Just to add a bit of context. I asked both Pixelated Apollo and Volound to not hold anything back and to challenge me about why I like Warhammer 3. It was confronting but it was what I asked them to do. There was no bad blood between us during the whole conversation and we walked away virtually shaking hands.
Cool, we don't care, there are better people you can collab with that are TW players and have better conversations about pros/cons about the games and everything in between. Stop giving clowns the platform.
@LegendofTotalWar You stood your ground and defended the game you like against the other guys, so hats off to you, Legend. I think the way you go about sending a message to CA about what they should fix is way better than the blind hate Apollo and especially Volound are spreading.
That was not really a issue, the real issue was that they confronted you about why they disliked WH3, and instead of offering your own perspective, you simply agreed with them. You never shared why you enjoyed the game, which is why they kept asking why you liked it. On streams and in videos, you’ve given plenty of reasons why you enjoy WH3, but in this podcast, the only thing you mentioned was that breaking the game is fun, which isn’t exactly a positive take.
@@LegendofTotalWar People are taking it a bit too I don’t know how to say it personally or seriously, like getting offended, I found it entertaining content with Volound playing the aggressor, Apollo playing the guy who’s on the sides chucking the ideas and you playing the balanced straight man who puts it in orderly fashion. Good content. It wouldn’t be entertaining if everyone played the safe balanced role or the aggressive role people need to take that into account before taking it to heart
Sorry but this is a horrible take that makes you look like an insincere person that actually tacitly agrees with 2 people who constantly call Warhammer games shit. Your tier videos explained it much better.
LoTW here, and today we have a very special saving your disaster situation. We are facing 4 full stacks of Pixalated Apollo´s Knights and there is also Volound in the mix there, who is pretty strong and we don´t wanna get close and personal with him. As per usual, we have a load of crap to defend ourselves, we were caught in force march, so we are going to have to cheese our way ouy of here. Anyway, let´s jump right into it and let´s see what we can do. Now for real, the first 2 parts were brilliant, and I´m sure this one will be too. Thank you all 3 for making this happen!
This trilogy was not that brilliant, almost nothing of importance was really said other than "CA bad, go back to the old games cuz they were good, new games are bad," Legend not really defending himself on why he disagreed outside of "I like to cheese and there's a lot of it" (which is fair, but apparently neither Apollo or Volound wanted to concede the point out of ignorance or bias, take your pick), like half the time it was them trying to goad Legend into saying "so it's shit then, admit it," or just being entirely apathetic to outright pretentious in Apollo's case about people making a career out of newer TW games. And we all know CA's bad. That's not new.
Listening to Legend over the years going from mouthy Aussie with an attitude, to a mouthy Aussie who is much kinder with an attitude, brings a smile to my face.
This was a nice reminder of a big reason I watch Legend. It's rare to find people who excel at a game who is also welcoming to people who are not good at the game. Who understand that their viewers are more casual players than them.
strategy games have often that problem goddamn trying to get into i gonna call it "casual competitive" is in some games hard you gonna get stomped and hated on bc you suck but you gonna barely find info and people to get good in it
@@scrollexdestiny Finding a good and humble person beat you in a strategy game and then give you tips on stuff is the best feeling ever. Especially if you're on a loss streak or something and the help is genuinely helpful, just like a fundamental thing you hadn't picked up on or something, and you start winning because of it.
@@spiffygonzales5160 he is often right about Total War, yes, and some of his analysis is excellent. But his personality is horribly toxic. I can't listen to him, even when he's right, because he's so desperately insufferable.
RUclips is a website on which anyone can upload videos, its their own business what they try to achieve with it. I highly doubt Volound is in it for the money and making "content". See any of his videos.
@@BittermanAndy yeah its just not total war hes weird about, he goes on political rambles on twitter a lot, seems like all round hes just a miserable fuck
"just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good". This is what we call cope. A game that no one plays is worse than a game everybody plays sorry. Especially since both are equally accessible.
@@loowick4074 Definitely not. You're confusing success with quality. Particularly with single player games where your game is not affected by other people. There can be objective problems with games (bugs, glitches, terrible balance) that make a game bad. You can enjoy a game whilst acknowledging that it is poor quality (which Legend does).
Some people do seem incapable of change(for the better). Their ego will not let them...and if that ego is not placated they'll more often than not go on a downward trajectory.
He's Walter from 'The Big Lebowski'. Every time I hear him talk about Total War I'm reminded of the scene where The Dude tells Walter, "You're not wrong, Walter, you're just a fucking asshole!"
not everyone likes to play games on the hardest difficulty. most people play games on normal difficulty and enjoy what the game has to offer. not get frustrated or things by playing it on the hardest difficulty.
Casual gamers dont wanna spend 45 minutes in 1 battle and end up losing it in the end, so thes either play at lower difficulty or send save file to legend Personally, i dont wanna spend 6 hours and be on turn 10 or 15
It's Legend himself during a live who answered me and unlocked my stubborned attitude about frustrating campaigns 😂 I was looking for tips but he saw through it, that I was getting stressed out by the game. And basically told me why do you keep pushing on frustrating campaigns in the first place, instead of launching a new one. I had no answer to that, my focus was somewhat making a perfect campaign, slowly turning into an angry micromanager as challenges ( and bullshit AI ) were getting bigger. Ironically I play at a higher difficulty than I used to now, but I take my losses and it's well balanced between challenges and rewards. And when I'm done, I'm done.
i play exclusively on the highest difficulties, i think it's fun even during its frustrations, but... MOST people don't play on high difficulty. If you play on Very Hard/Legendary you are in the OVERWHELMING minority of players. And tbh many games respect your time so much more playing on normal difficulty. Many games, their "hard" modes simply take longer, they aren't really more "difficult" ... Bethesda style stat-buffing difficulty.
It’s not a difficulty though. It’s just cheats the AI gets because they can’t program the AI better. And the combat those cheats you have to use games strats that don’t make sense in a normal game
@@TheSuperappelflapon some things yeah, but it's at the point where if you disagree with one thing he just sees you as a mortal enemy. Like i don't mind much the hp system if the numbers are correct. Like what's the difference if I have 2 wounds and 1 attack versus having 20 hp and 10 attack. It's still a 2 shot in both situations
@loowick4074 the difference is between most units having one hit point and a chance of dying to an attack Vs having a number of hitpoints and knowing how many hits they can tank. One is better suited for more realistic games and the other is more suited for fantasy games.
I used to watch volound but he got rather toxic and he mauled me in the comment section of one of his videos, I don't remember which one. Very angry fellow. You had a civil discussion with him? Guess he has gotten better? Funny thing is I agree with like 70% of what he says, but the 30% i disagree with him I disagree with him very hard.
He has not gotten better. I was in the same position as you. He saves his civility *only* for people he admires of higher social standing in his malformed worldview.
@@shmekelfreckles8157 I'm Scottish so it's easy for me to understand. Don't worry, he's mostly talking pish, you're not missing much. 'In love with the sound of your own voice' has nothing to do with accent.. it's basically someone who loves talking but doesn't listen to other people. A narcissist in other words.
Dude sorry but I had to stop watching this. Volund is so annoying and won't stop bitching. Like you keep trying to push the conversation, but volund just keeps butting in and being constantly negative. Never heard that guy before but 5 minutes in and I can't stand him
@@TheRealCalPerr right? Campaign is, like, literally half the game - more, in terms of time spent. The entire POINT of Total War is that it's a mix of turn-based campaign and real-time battles. Why would anyone want to exclude half the game from the conversation?
@@Anonie324 Nah fuck that, he needs to be platformed, especially by Legend. They guys been waging war on the series for years and shitstirring. Legend talking to him sets out where everyone stands and forces Legend to consider where he sits. Volound attacks basically every WH youtuber except him for some reason and acts wierdly sychophantic. But having them come to blows at least makes the waters less muddied. I hope after this, we won't have such a dumb passive tolerance of Volound's nonsense.
@@melo7038 Hmm. Decent point. Destiny platforming JonTron showed us all that the accusations of racism were actually massive understatements lol. Still, I'd rather it not happen more than a couple times, otherwise it's functionally a megaphone.
I don't watch Volund or his content, but ten minutes in this video, all I hear is an underclassmen desperately trying to impress an upperclassmen. Most of the time, Volund either trying or baiting Legend into more extremist takes; while Legend is mostly apathic or generalist. Volund clearly admires Legend, his reach, his content, and seniority. but his vitriol for CA blinds him so much, it turns the conversation slightly combative. To the point where Legend has to play referee and remind him that they are outliers and their experiences with Total War are not the de-facto opinion.
You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes on Volound's antisocial behavior. He behaves inexcusably to people who disagree with him, unless they're Legend, honestly, because he just wants Legend to parrot him for a broader audience. He's gone on record, many times, saying that people that like TWW are genuinely and literally stupid.
@@Anonie324and he is… right You people have ruined the franchise by paying for these crap games, overpriced dlcs and giving CA (a terrible company) a pass on mediocrity
Volound is so hard to listen to without being angry at him. He seems way too egoistical and selfish, I have no idea how did he make it this long. And I am not even talking about things they said, I genuinely had hard time listening to him when his time came, and not to mention, he cuts people so often, I have no idea how people do not lose respect for someone like him instantly.
The guys passionate about total war, and he’s angry about the simplification of it. I mean, are you passionate about anything? Or are you an empty husk? I have no respect for a lot of total war fans because they’ve let it fall into such disarray, a lot of you are just in the consume product, and then getting excited for next product.
The most pathetic thing about Volound is that he spend his life spitting on games, and people enjoying them; that he doesnt play anymore. He even flame random people's replies on reddit and YT by sharing them in his subreddit and discord. I don't see the point of having him in here, he's the avatar of toxicity in video gaming. Whenever he speaks it's just to display his elitism and vulgarity in this podcast
Exactly, he's become that meme with the 2 people playing and enjoying a video game that the 3rd person doesn't like as he watches and screams "QUIT HAVING FUN!"
Volound is seriously a remarkably awful personality. Dude is mean, bitter, dismissive, intrusive, and his beliefs get worse, the more you learn. I subbed to him back in like 2012, because of how damn good he is at Shogun 2. Eventually, I couldn't take it anymore.
@@CrèmeTropBrûlée buddy is trying to get u guys better games with more mechanics. I wish warhammer had all the features of med 2 and I play warhammer 3 and it’s very boring unless I play with friends it’s missing so many features i need to try and mod in he’s correct u guys just don’t like criticism on ur favorite game but the criticism isn’t there just to say warhammer is shit. He’s been saying the games have been bad since Rome 2 which is true AI is stupid the original founders left the game design keeps getting more and more simplified and aimed at selling u dlc
Right from the very start, Volound going straight in with "MY way is the RIGHT way and there IS NO other way" when Legend ever-so-gently challenges him on whether teaching people to play well should be the ONLY goal for Total War RUclipsrs. He doesn't get any less toxic, does he? Not listening to any more than that, the man is an absolute child.
The irony is by protesting to not listen anymore, you are acting like a child. Throw away the ego and bias and listen to the conversation. Even your username is a hypocrite lol.
@@Dayz3O6 no, I just don't waste time doing things I don't enjoy, because that would be a waste. But keep sucking off a complete stranger in your parasocial relationship with someone who doesn't know you and doesn't care about you.
It's beyond me how someone like Volound can be so devoid of empathy that he cannot understand that there are people playing games for escapism and immersion. So he derives his fun from challenge. Good for him! Other people who place less emphasis on challenge and more on immersion have the right to be here too. I don't see any reason why we should treat the selfish bastard with any more regard than he gives to those he disagrees with.
@@chrisjackson1215 I subbed to him back in 2012 because he is genuinely a god tier mastermind at Shogun 2. When I was 19, his edgy humor spoke more to me. His critiques of Rome II, and its horrible launch, also hit home, and prevented me from preorder disappointment. But his negativity only got worse, starting in 2014, and I finally unsubbed about 2 years ago when I couldn't take it anymore, though I'd been avoiding his videos for longer than that. When I posted my comment to that effect on the video that broke my spirit, his response was cruel, childish, shallow, dismissive, and wrote me off as a shill/mental defective who was too stupid to recognize that Warhammer was a stupid game that only stupid people could like. The only times he's come back up since then are when Legend, to my irritation, platforms him.
