Why Ableton Live CANNOT be used for live looping! Hardware Looper vs Ableton Live 10!
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Today we are going to discuss why I use Ableton Live Software with my BOSS RC-505 Loop Station. Obviously, Ableton Live 10 is known for it's live looping performance capabilities. However, there are some major draw backs, which means you still need to use a tradition hardware loop pedal in combination with Ableton Live.
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Hi Ben. What's the best way to reach out to you to ask some questions about my live rig? I'm happy to pay a fee.
There's a USB footpedal called Datalooper: it greatly enhances Abletons Looper-Capabilities! In order to replace my RC505 i changed the Dataloopers Standard Preset, so i see 9 Looper Plugins at the same time (via LED colors you see if it s play/record/overdub/stopped) .
2 years later and I'm just here to say that there are solutions to all of your issues. I've been using ableton as my stand alone looping device since the end of 2018 for over 200+ solo looping gigs a year (aside from 2020&2021). I play covers and moved from a boomerang pedal (and I've had half a dozen pedals before that). There are quirks to using ableton for live performance as a solo loop artist but once you get the hang of it, your creative possibilities will be endless. It's made me a better performer and so much has happened for my career since making the jump. Is it because of ableton? No. Would I be where I am, doing the shows I have, making the connections I've made without it? Nope. I know because I've made more progress in that time span, than I did in the 10 years prior when I used hardware looper pedals. Like I said, your points are valid but there are solutions. Don't be discouraged.
dude ! love ur work, im gonna hit u up about ur setup , im making similar moves from boomerang, voiceovers ,boss to Ableton but still figuring it out
@@jahstix i hae the rc and i' now have more midi controllers for ableton, would love to see your setup. checking your channel now. Thanks!
Umm yeah I'd like the see the push 3, I have a couple different ideas for this
That unmatched UI of the RC-505 is why I use it. I chose that Boss box over other loopers with higher bit rates and sturdier cases. It’s those fabulous buttons, the color-coded status on the lighted indicators that make all the difference, especially with multiple tracks.
Yes, you have to put three vocal tracks for overdubs but u only would need one instance of every plugin if you set it up to send only to a return track. If you're having troubles seeing what Ableton does then there are good and reasonably priced solutions to visualize the ableton session view. Consider Novation Launchpads, e.g. X or Pro mk3 (even mk2). I love your content though. Just subbed ;)
Thanks a lot for this Ben
As I learn about how powerful Ableton is I'd started to think I'd wasted my money buying a Boss 505 but now I'm feeling good about it again!
Not Ableton just by itself, get a proper midi controller for the task (Apc40 mk I or II or Push I or II) along with a proper computer according to the complexity of your needs, i'll suggest having an SSD drive (which is a must) and at least 8gb of RAM, go to your settings and check your Sampler rates and buffer size, the lower the number the least processing (and quality as well) i am currently using 44.1hz sample rate and 512 samples on a 2012 macbook with an Ableton Push I and im having such a blast introducing effects to 8 channels and adding textures to the master channel and having a sequencer/midi keys/sampler and pretty much all the great things a daw can offer you in real time, of course and RC is a reliable device, it's meant for the task which opens a door for the dawless performers universe(which may take a lot of money). but hey, you can have that and as most features you can imagine investing the time to create your own setup and having also amazing tools to produce with with almost the same money, RC can have its limitacions and thats where surely some "magic creativity" can happen and using a computer might have its own problems too, but with time well invested can offer you even more, don't be afraid of technology, get in known with it guys!
How about Ableton Push?
The problem is when you want to record audio source and overdub them instead of midi that is not an issue to be able to overdub. You cannot overdub your audio without creating tracks. Have you tried this?
Ive been using push for a few years and while I can create beautiful music and I'm used to the workflow,
(Also having endless editing and control in the software),
I've been looking at the rc505 mk2 for quite some time and I'm debating making the switch to hardware when available
Very good video. I find it bizarre that ableton make you buy a £500 push2 to have an audio fixed length macro button for audio loops. Ableton looper plugin pitch shifts the audio when changing bpm. Fixed length method doesn’t. And yet ableton try and say they treat midi loops like audio loops, which simply isn’t true. Can’t audio over dub same wav file without creating second strip clip. Unlike midi clip. People say use macro scripts like m4l or clyhx pro but these arent supported on latest Live 11 version. So my next question is how do you BpM sync rc 505 with ableton And only have one in ear metronome for both ableton and rc 505?
