Bad timing as LS just got a HUGE update. TLDR: - A feature to render fake frames at low resolution to increase base performance. - LSFG 1.1 removed, as 2.3 has been tested to surpass 1.1 in performance anyway.
@Taavett With a mix of medium textures and low settings, running the ingame performance FSR and using Frame Gen from Lossless Sclaing, it kept me around 60+ fps. I think if my CPU was a bit more modern (using Ryzen 7 1700) it could have easily been over 60fps a majority of the time. I wouldn't say it was an ideal experience, but was playable and if I had no choice but to play it that way, I'd still have fun in hunts
Oh that's good to hear. I tried in game fsr and fsr frame gen and it felt absolutely awful and fsr also looked absolutely terrible. Didn't think to try loseless scaling hopefully in the next demo
@mas0ny149 Something to keep in mind is they did say the FSR was better in more recent builds of Wilds so it may be fixed on release. Also frame gen uses more VRAM so you may need to lower textures and details to make it more playable on lower Memory GPUs
I refuse to use fake AI frames and pixels. i will never give in. For now on if I pay over $500 for a graphics card and over $400 for cpu. I expect playable 1440p modern games. If not I will just find another hobby or play older games. Devs and drivers need to optimize their products, I'm afraid this will allow them to be lazy. I'm all natural!
I mean we've had interpolation built into tvs for years. I've been wondering for nearly 10 years why PCs, which are thousands of times stronger than a TV processor, weren't doing it. Only about a year ago AMD even acknowledged they had developed it over 7 years ago, they just didn't release it.
@@Touma134 I mean, you _could_ turn your HDD/SSD into RAM for a while now. If you could create a NAS config and put it to cloud, you likely could mess around and technically download RAM.
In PS4 era we got 100% faster gpu in just 3 years from gtx760 to gtx1060 with 3 times more memory. Now rtx4060 is not even faster than PS5, while 1060 was much faster than PS4. RTX4070 is gtx1060 of our time, but with a 70 series name and the price.
You can't keep adding complex looking textures and lighting and think it's not going to put more load on your system. You can bypass the "devs" by just putting everything on ultra LOW settings.
@@AnANas00-x3p The input latency is really really small like like were talking about less than 10ms so basically 60fps with FG added on looks like 120fps but still feels like 60fps when it use to feel like it was 40fps.
2.12 Takes a small (but necessary) step further. Here is the gist from the developer: "Introduced a new "Resolution Scale" option for LSFG. This feature allows input frames to be processed at a reduced resolution while generating output at the original resolution. For example, when playing at 1440p, setting the scale to 50% enables LSFG to generate 1440p output from a 720p input. This provides a performance boost with only a minor quality trade-off (depending on the game). Note that this is not related to image scaling; rather, it reduces the amount of information available to LSFG for motion estimation." Also, if you're on Windows 24H2, it is now recommended for users to use "WGC" instead of "DXGI" now. This is because "Microsoft changed how the Desktop Duplication API (DXGI) functions, making it heavily reliant on MPO (Multiplane Overlay) support. Without MPO, DXGI cannot reliably distinguish between updates from game window and the LS window when both are displayed on the same monitor. This prevents it from capturing only new frames, thereby breaking the existing framepacing algorithm." Your experience may vary if your system has "MPO" enabled.
@@sm13753 MPO has been a part of Windows drivers since Windows 8.1. It is enabled by default and can only be disabled using registry tweaks. Basically, if you don't know about it, you don't need to worry about it.
@@Crazzzycarrot-qo5wr It add almost no input delay now it's so small now it's entirely unnoticeable even on mouse basically 60fps feels exactly how 60fps should feel instead of it feeling like it was 40fps back then it's that good now.
Afmf2 doesnt turn itself off if u change the search mode to 'high'. Afmf 2 is the best in quality and latency between fsr, lossless scaling. Select searchmode 'high' and Quality mode.
AFMF 2 has horibble UI ghosting and can't differentiate between shadows, objects and character models. LSFG has absolutely better quality than FMF and even search mode high, it can turn off. Unlikely to turn of but can. Latency might be slightly better than LS but there's no other advantage to FMF.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat no it doesnt. Afmf2 has zero ghosting if yourbase fps is above 60fps and select quality mode. Afmf2 is the best at both quality and latency.
Lossless scaling works with dual GPUs, so if you have a configuration that supports the second GPU, you could buy something like a 5500 XT run the scaling off of that card. You need a card at least as powerful as the 6600 XT to comfortably do 4K scaling, but it removes the performance hit that you get from activating the frame generation. It is also much more difficult to run on Nvidia cards, and you'll find better results on low end AMD cards, even compared to higher-end Nvidia cards As for cards capping out without setting VSync on, there is a limit to how many frames a card can push depending on how intense the scenario is.
I do the same, with my $220 RTX 3060ti as the main GPU and a $36 RX 5600XT as the secondary GPU. Not the best combination, but it works with most games. Definitely better performance than just using the 3060ti or using the iGPU for LS. Note: cap your frames using the games limiter or with Rivatuner. The performance will be smoother.
if graphics is too hard for the gpu, just lower the settings and you could get enough fps. But the CPU might also put a hard cap in heavy NPC or action scenarios and that's when lsfg is gold!
Brother there is a bot comment on top of all the comments, try keeping your community safe from these scams. Edit: I think he removed the comment, good on him!
Almost everytime I have tried lossless scaling there have been visual artifacts usually my character flickering invisible. So really it isn't lossless , when my characters losing his head haha
You can try using LSFG 1.1 instead of LSFG 2.3 it has less artifact from my experience but unfortunately now you have to choose 2.11 version from the beta section because LSFG 1.1 is reomved in 2.12.
One of the most useful programs ever. I use it with Elden ring to hit 120 fps while still running Easy Anti Cheat. Also can be used with emulators with games that have a 30 fps cap.
Hi Vex, Thanks so much for this review - great job as always! Just a quick note: the framerate is capped because setting "Max latency" to 1 limits it to the monitor's refresh rate. It needs to be at least 2, preferably 3 (with 3 being the recommended setting for AMD GPUs), or you can use Sync mode OFF (Tearing) with VRR to avoid visible tearing. Also, check out version 2.12 - it includes a "Resolution scaling" option that can really help lower-end GPUs.
The framerate could be capped in the game settings, which is a good idea if you are running frame gen, which is why I am baffled that neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to cap the framerate or use a defined scaling factor. Running unlocked on a low spec machine is bad enough. Throw frame gen in the mix and you're in for a stutterfest.
I have been using lossless scaling for a while now, and it's a lifesaver on my 1660 ti optiplex build. Its crazy getting 120fps on a 5 year old mid range budget gpu with a 7 year old cpu.
What is crazy is playing Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a 12 year old GTX 670 and 10 year old i7 and being just as competitive in ranked racing as you are on a modern system capable of running the game at 1440p at high refresh rate with native rendering.
years dont matter dude, xeon e5 ivy-bridge is exactly same perfomance of i7 from 12-14th gens and xeon phi are equivalent to 13-14th gen i9 or xeon 1st gen videos are already out here in youtube seach it out u will see.But yeah if u bought an i3 7 years ago thats a different story
im gonna type this just in case some one has a problem with the fps. you can only use one frame gen method meaning you either chosse the in game frame gen or lossles scaling because if you use both lossles will have to work 2 times harder to give you more frames because it has to add more frames to the game and than do it again for the frame gen leading it to be lower than it should be which makes your computer run the game slower than it would using only one method for the frame gen.
The issue with latency is not just the added latency of the tool, but the inherently high latency of low base FPS. Base 30 fps is going to feel unresponsive no matter how good the frame generation is, but going from 60 to 120 feels okay.
@@EatsTofu X2 is like the best out of X3 and X4 in terms of fidelity so i'd say no, it's very good especially on quality mode for me, i think the minimum requirement for X2 is 30 fps, 45 fps for X3 and 60 fps for X4
Great video. I use LS a lot with my laptop/eGPU. Here are some things others may want to consider. - Make sure your GPU has headroom for LS processing, drop the settings to get this. - You can run the game in lower resolution and upscale it with LS as well, or run game with FSR and then use LS - You can set LS to use a different GPU, like your iGPU. This is useful if using an eGPU on a laptop and using the laptop screen. Though you need a modern iGPU. - Lock the games FPS at a level where it is constant, not fluctuating. A fraction of your monitor frequency is good as the FG will match the monitor. This make the LS FG also smooth. More on laptop+eGPU+LS - Use eGPU to render game in 1200p (for Thunderbolt connection) and set LS to upscale and frame generate on the iGPU. - I do this with a 12500H laptop and a GPD G1 eGpu via Thunderbolt.
