Tiananmen Square Anniversary Panel | Oxford Union
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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30 Years on from the Tiananmen Square protests and massacres, the torch of democracy and freedom is increasingly difficult to carry in China. Through censorship and collective amnesia, the events of 1989 have often been diminished. Millions poured onto the streets in a peaceful protest, and the government violently retaliated. How important is this memory and legacy to pro democracy movements in China today, and how can we best commemorate the protests and demands of students and workers on the Square?
SPEAKERS
Fengsuo Zhou: Zhou was a leader of the pro-democracy Tiananmen protests, and fifth on the most wanted list of student leaders. He is now the President of Humanitarian China.
Wu’er Kaixi: Kaixi had an important student presence in 1989, and was second on the most wanted list. He was a leader of hunger strikes and was responsible for organising the protests.
Dongfang Han: Dongfang is a labour and democracy activist. He founded Communist China’s first independent union, becoming the most wanted worker leader. He now leads the China Labour Bulletin.
Dr Shao Jiang: Jiang was a member of the student leadership, who spent 8 years under house arrest as a prisoner of conscience in China.
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This is not a debate because there is not an opposing side!
The first guy appealed his fellow students to take a hunger protest and went to Beijing Restaurant for dinner after. When unfortunately taken by camera, he published a video and said “how weak and panic the government is, they even want to control a student having meal. 😨👍 yeah it’s ur freedom and human rights.
Is this how people debate in Oxford Uni?
@Tao Wu I asked a legitimate logical question and you gave a stupid ideological answer! Do you understand the meaning of "two wrongs don't make it a right"
I do agree this is not a debate in its usual sense. However, the fact that real debate on this topic has not been allowed for three decades inside China, only gave rise to this kind of one sided accusation from outside China. I do not pass judgement on the right or wrong on both sides, but this is the unfortunate situation we are facing: two sides talk over each other, no one is listening.
Unfortunately having a real international investigation or at least a debate having opposing side is impossible when this opposing side is strictly hiding information about this for 30 years meaning they have something to hide and don't want their own people to know about that, which only drags even more attention to them and makes them looking more guilty. If nothing really happened and there are many defenders from that opposing side and they have proof and can answer a lot of good questions then they have nothing to worry about and wouldn't ban communication about this event every year and make activists disappear all the time or put them under home arrest until the day they will die or worse. You can find across the Internet a lot of stories from different layers of society from Beijing, kids, their parents at that time, teachers those days, etc. You will see that they can not tell much about that not because they don't want to be part of the debate, but because they might end up like a lot of others who disappeared or ended up under arrest or died for last 30 years, people like Liu Xiaobo, Nobel Peace Prize laureate who spent most of his life under arrest and died in 2017.
Not to mention Zhao Ziyang who was General Secretary of the Communist Party of China until protests he supported were crashed. After this act of terrorism he was put under arrest until the rest of his life. This is a price for loyalty and hard work for your nation and government for decades.
A lot of government officials from around the world asked China to finally reveal more information and release activists to make this debate/investigation possible. General officials of CPC themselves are also not interested in having a debate.
Another part of opposing side who throw random statements from nothing happened in 1989 till UK and US helped organize those protests and used students as well as workers and state officers, and even corrupted general Secretary of the CPC - well, they always end up with changing the topic, "Good question", and whatever else without being able to provide a logical answer and some evidence.
30 years after they all speak fluent English. That’s it. Nothing more.
Rack off troll!
holboroman troll nimadiao
Tao Wu you are the who's brainwashed troll
....good on them? Are you trying to imply that it's something bad?
This video was not a debate, but there would be a one in the comments.
Wuerkaixi is living upon funding from US, so.. another day of ‘’job well-done’’
Hao Cai he betrayed the students and left them behind, but just escaped. Coward , he is. Western dog, he is. If he was the patriot, how can he now stand with Taiwan separatists and calls it a country? Shame !
@@josendasilva8062 Your Han chauvinism is overflowing in the above comment. And you wonder why we in the West don't trust the authoritarian, one-party system and it's brainwashing and firewalls...
