The Kirby rep requiring the husband to be home is probably a sales tactic. "I have to check with my spouse" is a common soft no. If you have both decision makers are present, you can't use the absent spouse as an excuse to put the sales rep off.
It's sadly a lot more than that. In my area, at least, It has to do with who they target, and having them be able to qualify for the credit used to buy the vacuum. It was a way for them to be able to deny claims they pressured someone into signing loan papers if it went to court/collections. They also used it as a way to avoid canceling contracts. If 2 people signed the contract to get the vacuum, 2 people have to sign to cancel.
Coming here to say this! I just attended a timeshare pitch where they required if you had a spouse/live-in partner, you had to bring them & while they didn't say so, it was obviously bc they knew "I can't spend $20k without my partner's approval" would be a common response without it
A few years ago I had someone ask me the same question. It was a genuine question from this company because it was a significant $ amount expense and the person said that the company had been caught out where one person had agreed to the work but their partner said no. As a single person it never occurred to me that this could happen.
I had a window salesman at my door two weeks ago who was being really pushy while I stood there with headphones in my ears and raw chicken on one hand because he interrupted dinner. The guy seriously asked to talk to my husband. I told him I don't have one (I do, but wtf) and he said, "Good that makes it easier!" Said the quiet part out loud.
My son's father abandoned us after finding out that he would be born with hydrocephalus and possible spinal bifida. He was the one who wanted kids and even got me pregnant without my consent. I didn't know about the medical issues until much later in the pregnancy unfortunately. It's sad but men do this all the time. They don't want to have to help out more
Anytime I hear stories about mormons I think of the one time two members showed up to my home and I answered the door in a BLUE DINOSAUR onsie. They immediately laughed so hard, I mentioned I'm a nightshift worker and they said sorry for waking me and left.
Nice. I answered the door wearing a rainbow color shirt and they fled, no one's been back since. Shirt had absolutely nothing to do with queer people (though I am queer), but migraine, it was just colorful because color is fun.
Jordn and McKay (mostly post-LDS channel) just did a story about LDS/MLM pipeline. They played a couple of your clips and gave you a lovely shout out. Something not mentioned in the story is that Utah is a very friendly state to MLM companies and there are quite a few headquartered there. Also, Utah's long time Senator Orrin Hatch was instrumental in the 1970s to keep vitamins/herbal remedies out of FDA regulation which I think helped the oil based MLMs gain popularity.
Was about to comment this! Highly recommend their video to anyone wanting to know more. One of my favorite quotes from that video was "mormon missionaries are used to selling something that nobody wants." 😂
I bopped off to watch the Jordon and McKay video you referenced. It was excellent, a real deep dive into why LDS members are so into MLMs. Thanks for the reference. And the ending was the best part-their cat got right into the camera shot!
I was thinking of this exact video when she prefaced that story. That was a rly well done story & other anti mlm creators have discussed this but J&M def had the ability to do an inside look from having been in the church. They rly prey on that denomination & it’s so sad. If you’re already in one cult you’re at such a higher rate to be sucked into another.
The first story makes me so angry. That Mary Kay lady is not just clueless, but evil. I would have just got up and left as soon as she said "When you lose the baby." OMG! 😮
So if we chuck a few cloves of garlic their way, they'll flee into the shadows from whence they came? I mean, nothing else gets them to leave, so it's worth a try.
My elementary school did book fairs. They used to take away one of your recesses a day if you didn't purchase at least one thing. I guess maybe they were getting kickbacks. I didn't want to repeat the year before when I missed recesses, so I stole $20 from my aunt. (She still holds it against me to this day almost 30 years later) to buy a pencil so I wouldn't get in trouble. When I came clean my mom marched down to the school and screamed at the principle and threatened to go to the school board or paper or something. Suddenly, there was no punishment for not purchasing from the book fair nor a punishment if you failed to sell something from the Christmas catalogue from that weird company that made kids do door to door sales each year. Edit: And yes, after getting the pencil I put the change back in my aunt's drawer.
I’m so sorry! My husband is an elementary school media specialist, and he would never pressure any kid to buy. He would also raise Cain if the administration or county tried to do that. Kids need recess, and kids should never be required to buy from the school.
@@MaidMirawyn I'm sure so much has changed since the early 90s when I was a kid, I think people our age have really made big changes in child focused fields
I loved the Scholastic book fairs at school when I was a kid. This was in the late 80s though and there was definitely no penalty for not buying anything. But I also didn't go to a school that got "recess" either. We had a 20 or 25 minute PE class but that was it. And it wouldn't have worked there at the schools I went to, at least 75-80% of students easily qualified for free or reduced lunches. Wasn't a lot of extra money flying around for the book fair.
The Kirby story was mine! I'm so glad you liked it. It was surreal during the whole experience. I have two thoughts on why they wanted a couple. First, and this is very patriarchal, they figured the "man" of the household would be the decision maker on larger ticket items. Second, if they could sell us both, then it would be less likely we would return the item because the spouse was in agreement. In our case, it worked in their favor initially because I would have never bought it in the first place if my husband hadn't been so on board.
I got suckered into a Kirby for a hot minute. I did use the three day recission period in Washington state to make them come and pick it up from my husband while I was at work so that I didn't have to face them again.
@Insatia206 they didn't give us that option. It was "you need to bring it to us". But I got to see the inner workings, and that has been the best help ever in seeing through all those types of sales tricks.
Thanks for sharing your story! My husband got suckered (fortunately, temporarily) by a pair of Kirby reps who visited while I was on a business trip. I came home to our Dirt Devil gone and a contract signed to buy a $2k Kirby, while we were still paying off student loans and a car largely on a single income. Oh, and in an APARTMENT with only 1 carpeted room to boot. In no way were we in need of, or budgeted for, a fancy vacuum cleaner. I cried, we argued, and ultimately husband got the purchase canceled and our Dirt Devil back. We get a number of door-to-door calls selling services these days and while the Kirby experience left us wiser, ngl, we have had some of these salespeople wheedle into our homes (at least it was because we actually were in the market for the services this time). Thanks again for sharing :)
Thanks for that great story!! Yes, totally agree with your points! Probably in the same way that Amway targets couples, they wanted both of you present so they can get both of you on the same page 😖
I am LDS too and served a mission and I completely agree and went through all of the same stuff when I served back in 2014 and ended up going home early because the extremely controlled environment made me mentally ill and caused me to have severe PTSD that after 10 years I am still fighting to get myself under control. The mission even has a designated doctor that you are only able to see for everything that they deem an issue and that man had the nerve to call me fat and make me feel horrible about myself every chance he got that even my companions started making fun of me and making work out even harder and made comments if I ate “too much” that I became anorexic. I now permanent damage to my immune system and body that I cannot get back or reverse. I tell all the new missionaries I talk with to this day about to question the model of the system. I am an active member of the church still but I make sure that everyone hears my story in the church because if this set up is hidden then others will end up like me or worse.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! I generally had a good experience on my mission in Europe, but I’ve heard stories from roommates and friends about bad experiences and mental health crises that I think are so important for people to hear and tell. Some of them I heard before serving my own mission, and I think that helped me. So, I’m glad to hear that you are vocal about your own experience. I hope you are doing well and I wish you the best!
It really a roulette. Same with Pentecostals who go on missions to build wells and clean up from disasters. You could get a good assignment or a bad one. But I do believe if the bad ones, everyone spoke out about them and members came together to fight for change in those areas there would be less bad ones. @@fantasymagic97
Former member, I'm so sorry you went through that💚 I hope you find peace. I found a lot of solace in listening to Mormon Stories Podcast (I loved the church so losing what felt like home was a void) and hearing stories like yours. The members aren't bad (for the most part), the company that is the church is. (For reason I left...caught a "pluto" that was "training his daughter's how to please a husband" youngest was single digit age. When the bishop called to tell me he was off life support and passed I asked what the church would do for his family and other victims, he responded "he didn't really do anything wrong, the children should use that to ponder why Heavenly Father wanted them to do that"... complete blame on the *children* and *God*. Went on to explain his victims not members, there was quite a few, should be pushed for baptism so they can understand God's love is why the perv did that. Absolute disgust. The SP gave similar answer. This was in the PNW just like 4yrs or so ago. Have asked to be excommunicated and told "no need, you have no sin in it". Please stay safe and vigilant. And remember you can still believe in God's amazing love, the morals we were taught from WOW/FHE/YW values ect and not pay a fee to protect those that harm His most pure.)
@@kristanricketts5028 thank you so much. I have been doing therapy for 10 years now that I make sure not to have an LDS therapist so I have a neutral opinion and how to work through all of my stuff. I am on tons of medication that I’ve been told by members and that if I believed more that I wouldn’t need them and let’s just say I lost my crap on them for that. I will admit I stood infront of the my whole home stake presidency and told them that the gospel is true but the people including the leadership are what make the church the problem
Recently LDS mission rules were changed so that missionaries can call home more often; my younger brother got to call my mom every week of his mission from 2020-2022. But honestly, at least LDS missions are only supposed to be 18-24 months and then you go back to living regular life. In contrast, MLMs try to basically keep you until you either drop out without any money left or rise through the ranks. Business practices and religious practices should not mix and I hate hate HATE that Utah and the LDS church, both things I love and that are important to me, are also MLM breeding grounds. Somehow I have only been given an MLM business pitch a couple times in my life despite growing up LDS, but it makes me so sad that many other LDS people are not so fortunate and have even fallen for them. Really, I grew up in the LDS church, I was taught in my family of all LDS members to ask questions and seek answers instead of just blindly following, and I am just baffled that it seems other members don't do that enough. Signed a member of the LDS church that is also anti-MLM
the mission itself might only be 18-24 months but they are super traumatizing and so highly controlled. that was the point of the story. it doesn’t matter how long you’re there bc it’s damaging from day 1
@@clairedeluneonthemoon I know people that found them traumatizing but I also know people (including all four of my brothers) that found them worth the time they put into the mission. Some people also do get sent on missions that really shouldn't have been sent despite the vetting process, and some even get sent home early. It isn't as clear cut as the person writing that email made it out to be.
Thank you amber dawn for this comment. I could have written it myself. Ninja attack, I am so sorry this was so traumatizing for you. I didn’t serve a mission but I’ve met many people who also had traumatic experiences on their missions, and also many people who had incredibly positive experiences. I wish you peace and healing.
I had someone in a previous ward text me out of the blue to tell me the spirit had prompted her to share doterra with me. I'm not anti-mlm, but that text blew my mind. Even better, she's a distant cousin and felt the need to bring that up as well, despite the fact that we hardly interacted at church. 😂
re kurby (kirby?) reps: if they enter your home WITHOUT permission, it is trespass. if they enter with permission but you later revoke that permission by asking/telling them to leave, it IS trespass. trespass is a CRIME. call the police.
Absolutely. I never understood how ppl allow these sales ppl stay in their home for hours basically holding them hostage. This happened when my sis was shopping for windows. They were there for over SIX HOURS!!!! They wouldn’t leave! I asked her WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW THIS???? If I was subjected to this, I would absolutely threaten calling the police if they didn’t leave when I needed them to. I truly don’t get why it’s so hard to be stern and firm with ppl especially pushy sales ppl who have no respect for your time.