Yes, you can technically do these things but some of your suggestions fall into the category of 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'. Using both FSR and LS1 together will make it look like someone smeared vaseline all over your monitor. And 4x frame gen is there, but you shouldn't use it. I'm going to be trying out LSFG on my budget gaming laptop to see how it does running on the iGPU. I only have a 1650Ti and it struggles a bit with TOW Spacer's Choice. But, based on the experience I had testing LS on a Quadro K2200, I don't think UHD 630 is going to cut it. Way less powerful than your Iris Xe iGPU. Could probably handle scaling but not frame gen. Even small model AI inference requires more grunt than a crappy old intel iGPU can handle. Scaling is easier because it is far simpler interpolation. My first digital camera, more than 20 years ago, could upscale images. If you're old enough, you might be aware of the '90s action movie trope of 'enhancing' an image after zooming in. In one comedy, they quipped, 'sorry, it doesn't work that way'. Now I can do that on my smartphone. Still takes like 15 seconds, even with a NPU. Without a NPU, though, it takes infinite seconds because a smartphone iGPU isn't anywhere near being able to run the algorithm in a useful time frame. That's basically what you are doing with frame gen - inferring the value of a pixel based on the value preceding it and following it, which isn't much different than enhancing an image. You are inferring data you don't have from the data you do have. And you are doing it in realtime, with brute force, on a GPU that was never really intended to run ML algorithms. Well, I am. At the end of the day, it is still just a parlor trick. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
@Lurch-Bot I suspect your results will be poor as you need a more modern igpu. But it would be interesting to see. For me I can play games like starfield and cyberpunk this way. In part it is to get over the thunderbolt constraints and with oculink or TB 5 I expect you would get better results just using the egpu. I mostly use the older FG or the new on performance.
Still trying to figure out how to make this work reliably. Need to take a deep dive into settings because I'm sure that's part of it. a recent test with YT didn't scale right. It also doesn't seem to do anything with popular subscription streaming services, probably due to HDCP. I would imagine if I were just trying to watch a ripped video file on VLC, it would probably work fine.
The thing that I really like is that it works as a separate window and can be captured separately. I did that to stream Wind Waker, which is natively 30fps. OBS was capturing the clean, original footage at 30 FPS, and I was watching LS at 60 FPS. I didn't get motion sickness, and the viewers didn't see the artifacting.
Bought it. Tried it. And i am truly amazed by this small program. I think its a must have nowadays (if you have a dedicated GPU, i womt explain here why but you still need a dedicated GPU).
Not really today in this generation. Pretty much anything you buy right now can at least hit 30fps right out of the box. The only thing that's really important is a high refresh monitor. So for example, if your monitor can do 1080p with "120HZ". And your main game is only 30fps. Times that by 4 that's 120FPS. Those new mini PC's are good enough for this program. The high refresh monitor is the most important thing for this program. If your monitor only has 60HZ, there's no real benefit using Lossless Scaling.
There is a certain amount of overhead. I got surprising results with a GTX 670 but when trying it with a Quadro K2200 (basically a 4GB 750Ti), it was pointless to use frame gen because it cut into the GPU rasterization performance too much. You could simply run Cyberpunk at 1080p lowest settings with a solid, capped 30fps with FSR or you could dial the cap down to 20 and get it running very poorly at 60fps with 3x frame gen, with a lot of latency and looking kinda muddy.
Thanks Vex! I purchased this a while back but didn't really get much out of it - but tried the latest version on my ARC A750 and Star Citizen has gone from 30-40FPS 2k resolution everything on max up to 140! .... and it still looks amazing!! WOO WOO ( Verified FPS with the XBox FPS counter as well )
Just when I thought this app couldn't get any better. The FG resolution scale option is genius. LSFG on a 4K screen used to be really expensive on the GPU so you had to change your whole screen's resolution depending on the game at was annoying, but this solves the issue!
I think the best way to test this, is on older GPUs, so we can actually see some fps going up... Because going up of 60 fps is a plus, but 60 is the lowest target
It would be cool to see a power usage analysis, like just set your gpu to lock at 30 with rivo tuner and then use this to upscale to 120 FPS and then run it basically at 120 to see what your equivalent usage is. I know it’s not all the same, but in talking cost to upgrade this seems like a good comparison. Not only do you not have the new gpu cost but you also don’t have the higher power usage to get to that rather fps. Thinking like you have a 3060 with lossless scaling Vs a 4080 or something to reach rather high FPS.
yea im gonna just use this on my gtx 1080 / rtx 3090 / z1 extreme id already decided i wouldnt upgrade until rtx 6000 series anyway but this really took it over the top..every upgrade is for frame rates resolutions been ok for a while..but frame interpolation is a miracle
9:00 U can use it to your browser to watch anime 48fps. U can also select the main GPU for rendering and the other GPU for scaling.. I dont have second GPU to tried that, but I've tried it to my IGPU as scaler. And it is quite good
I have been using lossless scaling for a solid minute now. It clearly won't work for some games but for games that are framerate capped or super cpu bound. Fps capped games (terraria, fallout4/Vegas) and cpu limited such as gta5 and helldivers2. Just make sure you have extra gpu usage to spare! This software eats away at my 4080 like crazy
Haven't played a FO game since I got LS but I may be playing Vegas again soon and will try LSFG. The problem is that, with the Creation engine, load times are tied to framerate. And load times get excessively long in FO4, which is why I will just uncap it and accept the broken ragdoll effects and speech. You run into similar issues with Starfield and it is no accident that the 4090 can manage just over 100fps at 4k Ultra in Starfield. Just under the point where ragdoll physics break. That also means they basically tuned the game to run worse than it has to on lower spec GPUs. As for LS 'eating your 4080 like crazy', that's just absurd. Earlier this year, I played Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a GTX 670. LS has the most efficient frame gen algorithm. AMD and Nvidia have zero motivation to optimize their frame gen solutions. Lossless Scaling devs don't have any other motivation but to make their algorithm efficient.
This tool is incredible. I don't know how more people aren't talking about it. I've used it in Crysis 2 Remastered to go from an unstable 100 fps to a stable 140 fps. So I'm running this game at a stable 140 fps at max settings (except for Ray Tracing, which is at High) in 1440p on an RTX 3080 10GB (granted DLSS Quality is on, but it still looks really good). I'm using a Ryzen 5950x, if that matters. Similarly, I've used it in Ghost Recon Breakpoint to go from around 100 fps to 130 fps. In both cases, I have not perceived any loss in image quality or any noticeable artefacts. I don't get how this isn't bigger news in the gaming community.
Another thing I've found with lossless scaling(LS) is it really depends on the specific game you are running, some games respond very well and others not so much. Space Marine II responds extremely well, I've been running it in x2 mode with my frames capped at 80(160 w/ LS) and it's awesome. Remnant II however looks better with AMD's frame-gen as opposed to LS, more visual artifacting in this case. Windwaker HD(CEMU) at x3(30 to 90) is butter, with minor visual artifacting(totally worth it here though imo, even over x2 mode). Deadpool(pcsx3) at x2(30 to 60) benefits from smoothness, but has visual artifacting like Vex was showing with Black Myth Wukong at x4 mode, character model Phasing in and out of existence that sort of thing. Just a few of my experiences, it's a wonderful program and I recommend it!
Yes, YMMV. It doesn't work with literally EVERYTHING. Doesn't work on LA Noire, not that I need it to, lol. Also, while the instructions say you must run the game in fullscreen mode, Cyberpunk only worked with LS using windowed borderless. I have used LSFG with a 12 year old GTX 670. That was mind blowing. 2x scale and 2x FG allowed me to play Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60. It wasn't perfect - menus would get kinda blurry when moving quickly through them and the moving map was a little shaky. Still usable though. Still was able to do ranked racing as well as I would on a much better system.
Hey! What kinda games could I try LS on CEMU? The ones i have actually have a 60fps mod. I get that if you have a high refresh rate monitor you could benefit anyways but mine is 75hz XD Edit: if it enhances smoothness I'll use it regardless the 60 fps mods
Rivatuner Nvidia reflex + lsfg has been my way to go for all games for 2 months now its way way better than normal fg... Being able to play every single story game on 180 fps with very good latency have been a dream come true to me
@@juanospina3690Its really simple as it is I just use Nvidia reflex through rivatuner and then Ensure my games have at least a 45-60 base frames and turn on x3 lossless scaling with turning off vsync option in lsfg that's it
This is a game changer for broken games like Wild Hearts. Even though Im running the game at 60fps by the counter, it feels like its running at 20. With lossless scaling I run that game at 100fps caped at 50, to achieve perfect frame times. Finally I can play it
Bought this a few months ago, can't ever play games like Minecraft without it, removed my need for always wanting to upgrade my system, Highly recommended
There is an app called something like borderless minecraft and it works super well with LS. It can be downloaded from github. I use it every time i play.
