Hello Garret, I unfortunately joined late for the last session and I heard someone talking about the Vetterli Rifle. Below I have list of the majority of the adopted military arms from the foreign countries so that you can compare them to the U.S. trapdoor. I will say some of them are a bit better than the trapdoor, while others are much more problematic. I will link the website, general information, catridge muzzle velocity, caliber, and rarity for each of the below mentioned military arms. 1. Imperial Russia: Model of 1857/69 Krnka Rifle (Пехотная Винтовка Крнка́ 1869)(Conversion rifle) Catridge: 15.24 x 41mm, or .6 caliber Russian liniya Muzzle Velocity: 350 meters / sec or 1150ft / sec(quite slow) Video Showcasing one: ruclips.net/video/vj3fmq0kq10/видео.html&ab_channel=%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%87%D1%83%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%B9%D0%9E%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5GUNSROOM Rarity: Very Rare in the United States History: ruclips.net/video/dDfy5xmG2RM/видео.html&ab_channel=MosinMuseum Model of 1856/69 Albini Baranov (For the Russian Navy) орострельная винтовка системы лейтенанта Баранова Cartridge: Same cartridge as the krnka Muzzle Velocity: Same velocity as the Krnka Rarity: Extremely Rare (only about 10k ever made), most of them destroyed History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/baranov Karle Needle Rifle Cartridge: A paper cartridge, unknown details Muzzle Velocity: I would infer that it is the same chassepot History: en.topwar.ru/178711-i-zhille-i-terri-i-karle.html Video: ruclips.net/video/BNsw25xJeSo/видео.html&ab_channel=PoppaSquat Rarity: Extremely Rare (215 ever made) Berdan l and Berdan ll (Pekhotniya vintovka Berdana obr. 1870g or 1868g) Cartridge: 42 Russian, or 10.75 x 58 mm paper patched bullet loaded with 77 grains of black powder Muzzle velocity: 1444 ft / sec (better than the trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan2 www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan1 Rarity: rare for the Berdan ll and extremely rare for the Berdan l 2. French Empire Chassepot Needle Rifle of 1866 Cartridge: 11mm paper cartridge loaded with a 386 grain heavy lead bullet Muzzle Velocity: 435 meters / sec History: ruclips.net/video/-QtrHC4L_8A/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons Rarity: Quite common 1854/69 Tabatiere System (Conversion) Cartridge: 17.8 mm x 35 R Muzzle Velocity: around 950 feet / sec (quite slow) History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/tabatierenew Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/FYUa4WPtMnE/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West Rarity: Rare Gras Rifle Model 1874 Catridge: (11mm x 59 R) Muzzle Velocity: 1450 ft / sec (Better than the trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/gras Rarity: Very Common Lebel 1886 (Smokeless) Cartridge: 8mm Lebel Muzzle Velocity: 2400 ft / sec Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds fully loaded Rarity: Very Common 3. German Empire Lindner Podewell Conversion Rifle (Bavarians) (Single Shot) Cartridge: (13.9 mm or .54 caliber) Muzzle Velocity: Unknown, I will assume that it is around 1250 ft / sec Rarity: Very Rare Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/rJ2ye522LPc/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West Bavarian Model 1869 Werder Rifle (Single shot) Catridge: 11mm x 50 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1465 feet / sec (Better than trapdoor) Rarity: Very Rare History: www.militaryrifles.com/bavaria/werder Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/CLWgPNFD4ck/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange German Mauser 1871 Rifle Cartridge: 11mm x 60 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Still a tiny bit better than trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/germany/mauser1871 Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/VX_I9BzxhQg/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Rarity: Quite Common German Mauser 71/84 Repeating Rifle (8 shots tubular magazine) Catridge: Same as before Muzzle Velocity: Same as before Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/3sMKLpoJ0i4/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Rarity: Common 4. Serbia Mauser Model of 1880 (Single Shot) or Mauser Koka Milavanovic Cartridge: Chambered for a 10.15 Caliber Cartridge Muzzle Velocity: 1680 feet / sec (Much better than trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/mausermilovanovic Rarity: Very Rare 5. Kingdom Of Italy Italian Single Shot Vetterli Modello 1870 ((Fucile da Fanteria mod.1870 Vetterli)) Rarity: Extremely Rare Cartridge: 10.4 mm Vetterli Cartridge, 11mm longer than the swiss vetterli cartridge Muzzle Velocity: Around 1400 ft / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/italy/vetterli Italian Carcano Needle Rifle (Conversion) Model of 1867 Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: Used a 17.4mm Paper Cartridge Muzzle Velocity: I will assume quite slow, I didn’t find good info on this History: ruclips.net/video/WeRhZ39pZKU/видео.html&ab_channel=sbamshooting Italian Vetterli Vitali Model 1870/87 