The TRUTH About Building and Owning a 3 Rotor 20B Mazda RX7
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- 3 Rotor RX7s are popular on the internet, but what does it actually take to swap one? We talk about how much it costs, what to look for, and the origins of the Mazda's legendary 20B triple rotor Wankel engine. The
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This comment section teaches us all that the people that know the most about 20B engines are the ones who have never touched, cannot afford, nor will ever own one. Lots of internet experts here. Let me remind me you, every single RX7 with a 20B in this video was built by us.
But but but. I read it on the forums. ;)
Hating Finding A Username 😂😂😂
Can you please DEBUNK this video
ruclips.net/video/m3pCLjHZmhM/видео.html
Rotors Magazine there's a guy in another videos comment section cursing at and telling everyone that he can find a complete 20b swap for 5k. This even though the cheapest 20b on eBay right now is 6300 including ECU and wiring harness only.
Rotors Magazine i live here in oz or Australia outside of japan Australia is one number in rotary engine been doing them since the early 80's many years before anyone else around the world even i have worked on them indeed they cost alot most of my mate here had or have one they spent more time at the workshop then driving them
This made me appreciate people with 20B engines even more. Respect to all the Rotary owners who ignore all the risks and seek enjoyment
The 20b is definitely NOT a performance engine, it was cobbled together for a failed luxury car...
@Chris Farley Both companies have a reputation for low cost, entry-level cars targeting first time buyers..
Nissan launched the Infiniti brand with limited success but remains viable in some markets.
Mazda's reputation is definitely on the low-end market and it's attempts at launching luxury brands such as Eunos, efini and Amati have all been failures.
youre a troll that has no appreciation of the superior rotary engine.
Hey everyone. I have a 20B 3rd gen RX7. I highly recommend if you are going to do the conversion that you push the
transmission back 3 inches and get custom drive shaft. This is because the subframe that people normally use does not allow the engine to be back far enough and the power steering rack needs to move too much. Basically, I had the subframe kit and the car felt disconnected. I spent an additional 3K to move tranny back and it made all the difference. The car felt like stock again and handled way better.
The cosmo gets better looking with age.
agreed
Brad Webster you guys down to help me snag mad miles rx7.3 cause that is the most gorgeous car ever conceived
I would love to see a video explaining the process/cost of importing these cosmos! I've been contemplating pulling the trigger on one for the longest time, but I don't know what to look for.
That is so funny you said that, i have loved rotors from day 1 but thought the Cosmo was ugly AF back in the day, i haven't seen 1 for a while and i actually like it.
I had a 76 Cosmo in about 1990, fully loaded, power everything 5spd white, red and blue trim work. I was young, had no money, so wished I had it now. My step dad had a early 70's Rx3, it was about as fast as his 65 hypo 289 Stang. I was really into rotaries in the mid 80's in the Silicon Valley. Ron if your reading this, it's John, Scott's friend, summer of 85, San Jose. At any rate, a Cosmo would be would be the Pinnacle for me, not an Rx4 or a Rx7. The only other would be an Rx3 SP. Not that that would be all that, it's just a cool old sports coupe from Japan. John from Noblesville.
When you slightly mis-stamp a "B" on a block you get an "E"
Great video but don't forget about us FC RX7 owners, the FD wasn't the only RX7 ever made :)
FORCED-INDUCTN only true RX7 ever made :)
Wouldn't that be the FB as it was the simplest and purest?
No, because the engineers couldnt get a watts link right on such a primitive suspension design.
I seen a fb featured on 1320 videos. The turbo bigger than the motor. Highly modified of course.
#freecody yeah you're swimming in subs lolol
Great vid. A lot of food for thought and a massive damper on my 20B plans haha. Will always be the dream. Keep up the good work, really enjoy the channel
Thank You for the video, very informative. I never thought a 20B would be so expensive to have a reliable and powerful car based around one. You are right, the internet make you believe they are grown on trees but that isn't the case at all, very involved and expensive. Even more so if you don't have an RX-7 already...
I've been a rotary guy for years but do to $$$ and a single parent now I own a 92 hatch civic so, like the vtech technology, just subscribed to the channel, keep it coming.
Been considering a 20b swap in my FD for quite some time since its my favorite rotary. Glad I found this video to better prepare myself, thank you!
so howd it go?
Your video showed me that these builds are true commitments. I love the sound of these engines. Thanks for the education. Beautiful car also.
i want a 20B when i finally get an RX-7 but i know its not easy to find plus expensive...this video broke down the cost and time needed to do the job right. Great video!