One thing I'd like to add is, while in game frame caps can be fine, I prefer/recommend capping frames at the driver level. So using Nvidia control panel for team green cards or Radeon chill(in AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition) for team red. I've found that in game frame caps often will allow the game to occasionally go above the cap in some situations(sometimes frequently), which can affect smoothness with lossless scaling, the built in options by Nvidia and AMD have always hard capped at what I've set and keep the game locked down.
If you do x2 mode just cap your frame rate to half your monitor's refresh rate to avoid microstuttering or frame skipping. x3 = 1/3 and x4 = 1/4 of your monitor's refresh rate. I use rivatuner to cap my frames btw and it works great. I you have old hardware like rx 580 or gtx 1060 use performance mode it uses less resources in exchange for very little image quality impact but still worth it.
@@__-fi6xg I'm pretty sure that not being able to play all games on Ultra settings doesn't make a card low-end. Maybe in terms of cards you can buy brand new it's on the lower end, but it's definitely not low-end in terms of cards that are actually in use right now.
It shows before and after fps as the same. Also according to afterburner+rtss overlay it halves the actual fps when enabled. And my experience confirms that because playable games becomes unplayable when i enabled it. And my settings are exactly as yours. Game is running at borderless window mode etc. Gpu is rtx4090 (laptop).
40fps is very playable if your frame times are even and not erratically variable. What you need to realize with Lossless Scaling is the lower your fps is below 60, the more unstable the image will be when utilizing LSF 2.3 Frame Generation.
40fps feels like crap. 60 is my absolute minimum for Story games and 120 to 240 is how I like to play fps games. Once used to this, going back is torture.
I'm an indie game lover, and some of them don't support over 60fps. To name a few: Celeste, Noita and Nova Drift. LS does an amazing job with them! I just have to make sure to go to the nvidia control panel, and set their low latency mode to ultra. It also works wonders with gameplay videos on youtube (maybe even twitch too), I think you didn't mention that. LS can work with any window, not just games.
I use lossless all the time with rtx 4070 in games where the pc port is bad like gta 4 and assassin creed black flag These games with frame generation becomes a whole different games especially in ac black flag case That game is so so beautiful but locked in performance But lossless scaling gave a new life to the game so yeahh Totally recommended if your gpu is powerful enough to render lossless fg properly...
I would like to mention that there is an optimal setting for Nvidia and AMD GPUs, which is different lower down in the graphical settings. In lossless, the dev stated, “The new "Max Frame Latency" option acts as a balance between latency and performance. There is no best value, as all systems are different. Most likely, the optimal value will be 1 for Nvidia GPUs and 3 for AMD. It should be at least 2 (3 for AMD) if you want LS to be able to render over refresh rate.” In one of their updates to the app, this I believe really helps with the ghosting issue you were seeing with the AMD card.
Best thing is: you can use the framegen in any video. RUclips, vlc, animes...and it's soo much better than the old stuttery 24/30 fps. You can use it with emulators too. Such a gem.
It's actually perfect for watching RUclips videos, especially 60 fps gameplay videos. Note: if Lossless Scaling is making your game run at 2 fps, try running Lossless Scaling directly from the .exe file and don't launch it using Steam.
4x frame gen sounds great but, no matter the algorithm, you're going to have some noticeable input lag. LS works best when you limit it to no more than 2x frame gen and 2x scaling. I played Forza Horizon 4 for over 100 hours at 1440p60 on a GTX 670, using 2x LS1 scaling and 2x LSFG 2.1 frame gen. I was just as competitive in ranked racing because the latency increase was basically imperceptible. There were a couple of very minor graphical glitches - the moving map was a little shaky and you would get some distortion when moving quickly through menus. Otherwise, it was a solid result. The best thing about Lossless Scaling frame gen is the fact you can dial in a locked framerate, which you cannot do with either AFMF or DLSS 3. This causes the system to always run at 100% so that any time you get a momentary increase in resource demand, you get a stutter. In general, this is why running an unlocked framerate is always a bad idea, especially on a competitive title. Another thing people don't talk about with Lossless Scaling is the fact that you can use a second, weaker GPU to handle the overhead from the app, leaving your main GPU to put all its effort into rasterization. Neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to do this and I don't think people realize how much overhead there is with scaling and frame gen. This is why I just laugh when people talk about the 4060 and frame gen. 2x, 3x, 4x from 20fps at 1080p Ultra with RT in Cyberpunk is still going to run and look like crap.
05:29 this does NOT happens to me. and i know that amd fixed this issue, are you on a lower amd driver by chance? im being serious AFMF is actually quite good, its good to know that i can enable FG from my own driver and know that its a good implementation tho.
I just gave this a try. I started playing Assassin's Creed (IV 2013) Black Flags this month and it only goes up to 60 fps. Having been used to above 100 fps playing at 60 is painful. It is hard playing beyond a couple hours. This really helps. Though it is not as good as a true 120 fps it is definitely better than playing without it.
I think X2 is the best option for people who have setups which can run latest games at around 35 fps at low-medium settings and can use FG to get a pretty solid 60. The other modes are good for people with stronger setups who already get 60+ fps and want to x3 it or x4
I finished wukong using Lossless On a Rx 6600 XT and let me tell you if you're not a person to neat pick things its so much better and makes the game experience so much smoother and i didn't even feel it being unresponsive at all
@@edalecu I could say the same. You dont know how to use afmf2 properly. Btw how I cant use it properly? It should go like click scale and done? And yet, still bad image quality without using the upscaling part and massive drops. So....
Why in my AMD Vega 7 integrated gpu, lossless scaling only reduces fps instead of increasing it and theres some water like effects on the sides of the screen
psst, hey yall, just a reminder that you dont NEED to use lossless scaling for gaming only, you can literally enable it on like a movie or something and have it at 240fps, im watching arcane with lossless scaling on and its amazing!
Depends on the settings you use, I did feel input lag on 4x, games were running way smoother but moving camera around felt about half a second slower, would not recommend 4x for shooters, great for non competitive games tho, survival games n stuff. Also love 4x frame generation for anime.
@nortonlucas , yeah I was going to use this on single player Games and No Man's Sky because I have like 20 mods lol. But thanks for the insight. I appreciate it.
In AFMF2 I can set it to work always on even when moving camera so fast , its two options that are under it , search mode and performance mode , put them on high and performance mode and FG will always work
Yeah, I tested this in helldivers 2. I have my game capped at 72 fps in adrenalin and used afmf 2, but I can't feel the 144fps at all. When I used this software, I feel the 144 fps now.
This tool does not seem to exist in the german Steam Store. Anyone have any idea, whats going on there? - When I wonna buy it, it says: Not available in your country. wth ?????
@@GustaviustwinkelberryThe problem is, it almost halves my base FPS, then it quadruples that, so in reality it only doubles it, and even then it doesn't reach 170hz...
Been using it for a few months, it’s fking amazing! I even use it for movies and anime. I found the best way to use it is to lock FPS to 60 then activate LS.
Been using it for RUclips videos a few days after it released, It's been my goat even for mihoyo games that have a sad 60fps lock, this program is consistantly running and even auto starts in my pc, I never have it off PS. Run the game wi down and activate the program, it will scale it to full screen or stretch it to fix your display within the settings, so even if the game goes smaller on your screen, LossLess Scaling will scale it to full screen
I use it for GZ Doom games, and for Switch Emulation. Specifically GREAT for Zelda ToTK used with the 60 fps mod. Also great for games you add a lot of mods to, like Cyberpunk, so if you add a bunch of stuff that starts hurting your FPS, use this to bump it back up. I find it looks better in Cyberpunk compared to the FSR framegen mod.
My question is, so I have this software in steam how do I run it with other games when I click play on it and then hit play on something else it turns off. Any help would be awesome!
i have a meaty PC but i still used to lose frames in Guildwars 2 big group content, i've started capping my FPS to 60 and running lossless scaler whenever i play and now not only can i run the big group content with buttery smooth FPS, but my pc is also way quieter when i'm not in the big group content because my fps is capped at "60" (120 thanks to Lossless Scaler) instead of unlimited which i used to have it set too. :D so its a win win!
@@yarincool1237 there is something wrong there. @80fps+ base i'm ok with the input lag when I add 2x FG. At 120 FPS base it should be much better. Just a little heads-up for you: you should limit the overall fps a little lower than your monitor refresh, else you could get small stutters. When I need to use LSFG, I limit my base fps to 1/2 -3fps of my screen refresh rate (79FPS). So I get 158FPS on my 165Hz monitor and it's perfectly smooth and responsive. I also use G-SYNC ON+VSYNC ON and Low Latency mode ON/ULTRA from the nvapp.