@@Anonie324I had an almost identical experience when I started calling him out for spreading anti-democratic, Pro-Kremlin propaganda on his second channel after the liberation of Bucha and documentation of Russian War Crimes.
volound has such a hate for the fantasy side of total war and is so jaded that he would never be able to admit that there is anything good about total warhammer. his biases make him kinda dumb on the topic. hes hated by a lot of the community for valid reasons. this doesnt make him entirely wrong, but his viewpoints are definitely skewed in the wrong directions
But what realy is good about it? Dont get me wrong all Tw Games are flawed and some more then the other. I Love Warhammer since u played Shadow of the hornet Rat in ps1. One of my Most played mods Is call of warhammer for medieval 2. I bought tww 1+2 super cheap and barely forcef myself to get 50 hours in the clock It Looks good, so i would give you that Point, but everything else is ok at best. Dlc infested and overpriced as fuck. You dont even get full faction rosters for the Main Game factions without buying several dlcs. Siegebattles are such a letdown. A.i ist dumb and Cheats way too much in vh. The normal Battles are fast and dont feel meaty and impactful. Recruiting and town building are also underwhelming and super simple. Maybe i Just cant connect with the newer tw Games. Different devs and such . And as a wh Fan i can Understand why people Play tww, there ist realy much Out there. But i Stick with the medieval 2 mods. 30 factions without spending 300 bucks.
@@nikallew50 I think the funnest part of fantasy is creating wacky armies. Stick in some giants or trolls, what about a gryphon knight? Hey that mage lord is very cool to let's blast some spells. So the spectacle of the thing I guess, I play shogun 2 on the side too, but if I want to set up a cool spectacle fantasy has shogun beat and it's sadly not even close.
@@nikallew50 I like being able to play all these factions with lots of variety in roster and heroes and magic. I like that most LLs have unique campaign mechanics that mean I can have a different experience when I play them that isn't just a different starting position. I like that stuff looks really polished, and it feels very cool to me as a WHF fan to be able to go all over the map and then fight there. To me, I found late campaign town building extremely tedious in the older titles, when you managed to get an empire it felt like you micro-managed towns more than actually battling. I did a lot of this in Call of Warhammer/BOTET before TWW came out so I know what you mean there too. Also I bought most of the DLC on sale for cheap, and over a long period of time so the price hasn't bothered me since I've played WH2-3 more than any other game I have. Don't get me wrong, I played total war from Rome back in the day too. There are good and bad things in the old and new total war, but for TWW I find it hard to really whine about because I enjoy it a lot.
@@nikallew50 firstly, youre not wrong about whats bad about it and dlc prices being nearly double the price that i would say is a good balance... but... this is a big game with a lot of attributes so i will state some things i find good about the game as you asked, tho i cant be bothered to try and list every little thing i find good about the game because that would be more time consuming than im willing to put into this comment the game has 24 factions and 100+ lords to choose from that can fundamentally change how you play that faction on the campaign. each faction has at least 20 different units with some having like 40 and thats not including warriors/daemons of chaos which is 4 different factions splattered into one who have like 80 units. its common to find units that are just straight upgrades to others, and many can be only that, and basically are reskins of other units, but i find that completely acceptable as its realistic and adds depth to the rpg side of the game (units being straight upgrades or is essentially the same unit but with different weapons to serve a slightly different function of your army). that is so much more diversity than any other game i can think of that its bordering on absurd, and theyre going to add even more. yes, of course, again, many units, most even, are reskins of other units between all rosters, BUT thats so much more the case of historical games and way more diversity than any of the others offer. why would i want to play a game where its human faction vs all other human factions, and the diversity is spear unit, sword unit, archer unit, and cav unit, chariot unit, and artillery, but all look like the same humans with different clothes and stats when i can play warhammer that also adds flying units, monstrous units, single entity monsters, a whole magic system with like 30 different lores of magic, and in addition to that diversifies the reskins of the roster that you have giant rat men with nukes and machine guns, aztecan lizardmen that ride dinosaurs, undead, elves, dwarfs, orcs and goblins, ogres, giants etc AND makes them look great and realistic (watch a historian rate the armor and weapons of this game compared to real life, they did a terrific job on that front). THEN they somehow take these 24 factions with like a thousand different units and 100+ lords, and somehow makes it more balanced in multiplayer than games with 2-4 factions and like 30 units total; its kind of an insane achievement. in addition to that, the warhammer fantasy lore is fantastic. this adds to the game specifically in terms of how factions and lords and units are balanced, and abilities they get, in addition to how the campaign looks feels and functions in some pretty clever ways. the cool factor is through the roof when all is said and done between unit, faction, and campaign map design and lore. the game somehow takes all of this in, and lets you have battles with thousands of units on said battlefield, yet somehow still doesnt have ps1 graphics, and terrible animations and instead does amazingly well on both fronts. some animations are good enough to pass in games where you control only one unit. its not perfect and you can easily find units butting heads with other units hitboxes in janky ways, but its better than i would expect to be possible had i not known this game existed. the game is physicalized so well also. its not perfect and even sometimes janky on this front again, but it routinely amazes me how organic some parts of the battles function like cavalry movement and charges, doubly so if you consider the scope of the battles. its something id expect from a game where you yourself have access to a single unit with like 30 units total in combat once again. usually in an rts game or grand campaign game, there will be factions i gravitate twards and stick to those, ill usually like 1-3 factions out of the 10 it has in a bigger game like this, (or 1 in the 3 or 4 in a smaller roster) but instead there is 2 factions i DONT like, and all the others i genuinely enjoy (with i think 3 factions i havent tried yet but eventually will), which is another feat i personally dont ever really see, tho some of the factions i like that do need some updating on specific things like lizardmens geomantic web, and the factions i dont like are just personal taste.
@@nikallew50 Theres a lot good about warhammer actually, the pricing is lame but Its why theres so much content. Just buy the dlcs on sale or a key reseller
I imagine Volund sitting there with his arms crossed saying “I know you are but what am I?” Y’all spent half this pod talking past each other and not really listening to each other.
If Volound's ego took physical form, its mass and size would far exceed that of the entire Earth... I understand his dislike for CA, but he doesn't stop there and treats virtually the entire community of players of newer Total War games with hatred and contempt.
First, people who play a game are not a community. Second, r/totalwar is not a community. Third, newer Total War gamers are being extorted with lesser products and deserve better than toxic positivity. Fourth, if people were as critical to the government as they are with Volound, we'd be having flying cars by now.
Just had to pop in with my own reactions listening to him: First five minutes: Jesus man, let Legend talk... and why are you going on about righteousness so much? And do you know what subjective means?? Nearing the end, after I read a comment about Apollo and Vol's channels being dead: What do you MEAN he has a Google Doc like a fucking CV with all the stuff he's 'done'?
Who are you to say what is and is not a community? Also I dont think that warhammer dlc are inferior product to older titles. Your last point is true tho haha
@@giokun100 Community is an incredibly broad term, you could define damn near any holders of a specific trait or interest as a community let alone a games playerbase, or a subreddit. Forums are one of the classic examples of an online community. Also baseless criticism doesn't push innovation, it usually does the opposite. Directed specific criticism is helpful, but if you think his form of criticism would lead us to flying cars then I'd like to point to the new US elect and cabinet which was largely created out of blunt unrefined criticism.
Lmao Volound saying he is virtuous for playing on the highest difficulty in a video game. I'm convinced that dude is just an elaborate troll at this point
"virtue: a good or *useful* quality of a thing : a commendable quality or trait : merit : : a capacity to act :" ....are you familiar with word concept fallacies by chance?
@@crucibleclips and here, in to defend the other troll, is a pretentious argumentative person doing the same thing volound does. Well done. Look at the context he said it in. He wasn't implying he had the capacity to play on legendary. He was saying it was his duty as if to imply there was a moral association with doing so.
@@kyleshuler2929 Duty does not carry moral obligation. It can be an obligatory task (absent morals) as well as conduct that must be shown to superiors (as in the audience).... Since you once again applied a word concept fallacy, I will now assert you were unaware of it. Please learn the language.
@crucibleclips look up the definition of moral and see how it lists virtuous in the definition. A virtue is something that is an inherently good trait or ability. There is NOTHING inherently good about playing a video game in any capacity. I'm done being trolled now, have a nice day. Thank you for illustrating the exact kind of pretentious condescending people volound and his fans are though. Hopefully it keeps people away from his garbage channel.
@@crucibleclips You criticize him for using a word concept fallacy, and yet your entire argument against it is built upon etymological fallacies, and passive aggressive ad hominem. Just because an argument contains a fallacy doesn't make it any less valid. Are you familiar with the fallacy fallacy by chance? Please learn the language.
Volound may have some points about CA and TW gaming experience but he's also a foul and nasty person in his videos, posts, and politics. Platforming and engaging this guy is a mistake. He is delusional and unconvinceable of anything opposing his beliefs. I appreciate Legend is interested in genuine conversation and is a good advocate for the series and especially its fans but he's getting taken for a ride here and won't get anything like a genuine conversation with someone like Volound.
I couldn't agree more. Giving him any time is a categorical mistake. His opinions are functionally impossible to separate from his profoundly antisocial conduct.
THIS !! For someone whose full time job is hating CA and praying for their games demise, it'd bode well for legend to distance himself from such ultra Toxic people..
I really dislike him, I wouldn't say it's a complete mistake, at least it will make an interesting discussion. Doomer and hater vibes with horrible choice in politics - he would be out of my social club and certainly not my friend. One thing is for sure, he isn't selling a persona, he is like that.
@@kitoharveywill5766 not every opinion is worth respecting or listening to even if presented well, earnestly, or kindly. I don't think the German Nazis of the 30s-40s had opinions worth listening to and they shouldn't have been given any legitimacy or platform to spread their opinions. I think volound has some points but he's clouded by arrogance and seething hatred in his analysis and most of his opinions are heavily based on these feelings which compromise their value. I'm sorry if you think we should listen to lunacy and vitriol just because. That is incredibly stupid
Pixalated Apollo and Volound just mad because their youtube channels are basically dead and they blaming warhammer, CA and "stupid" players who enjoin playing it its just pathetic behavior from fail content creator
@@GamerAccounts-s7s nah dude, I think his channel is cooked he has over 900k subscribers and he barely hit 20k views on videos often don't even get 10k and he use to get over 100k on every video
Why Volund? People like PixelatedApollo already exist. Volund does everything PixelatedApollo already does, only much worse. Volund is a professional Karen. Whining as a lifestyle. The kind to go on a tirade because his own balls are bothering him.
I love watching Okoii's videos for example, not because he is a cheese master or has amazing battle tactics, it's basically hilarious and fun content. If the person playing is having fun, they can cheese a siege battle for 2 hours and i'd enjoy watching it. I've 3k hours in this game and have very little left to learn or get good at so to me the content needs to be fun and fun only, no other criteria needed.
I'm right there with you. Love stuff like Okoii's video's, Legends. For the most part I don't care about "standard" battles. I've done them for 1.1k hours in WH3 and 2.4k in WH2. Why would I want to watch those? I do watch MIlkandCookies and Turin for replays. They can be fun, but that's not really the same since its multiplayer. I think these two can't accept times have changed and the audience isn't the same and/or the wants of the viewers aren't the same. Its like Let's Plays - they aren't as relevant anymore and you will see diminishing returns on that content. Legend found or created the cheese niche in TWW and its spawned a lot of other content creators too. A final point - I went back and played Atilla recently and I was bored. I don't find the battles entertaining like I used too. Warhammer and it's unit variety has ruined me. I also don't see the supposed "depth" of the tactics in it. I don't think WH3 is that tactically deep, but I think there are some rose-tinted glasses being worn when looking back at them. The main draw is the historical settings that we all nerd out over. A modern Medieval or Shogun would be great and make them feel closer to the quality of WH3. I'm also a big proponent of a fantasy setting in these games where you have basically mythological units and heros like WH3. Have both, don't skimp on either but I would love for some pagan vs Christian vs Islam magic forces
Not to be mean but this whole discussion felt kinda pointless to me. Both Volound and Pixelated Apollo had their mind made up with no willingness to actually engage in a genuine discussion about the pros and cons of Warhammer and Legend struggled to convey any of the many appeals of Warhammer to be honest.
I think Legend didnt mention anything specific about warhammer because he already knows what the reaction will be. Kinda pointless discussion w these 2 anyways.
I agree he seemed to not say anything, possibly for the reason you stated. So why waste the energy on it? Apollo barely sounds interested in the conversation and Volund won't let anyone else talk.
Their argument against total war warhammer relies on being self-focused and disingenuous. A game’s quality (except for it functioning or not) is mostly subjective. To say warhammer is bad is to ignore its popularity (look at view counts, player counts, sales). All those fans enjoy playing it for a reason. Having an opinion on entertainment doesn’t make those people wrong. It’s for fun. If they’re having fun playing warhammer, the game is probably good to them - for any reason. Both historical and warhammer are for people’s enjoyment, and people enjoy different things. This isn’t math, there is no right answer. You like what you like and you buy and play it. Fun is all a game has to be - having an opinion on a game doesn’t make you correct, it doesn’t make it less fun (“good”) for those who enjoy it, and it especially doesn’t make you virtuous.
