge before making a decision, and we need to act on the spot, without a second thought; that's when intuition comes in handy, because it lessens the chances of making a very bad decision. The only thing we want is to stop the negative effects of the irrational and negative beliefs leading to downward spirals of self-destructive (or socially antagonizing) thoughts. It might not be the beliefs themselves we want to question, but rather the state one is putting themself into because of them. Thinking negatively while staying neutral is totally healthy: In order to solve a problem, you have to first see and admit it, second, to not become obsessed by it, and then work on possible and reasonable solutions for them. So negative thinking is not bad in itself; it's the downward spiral caused by obsession with them which is the real problem.
I think; but I know nothing.
Very nice coming from a person that "knows nothing". Very insightful. The more you "learn" or "know" the more you see that the unknown is becoming bigger. So I prefer to trust people that don't know anything after learning a lot, than people that know it all and yet have so much more to develop... Which you can always see through how they live... are they handling their own life as they should or are they a complete mess in everything...
@@ravedisc The nature of the tree is revealed by its fruits.
I enjoy this video. I like how it avoids individual confrontation and so maintains repore.
I have to practice this on myself because I can sometimes slip into rushed judgements. It does definitely help to consider alternative explanations in situations where I presume to know what’s going on even though I’m short of the information required to actually know.
The work I did for many years required investigating, so I was forced to do my best to entertain all kinds of possibilities before settling on a ‘truth’, however qualified it might have been.
My takeaway is that this is a practice that I need to use every day, perhaps many times. And I have to let all sorts of things go unexplained. It’s not always satisfying in the moment but I end up farther ahead, particularly in relationships… of all sorts.
The individuals who need this advice will never admit it lol, they really like themselves.
I feel like I am surrounded by princess equivalents. And it is so difficult for me to stay calm in the middle of their screaming.
Excuse your self and go get th;em a drink? Take two drinks in case they throw it in your face, or against the wall, then you drink the other drink? (I'm trying to find some humor in this crazy fit) Don't grind your teeth over an irrational) Afterward, leave the room taking a long fast walk outdoors helps. This is when I used to walk around the block pretending to take care of some errand. Lookinng back, I would still have a drink, even of water. When home later, a long hot bath and find a Humorist on radio and laught it off.
I hope that you close a hpppy deal next day.
By the way, Corporations pay a lot of money to Humorist, such as the RUclips humorist Jeanne Robinson, to teach their employees how to find humor in everyday stress issues. She is a delight and you can get pleasent laughter watching her videos here. Hope you enjoy them?
I like these types of hypnotic presentations. Thank you.
This helped me understand myself and people in general. Thank you!!
Thank you, perhaps this will help me avoid losing my relationship with my anti-science/anti-vax/ conspiracy theory sister.
How do you know that she is anti science? Have any independent scientists confirmed that she is indeed “anti-science”?
@@PeterbFree ummm...I know she is anti-science because she is anti-science. Why would I need an independent scientist to confirm this? She is my sister and she tells me what she believes and what she believes contradicts all evidence which is a good sign that she is anti-science
@@cynthiasloan3867 How do you know that what she is contradicting is evidence? What exactly is it that she is contradicting? Where did it come from? How do you know that it is reliable or that it is even science?
Cynthia, maybe you guys could agree to avoid this topic(s)? *Sometimes* this works...
@@AlanCarson726 are you an epidemiologist? Have you studied viruses and pandemics your entire adult life? If not (my sister isn't either) then you are not in a position to evaluate the efficacy of this vaccine or any other. As for the reading and studying, sure she does that but she isn't actually using valid information so she cannot reach valid conclusions. If you don't understand this I'm thinking you also lack the education to properly evaluate scientific research also. Nothing shameful about not having studied something like epidemiology but in that case you should listen to the people who actually have studied it. That's it, if you can't wrap your mind around this then I think you are the one who has the problem here
Personal experience is very rarely "knowledge." Your entire video is about tempering someone's belief due to their own manufactured conclusions. Very "real" personal experiences are often incorrect- I'm thinking specifically of eye-witness testimony- but such fallibilty is true across a broad spectrum.