Good content, I think that developers are throwing games with high standards regardless of what the user has to play it, Lossless scaling has proven that if you want you can improve performance and you don't even need an RTX. I think there is a reason why games run at 30FPS and at most 60FPS is that they are aimed at consoles. And regarding size, they don't need to put them on a DVD, so they simply leave much of the game uncompressed. I don't think game optimization will improve on the part of developers, but hopefully third-party apps achieve better optimization and force them to improve their software.
#Vex can I use loseless on my nvidia GTX 1050 TI ?or what card do you recomend to buy for play Path of exile 2 i have i7 8700 3.70ghz cpu, its a bad cpu also?
IF YOU HAVE LOW FPS DO NOT USE IT!!! IT WONT WORK THE SAME WAY FOR YOU!!! Why? Well lets say you have 15fps, you have 66ms latency, using the tool will drop it to 10fps, about 100ms, and thats your latency, even if you get 4x and get 40fps you wont have latency of 25ms, but 100ms, you will clearly see that its fixable if you bump the fps more before generation, game will look like dogshit with fsr scaling)
If you have two GPUs you can make one of them do the FG computational work so the other won't take a hit in the base FPS. The secondary GPU has to be decent though
I can confirm, Loseeless Scaling really works, it takes a bit FPS from your game in order to run, but it doubles the FPS afterwards. I use this in Cyberpunk, from like 48 FPS without DLSS it goes to 80+. It doesnt work on fullscreen tho and there is a latency, bigger than Framegen.
All these people saying it doesn't work in fullscreen but I used LS to play Forza Horizon 4 for 100 hours in fullscreen mode. I think the important thing to remember with LS is YMMV. Doesn't always work like they say it does and won't work with literally every game. The second game I tried LS with was LA Noire and it didn't work in fullscreen or windowed or borderless mode. But I also played FH4 at 1440p60 on a GTX 670. I don't think that would have worked with AFMF, even if the game supported it. AMD and Nvidia have zero motivation to make their frame gen solutions more efficient and my experience (rather limited due to poor support) with AFMF is that LSFG is superior.
You should've waited just a bit before recording this video! Yesterday lossless scaling released an update, and it's not a tiny one.... And as for afmf now the frame gen should work much better, if you select high search mode and quality preset on afmf (latest drivers at this time). but i only know because of a friend of mine that has a 7900xt, so don't blame me if I'm wrong. Still a nice video, I always enjoy watching you, but inform yourself better before! Keep it up!
The only bad thing is that increases the input lag significantly. The frames it generates are not "playable" frames, so you will notice more input lag, specially in FPS games. However it's an awesome tool that you can use to play videogames, watch videos and movies. Yes you can increase FPS for movies or series, and it works.
I've read this is possible to use on integrated graphics. I'm trying to make Valheim run nicely on a pretty new laptop (solid CPU and 32GB ram) but with integrated (Intel Iris Graphics). Regardless of what settings I play around with it seems to want to sit at 20-25FPS, which is stuttery enough to bother me.
another thing to mention that alot of pc games with a good amount of traction have mods on nexus mods that optimize the game for performance while also keeping most of your settings the same, for example cyberpunk2077 has like 20+ mods i can think of that optimize game settings and the game itself so it doesnt waste vram
bought it... tried it in stalker 2 it does a pretty good job better than FSR, i dont have a 4000 series so i cant speak to Nvidias frame gen, but compared to fsr it "feels" better HOWEVER you will notice slight bluring around your hands and weapons sometimes.
This is the more most ultimatist guide to Lossless Scaling now :)
Flexispot's Black Friday sale is on! Check it out!: bit.ly/4fkKR72
Does it work with emulation?
@@markdove5930 It works for almost every program that displays pixels.
@@markdove5930 From what I've heard, yes
He said on 11 min into video yeah it is working fr them....@@markdove5930
I couldnt find a good manual unfortunately, so have to depend on channels like yours for further explaining on what each buttons do.
ONE step closer to downloading more Ram
At this rate I won't be surprised if it actually happens.
Yawn
I downloaded ram from a bbs in like 1991. It was a script that I put in my autorxec.bat file that gave programs access to extended memory in DOS 🧑🦳
i only have 8gb of ram, i need this to happen
ironically we now have infinite ram, vram is the problem.
Gpu aint bad. Game optimization is
Bingo
Wukong is the better optimized one, talk about Alan wake 2, starfield, last of us, these games are trash in terms of optimization.
@@megurinemiku8201Alan wake 2 is good just not good for anything below 20 series
Yeahhh this software basically beat most driver bassed stuff and its great. I use it in demanding or built like crap games
No it's not @@megurinemiku8201
Bad timing as LS just got a HUGE update.
TLDR:
- A feature to render fake frames at low resolution to increase base performance.
- LSFG 1.1 removed, as 2.3 has been tested to surpass 1.1 in performance anyway.
May i ask what is LS ?
@@tech.curiositylossless scaling... The software that is used in the video.
There's no LSFG 2.4 lmao it's still 2.3, only resolution scaler is new
FG 2.4 doesnt exist yet, its still 2.3
Wait, FG is v2.4 now? I just updated LS to v2.12 and it's still 2.3?
Lossless Scaling made the Monster Hunter Wilds beta actually tolerable to play on my RTX 2060. Love it!
Wow how well does it run?😅
@Taavett With a mix of medium textures and low settings, running the ingame performance FSR and using Frame Gen from Lossless Sclaing, it kept me around 60+ fps. I think if my CPU was a bit more modern (using Ryzen 7 1700) it could have easily been over 60fps a majority of the time. I wouldn't say it was an ideal experience, but was playable and if I had no choice but to play it that way, I'd still have fun in hunts
@AFarCryAway Oh thank you! ❤️
Oh that's good to hear. I tried in game fsr and fsr frame gen and it felt absolutely awful and fsr also looked absolutely terrible. Didn't think to try loseless scaling hopefully in the next demo
@mas0ny149 Something to keep in mind is they did say the FSR was better in more recent builds of Wilds so it may be fixed on release. Also frame gen uses more VRAM so you may need to lower textures and details to make it more playable on lower Memory GPUs
Who would guess we would live through a time where you can just download more FPS lol
I refuse to use fake AI frames and pixels. i will never give in. For now on if I pay over $500 for a graphics card and over $400 for cpu. I expect playable 1440p modern games. If not I will just find another hobby or play older games. Devs and drivers need to optimize their products, I'm afraid this will allow them to be lazy. I'm all natural!
Still no real free ram to download. Shows you never know what life throws at you.
I mean we've had interpolation built into tvs for years. I've been wondering for nearly 10 years why PCs, which are thousands of times stronger than a TV processor, weren't doing it.
Only about a year ago AMD even acknowledged they had developed it over 7 years ago, they just didn't release it.
Dude u can get it for free i didnt pay for lossles scaling lol i used it to play bloodborne horribly optimized rn@CombatMedic1O
@@Touma134 I mean, you _could_ turn your HDD/SSD into RAM for a while now. If you could create a NAS config and put it to cloud, you likely could mess around and technically download RAM.
Devs are bad not gpus
Owners and share holders that only care about profit and push devs to release unfinished games that are bad for devs which is bad for GPUs
Yep all these tools and they aint utilizing let alone optimizing their games and said tools nowadays
In PS4 era we got 100% faster gpu in just 3 years from gtx760 to gtx1060 with 3 times more memory. Now rtx4060 is not even faster than PS5, while 1060 was much faster than PS4. RTX4070 is gtx1060 of our time, but with a 70 series name and the price.
You can't keep adding complex looking textures and lighting and think it's not going to put more load on your system. You can bypass the "devs" by just putting everything on ultra LOW settings.
Gpu pricing is
I have been saying this and sticking with this statement. Once you've used it. You stop looking at other GPUs. Don't care if it's fake, it's good.
i agree brother these days i can't play without it ,it just doesn't feel right to play native
Input latency.
It's ok for some games, slow games.
@@AnANas00-x3p i reduce it to one frame and i use low latency mode in the settings of the gpu so it's not that big of a problem
@@AnANas00-x3p The input latency is really really small like like were talking about less than 10ms so basically 60fps with FG added on looks like 120fps but still feels like 60fps when it use to feel like it was 40fps.
@@MrAnony0760 fps is good enough for me no FG needed.
i only use it in ffvii remake, and rdr 2, 30fps is unacceptable, used my TV for FG 😁
2.12 Takes a small (but necessary) step further. Here is the gist from the developer:
"Introduced a new "Resolution Scale" option for LSFG. This feature allows input frames to be processed at a reduced resolution while generating output at the original resolution. For example, when playing at 1440p, setting the scale to 50% enables LSFG to generate 1440p output from a 720p input. This provides a performance boost with only a minor quality trade-off (depending on the game). Note that this is not related to image scaling; rather, it reduces the amount of information available to LSFG for motion estimation."