Push is very overrated
Hey guys my opinion on the topic may somewhat touch on all of the previous replies. I hope this helps in some kinda way. I think that “making the switch” or “which way is better” is the wrong way to look at this. They are completely different entities that happen to share a few similar capabilities. The RC 505 is awesome for what it’s for…Live loopIng. It’s got other features but it’s all surrounding processing audio for live looping. Just like Ableton is really good at doing what it does. It’s live looping may have some shortcomings for some people but it does a million things that the 505 just can’t. musicians do amazing live looping with Ableton and a Push (and lots of other controllers), and make it look easy without looking at or touching a computer. like anything it takes preparation, practice, and some getting used to. The 505 is a 5 track looping station with audio processing built in and over dub capabilities…and they made it easy to learn and use. But of course the learning curve is way faster/easier than Ableton with a push 2. It’s like trying to compare the learning curve of a See-N-Say machine with a CNC machine. Don’t get me wrong, the 505 is sweet and I love mine…but I don’t care what king of genius is using it…it’s never going to have Abletons capabilities of being a portable recording studio, that’s able to produce professional level albums, literally right out of the box, before u even think about what controller u want.But why limit urself by switching? Incorporate them both into ur music. And if you want to use them both at the same time then sync up their clocks thru one of the many ways and u won’t have to worry about the limitations of metronomes and headphones, or our limitations as far as multitasking goes, or even number of eyes, ears, hands or toes. Also, I don’t think the push (specifically the push 2) is overrated. It’s a solid piece of kit that is currently unmatched if you are an ableton user. Even if u barely scratch the surface of what it can actually do. Sure I wish it wasn’t as expensive as it is. But it’s on par for what it can do. I love my $150 launchpad X, but it’s not as capable as my beloved $350 LP pro mk3, who’s is not as capable as my $700 push 2. But they all have there place. Just like my 505 and every other piece of gear I’ve acquired over the years.
Hi Ben, the Ableton 11 Looper CAN Overdub... so maybe this is a different story... :-)
Glad I read this before I threw all my gear out the window and moved to the woods
@@ACABSTUDIOS Doing that isn't always the worst decision..
Thank you for this video man!
Let me help you a bit 😉
1- Don't use clips for live looping
2- Add all your looper plugins in 1 track so you can see them all
3- To map multiple midi commands to one single footswitch, Ableton allows you to create midi clips that can trigger multiple midi commands, map the footswitch to trigger the midi clip and voilà, multiple commands are executed
This is cool, Miles!
Yes use multiple loopers not clips, Im not sure why Ben went in to that after talking about using multiple loopers. But I do get his point with the 505 being better for visual feedback. Also I like your idea for multiple loopers on one track, but I like to pan my guitar slightly on each looper to give stereo width. Not sure if that would get over complicated all on one track. But some great tips there.
Having all looper plugins in one Track leads to not being able to use Effect Sends for each individual Loop, right?
@@sternenherz you can use an audio rack to wrap loopers and apply different effects to them
In my experience this doesn’t work. Each loop actually takes information from the loop before it since it is structured like a chain. Also, you would be stuck with the input from the channel itself. So if I’m on the guitar channel, I can’t work with the looping for the voice channel
man, you are very cool, idk how tf you haven't got like at least 500k, you have quite a great quality production and your personality is great! I'm not even that much into looping and it's enjoyable, keep up man, for me ahahahah
Haha thank you for this lovely comment! I appreciate it! For sure the videos will keep coming! Really glad you like them!
Theres a max4live plugin that displays looper status for many channels at once, been using it for a few years.
That would solve your overdub problem, the start bpm problem, the virtual rc-505 display problem, the what-to-do-if-it-falls apart problem (map a button to song stop and to clear the loopers), and still allows you to use ableton as normal ableton while you do that.
Mind giving the name of the Max4Live plugin?