@@nicholaspearson4246 I distaste the 'western dog' label. but fyi, 95% of Taiwan population are Han people, so it is not a matter of Han chauvinism. Do some homework before calling someone 'brainwashed'.
Hao Cai is living upon breeding from his communist party, so.. another day of "zombie well-done"
@@mflo5244 You FAILED to comment on the "firewall" bit..Hao Cai is doing his country a big favour!
an one-voice only show of DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Hou May If Chinese communist party could be finished easily as you said, they won’t invite these worthless guys to show up in Oxford.
If oxford invited commies and they refused, what you said makes some sense.
But they didn’t.
Who is the funny one? At least not me.
shin chan nice brain washing effort, though you don’t know one thing: China is not a communist country.
shin chan since you agreed, there will be no more words from me.
shin chan don’t “waste your time” from the start next time, hahaha.
@shin chan It's funny to see a moron thinks others are the stupid ones.
Those student leaders are shameless, they treated Tianamen as ATM every 4th June....
It's so ironic to see that my fellow Chinese are breaking censors to comment here, cursing democracy and freedom, filled with loyalty and faith to their dear party mother.❤ love you
Had they succeeded in the movement in 1989, the Chinese economy would rank 198.9th today.
Because China is so big and powerful. if it has democracy political system it has a potential element to dis-unify the country.
CCP did some bad things in the past, but they know how to fix the problem rather than complain.
Once china becomes democracy, it can lead to tibet, xinjiang and taiwan independence which can be disastrous for the entire chinese race
@@Xtremzer0 those people love to see this happen in the future or past
And subject to western influence for civil war. Look at all the civil wars caused by the USA
Yet succession made the best country in the world...USA
Heng Yan, most are working poor, pay check to pay check, working for the top 1%. Not everything is so Rosie.
So a debate with only one side?
it says it is a panel. Pretty funny that your comment is in support of a totalitarian regime.
@Tao Wu you must be a blind person. Go to see a doctor to get treatmeant
@Tao Wu Dude, that is not an argument, that's just personal opinion passed off as judgement. Also go google wiki leaks, there was no tiananmen massacre, sure there's bloodshed but its nothing like what was reported from the west.
@@ericcartmann "lmao all government lie mate. Especially ones that have complete control of the media"
FYI, western media dominates the world, like 80% globally. That's how western narrative gets spread across the world unchallenged. Go google for wiki leaks on the tiananmen incident. Its nothing like what you have been fed with. Then there's the full footage of the infamous tank man, watch it and realize how you have been brainwashed by western media when they cut the footage short or using still frame to falsely insinuate that the tankman was harmed.
@Hou May Who says it has to be the CCP to be the other side? And if Oxford did invite and CCP declined, why didn't they say so? If it's a debate, you need to have two sides, one opposing side and one supporting side. Get a dictionary and look the word up.
Much needed debate
Was at Victoria Park last eve for the vigil. Wikileaks published reports from the US embassy in Beijing in 89, stated that students were the ones to first initiate violence and started fighting with the soldiers
Source link ?
@icecool1616 "According to the Tiananmen Papers, a collection of internal Communist party files, soldiers started using live ammunition at around 10.30pm, after trying and failing to disperse the crowd with tear gas and rubber bullets. Incredulous, the crowd tried to escape but were hampered by its own roadblocks."
36min I totally agree.
who cares. LOL
These are the real Chinese, who have heart, soul and love, unlike the Chinese 50cent army, who never had a life.
@@jiezhai9364 Thanks for showing up in great timing, as an vivid example of 50cent army
LOL HA 哈哈I love China, I will contribute to make China better instead of like those so type of people who just to complain and do nothing to make thins better! One word those just losers.
You guys don't make Yellow Vest anniversary? I see more blood there than Tiananmen Square video.
Long live Taiwan. Long live the republic of china.
Looking back, it's crystal clear that Deng Xiaoping and Li Peng made an excellent crucial decision to save China from harm. With the economic and political situations at the time, China obviously must not risk implementing 'perestroika' and 'glasnost' simultaneously, otherwise, it would have collapsed like the Soviet Union.