"defiant trespass". ive had to call police to my store after asking someone to leave and they wouldnt. thats all you need to say. youre completely correct!
It's surprising to me that they still use this tactic considering that there are states which allow you to legally take lethal action if someone unwanted is on your property. You can legally be shot for just knocking on the wrong door these days.
@@AliPi7I don’t understand it either. I think people are more scared of coming off rude to a complete stranger who has crossed boundaries than being uncomfortable. Personally, I let go of the fear of seeming rude years ago especially in my OWN home!
Manif someone tried to force themselves into my home and then refuse to leave the cops would be called and they can deal with them. They to sell the police your vacuum lol 😅😅
I’m so glad you read this letter about the LDS mission. I recently found out that my coworker’s missionary son was eating one meal a day because they didn’t have enough money for food. The members in the (very affluent ) area were supposed to feed the missionaries dinner every night, but it wasn’t happening. He was experiencing symptoms of malnutrition 😱. We sent him gift cards to use for groceries because his family can’t afford to help much (they are already paying about $550/month for his mission). Crazy!
It's incredibly sad how a church that has over 200 billion dollars, asks their young people to pay $500 a month to be their sales people and also lets them go hungry. I grew up LDS and was a member my whole life until 2022. 49 years. My husband and fed the missionaries as often as we could and when we became more financially stable, we often bought them groceries. I am so sorry your friend's son was going through that. When my nephew served his mission in 2017-2019, they were rarely fed by the members. We sent him gift cards for food all the time.
It infuriates me that missionaries go hungry when they're PAYING to be there, and the church has at least $100 billion dollars just stashed away in stock portfolios. But I think the starvation is purposeful--lots of high-demand religions limit food. It affects cognitive function, and makes people easier to control. They're too hungry to think critically about how badly they're being treated.
I've heard so many similar stories about missionaries. Usually, it's because they're in areas that are too food insecure to give food to the missionaries and it's upsetting to hear that it happens in other areas as well. They also don't have time to cook for themselves so it's impossible for them to eat afforably and nutritiously.
Why the church’s not paying them? Genuinely asking, as from outside mission work doesn’t seem optional and something that is in purview of the church why they’re not responsible of the welfare of the missionaries?
I got into anti-mlm bc true crime got to be a bit too much some times but this still covers everyday crime just not (most of the time) in a physically violent way
I got into true crime as a way to feel safe. I remember Ted Bundy pretended to have a broken arm to get women to walk to his car. I know a lot of tips of what not to do, thanks to true crime. I feel like anti-MLM content gives me that sense of security as well. I know how to shut down MLM huns, thanks to videos like this.
For the LDS story it's funny that despite all the many many many similarities between the church and MLMs even the church understands not to saturate a market by assigning missionaries specific territory XD
I’m a Latter Day Saint and It is sadly taboo to be anti mlm because of how prevalent they are. Ive been trying my best to talk to people behind the scenes and generally, the younger generation seems to know they’re a scam.
Is it taboo to be anti-MLM in the church, or is it taboo to be anti-mlm in the church culture of that area? I feel like the taboo-ness comes from the culture of the particular area more so than any actual church teachings/doctrine. I'm an active member in an area where we have a decent number, but I don't feel like we are encouraged to support or join MLMs here. I know a couple that have for one reason or another, but they seem more the exception than the rule where I am. I think we need to focus more on changing the culture. I say good on you for working behind the scenes in your area where MLMs are more prevalent, and I hope that it becomes less taboo the more people realize how much of a scam they are. I do think that evangelical religions are more prone to prime people to join MLMs because the members of such religions are taught to share or "sell others" on their beliefs. Serving missions prime you to become sales people--even door-to-door sales people. You learn to accept rejection and loss and keep going. These skills translate well to an MLM job based on the model so I can see why there is a lot of overlap. These skills can be used for good as well as evil, and it can be hard to see the difference. I also think that there can be evil--or perhaps more commonly misguided--people in the church that help perpetuate behaviors and ideas that shouldn't be perpetuated. Unfortunately, we are all fallible.
@@loris6341 to answer your question, guess it really just depends but generally, I think it is the church culture in the area but also individuals that have legitimized and normalized the business model, even outside of lds filled areas like Utah or Idaho. My family that has been notoriously in mlms is entirely based out of Florida. I wouldn’t say we are encouraged to support or join mlms here, but it’s hard to ignore their influence, especially since they’re legitimized. I go to school at byu Idaho and melaleuca HQ is in our backyard, always at career fairs, and their former employees have a strong presence at our school. That Is just one example but i guess what im trying to say is that while it isn’t supported or encouraged, it’s not given the scrutiny or discouragement that it deserves. I’ll be more than happy to elaborate and I also want to make it clear that I don’t disagree with anything you said.
@@loris6341 Amen! Cultural traditions vs Doctrine is a crucial distinction. Edit: and for some people emotional experiences and spiritual experiences are the same, and I think that helps cultural/family traditions seem like spiritual truth.
I think it’s assumed that LDS missionaries will be invited to lunch and dinner by people in the community, so they shouldn’t need a lot of money for groceries. $150 per month isn’t much for food, hygiene, and household expenses. 😢
I truly pity them, I haven't encountered missionaries at this point but if I do I'm gonna make sure to offer food, a phonecall or email while making it absolutely clear I'm not interested in their church so they don't get their hopes up
Re: the Kirby story. I read a psychology book years ago which said that salespeople (not just Kirby ones) are generally taught to speak to a couple together. Apparently couples are easier to talk into things than if the person was on their own. Maybe because they can’t use the “I need to discuss this with my spouse first” excuse.
One of the first things I learned working high-end retail is that unless the couple is shopping together, you're unlikely to close a high-dollar sale until "I speak to my spouse first."
I'm sorry, the idea of someone seeing a fat person looking out at the water over a bridge railing and assuming that the fat person wants to kill themselves is so freaking funny to me. What an absolutely ridiculous conclusion to come to. You couldn't write satire this good
Russian people are very nice overall but they’re brutal when it comes to talking about other people’s bodies. Like I get honesty is one thing but that’s got nothing to do with bringing up those topics without anyone asking them to.
In Eastern Europe and Asia anything that isn't super skinny is considered fat on average, and it's not even for health concerns as much as it is for vain, shallow reasons. Flashy materialism along with that is also common.
@@AA-iy4gm Oh that's funny. Idk if you are Eastern European, but I'm Polish (here we can argue "is Poland Eastern or Central European?") and the notion that everyone that's not super skinny is suddenly considered fat, regardless of their health complications and wellbeing. Like that sort of thinking happens, but mostly stops once you're out of high school. Afterwards you will stumble onto it in the same situations as in every other country: dating market, comments from elders and such. Like come on, our societies might tend to be culturally conservative (for better or for worse, you decide), but we're not some cultural "other".
@@MothyaveI just love how many eastern European countries debate whether they actually are eastern European while central European countries would never consider them central. It's quite snobby and absolutely ridiculous how we try to establish hirarchies even within the EU. (Source: romenian ancestry, lived in German speaking countries all my life, best friends being slovenian and bosnian, both reporting the same efforts to 'market' their country as central)
@@lv834 Yeah, it is quite weird isn't it? On one side, yes we are in the Eastern part of Europe. On another, being called Eastern European feels like being slapped in the face with a reminder of the Soviet occupation.
Katja, I hope you see this - 1) your English is impeccable; and, you are an exceptionally talented writer! 2) the way you've described your peace in body image, and view of health vs weight, is really wonderful. I can't tell you how much I appreciated hearing what you said, and I have so much respect and admiration for your wisdom on this subject. It cannot be emphasized enough, especially to women: weight is NOT automatically equivalent to health; but, much more importantly, neither weight nor health determine our dignity and the intrinsic worth/value of human life!
I'm an actve member of the LDS church. My husband and I have been pitched Amway and Primerica. We politely declined! The church discourages members from using our church directories for business or political purposes.
Oh my gosh, yes. I’ve not had this happen for awhile, but over 15 years ago people were using church directories to sell insurance, makeup, clothing, homemaking products, etc.
Yeah I think part of it is also LDS probably have a higher ratio of stay at home moms who are already MLM targets. I did know the church has tried to start warning people, but from the outside the crossover is uncanny.
I found that highly ridiculous and reaching. The goals of our church and of MLMs are entirely different. Whereas we (including this missionary) are entirely there for serving your fellow man, MLMs are all about self, status and wealth. Completely opposite. Do both involve building connections with people, yes they do, but the similarities end there.
I’d agree as an active member of the church, yes, MLM’s highly infiltrate because we all want to be kind and trust our fellow church members. Two things I don’t trust with other people as a member of the church: my kids and my money. Too many people have taken advantage of the kindness of others. I’d also note this isn’t synonymous with the LadS Church only, MLM’s have a way of preying on the religious, because we can trust a friend of our church friend. No is a full sentence and I use it any time a MLM pitch is coming my way.
As someone who grew up LDS (I am not anymore) I can tell you that it isn't uncommon for many church members to be part of an MLM. As a child I had been taken along to many MLM parties, including Amway, Tupperware, Avon, Mary Kay and probably more but I don't know for sure. I know my mom had bought stuff from Avon and my friends mom even sold Avon (They weren't LDS though). It is crazy how many people from the church did buy and sell MLM products.
I'm Dutch, and I've barely ever encountered MLMs in my country, and I'm starting to understand why. My culture is often criticized for being extremely direct. But a side effect of that is that people have absolutely no problem saying NO. And being told no is not taken as an insult here. Al these people talking about how to find ways to gently say no or get rid of guilt tripping sales people or missionaries is both baffling and highly amusing to me. I actually once stumbled upon an LDS video on RUclips about how to approach the Dutch for missionaries, and I found it fascinating. But it also cracked me up. For example, it explained why "How are you doing?" is not a greeting here, but a (somewhat intimate) question that people only use with aquaintaces,friends, and loved ones. So when you use it on the streets, people give you a suspicious look and get the heck away from you. It would kind of be like if a random person asked you a specific question about your health on the street. Like 'why is this stranger being creepily familiar with me?'. So all these sales tactics that were carefully curated by US corporates don't work here. Not that the Dutch are immune to sales and religion of course, but you need seriously different approaches in different countries and cultures.
I doubt it’s about Dutch being direct- it’s more about the Dutch govt not letting capitalism & money take priority over its people. My guess is these business are illegal to operate in Netherlands. The US says pyramid schemes are illegal but allow MLM as they are different. They are legal as MLMs ‘sell’ a product
@@KwazyKupkakes I'm pretty sure I've seen at least Tupperware and Doterra around in the Netherlands. But there may be some restrictions on those companies operations here. I don't know.
It sounds like he was clear with her that he did not want to keep a special needs pregnancy and she had a choice whether or not to keep it. Which should be every womens right, but with that right comes full responsibility for the outcome. Forcing someone to parent a special needs child is a recipe for disaster. It's better for all involved that he left.
@@user-yn4xc8kt3iI agree with you on that if your choices are not compatible in a topic is important as this breaking up is the way to go. But, and I understand we’re getting a one sided and incomplete story here, the OP’s sentiment comes from the ex’s abandonment of the existing children as well, that’s the story implies, or at least that’s what I took from the wording.
