LET'S TALK TECH-706 HEADS ON A 6.0L
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2023
- GET THOSE PROJECTS DONE! SHOULD YOU RUN 706 HEADS ON YOUR 6.0L FOR MORE TORQUE? WHAT ABOUT THE CHANGE IN COMPRESSION AND DETONATION? WHAT IF I HAVE TO RETARD MY TIMING? DO I GET ANY GAIN?
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16 minutes in and I already love this.
Compression is 👑
Thanks again Richard! I feel like I always learn something new each time. I live vicariously through you, always wanted to test all the what ifs and old standbys on an engine dyno.
My pleasure!
Thanks Rich for all the testing and info. Your the dyno mad scientist. Praise 🙏🙏
THNX FOR WATCHING
Definitely in my plans now. I have 3 sets of 862's and 2 actually cc'd at the chambers with 61.5cc and the other set at 65cc's. I have flat tops sticking out at .010" so I will start with the bigger chamber heads and have em resurfaced and valve job. But I will be doing the porting and have em flowed.
Yes Richard I believe it can AND will IF, you do the necessary things to go along with the head change ,running a cooler thermostat( 180deg)
a better radiator to control not only the engine but transmission as well, also a heat range cooler spark plug, along with proper cleaning g and polishing the head and piston tops
Great discussion, Richard.
Thank you for confirming my plan to unshroud the valves on the 706. I think it will improve flow and keep the compression ratio down to allow me to not have to run premium gas.
Richard, through you discussing this topic so much, I refreshed my 400,000 mile lq4. It had a lifter causing excess KR. I put a Truck Norris in, TBSS intake, and 862 heads. So far I've noticed a substantial difference. The stock lq4 leaves a lot to be desired down low. These nicely add some 2000-3000 rpm towing power for my 2004 2500HD. Less downshifting while towing my cars to the track. I appreciate the dyno time and talk on this subject!
Thanks for sharing
I was the one talking about compression. Running a 5.3 (short rod) in a 4.8 will put piston .125” or so in the hole. I’m told that this is so far in the hole there is no real “quench effect” so no detonation issues. On the MS3 ECU you basically run the car in a known knock free environment to get the “normal” amount of noise. Then you set this as the base. Any additional noise is then easily seen. Knock is usually a giant peak and easily seen in my experience. Very similar to the old AEM software.
I have a 6 litre with 317 heads and I did put a stage 1 cam in it for day to day driving , I found it makes great power for towing and pulling with out having to worry about detonation and over heating I also reprogrammed for torque management as I have a drive by wire throttle body ,I found by pulling out 60% of torque management really wakes up the engine with out killing it.
I flood my brain with this stuff when im doing chores and what not. Something always sticks in my brain.
I didn't want as much compression as 706 heads on my LQ4, so I went with 241 heads. Same smaller port size as the 706, but the combustion chamber is just a little bigger than 799s and it has 2" intake valves. 10.1:1 so I have some forgiveness when I use my truck like a truck. I do run 91/93 of course.
I have a L33 that I put 706s on because one of the 799s was busted in a wreck. The engine has a 2000 ls1 cam and a stock tune. It pulls hills still in OD where the old 5.3 would downshift. Running 87 octane under load it will detonate sometimes but that is also me being cheap lol.
My dad and I are going to do a Truck Norris cam and 799 heads on his LQ4. And im we're going to get my 706s ported for my L59 5.3 Along with a cam, headers and intake. Thank you Richard, we watch and learn A LOT!!!
Have the same setup with 706’s ported
How did it sound? Just got my truck Norris in
@@scottbarrera6860 Actually i have a LS2 and a Trailblazer SS lol. So my 6.0 LS 2 sounds great with that same BTR Truck Norris cam.
I have a 6.0 sloppy stage. 2 with 317 heads looking into 706s now. Watch ur videos all the time. Going to build my 05 esv Escalade to win tx2k25
Like learning the differences
I ran a Lq4 with stock 706 for a couple years. With ss2 cam. 100 shot went 6.9’s. Loved the setup.