I would not argue that those lives lost were very sad, but there were lives lost from both sides: there were soldiers killed, burned, hacked to death. When we remember the death of students and civilians, and hold the government accountable to those death, who should be responsible to those soldiers? Most of them were from poor rural agricultural communities, joining army were their only hope getting out of poverty. They never had the privilege of getting a high education, nor the privilege of living in a city getting in touch of the idea of freedom. They were the same age as those students maybe even younger. All I can say is this is a very inexperienced government handled a very immaturely led protest poorly. No country would allow their major cities to be blocked and hold to a standstill for more than a month! No country. Chinese government had learned from its mistake, its handle of Hongkong protest was much better. I sympathize with these survivors, and I wish them all the best in their future. I understand the personal hurt and trauma will take a long time to heal, maybe never will heal. I can only imagine how they have suffered. I do hope, one day, this event will no longer be used as a political game from ideological sides, all those dead could be properly acknowledged, all those suffered could be properly compensated.
Yes. It will be a great step forward for Chinese government can acknowledge and accept that they screwed big time and many times. Start telling the truth instead of hiding facts. Then they will be the first in Asia to be a political entity that is able to acknowledge past mistake. In that way, win more credibility through influence instead of force.
fighting for freedom and Democracy，it is great，but please stop lying。
Well, you got de-bait. Now where de fish?
I've been doing EFL and various jobs in mainland China for 16 years. Most anyone with any kind of education knows about six4 (4gyv my worries about cens0rz). It's an open secret.
Btw, it's irony that the bot comments below need a VPN to even access this video.
Yes, "fear" is indeed the key word, as Mr. Han Dongfang pointed out.
Even a group of peaceful milk cows trying for some freedom or self-determination will cause the farmer to crack down. Fear of losing control - fear of not being able to milk them anymore - fear of losing status and identity as "the big farmer".
This is by no means China-specific. Only the nature of the "domesticated animals" and the nature of the "big farmers" changes slightly, culturally. But all big farmers intently watch, and learn from, each crack down, domestic or foreign, and get better at it...
(I don't mean to offend. I like all animals, even some of the farming kind.) 😁
PS: Near the end of the video some of the speakers call the "big farmers" a group of bandits, fearful biting dogs, systematic butchers. - From the milk cows' perspective that is certainly correct.
If you want to equate yourself with animals it is not china specific!
@@holboroman Yes, those in power see the human masses as something to exploit. The farm animal analogy fits and is not China-specific. Many/most animals also develop trust, and may come to like their "farmers" - think nationalistic Stockholm Syndrome. .
听完了，觉得乌尔开希的英文不错，口音可以啊，第三位回去好好练练英文发音，发型要改改。你们是勇敢的一代人，有了你们的存在才能衬托今日中国之伟大，富强。
dong lin
全职工作，整天要在欧美演讲，30年如一日地讲同一件事。
Dr J悟 发现他们这些人能力都还是可以的，毕竟都是清华北大毕业的，要在今天，估计都可以在中国担任要职，可惜了，人生有时候走错道了，就再也回不来了。有悬崖勒马的，像金老师这种。
dong lin
没错，都是聪明人，尤其吾儿开席，满嘴跑火车，能忽悠。就是错误地估计了形式，站错了队。
看着中国的飞速发展，你以为他们这些人不羡慕嫉妒恨，所以，就像很多的反华派一样，他们就盼着中国栽跟头，他们心理好平衡一下，好受一点。
It is not a debate but one show for money.
To those who understand Chinese, I encourage you to watch all the related videos on RUclips. I cannot assure you that there is no damage in the June 4th movement, but to call it "massacre" is way too exaggerating. After parsing accounts from all sides, I found many conflicting figures, especially on the number of casualties during the night. The problem is that a few student leaders at the time control all the narratives about the June 4th movement, these people are now in their 50 or 60.
I am from post 90's generation, and I have liberal values and believe in democracy. I also believe that every country has its own political evolutionary path, and should not be at the mercy of the outside influence. From what I have read, the outside influence in this event is pretty evident!
Which outside influence exactly are you talking about?
If it is just a typical influence, then what's wrong with it, and how do you want to avoid it when you live on the same planet and people are free to travel and study in another part of the world. You are free to listen, follow whoever you want and make your own decisions as well as not to listen, not to follow, ignore.