Also, if you're on Windows 24H2, it is now recommended for users to use "WGC" instead of "DXGI" now. This is because "Microsoft changed how the Desktop Duplication API (DXGI) functions, making it heavily reliant on MPO (Multiplane Overlay) support. Without MPO, DXGI cannot reliably distinguish between updates from game window and the LS window when both are displayed on the same monitor. This prevents it from capturing only new frames, thereby breaking the existing framepacing algorithm." Your experience may vary if your system has "MPO" enabled.
@@OGBouncin94 well?? he did say "Here is the gist from the developer"
@@OGBouncin94
Bro is onto something ❌
Bro is on something ✅
How to know about MPO status of the 24h2 pc?
@@sm13753 MPO has been a part of Windows drivers since Windows 8.1. It is enabled by default and can only be disabled using registry tweaks. Basically, if you don't know about it, you don't need to worry about it.
Isn't this just upscaling? This is just LSFG's own upscaler.
Thought you're just over-reacting. Tried it, and will probably use it for every game now 🤣
What happens when you use both lossless scaling and dlss/fsr frame gen at the same time?
Definitely not for competitive shooters though. Its good, but the input lag is there.
@@poka26ev2their outputs add-up, sort of... but I think that the latency would be more unbearable than with only one fg at a time.
@@Crazzzycarrot-qo5wr Yeah, first person shooters isnt very good. But singleplayer/story games are wayyy better with this
@@Crazzzycarrot-qo5wr It add almost no input delay now it's so small now it's entirely unnoticeable even on mouse basically 60fps feels exactly how 60fps should feel instead of it feeling like it was 40fps back then it's that good now.
1990s: download more RAM!
2020s: download more FPS!
Afmf2 doesnt turn itself off if u change the search mode to 'high'.
Afmf 2 is the best in quality and latency between fsr, lossless scaling.
Select searchmode 'high' and Quality mode.
Wow, look at this guy you're ruining the script of the video to make AMD look bad! No but seriously, I expected better from Vex..
@FewCan456 If it doesn't work at all with a mouse like it's supposed to, you deserve critique when releasing it on PC...
@@MLWJ1993it's not that it doesn't work but controller input for camera movement is objectively smoother which helps when interpolating frames
AFMF 2 has horibble UI ghosting and can't differentiate between shadows, objects and character models. LSFG has absolutely better quality than FMF and even search mode high, it can turn off. Unlikely to turn of but can. Latency might be slightly better than LS but there's no other advantage to FMF.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat no it doesnt. Afmf2 has zero ghosting if yourbase fps is above 60fps and select quality mode.
Afmf2 is the best at both quality and latency.
Lossless scaling works with dual GPUs, so if you have a configuration that supports the second GPU, you could buy something like a 5500 XT run the scaling off of that card. You need a card at least as powerful as the 6600 XT to comfortably do 4K scaling, but it removes the performance hit that you get from activating the frame generation. It is also much more difficult to run on Nvidia cards, and you'll find better results on low end AMD cards, even compared to higher-end Nvidia cards
As for cards capping out without setting VSync on, there is a limit to how many frames a card can push depending on how intense the scenario is.
SLI making a comeback?
i use it that way regularly thanks to my iGPU. Results in no hit to base frame rate as long as you can keep iGPU utilization in check.
Do you think free sync also work from the secondary card?
I do the same, with my $220 RTX 3060ti as the main GPU and a $36 RX 5600XT as the secondary GPU. Not the best combination, but it works with most games. Definitely better performance than just using the 3060ti or using the iGPU for LS.
Note: cap your frames using the games limiter or with Rivatuner. The performance will be smoother.
if graphics is too hard for the gpu, just lower the settings and you could get enough fps.
But the CPU might also put a hard cap in heavy NPC or action scenarios and that's when lsfg is gold!
Brother there is a bot comment on top of all the comments, try keeping your community safe from these scams.
Edit: I think he removed the comment, good on him!
I think RUclips should try to protect their users/platform, really shouldn't be the responsibility of creators to do this smh
@@babytronsab RUclips must be promoting these scams? How else would that comment be on the top?
Report Report report: Yeah, bots getting wild out here 😅.
Almost everytime I have tried lossless scaling there have been visual artifacts usually my character flickering invisible. So really it isn't lossless , when my characters losing his head haha
truu
Cap ur frames to something u archive all the time
Yeah it doesn't like 3rd person shooters very much. Avoid using x3/x4 options for those games. Make sure you have 60 real fps as well.
It's better with controller than with mouse imo, I love using it with emulators
You can try using LSFG 1.1 instead of LSFG 2.3 it has less artifact from my experience but unfortunately now you have to choose 2.11 version from the beta section because LSFG 1.1 is reomved in 2.12.
One of the most useful programs ever. I use it with Elden ring to hit 120 fps while still running Easy Anti Cheat. Also can be used with emulators with games that have a 30 fps cap.
Yes this thing is a godsend with locked 30 fps. Patapon 1,2 and 3on psp emulator looks fantastic
Playing Marvel Ultimate Aliiance 3 and it looks incredible! great program for emulation
Hi Vex,
Thanks so much for this review - great job as always!
Just a quick note: the framerate is capped because setting "Max latency" to 1 limits it to the monitor's refresh rate. It needs to be at least 2, preferably 3 (with 3 being the recommended setting for AMD GPUs), or you can use Sync mode OFF (Tearing) with VRR to avoid visible tearing.
Also, check out version 2.12 - it includes a "Resolution scaling" option that can really help lower-end GPUs.
@@ths794 incoukdnt get the resolution scaling to work, butnthe fram gen pairs with the in-game resolution scaling well
The framerate could be capped in the game settings, which is a good idea if you are running frame gen, which is why I am baffled that neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to cap the framerate or use a defined scaling factor. Running unlocked on a low spec machine is bad enough. Throw frame gen in the mix and you're in for a stutterfest.
I used on Helldrivers 2 my gpu actually can reach 120+fps but this program just "lock" my fps to 120 solid fps and no drop at all. It just amazing
I have been using lossless scaling for a while now, and it's a lifesaver on my 1660 ti optiplex build. Its crazy getting 120fps on a 5 year old mid range budget gpu with a 7 year old cpu.
What is crazy is playing Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a 12 year old GTX 670 and 10 year old i7 and being just as competitive in ranked racing as you are on a modern system capable of running the game at 1440p at high refresh rate with native rendering.
@@Lurch-Bot How tf are you all not getting unbearable latency?
Doesn't it damage your GPU at all? Or least of all overheat? It's kinda like overclocking boost right?
years dont matter dude, xeon e5 ivy-bridge is exactly same perfomance of i7 from 12-14th gens and xeon phi are equivalent to 13-14th gen i9 or xeon 1st gen videos are already out here in youtube seach it out u will see.But yeah if u bought an i3 7 years ago thats a different story
I'm using this program for awhile now and it's great, you can even generate frames in videos, watching movies in 96fps instead of 24 is wild
im gonna type this just in case some one has a problem with the fps. you can only use one frame gen method meaning you either chosse the in game frame gen or lossles scaling because if you use both lossles will have to work 2 times harder to give you more frames because it has to add more frames to the game and than do it again for the frame gen leading it to be lower than it should be which makes your computer run the game slower than it would using only one method for the frame gen.
The issue with latency is not just the added latency of the tool, but the inherently high latency of low base FPS. Base 30 fps is going to feel unresponsive no matter how good the frame generation is, but going from 60 to 120 feels okay.
that is what i thought too
Is 30 base to 60 fps fg bad?
@@EatsTofu X2 is like the best out of X3 and X4 in terms of fidelity so i'd say no, it's very good especially on quality mode for me, i think the minimum requirement for X2 is 30 fps, 45 fps for X3 and 60 fps for X4
Great video. I use LS a lot with my laptop/eGPU. Here are some things others may want to consider.
- Make sure your GPU has headroom for LS processing, drop the settings to get this.
- You can run the game in lower resolution and upscale it with LS as well, or run game with FSR and then use LS
- You can set LS to use a different GPU, like your iGPU. This is useful if using an eGPU on a laptop and using the laptop screen. Though you need a modern iGPU.
- Lock the games FPS at a level where it is constant, not fluctuating. A fraction of your monitor frequency is good as the FG will match the monitor. This make the LS FG also smooth.
More on laptop+eGPU+LS
- Use eGPU to render game in 1200p (for Thunderbolt connection) and set LS to upscale and frame generate on the iGPU.
- I do this with a 12500H laptop and a GPD G1 eGpu via Thunderbolt.
