I have been a fan of yours since I started looking into WNBA. I am a little disappointed with how you handled the Swoopes matter. Elle Duncan made same mistake taking Bout giving credit to Clark when she didn’t even listen to Swoopes pod. Queen of court takes topics and they each take sides. The cohost hit the benefits of Clark. Yet people have taken what she said in her review of Indiana that been making the rounds including on what you just discussed. I expect you to be informed on this to be able to lay context. Now we are saying Swoopes is hurt and neglect ALL OF HATE she has been receiving on this Clark topic. How is she supposed to feel when people are just dumping on her online from these Clark supporters for over year. She is a GOAT 🐐 in this game and it saddens me that people are framing this as bitter/hurt Swoopes. I like how you are both very balanced and really wish you had to listen to her pod and think you will see…..she has spoken very highly of Clark and her impact on the same podcast yet people take that ONE quote and ignore the others where she is giving Clark her flowers 🌺 Yet no one is posting those comments
Hey! This is very valuable critique of our discussion. We appreciate you listening and also taking the time to let us know how you are feeling. As you said, we try to be balanced, but admittedly don't always have the full context. The hate for Swoopes (online or elsewhere), has no place. We try not to get baited into unfair storylines and narratives, but sometimes the momentum of a decisive topic sneaks up on us. Thanks again for listening/commenting.
The problem of old players and fans feeling disrespected by new fans is not a WNBA-specific phenomenon. It happened when the NBA became popular with Magic, Bird and then Jordan. It also happened to a lesser degree with NWSL and women’s soccer. What is a WNBA-specific phenomenon is handing microphones to those disaffected players and fans that they then use to disrespect the new fans and players - call them unknowledgeable and upbraid them for liking that player when another player was better back in the day. It’s not CC or her fans fault that the WNBA lapsed in popularity after the late 90s / early 2000s. Of course they are going to act like she’s the best thing since sliced bread. That’s not a referendum on the league. That’s a statement of how much they love her. The WNBA old heads should have bitten their tongues and allowed the new fans to explore the league. They would have learned to love other current players, then they would have gone back and given players like Swoopes their flowers. But someone had to act as the introduction to the game - someone had to make them love it. When the first thing you tell them is that their intro player is not that good or nothing special, they are not going to be interested in what you say is good. Because it’s obvious to them you have different tastes. And the unknowledgeable claims are especially ridiculous for CC’s fans because a good chunk of them are NBA fans that are drawn to her style because it more closely resembles the NBA’s style. They know the game. They already think their version of the game is superior (correctly or not) and when you downplay the success CC will have or is having in the league, you just confirm all the prior biases they had against the women’s game. ETA - I’m not advocating biting tongues on the racism, sexism and homophobia fronts. But I think those play a greater role in the unconscious biases of her fans rather than the conscious biases. The outright racist part of her fan base is a very loud minority online - like everything else MAGA. More commonly you have people who didn’t pay attention to the league partly because it was largely Black and gay - and they aren’t exposed to or aren’t actively interested in Black and gay people. But you got to meet those people where they are. There’s not animus there - just ignorance.
Lot's of good points here. The new fan VS old fan theme is quite a complex one. We hesitate to tell new fans or old fans how they should interact with the league, but also acknowledge that the discourse is often fraught with name calling. Unfortunately, so much of "sports talk" is not as elequent as your comment. Thanks for listening!
I have been a fan of yours since I started looking into WNBA. I am a little disappointed with how you handled the Swoopes matter. Elle Duncan made same mistake taking Bout giving credit to Clark when she didn’t even listen to Swoopes pod. Queen of court takes topics and they each take sides. The cohost hit the benefits of Clark. Yet people have taken what she said in her review of Indiana that been making the rounds including on what you just discussed.
I expect you to be informed on this to be able to lay context. Now we are saying Swoopes is hurt and neglect ALL OF HATE she has been receiving on this Clark topic. How is she supposed to feel when people are just dumping on her online from these Clark supporters for over year.
She is a GOAT 🐐 in this game and it saddens me that people are framing this as bitter/hurt Swoopes.
I like how you are both very balanced and really wish you had to listen to her pod and think you will see…..she has spoken very highly of Clark and her impact on the same podcast yet people take that ONE quote and ignore the others where she is giving Clark her flowers 🌺
Yet no one is posting those comments
Hey!
This is very valuable critique of our discussion.
We appreciate you listening and also taking the time to let us know how you are feeling.
As you said, we try to be balanced, but admittedly don't always have the full context.
The hate for Swoopes (online or elsewhere), has no place.
We try not to get baited into unfair storylines and narratives, but sometimes the momentum of a decisive topic sneaks up on us.
Thanks again for listening/commenting.
The problem of old players and fans feeling disrespected by new fans is not a WNBA-specific phenomenon. It happened when the NBA became popular with Magic, Bird and then Jordan. It also happened to a lesser degree with NWSL and women’s soccer. What is a WNBA-specific phenomenon is handing microphones to those disaffected players and fans that they then use to disrespect the new fans and players - call them unknowledgeable and upbraid them for liking that player when another player was better back in the day.
It’s not CC or her fans fault that the WNBA lapsed in popularity after the late 90s / early 2000s. Of course they are going to act like she’s the best thing since sliced bread. That’s not a referendum on the league. That’s a statement of how much they love her. The WNBA old heads should have bitten their tongues and allowed the new fans to explore the league. They would have learned to love other current players, then they would have gone back and given players like Swoopes their flowers. But someone had to act as the introduction to the game - someone had to make them love it. When the first thing you tell them is that their intro player is not that good or nothing special, they are not going to be interested in what you say is good. Because it’s obvious to them you have different tastes.
And the unknowledgeable claims are especially ridiculous for CC’s fans because a good chunk of them are NBA fans that are drawn to her style because it more closely resembles the NBA’s style. They know the game. They already think their version of the game is superior (correctly or not) and when you downplay the success CC will have or is having in the league, you just confirm all the prior biases they had against the women’s game.
ETA - I’m not advocating biting tongues on the racism, sexism and homophobia fronts. But I think those play a greater role in the unconscious biases of her fans rather than the conscious biases. The outright racist part of her fan base is a very loud minority online - like everything else MAGA. More commonly you have people who didn’t pay attention to the league partly because it was largely Black and gay - and they aren’t exposed to or aren’t actively interested in Black and gay people. But you got to meet those people where they are. There’s not animus there - just ignorance.
Lot's of good points here.
The new fan VS old fan theme is quite a complex one.
We hesitate to tell new fans or old fans how they should interact with the league, but also acknowledge that the discourse is often fraught with name calling.
Unfortunately, so much of "sports talk" is not as elequent as your comment.
Thanks for listening!