Rarity: Common Cartridge: Used a same cartridge as the single shot, later in late 1880s, updated to a smokeless cartridge Ballistic Information: ruclips.net/video/_28pjG62aTo/видео.html&ab_channel=TheKoba49 Muzzle Velocity: I will assume around 2000 ft / sec after the smokeless update History: ruclips.net/video/8PIBzye7to8/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Italian Navy (Vetterli - Ferracciu) Model 1890 (Repeater) Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: 10.35 mm x 47 R (Smokeless Cartridge) History: ruclips.net/video/CO_5-xyX7P8/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons Muzzle Velocity: Shade above 2000 ft / sec 6. Norwegian Norwegian Jarmann Model 1884 Rifle (Tubeloading Repeater Rifle) Rarity: Extremely Rare Cartridge: Small bore 10.15 mm Muzzle Velocity: Around 1500 ft / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/jarmann 8. Empire of Greater Japan Murata Rifle Type 13 and Type 18(Model 1880 and 1885 村田銃) (Single Shot) Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: 11mm x 60 Japanese Murata (First produced domestic cartridge by Japan) Muzzle Velocity: Around 1430 ft / sec History: ruclips.net/video/zaFxutdq_mI/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons Murata Rifle Type 22 (Model 1889) 明治 二十 二 年 村田 運弾 銃Semi Smokeless Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: Used a domestic Cartridge 8mm x 53 R (tubeloader) Muzzle Velocity: 1850 feet / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/japan/murata22 9. Great Britain (Of course I don’t have to list this one) 10. Austrian Hungarian Empire Model 1867 Wanzl Conversion Rifle Rarity: Rare Cartridge: a 14mm x 33 Rimfire Muzzle Velocity: 1290 feet / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/austria/wanzl Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/DZv1BB0kWP8/видео.html&ab_channel=capandball Model 1869 Werndl Holub Rifle (Single Shot Rifle) Rarity: Common Cartridge: Fired 62 grain charge of black powder and a 314 grain paper patched bullet which has a caliber of 11.25 x 42 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Better than the trapdoor) History: ruclips.net/video/rRUW5eUZ5cM/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/qsxOStNi5RA/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal 11. Belgium Albini Braendlin Rifle (Conversion) Model 1777/69 1853/69 Rarity: Rare Cartridge: Fire an 11 mm, loaded with 77 grain of black powder. Caliber is 11mm x 50 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m1873albinibraendlin Belgian Terssen Rifle (Conversion) Rarity: Very Rare Catridge: Same as the albini braendlin Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m184868terssen Comblain Model 1870 (Single Shot Rifle) Rarity: Rare Catridge: Same as the Albini Braendlin Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet / sec History: ruclips.net/video/pPLiTJuC1rE/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/sWI9J5zEcyI/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal 12. Dutch / Netherlands Dutch Beaumont Single Shot Model 1871 Rarity: Very Rare Catridge: Fired a 336 grain paper patched bullet backed up with 5 grams of black powder. It is a 11x51R caliber round. Muzzle Velocity: 1380 feet / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont71 Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/S1qp6go2eDI/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West Dutch Beaumont Vitali (4 shots repeater) Model 1871/88 Rarity: Common Catridge: Fired a similar cartridge as the single shot beaumont and uses a 4 shots magazine with a cutoff. Muzzle Velocity: See above (Beaumont 1871) History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont7188 Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/I9NB3r0W0fs/видео.html&ab_channel=PaperCartridges 14. Switzerland Swiss Milbank Amsler Conversion Rifle Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: Fired a stubby cartridge with a caliber of 18mm x 25 R or a .41 swiss depending on which guns converted. Muzzle Velocity: potentially really slow or fast depending on which caliber History: ruclips.net/video/lOrLi2I4w5A/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange Swiss Vetterli Rifle Rarity: Common Catridge: .41 swiss (Doesn’t use the italian cartridge) it is also a intermediate cartridge Muzzle Velocity: 1400 ft / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/swissvetterli Thanks for reading, I hope you can compare these with the contemporary trapdoor. I will say that the later ones are much better than the trapdoors, like the jarmann.
I've never figured out how these guys make any money off of a gun at a gun show that they mark up so high in price and they sit on it literally for 5 years like you say. I thought I was the only one who ever saw that. They won't take a penny less, but they'll load them in the trailer every friggin' Sunday, weekend after weekend for years not selling it.
Garrett, I'm sorry I missed the show. I watched most of it this morning. I am an hour ahead so, my old body needs to sleep. I should be retired by now, but we all know why some of us old farts still have to work. I will try to catch the next live stream. I always enjoy the talk.