Yes, you can technically do these things but some of your suggestions fall into the category of 'just because you can doesn't mean you should'. Using both FSR and LS1 together will make it look like someone smeared vaseline all over your monitor. And 4x frame gen is there, but you shouldn't use it.
I'm going to be trying out LSFG on my budget gaming laptop to see how it does running on the iGPU. I only have a 1650Ti and it struggles a bit with TOW Spacer's Choice. But, based on the experience I had testing LS on a Quadro K2200, I don't think UHD 630 is going to cut it. Way less powerful than your Iris Xe iGPU. Could probably handle scaling but not frame gen.
Even small model AI inference requires more grunt than a crappy old intel iGPU can handle. Scaling is easier because it is far simpler interpolation. My first digital camera, more than 20 years ago, could upscale images.
If you're old enough, you might be aware of the '90s action movie trope of 'enhancing' an image after zooming in. In one comedy, they quipped, 'sorry, it doesn't work that way'. Now I can do that on my smartphone. Still takes like 15 seconds, even with a NPU. Without a NPU, though, it takes infinite seconds because a smartphone iGPU isn't anywhere near being able to run the algorithm in a useful time frame. That's basically what you are doing with frame gen - inferring the value of a pixel based on the value preceding it and following it, which isn't much different than enhancing an image. You are inferring data you don't have from the data you do have. And you are doing it in realtime, with brute force, on a GPU that was never really intended to run ML algorithms. Well, I am.
At the end of the day, it is still just a parlor trick. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
@Lurch-Bot I suspect your results will be poor as you need a more modern igpu. But it would be interesting to see. For me I can play games like starfield and cyberpunk this way. In part it is to get over the thunderbolt constraints and with oculink or TB 5 I expect you would get better results just using the egpu.
I mostly use the older FG or the new on performance.
lossless scaling works amazingly with CPU bound games, its amazing. i can even use it for ray traced minecraft XD
"small glitches here an there" says he as the monkey's head fades in and out of existence 🤣🤣
I also use lossless scaling to add frames to movies or RUclips videos it works insanely good
Still trying to figure out how to make this work reliably. Need to take a deep dive into settings because I'm sure that's part of it. a recent test with YT didn't scale right. It also doesn't seem to do anything with popular subscription streaming services, probably due to HDCP. I would imagine if I were just trying to watch a ripped video file on VLC, it would probably work fine.
@@Lurch-Bot exactly with vlc and for RUclips i tried on Opéra GX full screen nothing changed in the settings it works like a charm
Great video Vex. Your content is super interesting and you make it clear and simple to understand.
The thing that I really like is that it works as a separate window and can be captured separately.
I did that to stream Wind Waker, which is natively 30fps. OBS was capturing the clean, original footage at 30 FPS, and I was watching LS at 60 FPS. I didn't get motion sickness, and the viewers didn't see the artifacting.
Bought it. Tried it. And i am truly amazed by this small program. I think its a must have nowadays (if you have a dedicated GPU, i womt explain here why but you still need a dedicated GPU).
Not really today in this generation. Pretty much anything you buy right now can at least hit 30fps right out of the box. The only thing that's really important is a high refresh monitor. So for example, if your monitor can do 1080p with "120HZ". And your main game is only 30fps. Times that by 4 that's 120FPS. Those new mini PC's are good enough for this program. The high refresh monitor is the most important thing for this program. If your monitor only has 60HZ, there's no real benefit using Lossless Scaling.
There is a certain amount of overhead. I got surprising results with a GTX 670 but when trying it with a Quadro K2200 (basically a 4GB 750Ti), it was pointless to use frame gen because it cut into the GPU rasterization performance too much. You could simply run Cyberpunk at 1080p lowest settings with a solid, capped 30fps with FSR or you could dial the cap down to 20 and get it running very poorly at 60fps with 3x frame gen, with a lot of latency and looking kinda muddy.
Protip: Use it while watching RUclips vids.
how
Ok bro
@@yxon1ph Hit "Ctrl + Alt + S" while in RUclips... or, click "Scale" in the Lossless Scaling App and then click the "Chrome" tab in your bar. Easy! 👍
@@amy-295 Watching Evangelion Neon Genesis @ 120 fps is cool. You should try it!
@@yxon1ph "Ctrl - Alt - S" on any media player or web browser (Chrome or Edge). Enjoy fluid videos 👍
Thanks Vex! I purchased this a while back but didn't really get much out of it - but tried the latest version on my ARC A750 and Star Citizen has gone from 30-40FPS 2k resolution everything on max up to 140! .... and it still looks amazing!! WOO WOO ( Verified FPS with the XBox FPS counter as well )
Dlss needs to stop the fake bs of "it's only possible on 4000 series" or it's dead.
3000 series has older dedicated frame generation hardware, but it's not used
Just when I thought this app couldn't get any better. The FG resolution scale option is genius. LSFG on a 4K screen used to be really expensive on the GPU so you had to change your whole screen's resolution depending on the game at was annoying, but this solves the issue!
I use lossless scaling to great effect. It makes Star Citizen, which is notoriously unoptimized in alpha, play like a dream.
I think the best way to test this, is on older GPUs, so we can actually see some fps going up... Because going up of 60 fps is a plus, but 60 is the lowest target
It would be cool to see a power usage analysis, like just set your gpu to lock at 30 with rivo tuner and then use this to upscale to 120 FPS and then run it basically at 120 to see what your equivalent usage is. I know it’s not all the same, but in talking cost to upgrade this seems like a good comparison. Not only do you not have the new gpu cost but you also don’t have the higher power usage to get to that rather fps. Thinking like you have a 3060 with lossless scaling Vs a 4080 or something to reach rather high FPS.
yea im gonna just use this on my gtx 1080 / rtx 3090 / z1 extreme
id already decided i wouldnt upgrade until rtx 6000 series anyway
but this really took it over the top..every upgrade is for frame rates
resolutions been ok for a while..but frame interpolation is a miracle
9:00 U can use it to your browser to watch anime 48fps. U can also select the main GPU for rendering and the other GPU for scaling.. I dont have second GPU to tried that, but I've tried it to my IGPU as scaler. And it is quite good
By chance have you tried with games not on steam? Im more interested to use this for Tarkov
@@aznballaboi4life its not about the game from steam or not. u should try your self different game different results
I have been using lossless scaling for a solid minute now. It clearly won't work for some games but for games that are framerate capped or super cpu bound. Fps capped games (terraria, fallout4/Vegas) and cpu limited such as gta5 and helldivers2. Just make sure you have extra gpu usage to spare! This software eats away at my 4080 like crazy
Haven't played a FO game since I got LS but I may be playing Vegas again soon and will try LSFG. The problem is that, with the Creation engine, load times are tied to framerate. And load times get excessively long in FO4, which is why I will just uncap it and accept the broken ragdoll effects and speech. You run into similar issues with Starfield and it is no accident that the 4090 can manage just over 100fps at 4k Ultra in Starfield. Just under the point where ragdoll physics break. That also means they basically tuned the game to run worse than it has to on lower spec GPUs.
As for LS 'eating your 4080 like crazy', that's just absurd. Earlier this year, I played Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60 on a GTX 670. LS has the most efficient frame gen algorithm. AMD and Nvidia have zero motivation to optimize their frame gen solutions. Lossless Scaling devs don't have any other motivation but to make their algorithm efficient.
What people think
Nvidia frame gen: ITS FAKE FRAME, REEEEEEEEEEE
Downloaded frame gen: ITS PERFECT! I LOVE IT!!!!!
Yes, this is the poor AMDemential fanbase avg logic
We can use it in all games even vids weeeeeee😂
I have a 3060 ti, buying this app costs $3, upgrading GPU to 4th series to use their FG costs way more. Fuck nVidia
@someoneelse8103 really? Uh poor kid... mind even AMD and sony will has their FG AI based so soon 😂😂😂 and you will pay for that 😂😂😂
This tool is incredible. I don't know how more people aren't talking about it. I've used it in Crysis 2 Remastered to go from an unstable 100 fps to a stable 140 fps. So I'm running this game at a stable 140 fps at max settings (except for Ray Tracing, which is at High) in 1440p on an RTX 3080 10GB (granted DLSS Quality is on, but it still looks really good). I'm using a Ryzen 5950x, if that matters.
Similarly, I've used it in Ghost Recon Breakpoint to go from around 100 fps to 130 fps.
In both cases, I have not perceived any loss in image quality or any noticeable artefacts.
I don't get how this isn't bigger news in the gaming community.