@@user-yn4xc8kt3iit takes two to tango: shouldn't he have considered when he decided to father a child that there's a possibility that it won't all be roses? Why should he do the deed and then decide to skip when the consequences aren't exactly what he wants?
Thank you for being respectful toward the LDS church. I'm an active member who loved my mission but I'm also very anti mlm. It totally makes sense why so many members get roped into these schemes and I wish it wasn't so!
Yes, fellow member here, and I'm so grateful for the way she did her best to be respectful to the church and its members! It's hard to hear when others don't have a good experience in the gospel, but I'm glad that at the end of the day, Hannah was polite, even though you can tell she has her own reservations about it for herself 💕
Also an active member here and I grew up with anti MLM parents and am likewise anti MLM. So glad I had the upbringing I did. I loved my mission but i feel like the experience of my internal rights was different than most because my parents taught me to question. It was that exact kind of questioning that had led my own mom to the church when her Catholic teachers couldn’t answer theological questions or contradicted themselves... off point. I love this content and I’m seriously thinking of sharing it around with ladies I know who are stuck in MLM’s or keep becoming customers of certain ones. I do also want to say that yes church members in the western United States seem particularly susceptible to MLM’s but having lived in a few different countries I don’t see the same thing happening to those members outside this area even though the church has the same structure world wide… so I think local culture also has an influence? 🤔
She’s far more polite than I would’ve been. But Mormons and JWs stopped knocking on my queer-ass door even before the pandemic. I have no tolerance for homophobia/transphobia. (If anyone’s interested, I’d highly recommend 8: The Mormon Proposition, which goes into the history of the ‘church’ and their anti-LGBTQ+ stances and policies, or Latter Days, a gay romantic drama about a Mormon missionary who loses everything when he comes out as gay.)
That’s so interesting, because I came into Catholicism because it’s the only thing that made theological sense to me. I definitely disagree with Mormon theology, but I have such a soft spot for missionaries. In one of our old neighborhoods, they came around all the time and they were just the sweetest people. One time my husband saw them at the grocery store loading their cart with beans and he asked them why. When we found out what their grocery stipend was, we were shocked. So I told them to come over every Wednesday and I would feed them. I made it clear I thought their theology was wacky but I wouldn’t let them go hungry and they just laughed and accepted. I honestly enjoyed having them over and having respectful debates with them. I still keep in touch with some of them. Nicest kids I ever met!
Sadly it will stay so unless the LDS moves away from being a high control group. Growing up in such an enviroment primes you to fall for other high control groups sadly
Hearing the LDS story reminded me of a church I attended as a child. It was Baptist, though. The pastor for the Sunday school did his form of "MLM" by offering us candy if we brought our friends in, and each friend was worth one piece of candy, a candy bar if that friend started coming back weekly, he even said that the church bus could pick them up if transportation was an issue. I was probably six at the time, but I can remember wanting that candy, because my family was poor, and of course candy was a rare treat for us, sadly only one of my friends came for one class. It's funny how hearing something can provoke a memory.
Sunday school pastors sure love bribing kids with candy lmao we'd get candy for memorizing bible verses every week... some of them are still engrained in my head because of that lol
I used to be a debt collector at a financing company that mostly financed Kirby vacuums. Being reminded of those ridiculous financing terms gave me chills!! I remember very specifically a three way phone conversation with a woman who's mom got roped into financing a $3k vacuum, and she said "you paid more for this vacuum than you did your car."
These stories are often filled with such infuriating behavior, but before I get too mad, Zeke's little "prrrrrreow?" makes me giggle. Thank you both for your work on these!
As a (mostly) active LDS member, I am 100% on board with the fact that the mission system is both dangerous and broken. It's high pressure and so, so easy to turn into a terrible environment for anyone's mental health. The comparison to mlm honestly just makes me more angry that they still haven't fixed the system.
I love your videos but if i can make one small suggestion: it would help a lot if you named the chapters in your timestamp something more descriptive cause sometimes i want to search for a specific story 🙏 thanks for your work Hannah!
I bet the Kirby rep wanted her husband there so that she wouldn't say, "I would have to talk to my husband first." I am sure that is why they probably told them that.
I find it completely baffling when people say they can't get a person out of their house. Why is everyone so concerned about being rude when these people are the ones being rude. You are not being rude you are setting boundaries. If they do not leave immediately upon being asked CALL.THE.POLICE.
Story 4 really did help me realize why I like your videos so much, I am definitely one of those who listen while I work but the problem is I have an audio processing disorder (APD) which makes listening to things really difficult though I have good hearing. So usually I need subtitles on to know what half of the words being said are. So while I agree every time people said your voice is really soothing I thought there was more to it and it is because you’re easy to listen too. It really does make a huge difference for people like me and I wanna thank you for that even if it’s not intentional lol
As an Ex-Mormon, I’m so glad you shared this story. People need to be informed what that church is actually like and what, at the corporate (top) level, it actually stands for. It can suck for the messenger, but those feathers need to be ruffled. Thank you for including it!
I can't vouch for the actual content of the video because I haven't watched it yet, but if story 3 got you interested in diving deeper into the LDS and MLM connection, Jordan and McKay on youtube recently put out a video discussing it. Could be a good follow-up piece for people seeking more information.
I concur with the true crime/mlm thing, I like both! For me it's the psychology behind it: how does someone end up committing a crime, how does someone get sucked into an mlm...
RE: LDS missionary budget, they are supposed to have dinner with a member of the church every day of the week, which would reduce grocery budget. Just additional info. 😊
that was my story!! we were fed by members but I had severe food restrictions and many of them couldn’t afford to feed me within my guidelines and gluten free/dairy free food is so much more expensive
That depends on the area they're serving in. My brother served his mission in the Dominican Republic around 2015-2017. They were actually not ALLOWED to eat with the members except on holidays like Christmas because the people there could not afford to feed them in most cases. I have no idea what his budget was, but I do know that for most of his mission they actually had hired maids for the missionary apartments who were responsible for cooking for the missionaries. (Near the end of the mission, they no longer had maids.)
Ah yes, I tell people about the BITE model when I talk about missions and the only reason I realized it fell right into model was because your episode about that book selling MLM. After that I got super uncomfortable with all the MLM horror stories because they sounded a lot like my mission. I’ll add that when I served my mission in the early 2010s, 150 a month was enough for me but it was because we were in N. Florida, and we had a lot of support from the local congregations where we always had dinner with members. I believe the limited funds is partly to encourage missionaries to get into member’s homes so that they’re always thinking about missionaries, and to find people for the missionaries to teach. It also felt a little bit like surveillance. Members of the church watch the missionaries very closely, and have high expectations of us. Like one time the bishop of one our wards told us we needed to smile more, and a few days later our mission president told us that he heard from members of our congregation that we didn’t smile enough so we needed to fix that. @_@
Wow. The smiling thing is so icky. I am glad you didn't have to go hungry on your mission. My husband and I always fed the missionaries as often as we could as well as bought groceries for them when we did a Costco run.
I don't listen to true crime channels because I can't find any that don't report on murder cases...and I can't support people making money off of some random person's death that they just found on the Internet....gives me the biggest ick....
The only “true crime” I consume is scams/frauds. For example, the missing crypto queen podcast. Or on RUclips, coffeezilla. Usually in those the victims want and are able to collaborate. The ones about murders don’t interest me and are an ethical minefield.
Utah is the global hub for MLMs. The state has intentional regulation loopholes that makes it easy to operate a company in ways that would be illegal in most other states.
Why on earth would they take my vacuum cleaner with them? Isn’t this STEALING?!?! Never heard of such thing…If someone takes my vacuum cleaner and then I have to drive 60 miles to get it back, I’ll change them fuel and waste of time.
Some kind of sell are "Buy a new one, and we will take your old one with us" Think like fridge, or washing machine, or car. There is probably some kind of clause like that in the sell contract
As someone who served an LDS mission, her experience is not norm... I know that people are gonna immediately jump down my throat for that, but I had nothing but I positive experience when I was a Mormon. I'm not one now because my understanding of God drastically changed, but had to at least mention that not every missionary has that cult-like experience
this was my story!! almost everyone that I have talked to that served around the same time as me 2017-2019 when the rules changed had a VERY similar experience. the people in charge of the mission department at that time were extremely controlling
i’m glad you read the LDS one. i personally have concerns about the church given their connection to not only MLMs, but the consistent violent crimes against women and children. i don’t agree with religions that follow such a strict path and control people’s lives so much. i think free thinking is the most important thing we have as people here on earth, and groups that try to take that away just ring alarm bells in my head. i think the LDS community needs to acknowledge, while people shouldn’t hate on them, they need to recognize the connection between their religious group and cult like structures/ MLMS / violent and sexual crimes. because the connection is very concerning! but thank you for shedding light on the situation and being respectful! love your videos Hannah!!❤
You’re taught to doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith was a powerful line to hear. This one had some rly important stories, as horrific as they were to hear!!
Gosh, my heart dropped when she mentioned the elevator part. 😢 Even I felt hurt and angry, even though it's not even me, but then realized I'm not surprised.
I grew up LDS and my mom was a customer for many, many, many MLMs. She brought me and my sister along to several product ”parties” as kids and I always enjoyed them. I think she trusted them more because she was being sold stuff from her friends and fellow believers. It also means when I started looking into selling, no one batted an eye. Thank god I’m shy because it helped me not last long lol. I wish I had gotten a better education on these issues much earlier in life, though, as it would have saved me so much emotional turmoil, my reputation, and of course, money!
Adding some thoughts as another LDS member, but thank you so much Hannah for being polite! Too often, I hear people who don't agree with my religion that try to break it down and rip it to pieces. While I can tell you don't necessarily agree with the church, you did your best to remain impartial, and that means a lot 💕 I'll also mention that, yes, in the past especially, there had been a lot of push to not question the gospel and just try harder. However the church has had a greater push on what we call "personal revelation," which is all about finding answers for yourself. If there's something about church history you struggle with, dive into it and find out for yourself what you think. That's been a big push in recent years, and I like to see how that has encouraged us as members to think for ourselves and gain our own opinions on all sides of the gospel. Thank you again for your kindness! I was nervous when I saw the thumbnail, but I'm so relieved to see this didn't turn into a bashing session so all could enjoy!
Thank you for this comment. There's a lot of faith-bashing going on in the comments. The story was very anti-faith imo because it left out the whole revelation process.
Ex-mormon here. So the church encourages you to Google search church history and fact-check stuff now? Or is it just like... Pray about it? This was very discouraged against during my time (90's and 00's)
@@jelyfisherthis was my story!! I have severe PTSD and religious OCD because of my mission. I was known to be one of the most faithful missionaries in the mission and worked extremely hard. The revelation I received was that the way my mission president handled thing was extremely damaging and my very active and faithful family are still appalled all these years later by how I was mistreated. Personal revelation also reveals that the church isn’t for everyone and missions are especially difficult for many many people. Maybe if the story made you feel defensive then you should reflect on why.
@@clairedeluneonthemoonI couldn't finish your story because, whatever your faith was on your mission, I heard a lot of contempt and skepticism. I know my faith, and what you wrote hurts my heart, but it's not because I need to doubt what I know. It's because I'm sad you can't share the same experiences. I'm sorry you got hurt, and I hope you find healing. I won't be replying anymore.
