Honestly this is surprisingly accurate. I’m a high-school teacher and liz’s experience is very real. The kids who outcast themselves (not the kids who just don’t naturally fit in) don’t realize how nasty they are treating everyone around them and it’s honestly sad because you feel bad for both the kids who get upset and the kid who is all alone because they don’t understand the defense mechanism is keeping them from having friends.
yeah but her peers still ended up being bullies anyway, so yeah liz was a bit of a bully, but the adults didn't move on, they remained little kids, thats pathetic, they wanted to Carrie her, at least Liz somewhat had growth in her life, and she still felt remorse for what she was like when she was younger, the others just held onto their anger and stayed stagnant
I always thought about this. Every adult when I was a teen said they were a nerd outcast, but that’s statistically impossible. A lot of people were popular bullies and won’t admit it.
i get what you are saying and it is a good point. but i graduated way back in 1990 and i see some of the people that were popular bully types when i was in highschool, i see them in my facebook feed through mutual acquaintances. and honestly a lot of them are regional or district managers and corporate types at various companies, and frankly they just arent in the same circle of friends i normally hang around. which just means they do exist but i never really encounter them anymore because even decades later they are still in different cliques. so maybe the adults you were around really were the bullied kids and thus the bullys arent in the circle you meet. all that said, it is a curious question to whether those people in that circle are still bullys or will admit to their own kids that they were bullys. i myself was quite popular in highschool but i went to a poor side of town school where the rich preppy kids and jocks didnt really run things, they were there and some of them were bullys but they didnt mess with me and my friends who were the stoner and metal kids and would fight back. and i took up for other kids when i saw them being bullied, but of course i could just be saying that to make myself sound like a good guy now for all you know.
@@newwavepop I don't think people that bully others usually see it as bullying or at least figure they weren't a bully even if they did it sometimes. When I was in school there were only a few people that were like cartoonish bullies. I was a nerd in some regards but was also pretty savage in others and I definitely bullied people from time to time
I lashed out at people but that was because everyone ostracized me for being trans. Then I became mean. But that’s not who I wanted to be. I regret that a lot.
@Happy Thoughts Sadly some don't or get worse in college I befriended a girl a few yrs older than me in college when I first transfered she got me involved in the campus paper it was fun at first until I realized she always made me the butt of every joke she interupted me in conversations texted when I tried to talk to her when I paid for her food. I looked up to her but she used me and didn't care so one day I just left. She continues this behavoir with people younger than her taking them under her wing only to ask for favors and gaslight them and degrade them her excuse being she is more experienced and trying to help us out. In short she is a toxic person who although I feel sorry for I know is not a good person she doesn't ever apologize or admit her wrongdoings plus any other student who tries to steal a freshmans financial aide when they are older is just cruel and petty. That's like picking on someone who is still learning the ropes and doesn't know better. With friends like her who needs enemies. Anyway she transfred recently I hope she changes but at 25 I doubt it she picked on me at 18 in her 20s . I just hope no one experiences that feeling I went through with her. In the end I learned if someone constantly direspects you or others constantly no matter how small be wary of that person and realize your time is precious and everyone deserves to be treated with respect. If someone can't even give you that simple courtsey they are not worth your time or a good friend to have. And sadly some people don't bat an eye at their bad behavoir no matter how old they get. I understand your sentiment though I still believe people can change in college. We all have that oppurtunity in our lives it's something we have to want to do though. And not everyone wants to though. And depending how you treat others and how your life operates it can be a good or bad thing.
Surprisingly some nerds are mean and bullies. I've dealt with a few pretentious nerds that judt liked to insult people's intelligence and belittle people. And they wonder why people didn't like them.
@Happy Thoughts I don't see how that has anything to do with bullying. But the whole they them concept is a bit fringe to me. I understand transgendered people, but I think some people are too hung up on gender expression that they denounce all gender. Which is very different than trans.
We all took part in the bogus social hierarchy as kids. I wasn't popular in high school, but I had a small cluster of friends that avoided the big events that the "popular" kids took part in, and made fun of them for thinking it was important - certainly mean-spirited but we justified it because we perceived ourselves to be the ones being picked on by them. And I do have regrets about caving to peer pressure as a 10 year old to name-calling one of my classmates. I wanted to join in on their recess banter and joking, and wound up making fun of a guy who was actually very sweet and didn't deserve to be mocked, all because I wanted to fit in. Of course I was the ONLY one to get reprimanded by the teacher for it, so of course they then used that to tease me with even more.
i always found this sort of thing strange, because i went to a school on the poor bad side of town. and bullying meant literal physical assault, but it was the 80s and i was growing up watching all these John Hughes style teen comedies on cable constantly. and most of the time especially for girls the bullying seemed like tame vocal taunting. when i see mean girls type stuff like that i always wonder if girls realize that for boys bullying is actual physical violence, as well as vocal taunting and name calling and teasing. or to word in a different way, boys will be bullied by bigger stronger meaner boys. girls seem like they are bullied by skinny pretty popular rich girls, and that is always weird to me because a girl could just go over there and punch her little skinny arrogant mouth. but i know, its a whole thing with many layers and nothing is that simple. but still its weird to me the differences in the way girls get bullied versus the way bots do.
@newwavepop True, but I think it's also a "bullying with a Hollywood lense" sort of thing, because I would get physically assaulted by girls in school on top of verbal harassment, and I went to school in the early 2000s. I was also bullied by boys both verbally/physically when I was younger, but not to the same extent as with the girls. I think Hollywood steers clear of any of that type of bullying unless they're doing some sort of 'no bullying' campaign in a documentary. But I've definitely been aware about how boys have it bad physically with bullying a lot of the time, because people in general think it's ok to hit boys and its normal behavior for boys to exert 'dominance'. 🙄 But yeah, that's my experience with it. Sorry you went through so much, can't say I completely understand but I definitely sympathise.
I love the line "I was a nobody!" because it makes me realize that the way we perceive ourselves can be the total opposite of how others perceive us. We might think no one notices us, but maybe someone does. And just maybe that someone might be affected by us and the things we do or say.
Tina Fey is a genius haha. I love how she wrote Liz as so nerdy yet insecure, she bullied popular kids before they could even get near her to avoid any form of humiliation lmao. That’s never really been done before.
I mean I don’t blame her. She didn’t have the protective bubble of popularity like they did. And in the real world, popular people only reach out to others in order to be condescending or if they think they have superficial traits deserving of making them popular too. Bad reasoning all around.
@lukasribin4168 Thats really not true, or at least not true for everywhere. the popular kids in my high-school were popular Because they were genuinely nice and tried to make things good for all the kids. The prom king at my little brother's school was a stereotypical attractive kid but he was also genuinely the sweetest guy who just made friends with eveyone because he was kind.
@@lukasribin4168what? Popular people are usually pretty nice even if they are Hipócrates behind people back , they usually treat everyone nicely , at least that was my experience
@@markusbarten8269 in Liz's mind she probably assumed that she was helping ease him into coming out the closet but it look more like her actions caused them the only go deeper into the closet but nail the door shut. It makes her look even worse because what you can get from this is she traumatized him so bad and wanted to come out well as other people pointed out he went to insane levels to try to deny that he was gay likely out of fear that if Liz has a measuring point that will mean he'll get it worse from others if he comes out so he has to deny deny deny. It makes sense since you remember the woman she insulted about her mother's pill addiction has to go to therapy and had a relapse just from coming back in contact with Liz for just that amount of time they were in conversation! I mean this pretty much set up all the bad things Liz caused and never tried the really take responsibility for or the beginnings of her well-intentioned attempts to help people but causes her to suffer the road to hell is paved in good intentions... To others! In her case the Only Hell she gets is having to admit or continue to deny that ain't she herself has issues! Remember what happened with the Grossman girl the one who was acting like a s*** because she was hiding from her husband but because Liz just couldn't stand a woman acting like a bad stereotype she had to expose that woman and pretty much exposed her false identity to say insane ex-husband all because she wanted to prove to Jack that she is a good influence on women and like the chick said herself when Liz outed her. You meddling b****! She doesn't know when to leave well enough alone. On the plus side at least this gave a very good reason why someone like Jenna would hang around her. They're like two peas in a pod different versions of narcissism and female viciousness the difference is Jenna at least admits that she is a f****** vicious narcissist or I think the better term is she's just terrible at hiding it thanks Rachel Point Liz on the other hand is in full-on denial and when she finally accepts it she decides everybody else's fault not hers. Still to this day don't know who's worse LOL. But I have to go with Liz:-)
I watched this as a joke and kinda surprised myself with the nugget of truth behind this. Her social anxiety led her to believe everyone was going to make fun of her so she developed this defense mechanism of being nasty before they could bully her, in the end making her the bully to preemptively “defend” herself but actually outcasting herself.
I tried joining the chess club in high school and those nerds beat me back to back and rubbed it in my face so I left. Nerds can be just as mean as anybody.
I was mostly a nerd for nearly all my public school life. I told myself that when and if I got half as pretty as the girls who were mean to me, I would never be mean to them. Halfway through high school, I noticed I had become popular. Not for any reason. I was involved in a lot of things that interested me. By the time that happened, some of my nerd friends had abandoned me and started rumors about me. Even went as far as to try and get me to not be accepted to the college of my choice. That's when I realized that anyone could be a bully. Appearances be damned. It's how you treat people.