Another thing I've found with lossless scaling(LS) is it really depends on the specific game you are running, some games respond very well and others not so much. Space Marine II responds extremely well, I've been running it in x2 mode with my frames capped at 80(160 w/ LS) and it's awesome. Remnant II however looks better with AMD's frame-gen as opposed to LS, more visual artifacting in this case. Windwaker HD(CEMU) at x3(30 to 90) is butter, with minor visual artifacting(totally worth it here though imo, even over x2 mode). Deadpool(pcsx3) at x2(30 to 60) benefits from smoothness, but has visual artifacting like Vex was showing with Black Myth Wukong at x4 mode, character model Phasing in and out of existence that sort of thing. Just a few of my experiences, it's a wonderful program and I recommend it!
Yes, YMMV. It doesn't work with literally EVERYTHING. Doesn't work on LA Noire, not that I need it to, lol. Also, while the instructions say you must run the game in fullscreen mode, Cyberpunk only worked with LS using windowed borderless.
I have used LSFG with a 12 year old GTX 670. That was mind blowing. 2x scale and 2x FG allowed me to play Forza Horizon 4 at 1440p60. It wasn't perfect - menus would get kinda blurry when moving quickly through them and the moving map was a little shaky. Still usable though. Still was able to do ranked racing as well as I would on a much better system.
@@Lurch-Bot TY for the info, Cyberpunk is a great use case for LS! Pretty impressive FH4 perf too!
Hey! What kinda games could I try LS on CEMU? The ones i have actually have a 60fps mod. I get that if you have a high refresh rate monitor you could benefit anyways but mine is 75hz XD
Edit: if it enhances smoothness I'll use it regardless the 60 fps mods
Rivatuner Nvidia reflex + lsfg has been my way to go for all games for 2 months now its way way better than normal fg... Being able to play every single story game on 180 fps with very good latency have been a dream come true to me
Can you explain the process you use?
@@juanospina3690Its really simple as it is
I just use Nvidia reflex through rivatuner and then Ensure my games have at least a 45-60 base frames and turn on x3 lossless scaling with turning off vsync option in lsfg that's it
The beta branch of LSFG was recently updated with SGSR upscaling which is supposedly lightweight.
This is a game changer for broken games like Wild Hearts. Even though Im running the game at 60fps by the counter, it feels like its running at 20. With lossless scaling I run that game at 100fps caped at 50, to achieve perfect frame times. Finally I can play it
How's the input delay? That's what everyone's talking about.
Bought this a few months ago, can't ever play games like Minecraft without it, removed my need for always wanting to upgrade my system, Highly recommended
There is an app called something like borderless minecraft and it works super well with LS. It can be downloaded from github. I use it every time i play.
Thanks for the video. I use the afmf 2 and it has been plenty enough so far.
One thing I'd like to add is, while in game frame caps can be fine, I prefer/recommend capping frames at the driver level. So using Nvidia control panel for team green cards or Radeon chill(in AMD Software: Adrenalin Edition) for team red.
I've found that in game frame caps often will allow the game to occasionally go above the cap in some situations(sometimes frequently), which can affect smoothness with lossless scaling, the built in options by Nvidia and AMD have always hard capped at what I've set and keep the game locked down.
I've been using lsfg on the legion go for a while now and it's a game changer!
Bro you can even use it on YT! This is amazing!
as a work laptop player, now switching to gaming laptop (with 240hz screen) i think lossless frame gen will get me the fps i allways wanted :D
Lossless is awesome, found the app a bit ago and really helps when running on a 2060 laptop (upgrading to a 7900XT desktop soon)
If you do x2 mode just cap your frame rate to half your monitor's refresh rate to avoid microstuttering or frame skipping. x3 = 1/3 and x4 = 1/4 of your monitor's refresh rate. I use rivatuner to cap my frames btw and it works great. I you have old hardware like rx 580 or gtx 1060 use performance mode it uses less resources in exchange for very little image quality impact but still worth it.
"trying lower end GPUs" - it's a 6600. feelsbadman
still perfectly fine for 1080p
What cpu do you have
@@__-fi6xg I think the point is that RX 6600 isn't that low end.
@@HunterTracks but it is, i have games that require more than 8 gb in 1080p on ulra
@@__-fi6xg I'm pretty sure that not being able to play all games on Ultra settings doesn't make a card low-end. Maybe in terms of cards you can buy brand new it's on the lower end, but it's definitely not low-end in terms of cards that are actually in use right now.
Honestly love this software. It makes my games so much better especially when it performs better than most of the in game frame gen implementations.
It shows before and after fps as the same. Also according to afterburner+rtss overlay it halves the actual fps when enabled. And my experience confirms that because playable games becomes unplayable when i enabled it. And my settings are exactly as yours. Game is running at borderless window mode etc. Gpu is rtx4090 (laptop).
40fps is very playable if your frame times are even and not erratically variable. What you need to realize with Lossless Scaling is the lower your fps is below 60, the more unstable the image will be when utilizing LSF 2.3 Frame Generation.
40fps feels like crap. 60 is my absolute minimum for Story games and 120 to 240 is how I like to play fps games. Once used to this, going back is torture.
I'm an indie game lover, and some of them don't support over 60fps. To name a few: Celeste, Noita and Nova Drift. LS does an amazing job with them! I just have to make sure to go to the nvidia control panel, and set their low latency mode to ultra.
It also works wonders with gameplay videos on youtube (maybe even twitch too), I think you didn't mention that. LS can work with any window, not just games.
I use lossless all the time with rtx 4070 in games where the pc port is bad like gta 4 and assassin creed black flag
These games with frame generation becomes a whole different games especially in ac black flag case
That game is so so beautiful but locked in performance
But lossless scaling gave a new life to the game so yeahh
Totally recommended if your gpu is powerful enough to render lossless fg properly...
I would like to mention that there is an optimal setting for Nvidia and AMD GPUs, which is different lower down in the graphical settings. In lossless, the dev stated, “The new "Max Frame Latency" option acts as a balance between latency and performance. There is no best value, as all systems are different. Most likely, the optimal value will be 1 for Nvidia GPUs and 3 for AMD. It should be at least 2 (3 for AMD) if you want LS to be able to render over refresh rate.” In one of their updates to the app, this I believe really helps with the ghosting issue you were seeing with the AMD card.
Best thing is: you can use the framegen in any video. RUclips, vlc, animes...and it's soo much better than the old stuttery 24/30 fps.
You can use it with emulators too.
Such a gem.
It's actually perfect for watching RUclips videos, especially 60 fps gameplay videos.
Note: if Lossless Scaling is making your game run at 2 fps, try running Lossless Scaling directly from the .exe file and don't launch it using Steam.
4x frame gen sounds great but, no matter the algorithm, you're going to have some noticeable input lag. LS works best when you limit it to no more than 2x frame gen and 2x scaling. I played Forza Horizon 4 for over 100 hours at 1440p60 on a GTX 670, using 2x LS1 scaling and 2x LSFG 2.1 frame gen. I was just as competitive in ranked racing because the latency increase was basically imperceptible. There were a couple of very minor graphical glitches - the moving map was a little shaky and you would get some distortion when moving quickly through menus. Otherwise, it was a solid result.
The best thing about Lossless Scaling frame gen is the fact you can dial in a locked framerate, which you cannot do with either AFMF or DLSS 3. This causes the system to always run at 100% so that any time you get a momentary increase in resource demand, you get a stutter. In general, this is why running an unlocked framerate is always a bad idea, especially on a competitive title.
Another thing people don't talk about with Lossless Scaling is the fact that you can use a second, weaker GPU to handle the overhead from the app, leaving your main GPU to put all its effort into rasterization. Neither AMD nor Nvidia allow you to do this and I don't think people realize how much overhead there is with scaling and frame gen.
This is why I just laugh when people talk about the 4060 and frame gen. 2x, 3x, 4x from 20fps at 1080p Ultra with RT in Cyberpunk is still going to run and look like crap.
05:29 this does NOT happens to me. and i know that amd fixed this issue, are you on a lower amd driver by chance? im being serious AFMF is actually quite good, its good to know that i can enable FG from my own driver and know that its a good implementation tho.
So did they pay you in any shape or form?
I just gave this a try. I started playing Assassin's Creed (IV 2013) Black Flags this month and it only goes up to 60 fps. Having been used to above 100 fps playing at 60 is painful. It is hard playing beyond a couple hours. This really helps. Though it is not as good as a true 120 fps it is definitely better than playing without it.
There is a mod for black flag to remove the 60 fps cap on nexus.
@@Crimsongz thanks, much better.
Going to try this. I've been playing stalker 2, where I'm getting 20-30 fps even with optimizer mods. I'd be totally happy just to hit a solid 60fps.
did it work? or is the latency unbearable?