A long ,long time ago a friend of mine had a rotary truck after that ride I bought a 79 rx-7 got it running a then the rotary bug hit me! Previously I was into V-8. I have had 4 rx-7, one rx-8. Time to get another one! Great video, Thanks.
My dream car is a naturally aspirated 20b swapped fc3s. Since rotary territory is foreign to me aside from what I read in forums and see in videos, I already figured it would be pricey as hell to have a clean and reliable setup. Since this video cleared that up for me, I'll definitely put that idea off until later in life. In the meantime, I'll just stick with an sr20 swap. 😆
Very excited for the cosmo build!! Cant wait to see what you do!
Have an Evo myself but thinking of making that switch to rotary powa!!! Thanks for all the info and I will check out your shop online. 🙌
Thank you for this video very informative! All the answers I've been looking for
I have 2 20B converted FD cars and I can tell you it is really cool but truthfully you can make a 10 second 2 rotor on pump and water meth a whole lot cheaper. That being said, the sound of the 3 rotor is intoxicating and will last longer because you run less boost. The torque is also a huge plus. I suggest doweling and running a smaller turbo on the street. I run a BW efr 9180 on water meth and the car blows the tires out in 1-4 gears. I see 15 psi by 3000 rpm.
How about a video on how expensive/capable 13b builds can be? I know they have a lot of potential but people overlook them for the 20/26B.
20k! Wow...I'd do it if i had a fd sitting in my driveway w/20k in the glove box. Rotary's are pretty awesome though. I prefer piston engines, but being into all things mechanical, im definitely intrigued by the rotary. Theres a reason why ppl put them in small aircraft. They must not be too unreliable.
Thanks for putting this together. Good insight.
What is your opinion on the JC Cosmo?
They've always been one my of my favorites. I've been trying to inform myself as much as possible on these cars. I look forward to your videos on them.
Hi, I love your detailed stories!
I'm kinda that "other guy" Having a Mitsubishi evo x gsr, I went online ready to build. After purchasing my volk te37rt in magnesium blue, I spent another $11,500.00!! Dollars on a one of a kind (in USA) Elmer racing cnc forged 4b11t billet race block and prototype head plus a custom billet valve cover. Now that I have all the major parts... I now dont have enough build the darn thing!!!!
Thanks
Yeeeesss!
I've been looking forward to this build and can't wait to hear more about 20B's and etc. sick Cosmo pickup. looking forward to that as well! cheers!
PS. this vid was too short.
How do you know what letter code the engine is? I've found several 20B engine packages for sale through JDM importers, anywhere from $4500 to around $7000 depending on the importer. Also, I've found a 20B swap kit through a company called Defined Autoworks, $1670 if you don't want A/C, and $2070 if you want to keep A/C. All they require is a shortened lower intake manifold so the engine clears the FD hood, and they offer the modification for around $500.
Stupid question, but will the stock 13B-REW manual transmission bolt right up to a 20B? Or is there an adapter or any modification needed?
This is all still a dream for me right now, as I have yet to find an FD for sale near me for a reasonable price, but I'm just doing research anyway.
It's awesome u picked up a Cosmo! Can't wait for that series.
Swapping engines is more expensive then a lot of people realize. Just swapping a basically stock rebuilt 2zzge and C60 into a Celica GT cost me around 5500-6000 (the cost of the engine, trans, clutch, ect.) and that was doing all the work myself. And that is an engine Toyota designed to go in there.
Hi Kenny, Thank you, someone finally told the history of the 20b.
I get the the same question about is your car 2 or 3 rotor. I Should have my RX3 12a Bridgeport with 48Ida finished soon. I will try and send you some pictures or videos if I can workout how to do it. Thanks for the cool video.
Cheers from Queensland Australia.
Mark Thomas.
Great video man. Really helpful - thanks for sharing!
Thank you so much for speaking the honest reality of it.it is needed.
Just embarked on my 20b d-series built motor into my fd with tremec t56 magnum behind it... cannot wait but yes this vid is correct they are not cheap it will be around 50-60k with the car purchase excluding paint when finished... Great vid
Excellent discussion on the rarity and high costs of 20B engine installs in the RX-7. I also was unaware of the 20B A-E build numbers and early iteration problems. I will attend more of Kenny's lectures before I commit to a swap.
Nice vid, brings back many memories 👌
Looking forward to your Eunos build, I'm saving towards also securing one.