I’m from Granbury Texas and Bond arms was showcasing a 2 shot derringer in 9MM I told em give me that same derringer chambered in 44Mag/44 special and I would buy We will see where that goes 😂
Hello Garret, I unfortunately joined late for the last session and I heard someone talking about the Vetterli Rifle. Below I have list of the majority of the adopted military arms from the foreign countries so that you can compare them to the U.S. trapdoor. I will say some of them are a bit better than the trapdoor, while others are much more problematic. I will link the website, general information, catridge muzzle velocity, caliber, and rarity for each of the below mentioned military arms. 1. Imperial Russia: Model of 1857/69 Krnka Rifle (Пехотная Винтовка Крнка́ 1869)(Conversion rifle) Catridge: 15.24 x 41mm, or .6 caliber Russian liniya Muzzle Velocity: 350 meters / sec or 1150ft / sec(quite slow) Video Showcasing one: ruclips.net/video/vj3fmq0kq10/видео.html&ab_channel=%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%87%D1%83%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%B9%D0%9E%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5GUNSROOM Rarity: Very Rare in the United States History: ruclips.net/video/dDfy5xmG2RM/видео.html&ab_channel=MosinMuseum Model of 1856/69 Albini Baranov (For the Russian Navy) орострельная винтовка системы лейтенанта Баранова Cartridge: Same cartridge as the krnka Muzzle Velocity: Same velocity as the Krnka Rarity: Extremely Rare (only about 10k ever made), most of them destroyed History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/baranov Karle Needle Rifle Cartridge: A paper cartridge, unknown details Muzzle Velocity: I would infer that it is the same chassepot History: en.topwar.ru/178711-i-zhille-i-terri-i-karle.html Video: ruclips.net/video/BNsw25xJeSo/видео.html&ab_channel=PoppaSquat Rarity: Extremely Rare (215 ever made) Berdan l and Berdan ll (Pekhotniya vintovka Berdana obr. 1870g or 1868g) Cartridge: 42 Russian, or 10.75 x 58 mm paper patched bullet loaded with 77 grains of black powder Muzzle velocity: 1444 ft / sec (better than the trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan2 www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan1 Rarity: rare for the Berdan ll and extremely rare for the Berdan l 2. French Empire Chassepot Needle Rifle of 1866 Cartridge: 11mm paper cartridge loaded with a 386 grain heavy lead bullet Muzzle Velocity: 435 meters / sec History: ruclips.net/video/-QtrHC4L_8A/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons Rarity: Quite common 1854/69 Tabatiere System (Conversion) Cartridge: 17.8 mm x 35 R Muzzle Velocity: around 950 feet / sec (quite slow) History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/tabatierenew Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/FYUa4WPtMnE/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West Rarity: Rare Gras Rifle Model 1874 Catridge: (11mm x 59 R) Muzzle Velocity: 1450 ft / sec (Better than the trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/gras Rarity: Very Common Lebel 1886 (Smokeless) Cartridge: 8mm Lebel Muzzle Velocity: 2400 ft / sec Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds fully loaded Rarity: Very Common 3. German Empire Lindner Podewell Conversion Rifle (Bavarians) (Single Shot) Cartridge: (13.9 mm or .54 caliber) Muzzle Velocity: Unknown, I will assume that it is around 1250 ft / sec Rarity: Very Rare Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/rJ2ye522LPc/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West Bavarian Model 1869 Werder Rifle (Single shot) Catridge: 11mm x 50 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1465 feet / sec (Better than trapdoor) Rarity: Very Rare History: www.militaryrifles.com/bavaria/werder Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/CLWgPNFD4ck/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange German Mauser 1871 Rifle Cartridge: 11mm x 60 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Still a tiny bit better than trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/germany/mauser1871 Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/VX_I9BzxhQg/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Rarity: Quite Common German Mauser 71/84 Repeating Rifle (8 shots tubular magazine) Catridge: Same as before Muzzle Velocity: Same as before Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/3sMKLpoJ0i4/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Rarity: Common 4. Serbia Mauser Model of 1880 (Single Shot) or Mauser Koka Milavanovic Cartridge: Chambered for a 10.15 Caliber Cartridge Muzzle Velocity: 1680 feet / sec (Much better than trapdoor) History: www.militaryrifles.com/mausermilovanovic Rarity: Very Rare 5. Kingdom Of Italy Italian Single Shot Vetterli Modello 1870 ((Fucile da Fanteria mod.1870 Vetterli)) Rarity: Extremely Rare Cartridge: 10.4 mm Vetterli Cartridge, 11mm longer than the swiss vetterli cartridge Muzzle Velocity: Around 1400 ft / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/italy/vetterli Italian Carcano Needle Rifle (Conversion) Model of 1867 Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: Used a 17.4mm Paper Cartridge Muzzle Velocity: I will assume quite slow, I didn’t find good info on this History: ruclips.net/video/WeRhZ39pZKU/видео.html&ab_channel=sbamshooting Italian Vetterli Vitali Model 1870/87 Rarity: Common Cartridge: Used a same cartridge as the single shot, later in late 1880s, updated to a smokeless cartridge Ballistic Information: ruclips.net/video/_28pjG62aTo/видео.html&ab_channel=TheKoba49 Muzzle Velocity: I will assume around 2000 ft / sec after the smokeless update History: ruclips.net/video/8PIBzye7to8/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Italian Navy (Vetterli - Ferracciu) Model 1890 (Repeater) Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: 10.35 mm x 47 R (Smokeless Cartridge) History: ruclips.net/video/CO_5-xyX7P8/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons Muzzle Velocity: Shade above 2000 ft / sec 6. Norwegian Norwegian Jarmann Model 1884 Rifle (Tubeloading Repeater Rifle) Rarity: Extremely Rare Cartridge: Small bore 10.15 mm Muzzle Velocity: Around 1500 ft / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/jarmann 8. Empire of Greater Japan Murata Rifle Type 13 and Type 18(Model 1880 and 1885 村田銃) (Single Shot) Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: 11mm x 60 Japanese Murata (First produced domestic cartridge by Japan) Muzzle Velocity: Around 1430 ft / sec History: ruclips.net/video/zaFxutdq_mI/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons Murata Rifle Type 22 (Model 1889) 明治 二十 二 年 村田 運弾 銃Semi Smokeless Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: Used a domestic Cartridge 8mm x 53 R (tubeloader) Muzzle Velocity: 1850 feet / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/japan/murata22 9. Great Britain (Of course I don’t have to list this one) 10. Austrian Hungarian Empire Model 1867 Wanzl Conversion Rifle Rarity: Rare Cartridge: a 14mm x 33 Rimfire Muzzle Velocity: 1290 feet / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/austria/wanzl Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/DZv1BB0kWP8/видео.html&ab_channel=capandball Model 1869 Werndl Holub Rifle (Single Shot Rifle) Rarity: Common Cartridge: Fired 62 grain charge of black powder and a 314 grain paper patched bullet which has a caliber of 11.25 x 42 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Better than the trapdoor) History: ruclips.net/video/rRUW5eUZ5cM/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/qsxOStNi5RA/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal 11. Belgium Albini Braendlin Rifle (Conversion) Model 1777/69 1853/69 Rarity: Rare Cartridge: Fire an 11 mm, loaded with 77 grain of black powder. Caliber is 11mm x 50 R Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m1873albinibraendlin Belgian Terssen Rifle (Conversion) Rarity: Very Rare Catridge: Same as the albini braendlin Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m184868terssen Comblain Model 1870 (Single Shot Rifle) Rarity: Rare Catridge: Same as the Albini Braendlin Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet / sec History: ruclips.net/video/pPLiTJuC1rE/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/sWI9J5zEcyI/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal 12. Dutch / Netherlands Dutch Beaumont Single Shot Model 1871 Rarity: Very Rare Catridge: Fired a 336 grain paper patched bullet backed up with 5 grams of black powder. It is a 11x51R caliber round. Muzzle Velocity: 1380 feet / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont71 Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/S1qp6go2eDI/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West Dutch Beaumont Vitali (4 shots repeater) Model 1871/88 Rarity: Common Catridge: Fired a similar cartridge as the single shot beaumont and uses a 4 shots magazine with a cutoff. Muzzle Velocity: See above (Beaumont 1871) History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont7188 Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/I9NB3r0W0fs/видео.html&ab_channel=PaperCartridges 14. Switzerland Swiss Milbank Amsler Conversion Rifle Rarity: Very Rare Cartridge: Fired a stubby cartridge with a caliber of 18mm x 25 R or a .41 swiss depending on which guns converted. Muzzle Velocity: potentially really slow or fast depending on which caliber History: ruclips.net/video/lOrLi2I4w5A/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange Swiss Vetterli Rifle Rarity: Common Catridge: .41 swiss (Doesn’t use the italian cartridge) it is also a intermediate cartridge Muzzle Velocity: 1400 ft / sec History: www.militaryrifles.com/swissvetterli Thanks for reading the list. There are guns like the vetterli swiss, vetterli vitali, the jarmann rifle, etc that are much better than the trapdoor. But overall, I would say trapdoor are at least on par with the majority of the single shots.
thankyou very much this is helpfull and i will definitely be useing it. i agree many of these are better designs. the main thing i was getting at was people who say the trapdoor was obsolete when it was adopted. since the first true adoption came in 1866 i think it was rather state the art at the time.
@@Real11BangBang Yep. Some of them are extremely rare in the U.S., especially the russian arms. I heard the majority of them were ravaged for their materials and melted down for building tanks in WW2. The ones that are remaining are often in very poor condition.
"Gun Jesus" (Ian) will be heart broken if he misses French Guns of The American Revolution. Tennessee here
Enjoyed the conversation Garrett thanks and yes if a gun doesn't have wood I really don't have a use for it
lol %100
Hello Garret, I unfortunately joined late for the last session and I heard someone talking about the Vetterli Rifle. Below I have list of the majority of the adopted military arms from the foreign countries so that you can compare them to the U.S. trapdoor. I will say some of them are a bit better than the trapdoor, while others are much more problematic. I will link the website, general information, catridge muzzle velocity, caliber, and rarity for each of the below mentioned military arms.