So do the 706s bolt right up? No extra machining necessary?
@@TheYamaha36 correct
I almost went with a 706 head on my 6.2 but I didn’t want to mess with shrouding , so I bought some 799 heads tbbs intake, 205/210 .550 .525 115 LSA cam. This in my 2006 Silverado 2500 with 4.10 gears. Yes I tow a trailer a lot.
I have a simiset up, but stock lq4 with iron heads. Do you have issues with detonation/pinging towing heavy? I was really thinking about 706s but hearing guys towing issues has me rethinking. Also are you only running 93 octane?
I run lq4 in my 04 GTO have 706 heads the heads was resurface and a valve job was done cam is a scogging dickey ls6 power max plus 220/222 .570 lift 112lsa
862, milled ported. 202 valves. Un shroud the intake. Polished combustion chamber. On a flat top 5.3 with btr stage 2 truck. Probably changing the cam up. . Tbss intake. No fire up yet.
2.02?
I recently found out about the castech heads and of course that's what I have. Has anyone welded the cracks or the areas prone to cracking before hand? I think I'm going to run them and if they crack I will weld them up and see if they hold and for how long. It would be nice to have a simple solution instead of "get another set".
I built an LQ4 for towing in my 3/4 ton a few years ago. 706 heads, Vinci 210/218 .551 cam, LT's. Unloaded it was awesome. Towing was a different story. I had to reduce timing drastically to get it to not ping. Even with good gas and some octane boost, on hot days, towing 8000lbs 5ht wheel it would ping. So I got a bit milled off the 317s and put them back on. No more worries. Less snap driving around empty for sure, but that's not really why I had a 3/4 ton truck.
Classic case of build engine for needs , not wants. GM now has 6.8 to jump gap frm diesel for your app. It's a response to need Ford covered with 7.3 Godzilla in 2020 ,F250-up. It's basically a large bore spacing LS-LT clone.
@peter daughtrey it's actually a 6.6 liter. Same as the duramax kinda confusing. I just priced 1 yesterday. 401 hp and 464 lb ft
What afr were you commanding when it’d ping?
@@coleknight7529 It was a few years ago so I don't recall exactly, but tried a range from stoich to very rich. Didn't really make much difference. I could get it to stop by pulling a bunch of timing out but that brings other issues and defeats the purpose. Unloaded it was fine. Just when towing it was an issue. Especially pushing wind, which we ALWAYS do around here.
Yep and this year that 6.6 gas engine will be mated to the 8 speed Allison 😉
To test predation you would have to hold operating temp and be able to apply load. Is that correct? I realize air temp and fuel temp will dramatically increase dation.
My build is a 5.3 .030 over current motor has 706 heads so I bought a core with 706 heads. If for no other reason to build a back up to swap out if it ever came to needing it. Tbss intake, bigger throttle body, truck Norris cam, with a beefed up valve train. May be a cheap twin turbo, ebay. I want all my power below 5k rpm.daily driver, towing truck, occasional stop light fun.should I do anything to them?
I'm thinking for my LQ4 706 heads trail blazer intake manifold BTR cam LS7 style lifters long tube Hooker headers X pipe behind a NV4500 5 speed transmission in 05 2500HD single cab short bed with a utility bed. Or stock heads ARP head bolts just rods and piston and a turbo. 🤔
Just boost it and be happy! I don’t like head aches !
Richard, how would an L76 6.0 with stock dished pistons, very low duration torque cam, 862’s (possibly ported) with a Tbss intake and 92mm throttle body work with a very small set of twin turbos?
I’m looking to replicate the operating range but far exceed power levels of the gen 6 454 this will replace. The truck is a 3500 and will be a tow/ snowplowing rig.
Richard I will let you run all the numbers you want once I put this combo in my mud truck on 44 boggers in upland California!!! This has been my desired combo for years since I talked to you about it
What needs to be done to the 706 heads to run them on the lq4 and what type of head gasket are running ?