I think the problem is nerds/geeks expect people to bully them and up acting defensive and antisocial. It happened to me in high school I was a geek and there were some people who picked on me, but at the same time I was the one who never gave anyone a chance, because I expected the worst out of them. Like Liz’s telescope scene if someone walked up to me and tried to take an interest in what I was doing I’d snub them like they were beneath me, because I assumed they were either setting me up for an insult or taking pity on me.
I went through the same thing, I had trust issues too, and when it came to socializing I felt like a lost cause cuz of how awkward I was. It felt more comfortable having one BFF and staying out of people's social circles.
I think today it's most notable. The internet allows for anonymity to be a thing, and for kids to bully anybody. We found out the hard way that it's not just sticks and stones that can break our bones. 😂😂
@@renzo7503 I mean everybody. It. Those who say otherwise are just f****** lying! I mean Borderlands 2 reference that scene and their version was Farm or dare then what they were referencing... t h o u g h said guys did try to kill you so there's a mix of action in that to!
The meanest girls I encountered in high school were my “best friends” we were all apart of the school’s academic elite and they enjoyed putting me down, as if we were competing.
I noticed this a lot in my high school 20ish years ago. The people that felt like outcasts were generally rude to anybody that tried to interact with them out of fear or jealousy or something and always talked trash about everyone.
I guess it's all perspective I thought it was obvious that I had social anxiety and was scared to speak or even exist but apparently everyone thought I thought I was too good for them
@@roslyn-rose124 really everyone has some level of social anxiety, it’s shown here where the blonde girl is scared to even engage Liz because she knows she’s gonna get chewed out, that’s social anxiety too. If a popular kid tries to be nice to a less popular kid they aren’t thinking “ohh poor thing has social anxiety” they’re thinking “wow what a jerk” because to some extent social anxiety was something they were dealing with too and they felt slighted.
That was something I noticed in my own high school too. I wasn’t a popular kid or an outcast, but the students that popular culture would stereotype as bullies (i.e. athletes, popular kids, etc) were some of the nicest people in my school. They were passionate about school, and nice to teachers and other students. Meanwhile the only bullies I saw at my school were the same social outcasts that popular culture would stereotype to be the sympathetic underdogs. They were mean and negative and seem to go out of their way to ruin the day of other people. It was certainly surprising for me, considering how TV and movies portray high school life.
@@Mia-dt3gl wow. I never thought that someone had a similar experience. I was so shy and going through stuff that I never interacted outside my own circle besides my own crippling social anxiety but some of the nicest people I knew in high school were the popular ones and they were, overall, awesome
This has to be one of the funniest episodes, and I like how they made Liz the teenage bully because she really does have an air of “not like other girls” to her and it’s clear that she never quite outgrows it. Jack’s episodes where he’s fighting either Devon or Kaylie are top notch too 😂
Honestly this situation is my worst nightmare. I was bullied and socially ostracized throughout school, and it still deeply affects me. To have people that used to bully me, or even that I used to be friends with turn around and tell me that I was the mean one would be a punch in the gut.
I was in the same boat and I wonder about the same thing now. I actually had to leave school because of how I was treated. I have suffered tremendously since as well. I’m planning the end to my life because of the consequences of my position in this world. I am very tired and utterly destroyed. So if anyone ever tried to spin things the other way, I would be livid and mortified. But unfortunately it is common for the victims to be demonized especially if they had disadvantages and a lack of power/privilege that got them bullied in the first place…because that means those problems, vulnerabilities and adversity will still exist beyond high-school..still taken advantage of by others. Friends who abandoned us or perhaps want to absolve their own guilt..will go with the narrative that we somehow deserved the mistreatment. And of course our bullies, left to their own devices, “winning” the game..are the ones who get to create whatever narrative they desire while we suffer in the shadows, unwittingly. I was always hyper-aware of my own missteps or whenever I accidentally hurt someone’s feelings. Which was rare. I would feel bad about the most minor of things, for years down the line. Still do. That combined with my own experiences and the fact that I wasn’t the type of person who could ever get away with being the slightest bit mean (I would be annihilated even for a foot-in-mouth comment because people were already looking for reasons to attack me) meant that it was actually impossible for me to have become a bully. So if someone wanted to act like I was the bad one all along, they would have to do some major mental gymnastics. But hey, I wouldn’t put it past them and the type of people they are/were. A couple I feel bad for because they also had similar disadvantages to me so I go easier on them in my mind, but I refuse to be lenient with the ones who were well-off and privileged out their asses..the ones who are living it up today. They had no excuse to pick on me. I’m so sorry you also went through such torment and now have to worry about this nonsense on top of it.
@@lukasribin4168please don’t end your life. You matter, and even if other people have hurt you, you deserve to live. Things may be bad now, but you never know what things will look like down the line. Please don’t rob yourself of a future happy you. Sending you love and strength.
Academic elitism creates as much bullying as the attractiveness hirarchy in high school. I had half my classes with students labelled "gifted" and half my classes with kids without any special label. The gifted classes had insane competition and even racism. The "normal" classes had students that would try to bully each other back to mediocrity for being smart, but they spent more time trying to look good on social media.
I went to a gifted girls highschool. Dear God it was even worse. Not only did we get classified according to that, but I had to deal with abusive tiger parents, and just overall a more difficult school to excel in. All while being alone AF. I swear I met thing one girl whose friendship I really cherished, and she moved to a whole other country the following year. F the world. It was just so bad. Edit: I wished I was homeschooled 😅
Gifted kids , when in large groups, are insanely aware of any and all psychology tricks and utilize any strategy found in a fill-the-blank Robert Greene novel.
I felt horrible in high school. So insecure and self conscious. I still went to my 20 year reunion and it was so fun! The drunken popular guys told me “I remember you: the really quiet, nice girl.” Is that how they saw me? I wasted so much time being so worried. High school still sucked, but I wish I would have given it less thought at the time.
I mean is that much of a compliment? I feel like if you really felt that horrible, you would have never gone to the reunion. I would not touch my reunion with a ten-foot pole.
I was this kind of bully too. Ish. My dad always told my siblings and I that we were above everyone else. People picked on me and I remember in high school that someone tried to engage with me and I started getting shitty with them. Then i realized they weren't being mean. I changed that day. Also I dont engage with my family. So I'm very nice now :)
I went to school with a kid like Liz! He was considered a nerd, but he also didn’t take any sh!t! But over 8th grade summer he really turned into a huge bully and was that way throughout high school. It was crazy to see!
This realistically applies. At my 20s now, previously in an all girls high school, the blonde pretty girls were always sweet. It was the SuperWhoLock girls who were really mean, just when I tried to engage in mutual interests. Those girls who had an air of superiority and made you feel like dirt for wanting to make new friends. Weird.
I get it if they thought that they where being bullied, I though I was bullied by my classmates but they where just actually jockig, they treat eachother that way.
What does blonde have to do with it? Some of the most bullied kids I knew were blonde and physically unattractive. Also “sweetness” doesn’t mean sh*t. That’s a mask that a lot of pretty people wear and it’s condescending more than anything else. Also you’re probably suffering from the Halo effect. Who are SuperWhoLock girls? What does that mean?
I absolutely loved this arc she broke that nerd who got bullied in school and that is why she turned out to be like this trope but instead, she bullied everyone and made everything so much better.
This episode is funny to me because it is so true. The worst bullies I encountered were my fellow nerds. Ironically they kept claiming to be victims. They were only targeted because they themselves were a**holes to most people. Having said this only a small number of nerds were unpopular. Most of the nerds in my high school were actually well liked by the general student population. The kindest ones during my time in high school were the jocks. It was the jocks who were the most considerate and polite.
There's a difference between geek, nerd& dweeb and this episode emphasises that... In my country they're called something different and the nerds lead the school, geeks can still be popular but the dweebs/weirdos (which has nothing to do with brains and very little to do with looks) were the outcasts.
@@lukasribin4168 Everything I said is true. Most nerds were actually liked by most classmates. The only nerds who got bullied were bullies themselves. Unfortunately the teachers ignored the bullying done by the small number of nerds who were a**holes. Teachers just assumed all nerds are victims.
I hear you. A lot of popular athletes at my high school were actually nice kids, and smart too(were often in AP honors courses). Tv portrayals for me, were not realistic.
@@sunflowerlady2057 Sucks, the experience I had was the stereotypical jocks -- for the most part. There were some nice guys who were jocks, but most of the jocks sucked and were dicks.
i was a very small kid. i was always way shorter than the other kids in my grade. in order to not get bullied in school, i was always super-aggressive (a la a good offense makes a good defense). i was always afraid that people saw through it and something bad would happen. then when I was about 26, I ran into one of my old classmates and he told me that everyone in school was terrified of me. Me??? I was half their size!!!! So I guess I can relate to this sketch. still baffles me!
i had a weird opposite problem, i started high school in 86 and i was 6'5". my entire life i had always been by far the tallest kid in school, but because i was so tall i was also almost unimaginably skinny and thus physically weak. so every boy in school would try to bully me, any time any kid in school would find out they could bully the guy thats a foot taller than them it would have every kid taking out all the bullying they had put up with out on me. luckily my junior year i found my confidence and a whole new group of friends and scene and became pretty popular. but up until then for 10 of my 12 years in school i had had a terrible time on non stop bullying and lived in fear og even going to school and even the walk there or home. and i always tell people when they see these school shootings happen, that i can totally understand how this event came to be and not to lay all the blame at the feet of the shooters.