If you were forced to make certain decision against your own will, than this another topic and is not influencing, it's called - threatening.
There is China Town in Paris for example, and if it should "not be at mercy of the outside influence", are you suggesting Parisians show no mercy to local residents and wipe this beautiful district of Paris?
Also Chinese people overthrown Qing Dynasty because they were underdeveloped and were influenced by the outside world. Does it mean that modern China should go back to the dark ages?
Not to mention so many Chinese studying abroad including Deng Xiaoping himself who was studying in France.
Nobody got hurt in Tiananmen Square on the June of 1989. The white shirt man was not run over by the tank he stood in front of a row of 20 tanks.
When i was in study medicine in chinese University on paying..
I faced humiliation and totly voiceless and fear throughout my studies and always think.i am done something wrong that's why i came here to study which earlier i didn't know anything about too much communism..
I experienced communist rule,i will never going to live in communist and izlamik country's...
Bravo. Best wishes from India dear friend. Democracy too have it sets of CONS. Nothing is perfect.
Do you even english dumbfuck?
Really would like to know the fact that how you have been humiliated in China and how you have experienced communist rules as a medical student.
M Chen he can’t graduate from university.
You don't even have a real name.
I looked up to Handongfang once, I thought he was the one amongst the activists who actually want to do something to promote democracy. but what a shitty argument he used to bash China, all factory workers around the world lost their jobs because China doesn't have unions? So the ultimate goal to form up worker unions in China is to hand over jobs back to the West? Raise the workers' salaries high enough no western corporations would offshore their factories in China? That solves what? China's poverty problem or democracy problem? or simply a way to suck up to the western listeners. Chinese workers lack the right to have a say is one thing, the developed countries' workers lost their jobs is another, binding two separate problems together to make it more appealing to western ears is simply just wrong. Multinational corporations are to blame here, to them exploiting Chinese workers are far easier and profitable than to exploit western workers. To solve the west problem, just tax the hell off them for offshoring force them to hire domestic workers. Don't mix the problems and put the blame of every world's problem on China.
Calm down, China.
When is Indian-American massacre anniversary?
Change needs to come from within the CCP. I live in Vietnam and the situation is very similar. Resistance from the outside is just futile in these style of countries. As for the recording, I found the discussion about the Uighurs to be especially compelling. I believe few people today understand the sheer scale of repression that is occurring there right now. It's very troubling.
The situation is completely different in Vietnam, there was no massacre there. It's also impossible to expect any change from CCP, they've killed more than 10000 innocent people during the 1989 protest, once they give up their power, people will not forgive them.
Agreed with Ly L, China and Vietnam is completely different. China is 56 times more powerful than Viewtnam and Chinese people are very happy where they are. But keep your hope though that one day there will be someone who will try to stir up the violence and throw out the government like these losers did in 89. I am not going to bet on it though.
@@untertk3048 I'm actually more worried about the immigration policies of democratic countries, many of them have allowed descendants or relatives of the ruling class to enter their country despite the fact that many of them were involved in various violations of human rights in China. That's why even in the community of Chinese people living abroad, the majority of them has a vested interest in safeguarding this repressive regime. Efforts should be made to stop China's infiltration, otherwise it's going to be disastrous for the whole civilized world.
If what you described really happened, the top profited party is us and other us linked, so I’m pretty sure you did not fully consider from all perspectives. Cz that’s exactly what china’s enemy want to see cz no other party could manage massive nations and develop them in this speed.
Bullshit you are not vietnamese, the average vietnamese doesn´t care about uighurs that just weterners who want to use these people as a way to weak china.
I love it
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
just for money and political, not freedom.
It’s disgusting to see Wuerkaixi’s face.
FREE CHINA N BRING DEMOCRACY N FREEDOM TO CHINA😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Chinese government should be abolished.
Those who intended to compromise stand with the students till the end, those who were so tough thus caused the event directly have ran. 吾尔开希 Has been ousted by the students group and they refused to admit him as a leader. So he organised the hunger strike and caused so many innocent students' blood spread on the square.