My mom's side of the family aren't active, but technically we've all been baptized into, "The Church." I'm, atheist, but when, missionaries come to the door, I say, "we're already mormon, bye bye!"
I think another interesting aspect of the LDS model is an understanding that you can't keep "recruiters" long term because they'll start questioning too much. If MLMs adopt a similar structure, it would be interesting and horrifying.
Lmao I remember some random guy vacuuming my bed when I was a kid. We had soo many door to door salespeople come to our house. Anything from meat to vacuums to encyclopedias. So glad that isn’t a huge thing anymore.
I sold Tupperware 18 years ago. It sort of sold itself, but I didn’t do it more than a couple years. Mostly because I can’t do the aggressive sales approach. The woman who was my director wasn’t “LDS” but she did use her church to start her business. Probably because you start with who you spend the most time with, family, friends, community. 🙂
One of the lessons from these stories is Stick Up For Yourself! These huns are counting on their marks’ politeness even though their own behavior is aggressive, rude, and highly inappropriate. The woman on the bridge is a great model for all of us. Throw it back at them. (The Kirby reps in your house, esp!)
Lol, grew up LDS and thought it was a cult at eight years old. I remember my father inviting missionaries in because they were often hungry, tired, dehydrated, and some were kind of out of it from walking all day. I was actually friends (in the way a 20 year old can be with a 14 year old) with a missionary and used to sneak her my treats from Sunday school because I felt really bad for her. She visited us pretty frequently because my father always welcomed missionaries and probably because my family never saw anyone go hungry (besides me, I guess)
I've been watching you since you were at around 30k subs. I'm so happy that you are basically at 150k!!! I just knew your channel would blow up with all the juicy content being put out at such a consistent pace. 🎉
We had a very similar Kirby experience- they would not do the presentation without us both present- myself and spouse. We decided not to purchase and had to run the guy out and he tried to take our vacuum with him when he left!
Separate note, from the first story- if you aren’t mentally ready to possibly have a disabled child with heavy medical needs, don’t have kids. How dare the ex husband leave her because of the pregnancy! He has the “luxury” of being able to abandon his own family because he had to take up more responsibility for his newborn while she has additional responsibilities without the support of a loving partner. That was so disturbing and so was the hun interaction. When Hannah read the “when the pregnancy fails” part, I gasped so loud my dog ran over to me from the other room. I seriously hope her and her kiddos are doing so much better now and I wish her all the best.
Ugh, that last lady is the worst. Also bullying a child telling her that everyone will make fun of her for not having her own mascara. In the fifth freaking grade!
I am an ex Mormon, that grow up in Utah, and know dozens of people in MLMs. I even worked for cooperate at one. My experience was not this girls, though appreciate her insights. Very few MLM members I know served a mission. Mostly, they were stay at home moms, looking to make a side income and/or hobby and/or friends. Utah has very favorable laws for MLM cooperations, and my belief, is that simply due to proximity, the Utahans are targeted. The missions are not as restrictive these days, elders/sisters can frequently and almost daily communicate with family at home. I do think the church’s structure and obsession with authority is off, but that isn’t the point of this comment, I just wanted to add another perspective as someone who 1) grew up in Utah 2) grew up Mormon 3) worked at and MLM and 4) knows many many in MLMs. I am anti MLM but love many in MLMs.
I literally binged all the mlm horror Stories of you in like two weeks. Fell in love with your channel! Came for the influencer insanity (thank you algorithm), stayed for the mlm content 🤭😍
I'm also training my english as foreign language with your videos. I'm interested in the subject and also appreciate your vibes and clear pronunciation 😊
I was watching a video from a non-MLM creator. He showed a meme where a person meets up with an old friend from 10 years ago, hidden behind the friend's back is a MLM pyramid scheme. People all around the World are waking up to the tactics of the MLM huns.
Working nights Monday is my day off and it always starts with a nice cup of coffee and these stories. Been subbed since your Posh days and it's amazing to see the steady growth. Congrats Hannah, you deserve it!
This is such a random thing to say and I mean this in the nicest way possible because I think you're adorable, but you look so much like a grown up version of Cindy Lou Who! I've been loving your content, keep up the excellent work!!
I’m so sad, I’ve been subscribed since 15k and just saw I’d been unsubscribed in the last couple days!? I’m hoping this didn’t happen for a bunch of us, I’ve been so happy for you and your success lately🥰❤️ so proud of you!💓
Just wanted to come in and say Hi! Love the videos! I also love the new influencer videos and started sharing those videos to my daughter's as extra media literacy- especially since I don't have tik tok and didn't realize how ad driven it has become! Thanks for all you do!
Despite how horrible the stories always are, I love the way that so many are able to tell them with adding interjections like “Mary Kay sales rep“ or “ cue dramatic background music indicating the eventual loss of hours of my life“ for a brief moment of levity. I also really appreciate you being open and transparent about how your personal relationships take precedence over commentary on particular topics, that is not only commendable, but truly a testament to your heart, soul, character, and purpose of what you create. You’re a blessing.
Indeed, just like how pretty much everyone who deconvents from a religion is accused of "never being a TRUE [insert label]" - because they cannot possibly have had legitimate issues with the belief system
Ex-mormon here! Thankfully I never got too deep into the MLMs. I did get pitched a few times, but thankfully while growing up I never dealt with an MLM.
The irony of me watching this after Fundie Fridays just did serveral deep dives on Christian misson organizations, not the LDS, but stilll the connections are absolutely insane 😭
As an ex mormon, I will say that I still adore missionaries. They go through sooooo much. I only went through the MTC but had a mental breakdown from being in there so they sent me home at the end of the 3 weeks (It felt like 7 years in there). At the end of the day, they are just kids who think they are doing the right thing. It is unnecessary trauma and most who get baptized are out of guilt (i know because I was one of those people guilted and the people who was brainwashed to guilt others). To this day, if I see a missionary I give them some water or just say hi and give them a moment to chill between teaching even though I've taken my name out of the church and am fully out. They are just kids and they need some kindness.
I love your stories ❤ I stole 10.00 from my dads pants on the floor when I was 12. Its bothered me ny whole life and he passed when I was 16 so I never got to apoligize. I have apoligized to him on the otherside and I know he forgives me, but I have carried this guilt for years and felt that old deep pain again listening to this story. I hope the lady that encouraged that poor girl to steal has changed and realized the domino effect these small actions can cause.
The first story made me gasp a lot and then made me sick. I am from Utah but I moved to Ca with my mom and sister at 9. My dad and his side are still there, so I grew up visiting my dad every year and more often when as I got older. Obviously the Mormon MLM connection was very interesting and it made so much sense as I think back. None of my family are Mormon but I still have friends there who are. I have heard some stories that really boggle my mind and truthfully concern me about their beliefs. I have never had any pressure from friends.not saying they didn’t try. But I always was told by my mom never fall for these companies that I never understood, but I am very grateful for her preparing me young lol I will always have a reason not to go to any MLM party because I know I would give in because I don’t do good under pressure lol if I don’t know the person I would have no problem saying no. Actually kinda wish I will get a hey hun message to be entertained 😊
Have you ever thought of hiring an assistant to edit your videos to make a "Master list of Kirby stories?" They are some of my favorites, but I know you have so many videos, and a young child, that quest line would be long.
I cant remember how many subs you had when i first subscribed but i think it was under 50k. Im thrilled to see your subs blow up to 150k! Congratulations! Horror stories is my favorite series on here.
Congratulations on your silver play button. Also, congratulations on smashing that by 50% near weeks later. So proud of you been here since before 50k.
The "We need you husband at home too" is, to help overcome the "Well I need to check with my spouse first" if both decision makers are there, less of a chance they will push you out the door. In car sales many dealerships ask "will you be buying the car or you and your spouse?" so they can get the high pressure push ready. If a person leave the lot, less then 10% ever return, so they want someone signed before leaving and the old "Well I need to check with my Husband/Wife" can be squashed right away.
I loved this video. So much going on with LDS and a Hun asking a child to steal to help her business. To what length individual will go to enhance their belief systems - whatever it takes to recruit or make money is okay, even when it violates norms, laws, and moral traditions.
The Kirby rep requiring the husband to be home is probably a sales tactic. "I have to check with my spouse" is a common soft no. If you have both decision makers are present, you can't use the absent spouse as an excuse to put the sales rep off.
My coworkers wife tried that while he was at work. The rep made her call him at work. 🤦♀️
It's sadly a lot more than that. In my area, at least, It has to do with who they target, and having them be able to qualify for the credit used to buy the vacuum. It was a way for them to be able to deny claims they pressured someone into signing loan papers if it went to court/collections. They also used it as a way to avoid canceling contracts. If 2 people signed the contract to get the vacuum, 2 people have to sign to cancel.
Coming here to say this! I just attended a timeshare pitch where they required if you had a spouse/live-in partner, you had to bring them & while they didn't say so, it was obviously bc they knew "I can't spend $20k without my partner's approval" would be a common response without it
A few years ago I had someone ask me the same question. It was a genuine question from this company because it was a significant $ amount expense and the person said that the company had been caught out where one person had agreed to the work but their partner said no. As a single person it never occurred to me that this could happen.
I had a window salesman at my door two weeks ago who was being really pushy while I stood there with headphones in my ears and raw chicken on one hand because he interrupted dinner. The guy seriously asked to talk to my husband. I told him I don't have one (I do, but wtf) and he said, "Good that makes it easier!" Said the quiet part out loud.
Aside from everything else in the story, the fact that this gal's husband left her in this situation is heartbreaking and infuriating.
My son's father abandoned us after finding out that he would be born with hydrocephalus and possible spinal bifida. He was the one who wanted kids and even got me pregnant without my consent. I didn't know about the medical issues until much later in the pregnancy unfortunately. It's sad but men do this all the time. They don't want to have to help out more
@@Aashka_The_Mystic I'm so sorry you went through that.
Yes, that is so incredibly terrible. 💔
@@Aashka_The_MysticI’m so sorry. 💔
@@Aashka_The_Mystic I'm sorry you had to suffer from a selfish man. I hope your life situation has gotten better.
Anytime I hear stories about mormons I think of the one time two members showed up to my home and I answered the door in a BLUE DINOSAUR onsie. They immediately laughed so hard, I mentioned I'm a nightshift worker and they said sorry for waking me and left.
Nice. I answered the door wearing a rainbow color shirt and they fled, no one's been back since. Shirt had absolutely nothing to do with queer people (though I am queer), but migraine, it was just colorful because color is fun.
@@waffles3629gonna use this if they come knocking! 😆
Jordn and McKay (mostly post-LDS channel) just did a story about LDS/MLM pipeline. They played a couple of your clips and gave you a lovely shout out. Something not mentioned in the story is that Utah is a very friendly state to MLM companies and there are quite a few headquartered there. Also, Utah's long time Senator Orrin Hatch was instrumental in the 1970s to keep vitamins/herbal remedies out of FDA regulation which I think helped the oil based MLMs gain popularity.
Was about to comment this! Highly recommend their video to anyone wanting to know more. One of my favorite quotes from that video was "mormon missionaries are used to selling something that nobody wants." 😂
Jason Chaffetz - five term rep of Utah's 3rd - used to work in PR at Nu Skin; subsequently, they were his campaign's largest donor
Don't forget about doTerra Field in Utah! 🥴
I bopped off to watch the Jordon and McKay video you referenced. It was excellent, a real deep dive into why LDS members are so into MLMs. Thanks for the reference. And the ending was the best part-their cat got right into the camera shot!