I mean tbf in reality, people can be both bullied and a bully. Doesn’t excuse anything ofc, but sometimes people (especially kids) lash out in self-defense
My extremely conceited friend cried to her mother because I ran past her backpack with a pencil and the pencil drew a line on the backpack (that you could literally just erase). I got reprimanded to hell for it. Some people cry and play victim for the stupidest reasons. She was not a good friend to me at all and I wasn’t even allowed to joke around with her. But she was allowed to treat me like a second class citizen and think of herself as superior to me. I had another friend (when I was much younger) who called me names (but nothing about my looks) and made me cry at least twice, but she apologized and told me she had anger issues for her own reasons. I don’t hold it against her. She was a nice friend otherwise and did not think she was better than anyone else. I know she felt guilty about it even years later. She was eventually ostracized herself. I don’t even consider her a bully at all..and I had a lot of bullies. She’s probably the only one who feels bad about making me upset, and she’s not even one of the people who deserves to feel bad! That’s the irony. It was the people who made fun of my appearance and used that as an excuse to treat me like less than an animal, who are the real nasty bullies in my eyes. The lowest is the low. And they never changed. I never cried in front of them. Yet they are the ones who hurt me the most. The popular privileged ones are the worst because they had even less of an excuse to be a pos to me.
The whole arc of Liz turning out to not only have been, but also still be, a straight-up bully while never realizing that is fascinating to me. So well done.
Dear god...I’m Liz lemon. It all makes sense. The self righteous hypocrisy, the barely concealed self loathing...the need to insult and sarcastically jab to defend against imagined slight. Help me!
@@Saturns_Return I did actually. I found that if I had a steady supply of weed I was a much laid back individual. Sadly a 24 seven weed supply is not only difficult to maintain it’s also unrealistic given societies rather prudish understanding of aforementioned herb.
No, you live with it....accept what you are, and understand that change is not possible for everyone. Learn to love the void that is your self esteem, and relish your addiction of petty judgement and futile self righteous loathing. Be a Lemon, be a paty, be a *LEMON PARTY.*
"I want to go to there."...I always say that when I see an Outback Steakhouse...every time. If the people in the car understand it...they are still my friends.
When kids made fun of me, I was a little too autistic to realize they were Messing with me, and nobody knew i was autistic. I’d always freak out at provocation until I realized what was going on with my brain.
The majority of it was pretty obvious to me. I was bullied and looked down on since daycare. I only found out about Autism and ADHD a couple years ago. Sometimes I do think about something someone said a long time ago and have that realization going, "Hey!...that was rude." 😅 Can't really say much back now. I was just the quiet girl in HS that got her nose pierced during a Biology Lecture. 😅 A Freshman thought I was popular because I knew one or two people from every clique. They all had one thing in common and they were decent and compassionate individuals. When did you find out?
Honestly, I had a friend who thought everything was a slight. Everything was a provocation. Now he's figured out he's autistic, but I still don't like the fact that I had to apologize for every little thing. Words getting received a certain way doesn't actually make it that way.
All of them were better actors than Tina Fey, who was barely passable as a Muppet movie villain. Elaine Stritch finally knew what a successful series look like after she lost *The Golden Girls* to Bea Arthur and after *The Ellen Burstyn Show* both failed miserably and enabled the rise of the godawful Megan Mullally.
I was bullied and I bullied. That’s how we learn to be in a society. I think I’m more balanced now, where I know how to stick up for myself but also try and be kind to all as much as I can.
Love the casting detail of Liz being the same actress (not just a play on shows that’d do the same so we know it’s the same character but also save money on a new actor/actress) but also showing that she hasn’t grown like the others have.
Biggest awakening ever was when I was at a summer camp and (I thought) joking with one of the kids there. It wasn't until he snapped "why are you being so mean to me" that I realized we where not joking at all. I apologized and never spoke to him again but it really messed me up to realize the way my friends treated me wasn't normal. Truly most kids don't realize when they're bullying someone. And sometimes they are ostracized more by themselves than other kids.
A lot of us go through this I feel; people are fake nice to us to make fun of us and so we put up a layer of sarcasm and deflection and so when someone is actually trying to be nice to us for real we push them away.
But how do you tell who is being genuinely nice vs. fake nice. It doesn’t seem fair at all when you put up a layer of sarcasm and deflection because you already have decided the person is guilty already without enough proof.
I love this as a quiet kid who was friends with mostly “nerds” and two popular girls. The popular girls were so so nice to me. They played volleyball and literally were so chill. Only cared that we had a good time. My “nerdy” best friend was so competitive. Every thing I did good was me trying to be better than her. Everything I did bad she would mock me for and bring it up every second she could. I felt like every time I was with her I felt worse and worse about myself. I would ask her why she would say the things she said and she just told me I was sensitive. So I stayed thinking that I was just being sensitive.
Your friend probably had to worry more and could only cope by playing catch-up. Perhaps she saw that you were being treated kindly by the popular kids and she wasn’t, the difference in treatment is insulting enough. Also popular kids tend to be privileged and thus have less to worry about, less stress, mroe security in their worth..but let me tell you..if you were ever to question their worth or take away their lofty position, they would probably be quick to turn far nastier than your friend ever was. You need to appreciate the context.
@lukasribin4168 I will say you also don’t have context and you are assuming about a person you don’t even know. Just because you feel insecure does not mean in any way mean you should treat your friends badly. If every time I say anything good about my life and you have 5 bad things about it, I do not want anything to do with you. I spent 4 years trying to hype her up, make her happy and confident with new experiences. Introduce her to my “popular” friends and other nice people that weren’t as popular. Each and every one of them told me to never bring that person around. The idea that someone is allowed to be mean to someone because they are coping needs to die. I am insecure, I have been severely bullied, I have been jealous. But never in my life have I ever put people I called my friends down for good things in their life. I have had NASTY popular friends and NASTY unpopular friends. Morale of the story: just because someone is popular doesn’t mean they are automatically evil. Just because someone is not popular does not mean they can stomp all over people’s feelings because they feel they need to “catch up” As someone who has been a total loser my whole life, this whole excuse is so stupid and dumb.
Saaaaaame, for real. The pretty and popular girls would invite me to do normal fun stuff, and trust me some of them were into Star Wars and things like that too, but they also were into makeup and Britney Spears and fashion too! My mother was literally exactly like Liz Lemon in this, if Liz Lemon was also a creepy controlling antisocial hoarder who refused to bathe. She forbade me from hanging out with those cool popular girls. My “best friend” of a decade tried to force her prudishness down my throat and make me a cold, uptight, frumpy, dateless, kissless, boring mcboringface weirdo nerd into obscure media that was only popular with senior citizens in the 70’s.
@@mystiquevue3541off topic but just to let you know. You’re not a loser, nobody is. And we all have insecurities, You’re definitely right that being insecure doesn’t justify being a bullied tho.
@@AisuruMirai i mean be sorry for what you did and what you said, not depending on how the other feels. the word _if_ makes the apology empty and worthless.
I was the popular kid without knowing I was popular ... I thought everyone didn't want to talk to me or acted weird when they did because I did something. Turns out they were all afraid of making a bad impression when they finally got enough courage to talk to me. I never got invited to parties cause I gave everyone anxiety if I was there. I only found out when a work friend was having a birthday and found out that he was a cousin of one of the kid in a group who I thought didn't like me cause they never talked to me. I wasn't mean or anything but I apparently "had a vibe". For me I thought no one wanted to be my friends with me, so I focused on studying and extra curricular activities as an outlet for feeling alone. Because of that everyone thought I was the guy, perfect at doing everything, always winning competitions and getting good grades. I was every teacher's favorite student cause I did really well and made the school look good. ...changed my whole perception of my high school experience. Explains so much why one time this girl who I thought was cute almost had a panic attack when she accidentally knocked over my Cello and broke it, I was trying to say it was ok... if only I knew. Since that revelation I became the person that reached out first and made sure everyone I met felt comfortable around me.
Bullying comes in different. From the obvious, to even a friend that constantly belittles you to make themselves feel better. All have the common thread that bullies lack empathy and awareness of their own actions.
Crazy enough this actually has happened to me. In 6th grade I was relentlessly harassed & bullied. It got so bad I had to do therapy. Fifteen years later while reflecting back on that time I realized I WAS THE BULLY. Because I couldn't tell who was my real friend or who was an enemy I spent most of my time being mean to everyone. After talking this over with my mom, she confirmed to me that the people most afraid of me were the teachers. I went to them because I was always scared, but my mother says they would call her constantly saying that thought I was going to murder a student. 🥺😱
@@lukasribin4168or maybe it was just like they said? They were actually scared of them because they were being irrational? I don't know, I'm not this person, but all possibilities have to be considered.
This is mind-blowing real. Came back to my hometown during lockdown and bit by bit my friends and family converged to tell me the hurtful things I've said to them then as a teen and now as an adult (31), or how I "kill the buzz" that has impacted them, but I'm a nerd! Not smart! Just trying to fit in... with a wry sense of humor masking as self-defense 😅 learning to be more sensitive to others feelings and not think that everything is out to get me helps.
