@@keenanilingan965 Kareem laid him out, on the court and with the written word. Wilt, for as giant as he was physically, did not measure up emotionally.
I remember watching the first match when Williams lost to Graf with my grandfather, a former low-level pro, and he stated then that with the correct discipline Serena could easily go down as the greatest ladies Tennis player ever, because of her power and feet at such a young age...he predicted the future...Serena is the greatest EVER for her to make such adjustments in a 60-day span was unreal.
I personally believe if Venus didn't suffer from her physical disorder that she would have been the best of all-time but yes because of Venus going down Serena really had nobody in her era good enough to consistently beat her.
@@rickybobby8716 Yep did you know nobody has beaten Serena more times than Venus? And Venus stopped being a top 5 player YEARS ago and she STILL has more career wins against her sister than ANYBODY ELSE.
It’s a real pity when one sees that Venus who won 7 slams and moved like a puma at her peak only managed to stay on the top spot for 2 total weeks 20 years ago.
This was EXACTLY what I was thinking. And Pete and Federer's 5 setter was an improtant moment for the changing of the guard (I was a Sampras fan back then and took it hard)
That moment was HUGE. Sampras still won another slam after that but that gave Federer the momentum to go on arguably the most dominant run in men's tennis ever.
Graf's 1988 Grand Slam was actually a Golden Slam. She also won the Olympic Gold that year. Nobody's ever done that on the men or women's circuit, show how rare it is.
are there any other channels to learn tennis history and historical players from? (not quite it, but David foster wallace's essay on Tracy Austin is one of the best essays ive ever re- well... listened to)
Is it weird that a video about tennis made me tear up at the end? This story is so moving, about one player passing the torch to another, with a great spirit of sorority.
Hamilton - Schumacher overlap would be fun to do since they're tied with F1 GP wins but Hamilton has 2 or 3 good years left in him plus the 5 more races this season with no game-changing rule changes in sight.
True, but Schumi was a mere back-marker when Senna was World Champion. The overlap was a full 3 seasons from when Williams were beating McLaren until Senna joined Williams as Schumi became the best driver in F1 driving a Benetton-Ford, a few races before Senna's crash at Imola. If the overlap is that long, then we might as well talk about the three seasons Schumi came out of retirement driving for the team that would eventually give Hamilton 5 more World Championships. Senna ∩ Schumacher ∩ Hamilton
As a German Steffi Graf will always be Germany’s goat, but I grew up seeing the greatness of Serena and her becoming the worlds goat. What a career. One of the stars of my life, that won’t be toppled
Steffi did a calendar slam including the 1988 Olympic gold medal. Serena didnt (did hold all 4 at once but didnt win all in same year). Steffi is better than Serena. So is Margaret Court and Martina. I'd personally rate Chris Evert better since Evert played against tougher opposition for most of her career. Look at the trash opponents Serena had in the 2nd half of her career. Her slam title was against her sister who was aged 36. Plus I can't take anyone seriously as the goat that lost a grand slam final to Sam "Choker" Stosur.
I agree Serena is the GOAT, she's the Open era slam and olympic gold record holder for a reason, BUT steffi is not far off at all! I miss them both a lot
Serena won only 73 of 240 tournaments played. Steffi 107 of 214. Serena needed 81 slams for 23 titles. Steffi just 54 for 22. Serena has a 85.6 winning percentage. Steffi had 89.2. Serena won 3+ slams in 2 years. Steffi un 5. Serena faltered on the threshold of a Grand Slam. Steffi won the Golden Slam. Serena won most of her slams against Wozniacki types. Steffi against Navratilova/Seles.
Overlap: Bob Cousy and Oscar Robertson together on the Cincinnati Royals potentially? A rewinder of Raja Bell's game winner against the Clippers, Anthony Bennett getting drafted or Pachulia's foul on Kawhi Leonard would be cool too, great content as always.
@@bentonlott6272 he's Jordan with nine rings. He's a 45 ppg average across a career. He shoots 96% from the line and drives like Iverson. The Don stands alone.
This is such a good sports story and I'd love more like it. A young up and comer overtaking one of the greats on their own way to greatness and without any beef. I hope you do more of these type of overlap in the future.
Erm... Serena hasn't overtaken Graf, most people still consider Graf the goat as she is winning in accolades. Serena will have to make a few more strides to comfortable over take her.
As we grow older our perception of time broadens to encompass entire years, even decades. Yet as a child a single year is large beyond comprehension. Even as a teen we can fit a lot of growth into a month or two so I do not doubt that Serena could see it like back in the day, 6 weeks ago.