1. Imperial Russia:
Model of 1857/69 Krnka Rifle (Пехотная Винтовка Крнка́ 1869)(Conversion rifle)
Catridge: 15.24 x 41mm, or .6 caliber Russian liniya
Muzzle Velocity: 350 meters / sec or 1150ft / sec(quite slow)
Video Showcasing one: ruclips.net/video/vj3fmq0kq10/видео.html&ab_channel=%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%87%D1%83%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%B9%D0%9E%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5GUNSROOM
Rarity: Very Rare in the United States
History: ruclips.net/video/dDfy5xmG2RM/видео.html&ab_channel=MosinMuseum
Model of 1856/69 Albini Baranov (For the Russian Navy)
орострельная винтовка системы лейтенанта Баранова
Cartridge: Same cartridge as the krnka
Muzzle Velocity: Same velocity as the Krnka
Rarity: Extremely Rare (only about 10k ever made), most of them destroyed
History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/baranov
Karle Needle Rifle
Cartridge: A paper cartridge, unknown details
Muzzle Velocity: I would infer that it is the same chassepot
History: en.topwar.ru/178711-i-zhille-i-terri-i-karle.html
Video: ruclips.net/video/BNsw25xJeSo/видео.html&ab_channel=PoppaSquat
Rarity: Extremely Rare (215 ever made)
Berdan l and Berdan ll (Pekhotniya vintovka Berdana obr. 1870g or 1868g)
Cartridge: 42 Russian, or 10.75 x 58 mm paper patched bullet loaded with 77 grains of black powder
Muzzle velocity: 1444 ft / sec (better than the trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan2
www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan1
Rarity: rare for the Berdan ll and extremely rare for the Berdan l
2. French Empire
Chassepot Needle Rifle of 1866
Cartridge: 11mm paper cartridge loaded with a 386 grain heavy lead bullet
Muzzle Velocity: 435 meters / sec
History: ruclips.net/video/-QtrHC4L_8A/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons
Rarity: Quite common
1854/69 Tabatiere System (Conversion)
Cartridge: 17.8 mm x 35 R
Muzzle Velocity: around 950 feet / sec (quite slow)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/tabatierenew
Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/FYUa4WPtMnE/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West
Rarity: Rare
Gras Rifle Model 1874
Catridge: (11mm x 59 R)
Muzzle Velocity: 1450 ft / sec (Better than the trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/gras
Rarity: Very Common
Lebel 1886 (Smokeless)
Cartridge: 8mm Lebel
Muzzle Velocity: 2400 ft / sec
Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds fully loaded
Rarity: Very Common
3. German Empire
Lindner Podewell Conversion Rifle (Bavarians) (Single Shot)
Cartridge: (13.9 mm or .54 caliber)
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown, I will assume that it is around 1250 ft / sec
Rarity: Very Rare
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/rJ2ye522LPc/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West
Bavarian Model 1869 Werder Rifle (Single shot)
Catridge: 11mm x 50 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1465 feet / sec (Better than trapdoor)
Rarity: Very Rare
History: www.militaryrifles.com/bavaria/werder
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/CLWgPNFD4ck/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange
German Mauser 1871 Rifle
Cartridge: 11mm x 60 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Still a tiny bit better than trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/germany/mauser1871
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/VX_I9BzxhQg/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Rarity: Quite Common
German Mauser 71/84 Repeating Rifle (8 shots tubular magazine)
Catridge: Same as before
Muzzle Velocity: Same as before
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/3sMKLpoJ0i4/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Rarity: Common
4. Serbia
Mauser Model of 1880 (Single Shot) or Mauser Koka Milavanovic
Cartridge: Chambered for a 10.15 Caliber Cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: 1680 feet / sec (Much better than trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/mausermilovanovic
Rarity: Very Rare
5. Kingdom Of Italy
Italian Single Shot Vetterli Modello 1870 ((Fucile da Fanteria mod.1870 Vetterli))
Rarity: Extremely Rare
Cartridge: 10.4 mm Vetterli Cartridge, 11mm longer than the swiss vetterli cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1400 ft / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/italy/vetterli
Italian Carcano Needle Rifle (Conversion) Model of 1867
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: Used a 17.4mm Paper Cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: I will assume quite slow, I didn’t find good info on this
History: ruclips.net/video/WeRhZ39pZKU/видео.html&ab_channel=sbamshooting
Italian Vetterli Vitali Model 1870/87
Rarity: Common
Cartridge: Used a same cartridge as the single shot, later in late 1880s, updated to a smokeless cartridge
Ballistic Information: ruclips.net/video/_28pjG62aTo/видео.html&ab_channel=TheKoba49
Muzzle Velocity: I will assume around 2000 ft / sec after the smokeless update
History: ruclips.net/video/8PIBzye7to8/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Italian Navy (Vetterli - Ferracciu) Model 1890 (Repeater)
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: 10.35 mm x 47 R (Smokeless Cartridge)
History: ruclips.net/video/CO_5-xyX7P8/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons
Muzzle Velocity: Shade above 2000 ft / sec
6. Norwegian