That was brought up and the twos reaction was "oh that's just an appeal to popularity" I hate to break it to these guys but video games are a product that you have to sell. The fact is most of the TW fan base likes TWW, and these two are just coping when they say it's bad
@Ren99510 Thanks for pointing that out, and you’re right. PA bit the hand that fed him and his channel has never been as big. Sometimes I think the stress of that is funneled toward hating TWW. You can’t understand why people don’t watch you anymore turns into you can’t understand why people turn to TWW instead. But I don’t know these people personally, so that’s just presumptuous on my part. I can’t judge, either. It must be hard to not want to support CA and have your channel suffer.
@Ren99510 100% and in my opinion big part being only my opinion is many of those changes work for warhammer e.g. magic, legendary Lords etc but don't work for other settings the same way.
Sorry to but in, but the popularity argument everyone makes is absolutely absurd to me. A game’s popularity equals its quality? Then tell me, where was that quality with Starfield? The game that everybody and their mother was hyped about, the game that won Steam’s most innovative game of the year award (steam awards are popularity contests), the game that fans immediately set to ignore or attack criticisms against it during launch. I ask again, where was the quality in the most barren, least developed, most apathetically curated game Bethesda has made to date? Apologies for the heat, my disdain for the game coated my argument. But another point is that to say popularity equals high quality also demeans unpopular games of high quality. Take the soulsborne series, for one instance. Elden Ring may be the most popular game of the series, one that even the mainstream gamers had to acknowledge. But, by your argument, such a thing was nigh impossible, because the base formula was horrendous. Demon’s Souls, the progenitor of all modern Souls games, was an objective market failure. The only profits the game made was after its launch, when Altus published the game in the West, making it a small cult classic in the gaming industry. Bottom line is, the game was unpopular. But was it *bad* ? If anything, the success of Elden Ring, a game that shares much of its base formula with Demon’s Souls, says otherwise. So… the popularity argument doesn’t really mean much?
@@isaacpresley717 Popularity and reception is not just popularity. Millions bought Starfield and went "meh." Millions bought Warhammer 2 and went "wow."
Same! I bought the game after Legends made a video on it, and im having a blast! Its my first Age of wonders game, and I already enjoy the turn based combat much more compared to TW real time combat
@ i dont like the provence aspect of it. I liked ploping down my base anywhere i wanted. I also liked my units didnt have a xp cap so taking low tier units that survived into lategame was my dealbreaker.
They sound jealous of your WH3 success, they can’t understand your success bc they think it’s an objectively bad game. If you didn’t enjoy this game you wouldn’t have poured 10k hours into it. “The potential of the battlefield” is just dumb a unit of tier one spearman will never beat a bloodthirster, it’s a giant demon versus men the applications of the real world don’t apply to fantasy war. My campaigns are full of fun battles why should their objectively bad time affect the community? All in all they said their battle were boring and objectively bad and only gave personal experience rather than real points.
Volound: Shogun 2 gameplay Pixelated: Medieval 2, Shogun 2 and Empire gameplay Legend: Here's me face Lmaoo Also regarding the discussion I think I agree with Pixie and maybe you should develop more what you enjoy about Warhammer 3 ? Because all I understood was that you enjoy it because they have flaws and you enjoy exploiting flaws but do not enjoy playing the game as intended... Isn't it a sign of it being a bad game if playing it as intended isn't fun ? For example: I play Medieval 2 as intended and I have fun, I ignore the flaws because eventho I could exploit them it would quickly ruin my fun and bore me... Whereas in Warhammer 3 if I play the game as intended I find myself bored really quickly and I use the flaws to distract myself To me it shows that Medieval 2 is a good game as it standard gameplay doesn't bore whereas Warhammer 3 is a bad game as it's standard "way of playing" bores me around turn 30/40 and I need to find some distracting flaws to keep me playing
"playing the game as intended" people told me I "didn't actually complete Elden Ring cause I used magic" and that "I am a R***** for using only pistol" in Ultrakill. The ONLY correct way to play the game is HOW YOU LIKE IT TO PLAY Exploit? Sure. Melee spam? Sure. Only artillery? Why not? It's about fun, not "the intended way" otherwise you're going to turn into CA balance crew who see someone make a fun video that does something, see it spread across forums and either nerf it or straight out remove it from the game cause "people are not having fun ThE wAy We InTeNdEd It To Be PlAyEd" The intended way to play the game, is to play the game. That's it. Enjoy it instead of telling others how they should play or you'd end up hit in the face by some random in a bar for telling him "that he's not playing darts the way you INTENDED him to play it"
To me it's clear that the fantasy aspect, in particular the incredibly popular WARHAMMER side of the game, is enough to carry many aspects that were arguably done better in other Total War games. Yet the appeal of the fantasy was not mentioned at all in this discussion.
Feels that way ngl, which is a shame since I kinda found that a bit funny in part 1, but it got a bit old in part 2, and in part 3 it got a bit annoying. I played Warhammer and didn't like it mainly because of the battles (magic and flying units just don't appeal to me, at least the way its done in Warhammer), but its not really an objectively bad game. Its just that its currently the money maker of a really greedy company as of now.
Why is Volound even here, he's not there to debate. He is only there to talk sh*t about warhammer and to make fun of it. I appreciate Apollo atleast wanting to understand but Velound is just a spiteful dude huffing nostalgia.
Never heard about Volund, thanks for participating but let people talk ffs. It made me want to listen more of you on podcasts Legend. Laidback, mature, interesting perspective, good social skills ( ahum ) always bits of things that work past videogames. It's a good skill to have. Thanks guys.
@@H0kram Volound was on his best behavior here, because he wasn't trying to brigade legend with his discord, since he's banned from reddit and total war forums. It's genuinely amazing how cruel and toxic he is.
This volound guy, is he even a human person, his entire life is about hating a gaming company..... remove that from him, this guy is an empty shell deluded of reason. I can understand covering large amounts of drama but i dont understand how some popular figures can ever only use their visiblity and skill to create terrible content that just shows off how miserable they are
I think you needed to give more positive examples, the character upgrade mechanics, how you can customise lords, the huge breadth of different ways to play, different races and characters, the fluff, the lore and how to recreate it in game. The same as they like to play historically, and re create, you can do it in game...
A lot of the disagreement just seems to be because Legend is a much more open minded kind of person and is better at seeing things from other people's points of view
Volound and Apollo are totally right, I can see the point of Legend as well. However, what bothers me is the audience. If the majority does not criticize the next game that CA will do will be a total crap. I am a historical fan and I have a problem with the fantasy stuff, but thats my opinion. However, liking and agreeing is not the way and it was also not the way that drives the worlds progress in general. The lesser the critic, the worst the product.
Part of the reason I keep coming back to you Legend is your ability to take other perspectives, to at least try to see other sides of arguments, and to admit when you’re wrong. I don’t know either of these two, but trying to have a conversation with them seems exhausting. They seem to confuse rampant criticality with actual criticism in this video. Like undergrads who are just learning how to deconstruct ideas for the first time. “Whoa, guys, what if this thing we thought was good, actually wasn’t?”. There’s a fine line between “this thing is bad and you should hate it as much as me” and “I don’t like this thing”. You do a good job of walking that line and trying to find out what people other than yourself think. Keep doing that.
Volound is such a frustrating character, came across his videos years ago and was quite happy to see someone holding CA accountable for their lack of quality control etc… but man by the 3rd video or so it was getting difficult to not trip on his massive ego. It took me a day to realise he doesn’t attempt to be objective, he just voices his opinion and decides it’s the correct one.
Legend can't judge the game objectively. But neither are PA and Volound. And when people try to convince you their subjective opinion is objective, they sounds really annoying.
I've watched all 3, I think voland and Apollo are really just historical players, who didn't grow up with Warhammer, and just can't like it.... They are also upset that CA has had success with Warhammer, and have ignored the historical games that they like.... If it was a crap game, it wouldn't sell, and in their minds, they cant see the attraction... I think they are purposely refusing to like it in principle.... To me its like when Warhammer fantasy was killed, i just refused to play Age of Sigmar, despite it eventually being very successful.... They simply can't comprehend
I Think vast majority of old player base hate comes from fact that it does not play like older TW titles as it shifted from formations and morale heavy to stats and heroes. And so when they try bring their tactics from older titles it completely fails evrey time and they end up confused where it goes wrong. I had that phase until I realized how different TW warhammer is from other titles. Best way to figure it out is to play medieval2: Botet warhammer mod and modern TW titles to see the major difference. Legend was also repeating same point in 3 videos. "Its diffferent thing and i like it." In nutshell
Legend also started as historical player, his old playthroughs of historical TWs can still be found on his channel, and he still likes some historical games that he considers good. The difference is Legend found good in WH, and that made his a fan of fantasy too.
I have to admit, the other 2 people really started to piss me off as the time went on. There is nothing wrong with someone no liking something. But to say things like "the game is objectively bad" and try to get you admit it pissed me off because it is not "objectively" subjectively yes but objectively no. I know for a fact that Volound has said things like Warhammer is bad because it is missing 'x feature' and I think "fuck that, I hope that feature never returns, that would make the game so much worse" because I played with that feature in other Total War games and I hated it.
Unironically more people would agree with Volound if he didn’t talk like an arrogant resentful nerd. I say this as someone who agrees with almost everything he says about TW
"Id rather get 50% of what i want than push for 100% or nothing." Well said. You cant fix problems that were created over the course of years overnight. It takes time and compromise.
Legend is right its not objectively bad game, it has bad elements that could be addressed and fixed. The monetization of the game sucks to do failures in other areas of sega
The monetization point really baffles me honestly. Do they really think that's Warhammer 3's fault as a game, something that is happening in the entire game's industry? Is the inclusion of wizards in Total War game to blame for DLC prices being ramped up? Genuinely a wild point to even bring up
This entire talk showed how bad Legend is at articulating complex opinions. Or even simple things. Like, Apollo is asking directly “what’s good about Warhammer” and Legend, instead of talking about what he has been saying on his streams, in his videos, in his campaign reviews for some reason, starts dancing around questions and talking about “eat up piggies”, “monkey picking it’s ass” and making terrible analogies. I’m so confused.
If i remember at one moment he perfectly experssed himself at part 1. "TW warhammer is different and I like it but I wouldnt any more warhammers" This mainly refrences how warhammer is focused on heroes and how much different is gameplay due to many other changes compared to medieval total war 2.
Its because Legend doesnt want to say anything specific thats good about warhammer here because he knows the reaction...so magic,crazy units, multiplayer domination/conquest modes or graphics or campaign mechanics he wont mention here.
I'll try to answer your reasoning with a question: What reaction do you expect from volound and apollo if he told them what was good with tw3 ? (tip: They think its shit)
Volound was constantly trying to manipulate Legend into being degrading to the overall playerbase. So toxic it’s unreal. He is the walking example of “your message may be correct but if you’re going to be shouting it at me, I don’t wanna know” These are games! Games ffs! Go outside!
I feel like getting Volund on was a detriment, since he done nothing but interrupt and try to force his opinion which could summarized as "TW is shit now". He can think whatever he wants, it is just not a stance worth 3 hours of discussion.
Main problem with TW is.. People often incorrectly think it's fantasy vs historcial but often it's rather Modern TW game engine vs Old engine. Just play warhammer beggining of end times mod for medieval total war 2. Mod that Legend really loves. Try to fight there same way as you fight in modern TW, youd most likely lose as it plays completely differently. Legend also likes how different TW warhammer is from other titles, despite the maaany flaws, but he wouldnt want new TW to be like that too and weve seen how badly it ended when they tried to mash hero system into TW title where it does not belong to. in end it boils to Warhammer BOTET med2: Historical combat based on formations, morale, terrain with masive armies and strong fantasy elements. modern warhammer: Hero based, fast paced, squad like combat with smaller scale.
I agree that the real issue is the engine. The things that people complain about were there before Warhammer. And they persist in games since Warhammer.
Warhammer 3 is a good game and the fact that its different is a good thing. Making the same game 10 times in a row is pointless even if it has 'perfect mechanics'.
I really don't like the way apollo puts down warhammer players or people who enjoy the fantasy total war games. The "historical" fan base has become so toxic that I want nothing to do with them
Id like to correct that apollo does not put down fantasy. He just dislikes the engine and mechanics that come with warhammer TW. Lets not mix up hate for game for hate for fantasy genre or warhammer, mainly because appolo loves warhammer and fantasy.