Very cool video of both tennis legends. We, as tennis fans, are so fortunate that we were able to witness actually two overlapping eras where iconic legends competed against each other. A young Steffi Graf vs veterans Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert in the 80’s and a young Serena Williams vs veteran Steffi in the 90’s. We had a glimpse of what could have been an amazing rivalry, where both are supreme athletes who wielded the greatest weapons ever ... Steffi’s forehand vs. Serena’s serve! That’s why I find Steffi’s tennis career/history amazing because she overlapped in two eras. She competed against legends in Martina and Chris in her youth and a future legend in Serena as a veteran. Steffi’s accomplishments are mind blowing with her 22 grand slams, her 1988 calendar year grand slam plus Olympic gold aka ‘the Golden Grand Slam’, a non-calendar year grand slam between 1993-1994, her record 377 weeks at #1, and the best all-around tennis pro winning 4 or more grand slams on different surfaces... all achieved at the age of 30 prior to her retirement in 1999. She also had a memorable comeback from major reconstructive knee surgery in 1997 and being away from the tour for a year. If you think about it, it’s a wonderful story-like bookends with her first French Open title in ‘87 and her last FO slam win in ‘99. Steffi Graf is the equivalent of what we see in the great Roger Federer. His game very much emulates Steffi’s game from his shotmaking to his movement. IMHO, both are the greatest ever!!! This video makes me truly appreciate those memorable matches in 1999 between Steffi vs Serena! Thank you!!!
No way. Hingis always owned her. Plus convenient how you leave out her being dominated by seles till monica has her career derailed by a deranged fan of graf. Gtfo. Revisionist history much.
Alex D You’re comment is not accurate at all. Steffi has a head-to-head record of 7 wins vs 2 losses to Martina Hingis so saying Martina owns her is clearly false. Even Steffi’s two losses to Martina were all 3 sets and very close matches. You’re clearly just trying to rile things up but I will acknowledge one thing. I do believe that if Monica wasn’t stabbed, she would have won more but not necessarily taken away from Steffi’s wins. Monica was great and I wish her tragedy never happened.
This is one of the best videos Secret Base (or SB Nation) has ever produced, and it's a damn shame than the view count isn't ten times higher. Brilliant from start to finish.
@GoTeam: Graf had no competition that year. It was pre-Seles and Evert @ Navratilova were over. Serena had Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Sharapova, Hingis, etc. No contest. Graf not even top 5.
@GoTeam: Graf didn’t face either Evert or Navratilova to clinch the Slam you buffoon. In fact she was gifted the Semi Final as a decrepit, aged Evert (who would still have beaten Graf) withdrew. Then she played Sabatini in the final, hardly a great of the game lol. Graf took advantage of aged end-of-era Evert & Navratilova in the pre-Seles era. The same Seles who owned Graf and tennis in 92-93. Graf is way behind Serena, Seles, Evert, Navratilova, Court, and King. They all didn’t depend on stabbed rivals to win.
I love Serena, but Germany is my homeland and Graf was such a huge figure in my childhood, there’s nothing that can top Steffi’s golden slam. And being a 4x grand slam winner. Unbelievable.
@Max E what she did was great but Serena is on a whole other level especially when she peaked. Graf would’ve most likely not had such great success if her biggest rival hadn’t been stabbed and out of play. I’ve seen graf play, graf was a serve and forehand player. Serena has all of those but better and an overall complete game. It’s also hard to point out the different paths that happen, Serena Williams likely would’ve had more slams if it wasn’t for cheating opponents (Justine hennin’s hand in fo 2003) or chair umps and line judges Missing so many calls, )
@Max E actually for you to assume that Serena would’ve lost despite the MANY times she has come back and won after being so close to losing is just silly. Also your comments about beauty when comparing tennis players already implies you have a bias based on looks as opposed to skill which is the only thing that should be discussed. You also didn’t say anything about the us open match against capriati that I mentioned. Hmm, also there was the us open match against clijsters where the line judge incorrectly called a foot fault. Or the us open match against Carlos Rodrigues- err excuse me- Naomi Osaka. Unfortunately for you, the facts are not on your side as Serena Williams matches are far more known than Steffi grafs. Also if you had any basic understanding of tennis. You would know how the Williams sisters changed women’s tennis as of now. Your “watchability” factor just comes across as you prefer to watch steffi graff because she’s what you consider to be better looking. Go do some research if you are willing to learn.