Thank you for this video.
In Germany the rotary-community itself is tiny, and 99% of it is "if you change the wheels, you're a monster and belong in jail".
So there's NO solid knowledge on 13b/20b-engines, swapping them or modifying them.
Only a lot of "I did it kinda-sorta" or "If you do XY it should...."
Great video wasn't expecting that 20k price tag
I really appreciated this video, I just bought my first rx7(FC) and always fantasized about 3 rotor swapping it. After seeing this I'm having second thoughts. Any idea how expensive it would be to swap the FD motor in my FC? Assuming we're not using stock twins and going single turbo
10gs
Damn only 5,000 20bs made lol. Makes them all that more special. I figured more like the 10k range of production numbers but damn was I wrong. Wonder how many are functioning.
Beautiful car! Btw what's the setup for your tail lights?
Are NA 20B's more or less expensive than a turbo 20B's? My dream engine would be a PP'd 20B; not saying I could afford it but would love to know more.
Awesome info. I knew it was expensive to do cuz i have a friend with a 20b fd and i asked him but now i know why its expensive.
Awesome video, a lil exaggerated on some pricing points but i can get behind that as its necessary to show people the extreme that they may end up in if they arnt cautious, also VERY!!!! VERY!! interested in a cosmo build jesus i been waiting to see this forever :D keep up the great work man.
It's not exaggerated. In fact, it's very much on the low end.
Awesome video! But I have one question.. What about an NA 20B engine? What would be the price to build an non turbo 20B?
Great, informative video. Looking forward for eunos cosmo 😊👍🏼
Well now i know what to look for and start saving, thanks
Great info and break down of cost.
Very good vid buddy
Why do you think the Eunos Cosmo never take off in tuned culture? It's a brilliant and beautiful car.. looking forward to the build.
Because it was expensive and rare?
How much of a 20B can you build with aftermarket parts? Or do you have to rely on factory Mazda oem to finish it ? I'm more familiar with chevy or mopar V8s and some of them contain no " chevy parts " but this can be very expensive engine build. Just wondering if as time goes by and more engines get push to the limit and go kaboom dose this mean that there becoming more rare and harder to maintain in a running condition?
I want a 3 rotor but N/A i have a 09 RX8. Any options? Possible to add another renesis to it?..
Can you make a video about the 4 rotary motor? And can you also make a video showing your shop? And can you guys build a 4 rotary engine? And if I'm you guys are up to it, can you make a video of N/A vs. Turbo rotary builds? I just saw your page and want to know as much as I can about the infamous Rotary motor.
How is the maintenance on the 20B? Is it more like the rx7 or rx8? Does anyone know where I can find this info. Thanks
How difficult are they to swap into the SA series 2?
Hey just had a quick question I am 6'3" and I'm looking to get a rx7 am i to tall to fit in a stock rx7
What about FCs and FBs, is it cheaper or is it more expensive to 20B swap them ?
Do you guys build rotary engines for light aircraft? So far the only company I know of doing them cost $20K-$30K depending on the hp you need.
Good information, thank you!
What about the legends of people stacking an extra rotor and swapping eccentric shaft what I mean is is there any way to essentially mechanically build your own with internal parts and do the electronic stuff on your own
Ok very descriptive video but my question is how much will it cost to get it rebuilt because you know what happens over time.
Very well done! Great info right here
just dropped a message in your gram!
One day I would love to put a 20B into my RX-8. Just give me a decade or two to save up lol
KillaRock404 I don't care for the RX8 but that's a freakin sweet idea man. That'll be maaad!
Do you really live in a 3rd world country? It is just the price of an average new car in the west but still expensive. :)
An average new car is going on a 3 or 4 year financing term, you're not typically going to finance a 30 thousand dollar project. It's already a bad idea financing a depreciating asset, it's an even worse idea to finance a depreciating project.
or you save up a couple of month and add an junkyard 5.3 with a turbo and just do it instead of sitting on a couch dreaming about $30K Rotary builds. To many people are dreaming about the exclusive and most exotic builds, instead they could go with what is cheap and available and go out there and have fun.
To me putting anything but a rotory in a RX is sacrilege. Yes swapping a 3 or 4 rotor into anything is going to be time consuming and expensive, but it's not about the money if you go that route. My dream is to have a 3 rotor RX-8, sure it will take time (I"m fairly young and I need to do a couple things before I can get just spend 30k freely like that), but it would be my ultimate car goal. From my research, LS swaps cost about 20k+ so why just go for it with the extra 10k? I know you can fit a turbo with a 3 rotor into an engine bay. Can you even fit a turbo if you LS swap it?