I was thinking of this exact video when she prefaced that story. That was a rly well done story & other anti mlm creators have discussed this but J&M def had the ability to do an inside look from having been in the church. They rly prey on that denomination & it’s so sad. If you’re already in one cult you’re at such a higher rate to be sucked into another.
The first story makes me so angry. That Mary Kay lady is not just clueless, but evil. I would have just got up and left as soon as she said "When you lose the baby." OMG! 😮
I'm not a violent person, but that phrase might move me to violence.
One of those no words moments ! Just unreal !
I sat with my jaw on my chest for a good ten seconds! Worst hun ever
And saw the neonatal intensive care as a recruitment zone. Holy smokes
That Mary Kay rep is utterly DISGUSTING!!! How inhumane!
Sounds like Kirby reps are kind of like inviting a vampire in....
😂
So if we chuck a few cloves of garlic their way, they'll flee into the shadows from whence they came? I mean, nothing else gets them to leave, so it's worth a try.
😂😂😂
@@Rabbitmancer I suppose "I don't need a vacuum cleaner, my housekeeper brings her own." should work.
😂 I say this same thing about all door to door sales people! "Don't invite them in, they can't get you if you don't invite them in!" 🤣
Kirby salespeople= vampire: do not allow them to cross your threshold. 😂😂😂
Maybe getting garlic out will make them leave 😅
Yup I've thought about that before. If you invite them in, it's all over
we not here sell is scam lie language
I almost want to say to them “Get thee hence Satan!”
And they both suck 😂
My elementary school did book fairs. They used to take away one of your recesses a day if you didn't purchase at least one thing. I guess maybe they were getting kickbacks. I didn't want to repeat the year before when I missed recesses, so I stole $20 from my aunt. (She still holds it against me to this day almost 30 years later) to buy a pencil so I wouldn't get in trouble. When I came clean my mom marched down to the school and screamed at the principle and threatened to go to the school board or paper or something. Suddenly, there was no punishment for not purchasing from the book fair nor a punishment if you failed to sell something from the Christmas catalogue from that weird company that made kids do door to door sales each year.
Edit: And yes, after getting the pencil I put the change back in my aunt's drawer.
I’m so sorry! My husband is an elementary school media specialist, and he would never pressure any kid to buy.
He would also raise Cain if the administration or county tried to do that.
Kids need recess, and kids should never be required to buy from the school.
@@MaidMirawyn I'm sure so much has changed since the early 90s when I was a kid, I think people our age have really made big changes in child focused fields
I loved the Scholastic book fairs at school when I was a kid. This was in the late 80s though and there was definitely no penalty for not buying anything. But I also didn't go to a school that got "recess" either. We had a 20 or 25 minute PE class but that was it. And it wouldn't have worked there at the schools I went to, at least 75-80% of students easily qualified for free or reduced lunches. Wasn't a lot of extra money flying around for the book fair.
The Kirby story was mine! I'm so glad you liked it. It was surreal during the whole experience. I have two thoughts on why they wanted a couple. First, and this is very patriarchal, they figured the "man" of the household would be the decision maker on larger ticket items. Second, if they could sell us both, then it would be less likely we would return the item because the spouse was in agreement. In our case, it worked in their favor initially because I would have never bought it in the first place if my husband hadn't been so on board.
Thanks for sharing your story with us 🤗
I got suckered into a Kirby for a hot minute. I did use the three day recission period in Washington state to make them come and pick it up from my husband while I was at work so that I didn't have to face them again.
@Insatia206 they didn't give us that option. It was "you need to bring it to us". But I got to see the inner workings, and that has been the best help ever in seeing through all those types of sales tricks.
Thanks for sharing your story! My husband got suckered (fortunately, temporarily) by a pair of Kirby reps who visited while I was on a business trip. I came home to our Dirt Devil gone and a contract signed to buy a $2k Kirby, while we were still paying off student loans and a car largely on a single income. Oh, and in an APARTMENT with only 1 carpeted room to boot. In no way were we in need of, or budgeted for, a fancy vacuum cleaner. I cried, we argued, and ultimately husband got the purchase canceled and our Dirt Devil back.
We get a number of door-to-door calls selling services these days and while the Kirby experience left us wiser, ngl, we have had some of these salespeople wheedle into our homes (at least it was because we actually were in the market for the services this time).
Thanks again for sharing :)
Thanks for that great story!! Yes, totally agree with your points! Probably in the same way that Amway targets couples, they wanted both of you present so they can get both of you on the same page 😖
I am LDS too and served a mission and I completely agree and went through all of the same stuff when I served back in 2014 and ended up going home early because the extremely controlled environment made me mentally ill and caused me to have severe PTSD that after 10 years I am still fighting to get myself under control. The mission even has a designated doctor that you are only able to see for everything that they deem an issue and that man had the nerve to call me fat and make me feel horrible about myself every chance he got that even my companions started making fun of me and making work out even harder and made comments if I ate “too much” that I became anorexic. I now permanent damage to my immune system and body that I cannot get back or reverse. I tell all the new missionaries I talk with to this day about to question the model of the system. I am an active member of the church still but I make sure that everyone hears my story in the church because if this set up is hidden then others will end up like me or worse.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! I generally had a good experience on my mission in Europe, but I’ve heard stories from roommates and friends about bad experiences and mental health crises that I think are so important for people to hear and tell. Some of them I heard before serving my own mission, and I think that helped me. So, I’m glad to hear that you are vocal about your own experience. I hope you are doing well and I wish you the best!
It really a roulette. Same with Pentecostals who go on missions to build wells and clean up from disasters. You could get a good assignment or a bad one. But I do believe if the bad ones, everyone spoke out about them and members came together to fight for change in those areas there would be less bad ones. @@fantasymagic97
Love this!! As an active member myself I think it's so so so important for ppl to hear your story
Former member, I'm so sorry you went through that💚 I hope you find peace. I found a lot of solace in listening to Mormon Stories Podcast (I loved the church so losing what felt like home was a void) and hearing stories like yours. The members aren't bad (for the most part), the company that is the church is.
(For reason I left...caught a "pluto" that was "training his daughter's how to please a husband" youngest was single digit age. When the bishop called to tell me he was off life support and passed I asked what the church would do for his family and other victims, he responded "he didn't really do anything wrong, the children should use that to ponder why Heavenly Father wanted them to do that"... complete blame on the *children* and *God*. Went on to explain his victims not members, there was quite a few, should be pushed for baptism so they can understand God's love is why the perv did that. Absolute disgust. The SP gave similar answer. This was in the PNW just like 4yrs or so ago. Have asked to be excommunicated and told "no need, you have no sin in it". Please stay safe and vigilant. And remember you can still believe in God's amazing love, the morals we were taught from WOW/FHE/YW values ect and not pay a fee to protect those that harm His most pure.)
@@kristanricketts5028 thank you so much. I have been doing therapy for 10 years now that I make sure not to have an LDS therapist so I have a neutral opinion and how to work through all of my stuff. I am on tons of medication that I’ve been told by members and that if I believed more that I wouldn’t need them and let’s just say I lost my crap on them for that. I will admit I stood infront of the my whole home stake presidency and told them that the gospel is true but the people including the leadership are what make the church the problem
Recently LDS mission rules were changed so that missionaries can call home more often; my younger brother got to call my mom every week of his mission from 2020-2022.
But honestly, at least LDS missions are only supposed to be 18-24 months and then you go back to living regular life. In contrast, MLMs try to basically keep you until you either drop out without any money left or rise through the ranks. Business practices and religious practices should not mix and I hate hate HATE that Utah and the LDS church, both things I love and that are important to me, are also MLM breeding grounds. Somehow I have only been given an MLM business pitch a couple times in my life despite growing up LDS, but it makes me so sad that many other LDS people are not so fortunate and have even fallen for them.
Really, I grew up in the LDS church, I was taught in my family of all LDS members to ask questions and seek answers instead of just blindly following, and I am just baffled that it seems other members don't do that enough.
Signed a member of the LDS church that is also anti-MLM
the mission itself might only be 18-24 months but they are super traumatizing and so highly controlled. that was the point of the story. it doesn’t matter how long you’re there bc it’s damaging from day 1
@@clairedeluneonthemoon I know people that found them traumatizing but I also know people (including all four of my brothers) that found them worth the time they put into the mission. Some people also do get sent on missions that really shouldn't have been sent despite the vetting process, and some even get sent home early. It isn't as clear cut as the person writing that email made it out to be.
Thank you amber dawn for this comment. I could have written it myself. Ninja attack, I am so sorry this was so traumatizing for you. I didn’t serve a mission but I’ve met many people who also had traumatic experiences on their missions, and also many people who had incredibly positive experiences. I wish you peace and healing.
I had someone in a previous ward text me out of the blue to tell me the spirit had prompted her to share doterra with me. I'm not anti-mlm, but that text blew my mind. Even better, she's a distant cousin and felt the need to bring that up as well, despite the fact that we hardly interacted at church. 😂
Curious if you’ve read the CES letter?
An adult in an mlm convincing a 10 year old to steal is absolutely insane. I cannot.
Seriously! And while instilling some fabricated insecurities as well! “The other kids are going to make fun of you.” Gross, hun lady. Super gross.
They have no moral values
re kurby (kirby?) reps: if they enter your home WITHOUT permission, it is trespass. if they enter with permission but you later revoke that permission by asking/telling them to leave, it IS trespass. trespass is a CRIME. call the police.
Absolutely.
I never understood how ppl allow these sales ppl stay in their home for hours basically holding them hostage.
This happened when my sis was shopping for windows.
They were there for over SIX HOURS!!!! They wouldn’t leave!
I asked her WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW THIS????
If I was subjected to this, I would absolutely threaten calling the police if they didn’t leave when I needed them to.
I truly don’t get why it’s so hard to be stern and firm with ppl especially pushy sales ppl who have no respect for your time.
"defiant trespass". ive had to call police to my store after asking someone to leave and they wouldnt. thats all you need to say. youre completely correct!
It's surprising to me that they still use this tactic considering that there are states which allow you to legally take lethal action if someone unwanted is on your property. You can legally be shot for just knocking on the wrong door these days.
@@AliPi7I don’t understand it either. I think people are more scared of coming off rude to a complete stranger who has crossed boundaries than being uncomfortable. Personally, I let go of the fear of seeming rude years ago especially in my OWN home!
Manif someone tried to force themselves into my home and then refuse to leave the cops would be called and they can deal with them. They to sell the police your vacuum lol 😅😅
I’m so glad you read this letter about the LDS mission. I recently found out that my coworker’s missionary son was eating one meal a day because they didn’t have enough money for food. The members in the (very affluent ) area were supposed to feed the missionaries dinner every night, but it wasn’t happening. He was experiencing symptoms of malnutrition 😱. We sent him gift cards to use for groceries because his family can’t afford to help much (they are already paying about $550/month for his mission). Crazy!
It's incredibly sad how a church that has over 200 billion dollars, asks their young people to pay $500 a month to be their sales people and also lets them go hungry.