My understanding is direct replacement… an it’ll run… now I’d probably still get a adjustment on tune but you should be able to run an drive right of the bay
I am running a LQ4 short block, 706 heads, and a 210/216 114+4 .553/.553 camshaft in a 2006 Silverado 1500 crew cab 2wd. I am happy with it. I only lost one half MPG.
It definitely has more torque but, I am not blown away compared to the LM7 I took out.
That's because the LM7 has about the same or slightly more torque at around 2k then your split duration 114 lsa cam. Try something like a 204/204 110lsa.
That is really close to what I have figured out I need for the 1200-3500 rpm range I stay in most of the time. Thanks
the lm7 won't have torque anywhere near the 6.0l (no matter the cam)
Either something is wrong or your tune is garbage if you aren't blown away compared to the 5.3. You should have nearly 200hp/200tq over what you started with.
Well, there goes the price of 706 heads. 😛
Feeling flush, I would buy a set of TEA or equivalent stage 1 706 heads, cut for use with the 6.0 and call it good. With a stage 1 cam I doubt it would lose much on top, if any at all?
Wonder how the 799 heads would do on the LY6 vs the 823 rec ports. That was my plan to try to make a little extra torque. Sounds like it won’t be worth it maybe. My goal was never power high up. Using the suburban for towing with a 6l80. Intended to use the 799 milled slightly with a BTR stage 1 truck cam and headers (only because I already have them).
I have tested that-please see that video-the ly6 heads make more than 799 about 4000 rpm
I ran both 706s and 243s on a lq9 . Both are good for a daily or pulling in a truck 706 . 243 had a lot more top-end ran both with same cam summit ls pro 550 lift 3400 stall and 373 gears
it was a measured 12 hp on top
@@richardholdener1727 yeah but u could definitely feel the difference and see it in mph .
THE 706 HEADS MADE MORE TORQUE UP TO 5000 RPM, SO THEY WOULD ACTUALLY FEEL BETTER
My combo is a .040 over lq9 with mild ported 706 heads. .036 quench clearance. Works out to 12.1:1 I run 24° total timing. Premium 91 pump gas. In an 02 2500hd 4x4 and I get some light crackling at 1500rpm when torque converter locks up at 45mph.
12.1:1 seems high for that combo
@@richardholdener1727 I know. I ran the numbers repeatedly on Wallace racing. I measured piston out of hole .006 with .041 head gasket. 4.040 bore and 3.622 stroke. 61cc 706 head
Very interested in your combo.
How does it tow?
What kind of mpg are you seeing?
And do you know what it putting to the ground?
@@coleknight7529 706 heads pocket ported. .040 over flat toos lq4 block .pistons measure. 006 ish out of the hole. .042 felpro head gaskets. 12.1:1 compression. The cam is ELGIN 1250p similar to the GM hot cam. It tows fantastic. In an 02 2500hd 4x4 single cab. Gas milage? 10ish around town. Highway idk
I have LQ4 with 706s and 8719 Summit torque cam. 1500 HD 4x4. When I was tuning I data logged in HP tuners watching for detonation because I had some 87 in the tank. Very little if any detonation detected at all. As such I run 87 gas when I run empty. When I tow my rv I switch to 91. I see no issues with detonation in my combination.
good plan-I do the same
Lq4 bottom end, 706 heads, TBSS intake, 92mm tb, btr red hot cam. 11.37:1 SCR & 8.99 DCR, 93 pump gas. Tremec 4050 transmission in a 4x4 1500 driver, no towing.
Should make good torque, hoping it doesn’t ping 🤞🏻
Any updates
I have having my 243 heads ported. The guys doing the porting said 1 point of compression is worth 10hp. Of course everything else the same.