I think X2 is the best option for people who have setups which can run latest games at around 35 fps at low-medium settings and can use FG to get a pretty solid 60. The other modes are good for people with stronger setups who already get 60+ fps and want to x3 it or x4
we got this before valorant replay system
I finished wukong using Lossless On a Rx 6600 XT and let me tell you if you're not a person to neat pick things its so much better and makes the game experience so much smoother and i didn't even feel it being unresponsive at all
Too many bugs. Artifacts, random black screens, center screen character models disappearing? Yeah i have none of those issues with AFMF2.
Had you actually tried Lossless Scaling for yourself?
@@JeanOJesus I tried. And its trash. Looks bad feels bad compare to afmf2
@@csincse I bet you don't know how to use it properly
@@edalecu I could say the same. You dont know how to use afmf2 properly. Btw how I cant use it properly? It should go like click scale and done? And yet, still bad image quality without using the upscaling part and massive drops. So....
@@csincseI have been using on terraria/fallout/gta5/Valheim/helldivers 2 with a 4080 😂 and its been working great
Why in my AMD Vega 7 integrated gpu, lossless scaling only reduces fps instead of increasing it and theres some water like effects on the sides of the screen
psst, hey yall, just a reminder that you dont NEED to use lossless scaling for gaming only, you can literally enable it on like a movie or something and have it at 240fps, im watching arcane with lossless scaling on and its amazing!
You think this will even work with a 1660 Super?
@@JoeyMania91 worked on a shitter 750ti (literally falling to pieces) i dont see why not a 1660
@nortonlucas, sounds good lol. And does it really make input lag bad or is that just from people with like 25 MB speeds lol?
Depends on the settings you use, I did feel input lag on 4x, games were running way smoother but moving camera around felt about half a second slower, would not recommend 4x for shooters, great for non competitive games tho, survival games n stuff. Also love 4x frame generation for anime.
@nortonlucas , yeah I was going to use this on single player Games and No Man's Sky because I have like 20 mods lol. But thanks for the insight. I appreciate it.
Anyone know what song starts playing at 2:50?
I swear to god I've heard it before but I can't remember and its driving me crazy lol
thanks started watching movies and your vids with lossless scaling, we like Vex having more frames
In AFMF2 I can set it to work always on even when moving camera so fast , its two options that are under it , search mode and performance mode , put them on high and performance mode and FG will always work
Yeah, I tested this in helldivers 2. I have my game capped at 72 fps in adrenalin and used afmf 2, but I can't feel the 144fps at all. When I used this software, I feel the 144 fps now.
This tool does not seem to exist in the german Steam Store. Anyone have any idea, whats going on there? - When I wonna buy it, it says: Not available in your country. wth ?????
i tried 4x and it doesnt feel as good as 3x, it makes my base framerate too low, but then 3x is way better than 2x, weird
Try capping your fps to a target you can always achieve, then try the different modes to see the real results
@@GustaviustwinkelberryThe problem is, it almost halves my base FPS, then it quadruples that, so in reality it only doubles it, and even then it doesn't reach 170hz...
Been using it for a few months, it’s fking amazing! I even use it for movies and anime.
I found the best way to use it is to lock FPS to 60 then activate LS.
I love lossless scaling literally use it to watch anime all the time what alot of people might find wrong but i just love it so much
Been using it for RUclips videos a few days after it released, It's been my goat even for mihoyo games that have a sad 60fps lock, this program is consistantly running and even auto starts in my pc, I never have it off
PS. Run the game wi down and activate the program, it will scale it to full screen or stretch it to fix your display within the settings, so even if the game goes smaller on your screen, LossLess Scaling will scale it to full screen
I use it for GZ Doom games, and for Switch Emulation. Specifically GREAT for Zelda ToTK used with the 60 fps mod. Also great for games you add a lot of mods to, like Cyberpunk, so if you add a bunch of stuff that starts hurting your FPS, use this to bump it back up. I find it looks better in Cyberpunk compared to the FSR framegen mod.
It even has frame generation resolution scaling now 🙂
My question is, so I have this software in steam how do I run it with other games when I click play on it and then hit play on something else it turns off. Any help would be awesome!
i have a meaty PC but i still used to lose frames in Guildwars 2 big group content,
i've started capping my FPS to 60 and running lossless scaler whenever i play
and now not only can i run the big group content with buttery smooth FPS,
but my pc is also way quieter when i'm not in the big group content because my fps is capped at "60"
(120 thanks to Lossless Scaler) instead of unlimited which i used to have it set too. :D
so its a win win!
i tried this and it adds so much input lag it makes my hand hurt from moving the mouse so delayed.
you have too low base FPS 😕
@edalecu 120 fps locked doubled to 240, I don't think that's low.
@@yarincool1237 there is something wrong there.
@80fps+ base i'm ok with the input lag when I add 2x FG. At 120 FPS base it should be much better. Just a little heads-up for you: you should limit the overall fps a little lower than your monitor refresh, else you could get small stutters.
When I need to use LSFG, I limit my base fps to 1/2 -3fps of my screen refresh rate (79FPS). So I get 158FPS on my 165Hz monitor and it's perfectly smooth and responsive. I also use G-SYNC ON+VSYNC ON and Low Latency mode ON/ULTRA from the nvapp.
Good content, I think that developers are throwing games with high standards regardless of what the user has to play it, Lossless scaling has proven that if you want you can improve performance and you don't even need an RTX. I think there is a reason why games run at 30FPS and at most 60FPS is that they are aimed at consoles. And regarding size, they don't need to put them on a DVD, so they simply leave much of the game uncompressed. I don't think game optimization will improve on the part of developers, but hopefully third-party apps achieve better optimization and force them to improve their software.
this video is gold
#Vex can I use loseless on my nvidia GTX 1050 TI ?or what card do you recomend to buy for play Path of exile 2 i have i7 8700 3.70ghz cpu, its a bad cpu also?
only if the best possible visuals aren't compromised, visuals always first, than after that we will consider if there any room for fps
IF YOU HAVE LOW FPS DO NOT USE IT!!! IT WONT WORK THE SAME WAY FOR YOU!!!
Why? Well lets say you have 15fps, you have 66ms latency, using the tool will drop it to 10fps, about 100ms, and thats your latency, even if you get 4x and get 40fps you wont have latency of 25ms, but 100ms, you will clearly see that its fixable if you bump the fps more before generation, game will look like dogshit with fsr scaling)
If you have two GPUs you can make one of them do the FG computational work so the other won't take a hit in the base FPS. The secondary GPU has to be decent though
I can confirm, Loseeless Scaling really works, it takes a bit FPS from your game in order to run, but it doubles the FPS afterwards. I use this in Cyberpunk, from like 48 FPS without DLSS it goes to 80+. It doesnt work on fullscreen tho and there is a latency, bigger than Framegen.
All these people saying it doesn't work in fullscreen but I used LS to play Forza Horizon 4 for 100 hours in fullscreen mode. I think the important thing to remember with LS is YMMV. Doesn't always work like they say it does and won't work with literally every game. The second game I tried LS with was LA Noire and it didn't work in fullscreen or windowed or borderless mode. But I also played FH4 at 1440p60 on a GTX 670. I don't think that would have worked with AFMF, even if the game supported it. AMD and Nvidia have zero motivation to make their frame gen solutions more efficient and my experience (rather limited due to poor support) with AFMF is that LSFG is superior.
@@Lurch-BotBro, what the hell you talking about ? It just won't work in fullscreen, tried that in over 100 games.
very informative thank you 🙏🏿
You should've waited just a bit before recording this video! Yesterday lossless scaling released an update, and it's not a tiny one.... And as for afmf now the frame gen should work much better, if you select high search mode and quality preset on afmf (latest drivers at this time). but i only know because of a friend of mine that has a 7900xt, so don't blame me if I'm wrong. Still a nice video, I always enjoy watching you, but inform yourself better before! Keep it up!
The only bad thing is that increases the input lag significantly. The frames it generates are not "playable" frames, so you will notice more input lag, specially in FPS games.
However it's an awesome tool that you can use to play videogames, watch videos and movies. Yes you can increase FPS for movies or series, and it works.
I've read this is possible to use on integrated graphics. I'm trying to make Valheim run nicely on a pretty new laptop (solid CPU and 32GB ram) but with integrated (Intel Iris Graphics). Regardless of what settings I play around with it seems to want to sit at 20-25FPS, which is stuttery enough to bother me.
another thing to mention that alot of pc games with a good amount of traction have mods on nexus mods that optimize the game for performance while also keeping most of your settings the same, for example cyberpunk2077 has like 20+ mods i can think of that optimize game settings and the game itself so it doesnt waste vram
bought it... tried it in stalker 2 it does a pretty good job better than FSR, i dont have a 4000 series so i cant speak to Nvidias frame gen, but compared to fsr it "feels" better HOWEVER you will notice slight bluring around your hands and weapons sometimes.
I just a black screen with Stalker 2 and LS (even when windowed) :(