@Max E incorrect. The line judge absolutely didn’t make the correct call. All the replays showed that. You pointing out great moments that graf did doesn’t negate the accomplishments of Serena. You can’t logically tell me that graf would’ve won so much against seles had she not been stabbed in her prime. Also if you are bringing personal incidents into it, Serena had a child, sister got stabbed, suffered multiple life threatening pulmonary embolisms. It’s silly. Also I don’t understand why you are debating the merits of their play when you yourself say you only watch for the aesthetics and not for the skill. Graf is an amazing tennis player, but Serena is better. Graf had a great forehand and serve, Serena had a better serve and forehand, better movement, better backhand, better ground strokes, better net game and far better precision. Serena (and credit to Venus) changed the way the women’s game is played because of their dominance. Your fan vote i. The 2000 when Serena Williams hadn’t matured into top form? Really? That’s your best argument? That’s just silly as well considering in 2000 Serena had won one slam and was years away from playing her best tennis.
@Max E “when did Serena peak?” Hmm, twice. In 2002-2003 and then again in 2012-2013. Serena’s first peak was around the same age as Graf’s peak, and then her second peak was past Graf’s retirement age. Even Evert, a longtime Serena critic, said Serena played the best clay court tennis she’s ever seen during the 2013 FO semifinal and final, and clay is Serena’s worst surface.
Serena won 23 grand slams having played 100 less singles tennis matches than Steffi Graf (this is a fact, just look at the records) and on top of that Serena won 2 mixed doubles grand slams and 14 doubles grand slams with 4 Olympic gold, while Steffi spent her time focusing solely on singles. Sorry mate but Serena is the greatest.
Seth, my bro, u r the main reason why I watch basketball a lot more consistently than b4 and also u made me support a team of desperate benchwarmers and old outshaped athletes like the Knicks... Can u do a video about Latrell Sprewell and the 98/99 NY campaign or, more in general, about the 90s Knicks? I know, there is a Collapse video (ofc) about them after that historic 99 playoff run, but it would be so cool and u, as a Knicks’ fan, would describe both stories perfectly
Jeez Serena was so ferocious when she was just a baby! You can utterly feel her power from her strokes and style! Definitely game changer for so many years! I hope she wins one more grand slam before she retires.
As an amateur tennisplayer who definitely would have tried to become pro if I grew up in the right environment and a fan of both of these women this was an absolute treat to watch and listen to. ❤👍🏿👏🏿
This might be a longshot, but I would be overjoyed to see even a single Secret Base video on Australian Rules Football. There's 150 years of history, including some delightfully weird stuff in the early days (and latter), inter-generational beef, some tragically untitled heroes, and it produces the best sports footage in the world with furious tackling & collisions, long sprints into goal and the famous speccy catches leaping off of other players' backs. Other than one video about the interchange rules (which barely touched on the game itself) I've never seen it mentioned here, and it seems like a goldmine for videos like this where you step outside the US major league sports. Cheers for all the content.
Serena is still lethal right now. She’s just moody and marred by injuries. Her dominance comes not just from her lethal playstyle and technique, but her willingness to train her physical strength, overcoming her opponents through strong service alone, halfway through her career to avoid long rallies that drains her stamina. Together with her coolheadedness, unlike many of her opponents, she dominated the category. Who knows, she made many comebacks before, we might be under another Serena period once again. Frankly I dislike her dominance, much like Djokovic’s dominance. It made tournaments less exciting.
Serena missed the opportunity to retire on top, Graf didn’t. Next year Williams last slam title will be four years old and she will turn 40. Graf retired at 30 after winning Roland Garros.
Got weirdly emotional at this. Not at all a Tennis fan. Only people I know are the Venus sisters. But just something about an actual child getting to not only compete against their idol but eventually beat them and then end up having an even bigger legacy than they did is something just really damn powerful. Even to have your role model stumble in words at how good you are and eventually become your biggest fan as they are far into retirement. Idk... there is just something very powerful about that.
A German here, that was the times, we had the best female tennis player with Steffi Graf, the best male tennis player with Boris Becker, the best Formula 1 driver with Michael Schumacher, then Jan Ullrich, who wasn’t exactly the worst at cycling either, So the 80s and 90s were a damn good time for German athletes, In golf we had Bernhard Langer, who wasn't particularly bad either, but above all the success and Steffi Graf and Boris Becker made the whole of Germany want to play tennis, I know the waiting times were sometimes several years, until you could also play a tennis court, although e.g. In a village of 10,000 where I grew up, they had two indoor courts and three clay courts.