Is there a new Wandel part for building rotary?
Wanna know what transmission you use on this 20B, thanks!
E Series engines were never issued in the production of the mk1 and mk11 cosmo, there was a recall on the weaker engines and they were supplied with the E type 20b..
Hey. I have gotten myself deep into an RX8 swap. I had an FC motor built with New housings, Rotors, Seals at Mazmart here in GA. And i assumed wrongly that someone would have motor mounts available. Can you please give me some advise? Anybody you know could work out some mounts?
Just going to take a lot of custom work. REWs are easier and people make swap mounts for them because of where the mounts sit on them vs. a TII
You learn something new everyday
I'm just a young bloomer in the "RX-7 X 13B is life" but I have a question since I'm not sure. Is it wrong to put a 4G63 in a Eunos Cosmos?
Good video.
Although I'm just now getting into Mazda RX serries cars but I started out with Aircooled VW's.
There was an equivalent motor swap everyone thought was easy peasy but was expensive and difficult. It was the Porsche Type 901 F6. I would get the question every day "hey man why don't you put a 901 motor in it" to which I would reply cause I'm not stupid and made of money.
So the three rotor deal and the truth behind it all really is something I'm happy to know cause I don't want to be the "why don't you put a three rotor in it?" Guy
Original FD (95% stock) owner here. 'If' I were to do a 3 rotor swap (no way would I do it) I would make it NA. Hell, I'd even consider going old school with a carburetor. I don't want 700 hp, but I do want a reliable power plant without the complications and heat of a turbo. I'd be fine with ~300 wheel hp and the advantage of consistent throttle response you get with an NA engine. I like to drive the backroads and the track, not race on straightaways. The stock FD has plenty of power to get you between the turns on public roads. I had a 91 Miata before I traded it for the RX-7 and had a blast backroad bashing with that car! The original 12a and 13b RX-7s were much more simple back in the day! I'm not a big fan of all of this computerized crap. Simple EFI would be fine for me too. Nice video, btw. Thumbs up and subscribed.
Cannot wait for the cosmo build. Someday I will do a 20b, but na. Like you said it's the holy grail, and only a few drop the cash.
thanks a lot for this nice video !
I'm getting one...Great Video
wondering if you have the same headaches for the 13B...
Can you not make s 20b from housing and irons for a 13b with a custom e shaft?
No.
If a person was to look at purchasing an RX7, which model and year would it be, if money was not an issue ? I am asking for your opinion as you seem to truly know this vehicle well? And why?
I hate 20b swaps, because of that Mazda Cosmo has to go to crushing machine.
False...there are companies that make long blocks.
*But those would not be real 20b engines... they are after market replica engines.*
@@doktorbimmer there's nothing wrong with that
*There is nothing relevant about it either... the are several small shops that specialize in custom building replicas of obsolete or antique engines... because these engines like the Mazda 20b are both rare and no longer available.*
You do realize that a lot of 20Bs come from cars going to the scrapper anyways, and that, in some countries, you can also put a 3-rotor together yourself/have it put together, or extend a 13B.
Why does the orange FD on the dyno have “Rotors Performance Built Break in Tune 18psi -730whp”? I took that video at our 417rotary dyno day with Gaby Skern. I don’t remember meeting anyone from Rotors Performance and we couldn’t get the FD to make a full pull cause of fuel issues. Did they take this car to you guys later on and it eventually put down those numbers?
We weren't known as rotors performance at the time. The owner of the car is a co owner of rotors.
I’ve been out of the loop for a while. When I saw the clip I took of the orange FD on the dyno, it brought back memories of that club event, (it was a long ass day). Were one of you guys there? There were quite a few people that drove down from Kansas.
+Chris Richards I was not I wasn't in the picture until 2013.
Wow I didn't realise you're a pro with rotaries! Nice.
It will be cool to see some Cosmo videos. I spent far too much time as a teen watching Cosmo videos on 3rotor.com, back before youtube existed!
great video. it gets annoying when people always say that to me. "3 rotor swap it bro" -__-
theonlym12 hemi swap it lol
Nope, that is only for cheap fuckers or people who don't take care of their rotary engines.