I grew up LDS and was a member my whole life until 2022. 49 years. My husband and fed the missionaries as often as we could and when we became more financially stable, we often bought them groceries.
I am so sorry your friend's son was going through that. When my nephew served his mission in 2017-2019, they were rarely fed by the members. We sent him gift cards for food all the time.
It infuriates me that missionaries go hungry when they're PAYING to be there, and the church has at least $100 billion dollars just stashed away in stock portfolios. But I think the starvation is purposeful--lots of high-demand religions limit food. It affects cognitive function, and makes people easier to control. They're too hungry to think critically about how badly they're being treated.
@@angelofdusk13 That is an excellent point.
I've heard so many similar stories about missionaries. Usually, it's because they're in areas that are too food insecure to give food to the missionaries and it's upsetting to hear that it happens in other areas as well. They also don't have time to cook for themselves so it's impossible for them to eat afforably and nutritiously.
Why the church’s not paying them? Genuinely asking, as from outside mission work doesn’t seem optional and something that is in purview of the church why they’re not responsible of the welfare of the missionaries?
I got into anti-mlm bc true crime got to be a bit too much some times but this still covers everyday crime just not (most of the time) in a physically violent way
I got into true crime as a way to feel safe. I remember Ted Bundy pretended to have a broken arm to get women to walk to his car. I know a lot of tips of what not to do, thanks to true crime. I feel like anti-MLM content gives me that sense of security as well. I know how to shut down MLM huns, thanks to videos like this.
You might enjoy the podcast Criminal. It's about true crime, but typically not violent true crime.
For the LDS story it's funny that despite all the many many many similarities between the church and MLMs even the church understands not to saturate a market by assigning missionaries specific territory XD
I’m a Latter Day Saint and It is sadly taboo to be anti mlm because of how prevalent they are. Ive been trying my best to talk to people behind the scenes and generally, the younger generation seems to know they’re a scam.
Is it taboo to be anti-MLM in the church, or is it taboo to be anti-mlm in the church culture of that area? I feel like the taboo-ness comes from the culture of the particular area more so than any actual church teachings/doctrine. I'm an active member in an area where we have a decent number, but I don't feel like we are encouraged to support or join MLMs here. I know a couple that have for one reason or another, but they seem more the exception than the rule where I am. I think we need to focus more on changing the culture. I say good on you for working behind the scenes in your area where MLMs are more prevalent, and I hope that it becomes less taboo the more people realize how much of a scam they are.
I do think that evangelical religions are more prone to prime people to join MLMs because the members of such religions are taught to share or "sell others" on their beliefs. Serving missions prime you to become sales people--even door-to-door sales people. You learn to accept rejection and loss and keep going. These skills translate well to an MLM job based on the model so I can see why there is a lot of overlap. These skills can be used for good as well as evil, and it can be hard to see the difference. I also think that there can be evil--or perhaps more commonly misguided--people in the church that help perpetuate behaviors and ideas that shouldn't be perpetuated. Unfortunately, we are all fallible.
@@loris6341 to answer your question, guess it really just depends but generally, I think it is the church culture in the area but also individuals that have legitimized and normalized the business model, even outside of lds filled areas like Utah or Idaho. My family that has been notoriously in mlms is entirely based out of Florida.
I wouldn’t say we are encouraged to support or join mlms here, but it’s hard to ignore their influence, especially since they’re legitimized. I go to school at byu Idaho and melaleuca HQ is in our backyard, always at career fairs, and their former employees have a strong presence at our school. That Is just one example but i guess what im trying to say is that while it isn’t supported or encouraged, it’s not given the scrutiny or discouragement that it deserves. I’ll be more than happy to elaborate and I also want to make it clear that I don’t disagree with anything you said.
@@loris6341 Amen! Cultural traditions vs Doctrine is a crucial distinction.
Edit: and for some people emotional experiences and spiritual experiences are the same, and I think that helps cultural/family traditions seem like spiritual truth.
You aren’t alone. I find that the highly educated, older LDS members think they’re gross too. It’s the youth that are targets.
@@E-magineMySurprise 100000000% I love the difference you drew between emotions and spirit, that is so important
I think it’s assumed that LDS missionaries will be invited to lunch and dinner by people in the community, so they shouldn’t need a lot of money for groceries. $150 per month isn’t much for food, hygiene, and household expenses. 😢
I truly pity them, I haven't encountered missionaries at this point but if I do I'm gonna make sure to offer food, a phonecall or email while making it absolutely clear I'm not interested in their church so they don't get their hopes up
Re: the Kirby story. I read a psychology book years ago which said that salespeople (not just Kirby ones) are generally taught to speak to a couple together. Apparently couples are easier to talk into things than if the person was on their own. Maybe because they can’t use the “I need to discuss this with my spouse first” excuse.
One of the first things I learned working high-end retail is that unless the couple is shopping together, you're unlikely to close a high-dollar sale until "I speak to my spouse first."
I'm sorry, the idea of someone seeing a fat person looking out at the water over a bridge railing and assuming that the fat person wants to kill themselves is so freaking funny to me. What an absolutely ridiculous conclusion to come to. You couldn't write satire this good
Russian people are very nice overall but they’re brutal when it comes to talking about other people’s bodies. Like I get honesty is one thing but that’s got nothing to do with bringing up those topics without anyone asking them to.
In Eastern Europe and Asia anything that isn't super skinny is considered fat on average, and it's not even for health concerns as much as it is for vain, shallow reasons. Flashy materialism along with that is also common.
@@AA-iy4gm Oh that's funny. Idk if you are Eastern European, but I'm Polish (here we can argue "is Poland Eastern or Central European?") and the notion that everyone that's not super skinny is suddenly considered fat, regardless of their health complications and wellbeing. Like that sort of thinking happens, but mostly stops once you're out of high school. Afterwards you will stumble onto it in the same situations as in every other country: dating market, comments from elders and such. Like come on, our societies might tend to be culturally conservative (for better or for worse, you decide), but we're not some cultural "other".
@@MothyaveI just love how many eastern European countries debate whether they actually are eastern European while central European countries would never consider them central. It's quite snobby and absolutely ridiculous how we try to establish hirarchies even within the EU.
(Source: romenian ancestry, lived in German speaking countries all my life, best friends being slovenian and bosnian, both reporting the same efforts to 'market' their country as central)
@@lv834 Yeah, it is quite weird isn't it? On one side, yes we are in the Eastern part of Europe. On another, being called Eastern European feels like being slapped in the face with a reminder of the Soviet occupation.
Katja, I hope you see this - 1) your English is impeccable; and, you are an exceptionally talented writer!
2) the way you've described your peace in body image, and view of health vs weight, is really wonderful. I can't tell you how much I appreciated hearing what you said, and I have so much respect and admiration for your wisdom on this subject.
It cannot be emphasized enough, especially to women: weight is NOT automatically equivalent to health;
but, much more importantly, neither weight nor health determine our dignity and the intrinsic worth/value of human life!
I'm an actve member of the LDS church. My husband and I have been pitched Amway and Primerica. We politely declined! The church discourages members from using our church directories for business or political purposes.
Oh my gosh, yes. I’ve not had this happen for awhile, but over 15 years ago people were using church directories to sell insurance, makeup, clothing, homemaking products, etc.
Yeah I think part of it is also LDS probably have a higher ratio of stay at home moms who are already MLM targets. I did know the church has tried to start warning people, but from the outside the crossover is uncanny.
I found that highly ridiculous and reaching. The goals of our church and of MLMs are entirely different. Whereas we (including this missionary) are entirely there for serving your fellow man, MLMs are all about self, status and wealth. Completely opposite. Do both involve building connections with people, yes they do, but the similarities end there.
@lonijenks1734 the tactics are similar though.
I’d agree as an active member of the church, yes, MLM’s highly infiltrate because we all want to be kind and trust our fellow church members. Two things I don’t trust with other people as a member of the church: my kids and my money. Too many people have taken advantage of the kindness of others. I’d also note this isn’t synonymous with the LadS Church only, MLM’s have a way of preying on the religious, because we can trust a friend of our church friend.
No is a full sentence and I use it any time a MLM pitch is coming my way.
As someone who grew up LDS (I am not anymore) I can tell you that it isn't uncommon for many church members to be part of an MLM. As a child I had been taken along to many MLM parties, including Amway, Tupperware, Avon, Mary Kay and probably more but I don't know for sure. I know my mom had bought stuff from Avon and my friends mom even sold Avon (They weren't LDS though). It is crazy how many people from the church did buy and sell MLM products.
It is even more difficult now to have a single income household AND pay 10% of your income to the church.
I'm Dutch, and I've barely ever encountered MLMs in my country, and I'm starting to understand why. My culture is often criticized for being extremely direct. But a side effect of that is that people have absolutely no problem saying NO. And being told no is not taken as an insult here. Al these people talking about how to find ways to gently say no or get rid of guilt tripping sales people or missionaries is both baffling and highly amusing to me. I actually once stumbled upon an LDS video on RUclips about how to approach the Dutch for missionaries, and I found it fascinating. But it also cracked me up. For example, it explained why "How are you doing?" is not a greeting here, but a (somewhat intimate) question that people only use with aquaintaces,friends, and loved ones. So when you use it on the streets, people give you a suspicious look and get the heck away from you. It would kind of be like if a random person asked you a specific question about your health on the street. Like 'why is this stranger being creepily familiar with me?'. So all these sales tactics that were carefully curated by US corporates don't work here. Not that the Dutch are immune to sales and religion of course, but you need seriously different approaches in different countries and cultures.
I doubt it’s about Dutch being direct- it’s more about the Dutch govt not letting capitalism & money take priority over its people.
My guess is these business are illegal to operate in Netherlands.
The US says pyramid schemes are illegal but allow MLM as they are different. They are legal as MLMs ‘sell’ a product
@@KwazyKupkakes I'm pretty sure I've seen at least Tupperware and Doterra around in the Netherlands. But there may be some restrictions on those companies operations here. I don't know.
From the bottom of my heart, I wish the first girl's ex a miserable life where none of his dreams come true 😊
Well said
Yesss that. Exactly that
It sounds like he was clear with her that he did not want to keep a special needs pregnancy and she had a choice whether or not to keep it. Which should be every womens right, but with that right comes full responsibility for the outcome. Forcing someone to parent a special needs child is a recipe for disaster. It's better for all involved that he left.
@@user-yn4xc8kt3iI agree with you on that if your choices are not compatible in a topic is important as this breaking up is the way to go. But, and I understand we’re getting a one sided and incomplete story here, the OP’s sentiment comes from the ex’s abandonment of the existing children as well, that’s the story implies, or at least that’s what I took from the wording.
@@user-yn4xc8kt3iit takes two to tango: shouldn't he have considered when he decided to father a child that there's a possibility that it won't all be roses? Why should he do the deed and then decide to skip when the consequences aren't exactly what he wants?
I misread the thumbnail as "lsd" and was so intrigued... Lds's connection to mlm is pretty straightforward issue, but i love your videos nonetheless 👍
Don’t give them drugs too 😂😂😂
I read LSD too 🤦🏻♀️😂
Thank you for being respectful toward the LDS church. I'm an active member who loved my mission but I'm also very anti mlm. It totally makes sense why so many members get roped into these schemes and I wish it wasn't so!