Norwegian Jarmann Model 1884 Rifle (Tubeloading Repeater Rifle)
Rarity: Extremely Rare
Cartridge: Small bore 10.15 mm
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1500 ft / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/jarmann
8. Empire of Greater Japan
Murata Rifle Type 13 and Type 18(Model 1880 and 1885 村田銃) (Single Shot)
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: 11mm x 60 Japanese Murata (First produced domestic cartridge by Japan)
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1430 ft / sec
History: ruclips.net/video/zaFxutdq_mI/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons
Murata Rifle Type 22 (Model 1889) 明治 二十 二 年 村田 運弾 銃Semi Smokeless
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: Used a domestic Cartridge 8mm x 53 R (tubeloader)
Muzzle Velocity: 1850 feet / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/japan/murata22
9. Great Britain (Of course I don’t have to list this one)
10. Austrian Hungarian Empire
Model 1867 Wanzl Conversion Rifle
Rarity: Rare
Cartridge: a 14mm x 33 Rimfire
Muzzle Velocity: 1290 feet / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/austria/wanzl
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/DZv1BB0kWP8/видео.html&ab_channel=capandball
Model 1869 Werndl Holub Rifle (Single Shot Rifle)
Rarity: Common
Cartridge: Fired 62 grain charge of black powder and a 314 grain paper patched bullet which has a caliber of 11.25 x 42 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Better than the trapdoor)
History: ruclips.net/video/rRUW5eUZ5cM/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/qsxOStNi5RA/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
11. Belgium
Albini Braendlin Rifle (Conversion) Model 1777/69 1853/69
Rarity: Rare
Cartridge: Fire an 11 mm, loaded with 77 grain of black powder. Caliber is 11mm x 50 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m1873albinibraendlin
Belgian Terssen Rifle (Conversion)
Rarity: Very Rare
Catridge: Same as the albini braendlin
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m184868terssen
Comblain Model 1870 (Single Shot Rifle)
Rarity: Rare
Catridge: Same as the Albini Braendlin
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet / sec
History: ruclips.net/video/pPLiTJuC1rE/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/sWI9J5zEcyI/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
12. Dutch / Netherlands
Dutch Beaumont Single Shot Model 1871
Rarity: Very Rare
Catridge: Fired a 336 grain paper patched bullet backed up with 5 grams of black powder. It is a 11x51R caliber round.
Muzzle Velocity: 1380 feet / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont71
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/S1qp6go2eDI/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West
Dutch Beaumont Vitali (4 shots repeater) Model 1871/88
Rarity: Common
Catridge: Fired a similar cartridge as the single shot beaumont and uses a 4 shots magazine with a cutoff.
Muzzle Velocity: See above (Beaumont 1871)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont7188
Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/I9NB3r0W0fs/видео.html&ab_channel=PaperCartridges
14. Switzerland
Swiss Milbank Amsler Conversion Rifle
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: Fired a stubby cartridge with a caliber of 18mm x 25 R or a .41 swiss depending on which guns converted.
Muzzle Velocity: potentially really slow or fast depending on which caliber
History: ruclips.net/video/lOrLi2I4w5A/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange
Swiss Vetterli Rifle
Rarity: Common
Catridge: .41 swiss (Doesn’t use the italian cartridge) it is also a intermediate cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 ft / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/swissvetterli
Thanks for reading, I hope you can compare these with the contemporary trapdoor. I will say that the later ones are much better than the trapdoors, like the jarmann.
Colt & Colt Style SAAs, S&W DAs especially K/L & N frames are my favourite handguns.
I've never figured out how these guys make any money off of a gun at a gun show that they mark up so high in price and they sit on it literally for 5 years like you say. I thought I was the only one who ever saw that. They won't take a penny less, but they'll load them in the trailer every friggin' Sunday, weekend after weekend for years not selling it.
lol they are going to a gun "sĥow" i guess. Definitely not a gun "sale"
@@Real11BangBang Yes. Look, but don't buy.
I have a deeply help belief that the grind of looking for brass and primers and turning people away from reloading is 100% by design.
you may very well be right
Totally missed this one! I'll listen to it today.
TC
Lol it was a bit spur of the moment
Garrett, I'm sorry I missed the show. I watched most of it this morning. I am an hour ahead so, my old body needs to sleep. I should be retired by now, but we all know why some of us old farts still have to work. I will try to catch the next live stream. I always enjoy the talk.
lol no worries it wasent really planned
I am very sorry to have missed this live. I appreciate you being here.
No worries
I’m from Granbury Texas and Bond arms was showcasing a 2 shot derringer in 9MM I told em give me that same derringer chambered in 44Mag/44 special and I would buy We will see where that goes 😂
lol they used to have a 44 mag some years ago
I agree. Invest in collectable antique firearms. Better than interest on a savings account.
I ♥ old guns.