我一个中国人都觉得口音好重
These bunch of guys were dyed-in-the-wool. They liked to hear their own voice too much, like playing an old laserdisc, again and again... They got some points, but sadly they didn't articulate in a logical or an unbiased manner. Disappointed ☹️
Just like the wu maos!
Those are the clowns
开希先生的回答，真的是令人动容。保重，中国一定会到那一天的。
耳闻目睹2022年这片土地上发生的事之后，再听听开希先生最后那段总结发言，五味杂陈
I thought it was a debate!
CaesarZX No it isn’t.
Where does it even say debate? Xiao Wu Mao
Lois Xiao daiwan (()), it isn’t. It’s a show.
Lois oxford union isn’t a place for debate? Shabi
@@lois101 you should've listened more carefully.
Not only have you not much knowledge, but you are also working as foreign agents. You can fool Oxford Union because they don't know the Chinese language, culture, domestic politics, and global politics, but you can't fool Chinese people though. Dude, get real!
Wu'erh Kai Shi is impressive now as he was in 1989. What a great man.
He is a liar
@@Vermilion2049 You think so? Why don't you explain why you believe that? Merely labeling him a liar is not helpful. I'm open to learning new information.
Chinese trolls are out in force on this one lol
that norwegianguy you are a hillbilly and a white troll
@ISqo SEE THIS THE WHOLE SHOW.. AND YOU TELL ME WAS THIS MAKE KNOW TO YOU BY WESTERN MEDIA?
@iP3Q SEE THIS THE WHOLE SHOW AND
YOU HAVE TO ASK WITH ALL FAIRNESS IF IT HAPPENS IN USA, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL ARMY BE SENT IN. LOOK AT THE CURRENT PROTEST. YOU TELL ME ?
I was from Hong Kong. Graduated at Oxford and Keble College.
how about a talk on opium war? we can see the value the so called free and democratic westerners share. I think it will be more interesting and inspiring.
ironically, u don't know what is the democracy in China, but universities students could have the demonstrations on the streets with the support from the citizens and without the crackdown from the government before the occurrence of that event.
Hi, Wuerkaixi, dont forget the financial assitantce from Taiwan, and you've taken them all without sharing with other initiators, good job and well done👍
一本正经的满口忽悠，和GCD有什么区别。。。
The Chinese Bandit Party has a nice ring :)
Do you call this a debate? well good job Oxford UNION!
Not once does it mention Debate, it says panel.
And.......here comes the Wumaos!!!
you weren't kidding
朋友们大家好，在这里我们只说抽象话，做抽象人。 64真凶找到了@带带大师兄
人均🐶粉丝
Please remember until today in 2019, only 4% of people get higher education (of course based on our population is still a tremendous number) ，extreme poverty still exists and 1300$ per month is the top 10% income group in China.
No doubts, democracy, human rights, even animal rights, are important. However, China still needs a long time and lots efforts in many areas such as children's education, economic development, and environmental protection, etc. to make our Chinese have a better life and have the ability and wisdom to face the future's challenges. how can these people say democracy is what China should do before these things
If these people who are eager to push China becomes a democratic country, don't know these basic premise situation about China, they are stupid;
if they know it, they are a foolish and egregious liar.
"Collective amnesia"? Reminds me of the West and its colonial past
A bunch of liars, you should be responsible for the tragedy. You used the students !
If there is no Jun.4, 1989, China should be more democratic. They did not lead well for this event and missed the opportunity. They should be shamed, not be proud.
Truth is now no one new generation Chinese know anything about tianmen squire and old people can't speak and suggest me please don't talk otherwise both were face trouble...
New generation chinese have students forgot debate word's..
I know, lots of Chinese international student knew.
What most of the new gen will tell you. It’s all a lie, the tianmen Square massacre did not happened. And all the same go with RUclips 50cent army will pump out that same message.
@@fakruk they know there was a conflict between civilian and army. They just argue that the tank man picture western media posted, he didn't die there was a video on RUclips.
Chuyao Chen I didn’t talk about tank man. I’m just saying must Chinese Mainland I talk to they saying it’s all a lie. Nothing happen.