Yes, fellow member here, and I'm so grateful for the way she did her best to be respectful to the church and its members! It's hard to hear when others don't have a good experience in the gospel, but I'm glad that at the end of the day, Hannah was polite, even though you can tell she has her own reservations about it for herself 💕
Also an active member here and I grew up with anti MLM parents and am likewise anti MLM. So glad I had the upbringing I did. I loved my mission but i feel like the experience of my internal rights was different than most because my parents taught me to question. It was that exact kind of questioning that had led my own mom to the church when her Catholic teachers couldn’t answer theological questions or contradicted themselves... off point. I love this content and I’m seriously thinking of sharing it around with ladies I know who are stuck in MLM’s or keep becoming customers of certain ones. I do also want to say that yes church members in the western United States seem particularly susceptible to MLM’s but having lived in a few different countries I don’t see the same thing happening to those members outside this area even though the church has the same structure world wide… so I think local culture also has an influence? 🤔
She’s far more polite than I would’ve been.
But Mormons and JWs stopped knocking on my queer-ass door even before the pandemic. I have no tolerance for homophobia/transphobia.
(If anyone’s interested, I’d highly recommend 8: The Mormon Proposition, which goes into the history of the ‘church’ and their anti-LGBTQ+ stances and policies, or Latter Days, a gay romantic drama about a Mormon missionary who loses everything when he comes out as gay.)
That’s so interesting, because I came into Catholicism because it’s the only thing that made theological sense to me. I definitely disagree with Mormon theology, but I have such a soft spot for missionaries. In one of our old neighborhoods, they came around all the time and they were just the sweetest people. One time my husband saw them at the grocery store loading their cart with beans and he asked them why. When we found out what their grocery stipend was, we were shocked. So I told them to come over every Wednesday and I would feed them. I made it clear I thought their theology was wacky but I wouldn’t let them go hungry and they just laughed and accepted. I honestly enjoyed having them over and having respectful debates with them. I still keep in touch with some of them. Nicest kids I ever met!
Sadly it will stay so unless the LDS moves away from being a high control group. Growing up in such an enviroment primes you to fall for other high control groups sadly
Hearing the LDS story reminded me of a church I attended as a child. It was Baptist, though. The pastor for the Sunday school did his form of "MLM" by offering us candy if we brought our friends in, and each friend was worth one piece of candy, a candy bar if that friend started coming back weekly, he even said that the church bus could pick them up if transportation was an issue. I was probably six at the time, but I can remember wanting that candy, because my family was poor, and of course candy was a rare treat for us, sadly only one of my friends came for one class. It's funny how hearing something can provoke a memory.
Sunday school pastors sure love bribing kids with candy lmao we'd get candy for memorizing bible verses every week... some of them are still engrained in my head because of that lol
I used to be a debt collector at a financing company that mostly financed Kirby vacuums. Being reminded of those ridiculous financing terms gave me chills!! I remember very specifically a three way phone conversation with a woman who's mom got roped into financing a $3k vacuum, and she said "you paid more for this vacuum than you did your car."
I can't even imagine how hard that job was for you and everyone else with empathy. ❤
These stories are often filled with such infuriating behavior, but before I get too mad, Zeke's little "prrrrrreow?" makes me giggle. Thank you both for your work on these!
As a (mostly) active LDS member, I am 100% on board with the fact that the mission system is both dangerous and broken. It's high pressure and so, so easy to turn into a terrible environment for anyone's mental health. The comparison to mlm honestly just makes me more angry that they still haven't fixed the system.
Much respect to Katja; that was BADASS!
I love your videos but if i can make one small suggestion: it would help a lot if you named the chapters in your timestamp something more descriptive cause sometimes i want to search for a specific story 🙏 thanks for your work Hannah!
Good idea! I hope she does this :) even if they're labeled with the MLM name that would be helpful.
I bet the Kirby rep wanted her husband there so that she wouldn't say, "I would have to talk to my husband first." I am sure that is why they probably told them that.
I find it completely baffling when people say they can't get a person out of their house. Why is everyone so concerned about being rude when these people are the ones being rude. You are not being rude you are setting boundaries. If they do not leave immediately upon being asked CALL.THE.POLICE.
Story 4 really did help me realize why I like your videos so much, I am definitely one of those who listen while I work but the problem is I have an audio processing disorder (APD) which makes listening to things really difficult though I have good hearing. So usually I need subtitles on to know what half of the words being said are. So while I agree every time people said your voice is really soothing I thought there was more to it and it is because you’re easy to listen too. It really does make a huge difference for people like me and I wanna thank you for that even if it’s not intentional lol
As an Ex-Mormon, I’m so glad you shared this story. People need to be informed what that church is actually like and what, at the corporate (top) level, it actually stands for. It can suck for the messenger, but those feathers need to be ruffled. Thank you for including it!
I can't vouch for the actual content of the video because I haven't watched it yet, but if story 3 got you interested in diving deeper into the LDS and MLM connection, Jordan and McKay on youtube recently put out a video discussing it. Could be a good follow-up piece for people seeking more information.
Watch it!!!! It is a great video!
It is an excellent video. They really show why LDS members are so apt to get into MLMs.
I concur with the true crime/mlm thing, I like both! For me it's the psychology behind it: how does someone end up committing a crime, how does someone get sucked into an mlm...
I'm pretty sure this is how I stumbled across Hannah also, I think she was suggested in my news feed because I watched a lot of true crime stuff. 😅
I think you have a missing link that is Cults ! People who love true crime, also love cults stories, and MLM are commercial cult
RE: LDS missionary budget, they are supposed to have dinner with a member of the church every day of the week, which would reduce grocery budget. Just additional info. 😊
that was my story!! we were fed by members but I had severe food restrictions and many of them couldn’t afford to feed me within my guidelines and gluten free/dairy free food is so much more expensive
Supposed to, but there’s rarely a safety net where that doesn’t happen.
The problem is that some missionaries dont get invited to dinner often enough or none at all and it seems the church isn't taking that into account
That depends on the area they're serving in. My brother served his mission in the Dominican Republic around 2015-2017. They were actually not ALLOWED to eat with the members except on holidays like Christmas because the people there could not afford to feed them in most cases. I have no idea what his budget was, but I do know that for most of his mission they actually had hired maids for the missionary apartments who were responsible for cooking for the missionaries. (Near the end of the mission, they no longer had maids.)
I'm LDS and extremely anti MLM 😂 Hard to be like this sometimes since I live 10 minutes from the Yount Living Lavendar farm 🙃
That's exactly how I feel, fellow LDS person that's also anti MLM
Also active LDS and hate MLMs. My parents were not into though and I'm not either.
Wow, I've heard a lot of horror stories now, but the lady telling the child to steal from her grandmother was a new low.
Ah yes, I tell people about the BITE model when I talk about missions and the only reason I realized it fell right into model was because your episode about that book selling MLM. After that I got super uncomfortable with all the MLM horror stories because they sounded a lot like my mission. I’ll add that when I served my mission in the early 2010s, 150 a month was enough for me but it was because we were in N. Florida, and we had a lot of support from the local congregations where we always had dinner with members. I believe the limited funds is partly to encourage missionaries to get into member’s homes so that they’re always thinking about missionaries, and to find people for the missionaries to teach. It also felt a little bit like surveillance. Members of the church watch the missionaries very closely, and have high expectations of us. Like one time the bishop of one our wards told us we needed to smile more, and a few days later our mission president told us that he heard from members of our congregation that we didn’t smile enough so we needed to fix that. @_@
Wow. The smiling thing is so icky. I am glad you didn't have to go hungry on your mission. My husband and I always fed the missionaries as often as we could as well as bought groceries for them when we did a Costco run.
I don't listen to true crime channels because I can't find any that don't report on murder cases...and I can't support people making money off of some random person's death that they just found on the Internet....gives me the biggest ick....
With the financial crime/cryptos arrests as of late, Coffeezilla's content might scratch the true crime itch without the violence.
The only “true crime” I consume is scams/frauds. For example, the missing crypto queen podcast. Or on RUclips, coffeezilla. Usually in those the victims want and are able to collaborate.
The ones about murders don’t interest me and are an ethical minefield.
The podcast Scam Goddess is pretty good. It exclusively covers (of course) scams.
Utah is the global hub for MLMs. The state has intentional regulation loopholes that makes it easy to operate a company in ways that would be illegal in most other states.
Why on earth would they take my vacuum cleaner with them? Isn’t this STEALING?!?! Never heard of such thing…If someone takes my vacuum cleaner and then I have to drive 60 miles to get it back, I’ll change them fuel and waste of time.
Some kind of sell are "Buy a new one, and we will take your old one with us" Think like fridge, or washing machine, or car. There is probably some kind of clause like that in the sell contract
They pitch it as a free disposal. We gave them a busted vacuum.
As someone who served an LDS mission, her experience is not norm... I know that people are gonna immediately jump down my throat for that, but I had nothing but I positive experience when I was a Mormon. I'm not one now because my understanding of God drastically changed, but had to at least mention that not every missionary has that cult-like experience
this was my story!! almost everyone that I have talked to that served around the same time as me 2017-2019 when the rules changed had a VERY similar experience. the people in charge of the mission department at that time were extremely controlling
i’m glad you read the LDS one. i personally have concerns about the church given their connection to not only MLMs, but the consistent violent crimes against women and children. i don’t agree with religions that follow such a strict path and control people’s lives so much. i think free thinking is the most important thing we have as people here on earth, and groups that try to take that away just ring alarm bells in my head. i think the LDS community needs to acknowledge, while people shouldn’t hate on them, they need to recognize the connection between their religious group and cult like structures/ MLMS / violent and sexual crimes. because the connection is very concerning! but thank you for shedding light on the situation and being respectful! love your videos Hannah!!❤
Stop scamming grandma!!!
You’re taught to doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith was a powerful line to hear. This one had some rly important stories, as horrific as they were to hear!!
Gosh, my heart dropped when she mentioned the elevator part. 😢 Even I felt hurt and angry, even though it's not even me, but then realized I'm not surprised.
Everytime I hear Avon mentioned in a video, I hear the child from Edward Scissorhands inside my head yell: "Ding dong, Avon lady!"
I grew up LDS and my mom was a customer for many, many, many MLMs. She brought me and my sister along to several product ”parties” as kids and I always enjoyed them. I think she trusted them more because she was being sold stuff from her friends and fellow believers. It also means when I started looking into selling, no one batted an eye. Thank god I’m shy because it helped me not last long lol. I wish I had gotten a better education on these issues much earlier in life, though, as it would have saved me so much emotional turmoil, my reputation, and of course, money!
The rules for Kirby Reps sounds like the rules for Vampires. Don’t invite them in. 😂😂😂
Adding some thoughts as another LDS member, but thank you so much Hannah for being polite! Too often, I hear people who don't agree with my religion that try to break it down and rip it to pieces. While I can tell you don't necessarily agree with the church, you did your best to remain impartial, and that means a lot 💕
I'll also mention that, yes, in the past especially, there had been a lot of push to not question the gospel and just try harder. However the church has had a greater push on what we call "personal revelation," which is all about finding answers for yourself. If there's something about church history you struggle with, dive into it and find out for yourself what you think. That's been a big push in recent years, and I like to see how that has encouraged us as members to think for ourselves and gain our own opinions on all sides of the gospel.