There’s nothing wrong with fantasy he’s talking about warhammer which is a stripped down of all the features and just sells u legendary lords. U guys need to watch the whole podcast not just legends video because his is part 3 he agreed with most things they said until the end. Warhammer has no. Navel combat. Mercenary system. Horrible building mechanic. Less immersive and unique traits for generals. No family tree. No troop formation. No building watch towers and forts. Worse sieges. A complete absence of realistic morale. All of these things is missing but they sell u reskin units like black orcs with shields and u accept it and I think that’s where the problem is. I played mostly older total wars but then I did get into warhammer and have bought everything and recently went back to med 2 and realized how much garbage shit I bought for warhammer and how not good it is, unless I’m playing with friends
@@jamescooke7243 yes bro because u guys have stripped features and when people complain and say the game is stripped of content u guys defend it like crazy and then buy the next minimum effort dlc that adds a unit but this time with a shield or a new legendary lords that makes his peasants get +2 melee attack
@@omidtabrizi-e2z did you consider some of those things were changed on purpose? Like how a family system would work in an already made IP? Of course you didn't. What building mechanics? No need for mercenaries in this franchise because its not lore friendly apart from the ogres which they just added the mercenary mechanics for. Realistic morale in a warhammer fantasy game? Sieges suck so ill give you that. And no, we didn't just accept new reskins. That's why ca has stepped up recently. Because of the backlash from warhammer players
I have to say listening to this is painful, you're being civil and trying to discuss stuff while the other two are trying to interrogate you. And before anyone starts defending apollo and Volund, I used to watch both back in the day, and got simply bored. I used to play medieval 2 and Rome 1, those were my first games, yet I also enjoy TWW, and trying to throw mud at me because I like playing a game in a setting I like is not very nice.
'Warhammer is objectively bad' my god, only children use that. If something is objectively bad then *nobody* would play it. Anthem is a good example of something ObJecTiVeLy bad, but even that had some players.
You can like objectively bad things. My Summer Car for example. It looks worse than a ps1 game and is buggy and finicky. Many gameplay feature were deliberately designed and implemented to be as annoying, tedious and inconvenient as possible. And yet I and many others love it dearly.
Hey Legend just dropping in after watching the 3 videos, I appreciate the way you engage in this conversation with nuance and patience. You've gotten better at conveying your ideas and emotions calmly (dad buff?) so your position can be seen more clearly. I do think though you're trying to meet people halfway when they aren't going to move. Keep up the great work (and cheese for the cheese god!)
I really like pixelated appolos videos, I actually started playing total war by seeing the third age videos of him, now I am over 1k hours in wh3 loving the game. I think pixelated appolo is sad because there will be no good historical total war from now
I checked comments and often they misunderstand him as fantasy hater when appolo loves both fantasy and warhammer Its just that he dislikes game engine and mechanics around TW: Warhammer. Dislike for TW: Warhammer =/= dislike for warhammer fantasy .
@@benfromthesewers1688 these guys won't understand that ben. They have paid GW the cost of a home over decades and will do anything to defend their "investments". Its crazy, I spend tons of money on stupid shit.....and have no problem saying its shit....and its stupid.
He is not sad because there will not be a good historical total war, he is sad because there will be no good total war anymore. The divide of History v fantasy is a red herring propagated by CA themselves. They want you to he divided so the playerbase cannot rally and unify to make them answer for their crap.
"Warhammer 3 is objectively bad because the monetization system was not always good" is a big, BIG leap of logic that just doesn't make sense. I'm tired for LoTW having to deal with that kind of fallacious argument, poor guy
Exactly this. I didn't know wizards being included into a Total War game was to blame for the entire games' industry aggressive monetization strategy towards consumers over the past like 2 decades. Genuinely a baffling point.
i just hope future total wars bring back unit formations i genuinely missed that in the warhammer saga but nobody seems to mention how warhammer added magic to total war, which was an entirely new mechanic
40:30 when you realise you're stuck in a looping conversation with guys that are hardstuck on an anti-fantasy mindset, and as long as total war doesn't meet their demands based on game makes in 2002, they will believe total war is doomed man these guys are fossils, all their arguments are based on games made centuries ago that have barely any features or depth. the points about battles are easily solveable with a few game balancing mods for the total war saga and yet they act like its the end of total war its low key getting frustrating
@@unowno123 First, you got your date completely wrong, and now admit your point about "anti fantasy" isn't true. Second, the battles are not serviceable with mods in terms of being any sort of realistic representation of what a believable or tactically interesting battle would look like, I was a Modder for Warhammer and did several popular ones for sieges, but its very limited with what can be achieved outside of basic stat changes. The engine has been a major problem in the battles since warscape was created, and they want those problems that are now over 12 years old actually addressed.
A way to think more clearly about this is by framing it within the larger philosophical topic of objectivity in aesthetics. Compare Chess and Tic-tac-toe. What can you say about them? Subjectively, you can say you prefer one or another. But there are also measurable things you can say about both that are objective.
I hate drama. I especially hate manifactured drama from people who dont even play the game. I am making this comment around 26 mins into the video. Other 2 dudes just want you to say " Warhammer bad, fanatasy bad" to make themselves feel better. At this point i hope we get WH:40K next instead of a historical title :D
You didn't realy watch past 2 parts? Appollo loves fantasy but hates how TWW works mechanic wise same for Volund but he's extreme and even at times nonsenical about it and lost all hope. Main problem is not fantasy vs historical but rather how games function. Even legend doesn't consider it as real TW game but rather hero focused game and he enjoys it and loves to break it. I much prefer beggining of end times mod for medieval total war 2 over TW:Warhammer
@@benfromthesewers1688 No i would rather not give clicks to their videos. They sound disingenuous with their concerns over TW. I cant take anyone who claims " Warhammer is not a real TW game" seriously.
@@SergeantSon The thing I wanted to point out is major difference between classic Total war title and Total war warhammer titles. In the end they are total war titles but play differently. Its like Dawn of war 1 and Dawn of war 2 situation and many people for some reason can not see it that way. Volound is just ego pro hater and Appolo kinda doesnt understand Warhammer titles due to difference gameplay wise but hes a good dude and often agree with each other but Volound is the odd one in videos.
@@SergeantSon I don't know about Volund aside from what the comment section has been spoiling me about his lore, but Pixel's chill and didn't make his living trashing another game, in his channel he just sticks to the games he like, even plays fantasy mods like that of LoTR or GoT settings.
@SergeantSon What kind of BS mentality is that? "Oh I don't want to give them clicks" No, idiot, it's a whole 2 thirds of the discussion that you're actively ignoring because you're more comfortable taking your "favorites side" instead of engaging in the whole conversation. Get off your high horse, your just being petty.
If normal people have to perform all of the unnatural, un-irl, contortions Legend has to perform in order to win a battle then "Total War" has lost the plot and made the game to rediculous to play.
Legend, your interlocutors are not honest actors, they are never open to other people's opinions and just want you to say they are right... They aren't worth your time... They also know or understand nothing about the world in general, based on their opinions of what a gaming streamer needs to be or their opinion of "corn"...
Really enjoyed the conversation u guys had but, after reading some of the comments, I feel like most ppl didn't or don't want to understand the different povs, just silly attacks on anyone's character and exacerbated stan culture, but hey, that's on me, I shouldn't scroll down in the 1st place.
most of the hate volound gets is for his history of being one of the most toxic youtubers on the entire platform, and not so much how he acted in this video, which, there were problems with but for him, was extremely tame in comparison to how he normally acts
36:49 Case and point look at Atilla. Amazing battles dog shit campaign. Didn't do that very well. Admittedly there's also performance issues but i think that Atilla's failing is mostly in the Campaign side of things. I get the vision and it's cool but i think the implementation could have been better.
![Limmy Twitch | Dead Island 2 (2) [2024-11-12]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8dnYG7LOAbI/mqdefault.jpg)
Just to add a bit of context. I asked both Pixelated Apollo and Volound to not hold anything back and to challenge me about why I like Warhammer 3. It was confronting but it was what I asked them to do. There was no bad blood between us during the whole conversation and we walked away virtually shaking hands.
Cool, we don't care, there are better people you can collab with that are TW players and have better conversations about pros/cons about the games and everything in between. Stop giving clowns the platform.
@LegendofTotalWar You stood your ground and defended the game you like against the other guys, so hats off to you, Legend. I think the way you go about sending a message to CA about what they should fix is way better than the blind hate Apollo and especially Volound are spreading.
That was not really a issue, the real issue was that they confronted you about why they disliked WH3, and instead of offering your own perspective, you simply agreed with them. You never shared why you enjoyed the game, which is why they kept asking why you liked it. On streams and in videos, you’ve given plenty of reasons why you enjoy WH3, but in this podcast, the only thing you mentioned was that breaking the game is fun, which isn’t exactly a positive take.
@@LegendofTotalWar People are taking it a bit too I don’t know how to say it personally or seriously, like getting offended, I found it entertaining content with Volound playing the aggressor, Apollo playing the guy who’s on the sides chucking the ideas and you playing the balanced straight man who puts it in orderly fashion. Good content.
It wouldn’t be entertaining if everyone played the safe balanced role or the aggressive role people need to take that into account before taking it to heart
Sorry but this is a horrible take that makes you look like an insincere person that actually tacitly agrees with 2 people who constantly call Warhammer games shit. Your tier videos explained it much better.
LoTW here, and today we have a very special saving your disaster situation. We are facing 4 full stacks of Pixalated Apollo´s Knights and there is also Volound in the mix there, who is pretty strong and we don´t wanna get close and personal with him. As per usual, we have a load of crap to defend ourselves, we were caught in force march, so we are going to have to cheese our way ouy of here. Anyway, let´s jump right into it and let´s see what we can do.
Now for real, the first 2 parts were brilliant, and I´m sure this one will be too. Thank you all 3 for making this happen!
This was too good😭
This trilogy was not that brilliant, almost nothing of importance was really said other than "CA bad, go back to the old games cuz they were good, new games are bad," Legend not really defending himself on why he disagreed outside of "I like to cheese and there's a lot of it" (which is fair, but apparently neither Apollo or Volound wanted to concede the point out of ignorance or bias, take your pick), like half the time it was them trying to goad Legend into saying "so it's shit then, admit it," or just being entirely apathetic to outright pretentious in Apollo's case about people making a career out of newer TW games.
And we all know CA's bad. That's not new.
Listening to Legend over the years going from mouthy Aussie with an attitude, to a mouthy Aussie who is much kinder with an attitude, brings a smile to my face.
It’s always a shock to my system when I go back to super old videos. Sometimes I forget how bad mouthed he used to be
Isn't he south african? From the accent i assumed he was a saffy not an aussie
From some of his words and pronunciations id say hes from Queensland
@@cr0mag732 For some reason I thought he was from Adelaide, I can't remember if he said it on stream once or if I just assumed that.
@@wolfie54321 Pretty sure he's based in Brissie
Props to you legend for being well spoken and super respectful. Good for you for sticking to your opinions.
This was a nice reminder of a big reason I watch Legend. It's rare to find people who excel at a game who is also welcoming to people who are not good at the game. Who understand that their viewers are more casual players than them.
strategy games have often that problem
goddamn trying to get into i gonna call it "casual competitive" is in some games hard
you gonna get stomped and hated on bc you suck but you gonna barely find info and people to get good in it
@@scrollexdestiny Finding a good and humble person beat you in a strategy game and then give you tips on stuff is the best feeling ever. Especially if you're on a loss streak or something and the help is genuinely helpful, just like a fundamental thing you hadn't picked up on or something, and you start winning because of it.
Volound is a bit of a egomaniac. What hes doing is virtuous? A youtubers job is to make content, the audience will decide the rest
He's got an ego sure... but he's also right about Total War.
@@spiffygonzales5160 he is often right about Total War, yes, and some of his analysis is excellent. But his personality is horribly toxic. I can't listen to him, even when he's right, because he's so desperately insufferable.
RUclips is a website on which anyone can upload videos, its their own business what they try to achieve with it. I highly doubt Volound is in it for the money and making "content". See any of his videos.
Yeah he sounds like raging virgin sometimes
@@BittermanAndy yeah its just not total war hes weird about, he goes on political rambles on twitter a lot, seems like all round hes just a miserable fuck
"Its your duty as a youtuber"
Dude, piss off. You do whatever the hell you want on your own channel. The audience will decide.
He voted for the SNP mate, enough said 😂
the "u have a platformmmmm u must do this" take is so fkin annoying and dumb.
"just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good".
This is what we call cope.