I could say I've mastered live looping on ableton, I can also say it wasn't hard, and I can also say it has none of the problems described in this video
@@musicmoonshine can you say how?
I also have the 8 knobs permanently controlling either my record or output effects depending on a switch, I do stuff like set up a 'time' knob that controls the sustain length on the reverb, but also the timing on the delay effect and the speed of the flange etc, while each effect generally fades itself in, the order of the stack is very important, and I end it with low/high pass knobs for input and output
pitchproof is an ok transpose, works live and sounds great, a little bit more latent than the actual 505 still looking for a better option for transpose effects, but its plugin latency is 0 so it doesnt affect anything else in a live setting
the rabbit hole goes even deeper when you start setting up queueing with the crossfader
Excellent points. The directness of the RC-505 is hard to beat. Too bad it doesn't send controller for all its buttons or I would map most of it in ableton to get the beat of both worlds.
I've just switched to ableton from the RC 505 (because of limitation of five tracks and difficulty of working with long loops, in composing), and plan to use push 2 which solves a lot of the problems you mentioned, with its lights and multiPad layout, particularly in user mode where everything is programmable. And I plan to use Ableton’s looper for audio tracks. Capture for midi is phenomenal and alone blows hardware out of the water.
We'll see…
or you could get an akai apc40 or ableton push to get physical buttons and lights, no?
It seems to me that neither Ableton LIve nor bitwig make the overdub situation work well. I am contemplating writing my own VST plugin for looping with a clear emphasis on having a VERY LARGE and very simple visual feedback system. In addition, using something like a Launchpad or a Push controller can really get a lot of the benefits of the physical looper. For instance having the loop position show on the launchpad is easy to do using a launchpad with bitwig.
Dude you can use Ableton Live Mobius Looper plugin to get a good visual feedback.
Also you can set up a small extra screen on the floor attached to your pedalboard.
I have a iPad as a monitor screen so I don't need to look my laptop.
But yes ableton is limited with the midi mapping and that is a shame.
Ed Sheeran uses Mobius looper and midi mapping but he's needs are very simple so it works for him.
Are the Macros and CC mapping not flexible enough to apply one controller to multiple settings?
I figured out ma perfect setup with Ableton a few key plugins for looping automatically & on command with Mic Guitar Bass drumpad midi keyboard. all from a laptop. Maybe i should make a tutorial.. but it sounds like a lot of work.
Isnt it possible to use The Rc505 as a Slave to trigger the Ableton Looper Plugins in each Track and give visual feedback? (Basically rendering the Rc505 into a AbletonLiveLooperController rather than using its internal Looping functions.) That would combine the great haptical control and visual feedback of the Rc505 with Abletons infinite possibilities. Best of two worlds together! Isnt that possible?
Hey ben! I saw a video recently (not alot of views) but you can make a looper track and chain your tracks you want to loop. Ill comment the link later but solves the ableton issue you ran into!
have a link?
ruclips.net/video/k5A6Nku49aM/видео.html
Why would you use a mouse though, when there's a whole range of midi-controllers that you can control Ableton with?
You actually can overdub really easily on ableton using the session record button on the main toolbar next to the play/stop/rec buttons...
Only words for Midi clips unfortunately, hence why they created the looper istrument..
Cheers Ben. Confirms my predilection for hardware. I just get bamboozled with Ableton, its too much tbh rather have some good old hardware limitations to workaround🤣
Hello Ben, what do you use for a good midi clock? ( a good quantize)
Super ! Thanks for this vidéo ...i really OK With this point of view ! I have test ...looping in live With Ableton is too dangerous. Not clean and make à lot of trouble shooting! Lot of possibilities but not quality as hardware
Thoughts on Enso?
Good vid! I use ableton with midi controller (launch key) but even so I spend to much time on the screen and too little on the music! Bought the RC 505 hoping to get more soul and fun in making music and lose less energy on software mapping. Fingers crossed! 👍💪🏼
Hi am new to this! And looking into what to purchase...
This seems like some of these issues can be resolved if Ableton was simply better programmed. For example, the looper plugin only showing from one track instead of multiple ones.