Chinese goverment help west to block his people to know the truth of 6.4, because when they cross the wall of internet and saw the truth of what happen in 6.4, they knew that, all west media are so hypocrisy, and they all know it was right desicion to crack down the so call "democracy" event! thanks to greate leader, Mr Deng, he save china from this event, and make china greate again!!!!
Wu’er Kaixi said to Li Ao who is a writer form Taiwan that if the movment happens again, he will take part in this movment or not.
He answered that he will definitely not do this. It is totally wrong. he is too young and too simple.
太久了，很难说，连当事人都不知道有没毒杀，个别伤亡肯定有毕竟是运动，大规模毒杀难说
如果发生了的事是绝对掩盖不住了，六四视频画面那么多，有一个捕捉到屠杀画面的了吗？
There’s also irony in his speech.
should this be called a debate?
it's not called a debate you blind lobotomite, it clearly says in the title "panel" not "debate"
How do people define massacre?
I respect the Union for organising the panel, but the whole 'debate' is disappointing as it offered nothing more than accusations from a few survivors (which have been repeated for thirty years), without a competing narrative of what led to the protest and crackdown - a narrative does exist among left-wing liberal intellectuals in China. Understandable (given the poor analysis of China on mainstream media), but not good for reaching the goals these speakers claim.
Wuerkaixi? Kidding me? So disappointed.
uh oh
it is time to earn money
very good speech !
thank you oxford.
吾儿开溜 哈哈哈😄
哈哈哈哈哈 笑死
What does that Latin phrase in the middle of Oxford Union say???
Dominus illuminatio mea it is latin for No blacks or plebs en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominus_illuminatio_mea
disappointing, bad chair, no challenging questions from the audience
韓東方的英語亦棒。不失世界工運領袖一員。Bravo!
请问你当年说军队猥亵女同学是否造谣？
Heros
I really don't like these guys telling lies. Democracy is people having good lif not fake votes.
Jedi solo Is there any problem when chinese talk about the japanese atrocities during wwll? Or do u want to defend them?
@Jedi solo I'd like to talk anything happened on the history of china. BUT NO LIES PLEASE. I'd like to judge the good or bad politics by people's life. BUT NOT THE ILLUSION OF DEMOCRACY.
I live in a democratic country, and yes my manager decide my salary.
Ask for a raise, or quit.
He is real traitor after listening his talk.All rubbish,fake and one side talk.No waste time anymore this topic and to any reply
Brainwashed Chinese.
Who are the participants?
A bunch of CIA paid hounds
这是个怂比 比谁都跑的快
If you don’t know China’s long history ，culture and reality,how could you define democracy for China?even apply for capitalism,but every country is still different.Chinese people still miss the times of Chairman Mao.
Mao was a genocidal mass murderer - he killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined - Fact!
A group of liars sitting together again?!
这些不是坏就是蠢，真是奇葩。
@@fixfrass2590 我上油管就是想找中国政府64的罪证，结果却只看到了这些吃屎狗的鬼话连篇。真他妈的没有最无耻只有更无耻。
@@GIO-zh6nl 我当年听说64时候也是，既然不许自由讨论一定有啥见不得人的。结果出来就看到柴婊，我的天怎么有这种戏精。后来在见从新疆“逃”出去的戏精都见怪不怪了。后来看到了kekistan的meme（在母国/母教受到压迫，逃出来，寻求政治庇护的一系列套路，在ted上演讲，在高校辩个论，毕业典礼作为学生代表讲讲话感谢一下自由民主），就觉得啊哈哈哈，这个剧本经久不衰。
@@fixfrass2590 妈的我上油管第一件事就是找枪杀学生和坦克碾压学生的视频，却只找到了这些垃圾把坦克人视频下半部分删掉造假新闻的实证，而这些假新闻现在还在传播！西方的媒体都他妈的选择性失明，狗屁的新闻自由！骗鬼呢！
@@GIO-zh6nl bbc最近就是放了半个视频。。太误导了
吾尔开希万万岁!