Hello SB nation. I'm a fan of yours from India and your RUclips series on baseball, basketball and football is the reason I have an interest in these games. But being an Indian, it is disappointing to me that there are no cricket videos such as rewind or beefs. And seeing as your channel is going through a revamp please consider this request. So if and when you decide to make a video on cricket here are a few suggestions: Rewinds 1. The 1983 cricket world cup final 2. The 2007 t20 world cup final 3. The 2011 cricket world cup final 4. The 1999 cricket world cup semifinals 5. The 2019 cricket world cup final 6. The famous Edens Gardens test. Beefs: 1. The India Pakistan rivalry 2. The ashes rivalry 3. The india Australia rivalry. 4. Prasad vs miandad 5. 1980s west indies vs the entire white cricketing world. Also for weird rules: 1. The mankad rule. 2. The bowl out 3. The call back. And many, many more examples. It would please a lot of your fans from India to have their game represented in your stage. Thanking you Yours sincerely Vidish K
It was a pity that Graf injuries made her retire so soon. Even she was not at her peak, she still was very competitive in 1999 and in this case the contrast of styles was amazing to watch. They only played two matches but both were very entertainning and competitive
Uh, maybe because they're both on PEDs? Considering McEnroe had such outbursts and has admitted he was on steroids, though lamely claimed he didn't know what he was taking...maybe Novak and Serena are doping too? Just maybe... Go check out the guy's dialated pupils during matches. Guy is 100% on speed. Not sure what Serena is on, probably taken everything in the book at this point. Women used to retire at 25, she's pushing 40 and still winning. It's absurd!
Great and detailed analysis about those two matches in 1999. especially about Serenasvery impressive improvement in between; but may be a little bit short about Steffi and the status of her game that time: Due to different injuries and health problems (mostly back and knee), Steffi had missed most of 1997 season. This coninued in 1998 - when she finally decided to have a knee surgery. As a consequence, for months Steffi wasnt allowed and able to play or to exercise at all. So its true that she startet in 1999 without having any health problems. But due to that long break, she struggled to reach even average standards. Its pretty good to see in those vids here: usually Steffis forehand was a mighty and almost flat forehand drive, only short above the net. Here its often more a "round" curved stroke with a bit spin - indicating here insecurity. After Grafs success in Paris where she had defeated world numbers 3,2,1 (Davenport / Seles / Hingis), her longtime coach Heinz Günthardt said to the press that all the months before he was afraid that Steffi may be wouldnt ever been able to reach the level of her former game . So its no offense about a really impressively improving Serena to say that Steffi was far from her best when they met in those two official tournaments. In my eyes, the absolutely best match they had was at Honkong Tennis Classics 1999, an exhibition tournament. They met in the semifinals. Its breathtaking! And might give a sort of hint how it would have looked like if both had met in great shape (some highlights here on youtube).
Ultra excited to see some tennis on the channel! Great video! I’d love to see a rewinder on Goran Ivanisevic’s win at Wimbledon as a wildcard or Chang/Lendl upset.
Judah Gordon For Goran it would be the moment of the win, rewinding back to the multiple finals he lost, him getting extended the wild card, and slogging through a tough draw to finally win
Novedrake I just think it’s not an iconic moment with a special thing that happened. Iconic moments for rewinder would be steffi grafs golden slam or the 3 day Wimbledon match in 2010
Judah Gordon eh I think it’d count. Only unseeded wildcard to win the men’s draw and a hell of a story. Personally, I think it’d meet the criteria, others may disagree, and that’s fine. Really, that’s up to Secret Base to decide
Can I suggest 2 videos for each channel? Rewinder: Minneapolis Miracle, Howie Kendrick's Grand Slam vs Dodgers Beef History: Aqib Talib & Michael Crabtree, Jimmy Butler & Andrew Wiggins Collapse: 2015 Bengals, 2012 Detroit Tigers The Worst: The Worst Super Bowl, The Worst MLB Blowout Overlap: Steph Curry & Steve Kerr, Mike Holmgren & Bill Belichick
This is an interesting series. Nice story too. I'm thinking Secret Base has to give viewers the overlap story of Kobe and MJ And if it's not been mentioned or thought of, here's me suggesting that this make the series.
There's a story about Nolan Ryan pitching against Bob Gibson on June 20, 1969... and then much later in Nolan's career, against someone like Roger Clemens on September 7, 1992. Just showing the length of Nolan's career, and the many pitchers that he pitched against in his LONG career. Go for it Secret Base. Make it happen!