Nope buddy, do it right and order some fancy 4 rotor from PPRE. It is 30 grand+ but muricans have no problems to indebt their sorry asses for decades for a new car, so it is not that bad. ;)
Red Phoenix be careful, if you’re not a big name PPRE with give you a half assed engine.
Blacksmith Lewis how about all of them 😏 just not at the same time on the road. By using different subframes 😏 that fit the same car
When people ask if my rx7 is a one rotor...
I hope you can understand that feel
-_-
Yep.
didnt the earlier ones come with 1 rotor also?
No.
Mortalomena roasty toasty
KWTC i think there have been a couple of bikes with 1 rotor engines
Does rhe shop you work through have any fds youd sell really wanna get into one of those dream cars of mine or if you could help me get my foot in some doors
roberto gomez if you have $17k we have a car
Great vid!
I tried getting a road legal fd with a 3rotor already swapped for ~40k$ as a 1st car lol. Couldnt get a loan. (I live in norway, and a gt86/brz costs more) (ended up with a supercharged is200)
Olav Nyheim there was fd with 3 rotor for 15k € in finland brand new and we dont have many rx7s in finland id say 20 total in street
good videos man
Why not swapping it to mazda cosmo stock engine? It's 20B right?
How much do you think it will cost to swap a 20b engine in a 2008 mazda3 sedan ???
For sale in Sydney Aus right now..
(Fresh built 20b bridge port turbo. Series C. Lapped, nitrided, stud and doweled, balanced rotating assembly, lightened rotors, have new Pac apex seals, billet drive shaft etc. 7.5k aud) that's $5,878 usd🤔
Straight talk. Thanks man
That orange fd was still there when I had my Speed dynoed lol
Cant wait for that build
Does it fit in 1983 rx7?????
Please let me know...
I remember i fell in love with the firsr gen rotary i got to drive. Always wanted to dive into the rotary world. Untill i looked a rebuild prices. I can rebuild my boosted crx for 300 bucks. Rotary seems like a rich man sport
It's actually quite common here in Canada to see 3 rotor RX7 lots of FCS
Love the way 20b and 26b sound but man they are expensive.. miss the rx7
Hey, hopefully you see this. I have a 2004 RX8 that I think needs way more power. I want to either swap in a 13BREW or NA 20B. I know about how much a 13BREW would cost to swap, but can you give me a rough estimate on how much a 20B swap would be? Would I be able to retain traction control and all the normal electronics? If I did all the parts minus the electronics would you guys be able to the electronics if I paid you? Really interested in doing one of these swaps. Thanks
Damion Bates get someone to build you a short crank 20b. It uses 13b parts, but you might need a billet centre iron from what I've been told. Start asking around rotary specialist.
Did you even watch the video? Jesus
Great video. Do one for the 26B? That's the one I'm really interested on.
I have no direct experience with a 4 rotor. But I have people in my contacts who are, perhaps!
I've heard that 26Bs can cost upwards to 100k just do do right. I think I read that somewhere on RX8Club or RX7Club
KillaRock404 I'll be honest...I think it's well worth it lol if you have the pocket change that is.
David, the guy we featured a few videos back, spent well over $100,000 on his 4 rotor FD.
I'm with you. The sound alone makes me want to do it lol
How do you know where to look for decent rotary engines? I'm not necessarily talking about 20b's I'm looking to put an rx7 13b into my rx8 cause the apex seals decided to shit themselves and I want more power anyway
Look on our channel for the video things to look for before buying an RX7.
Rotors Magazine would you recommend buying a full rx7 as a donor car and flip the leftovers or buy just what I need to get the swap done? Thanks for the quick reply
Does anyone know the name of the track playing in the background?
Nah dude still looking..
Does the sound has to be that aggressiv?
I’m pretty sure the late rx-7’s in Japan came stock with 20b’s.. after they discontinued in the US, they kept up production in Japan for a few more years and put 20b’s in those. They also kept the 13b but some came with 20b from factory. From my knowledge of course, I could always be wrong.
No rx-7 ever came with a 20b, even in Japan.
I would love to do an NA one as well and contemplated doing one. However, cost justified the means. I did not want to spend that kind of money for my RX7 daily/SCCA racer. I could purchase all the parts at cost through Mazda Motorsports then, but the housings and eccentric shaft would kill you? When Mazda ever makes a modern 3 rotor NA or turbo will drive down the costs. They need to build some new sports cars with the 300hp NA and 450hp turbo with the same weight class cars of the 80s/90s. Unfortunately, your next RX7 will be a hybrid like the NSX and 80k?