This is why I stopped being so sarcastic - being harsh with someone isn’t always about being funny - you gotta be really really close to someone before you can start being sarcastic w them. It’s very self reflective to think about LOL
I was actually bullied alot, and didnt bully/tease anyone as a teen (as a younger kid yes, but I think by the time I was a teen I was self aware enough to not want to do to others what had been done to me) but it is true that the nerdy clique in our highschool were as mean, if not more than the mean girls/guys. And the really popular kids in my school were usually pretty nice and inoffensive, which honestly is what made them popular. The whole popular kids are mean, and nerds/outcasts are their poor super kind and nice victims movie cliche completely lacks nuance when comparing ut to real life.
In primary school I was always the target because I was shy. I was the weird kid who stayed child like the older we got due to undiagnosed autism. When I hit highschool I had had enough of being the victim and started lashing out at bullies. There was this one girl who enjoyed bullying my best friend (now boyfriend) because he was that 13 year old who looked MUCH younger then the rest of the class and he has ADHD. I was literally the only one who would stand up for us. She acted like I was bullying her for calling her out on bullying us. I do worry that I may have pushed back too hard. I just hated her how she would talk about how her family changed schools because her sister was being bullied yet she had no problem bullying others. Has anyone else noticed how the “friends” of bully’s won’t stand atop their friend from bullying but will apologise to the victim when there are no witnesses around. It’s clear that they don’t actually like the bully but are only their friend in order to prevent being bullied themselves
It’s stuff like this that made the show great. The could have gone the traditional route and had lemon get her revenge but they flipped the script and made her the villain. I honestly loved how Liz always gets showed their is two side to every story.
was in a mini reunion with my grade school classmates and i told them they were pretty much a bully back then and all they said was "ooh we're just kids, nobody remembers what happened back then" and then proceed to tell all the bad things they did to all our classmates. just shut my mouth after that and never went to any gatherings they organize now
I think I was quite vicious to people I didn’t know early in highschool but I remember it being because I thought they wanted to make fun of me (I was bullied in primary). The older I got the more mellow I became and I got friendlier. Thought I was ugly and no one liked me, but looking back I can tell these people did and actually wanted to be friends. I certainly didn't insult people when they tried to talk to me though, just a touch abrasive in tone sometimes. But in counter to that I'd be go out of my way nice in doing things for others. I think it has a neutralising effect.
Back at my school, I spent 5 years being mocked/beaten and bullied so hard cause I looked weird and I was an easy target. It was so bad I wanted to quit school. I'm only talking about this cause in my 6th year in school onwards, I changed. I was 181cm tall kid who went through 4 continents for an international competition (I live in West Africa).
Glad to be in a school that I was in. I wasn't popular by any standard but I wasn't bullied either. Popular girls were actual sweethearts. It was the teachers who were biased. I am still friendly with some of those girls, 20yrs after. Also I was weird af. They had so much material to bully me, they never did.
Lmao. “Sweet hearts”..you mean patronizing and condescending “kindness”?? Like they thought they were angels sent from heaven? They were probably nice to you because you’re pretty. Also just because they were “sweethearts” to you, doesn’t mean they were to everyone else.
@@lukasribin4168 lol.. bitter much? Also no. I was very plain. They didn't have to be yet they were nice and included me in things. They were nice to everyone. Bullying wasn't a culture in our school. We are not Americans.
@@Svengali764 bullying isn’t an American thing or a cultural thing, it’s a universal thing. Anyone can be a bullied tho. I am not doubting that the people around you are builles but it definitely does exist and you probably didn’t notice it
This was a surprisingly realistic depiction of bullying.
A real bully would never consider what they're doing as bullying.
A lot of real bullies know they are bullying people though...
@@alexschalk5439 plenty know whats up but a lot also just think it's either in good fun or that no real harm ever comes from it.
@@mystireon and that’s the most sympathetic type of bully
@@mystireon Or that their personal correctness is more important than another’s feelings
"oh yeah! I totally didnt know slamming someones head into a locker was bullying. I needed 20 years to figure it out" said a bully
Honestly this is surprisingly accurate. I’m a high-school teacher and liz’s experience is very real. The kids who outcast themselves (not the kids who just don’t naturally fit in) don’t realize how nasty they are treating everyone around them and it’s honestly sad because you feel bad for both the kids who get upset and the kid who is all alone because they don’t understand the defense mechanism is keeping them from having friends.
The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.
@@tprime2702damn that’s a dark saying 😂
yeah but her peers still ended up being bullies anyway, so yeah liz was a bit of a bully, but the adults didn't move on, they remained little kids, thats pathetic, they wanted to Carrie her, at least Liz somewhat had growth in her life, and she still felt remorse for what she was like when she was younger, the others just held onto their anger and stayed stagnant
@@rob67w it's a proverb, that often rings true
It’s a warning.
I always thought about this. Every adult when I was a teen said they were a nerd outcast, but that’s statistically impossible. A lot of people were popular bullies and won’t admit it.
I was totally a bully in high school and just told my class that (I now teach) a few weeks ago lol
i get what you are saying and it is a good point. but i graduated way back in 1990 and i see some of the people that were popular bully types when i was in highschool, i see them in my facebook feed through mutual acquaintances. and honestly a lot of them are regional or district managers and corporate types at various companies, and frankly they just arent in the same circle of friends i normally hang around. which just means they do exist but i never really encounter them anymore because even decades later they are still in different cliques. so maybe the adults you were around really were the bullied kids and thus the bullys arent in the circle you meet. all that said, it is a curious question to whether those people in that circle are still bullys or will admit to their own kids that they were bullys.
i myself was quite popular in highschool but i went to a poor side of town school where the rich preppy kids and jocks didnt really run things, they were there and some of them were bullys but they didnt mess with me and my friends who were the stoner and metal kids and would fight back. and i took up for other kids when i saw them being bullied, but of course i could just be saying that to make myself sound like a good guy now for all you know.
yeah my bullies probably could say they were nerds, i guess it's all relative
@@newwavepop I don't think people that bully others usually see it as bullying or at least figure they weren't a bully even if they did it sometimes.
When I was in school there were only a few people that were like cartoonish bullies. I was a nerd in some regards but was also pretty savage in others and I definitely bullied people from time to time
I lashed out at people but that was because everyone ostracized me for being trans. Then I became mean. But that’s not who I wanted to be. I regret that a lot.
A nice flip of the bully stereotype
This is what most bullies look like. If they were self aware they wouldn’t do it.
@Happy Thoughts Sadly some don't or get worse in college I befriended a girl a few yrs older than me in college when I first transfered she got me involved in the campus paper it was fun at first until I realized she always made me the butt of every joke she interupted me in conversations texted when I tried to talk to her when I paid for her food. I looked up to her but she used me and didn't care so one day I just left. She continues this behavoir with people younger than her taking them under her wing only to ask for favors and gaslight them and degrade them her excuse being she is more experienced and trying to help us out. In short she is a toxic person who although I feel sorry for I know is not a good person she doesn't ever apologize or admit her wrongdoings plus any other student who tries to steal a freshmans financial aide when they are older is just cruel and petty. That's like picking on someone who is still learning the ropes and doesn't know better. With friends like her who needs enemies. Anyway she transfred recently I hope she changes but at 25 I doubt it she picked on me at 18 in her 20s . I just hope no one experiences that feeling I went through with her. In the end I learned if someone constantly direspects you or others constantly no matter how small be wary of that person and realize your time is precious and everyone deserves to be treated with respect. If someone can't even give you that simple courtsey they are not worth your time or a good friend to have. And sadly some people don't bat an eye at their bad behavoir no matter how old they get. I understand your sentiment though I still believe people can change in college. We all have that oppurtunity in our lives it's something we have to want to do though. And not everyone wants to though. And depending how you treat others and how your life operates it can be a good or bad thing.
Surprisingly some nerds are mean and bullies. I've dealt with a few pretentious nerds that judt liked to insult people's intelligence and belittle people. And they wonder why people didn't like them.
@Happy Thoughts I don't see how that has anything to do with bullying. But the whole they them concept is a bit fringe to me. I understand transgendered people, but I think some people are too hung up on gender expression that they denounce all gender. Which is very different than trans.
@Happy Thoughts Oh makes sense. Im.sorry I didnt get it at first.
Tina Fey said she was a bully and exactly this type of bully. She said her mom wasn't nice to people, too.
We all took part in the bogus social hierarchy as kids. I wasn't popular in high school, but I had a small cluster of friends that avoided the big events that the "popular" kids took part in, and made fun of them for thinking it was important - certainly mean-spirited but we justified it because we perceived ourselves to be the ones being picked on by them. And I do have regrets about caving to peer pressure as a 10 year old to name-calling one of my classmates. I wanted to join in on their recess banter and joking, and wound up making fun of a guy who was actually very sweet and didn't deserve to be mocked, all because I wanted to fit in. Of course I was the ONLY one to get reprimanded by the teacher for it, so of course they then used that to tease me with even more.
i always found this sort of thing strange, because i went to a school on the poor bad side of town. and bullying meant literal physical assault, but it was the 80s and i was growing up watching all these John Hughes style teen comedies on cable constantly. and most of the time especially for girls the bullying seemed like tame vocal taunting. when i see mean girls type stuff like that i always wonder if girls realize that for boys bullying is actual physical violence, as well as vocal taunting and name calling and teasing.
or to word in a different way, boys will be bullied by bigger stronger meaner boys. girls seem like they are bullied by skinny pretty popular rich girls, and that is always weird to me because a girl could just go over there and punch her little skinny arrogant mouth. but i know, its a whole thing with many layers and nothing is that simple. but still its weird to me the differences in the way girls get bullied versus the way bots do.