Hmmm I would say Serena's game drew more from Monica Seles than from Steffi. I always said that their 1999 Indian Wells match was basically Steffi vs a 17 year old Monica incarnate.
Steffi was about to win this match, the analisis is a bit biased, it only accounts for Serena´s stats but Steffi didn´t play so weil in both matches either and she was far from her prime, besides, both matches were really close, both could have gone either way, true though that Serena at her young age was already good
Soon we'll talk about how the final stretch of Serena's career overlapped with probably the most talented generation of players women's tennis has ever seen, from Kvitova and Halep to Swiatek, Kenin and Gauff.
Would like a series on great sliding doors moments in sports. 1) What would have happened to Federer's GOAT legacy had Soderling not beaten Nadal? 2) What would have happened to LeBron's legacy had Ray Allen not hit his corner three? 3) What would have happened had the Seahawks managed to score from the goal line?
Sounds like a good one still, also like a What if situation. You could easily add what if Bron didnt get the block on iggy What if Aguero didn't score in the last minute of the 2011/12 season What if Hamilton didnt overtake glock in the last lap of the 2008 Brazilian GP Etc
@@brun0lpc it really should the context behind it was crazy i remember watching it a young kid the words is that glock will always give me happiness being a big Hamilton supporter Who would have thought he would have 91 wins now lol
For a brief period of time Ron Artest and Metta World Peace played on the same team.
Their play style was so similar to each other, they were almost like twins
Yes
Thought they were the same person for a bit
The similarities in their games are crazy
🤔 hmmmmmmmmmmm 🤔
Whether it's Overlap or Beef History, I'd really like your guys' take on Wilt and Kareem's careers and brief rivalry. Great content as always!
Skizofronenia
@@massimilianobelloni5613 schizophrenia?
there beef was wilt being jealous of kareem being praised more than him
Do that 1
@@keenanilingan965 Kareem laid him out, on the court and with the written word. Wilt, for as giant as he was physically, did not measure up emotionally.
I'm not a tennis fan, but these videos are so well constructed and written that that doesn't matter. Great work Secret Base crew!
Totally agree
Facts
i just like the video games. topspin, mario tennis, whatever... such fun, more fun than most other sports games
I love the breakdown of tennis matches in this one.
RJ Haney yea as someone who doesn’t watch tennis I still enjoyed thus
Nice ace flag
I remember watching the first match when Williams lost to Graf with my grandfather, a former low-level pro, and he stated then that with the correct discipline Serena could easily go down as the greatest ladies Tennis player ever, because of her power and feet at such a young age...he predicted the future...Serena is the greatest EVER for her to make such adjustments in a 60-day span was unreal.
I personally believe if Venus didn't suffer from her physical disorder that she would have been the best of all-time but yes because of Venus going down Serena really had nobody in her era good enough to consistently beat her.
@@ralx225b Venus was definitely a beast before those injuries slowed her down
@@rickybobby8716 Yep did you know nobody has beaten Serena more times than Venus? And Venus stopped being a top 5 player YEARS ago and she STILL has more career wins against her sister than ANYBODY ELSE.
It’s a real pity when one sees that Venus who won 7 slams and moved like a puma at her peak only managed to stay on the top spot for 2 total weeks 20 years ago.
Federer vs Sampras in 2001 would be a great overlap to do next
Yes
I still remember being in awe at how good this guy I’d never seen before looked.
This was EXACTLY what I was thinking. And Pete and Federer's 5 setter was an improtant moment for the changing of the guard (I was a Sampras fan back then and took it hard)
That moment was HUGE. Sampras still won another slam after that but that gave Federer the momentum to go on arguably the most dominant run in men's tennis ever.
Graf's 1988 Grand Slam was actually a Golden Slam. She also won the Olympic Gold that year. Nobody's ever done that on the men or women's circuit, show how rare it is.
Weak era
@@yussepig6629 witb Martina Navratilova, Gabriela Sabatini, Conchita Martinez, Jana Novotna and a bit later Monica Seles?
@@Mister__Jey Plus Evert, Sanchez, Pierce, Date, Sukova, Fernandez, Mandlikova.
1985-96 are called the Golden Era for a reason.
are there any other channels to learn tennis history and historical players from? (not quite it, but David foster wallace's essay on Tracy Austin is one of the best essays ive ever re- well... listened to)
Is it weird that a video about tennis made me tear up at the end?