2 years later, have any of these issues been saved by new plug-ins/ drivers / new version of Ableton?
thanx for this info i also go over to rc505 witch is better?the MK1 or the MK2 RC505?
I had an RC 300 years ago but it was stolen and I'm not going to pay another $500 for another looping machine loved the layout of that pedal but now I have a 2 in 1 laptop and a 8-foot switch MIDI I'm currently looking for a software solution for looping just like this guy is and I like the look of program called quantiloop but it's only for iOS hopefully by now Ableton maybe have some of these things figured out to make it easier for what it is we are looking for in a Looper software solution
Ben, please help me on my nektar pacer and rc 5050, can´t get them to work
where can I write you?
right with you on this my man.. any luck with Abelton 11? Abelton should watch this video!
This was a really interesting video! For those of you that already tried Logic s live loops
I ve been using that instead of ableton live. And again it has limitations. This man as a point. Look at Marc Rebillet as an example
I started out using Logic Live Loops and it works great with MIDI instruments. For vocal and Audio loops it tends to be quite buggy; tracks not wanting to arm, playback just randomly stopping, etc... I switched to Live 11 and never looked back
Good video. Audio Loop status feedback is key. I find it bizarre that ableton make you buy a £500 push2 to have an audio fixed length macro button for audio loops. Ableton looper plugin pitch shifts the audio when changing bpm. Fixed length method doesn’t. And yet ableton try and say they treat midi loops like audio loops, which simply isn’t true. Can’t audio over dub same wav file without creating second strip clip. Unlike midi clip. People say use macro scripts like m4l or clyhx pro but these arent supported on latest Live 11 version. So my next question is how do you BpM sync rc 505 with ableton And only have one in ear metronome for both ableton and rc 505?
touchosc or looper.display
Very helpful. Thanks
Hey, thanks for your precious help. I am encountering this situation: I am trying to record something on ableton through RC-505 as a music interface (not using it as a looper). I have a sample/song on ableton which is playing and I want to use my microphone on RC-505 to get the vocals for the song. My settings on ableton (on preferences) are : ASIO->RC-505. I want to have clean vocals without getting the song sound (computer input) on the track of the vocals. However, I want to hear the song through my headphones on RC-505 while recording the vocals. At this time, I can't get clean vocals, as I am also getting the song. Is there any way/setting that can help me achieve my goal?
Once you figure it out you can do stuff like Elise Trouw :)
It's cool what she does, using loop automation and record triggers. But it's complexity different style of looping, I've tried it out before. Can be useful! I still prefer the tradition looper control.
@@BenRowlandsMusic definitely less preparation required in the traditional way. Also, when you make a mistake you can always Undo the loop and start over. I have a windows pc so there is no free midi driver to automate the looping properly. That's what holding me back to try the hands free automated looping
Ableton looper is the sesion view
you can use a midi foot controller too, right? much cheaper. basically makes ableton better than rc.
I mean group the tracks
great video!
I feel hardware was just made for performance. DAWs are made for perfection in the studio. Live performances should be flawed, but should be performed by a person who is dedicated to gradual perfection. I didn't pay $200 to see a guy press play and look at his screen. I payed $200 to watch a musical Olympian to blow me the fuck away. Metallica was a perfect example. And I'm talking about Metallica in the 80s and early 90s, when they were at their prime. Everything they did was from muscle memory. And was near flawless. Wich is truly scary if you think about it. But that's all they did. Every day. I feel computers make you more of an engineer rather than a artist. I understand why Ableton was huge at the time it came out. Because hardware wasn't as good as it is today and it was fucking expensive. But now, there's no excuse.
Just stopped in to say hi.
Hey David!! Hope you’re doing good my friend!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🎸🎸
because button
Title is Incorrect! Don't Clickbait.
If you do a metronome test you find ableton looper never get it on time
Ableton Live can be, and is being used for live looping. Sounds like a lot of you problems in this video.
Why are you but hurt? I have done a lot of live looping shows alone with ableton live and I would agree with Ben. It’s really tough to toggle between instruments to see what your loops are doing. It was a nice inexpensive option to start looping but I’m definitely going with a hardware looper (boss or electro harmonix) soon for all the reasons he lists.
dont use distro
your wrong