Hello Garret, I unfortunately joined late for the last session and I heard someone talking about the Vetterli Rifle. Below I have list of the majority of the adopted military arms from the foreign countries so that you can compare them to the U.S. trapdoor. I will say some of them are a bit better than the trapdoor, while others are much more problematic. I will link the website, general information, catridge muzzle velocity, caliber, and rarity for each of the below mentioned military arms.
1. Imperial Russia:
Model of 1857/69 Krnka Rifle (Пехотная Винтовка Крнка́ 1869)(Conversion rifle)
Catridge: 15.24 x 41mm, or .6 caliber Russian liniya
Muzzle Velocity: 350 meters / sec or 1150ft / sec(quite slow)
Video Showcasing one: ruclips.net/video/vj3fmq0kq10/видео.html&ab_channel=%D0%9F%D0%BE%D1%87%D1%83%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D1%83%D0%B9%D0%9E%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5GUNSROOM
Rarity: Very Rare in the United States
History: ruclips.net/video/dDfy5xmG2RM/видео.html&ab_channel=MosinMuseum
Model of 1856/69 Albini Baranov (For the Russian Navy)
орострельная винтовка системы лейтенанта Баранова
Cartridge: Same cartridge as the krnka
Muzzle Velocity: Same velocity as the Krnka
Rarity: Extremely Rare (only about 10k ever made), most of them destroyed
History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/baranov
Karle Needle Rifle
Cartridge: A paper cartridge, unknown details
Muzzle Velocity: I would infer that it is the same chassepot
History: en.topwar.ru/178711-i-zhille-i-terri-i-karle.html
Video: ruclips.net/video/BNsw25xJeSo/видео.html&ab_channel=PoppaSquat
Rarity: Extremely Rare (215 ever made)
Berdan l and Berdan ll (Pekhotniya vintovka Berdana obr. 1870g or 1868g)
Cartridge: 42 Russian, or 10.75 x 58 mm paper patched bullet loaded with 77 grains of black powder
Muzzle velocity: 1444 ft / sec (better than the trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan2
www.militaryrifles.com/russia/berdan1
Rarity: rare for the Berdan ll and extremely rare for the Berdan l
2. French Empire
Chassepot Needle Rifle of 1866
Cartridge: 11mm paper cartridge loaded with a 386 grain heavy lead bullet
Muzzle Velocity: 435 meters / sec
History: ruclips.net/video/-QtrHC4L_8A/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons
Rarity: Quite common
1854/69 Tabatiere System (Conversion)
Cartridge: 17.8 mm x 35 R
Muzzle Velocity: around 950 feet / sec (quite slow)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/tabatierenew
Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/FYUa4WPtMnE/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West
Rarity: Rare
Gras Rifle Model 1874
Catridge: (11mm x 59 R)
Muzzle Velocity: 1450 ft / sec (Better than the trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/france/gras
Rarity: Very Common
Lebel 1886 (Smokeless)
Cartridge: 8mm Lebel
Muzzle Velocity: 2400 ft / sec
Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds fully loaded
Rarity: Very Common
3. German Empire
Lindner Podewell Conversion Rifle (Bavarians) (Single Shot)
Cartridge: (13.9 mm or .54 caliber)
Muzzle Velocity: Unknown, I will assume that it is around 1250 ft / sec
Rarity: Very Rare
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/rJ2ye522LPc/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West
Bavarian Model 1869 Werder Rifle (Single shot)
Catridge: 11mm x 50 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1465 feet / sec (Better than trapdoor)
Rarity: Very Rare
History: www.militaryrifles.com/bavaria/werder
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/CLWgPNFD4ck/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange
German Mauser 1871 Rifle
Cartridge: 11mm x 60 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Still a tiny bit better than trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/germany/mauser1871
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/VX_I9BzxhQg/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Rarity: Quite Common
German Mauser 71/84 Repeating Rifle (8 shots tubular magazine)
Catridge: Same as before
Muzzle Velocity: Same as before
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/3sMKLpoJ0i4/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Rarity: Common
4. Serbia
Mauser Model of 1880 (Single Shot) or Mauser Koka Milavanovic
Cartridge: Chambered for a 10.15 Caliber Cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: 1680 feet / sec (Much better than trapdoor)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/mausermilovanovic
Rarity: Very Rare
5. Kingdom Of Italy
Italian Single Shot Vetterli Modello 1870 ((Fucile da Fanteria mod.1870 Vetterli))
Rarity: Extremely Rare
Cartridge: 10.4 mm Vetterli Cartridge, 11mm longer than the swiss vetterli cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1400 ft / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/italy/vetterli
Italian Carcano Needle Rifle (Conversion) Model of 1867
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: Used a 17.4mm Paper Cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: I will assume quite slow, I didn’t find good info on this
History: ruclips.net/video/WeRhZ39pZKU/видео.html&ab_channel=sbamshooting
Italian Vetterli Vitali Model 1870/87