A game that no one plays is worse than a game everybody plays sorry.
Especially since both are equally accessible.
@@loowick4074 Definitely not. You're confusing success with quality. Particularly with single player games where your game is not affected by other people. There can be objective problems with games (bugs, glitches, terrible balance) that make a game bad. You can enjoy a game whilst acknowledging that it is poor quality (which Legend does).
@@trajanthegreat2928 yeah but with PA the intent was more that total warhammer 3 is a bad game irrelevant of player count or retention
Elich once said something very accurate regarding Volund, he said the Man is forever stuck in 2012 he cannot let go or move on
Some people do seem incapable of change(for the better). Their ego will not let them...and if that ego is not placated they'll more often than not go on a downward trajectory.
He's Walter from 'The Big Lebowski'. Every time I hear him talk about Total War I'm reminded of the scene where The Dude tells Walter, "You're not wrong, Walter, you're just a fucking asshole!"
This makes me respect Legend a lot. Being able to maintain that level of calm in a conversation with Volound is commendable.
not everyone likes to play games on the hardest difficulty. most people play games on normal difficulty and enjoy what the game has to offer. not get frustrated or things by playing it on the hardest difficulty.
tbh on some games the game is at its best at the harder difficulties and vise verca but i get what you mean
some people want to relax
Casual gamers dont wanna spend 45 minutes in 1 battle and end up losing it in the end, so thes either play at lower difficulty or send save file to legend
Personally, i dont wanna spend 6 hours and be on turn 10 or 15
It's Legend himself during a live who answered me and unlocked my stubborned attitude about frustrating campaigns 😂
I was looking for tips but he saw through it, that I was getting stressed out by the game. And basically told me why do you keep pushing on frustrating campaigns in the first place, instead of launching a new one.
I had no answer to that, my focus was somewhat making a perfect campaign, slowly turning into an angry micromanager as challenges ( and bullshit AI ) were getting bigger.
Ironically I play at a higher difficulty than I used to now, but I take my losses and it's well balanced between challenges and rewards. And when I'm done, I'm done.
i play exclusively on the highest difficulties, i think it's fun even during its frustrations, but... MOST people don't play on high difficulty. If you play on Very Hard/Legendary you are in the OVERWHELMING minority of players.
And tbh many games respect your time so much more playing on normal difficulty. Many games, their "hard" modes simply take longer, they aren't really more "difficult" ... Bethesda style stat-buffing difficulty.
It’s not a difficulty though. It’s just cheats the AI gets because they can’t program the AI better. And the combat those cheats you have to use games strats that don’t make sense in a normal game
Volound is so toxic that even when he makes a good point he will then undercut that point by being the most self important whining little snot.
He really is bitter that a game he doesn't like is successful.
But is he right?
Yeah, he's actually quite smart, just also completely insufferable.
@@TheSuperappelflapon some things yeah, but it's at the point where if you disagree with one thing he just sees you as a mortal enemy.
Like i don't mind much the hp system if the numbers are correct.
Like what's the difference if I have 2 wounds and 1 attack versus having 20 hp and 10 attack.
It's still a 2 shot in both situations
@loowick4074 the difference is between most units having one hit point and a chance of dying to an attack Vs having a number of hitpoints and knowing how many hits they can tank.
One is better suited for more realistic games and the other is more suited for fantasy games.
I used to watch volound but he got rather toxic and he mauled me in the comment section of one of his videos, I don't remember which one.
Very angry fellow.
You had a civil discussion with him? Guess he has gotten better?
Funny thing is I agree with like 70% of what he says, but the 30% i disagree with him I disagree with him very hard.
Yeah, Volound is the most toxic RUclipsr I've ever seen. Can't stand the guy.
Yeah he’s got a very “my way of the highway” attitude when it comes to opinions on total war
Watching the vid he's actually pleasant to listen too when he isn't smashing CA or someone into the ground repeatedly in a rant.
clearly very angry, its like he thinks a good modern total war game is a human rights issue
He has not gotten better. I was in the same position as you. He saves his civility *only* for people he admires of higher social standing in his malformed worldview.
i wish volound would just let people speak.
Guy is in love with the sound of his own voice
@@paddya3304too bad it’s almost impossible to understand wtf he’s trying to say
@@shmekelfreckles8157 I'm Scottish so it's easy for me to understand. Don't worry, he's mostly talking pish, you're not missing much. 'In love with the sound of your own voice' has nothing to do with accent.. it's basically someone who loves talking but doesn't listen to other people. A narcissist in other words.
Damn Volound really believes that his way of making content is objectively correct and everyone else is just wrong
A very biased person
Insufferable.
@@ZESTdabestYou were one letter away from having an objectively bad opinion. 😂
Volound is annoying communist vegan, so is that a surprise?
Which is bold considering the subscriber counts of the guys he's talking to compared to his
All this whole conversation turned into was Volond and PA saying TWW is shit say the game is shit Legend. It's really Pathetic
They literally started calling WH3 porn, fast food and poison.
Dude sorry but I had to stop watching this. Volund is so annoying and won't stop bitching. Like you keep trying to push the conversation, but volund just keeps butting in and being constantly negative. Never heard that guy before but 5 minutes in and I can't stand him
Mocking legend for even mentioning the campaign sealed the deal for me.
@@wufang It's far worse than it seems. He is on his best behavior here, as mind-boggling as that seems.
@@TheRealCalPerr right? Campaign is, like, literally half the game - more, in terms of time spent. The entire POINT of Total War is that it's a mix of turn-based campaign and real-time battles. Why would anyone want to exclude half the game from the conversation?
Volound is one the most obsessively toxic content creators on youtube, period. I see no reason to give someone with that attitude any time of day.
Hands down my least favorite thing Legend has done with his channel in the last 8 years has been any time he platforms Volound.
@@Anonie324 glad I'm not the only one who sees it that way!
@@Anonie324 Nah fuck that, he needs to be platformed, especially by Legend. They guys been waging war on the series for years and shitstirring. Legend talking to him sets out where everyone stands and forces Legend to consider where he sits. Volound attacks basically every WH youtuber except him for some reason and acts wierdly sychophantic. But having them come to blows at least makes the waters less muddied. I hope after this, we won't have such a dumb passive tolerance of Volound's nonsense.
@melo7038 I didn't even know the guy existed, let alone have so much lore damn.
@@melo7038 Hmm. Decent point. Destiny platforming JonTron showed us all that the accusations of racism were actually massive understatements lol. Still, I'd rather it not happen more than a couple times, otherwise it's functionally a megaphone.
I don't watch Volund or his content, but ten minutes in this video, all I hear is an underclassmen desperately trying to impress an upperclassmen. Most of the time, Volund either trying or baiting Legend into more extremist takes; while Legend is mostly apathic or generalist.
Volund clearly admires Legend, his reach, his content, and seniority. but his vitriol for CA blinds him so much, it turns the conversation slightly combative. To the point where Legend has to play referee and remind him that they are outliers and their experiences with Total War are not the de-facto opinion.
You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes on Volound's antisocial behavior. He behaves inexcusably to people who disagree with him, unless they're Legend, honestly, because he just wants Legend to parrot him for a broader audience. He's gone on record, many times, saying that people that like TWW are genuinely and literally stupid.
@@Anonie324and he is… right
You people have ruined the franchise by paying for these crap games, overpriced dlcs and giving CA (a terrible company) a pass on mediocrity
@@arturg3333”you people” lmfao
@@pootisspencer5492enjoy that masterpiece where gunners don’t even have reload animations and don’t require a line of sight to fire 😂
@@arturg3333 the cope has turned into seethe
Volound is so hard to listen to without being angry at him. He seems way too egoistical and selfish, I have no idea how did he make it this long. And I am not even talking about things they said, I genuinely had hard time listening to him when his time came, and not to mention, he cuts people so often, I have no idea how people do not lose respect for someone like him instantly.
The guys passionate about total war, and he’s angry about the simplification of it. I mean, are you passionate about anything? Or are you an empty husk? I have no respect for a lot of total war fans because they’ve let it fall into such disarray, a lot of you are just in the consume product, and then getting excited for next product.
The most pathetic thing about Volound is that he spend his life spitting on games, and people enjoying them; that he doesnt play anymore. He even flame random people's replies on reddit and YT by sharing them in his subreddit and discord. I don't see the point of having him in here, he's the avatar of toxicity in video gaming. Whenever he speaks it's just to display his elitism and vulgarity in this podcast
Exactly, he's become that meme with the 2 people playing and enjoying a video game that the 3rd person doesn't like as he watches and screams "QUIT HAVING FUN!"
Volound is seriously a remarkably awful personality. Dude is mean, bitter, dismissive, intrusive, and his beliefs get worse, the more you learn. I subbed to him back in like 2012, because of how damn good he is at Shogun 2. Eventually, I couldn't take it anymore.
@@CrèmeTropBrûlée buddy is trying to get u guys better games with more mechanics. I wish warhammer had all the features of med 2 and I play warhammer 3 and it’s very boring unless I play with friends it’s missing so many features i need to try and mod in he’s correct u guys just don’t like criticism on ur favorite game but the criticism isn’t there just to say warhammer is shit. He’s been saying the games have been bad since Rome 2 which is true AI is stupid the original founders left the game design keeps getting more and more simplified and aimed at selling u dlc
@@omidtabrizi-e2z this is truly a reddit-level take, absolutely braindead
@@shmekelfreckles8157 lol okay buddy whatever helps u sleep at night
Right from the very start, Volound going straight in with "MY way is the RIGHT way and there IS NO other way" when Legend ever-so-gently challenges him on whether teaching people to play well should be the ONLY goal for Total War RUclipsrs.
He doesn't get any less toxic, does he? Not listening to any more than that, the man is an absolute child.
Ya he does seem pretty rigid in his belief. He thinks there's only 5 ways to play the game. Easy, medium, hard, very hard and legendary.
The irony is by protesting to not listen anymore, you are acting like a child. Throw away the ego and bias and listen to the conversation. Even your username is a hypocrite lol.
@@Dayz3O6 no, I just don't waste time doing things I don't enjoy, because that would be a waste. But keep sucking off a complete stranger in your parasocial relationship with someone who doesn't know you and doesn't care about you.
@@Dayz3O6 well, Volound certainly isn't presenting himself very well.
@@Dayz3O6 It's not childish to refrain from looking for gems in a garbage heap. There might be some but then again, there might not.
This is a video of 2 people trying to convince a guy that the thing he likes is bad and he shouldn't like it
Yeah. It felt like Legend came to talk and they came to win their argument.
It is a cognitive dissonance for them to comprehend an intelligent and talented person enjoys the game, to them, only idiots like it.
@@badrhetoric5637 The part where they started equating WH3 to fast food, porn and even "poison" was insanely insulting.
If you've watched the previous two, he agrees that it's bad. They're trying to understand why he likes it despite that.
It's beyond me how someone like Volound can be so devoid of empathy that he cannot understand that there are people playing games for escapism and immersion. So he derives his fun from challenge. Good for him! Other people who place less emphasis on challenge and more on immersion have the right to be here too. I don't see any reason why we should treat the selfish bastard with any more regard than he gives to those he disagrees with.
I've been following the guy for over 12 years now. He is emotionally crippled.
Exactly, it baffles me how much Volound and Apollo hate TW Warhammer and its fanbase.
@@Anonie324 I mean, why follow him then?
@@chrisjackson1215 I subbed to him back in 2012 because he is genuinely a god tier mastermind at Shogun 2. When I was 19, his edgy humor spoke more to me. His critiques of Rome II, and its horrible launch, also hit home, and prevented me from preorder disappointment. But his negativity only got worse, starting in 2014, and I finally unsubbed about 2 years ago when I couldn't take it anymore, though I'd been avoiding his videos for longer than that. When I posted my comment to that effect on the video that broke my spirit, his response was cruel, childish, shallow, dismissive, and wrote me off as a shill/mental defective who was too stupid to recognize that Warhammer was a stupid game that only stupid people could like. The only times he's come back up since then are when Legend, to my irritation, platforms him.
@@Anonie324I had an almost identical experience when I started calling him out for spreading anti-democratic, Pro-Kremlin propaganda on his second channel after the liberation of Bucha and documentation of Russian War Crimes.
volound has such a hate for the fantasy side of total war and is so jaded that he would never be able to admit that there is anything good about total warhammer. his biases make him kinda dumb on the topic. hes hated by a lot of the community for valid reasons. this doesnt make him entirely wrong, but his viewpoints are definitely skewed in the wrong directions
But what realy is good about it?
Dont get me wrong all Tw Games are flawed and some more then the other.