别用这种奴性语言，拜托。没有人一万岁，大家都是平等的。
One major problem right now is that there is not a single functional "open talking platform" between the people and the Chinese government to exchange ideas and suggestions, people in China mainland have questions and complains, and yes the governments knows all about them, but they just pretend that they don't. For the first step of "talk" to be completed, one must not speak his voice only, he must sure that the other side hears it, and that the both acknowledge that. THEN the other side starts reply, and so on. Before this platform is set, everything everyone does is to no avail.
yeah that's called a democracy. the government doesn't allow it
USS Liberty Panel? WTC building 7 Panel?
努力演说努力赚钱 这才你利益集团
Sensationalism. The whole world suddenly cares about Tiananmen Square when the US have had multiple kinds of these riots such as the LA riots where about 100 people including women and children were killed and 11,000 arrested. The media called the President and Police 'decisive'. Why don't we have worldwide headlines talking about this?
The "whole world" is "suddenly" "interested" because it's remembrance of the event that occured 30 years ago, June 4. 11000 arrested is quite different from using tanks to roll over students and showering real bullets onto hapless students. Hundreds of women and children died. From what? Police killed them? U sure? Or was it unruly behaviour of civilians that caused the death? That will justify the arrests then. Again very different from being killed by army tanks that rolled over Chinese students. Army tanks and soldier bullets are meant for defending civilians against foreign invaders and defending borders, not for killing civilians who did not use violence.
@@Catherinetatethefkingliberty They were shot by police. Go search up the 1992 Los Angeles Riots and the Texas Riots a mere year later. It would be like China holding the Los Angeles Remembrance of an event that they had no part in.
Also, regarding your knowledge on Tiananmen Square, I used to believe all the bs that you believe. Here's a useful article which uncovers alot of the details behind the incident. www.unz.com/article/tiananmen-square-1989-revisited/#comments
The website is managed by an American Republican who has run for state, holding degress from Harvard, Cambridge and Stanford so you can be sure he is not a Chinese spy.
@@popinzxcv The Rodney King riots and the actions of the LAPD leading up and during them was a huge scandal that generated worldwide headlines and is talked about often in the US and lead to reform in Los Angeles and in other police departments. That is quite a different situation from the June 4th Massacre where the Chinese government pretends that either 1. there was no massacre or 2. that it was somehow justified because letting people freely express dissent is dangerous "chaos" that would mean no more economic growth (while in reality many of China's neighbors democratized and continued their economic growth without much issues).
Read both already.
LA riots were exactly that. Riots. Violence was involved then plus destruction and looting of properties and vigilantism, no wonder the police had to shoot them. Yes there is No need for memorial unless one wishes to commemorate vigilantism and justify vandalism to protest the verdict by the judge.
"It will be like China commemorating LA event".
If you are referring to hongkongers commemorating tiananmen, has nothing to do with them Hong Kongers, then why does CCP bother to claim back Hong Kong as part of China? Set Hong Kong free then if Tiananmen has nothing to do with Hong Kong.
As for the second article, I don't really know what was Yeltsin's actions in Russia to do with tiananmen square. Seems irrelevant.
I use to think the western media and politicians were using tiananmen as an foil and human rights issues something to slow down China's progress. I also use to think Tienanmen was overblown and Deng was justified in using military force to quell potential students' riots because Deng wanted to open up the chinese economy to international markets. That was in 1990s. Twenty years on, Chinese government had plenty of time to set the record straight if western media and politicians are spouting nonsense. If the facts are there, they are there . I am quite sure the Chinese media and government are well capable of setting record straight if truth is on their side.
Like many Chinese , I hoped that with open economy and prosperity, Chinese political culture can be more open minded and be able to face and confront the skeletons in the closet. 20 years on, if anything the political culture has become more pedagogical and repressive.
Let's say even if Tienanmen was a bluff by western media and politicians, the culture of censorship, imprisonment, threats and surveillance isn't helping the cause of the Chinese government. Let's say even tianenmen square was very hardly a massacre, maybe a hundred died because the students were smashing windows and burning the buildings in Beijing, the silence from Chinese government and media is certainly deafening. Seems like an event that the chinese government wishes to erase and hope that people will forget and move on. Like how the Japanese government and education department wish to erase and forget the the war crimes of world war 2.
Tiananmen is just one event. If they can't even come clean about Tienanmen , what less for parts of, to put it very mildly , less glorious history of communist party. I suppose they can't because it will weaken their legitimacy for being in power and authority.