This story is so moving, about one player passing the torch to another, with a great spirit of sorority.
Bruh tennis is amazing tf you on
With a nickname like 'Fraulein Forehand', tennis is probably the best profession to pursue
Hamilton - Schumacher overlap would be fun to do since they're tied with F1 GP wins but Hamilton has 2 or 3 good years left in him plus the 5 more races this season with no game-changing rule changes in sight.
This one is good.
Hamilton ∩ Schumacher, or Schumacher ∩ Senna
Senna schumi is better because Hamilton never went against Ferrari schumi
True, but Schumi was a mere back-marker when Senna was World Champion. The overlap was a full 3 seasons from when Williams were beating McLaren until Senna joined Williams as Schumi became the best driver in F1 driving a Benetton-Ford, a few races before Senna's crash at Imola. If the overlap is that long, then we might as well talk about the three seasons Schumi came out of retirement driving for the team that would eventually give Hamilton 5 more World Championships.
Senna ∩ Schumacher ∩ Hamilton
Nah. Senna will always be better
As a German Steffi Graf will always be Germany’s goat, but I grew up seeing the greatness of Serena and her becoming the worlds goat. What a career. One of the stars of my life, that won’t be toppled
Steffi did a calendar slam including the 1988 Olympic gold medal. Serena didnt (did hold all 4 at once but didnt win all in same year). Steffi is better than Serena. So is Margaret Court and Martina. I'd personally rate Chris Evert better since Evert played against tougher opposition for most of her career.
Look at the trash opponents Serena had in the 2nd half of her career. Her slam title was against her sister who was aged 36. Plus I can't take anyone seriously as the goat that lost a grand slam final to Sam "Choker" Stosur.
I agree Serena is the GOAT, she's the Open era slam and olympic gold record holder for a reason, BUT steffi is not far off at all! I miss them both a lot
Nice comment, it's good that we've gotten a new GOAT after every generation
Serena won only 73 of 240 tournaments played. Steffi 107 of 214.
Serena needed 81 slams for 23 titles. Steffi just 54 for 22.
Serena has a 85.6 winning percentage. Steffi had 89.2.
Serena won 3+ slams in 2 years. Steffi un 5.
Serena faltered on the threshold of a Grand Slam. Steffi won the Golden Slam.
Serena won most of her slams against Wozniacki types. Steffi against Navratilova/Seles.
@@econcam8977 Those young boys want the GOAT to be one of their generation.
So cute!
Overlap: Bob Cousy and Oscar Robertson together on the Cincinnati Royals potentially? A rewinder of Raja Bell's game winner against the Clippers, Anthony Bennett getting drafted or Pachulia's foul on Kawhi Leonard would be cool too, great content as always.
Yeah but what about Sir Donald Bradman.
The Pachulia foul altered the NBA landscape in the way that free agency could've never imagined.
@@michaelhall5429 that's the real goat right there
@@bentonlott6272 he's Jordan with nine rings. He's a 45 ppg average across a career. He shoots 96% from the line and drives like Iverson. The Don stands alone.
@@michaelhall5429 99.94... if only he hadn't gotten out for a duck in that last game.
This is such a good sports story and I'd love more like it. A young up and comer overtaking one of the greats on their own way to greatness and without any beef. I hope you do more of these type of overlap in the future.
Erm... Serena hasn't overtaken Graf, most people still consider Graf the goat as she is winning in accolades. Serena will have to make a few more strides to comfortable over take her.
@@matthewdaley746 I don't even watch tennis, I'm just saying the majority consider her the goat.
MoXy
I’m not sure this accurate
@@EpicVideoMaster11 A quick google search told me so I'm sure you can search for it yourself.
MoXy
That’s not how that works lol
There is so much meat on the bone in terms of tennis content, we need more.
I love how Williams looked at Graf's matches when she was a kid, and now Graf watches William's matches now she's retired, lol
This is a great series.
As we grow older our perception of time broadens to encompass entire years, even decades. Yet as a child a single year is large beyond comprehension. Even as a teen we can fit a lot of growth into a month or two so I do not doubt that Serena could see it like back in the day, 6 weeks ago.
Well done, this is such a great series. You told this story with emotion and honour. I truly love it.
This is already one of your best series, and this is an incredible episode. Loved it.
Very cool video of both tennis legends. We, as tennis fans, are so fortunate that we were able to witness actually two overlapping eras where iconic legends competed against each other. A young Steffi Graf vs veterans Martina Navratilova and Chris Evert in the 80’s and a young Serena Williams vs veteran Steffi in the 90’s. We had a glimpse of what could have been an amazing rivalry, where both are supreme athletes who wielded the greatest weapons ever ... Steffi’s forehand vs. Serena’s serve!