I Love Warhammer since u played Shadow of the hornet Rat in ps1.
One of my Most played mods Is call of warhammer for medieval 2.
I bought tww 1+2 super cheap and barely forcef myself to get 50 hours in the clock
It Looks good, so i would give you that Point, but everything else is ok at best.
Dlc infested and overpriced as fuck. You dont even get full faction rosters for the Main Game factions without buying several dlcs.
Siegebattles are such a letdown. A.i ist dumb and Cheats way too much in vh.
The normal Battles are fast and dont feel meaty and impactful.
Recruiting and town building are also underwhelming and super simple.
Maybe i Just cant connect with the newer tw Games. Different devs and such .
And as a wh Fan i can Understand why people Play tww, there ist realy much Out there.
But i Stick with the medieval 2 mods. 30 factions without spending 300 bucks.
@@nikallew50 I think the funnest part of fantasy is creating wacky armies. Stick in some giants or trolls, what about a gryphon knight? Hey that mage lord is very cool to let's blast some spells.
So the spectacle of the thing I guess, I play shogun 2 on the side too, but if I want to set up a cool spectacle fantasy has shogun beat and it's sadly not even close.
@@nikallew50 I like being able to play all these factions with lots of variety in roster and heroes and magic. I like that most LLs have unique campaign mechanics that mean I can have a different experience when I play them that isn't just a different starting position. I like that stuff looks really polished, and it feels very cool to me as a WHF fan to be able to go all over the map and then fight there. To me, I found late campaign town building extremely tedious in the older titles, when you managed to get an empire it felt like you micro-managed towns more than actually battling.
I did a lot of this in Call of Warhammer/BOTET before TWW came out so I know what you mean there too. Also I bought most of the DLC on sale for cheap, and over a long period of time so the price hasn't bothered me since I've played WH2-3 more than any other game I have. Don't get me wrong, I played total war from Rome back in the day too. There are good and bad things in the old and new total war, but for TWW I find it hard to really whine about because I enjoy it a lot.
@@nikallew50 firstly, youre not wrong about whats bad about it and dlc prices being nearly double the price that i would say is a good balance... but... this is a big game with a lot of attributes so i will state some things i find good about the game as you asked, tho i cant be bothered to try and list every little thing i find good about the game because that would be more time consuming than im willing to put into this comment
the game has 24 factions and 100+ lords to choose from that can fundamentally change how you play that faction on the campaign. each faction has at least 20 different units with some having like 40 and thats not including warriors/daemons of chaos which is 4 different factions splattered into one who have like 80 units. its common to find units that are just straight upgrades to others, and many can be only that, and basically are reskins of other units, but i find that completely acceptable as its realistic and adds depth to the rpg side of the game (units being straight upgrades or is essentially the same unit but with different weapons to serve a slightly different function of your army). that is so much more diversity than any other game i can think of that its bordering on absurd, and theyre going to add even more. yes, of course, again, many units, most even, are reskins of other units between all rosters, BUT thats so much more the case of historical games and way more diversity than any of the others offer. why would i want to play a game where its human faction vs all other human factions, and the diversity is spear unit, sword unit, archer unit, and cav unit, chariot unit, and artillery, but all look like the same humans with different clothes and stats when i can play warhammer that also adds flying units, monstrous units, single entity monsters, a whole magic system with like 30 different lores of magic, and in addition to that diversifies the reskins of the roster that you have giant rat men with nukes and machine guns, aztecan lizardmen that ride dinosaurs, undead, elves, dwarfs, orcs and goblins, ogres, giants etc AND makes them look great and realistic (watch a historian rate the armor and weapons of this game compared to real life, they did a terrific job on that front). THEN they somehow take these 24 factions with like a thousand different units and 100+ lords, and somehow makes it more balanced in multiplayer than games with 2-4 factions and like 30 units total; its kind of an insane achievement.
in addition to that, the warhammer fantasy lore is fantastic. this adds to the game specifically in terms of how factions and lords and units are balanced, and abilities they get, in addition to how the campaign looks feels and functions in some pretty clever ways. the cool factor is through the roof when all is said and done between unit, faction, and campaign map design and lore.
the game somehow takes all of this in, and lets you have battles with thousands of units on said battlefield, yet somehow still doesnt have ps1 graphics, and terrible animations and instead does amazingly well on both fronts. some animations are good enough to pass in games where you control only one unit. its not perfect and you can easily find units butting heads with other units hitboxes in janky ways, but its better than i would expect to be possible had i not known this game existed. the game is physicalized so well also. its not perfect and even sometimes janky on this front again, but it routinely amazes me how organic some parts of the battles function like cavalry movement and charges, doubly so if you consider the scope of the battles. its something id expect from a game where you yourself have access to a single unit with like 30 units total in combat once again.
usually in an rts game or grand campaign game, there will be factions i gravitate twards and stick to those, ill usually like 1-3 factions out of the 10 it has in a bigger game like this, (or 1 in the 3 or 4 in a smaller roster) but instead there is 2 factions i DONT like, and all the others i genuinely enjoy (with i think 3 factions i havent tried yet but eventually will), which is another feat i personally dont ever really see, tho some of the factions i like that do need some updating on specific things like lizardmens geomantic web, and the factions i dont like are just personal taste.
@@nikallew50 Theres a lot good about warhammer actually, the pricing is lame but Its why theres so much content. Just buy the dlcs on sale or a key reseller
Volound is a hack, please don't feature him anymore, your viewers will thank you
I imagine Volund sitting there with his arms crossed saying “I know you are but what am I?” Y’all spent half this pod talking past each other and not really listening to each other.
Volound is the kind of person who, regardless of them being right or wrong, have to be an insufferable asshole to everyone.
If Volound's ego took physical form, its mass and size would far exceed that of the entire Earth... I understand his dislike for CA, but he doesn't stop there and treats virtually the entire community of players of newer Total War games with hatred and contempt.
First, people who play a game are not a community. Second, r/totalwar is not a community. Third, newer Total War gamers are being extorted with lesser products and deserve better than toxic positivity. Fourth, if people were as critical to the government as they are with Volound, we'd be having flying cars by now.
Just had to pop in with my own reactions listening to him:
First five minutes: Jesus man, let Legend talk... and why are you going on about righteousness so much? And do you know what subjective means??
Nearing the end, after I read a comment about Apollo and Vol's channels being dead: What do you MEAN he has a Google Doc like a fucking CV with all the stuff he's 'done'?
@@giokun100wrong on all accounts. I assume you're a fanboy of his, in which case these comments must really sting 😂
Who are you to say what is and is not a community? Also I dont think that warhammer dlc are inferior product to older titles. Your last point is true tho haha
@@giokun100
Community is an incredibly broad term, you could define damn near any holders of a specific trait or interest as a community let alone a games playerbase, or a subreddit. Forums are one of the classic examples of an online community. Also baseless criticism doesn't push innovation, it usually does the opposite. Directed specific criticism is helpful, but if you think his form of criticism would lead us to flying cars then I'd like to point to the new US elect and cabinet which was largely created out of blunt unrefined criticism.
Lmao Volound saying he is virtuous for playing on the highest difficulty in a video game.
I'm convinced that dude is just an elaborate troll at this point
"virtue: a good or *useful* quality of a thing : a commendable quality or trait : merit : : a capacity to act :"
....are you familiar with word concept fallacies by chance?
@@crucibleclips and here, in to defend the other troll, is a pretentious argumentative person doing the same thing volound does.
Well done. Look at the context he said it in. He wasn't implying he had the capacity to play on legendary. He was saying it was his duty as if to imply there was a moral association with doing so.
@@kyleshuler2929 Duty does not carry moral obligation. It can be an obligatory task (absent morals) as well as conduct that must be shown to superiors (as in the audience).... Since you once again applied a word concept fallacy, I will now assert you were unaware of it. Please learn the language.
@crucibleclips look up the definition of moral and see how it lists virtuous in the definition. A virtue is something that is an inherently good trait or ability. There is NOTHING inherently good about playing a video game in any capacity. I'm done being trolled now, have a nice day.
Thank you for illustrating the exact kind of pretentious condescending people volound and his fans are though. Hopefully it keeps people away from his garbage channel.
@@crucibleclips
You criticize him for using a word concept fallacy, and yet your entire argument against it is built upon etymological fallacies, and passive aggressive ad hominem. Just because an argument contains a fallacy doesn't make it any less valid. Are you familiar with the fallacy fallacy by chance? Please learn the language.
Volound has been in the salty stage of grief for 10+ years
If Volound and Apollo got their "good" Total War, they'd still find something to moan about.
Volound may have some points about CA and TW gaming experience but he's also a foul and nasty person in his videos, posts, and politics. Platforming and engaging this guy is a mistake. He is delusional and unconvinceable of anything opposing his beliefs. I appreciate Legend is interested in genuine conversation and is a good advocate for the series and especially its fans but he's getting taken for a ride here and won't get anything like a genuine conversation with someone like Volound.
I couldn't agree more. Giving him any time is a categorical mistake. His opinions are functionally impossible to separate from his profoundly antisocial conduct.
THIS !!
For someone whose full time job is hating CA and praying for their games demise, it'd bode well for legend to distance himself from such ultra Toxic people..
I really dislike him, I wouldn't say it's a complete mistake, at least it will make an interesting discussion. Doomer and hater vibes with horrible choice in politics - he would be out of my social club and certainly not my friend. One thing is for sure, he isn't selling a persona, he is like that.
"don't platform" Oh so people with different opinions don't deserve to be heard? Tell me you're a redditor without telling me you're a redditor.
@@kitoharveywill5766 not every opinion is worth respecting or listening to even if presented well, earnestly, or kindly. I don't think the German Nazis of the 30s-40s had opinions worth listening to and they shouldn't have been given any legitimacy or platform to spread their opinions. I think volound has some points but he's clouded by arrogance and seething hatred in his analysis and most of his opinions are heavily based on these feelings which compromise their value. I'm sorry if you think we should listen to lunacy and vitriol just because. That is incredibly stupid
Pixalated Apollo and Volound just mad because their youtube channels are basically dead and they blaming warhammer, CA and "stupid" players who enjoin playing it its just pathetic behavior from fail content creator
Saying Pixel's channel is dead is cap tho.
@@GamerAccounts-s7s nah dude, I think his channel is cooked he has over 900k subscribers and he barely hit 20k views on videos often don't even get 10k and he use to get over 100k on every video
@@sohas111 such a shame, really liked his videos but this podcast is the reason I don't watch him anymore
Why Volund? People like PixelatedApollo already exist. Volund does everything PixelatedApollo already does, only much worse.
Volund is a professional Karen. Whining as a lifestyle. The kind to go on a tirade because his own balls are bothering him.
What do you expect he's a Scot😂
😂😂😂
@@mitchellbrough1615 Basically subhuman
@voyager9959 I know your just joking but don't know if I'd go that far. 😂 They just love to whine and complain.
At least we still have a country unlike Londonistan. B)
I love watching Okoii's videos for example, not because he is a cheese master or has amazing battle tactics, it's basically hilarious and fun content. If the person playing is having fun, they can cheese a siege battle for 2 hours and i'd enjoy watching it. I've 3k hours in this game and have very little left to learn or get good at so to me the content needs to be fun and fun only, no other criteria needed.
I'm right there with you. Love stuff like Okoii's video's, Legends. For the most part I don't care about "standard" battles. I've done them for 1.1k hours in WH3 and 2.4k in WH2. Why would I want to watch those? I do watch MIlkandCookies and Turin for replays. They can be fun, but that's not really the same since its multiplayer.
I think these two can't accept times have changed and the audience isn't the same and/or the wants of the viewers aren't the same. Its like Let's Plays - they aren't as relevant anymore and you will see diminishing returns on that content. Legend found or created the cheese niche in TWW and its spawned a lot of other content creators too.
A final point - I went back and played Atilla recently and I was bored. I don't find the battles entertaining like I used too. Warhammer and it's unit variety has ruined me. I also don't see the supposed "depth" of the tactics in it. I don't think WH3 is that tactically deep, but I think there are some rose-tinted glasses being worn when looking back at them. The main draw is the historical settings that we all nerd out over. A modern Medieval or Shogun would be great and make them feel closer to the quality of WH3. I'm also a big proponent of a fantasy setting in these games where you have basically mythological units and heros like WH3. Have both, don't skimp on either but I would love for some pagan vs Christian vs Islam magic forces
Not to be mean but this whole discussion felt kinda pointless to me.
Both Volound and Pixelated Apollo had their mind made up with no willingness to actually engage in a genuine discussion about the pros and cons of Warhammer and Legend struggled to convey any of the many appeals of Warhammer to be honest.