1 point is not always worth 10 hp-3-4% of existing power is a good estimate
Richard, I know this is an old video but I hope this still gets to you. What camshaft duration would you say is the limit of the 706 heads on a stock LQ4? Obviously, the more duration the higher the operating rpm. I’m considering a 224/23x .604/.604 cam and it seems like it would land right in the sweet spot but might be tickling the limit of the 706 heads rpm range.
the 706 heads don't have any rpm limit
Hello Richard!! This video is great timing!! 29* to be exact. Lol kidding. I just delivered my 862’s to a machine shop in Lincoln Ne. Spanelengines. I showed there and it’s a legit place. I seen some of the shop and his finished work on other heads. First is pressure tested and cleaned 🧼 up. They had that black sticky crap in the intakes,Getting.020 decked, these will go on a LQ4 ,my 04 crew-cab you answered my question about the 317heads about the bigger flow numbers but different chambers shapes. But. Decking the 317’s to a 62cc chamber size wouldn’t be a better option than a 862 or 706. Or is the entire intake and exhaust that different and not better than the 706. What was gm thinking toward flow if the 317 had more volume than 706 ?? Can’t wait for warmer weather.
Thanks Richard.
317 flows more but makes less
Lq4 , trying to get reliable 550hp. What combo?
I was wondering, do you need less exhaust duration on a cam for cylinder heads with bigger exhaust valves? Would a cam like btr's hot rod or red hot cam be nullified a bit by the bigger valves considering how much exhaust duration they have?
the cam will behave the same way with both valve sizes
Gen3 LQ4 with the factory iron heads (going to ditch them) planning on running a s480 single turbo setup I have good ready to go 706s or a set of aluminum 317s looking to make mid 700hp both sets of heads are stock with stock valves from what I gather the 317s are the go to for this build?
317...especially for pump gas
706 head will give you over 11.1 compression. If you bore the 6.0 30-40 over its even more like 12.1. If you dont have 93 or dont wanna run 93 octane dont do it.
? Richard i have an lq4 6.0 like to put the truck Norris cam in then down the road put 706 heads on it will i have enough valve clearance. stock bottom end stock manifolds. looking for more bottom end torque and better economy not expecting 500 hp or anything just a good tow/daily driver .you opinions are welcome. ty. love the channel.
yes, the TN cam will fit that
I need the ultimate truck engine build for daily driving.... Keep the stock ham do 706 heads new valve springs valves and pushrods with trailblazer SS intake just that alone. What do you think you would net? On a stock lq4 with converters stock intake. Gutted box and it has a flowmaster and the cats are aftermarket but they're the cheap one so once they clog I'm just going to probably do long tubes
My dad always hated headers even on back in the day small blocks. He ran manifolds to a y-pipe no cat into a muffler or x-pipe. That's what I'm saying. If you just literally run y-pipe from a 88 to '94 somehow bolted it up to the manifolds. Now you have no caps, just a regular y-pipe going into a muffler
Well, he always said headers leak... Rather have clean manifolds and lose a little bit of power gain it elsewhere
run a Low Buck Truck cam and springs in it
In all honesty in Canada without E-85 and you’re towing more than a few weekends a year with the family for vacation or whatever, you need a diesel.
An l96 is a flex fuel ly6. 50# injectors.
Interested if 706s on an l33 with summit 8707 cam would be better then using the factory 799s
I’d have to think no.
799s are pretty good.
I think you’d just be moving your torque curve down a smidge.
I had an 05 sierra w the L33 and loved it.
Heard some people were getting crazy mpg’s like 25hwy from comp cams 216/220 and an exhaust
Plus it put more to the ground what factory made at flywheel
I'm bulding .40 over 5.3 flat top 2 valve relief running a turbo sloppy 2 cam. Putting a 2" valve in help or hurt in a 706 head on this combo?
it can help if the valve job and transition are done correctly
LQ4 6.0 punched 0.020 over with sished pistons
706 heads with bigger valves polished, truck Norris NSR and a truck intake. Does this sound like a decent combination?
yes
I have a lq9 on the stand. Stock bore, factory bottom end with all new bearings, mahle rings, btr truck stage 2 v2, 706 heads, nnbs intake. What else would I need?
to do what?