Still bullying your math teacher. Why is she so mean?
@@BrokeredHeart
You really think everyone was just a part of a smaller clique? You weren't paying close enough attention.
@newwavepop True, but I think it's also a "bullying with a Hollywood lense" sort of thing, because I would get physically assaulted by girls in school on top of verbal harassment, and I went to school in the early 2000s. I was also bullied by boys both verbally/physically when I was younger, but not to the same extent as with the girls. I think Hollywood steers clear of any of that type of bullying unless they're doing some sort of 'no bullying' campaign in a documentary.
But I've definitely been aware about how boys have it bad physically with bullying a lot of the time, because people in general think it's ok to hit boys and its normal behavior for boys to exert 'dominance'. 🙄
But yeah, that's my experience with it. Sorry you went through so much, can't say I completely understand but I definitely sympathise.
I love the line "I was a nobody!" because it makes me realize that the way we perceive ourselves can be the total opposite of how others perceive us. We might think no one notices us, but maybe someone does. And just maybe that someone might be affected by us and the things we do or say.
"I don't know Kelsey, how's your mom's pill addiction?" is still one of my favorite lines from the entire show xD
Mine is, "Never go with a hippie to a second location."
@@flexitarianbeanqueen that's just practical advice
@@SjofnBM1989 as is any Jack Donaghy quote!
Mine is "Stop eating people's old french fries, pigeon. Have some self respect, don't you know you can fly?"
"But where's Little Abby gonna sit?"
“She’s the gay one!” - that line kills me everytime 😂😂
RIP
😄😍❤
It's funny because Liz Lemon in high school looked like Lindsay Amer.
I’m gay, and everything with this guy makes me laugh hysterically! He’s bi-larius!
@@zerjiozerjiobooooo 🍅🍅🍅🍅
Tina Fey is a genius haha. I love how she wrote Liz as so nerdy yet insecure, she bullied popular kids before they could even get near her to avoid any form of humiliation lmao. That’s never really been done before.
I mean I don’t blame her. She didn’t have the protective bubble of popularity like they did. And in the real world, popular people only reach out to others in order to be condescending or if they think they have superficial traits deserving of making them popular too. Bad reasoning all around.
@lukasribin4168 Thats really not true, or at least not true for everywhere. the popular kids in my high-school were popular Because they were genuinely nice and tried to make things good for all the kids. The prom king at my little brother's school was a stereotypical attractive kid but he was also genuinely the sweetest guy who just made friends with eveyone because he was kind.
@@lukasribin4168what? Popular people are usually pretty nice even if they are Hipócrates behind people back , they usually treat everyone nicely , at least that was my experience
Ever seen Mean Girls?
You sound like one of the insecure assholes this whole episode is making fun of
I love how passionately she says *"YOU'VE PICKED OUT A FONT!"* bacause she knows how serious we all are about our font!!!
Now let's see Paul Allen's card
Picking the right font is an art
Font can get you a rez at Dorsia on Friday night. Choose wisely.
My business card even has a watermark.
GE wouldn't have let him. Their font is Inspira.... It's an inside joke
"I'd like you to meet my wife with whom I've raised three beautiful dogs!" I love 30 rock
Which does imply that he is gay but deep in the closet, or infertile.
@@markusbarten8269 yes...he's gay.
@@markusbarten8269 mad closet case
@@markusbarten8269 in Liz's mind she probably assumed that she was helping ease him into coming out the closet but it look more like her actions caused them the only go deeper into the closet but nail the door shut. It makes her look even worse because what you can get from this is she traumatized him so bad and wanted to come out well as other people pointed out he went to insane levels to try to deny that he was gay likely out of fear that if Liz has a measuring point that will mean he'll get it worse from others if he comes out so he has to deny deny deny. It makes sense since you remember the woman she insulted about her mother's pill addiction has to go to therapy and had a relapse just from coming back in contact with Liz for just that amount of time they were in conversation!
I mean this pretty much set up all the bad things Liz caused and never tried the really take responsibility for or the beginnings of her well-intentioned attempts to help people but causes her to suffer the road to hell is paved in good intentions... To others! In her case the Only Hell she gets is having to admit or continue to deny that ain't she herself has issues! Remember what happened with the Grossman girl the one who was acting like a s*** because she was hiding from her husband but because Liz just couldn't stand a woman acting like a bad stereotype she had to expose that woman and pretty much exposed her false identity to say insane ex-husband all because she wanted to prove to Jack that she is a good influence on women and like the chick said herself when Liz outed her. You meddling b****! She doesn't know when to leave well enough alone. On the plus side at least this gave a very good reason why someone like Jenna would hang around her. They're like two peas in a pod different versions of narcissism and female viciousness the difference is Jenna at least admits that she is a f****** vicious narcissist or I think the better term is she's just terrible at hiding it thanks Rachel Point Liz on the other hand is in full-on denial and when she finally accepts it she decides everybody else's fault not hers. Still to this day don't know who's worse LOL. But I have to go with Liz:-)
@@markusbarten8269 Or maybe he is flamboyant and asexual.
I watched this as a joke and kinda surprised myself with the nugget of truth behind this. Her social anxiety led her to believe everyone was going to make fun of her so she developed this defense mechanism of being nasty before they could bully her, in the end making her the bully to preemptively “defend” herself but actually outcasting herself.
Rich 50 is middle class 38
I was wondering if anyone else caught that. Clever line, also arrogant, especially in his case - he doesn't look as good as he thinks he does!
I'm lower middle class 40, so is that like rich 90? Would say like 70-80 but some days after work it hurts to get out of my van.
"Just to be clear, we're not making out. That would be social suicide." - 30 Rock
"You can't join the mathletes. That's social suicide." - Mean Girls
could it be because Tina and Amy wrote both of these?
It feels like projection now more than ever.
I tried joining the chess club in high school and those nerds beat me back to back and rubbed it in my face so I left.
Nerds can be just as mean as anybody.
A game*
Worse, really.
That is true.
Beating you at chess isn't bullying
@@zapkvr I didn't mention bullying at all.
I was mostly a nerd for nearly all my public school life. I told myself that when and if I got half as pretty as the girls who were mean to me, I would never be mean to them. Halfway through high school, I noticed I had become popular. Not for any reason. I was involved in a lot of things that interested me. By the time that happened, some of my nerd friends had abandoned me and started rumors about me. Even went as far as to try and get me to not be accepted to the college of my choice. That's when I realized that anyone could be a bully. Appearances be damned. It's how you treat people.
A lot of popular people are popular because they are just great people to be around.
@Midnight Raven Last I heard, they all lead pretty lonely lives. I suppose it's karma
Oh no, white girl problems. 🙄🙄🙄
@@dhrgkbqxtjr2743 Uh no, everyone can have problems like this. What's your problem?
@@dhrgkbqxtjr2743 Oh look. Another Liz Lemon.
I think the problem is nerds/geeks expect people to bully them and up acting defensive and antisocial.
It happened to me in high school I was a geek and there were some people who picked on me, but at the same time I was the one who never gave anyone a chance, because I expected the worst out of them. Like Liz’s telescope scene if someone walked up to me and tried to take an interest in what I was doing I’d snub them like they were beneath me, because I assumed they were either setting me up for an insult or taking pity on me.
I went through the same thing, I had trust issues too, and when it came to socializing I felt like a lost cause cuz of how awkward I was. It felt more comfortable having one BFF and staying out of people's social circles.
I think today it's most notable. The internet allows for anonymity to be a thing, and for kids to bully anybody.
We found out the hard way that it's not just sticks and stones that can break our bones.
😂😂
I think because I’m silent, I kind of scare my classmates
Not out of a sense of superiority? You're not a true Venture.
I feel like this now in adulthood.
"Gayer than the volleyball scene in Top Gun". Comedy gold
The writer who thought that up needs a bonus, LOL!
When it came out, my Uncle kept talking about how big tom cruises arms got, and then my dad was like "Dude, you're acting gayer than that scene"
@@renzo7503 I mean everybody. It. Those who say otherwise are just f****** lying! I mean Borderlands 2 reference that scene and their version was Farm or dare then what they were referencing... t h o u g h said guys did try to kill you so there's a mix of action in that to!
I watched the volleyball scene in Top Gun. That was pretty gay...
The meanest girls I encountered in high school were my “best friends” we were all apart of the school’s academic elite and they enjoyed putting me down, as if we were competing.
That's my experience too!
I noticed this a lot in my high school 20ish years ago. The people that felt like outcasts were generally rude to anybody that tried to interact with them out of fear or jealousy or something and always talked trash about everyone.
I guess it's all perspective I thought it was obvious that I had social anxiety and was scared to speak or even exist but apparently everyone thought I thought I was too good for them
@@roslyn-rose124 really everyone has some level of social anxiety, it’s shown here where the blonde girl is scared to even engage Liz because she knows she’s gonna get chewed out, that’s social anxiety too. If a popular kid tries to be nice to a less popular kid they aren’t thinking “ohh poor thing has social anxiety” they’re thinking “wow what a jerk” because to some extent social anxiety was something they were dealing with too and they felt slighted.