That’s why I find Steffi’s tennis career/history amazing because she overlapped in two eras. She competed against legends in Martina and Chris in her youth and a future legend in Serena as a veteran. Steffi’s accomplishments are mind blowing with her 22 grand slams, her 1988 calendar year grand slam plus Olympic gold aka ‘the Golden Grand Slam’, a non-calendar year grand slam between 1993-1994, her record 377 weeks at #1, and the best all-around tennis pro winning 4 or more grand slams on different surfaces... all achieved at the age of 30 prior to her retirement in 1999.
She also had a memorable comeback from major reconstructive knee surgery in 1997 and being away from the tour for a year. If you think about it, it’s a wonderful story-like bookends with her first French Open title in ‘87 and her last FO slam win in ‘99.
Steffi Graf is the equivalent of what we see in the great Roger Federer. His game very much emulates Steffi’s game from his shotmaking to his movement. IMHO, both are the greatest ever!!!
This video makes me truly appreciate those memorable matches in 1999 between Steffi vs Serena! Thank you!!!
No way. Hingis always owned her.
Plus convenient how you leave out her being dominated by seles till monica has her career derailed by a deranged fan of graf. Gtfo. Revisionist history much.
Alex D You’re comment is not accurate at all. Steffi has a head-to-head record of 7 wins vs 2 losses to Martina Hingis so saying Martina owns her is clearly false. Even Steffi’s two losses to Martina were all 3 sets and very close matches.
You’re clearly just trying to rile things up but I will acknowledge one thing. I do believe that if Monica wasn’t stabbed, she would have won more but not necessarily taken away from Steffi’s wins. Monica was great and I wish her tragedy never happened.
…Whoever put this together thank you, nicely done. Serena deserves all her flowers now. This is worthy of being shown on TV.
This legit has one of the most wholesome endings of any sports RUclips video I’ve ever seen.
This is one of the best videos Secret Base (or SB Nation) has ever produced, and it's a damn shame than the view count isn't ten times higher. Brilliant from start to finish.
Probably the two best women's tennis players of all time
Serena is. Graf relied on a stabbed Seles, otherwise she wouldn’t even be top 5.
@GoTeam: Graf had no competition that year. It was pre-Seles and Evert @ Navratilova were over.
Serena had Venus, Henin, Clijsters, Sharapova, Hingis, etc.
No contest. Graf not even top 5.
@GoTeam: Graf didn’t face either Evert or Navratilova to clinch the Slam you buffoon. In fact she was gifted the Semi Final as a decrepit, aged Evert (who would still have beaten Graf) withdrew. Then she played Sabatini in the final, hardly a great of the game lol.
Graf took advantage of aged end-of-era Evert & Navratilova in the pre-Seles era. The same Seles who owned Graf and tennis in 92-93. Graf is way behind Serena, Seles, Evert, Navratilova, Court, and King. They all didn’t depend on stabbed rivals to win.
@@yussepig6629 you can't compare goddess vs Godzilla.
Hingis vs Graf in French open 1999, is a must do video. It´s a classic in tennis with a lot of history in that game!
I love Serena, but Germany is my homeland and Graf was such a huge figure in my childhood, there’s nothing that can top Steffi’s golden slam. And being a 4x grand slam winner. Unbelievable.
@Max E what she did was great but Serena is on a whole other level especially when she peaked. Graf would’ve most likely not had such great success if her biggest rival hadn’t been stabbed and out of play. I’ve seen graf play, graf was a serve and forehand player. Serena has all of those but better and an overall complete game. It’s also hard to point out the different paths that happen, Serena Williams likely would’ve had more slams if it wasn’t for cheating opponents (Justine hennin’s hand in fo 2003) or chair umps and line judges Missing so many calls, )
@Max E actually for you to assume that Serena would’ve lost despite the MANY times she has come back and won after being so close to losing is just silly. Also your comments about beauty when comparing tennis players already implies you have a bias based on looks as opposed to skill which is the only thing that should be discussed. You also didn’t say anything about the us open match against capriati that I mentioned. Hmm, also there was the us open match against clijsters where the line judge incorrectly called a foot fault. Or the us open match against Carlos Rodrigues- err excuse me- Naomi Osaka. Unfortunately for you, the facts are not on your side as Serena Williams matches are far more known than Steffi grafs. Also if you had any basic understanding of tennis. You would know how the Williams sisters changed women’s tennis as of now. Your “watchability” factor just comes across as you prefer to watch steffi graff because she’s what you consider to be better looking. Go do some research if you are willing to learn.