So I’m building a 6.0 with 706 heads truck Norris cam and TBSS intake manifold for daily driver silver 1500 regular cab? Any advice on this combo?
tune will be required along with injectors and pump
Heard a guy say he had the truck Norris camshaft doctored and it said it was 216/227 109 LSA. Whether that’s fact or not, IDK.
its not
No replacement for displacement… best torque maker is a new crankshaft
Richard, my build is a stock lq4, btr trk st2, 706, flex fuel inj 36# at 58psi, trk intake and exh manifolds. Na. Have a tune done by mailordertune and run 87oct. Im getting a dyno tune done in a couple weeks. Is 87 a good idea? Should i jump to 91? Thanks for all u do!
Ment 93 Oct not 91
it can make more power on 93 than 87
Hey Richard I have a Lq9 with a sloppy stage 2 cam 799 heads with pac 218 spring upgrade trail blazer SS intake and 90 mm throttle body with a terminator x max computer. I have twin 3582 turbos. My questions is is that a good combo for some daily driving and around what could the horsepower be and should I put the 317 heads back on or would the 799 heads be ok? And looking to boost around 8 to maybe 10 psi.
either heads will work
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you!
Hey Rich, I have a refreshed .30 over flat top forged piston 6.0 and some Wilkes Performance CNC’ed 62cc 706 heads that flowed 303 cfm @.600 & 305 cfm @.650. I plan on daily driving with a little street racing now and then. What would be the ideal cam for this setup? I also plan on using 91 octane for dd and e85 for street racing if possible. Thanks in advance!
what converter or trans, what intake
Heads were also milled .005
Can we see the timing map so we can get a better idea on how much timing is good for a 6.0 with 706 heads 91 octane
I ran 29 total on pump gas-but you won't be able to do that in the vehicle
I have an LQ9 on the stand now. I also have 706 heads, 243 heads and the stock 317 heads. In addition to those parts I have an LS7 camshaft. I'm not in love with the 120 LSA of the cam but the lift with 1.8 rockers is decent and would give a nice bump up high. Would running the 706 heads help compensate for the torque loss down low from the cam. Is it worth it to port the 706s. I'm concerned about the static compression of the LQ9/706 combo vs todays crappy fuel. I can buy a different cam but this one is lying around so it would be nice to use it. Engine is going in a 65 C10 with a 5 speed, 2.95 first gear with 3.73 rear, just dont want it to be a complete dog off the line. Thanks Richard for any insight, Paul.
better cam, yes on porting, either 799or 706
Other questions for you. Do you think is a good combination. For my camaro lq9 6.0. Set of 862 and cam i run is comp cam 54-454-11. Thank in advance. 😊
WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THE MOTOR? STEET, RACE, STOCK CONVERTER ETC...
@@richardholdener1727 Street. 3000rpm converter
yes
What recipe would be good to use with 317 heads like if I build a 408 from my 6.0 would a ported 317 work good or would a 243 or ported 706 be better
FOR A 408, PORTED 243s CAN MAKE THE MOST POWER. The question is how much power are you looking to make. Any properly ported stock heads can support over 600 na hp
Richard, What is the site you keep mentioning, "Wahl racing"? Please and thank you
Wallace Racing
I'm doing this with a btr stage 2 cam with the 706 heads what octane fuel should I run 91 ?
NA?
We talk a lot about e85 vs like 91 octane. I'd bet the vast majority of people modifying or swapping LS engines are not running e85. It would be interesting to see a poll on that. Richard mentioned twice about situations of running 91 octane he would just run 317 heads. So does that mean most of us should be running 317 heads?
BTR NSR STAGE 2?