@@MrRyan-wu4jx being afraid to talk to someone because they're mean isn't social anxiety but rest seems about right
That was something I noticed in my own high school too. I wasn’t a popular kid or an outcast, but the students that popular culture would stereotype as bullies (i.e. athletes, popular kids, etc) were some of the nicest people in my school. They were passionate about school, and nice to teachers and other students. Meanwhile the only bullies I saw at my school were the same social outcasts that popular culture would stereotype to be the sympathetic underdogs. They were mean and negative and seem to go out of their way to ruin the day of other people. It was certainly surprising for me, considering how TV and movies portray high school life.
@@Mia-dt3gl wow. I never thought that someone had a similar experience. I was so shy and going through stuff that I never interacted outside my own circle besides my own crippling social anxiety but some of the nicest people I knew in high school were the popular ones and they were, overall, awesome
This has to be one of the funniest episodes, and I like how they made Liz the teenage bully because she really does have an air of “not like other girls” to her and it’s clear that she never quite outgrows it. Jack’s episodes where he’s fighting either Devon or Kaylie are top notch too 😂
"We not making out, that would be social suicide"
“You can’t join mathletes, it’s social suicide.”
A fifty dollar coupon to Outback. Liz: "I want to go to there."
I love it when she says that, LOL
“Rich 50 is middle class 30”
Who ever wrote that line thank you, brilliant just brilliant
Honestly this situation is my worst nightmare. I was bullied and socially ostracized throughout school, and it still deeply affects me. To have people that used to bully me, or even that I used to be friends with turn around and tell me that I was the mean one would be a punch in the gut.
It's all natural
They’re gaslighting her, which is a behavior the B-word describes, and this comment section is cheering them on.
@Attmay I agree. I think some actual mean girl privileged types are using this scene to flip the script and play victim.
I was in the same boat and I wonder about the same thing now.
I actually had to leave school because of how I was treated.
I have suffered tremendously since as well. I’m planning the end to my life because of the consequences of my position in this world. I am very tired and utterly destroyed.
So if anyone ever tried to spin things the other way, I would be livid and mortified.
But unfortunately it is common for the victims to be demonized especially if they had disadvantages and a lack of power/privilege that got them bullied in the first place…because that means those problems, vulnerabilities and adversity will still exist beyond high-school..still taken advantage of by others.
Friends who abandoned us or perhaps want to absolve their own guilt..will go with the narrative that we somehow deserved the mistreatment.
And of course our bullies, left to their own devices, “winning” the game..are the ones who get to create whatever narrative they desire while we suffer in the shadows, unwittingly.
I was always hyper-aware of my own missteps or whenever I accidentally hurt someone’s feelings. Which was rare. I would feel bad about the most minor of things, for years down the line. Still do. That combined with my own experiences and the fact that I wasn’t the type of person who could ever get away with being the slightest bit mean (I would be annihilated even for a foot-in-mouth comment because people were already looking for reasons to attack me) meant that it was actually impossible for me to have become a bully.
So if someone wanted to act like I was the bad one all along, they would have to do some major mental gymnastics. But hey, I wouldn’t put it past them and the type of people they are/were.
A couple I feel bad for because they also had similar disadvantages to me so I go easier on them in my mind, but I refuse to be lenient with the ones who were well-off and privileged out their asses..the ones who are living it up today. They had no excuse to pick on me.
I’m so sorry you also went through such torment and now have to worry about this nonsense on top of it.
@@lukasribin4168please don’t end your life. You matter, and even if other people have hurt you, you deserve to live. Things may be bad now, but you never know what things will look like down the line. Please don’t rob yourself of a future happy you. Sending you love and strength.
It’s even more hilarious that Tina Fey wrote the screenplay and starred in Mean Girls
There was nothing funny about her stereotypes of homeschooling. Anti-Southern bigotry is stealth yt supremacy.
I was about to say this is literally Janice/Cady 😂😂😂
I love the switch. The nerd is the bully and the popular girls were the victims lol
Mean Girls (which Tina Fey worked on and was in) had that too
Academic elitism creates as much bullying as the attractiveness hirarchy in high school. I had half my classes with students labelled "gifted" and half my classes with kids without any special label. The gifted classes had insane competition and even racism. The "normal" classes had students that would try to bully each other back to mediocrity for being smart, but they spent more time trying to look good on social media.
Sounds Chinese
I went to a gifted girls highschool.
Dear God it was even worse.
Not only did we get classified according to that, but I had to deal with abusive tiger parents, and just overall a more difficult school to excel in. All while being alone AF. I swear I met thing one girl whose friendship I really cherished, and she moved to a whole other country the following year. F the world. It was just so bad.
Edit: I wished I was homeschooled 😅
Gifted kids , when in large groups, are insanely aware of any and all psychology tricks and utilize any strategy found in a fill-the-blank Robert Greene novel.
I think homeschooling should be mandatory and this comment section has convinced me of that.
You mean like how they treated Bart in the first season of *The Simpsons?*
I felt horrible in high school. So insecure and self conscious. I still went to my 20 year reunion and it was so fun! The drunken popular guys told me “I remember you: the really quiet, nice girl.” Is that how they saw me? I wasted so much time being so worried. High school still sucked, but I wish I would have given it less thought at the time.
This. As I look back i realize things weren't as bad as I made it out to be in my mind.
It just goes to show how we keep believing and getting deceived by these negative messages that only serve to hamper us from thriving and flourishing
I mean is that much of a compliment?
I feel like if you really felt that horrible, you would have never gone to the reunion.
I would not touch my reunion with a ten-foot pole.
3:01 love that Jack explains it to her as if they were both still in High School.
"She's the gay one！" 10 years later and I'm still laughing XOXO
I was this kind of bully too. Ish.
My dad always told my siblings and I that we were above everyone else. People picked on me and I remember in high school that someone tried to engage with me and I started getting shitty with them. Then i realized they weren't being mean.
I changed that day. Also I dont engage with my family. So I'm very nice now :)
What a horrible thing to teach your kids! Glad you grew past it
I have seen this many times
I think I understood way too late just how judgey and sarcastic I could be, thinking I was the funny underdog
@@henryahoy I always hoped that Daria would eventually come to that realization...
Proud of you!
I went to school with a kid like Liz! He was considered a nerd, but he also didn’t take any sh!t! But over 8th grade summer he really turned into a huge bully and was that way throughout high school. It was crazy to see!
Maybe the poor guy just finally snapped and had enough.
@@lukasribin4168 No "poor" from me. If you snap you should do something more explosive than just turn into a bully yourself.
This realistically applies. At my 20s now, previously in an all girls high school, the blonde pretty girls were always sweet. It was the SuperWhoLock girls who were really mean, just when I tried to engage in mutual interests. Those girls who had an air of superiority and made you feel like dirt for wanting to make new friends. Weird.
I get it if they thought that they where being bullied, I though I was bullied by my classmates but they where just actually jockig, they treat eachother that way.
It’s so true! The NLOG’s were meaner to me than any queen bee stereotype
What does blonde have to do with it?
Some of the most bullied kids I knew were blonde and physically unattractive.
Also “sweetness” doesn’t mean sh*t. That’s a mask that a lot of pretty people wear and it’s condescending more than anything else. Also you’re probably suffering from the Halo effect.
Who are SuperWhoLock girls? What does that mean?
“Rich 50 is middle-class 38”!
I absolutely loved this arc she broke that nerd who got bullied in school and that is why she turned out to be like this trope but instead, she bullied everyone and made everything so much better.
The word is a slur in and of itself.
This episode is funny to me because it is so true. The worst bullies I encountered were my fellow nerds. Ironically they kept claiming to be victims. They were only targeted because they themselves were a**holes to most people. Having said this only a small number of nerds were unpopular. Most of the nerds in my high school were actually well liked by the general student population. The kindest ones during my time in high school were the jocks. It was the jocks who were the most considerate and polite.
There's a difference between geek, nerd& dweeb and this episode emphasises that... In my country they're called something different and the nerds lead the school, geeks can still be popular but the dweebs/weirdos (which has nothing to do with brains and very little to do with looks) were the outcasts.
Why were they being “targeted” at all?
Your story sounds way too convenient. I call BS.
@@lukasribin4168 Everything I said is true. Most nerds were actually liked by most classmates. The only nerds who got bullied were bullies themselves. Unfortunately the teachers ignored the bullying done by the small number of nerds who were a**holes. Teachers just assumed all nerds are victims.
I hear you. A lot of popular athletes at my high school were actually nice kids, and smart too(were often in AP honors courses).
Tv portrayals for me, were not realistic.
@@sunflowerlady2057 Sucks, the experience I had was the stereotypical jocks -- for the most part. There were some nice guys who were jocks, but most of the jocks sucked and were dicks.
I can't get over "let's all do the Diane!"
i was a very small kid. i was always way shorter than the other kids in my grade. in order to not get bullied in school, i was always super-aggressive (a la a good offense makes a good defense). i was always afraid that people saw through it and something bad would happen. then when I was about 26, I ran into one of my old classmates and he told me that everyone in school was terrified of me. Me??? I was half their size!!!! So I guess I can relate to this sketch. still baffles me!
Yeah, the short ones are always the meanest.