That’s Zoomers for you
@@1who4methese guys are old men lmao
Which one if these three people are zoomers?
I think Legend didnt mention anything specific about warhammer because he already knows what the reaction will be. Kinda pointless discussion w these 2 anyways.
I agree he seemed to not say anything, possibly for the reason you stated. So why waste the energy on it? Apollo barely sounds interested in the conversation and Volund won't let anyone else talk.
Their argument against total war warhammer relies on being self-focused and disingenuous.
A game’s quality (except for it functioning or not) is mostly subjective. To say warhammer is bad is to ignore its popularity (look at view counts, player counts, sales). All those fans enjoy playing it for a reason. Having an opinion on entertainment doesn’t make those people wrong. It’s for fun. If they’re having fun playing warhammer, the game is probably good to them - for any reason.
Both historical and warhammer are for people’s enjoyment, and people enjoy different things. This isn’t math, there is no right answer. You like what you like and you buy and play it. Fun is all a game has to be - having an opinion on a game doesn’t make you correct, it doesn’t make it less fun (“good”) for those who enjoy it, and it especially doesn’t make you virtuous.
That was brought up and the twos reaction was "oh that's just an appeal to popularity" I hate to break it to these guys but video games are a product that you have to sell. The fact is most of the TW fan base likes TWW, and these two are just coping when they say it's bad
@Ren99510 Thanks for pointing that out, and you’re right. PA bit the hand that fed him and his channel has never been as big. Sometimes I think the stress of that is funneled toward hating TWW. You can’t understand why people don’t watch you anymore turns into you can’t understand why people turn to TWW instead.
But I don’t know these people personally, so that’s just presumptuous on my part. I can’t judge, either. It must be hard to not want to support CA and have your channel suffer.
@Ren99510 100% and in my opinion big part being only my opinion is many of those changes work for warhammer e.g. magic, legendary Lords etc but don't work for other settings the same way.
Sorry to but in, but the popularity argument everyone makes is absolutely absurd to me. A game’s popularity equals its quality? Then tell me, where was that quality with Starfield? The game that everybody and their mother was hyped about, the game that won Steam’s most innovative game of the year award (steam awards are popularity contests), the game that fans immediately set to ignore or attack criticisms against it during launch. I ask again, where was the quality in the most barren, least developed, most apathetically curated game Bethesda has made to date?
Apologies for the heat, my disdain for the game coated my argument. But another point is that to say popularity equals high quality also demeans unpopular games of high quality. Take the soulsborne series, for one instance. Elden Ring may be the most popular game of the series, one that even the mainstream gamers had to acknowledge. But, by your argument, such a thing was nigh impossible, because the base formula was horrendous. Demon’s Souls, the progenitor of all modern Souls games, was an objective market failure. The only profits the game made was after its launch, when Altus published the game in the West, making it a small cult classic in the gaming industry. Bottom line is, the game was unpopular. But was it *bad* ? If anything, the success of Elden Ring, a game that shares much of its base formula with Demon’s Souls, says otherwise. So… the popularity argument doesn’t really mean much?
@@isaacpresley717 Popularity and reception is not just popularity. Millions bought Starfield and went "meh." Millions bought Warhammer 2 and went "wow."
Guys look, this guy Volound thinks Warhammer 3 is a crap game!
See? Nobody cares.
I just started playing Age of Wonders after your shoutout mate - it's a good call. Definitely worth a look if you feel Total War is stagnating a bit.
age of wonder 3 is my alltime favorite game and for some reason even coming back to age of wonder 4 i cant enjoy it for more than a couple hours
Same! I bought the game after Legends made a video on it, and im having a blast! Its my first Age of wonders game, and I already enjoy the turn based combat much more compared to TW real time combat
@@chrishart4356 that is werid, AOW 4 is better in basicaly every single way
@ i dont like the provence aspect of it. I liked ploping down my base anywhere i wanted. I also liked my units didnt have a xp cap so taking low tier units that survived into lategame was my dealbreaker.
They sound jealous of your WH3 success, they can’t understand your success bc they think it’s an objectively bad game. If you didn’t enjoy this game you wouldn’t have poured 10k hours into it. “The potential of the battlefield” is just dumb a unit of tier one spearman will never beat a bloodthirster, it’s a giant demon versus men the applications of the real world don’t apply to fantasy war. My campaigns are full of fun battles why should their objectively bad time affect the community? All in all they said their battle were boring and objectively bad and only gave personal experience rather than real points.
This video just made me hate Volound more and appreciate you more.
I don't know who Volund person is, but he was kinda making this video unwatchable for me.
It gets so much worse than you saw here. Genuinely awful personality.
I appreciate the talk Legend. It was a fun podcast, got to do it again soon
Yes you have to !
Take somebody else for volound, he only sees his points and never somebody's else
MOAR
Volound is a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. He also proudly spreads misinformation and Pro-Russian propaganda.
So he is even more based didn't know that
He’s a communist he can’t help it
Volound: Shogun 2 gameplay
Pixelated: Medieval 2, Shogun 2 and Empire gameplay
Legend: Here's me face
Lmaoo
Also regarding the discussion I think I agree with Pixie and maybe you should develop more what you enjoy about Warhammer 3 ?
Because all I understood was that you enjoy it because they have flaws and you enjoy exploiting flaws but do not enjoy playing the game as intended...
Isn't it a sign of it being a bad game if playing it as intended isn't fun ?
For example:
I play Medieval 2 as intended and I have fun, I ignore the flaws because eventho I could exploit them it would quickly ruin my fun and bore me...
Whereas in Warhammer 3 if I play the game as intended I find myself bored really quickly and I use the flaws to distract myself
To me it shows that Medieval 2 is a good game as it standard gameplay doesn't bore whereas Warhammer 3 is a bad game as it's standard "way of playing" bores me around turn 30/40 and I need to find some distracting flaws to keep me playing
"playing the game as intended" people told me I "didn't actually complete Elden Ring cause I used magic" and that "I am a R***** for using only pistol" in Ultrakill. The ONLY correct way to play the game is HOW YOU LIKE IT TO PLAY
Exploit? Sure. Melee spam? Sure. Only artillery? Why not? It's about fun, not "the intended way" otherwise you're going to turn into CA balance crew who see someone make a fun video that does something, see it spread across forums and either nerf it or straight out remove it from the game cause "people are not having fun ThE wAy We InTeNdEd It To Be PlAyEd"
The intended way to play the game, is to play the game. That's it. Enjoy it instead of telling others how they should play or you'd end up hit in the face by some random in a bar for telling him "that he's not playing darts the way you INTENDED him to play it"
That opening statement by Volound is a wild thing to say. Its really not that deep dude. Get off your high horse.
To me it's clear that the fantasy aspect, in particular the incredibly popular WARHAMMER side of the game, is enough to carry many aspects that were arguably done better in other Total War games. Yet the appeal of the fantasy was not mentioned at all in this discussion.
Man, i'm watching part 2 right now, and only one person came into this conversation with an open mind.
Honestly this whole conversation feels like PA and Volound bullying Legend into saying that Warhammer is a bad game. Or maybe I'm just overthinking
Feels that way ngl, which is a shame since I kinda found that a bit funny in part 1, but it got a bit old in part 2, and in part 3 it got a bit annoying. I played Warhammer and didn't like it mainly because of the battles (magic and flying units just don't appeal to me, at least the way its done in Warhammer), but its not really an objectively bad game. Its just that its currently the money maker of a really greedy company as of now.
You're not! It's clear that they don't care about his opinion and had no intention of considering it.
You are overthinking.
Volound is the angry karen of total war community 😂
Why is Volound even here, he's not there to debate. He is only there to talk sh*t about warhammer and to make fun of it. I appreciate Apollo atleast wanting to understand but Velound is just a spiteful dude huffing nostalgia.
Never heard about Volund, thanks for participating but let people talk ffs.
It made me want to listen more of you on podcasts Legend. Laidback, mature, interesting perspective, good social skills ( ahum ) always bits of things that work past videogames. It's a good skill to have. Thanks guys.
@@H0kram Volound was on his best behavior here, because he wasn't trying to brigade legend with his discord, since he's banned from reddit and total war forums. It's genuinely amazing how cruel and toxic he is.
This volound guy, is he even a human person, his entire life is about hating a gaming company..... remove that from him, this guy is an empty shell deluded of reason. I can understand covering large amounts of drama but i dont understand how some popular figures can ever only use their visiblity and skill to create terrible content that just shows off how miserable they are
I think you needed to give more positive examples, the character upgrade mechanics, how you can customise lords, the huge breadth of different ways to play, different races and characters, the fluff, the lore and how to recreate it in game. The same as they like to play historically, and re create, you can do it in game...
A lot of the disagreement just seems to be because Legend is a much more open minded kind of person and is better at seeing things from other people's points of view
You should take The Great Book of Grudges to tell those guys WHY ppl enjoy playing Warhammer
why arent we talking about the stupid building slots ?? give me back my building mechanics from medieval pls
Volound and Apollo are totally right, I can see the point of Legend as well. However, what bothers me is the audience. If the majority does not criticize the next game that CA will do will be a total crap. I am a historical fan and I have a problem with the fantasy stuff, but thats my opinion. However, liking and agreeing is not the way and it was also not the way that drives the worlds progress in general. The lesser the critic, the worst the product.
We need a looser of total war video as an april fools btw
Part of the reason I keep coming back to you Legend is your ability to take other perspectives, to at least try to see other sides of arguments, and to admit when you’re wrong. I don’t know either of these two, but trying to have a conversation with them seems exhausting. They seem to confuse rampant criticality with actual criticism in this video. Like undergrads who are just learning how to deconstruct ideas for the first time. “Whoa, guys, what if this thing we thought was good, actually wasn’t?”. There’s a fine line between “this thing is bad and you should hate it as much as me” and “I don’t like this thing”. You do a good job of walking that line and trying to find out what people other than yourself think. Keep doing that.
Only Volound would try to argue that TW Warhammer is mental poison and to try to compare Elder Scrolls bugs to Total War
Really don't see why you'd bother talking to someone like Volound
Apollo and Volound need to read "Who Moved my Cheese?" Dudes are both extinct due to their unwillingness to change with the times
Volound is such a frustrating character, came across his videos years ago and was quite happy to see someone holding CA accountable for their lack of quality control etc… but man by the 3rd video or so it was getting difficult to not trip on his massive ego. It took me a day to realise he doesn’t attempt to be objective, he just voices his opinion and decides it’s the correct one.
It's finally here!
The hidden knight... What is your wisdom in this situation
@@Pilps here's hoping next time you are on it too :D
Legend can't judge the game objectively.
But neither are PA and Volound. And when people try to convince you their subjective opinion is objective, they sounds really annoying.
I've watched all 3, I think voland and Apollo are really just historical players, who didn't grow up with Warhammer, and just can't like it.... They are also upset that CA has had success with Warhammer, and have ignored the historical games that they like.... If it was a crap game, it wouldn't sell, and in their minds, they cant see the attraction... I think they are purposely refusing to like it in principle.... To me its like when Warhammer fantasy was killed, i just refused to play Age of Sigmar, despite it eventually being very successful.... They simply can't comprehend
I Think vast majority of old player base hate comes from fact that it does not play like older TW titles as it shifted from formations and morale heavy to stats and heroes. And so when they try bring their tactics from older titles it completely fails evrey time and they end up confused where it goes wrong. I had that phase until I realized how different TW warhammer is from other titles.
Best way to figure it out is to play medieval2: Botet warhammer mod and modern TW titles to see the major difference. Legend was also repeating same point in 3 videos. "Its diffferent thing and i like it." In nutshell
@benfromthesewers1688 yep agree
@@adambrooker5649 TW:WH3 is my first Total war game and my first entry to warhammer universe. I've but 1600 hours in to the game this year.
Legend also started as historical player, his old playthroughs of historical TWs can still be found on his channel, and he still likes some historical games that he considers good. The difference is Legend found good in WH, and that made his a fan of fantasy too.
@KazeKoichi yes I know he started in historical, so did I, I just think for Apollo and Voland, it's a step too far for them
I have to admit, the other 2 people really started to piss me off as the time went on. There is nothing wrong with someone no liking something. But to say things like "the game is objectively bad" and try to get you admit it pissed me off because it is not "objectively"
subjectively yes but objectively no. I know for a fact that Volound has said things like Warhammer is bad because it is missing 'x feature' and I think "fuck that, I hope that feature never returns, that would make the game so much worse" because I played with that feature in other Total War games and I hated it.