I have a lq4 with 706 heads btr stage 2 v2 cam what gas should i use
PUMP GAS
So, essentially you are telling me I'm a fool to stay with the 317 heads I have in my LQ4? I have 706 heads in the 5.3 I'm swapping out. Will the higher compression require higher octane fuel to reduce knock?
no one is a fool-the 706 heads just make more power. they are a good upgrade on an lq4
So can I put a stock 706 head on a lq9 with 8708r1 camshaft
YOU WILL HAVE TO CHECK P-V
706 heads with 2.00 valves on a lq4 6.0 with flat pistons be good idea ?
good idea
sorry forgot to say it has 317 heads now in a 2004 gm 2500hd
I have a lq9 with 862 heads, 222/234 115 cam and 3000 stall. Is this a decent NA street combo? What kind of numbers would you expect?
yes-look at mid-high 400 hp
@@richardholdener1727 thanks! Thank you for making all this great content!
Rich whats your thoughts on a Lq9 with 821 heads and a a BTR stage 1 cam, for 2500hd ?
NOIDEA WHAT YOU MEAN BY THOUGHTS
I had a Ls6 cam in it and bottom was terrible, pulled like crazy past 4k, I'm hoping the BTR stage 1 is going help on the bottom end.
I have a 2006 Hummer H2 with a 6.0 Lq4 That is a daily driver. What would you recommend for a head and cam combination to get 500 + hp and keep everything as stock as possible. I want 500+ hp but a tight budget. I want to keep stock torque converter and fuel injectors. I was thinking a sloppy stage 2 cam and 862 heads. Please let me know best combination to keep budget low and get 500 to 525 hp. Thank you very much your channel is awesome!
Please inform me on any components I would need to buy to go along with a proper combination like high volume oil pump or a double timing chain and gear. I would like to tear it down and build it one time with the proper combination of everything all together to make a complete motor. I plan on doing ARP bolts and studs on everything in the motor so far.
I am not sure about head springs either
Plays info on lifters,pistons and crankshaft also please.
Also need to know if rings need to be gapped. I can do the work just don't know anything about proper combinations trying to keep what I can factory for 500-525 hp thanks
GET A TRUCK NORRIS CAM AND 706 HEADS WITH THE SPRINGS FOR THE CAM FROM BTR
LQ9 SS2 CAM 862 HEADS : estimated CR and what fuel do you recommend please??? Rock buggy is the application NA
go to wallace racing compression calculator on line
Almighty Wally says 10.7: 1 61cc head, 4.030 bore 3.622 stroke .051 head gasket with 4.1 bore unless I missed something I get 10.7:1@@richardholdener1727
I’ve got a LQ4 408 stroker with 706 heads and a stage 4 cam. What are your thoughts about a LSA supercharger getting put on that combo
I would pick a different set of heads for a 408
My machinist told me 706 heads are junk and crack more thank any other casting🤔 what do you think Richard?
that has not been my experience, but I would run them even if cracked
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the reply, care to elaborate though? Are you saying you can just run cracked heads and it’s fine? I was told where they crack they leak coolant in to the oil system? All of it sounds like a no go for me especially on a boosted application
I believe it’s the casteck heads he’s referring to. It’s a battery lookin stamp by the rockers.
Richard, can you help me out? I have a LQ4 with 706 heads and a truck norris camshaft. I want to install a S480 turbo. I am concerned about detonation on pump gas. I only have access to 87, 91, and 93 octane. Would 799 or 317 heads be a better option to avoid detonation on 91 or 93 pump gas? Thanks
I forgot to mention, I am looking for max power/performance below 5700RPM
I might pick the 317 heads for pump gas
Doing aLS swap 1993 Obs truck LQ4 with 706 heads long tube headers truck Norris cam
good combo
Do you have a video of a max effort 6.2 ls na combo?
I'm pretty sure he does, he did 400hp, 500hp, 600hp, etc recipe videos in 2020 during the pandemic
@@bluecollarhotrods9781 thanks!
only HCI on the 6.2L na
What about a 5.3 bored to 6.0 ?
check thickness of cylinder walls
What about 4.8!an 706
they come that way
Answer... More stroke.. I want the best,but only want to spend a buck...