@@MaxF28 We have too many armchair political scientists on RUclips. There is explicit evidence of the CIA and British Intelligence involvement within the Tiananmen Square protests. All 4 student leaders were whisked away in the dead of night to scholarships at Harvard, Yale, Oxford etc. One of them even won a Nobel Prize. Knowing this, you are still trying to justify a protest sponsored with the purpose to topple the Chinese government (regardless of your bias towards anything not 'democratic' ) which would send the whole Chinese nation back to the Warlord period . How many deaths and turmoil would this have caused. This is exxactly how ISIS was created. A CIA sponsored group which went on to completely destroy its neighboring countries. We've all seen what happens to nations which democratise by regime change. They usually have a military base on their country (South Korea and Japan). They have no say in their government policies unless they are approved by Washington. Do you also believe Gaddafi's Libya, from the richest nation in Africa was because of democracy? He was not ousted or killed by his people, he was ousted and killed for challenging the US in advocating for a united Africa, breaking away from the petrodollar. Do you also believe that the protests were legitimate? Libya is now a war torn nation struggling with the turmoil that ensued from the violent protests. Can the people eat democracy? Can they drink freedom? You people are either 1. Ideologues who think a life without 'freedom' is worse than death 2. Have a prejudice against China.
They should have Bush people in thie penal so we might learn more about why he did what he did.
We know what he did because we are not prevented from talking about it he is widely seen as a war criminal by many people in the west.
@@thatnorwegianguy1986 No no, I mean the papa Bush, he allowed it happen in his terms.
Since we got this four guys's point of view for like 30 years, they are not going to say anything they havent alerady said.
Im more interested in the knowledge why Bush allowed this.
thanks for doing this， please someone create a Chinese translation of this video so it can be shared with the Chinese mainland diaspora.
吾尔开席
Shaojiang, after all these years of exile with Doctor degree, was studying In Beijing university these English is ironic. My respect goes to Han Dongfang!
They need more acting class from CIA and mi5
Lol spoken like a true brainwashed victim.
@@aatmaDipoBhava hmmmm capitalism feeds on fools once you gain some brain cells then you realize that what you are talking about
@@froggyy lol judging so fast read my main comment outside. After reading my main manuscript, get a brain check and voila, if a single neuron is spotted then Congratulations, you are less naive than before.
@@froggyy What doesn't "feed on fools"? You can apply that to capitalism, communism,. socialism, etc. That's not an argument. Regardless of a government's ideology, as soon as you let them take control of your life they will do so.
Feel shame for nonsense blame
乌尔凯西英文可以
什么都不说，一帮脱口秀演员演的不错
Karl Dilkington 不爱听了？踩到你G点了？
like clown
贸易战美国啥牌都拿出来打
就台湾还Beacon呢？哪个Bea啊？是傻Bea的Bea吧？
I was in the Square, almost. I am a Taiwanese and long time US resident in my mid-30s at the time. This was a HUGE Western propaganda. Totally blown out of proportion. Suggest talk to student leaders, many already outside of China. Talk to the victims (students) or the residents of Beijing and other big Cities. This is another misinformation (BBC?).
Huh? You were "almost" at the protests? So you weren't there. And it's not even clear what the point of your comment is. You ask that they speak to the victims outside of China, which is precisely what they're doing here. I'm not sure what propaganda you speak of, but the fact that you even suggest that makes me suspicious of your Taiwanese heritage and US residence.
the speech sounds so familiar to me, it was the same mentality how Chinese communist started almost 90 years ago. socialism is the future of the democracy. i can't believe that the speech coming out these student leaders. you should go back and make the communist part to be better communist party because you two have the same vision and mentality.
May this great nation be free from her authoritarian master soon. There are good bits of Chinese culture which could contribute a better world.
Thank you Oxford Union for providing a platform for people to know more about this part of Chinese history.
吾爾開希英語一流! 幾乎全無中國囗音。用字衍辞好文雅。不失曾為中國學生領袖。
有才无德，知识越多越反动
@@lanpu6396 反動? 未必，反傳統，反盲從則甚有可能。