Unironically more people would agree with Volound if he didn’t talk like an arrogant resentful nerd. I say this as someone who agrees with almost everything he says about TW
It’s why legend takes the soft approach and says “There’s other ways of doing things that’s fine”, volound is unfiltered
He's not unfiltered. He's a wank. Talking about being a RUclipsr as virtuous and noble. Total nugget.
I love his bluntness, refreshing.
"Id rather get 50% of what i want than push for 100% or nothing."
Well said. You cant fix problems that were created over the course of years overnight. It takes time and compromise.
Legend is right its not objectively bad game, it has bad elements that could be addressed and fixed. The monetization of the game sucks to do failures in other areas of sega
The monetization point really baffles me honestly. Do they really think that's Warhammer 3's fault as a game, something that is happening in the entire game's industry? Is the inclusion of wizards in Total War game to blame for DLC prices being ramped up? Genuinely a wild point to even bring up
1 grown adult and 2 whiney babies talk about Total War. Videos like this prove why I only like watching Legend.
"people are too stupid and they need guidance" is the motto of this podcast.
This entire talk showed how bad Legend is at articulating complex opinions. Or even simple things. Like, Apollo is asking directly “what’s good about Warhammer” and Legend, instead of talking about what he has been saying on his streams, in his videos, in his campaign reviews for some reason, starts dancing around questions and talking about “eat up piggies”, “monkey picking it’s ass” and making terrible analogies. I’m so confused.
If i remember at one moment he perfectly experssed himself at part 1.
"TW warhammer is different and I like it but I wouldnt any more warhammers"
This mainly refrences how warhammer is focused on heroes and how much different is gameplay due to many other changes compared to medieval total war 2.
Yes he really struggled for some reason
Its because Legend doesnt want to say anything specific thats good about warhammer here because he knows the reaction...so magic,crazy units, multiplayer domination/conquest modes or graphics or campaign mechanics he wont mention here.
I'll try to answer your reasoning with a question: What reaction do you expect from volound and apollo if he told them what was good with tw3 ? (tip: They think its shit)
Because he knows its absolute slop, but he has to stream it because it's what you guys watch.
Volound was constantly trying to manipulate Legend into being degrading to the overall playerbase.
So toxic it’s unreal.
He is the walking example of “your message may be correct but if you’re going to be shouting it at me, I don’t wanna know”
These are games! Games ffs!
Go outside!
Sorry Volund you also have shit taste in games Oblivion and skyrim is just as trash as tw:wh, and Bethesda are even more toxic than CA
I feel like getting Volund on was a detriment, since he done nothing but interrupt and try to force his opinion which could summarized as "TW is shit now". He can think whatever he wants, it is just not a stance worth 3 hours of discussion.
Every discussion no matter the topic with the person whose only goal is to confirm his own viewpoint is just a big loss of time and energy.
Main problem with TW is.. People often incorrectly think it's fantasy vs historcial but often it's rather Modern TW game engine vs Old engine.
Just play warhammer beggining of end times mod for medieval total war 2. Mod that Legend really loves.
Try to fight there same way as you fight in modern TW, youd most likely lose as it plays completely differently.
Legend also likes how different TW warhammer is from other titles, despite the maaany flaws, but he wouldnt want new TW to be like that too and weve seen how badly it ended when they tried to mash hero system into TW title where it does not belong to.
in end it boils to
Warhammer BOTET med2: Historical combat based on formations, morale, terrain with masive armies and strong fantasy elements.
modern warhammer: Hero based, fast paced, squad like combat with smaller scale.
I agree that the real issue is the engine. The things that people complain about were there before Warhammer. And they persist in games since Warhammer.
Warhammer 3 is a good game and the fact that its different is a good thing. Making the same game 10 times in a row is pointless even if it has 'perfect mechanics'.
I really don't like the way apollo puts down warhammer players or people who enjoy the fantasy total war games. The "historical" fan base has become so toxic that I want nothing to do with them
Id like to correct that apollo does not put down fantasy. He just dislikes the engine and mechanics that come with warhammer TW.
Lets not mix up hate for game for hate for fantasy genre or warhammer, mainly because appolo loves warhammer and fantasy.
There’s nothing wrong with fantasy he’s talking about warhammer which is a stripped down of all the features and just sells u legendary lords. U guys need to watch the whole podcast not just legends video because his is part 3 he agreed with most things they said until the end. Warhammer has no. Navel combat. Mercenary system. Horrible building mechanic. Less immersive and unique traits for generals. No family tree. No troop formation. No building watch towers and forts. Worse sieges. A complete absence of realistic morale. All of these things is missing but they sell u reskin units like black orcs with shields and u accept it and I think that’s where the problem is. I played mostly older total wars but then I did get into warhammer and have bought everything and recently went back to med 2 and realized how much garbage shit I bought for warhammer and how not good it is, unless I’m playing with friends
@@benfromthesewers1688 incorrect. In his first video he basically called warhammer fans simple
@@jamescooke7243 yes bro because u guys have stripped features and when people complain and say the game is stripped of content u guys defend it like crazy and then buy the next minimum effort dlc that adds a unit but this time with a shield or a new legendary lords that makes his peasants get +2 melee attack
@@omidtabrizi-e2z did you consider some of those things were changed on purpose? Like how a family system would work in an already made IP? Of course you didn't. What building mechanics? No need for mercenaries in this franchise because its not lore friendly apart from the ogres which they just added the mercenary mechanics for. Realistic morale in a warhammer fantasy game? Sieges suck so ill give you that.
And no, we didn't just accept new reskins. That's why ca has stepped up recently. Because of the backlash from warhammer players
I have to say listening to this is painful, you're being civil and trying to discuss stuff while the other two are trying to interrogate you. And before anyone starts defending apollo and Volund, I used to watch both back in the day, and got simply bored. I used to play medieval 2 and Rome 1, those were my first games, yet I also enjoy TWW, and trying to throw mud at me because I like playing a game in a setting I like is not very nice.
'Warhammer is objectively bad' my god, only children use that. If something is objectively bad then *nobody* would play it. Anthem is a good example of something ObJecTiVeLy bad, but even that had some players.
You can like objectively bad things. My Summer Car for example. It looks worse than a ps1 game and is buggy and finicky. Many gameplay feature were deliberately designed and implemented to be as annoying, tedious and inconvenient as possible. And yet I and many others love it dearly.
Volound often carries so many good points, but his arrogance takes so much away from them.
Hey Legend just dropping in after watching the 3 videos, I appreciate the way you engage in this conversation with nuance and patience. You've gotten better at conveying your ideas and emotions calmly (dad buff?) so your position can be seen more clearly. I do think though you're trying to meet people halfway when they aren't going to move. Keep up the great work (and cheese for the cheese god!)
I really like pixelated appolos videos, I actually started playing total war by seeing the third age videos of him, now I am over 1k hours in wh3 loving the game. I think pixelated appolo is sad because there will be no good historical total war from now
I checked comments and often they misunderstand him as fantasy hater when appolo loves both fantasy and warhammer
Its just that he dislikes game engine and mechanics around TW: Warhammer.
Dislike for TW: Warhammer =/= dislike for warhammer fantasy .
@@benfromthesewers1688 these guys won't understand that ben. They have paid GW the cost of a home over decades and will do anything to defend their "investments". Its crazy, I spend tons of money on stupid shit.....and have no problem saying its shit....and its stupid.
He is not sad because there will not be a good historical total war, he is sad because there will be no good total war anymore. The divide of History v fantasy is a red herring propagated by CA themselves. They want you to he divided so the playerbase cannot rally and unify to make them answer for their crap.
"Warhammer 3 is objectively bad because the monetization system was not always good" is a big, BIG leap of logic that just doesn't make sense. I'm tired for LoTW having to deal with that kind of fallacious argument, poor guy
Exactly this. I didn't know wizards being included into a Total War game was to blame for the entire games' industry aggressive monetization strategy towards consumers over the past like 2 decades. Genuinely a baffling point.
battles of warhammer are perfect for a dawi corner camper such as myself
12:30 he basically said without using half of the game tell me what they did better? What kind of nonsensical restriction is that?
i just hope future total wars bring back unit formations
i genuinely missed that in the warhammer saga
but nobody seems to mention how warhammer added magic to total war, which was an entirely new mechanic
40:30 when you realise you're stuck in a looping conversation with guys that are hardstuck on an anti-fantasy mindset, and as long as total war doesn't meet their demands based on game makes in 2002, they will believe total war is doomed
man these guys are fossils, all their arguments are based on games made centuries ago that have barely any features or depth. the points about battles are easily solveable with a few game balancing mods for the total war saga and yet they act like its the end of total war
its low key getting frustrating
They are not anti fantasy at all, PA plays fantasy in medieval 2 80% of the time. They are anti bad game.
@@baldr2510 "plays fantasy in medieval 2" you missed the point, hes playing a game from 2002 lmao
and thinks that can be relative to warhammer tw
@@unowno123 First, you got your date completely wrong, and now admit your point about "anti fantasy" isn't true. Second, the battles are not serviceable with mods in terms of being any sort of realistic representation of what a believable or tactically interesting battle would look like, I was a Modder for Warhammer and did several popular ones for sieges, but its very limited with what can be achieved outside of basic stat changes.
The engine has been a major problem in the battles since warscape was created, and they want those problems that are now over 12 years old actually addressed.
A way to think more clearly about this is by framing it within the larger philosophical topic of objectivity in aesthetics.
Compare Chess and Tic-tac-toe.
What can you say about them? Subjectively, you can say you prefer one or another.
But there are also measurable things you can say about both that are objective.
I hate drama. I especially hate manifactured drama from people who dont even play the game. I am making this comment around 26 mins into the video. Other 2 dudes just want you to say " Warhammer bad, fanatasy bad" to make themselves feel better. At this point i hope we get WH:40K next instead of a historical title :D
You didn't realy watch past 2 parts? Appollo loves fantasy but hates how TWW works mechanic wise same for Volund but he's extreme and even at times nonsenical about it and lost all hope.
Main problem is not fantasy vs historical but rather how games function. Even legend doesn't consider it as real TW game but rather hero focused game and he enjoys it and loves to break it.
I much prefer beggining of end times mod for medieval total war 2 over TW:Warhammer
@@benfromthesewers1688 No i would rather not give clicks to their videos. They sound disingenuous with their concerns over TW. I cant take anyone who claims " Warhammer is not a real TW game" seriously.
@@SergeantSon The thing I wanted to point out is major difference between classic Total war title and Total war warhammer titles. In the end they are total war titles but play differently. Its like Dawn of war 1 and Dawn of war 2 situation and many people for some reason can not see it that way.
Volound is just ego pro hater and Appolo kinda doesnt understand Warhammer titles due to difference gameplay wise but hes a good dude and often agree with each other but Volound is the odd one in videos.
@@SergeantSon I don't know about Volund aside from what the comment section has been spoiling me about his lore, but Pixel's chill and didn't make his living trashing another game, in his channel he just sticks to the games he like, even plays fantasy mods like that of LoTR or GoT settings.
@SergeantSon What kind of BS mentality is that? "Oh I don't want to give them clicks" No, idiot, it's a whole 2 thirds of the discussion that you're actively ignoring because you're more comfortable taking your "favorites side" instead of engaging in the whole conversation. Get off your high horse, your just being petty.
Someone break out that meme showing three heads of a hydra where one of them is an imbecile.
*two of them
@@shmekelfreckles8157 appollo is alright... idk enough about him but at least hes not completely insufferable
That's King Ghidorah, I love that image.
If normal people have to perform all of the unnatural, un-irl, contortions Legend has to perform in order to win a battle then "Total War" has lost the plot and made the game to rediculous to play.
Legend, your interlocutors are not honest actors, they are never open to other people's opinions and just want you to say they are right... They aren't worth your time...
They also know or understand nothing about the world in general, based on their opinions of what a gaming streamer needs to be or their opinion of "corn"...
You let them walk all over you, no arguments.
Y’all should go see part 1 and part 2
Really enjoyed the conversation u guys had but, after reading some of the comments, I feel like most ppl didn't or don't want to understand the different povs, just silly attacks on anyone's character and exacerbated stan culture, but hey, that's on me, I shouldn't scroll down in the 1st place.
most of the hate volound gets is for his history of being one of the most toxic youtubers on the entire platform, and not so much how he acted in this video, which, there were problems with but for him, was extremely tame in comparison to how he normally acts
36:49 Case and point look at Atilla. Amazing battles dog shit campaign. Didn't do that very well. Admittedly there's also performance issues but i think that Atilla's failing is mostly in the Campaign side of things. I get the vision and it's cool but i think the implementation could have been better.
It is definitely the performance issues, that game still runs like shit.