So you were your schools chihuahua
Same, although i grew out of it around the sixth grade. I’m honestly embarrassed about it.
i had a weird opposite problem, i started high school in 86 and i was 6'5". my entire life i had always been by far the tallest kid in school, but because i was so tall i was also almost unimaginably skinny and thus physically weak. so every boy in school would try to bully me, any time any kid in school would find out they could bully the guy thats a foot taller than them it would have every kid taking out all the bullying they had put up with out on me. luckily my junior year i found my confidence and a whole new group of friends and scene and became pretty popular. but up until then for 10 of my 12 years in school i had had a terrible time on non stop bullying and lived in fear og even going to school and even the walk there or home. and i always tell people when they see these school shootings happen, that i can totally understand how this event came to be and not to lay all the blame at the feet of the shooters.
@Ryan Gallagher actually, his reaction to this scene is very much about him, wtf are you on about?
Wow, I didn't realize Casey Novak had such a rough time in high school. I guess without the SVU squad she went off the rails.
ISTG, Diane Neal was hilarious in this episode.
I always thought I was the bullied one but thinking about it now I'm certain I insulted at least two people to tears in highschool
I mean tbf in reality, people can be both bullied and a bully. Doesn’t excuse anything ofc, but sometimes people (especially kids) lash out in self-defense
_Nice_
My extremely conceited friend cried to her mother because I ran past her backpack with a pencil and the pencil drew a line on the backpack (that you could literally just erase).
I got reprimanded to hell for it.
Some people cry and play victim for the stupidest reasons.
She was not a good friend to me at all and I wasn’t even allowed to joke around with her.
But she was allowed to treat me like a second class citizen and think of herself as superior to me.
I had another friend (when I was much younger) who called me names (but nothing about my looks) and made me cry at least twice, but she apologized and told me she had anger issues for her own reasons. I don’t hold it against her. She was a nice friend otherwise and did not think she was better than anyone else.
I know she felt guilty about it even years later. She was eventually ostracized herself. I don’t even consider her a bully at all..and I had a lot of bullies.
She’s probably the only one who feels bad about making me upset, and she’s not even one of the people who deserves to feel bad!
That’s the irony.
It was the people who made fun of my appearance and used that as an excuse to treat me like less than an animal, who are the real nasty bullies in my eyes. The lowest is the low. And they never changed. I never cried in front of them. Yet they are the ones who hurt me the most.
The popular privileged ones are the worst because they had even less of an excuse to be a pos to me.
The whole arc of Liz turning out to not only have been, but also still be, a straight-up bully while never realizing that is fascinating to me. So well done.
Even as an adult, you never forget your bully. Sad part the bully remains unaware and alot of times carry that same trait into adulthood
When I look back on high school, I too may have been Liz. Lol.
This is every teenager who tries to act like chandler bing and ends up being a jerk with self esteem issues
Teenager?
Chandelier Bong is an a-hole
Chandler Bing himself states multiple times that he uses humor as a defense mechanism for intimacy issues
Those aren't two different things, Chandler is a jerk with self esteem issues. That's his whole personality.
Isn't Chandler more self- deprecating?
"The Dianne?!?!
🤣😂🤣😂
I missed this series but no I have a show to binge on....lmao
"LEMON!!!" "No don't sink to her level!" 💀🤣
Hahahaha!, She was gonna smack the heck outta Lemon!!
1:05 Rob "Sus"man?! 😂😂😂 yall jus gonna ignore that comedy gold?!!
“Still think I’m gayer than the volleyball scene in Top Gun?” 🤣🤣 the writing on this show was top notch
NBC had nowhere to go but up from its post-Tartikoff dark age.
Dear god...I’m Liz lemon. It all makes sense. The self righteous hypocrisy, the barely concealed self loathing...the need to insult and sarcastically jab to defend against imagined slight.
Help me!
have you tried pot
@@Saturns_Return I did actually. I found that if I had a steady supply of weed I was a much laid back individual.
Sadly a 24 seven weed supply is not only difficult to maintain it’s also unrealistic given societies rather prudish understanding of aforementioned herb.
No, you live with it....accept what you are, and understand that change is not possible for everyone. Learn to love the void that is your self esteem, and relish your addiction of petty judgement and futile self righteous loathing.
Be a Lemon, be a paty, be a *LEMON PARTY.*
@@holitinne Lemonism!
@@holitinne CHANGE IS POSSIBLE FOR EVERYONE they just have to be the ones to push themselves. Don’t let them think this is their only option
"I want to go to there."...I always say that when I see an Outback Steakhouse...every time. If the people in the car understand it...they are still my friends.
When kids made fun of me, I was a little too autistic to realize they were Messing with me, and nobody knew i was autistic. I’d always freak out at provocation until I realized what was going on with my brain.
"messing with you" is only a pretext that people say to bully you lol
The majority of it was pretty obvious to me. I was bullied and looked down on since daycare. I only found out about Autism and ADHD a couple years ago. Sometimes I do think about something someone said a long time ago and have that realization going, "Hey!...that was rude." 😅 Can't really say much back now. I was just the quiet girl in HS that got her nose pierced during a Biology Lecture. 😅 A Freshman thought I was popular because I knew one or two people from every clique. They all had one thing in common and they were decent and compassionate individuals.
When did you find out?
@@amadi5x5 I relate to a lot of what you described!
I’m almost 23, I’ve known I’m autistic for about a year.
Honestly, I had a friend who thought everything was a slight. Everything was a provocation. Now he's figured out he's autistic, but I still don't like the fact that I had to apologize for every little thing. Words getting received a certain way doesn't actually make it that way.
jacks delivery "just to be clear we're not making out that would be social suicide" gets me every time
Just to be clear we're not making out, that would be social suicide
30 Rock had so many amazing side characters. Kudos to the actors for portraying them so fantastically.
All of them were better actors than Tina Fey, who was barely passable as a Muppet movie villain. Elaine Stritch finally knew what a successful series look like after she lost *The Golden Girls* to Bea Arthur and after *The Ellen Burstyn Show* both failed miserably and enabled the rise of the godawful Megan Mullally.
Liz doing "The Diane" is the ultimate Oof+Oopsie moment.
I was bullied and I bullied. That’s how we learn to be in a society. I think I’m more balanced now, where I know how to stick up for myself but also try and be kind to all as much as I can.
Love the casting detail of Liz being the same actress (not just a play on shows that’d do the same so we know it’s the same character but also save money on a new actor/actress) but also showing that she hasn’t grown like the others have.
Biggest awakening ever was when I was at a summer camp and (I thought) joking with one of the kids there. It wasn't until he snapped "why are you being so mean to me" that I realized we where not joking at all. I apologized and never spoke to him again but it really messed me up to realize the way my friends treated me wasn't normal.
Truly most kids don't realize when they're bullying someone. And sometimes they are ostracized more by themselves than other kids.
A lot of us go through this I feel; people are fake nice to us to make fun of us and so we put up a layer of sarcasm and deflection and so when someone is actually trying to be nice to us for real we push them away.
But how do you tell who is being genuinely nice vs. fake nice. It doesn’t seem fair at all when you put up a layer of sarcasm and deflection because you already have decided the person is guilty already without enough proof.
Even the grown-up Liz is a bully, she bullies Lutz, Toofer and Frank all the time.
"She's the gay one!" I'm dying 🤣
This is genuinely my worst fear. Not that I was secretly a bully (I was an actual loner), but that the people I grew up with secretly hated me.
I love this as a quiet kid who was friends with mostly “nerds” and two popular girls. The popular girls were so so nice to me. They played volleyball and literally were so chill. Only cared that we had a good time.
My “nerdy” best friend was so competitive. Every thing I did good was me trying to be better than her. Everything I did bad she would mock me for and bring it up every second she could. I felt like every time I was with her I felt worse and worse about myself. I would ask her why she would say the things she said and she just told me I was sensitive. So I stayed thinking that I was just being sensitive.
I had a girlfriend like that.
Your friend probably had to worry more and could only cope by playing catch-up. Perhaps she saw that you were being treated kindly by the popular kids and she wasn’t, the difference in treatment is insulting enough.
Also popular kids tend to be privileged and thus have less to worry about, less stress, mroe security in their worth..but let me tell you..if you were ever to question their worth or take away their lofty position, they would probably be quick to turn far nastier than your friend ever was.
You need to appreciate the context.
@lukasribin4168 I will say you also don’t have context and you are assuming about a person you don’t even know.
Just because you feel insecure does not mean in any way mean you should treat your friends badly. If every time I say anything good about my life and you have 5 bad things about it, I do not want anything to do with you.
I spent 4 years trying to hype her up, make her happy and confident with new experiences. Introduce her to my “popular” friends and other nice people that weren’t as popular. Each and every one of them told me to never bring that person around.
The idea that someone is allowed to be mean to someone because they are coping needs to die. I am insecure, I have been severely bullied, I have been jealous. But never in my life have I ever put people I called my friends down for good things in their life.
I have had NASTY popular friends and NASTY unpopular friends. Morale of the story: just because someone is popular doesn’t mean they are automatically evil. Just because someone is not popular does not mean they can stomp all over people’s feelings because they feel they need to “catch up”
As someone who has been a total loser my whole life, this whole excuse is so stupid and dumb.