What you call belief- the Earth orbiting around the Sun- is knowledge. With the right amount of education and know-how (studying star charts, astronomy, trigonometry) a person can validate that claim for themselves and for others, repeatedly.
I will grant stubbing your toe is knowledge, but iy's a bad analogy for your argument.
I agree he is making an odd epistemological claim there. You don't have to agree that experience is the only route to knowledge. Especially the way he uses the idea of experience. As you point out you don't have to get in a spaceship and watch the earth go around the sun to figure this out is true. But he seems to leave out reason as a source of knowledge. That is something philosophers have been debating for a very long time. The very idea of how we know things. He blows past a lot of that maybe to keep it simple but that seems to be a disservice to people.
Thank you. You present a very useful perspective with tools I can use in many aspects of my life. Not in treatment. I'm not a psychologist.
It shares some commonality with a strategy I adopted for my own approach to experiencing life. I wonder if you would be interested in providing your thoughts on it, in general.
I consciously choose the meaning to attribute to my experiences. I select my perspective based on the following criteria:
1. Is it probable, or at least not improbable (does it align with what I can know)?
2. Does it promote a positive outlook on life? That is the expectation of possible positive outcomes and hope, faith in my fellow human beings, etc.
I've adopted this approach because I came to realize that our experience of reality is largely subjective, and outcomes, that is the life we create, are very much influenced by our expectations. I call this crafting pragmatic faith.
This is a simplified explanation. The exercise of attempting to describe it has been useful for me. It's worth some time for me to write it down in more detail and review it.
Either way, thanks for this video. It's a feast for thought.
Very helpful. Appreciated. Many thanks.
You should be declared as the official God for budding psychologists. Thank you so much for your guidance.
Shut... You believe he is, you don't know. (a God).
Unfortunately, this presentation confuses two types of therapy - that of Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy (REBT) and Cognitive Therapy (CT). Albert Ellis developed REBT and used the term 'irrational beliefs' to describe psychological disturbing beliefs. However, he regretted using this term since it implied that these beliefs were essentially irrational in a logical sense. However, the term 'irrational beliefs', as used in therapy, does not mean these beliefs are essentially irrational. Rather, it refers to beliefs that demand reality must absolutely be the way we want it to be ('people absolutely must reply to my emails quickly'). Indeed, believing in something which lacks empirical evidence ('I believe in a flat earth'), or cannot be empirically supported ('I believe in God'), are NOT necessarily 'irrational' beliefs in terms of REBT therapy (and would not be disputed in therapy). For instance, research suggests that religious beliefs can be psychologically helpful. Similarly, believing that the earth is flat is unlikely to require a visit to the hospital (although it may restrict our holiday destinations). Therapists are not trying to make people 'rational', they are helping individuals dispute particular types of beliefs ('musts') that are psychologically disturbing. Whilst it is tempting to believe that the world would be fine if everyone became rational and 'scientific', this is sadly not the case. Conflicts will still exist, and there will always be 'insufficient' evidence on which to base many of our decisions.
If I'm understanding what you're saying an irrational belief is not a belief that isn't likely to be true but rather a belief that is too rigid and immovable. Is this correct?
I get what you're saying. I'm curious if, imo, this video may not be using the therapy definition/application, but a more colloquial and practical definition/application. For example, instead of "irrational" meaning "psychological disturbing beliefs," but a more simplified "that may not be the only explanation." Imo, the simplified version: 1) still makes sense within the context of the video, 2) is a more colloquial and practical application, and 3) is keeping with what i think is the spirit of the video. I may be wrong; I have zero significant experience/knowledge of therapy and psychiatry. Do you think the simplified version works? What are your thoughts?
"Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence" is often cited in terms of belief. The problem is no one has ever been able to define, much less prove, what is "ordinary". If it's peace of mind and peace with ones neighbour, religious people may be more ordinary than their non-religious neighbours. A dysfunctional trait like paranoia may be an entirely appropriate response to bullying behaviour in the workplace, especially if accompanied by gaslighting. In such situations asking "why do you feel like that" is less useful than a good lawyer.
"Whilst it is tempting to believe that the world would be fine if everyone became rational and 'scientific', this is sadly not the case."
Actually, it WOULD make the world a much better place, and you can't state that it would not, because we've never tried it. Political policy is not evidence-driven, and neither is voting behaviour. Most people would make better decisions for both themselves, their community and the planet if their decisions were at least as aligned as they could be with the evidence available within the context of the decision. Yes, there are still unknowns without sufficient evidence, but to assert that due to not knowing everything we should ignore what we already do know - that is not rational ;)
@@PinataOblongata I disagree. We'd simply have materialist running the show. Rationality rarely creates art, music and falling in love is extremely irrational. We'd have ethics - which is an attempt to replace morality with a popularity contest - and fallacious ideas like reciprocal altruism. Giver utopias of all kinds a wide berth, they're always run by high functioning psychopaths.
Wise all the way thru. I can only hope everybody is watching this.
Sounds like the art of applying Hanlon’s Razor to deliberate on one’s or another’s reaction, then using subversion to disburse audience/client emotional energy long enough to allow other reasonable interpretations or trains of thought - and then allowing oneself or another the time and space to weigh different conclusions - ❤️ luvvit!
Does it work on the brainwashed?
Depends, how do you know you aren't brainwashed first?
Gotta '' unwash 'em '' first.
“If God listened to crows the whole earth would be filled with carrion.” - Greek proverb
I have to wonder which Greek god is being discussed here, as the Greeks were notably generally polytheistic. Though I suppose it could be a proverb from modern Greece?
Woodledude - It is a very old folk proverb, possibly with ancient antecedents, but this version is in common usage today.
Isn't it?
StochasticStoic - Isn’t it what?
@@dorianphilotheates3769 Filled with carrion, of course.
Those were excellent suggestions for disputing irrational beliefs.
"stir up the mud of our imagination" ... I'm stealing that one.
“Presented with the lack of an alternative, everyone becomes remarkably even-tempered...” - Henry Kissinger
Based Kissinger on the helicopter fallacy: "My evaluation is that you are a victim of all left-wing groups around the world and that your greatest sin was that you overthrew a government that was going Communist".
You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
So very true! It's like sending software code to a crashed computer. Won't do a thing...
How do u reason when u do science?
Excellent advice. Very easy to jump to the wrong conclusion. However the gut feeling can be accurate sometimes. ☺️
Thanks! This is applicable to supervisors when working with emotional employees.
Good post, but I was expecting advice on wacko god believers.
I was too.
It can work for zealots, and those believing in scientism alike.
@@sirellyn Which part of the scientific method do you find illogical?
@@G_Demolished I find scientism illogical. I find Karl Popper's analysis of the scientific method the start of everything rational.
I think it's interesting that this speaker assumes that an "irrational person" is a female and hence his use of pronouns. I blame Pythagorus.
Is that the only conclusion that you drew out of the whole video? Or did you unconsciously watch this with an already built in bias towards this man for being just a man? Just curious to know. But your comment comes off as a 3rd wave feminist who has an ax to grind and this is the video that triggered it. If I'm wrong then I apologize for my ignorance, but if I'm not then I would hope that you would acknowledge it. Stay safe and blessed.
We need to spread this content. It would help many people.
First step: Make sure you're not the irrational one. It would surprise many people how often this is a genuine concern.
Pathetic typical misogynistic storyline. Sad this guy can't give his message without using garbage tales.
So great! Thank you for this!
Coincidentally i just the other day heard a very similar Buddhist parable where a student fetching water for The Buddha had frustrating complications because of people upstream washing their laundry.
Very well said. Thank you for this.
A very useful approach when talking with someone religious.
Loved the story, thankyou.
Well said. Thank you.
Thank you very much for the useful information you share with us :)