Thank you again for your kindness! I was nervous when I saw the thumbnail, but I'm so relieved to see this didn't turn into a bashing session so all could enjoy!
Thank you for this comment. There's a lot of faith-bashing going on in the comments. The story was very anti-faith imo because it left out the whole revelation process.
Ex-mormon here. So the church encourages you to Google search church history and fact-check stuff now? Or is it just like... Pray about it? This was very discouraged against during my time (90's and 00's)
@@jelyfisherthis was my story!! I have severe PTSD and religious OCD because of my mission. I was known to be one of the most faithful missionaries in the mission and worked extremely hard. The revelation I received was that the way my mission president handled thing was extremely damaging and my very active and faithful family are still appalled all these years later by how I was mistreated. Personal revelation also reveals that the church isn’t for everyone and missions are especially difficult for many many people. Maybe if the story made you feel defensive then you should reflect on why.
@@kndr2094yes, you're encouraged to take your concerns to the Lord in prayer. It's an exercise of faith.
@@clairedeluneonthemoonI couldn't finish your story because, whatever your faith was on your mission, I heard a lot of contempt and skepticism. I know my faith, and what you wrote hurts my heart, but it's not because I need to doubt what I know. It's because I'm sad you can't share the same experiences. I'm sorry you got hurt, and I hope you find healing.
I won't be replying anymore.
My mom's side of the family aren't active, but technically we've all been baptized into, "The Church." I'm, atheist, but when, missionaries come to the door, I say, "we're already mormon, bye bye!"
I think another interesting aspect of the LDS model is an understanding that you can't keep "recruiters" long term because they'll start questioning too much. If MLMs adopt a similar structure, it would be interesting and horrifying.
Lmao I remember some random guy vacuuming my bed when I was a kid. We had soo many door to door salespeople come to our house. Anything from meat to vacuums to encyclopedias. So glad that isn’t a huge thing anymore.
First notification I see after landing in Madrid! My holiday is starting off great!!
I sold Tupperware 18 years ago. It sort of sold itself, but I didn’t do it more than a couple years. Mostly because I can’t do the aggressive sales approach. The woman who was my director wasn’t “LDS” but she did use her church to start her business. Probably because you start with who you spend the most time with, family, friends, community. 🙂
While this video focused on the LDS church, the same can be applied to really any church or community for people who are doing MLMs.
One of the lessons from these stories is Stick Up For Yourself! These huns are counting on their marks’ politeness even though their own behavior is aggressive, rude, and highly inappropriate. The woman on the bridge is a great model for all of us. Throw it back at them. (The Kirby reps in your house, esp!)
Lol, grew up LDS and thought it was a cult at eight years old. I remember my father inviting missionaries in because they were often hungry, tired, dehydrated, and some were kind of out of it from walking all day. I was actually friends (in the way a 20 year old can be with a 14 year old) with a missionary and used to sneak her my treats from Sunday school because I felt really bad for her. She visited us pretty frequently because my father always welcomed missionaries and probably because my family never saw anyone go hungry (besides me, I guess)
Your last little note there at the end made me sad - I hope you're doing OK 💕 thanks for sharing your experiences with us here
I've been watching you since you were at around 30k subs. I'm so happy that you are basically at 150k!!! I just knew your channel would blow up with all the juicy content being put out at such a consistent pace. 🎉
To rob a thief! That’s the movie. Anyone who likes this anti-mlms should watch this movie. Memory unlocked 🤯
We had a very similar Kirby experience- they would not do the presentation without us both present- myself and spouse. We decided not to purchase and had to run the guy out and he tried to take our vacuum with him when he left!
Separate note, from the first story- if you aren’t mentally ready to possibly have a disabled child with heavy medical needs, don’t have kids. How dare the ex husband leave her because of the pregnancy! He has the “luxury” of being able to abandon his own family because he had to take up more responsibility for his newborn while she has additional responsibilities without the support of a loving partner. That was so disturbing and so was the hun interaction. When Hannah read the “when the pregnancy fails” part, I gasped so loud my dog ran over to me from the other room. I seriously hope her and her kiddos are doing so much better now and I wish her all the best.
That story about the rep telling the girl to steal money from her grandmother was one of the most outrageous things I have ever heard on your channel.
Ugh, that last lady is the worst. Also bullying a child telling her that everyone will make fun of her for not having her own mascara. In the fifth freaking grade!
Hearing Hannah say "deadass" outloud made me giggle! Love these videos.
Thank you for the Playlist. Going through it while knitting today
I cook and do housework while binge listening to Hannah’s content. 😊
Happy knitting and binging 😊
I am an ex Mormon, that grow up in Utah, and know dozens of people in MLMs. I even worked for cooperate at one. My experience was not this girls, though appreciate her insights. Very few MLM members I know served a mission. Mostly, they were stay at home moms, looking to make a side income and/or hobby and/or friends. Utah has very favorable laws for MLM cooperations, and my belief, is that simply due to proximity, the Utahans are targeted.
The missions are not as restrictive these days, elders/sisters can frequently and almost daily communicate with family at home.
I do think the church’s structure and obsession with authority is off, but that isn’t the point of this comment, I just wanted to add another perspective as someone who 1) grew up in Utah 2) grew up Mormon 3) worked at and MLM and 4) knows many many in MLMs. I am anti MLM but love many in MLMs.
I literally binged all the mlm horror Stories of you in like two weeks. Fell in love with your channel! Came for the influencer insanity (thank you algorithm), stayed for the mlm content 🤭😍
Still my favorite in the game. Thank you for the care you put into these videos and the way you discuss these topics.
I'm also training my english as foreign language with your videos. I'm interested in the subject and also appreciate your vibes and clear pronunciation 😊
I was watching a video from a non-MLM creator. He showed a meme where a person meets up with an old friend from 10 years ago, hidden behind the friend's back is a MLM pyramid scheme. People all around the World are waking up to the tactics of the MLM huns.
Thanks for great videos! :) I was a mormon for six years and I’ve never seen so many MLM sales pitches as in that time
Working nights Monday is my day off and it always starts with a nice cup of coffee and these stories. Been subbed since your Posh days and it's amazing to see the steady growth. Congrats Hannah, you deserve it!
This is such a random thing to say and I mean this in the nicest way possible because I think you're adorable, but you look so much like a grown up version of Cindy Lou Who!
I've been loving your content, keep up the excellent work!!
I’m so sad, I’ve been subscribed since 15k and just saw I’d been unsubscribed in the last couple days!? I’m hoping this didn’t happen for a bunch of us, I’ve been so happy for you and your success lately🥰❤️ so proud of you!💓
I love your channel Hannah. You educate and discuss topics in such a compassionate and caring way.
Just wanted to come in and say Hi! Love the videos! I also love the new influencer videos and started sharing those videos to my daughter's as extra media literacy- especially since I don't have tik tok and didn't realize how ad driven it has become! Thanks for all you do!
Thank you again Hannah. You are so kind and respectful, even when the 'characters' in the stories are not deserving. You are an amazing creator!
Despite how horrible the stories always are, I love the way that so many are able to tell them with adding interjections like “Mary Kay sales rep“ or “ cue dramatic background music indicating the eventual loss of hours of my life“ for a brief moment of levity.
I also really appreciate you being open and transparent about how your personal relationships take precedence over commentary on particular topics, that is not only commendable, but truly a testament to your heart, soul, character, and purpose of what you create. You’re a blessing.
It’s all the same thru any cult, religion or MLMs. If you fail it’s all your fault and no fault of the organization.
Indeed, just like how pretty much everyone who deconvents from a religion is accused of "never being a TRUE [insert label]" - because they cannot possibly have had legitimate issues with the belief system
Ex-mormon here! Thankfully I never got too deep into the MLMs. I did get pitched a few times, but thankfully while growing up I never dealt with an MLM.
I’m so glad I found your channel. I love story time type of content. I like listening to your videos while decluttering.
The irony of me watching this after Fundie Fridays just did serveral deep dives on Christian misson organizations, not the LDS, but stilll the connections are absolutely insane 😭
Good morning Hanna could you make one for a company call live good there been active for 2 years and they claim they have one million people already
36:33: my cat is running around my laptop looking for the "intruder" 🤣
As an ex mormon, I will say that I still adore missionaries. They go through sooooo much. I only went through the MTC but had a mental breakdown from being in there so they sent me home at the end of the 3 weeks (It felt like 7 years in there). At the end of the day, they are just kids who think they are doing the right thing. It is unnecessary trauma and most who get baptized are out of guilt (i know because I was one of those people guilted and the people who was brainwashed to guilt others). To this day, if I see a missionary I give them some water or just say hi and give them a moment to chill between teaching even though I've taken my name out of the church and am fully out. They are just kids and they need some kindness.
I love your stories ❤ I stole 10.00 from my dads pants on the floor when I was 12. Its bothered me ny whole life and he passed when I was 16 so I never got to apoligize. I have apoligized to him on the otherside and I know he forgives me, but I have carried this guilt for years and felt that old deep pain again listening to this story. I hope the lady that encouraged that poor girl to steal has changed and realized the domino effect these small actions can cause.
The first story made me gasp a lot and then made me sick. I am from Utah but I moved to Ca with my mom and sister at 9. My dad and his side are still there, so I grew up visiting my dad every year and more often when as I got older. Obviously the Mormon MLM connection was very interesting and it made so much sense as I think back. None of my family are Mormon but I still have friends there who are. I have heard some stories that really boggle my mind and truthfully concern me about their beliefs. I have never had any pressure from friends.not saying they didn’t try. But I always was told by my mom never fall for these companies that I never understood, but I am very grateful for her preparing me young lol I will always have a reason not to go to any MLM party because I know I would give in because I don’t do good under pressure lol if I don’t know the person I would have no problem saying no. Actually kinda wish I will get a hey hun message to be entertained 😊
Have you ever thought of hiring an assistant to edit your videos to make a "Master list of Kirby stories?"
They are some of my favorites, but I know you have so many videos, and a young child, that quest line would be long.
I cant remember how many subs you had when i first subscribed but i think it was under 50k. Im thrilled to see your subs blow up to 150k! Congratulations! Horror stories is my favorite series on here.
Good morning Hannah! Thanks for the new upload. All the stories reach deep for me and the experiences I have had as well. Keep up the good work. ❤❤
Congratulations on your silver play button. Also, congratulations on smashing that by 50% near weeks later. So proud of you been here since before 50k.
Genuinely can’t comprehend the behavior of the rep in the first story, even satan himself couldn’t be this cruel in his torment
The "We need you husband at home too" is, to help overcome the "Well I need to check with my spouse first" if both decision makers are there, less of a chance they will push you out the door.
In car sales many dealerships ask "will you be buying the car or you and your spouse?" so they can get the high pressure push ready. If a person leave the lot, less then 10% ever return, so they want someone signed before leaving and the old "Well I need to check with my Husband/Wife" can be squashed right away.
I loved this video. So much going on with LDS and a Hun asking a child to steal to help her business. To what length individual will go to enhance their belief systems - whatever it takes to recruit or make money is okay, even when it violates norms, laws, and moral traditions.
The $30 kirby purchase from Goodwill made me laugh out loud.