Rarity: Common
Cartridge: Used a same cartridge as the single shot, later in late 1880s, updated to a smokeless cartridge
Ballistic Information: ruclips.net/video/_28pjG62aTo/видео.html&ab_channel=TheKoba49
Muzzle Velocity: I will assume around 2000 ft / sec after the smokeless update
History: ruclips.net/video/8PIBzye7to8/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Italian Navy (Vetterli - Ferracciu) Model 1890 (Repeater)
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: 10.35 mm x 47 R (Smokeless Cartridge)
History: ruclips.net/video/CO_5-xyX7P8/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons
Muzzle Velocity: Shade above 2000 ft / sec
6. Norwegian
Norwegian Jarmann Model 1884 Rifle (Tubeloading Repeater Rifle)
Rarity: Extremely Rare
Cartridge: Small bore 10.15 mm
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1500 ft / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/jarmann
8. Empire of Greater Japan
Murata Rifle Type 13 and Type 18(Model 1880 and 1885 村田銃) (Single Shot)
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: 11mm x 60 Japanese Murata (First produced domestic cartridge by Japan)
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1430 ft / sec
History: ruclips.net/video/zaFxutdq_mI/видео.html&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons
Murata Rifle Type 22 (Model 1889) 明治 二十 二 年 村田 運弾 銃Semi Smokeless
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: Used a domestic Cartridge 8mm x 53 R (tubeloader)
Muzzle Velocity: 1850 feet / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/japan/murata22
9. Great Britain (Of course I don’t have to list this one)
10. Austrian Hungarian Empire
Model 1867 Wanzl Conversion Rifle
Rarity: Rare
Cartridge: a 14mm x 33 Rimfire
Muzzle Velocity: 1290 feet / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/austria/wanzl
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/DZv1BB0kWP8/видео.html&ab_channel=capandball
Model 1869 Werndl Holub Rifle (Single Shot Rifle)
Rarity: Common
Cartridge: Fired 62 grain charge of black powder and a 314 grain paper patched bullet which has a caliber of 11.25 x 42 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1420 feet / sec (Better than the trapdoor)
History: ruclips.net/video/rRUW5eUZ5cM/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/qsxOStNi5RA/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
11. Belgium
Albini Braendlin Rifle (Conversion) Model 1777/69 1853/69
Rarity: Rare
Cartridge: Fire an 11 mm, loaded with 77 grain of black powder. Caliber is 11mm x 50 R
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m1873albinibraendlin
Belgian Terssen Rifle (Conversion)
Rarity: Very Rare
Catridge: Same as the albini braendlin
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet/ sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/belguim/m184868terssen
Comblain Model 1870 (Single Shot Rifle)
Rarity: Rare
Catridge: Same as the Albini Braendlin
Muzzle Velocity: Around 1370 feet / sec
History: ruclips.net/video/pPLiTJuC1rE/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/sWI9J5zEcyI/видео.html&ab_channel=C%26Rsenal
12. Dutch / Netherlands
Dutch Beaumont Single Shot Model 1871
Rarity: Very Rare
Catridge: Fired a 336 grain paper patched bullet backed up with 5 grams of black powder. It is a 11x51R caliber round.
Muzzle Velocity: 1380 feet / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont71
Shooting Video: ruclips.net/video/S1qp6go2eDI/видео.html&ab_channel=GuyandLeonardA-R-West
Dutch Beaumont Vitali (4 shots repeater) Model 1871/88
Rarity: Common
Catridge: Fired a similar cartridge as the single shot beaumont and uses a 4 shots magazine with a cutoff.
Muzzle Velocity: See above (Beaumont 1871)
History: www.militaryrifles.com/netherlands/beaumont7188
Shooting video: ruclips.net/video/I9NB3r0W0fs/видео.html&ab_channel=PaperCartridges
14. Switzerland
Swiss Milbank Amsler Conversion Rifle
Rarity: Very Rare
Cartridge: Fired a stubby cartridge with a caliber of 18mm x 25 R or a .41 swiss depending on which guns converted.
Muzzle Velocity: potentially really slow or fast depending on which caliber
History: ruclips.net/video/lOrLi2I4w5A/видео.html&ab_channel=BlokeontheRange
Swiss Vetterli Rifle
Rarity: Common
Catridge: .41 swiss (Doesn’t use the italian cartridge) it is also a intermediate cartridge
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 ft / sec
History: www.militaryrifles.com/swissvetterli
Thanks for reading the list. There are guns like the vetterli swiss, vetterli vitali, the jarmann rifle, etc that are much better than the trapdoor. But overall, I would say trapdoor are at least on par with the majority of the single shots.
thankyou very much this is helpfull and i will definitely be useing it. i agree many of these are better designs. the main thing i was getting at was people who say the trapdoor was obsolete when it was adopted. since the first true adoption came in 1866 i think it was rather state the art at the time.
@@Real11BangBang Yep. Some of them are extremely rare in the U.S., especially the russian arms. I heard the majority of them were ravaged for their materials and melted down for building tanks in WW2. The ones that are remaining are often in very poor condition.