Saaaaaame, for real. The pretty and popular girls would invite me to do normal fun stuff, and trust me some of them were into Star Wars and things like that too, but they also were into makeup and Britney Spears and fashion too! My mother was literally exactly like Liz Lemon in this, if Liz Lemon was also a creepy controlling antisocial hoarder who refused to bathe. She forbade me from hanging out with those cool popular girls.
My “best friend” of a decade tried to force her prudishness down my throat and make me a cold, uptight, frumpy, dateless, kissless, boring mcboringface weirdo nerd into obscure media that was only popular with senior citizens in the 70’s.
@@mystiquevue3541off topic but just to let you know. You’re not a loser, nobody is. And we all have insecurities, You’re definitely right that being insecure doesn’t justify being a bullied tho.
dont say sorry with the word _if_ on it. say sorry for what was done and said.
I'm sorry if this joke offended you /s
@@hiimjustin8826 The best way is to say, "I'm sorry that you chose to take offense at what I said."
Sorry, not sorry.
"say sorry for what was done and said."
"I'm sorry for what was done" is not the right way to apologize, either.
@@AisuruMirai i mean be sorry for what you did and what you said, not depending on how the other feels. the word _if_ makes the apology empty and worthless.
Man, Liz’s retort was locked and loaded lol
The teen blonde girl sounded nice when she asked about it tho
Can we all take a second to appreciate Diane Neal’s divine delivery of “Outback Steakhoooouse”
I was the popular kid without knowing I was popular ... I thought everyone didn't want to talk to me or acted weird when they did because I did something. Turns out they were all afraid of making a bad impression when they finally got enough courage to talk to me. I never got invited to parties cause I gave everyone anxiety if I was there.
I only found out when a work friend was having a birthday and found out that he was a cousin of one of the kid in a group who I thought didn't like me cause they never talked to me.
I wasn't mean or anything but I apparently "had a vibe". For me I thought no one wanted to be my friends with me, so I focused on studying and extra curricular activities as an outlet for feeling alone. Because of that everyone thought I was the guy, perfect at doing everything, always winning competitions and getting good grades. I was every teacher's favorite student cause I did really well and made the school look good.
...changed my whole perception of my high school experience. Explains so much why one time this girl who I thought was cute almost had a panic attack when she accidentally knocked over my Cello and broke it, I was trying to say it was ok... if only I knew.
Since that revelation I became the person that reached out first and made sure everyone I met felt comfortable around me.
She broke your cello?! Who wouldn’t have a panic attack? Lol but I can tell you were a super nice guy
Bullying comes in different. From the obvious, to even a friend that constantly belittles you to make themselves feel better. All have the common thread that bullies lack empathy and awareness of their own actions.
Empathy is a buzzword used by cultists to emotionally manipulate people into rationalizing degenerate behavior.
Well this is the most depressing comments section ever
I like it, a lot of introspective and growth is a good thing
We are all awful, horrible people.
Nah wasnt the bully
Actually got bullied until I went to middle school . In highschool and still havent been bullied
RUclips comments section: the only therapy most of us can afford
I started typing in "vo" in the search bar and RUclips knew where I was headed - "volleyball scene from Top Gun"
I was a wallflower in High school, I’m best depicted as those Extras in the background
Crazy enough this actually has happened to me. In 6th grade I was relentlessly harassed & bullied. It got so bad I had to do therapy.
Fifteen years later while reflecting back on that time I realized I WAS THE BULLY. Because I couldn't tell who was my real friend or who was an enemy I spent most of my time being mean to everyone.
After talking this over with my mom, she confirmed to me that the people most afraid of me were the teachers. I went to them because I was always scared, but my mother says they would call her constantly saying that thought I was going to murder a student. 🥺😱
Maybe you were just rightfully angry and the teachers made a big deal out of it, thus contributing to your demonization..?
@@lukasribin4168or maybe it was just like they said? They were actually scared of them because they were being irrational? I don't know, I'm not this person, but all possibilities have to be considered.
Being scared of a child is wild. I'm sorry you didn't get the help you need. All bullies are victims first.
Im so mad that all i can do is dance. LMAO
This is easily the best episode of the show.
Lol Jack "that would be social suicide"
Mean girls 😂
GENIUS writing!!!! I still laugh at this after seeing it over a dozen times!
We're so proud of Liz/Tina here in PA...You can watch 30 rock 10 times and it's always funny!
This is mind-blowing real. Came back to my hometown during lockdown and bit by bit my friends and family converged to tell me the hurtful things I've said to them then as a teen and now as an adult (31), or how I "kill the buzz" that has impacted them, but I'm a nerd! Not smart! Just trying to fit in... with a wry sense of humor masking as self-defense 😅 learning to be more sensitive to others feelings and not think that everything is out to get me helps.
This is why I stopped being so sarcastic - being harsh with someone isn’t always about being funny - you gotta be really really close to someone before you can start being sarcastic w them. It’s very self reflective to think about LOL
I was actually bullied alot, and didnt bully/tease anyone as a teen (as a younger kid yes, but I think by the time I was a teen I was self aware enough to not want to do to others what had been done to me) but it is true that the nerdy clique in our highschool were as mean, if not more than the mean girls/guys. And the really popular kids in my school were usually pretty nice and inoffensive, which honestly is what made them popular. The whole popular kids are mean, and nerds/outcasts are their poor super kind and nice victims movie cliche completely lacks nuance when comparing ut to real life.
In primary school I was always the target because I was shy. I was the weird kid who stayed child like the older we got due to undiagnosed autism. When I hit highschool I had had enough of being the victim and started lashing out at bullies.
There was this one girl who enjoyed bullying my best friend (now boyfriend) because he was that 13 year old who looked MUCH younger then the rest of the class and he has ADHD. I was literally the only one who would stand up for us. She acted like I was bullying her for calling her out on bullying us. I do worry that I may have pushed back too hard. I just hated her how she would talk about how her family changed schools because her sister was being bullied yet she had no problem bullying others.
Has anyone else noticed how the “friends” of bully’s won’t stand atop their friend from bullying but will apologise to the victim when there are no witnesses around. It’s clear that they don’t actually like the bully but are only their friend in order to prevent being bullied themselves
0:22 is that ADA Casey Novak?
Yes it is!
It sure is! And ADA Alex Cabbot showed up in season 1 as well
It’s stuff like this that made the show great. The could have gone the traditional route and had lemon get her revenge but they flipped the script and made her the villain. I honestly loved how Liz always gets showed their is two side to every story.
"SHES THE GAY ONE!"
lol I was not ready hahab
I'm sorry but seeing Diane Neal in this scene is so hilarious! I'm so used to seeing her as Casey Novak on L&OSVU. 😂🤣
was in a mini reunion with my grade school classmates and i told them they were pretty much a bully back then and all they said was "ooh we're just kids, nobody remembers what happened back then" and then proceed to tell all the bad things they did to all our classmates. just shut my mouth after that and never went to any gatherings they organize now
4:09 ‘she’s the Gay One’ 😂🤣😂 just soo wth. Love this show and can rewatch clips forever.
I think I was quite vicious to people I didn’t know early in highschool but I remember it being because I thought they wanted to make fun of me (I was bullied in primary). The older I got the more mellow I became and I got friendlier. Thought I was ugly and no one liked me, but looking back I can tell these people did and actually wanted to be friends. I certainly didn't insult people when they tried to talk to me though, just a touch abrasive in tone sometimes. But in counter to that I'd be go out of my way nice in doing things for others. I think it has a neutralising effect.
I want to go to there.
I learned the english language watching this show
Seeing this episode when I was a nerdy high schooler made me reevaluate my cattiness
My favorite 30 Rock episode
The god pooped on me line got me good this time.
Right?
These actors played some volleyball here and freaking nailed it.
She made Braverman almost cry...Oh,dear!
"He was the first gay guy I ever kissed"
Alex looking at the camera and seeming to be THIS close the breaking character helped drive that joke home even more.
This is the best episode of the show, I think. “Lemon, would you buy my mulch?”
I still use "I want to go to there." All the time
So Rob Sussman turned out NOT to be gay... Liz, how could you get it so wrong?
Back at my school, I spent 5 years being mocked/beaten and bullied so hard cause I looked weird and I was an easy target. It was so bad I wanted to quit school.
I'm only talking about this cause in my 6th year in school onwards, I changed. I was 181cm tall kid who went through 4 continents for an international competition (I live in West Africa).
Glad to be in a school that I was in. I wasn't popular by any standard but I wasn't bullied either. Popular girls were actual sweethearts. It was the teachers who were biased. I am still friendly with some of those girls, 20yrs after. Also I was weird af. They had so much material to bully me, they never did.
Private schools in small towns.
@@thelastmanonearth2631 lol what?
Lmao. “Sweet hearts”..you mean patronizing and condescending “kindness”??
Like they thought they were angels sent from heaven?
They were probably nice to you because you’re pretty.
Also just because they were “sweethearts” to you, doesn’t mean they were to everyone else.
@@lukasribin4168 lol.. bitter much? Also no. I was very plain. They didn't have to be yet they were nice and included me in things. They were nice to everyone. Bullying wasn't a culture in our school. We are not Americans.
@@Svengali764 bullying isn’t an American thing or a cultural thing, it’s a universal thing. Anyone can be a bullied tho. I am not doubting that the people around you are builles but it definitely does exist and you probably didn’t notice it