@Max E incorrect. The line judge absolutely didn’t make the correct call. All the replays showed that. You pointing out great moments that graf did doesn’t negate the accomplishments of Serena. You can’t logically tell me that graf would’ve won so much against seles had she not been stabbed in her prime. Also if you are bringing personal incidents into it, Serena had a child, sister got stabbed, suffered multiple life threatening pulmonary embolisms. It’s silly. Also I don’t understand why you are debating the merits of their play when you yourself say you only watch for the aesthetics and not for the skill. Graf is an amazing tennis player, but Serena is better. Graf had a great forehand and serve, Serena had a better serve and forehand, better movement, better backhand, better ground strokes, better net game and far better precision. Serena (and credit to Venus) changed the way the women’s game is played because of their dominance. Your fan vote i. The 2000 when Serena Williams hadn’t matured into top form? Really? That’s your best argument? That’s just silly as well considering in 2000 Serena had won one slam and was years away from playing her best tennis.
@Max E “when did Serena peak?”
Hmm, twice. In 2002-2003 and then again in 2012-2013.
Serena’s first peak was around the same age as Graf’s peak, and then her second peak was past Graf’s retirement age. Even Evert, a longtime Serena critic, said Serena played the best clay court tennis she’s ever seen during the 2013 FO semifinal and final, and clay is Serena’s worst surface.
Serena won 23 grand slams having played 100 less singles tennis matches than Steffi Graf (this is a fact, just look at the records) and on top of that Serena won 2 mixed doubles grand slams and 14 doubles grand slams with 4 Olympic gold, while Steffi spent her time focusing solely on singles. Sorry mate but Serena is the greatest.
Seth, my bro, u r the main reason why I watch basketball a lot more consistently than b4 and also u made me support a team of desperate benchwarmers and old outshaped athletes like the Knicks... Can u do a video about Latrell Sprewell and the 98/99 NY campaign or, more in general, about the 90s Knicks? I know, there is a Collapse video (ofc) about them after that historic 99 playoff run, but it would be so cool and u, as a Knicks’ fan, would describe both stories perfectly
What a time to be growing up and watching tennis. This era left a lifelong impression on me.
I like.. Steffi Graf...my favorit always forever... Steffi Graf amazing
👍👍👍👍👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Play tennis beautiful moves..and dancing... Steffi.. Steffi.. Steffi..🙋 camond Steffi... good.. winner golden Slam..👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍
Jeez Serena was so ferocious when she was just a baby! You can utterly feel her power from her strokes and style! Definitely game changer for so many years! I hope she wins one more grand slam before she retires.
@Ilya Kuryakin hopefully yes
As an amateur tennisplayer who definitely would have tried to become pro if I grew up in the right environment and a fan of both of these women this was an absolute treat to watch and listen to. ❤👍🏿👏🏿
Until watching this video, I never quite understood why so many tennis rallies seemed like two players hitting it directly at each other.
Imagine that Graf's 22 Grand Slams came by age 30; Serena gets there aged 36 or so.
This might be a longshot, but I would be overjoyed to see even a single Secret Base video on Australian Rules Football. There's 150 years of history, including some delightfully weird stuff in the early days (and latter), inter-generational beef, some tragically untitled heroes, and it produces the best sports footage in the world with furious tackling & collisions, long sprints into goal and the famous speccy catches leaping off of other players' backs. Other than one video about the interchange rules (which barely touched on the game itself) I've never seen it mentioned here, and it seems like a goldmine for videos like this where you step outside the US major league sports.
Cheers for all the content.
You can get that when I get my rewinder on japan beating the springboks at the 2015 rugby World Cup.
do Graf's Golden Slam...i feel like its not given enough credit as a sporting achievement
Weak era
The end if her career sounds like Serena rn
If she makes it to another gs final she just needs to convince herself the player on the other side of the net is Maria Sharapova.
Serena is still lethal right now. She’s just moody and marred by injuries. Her dominance comes not just from her lethal playstyle and technique, but her willingness to train her physical strength, overcoming her opponents through strong service alone, halfway through her career to avoid long rallies that drains her stamina. Together with her coolheadedness, unlike many of her opponents, she dominated the category. Who knows, she made many comebacks before, we might be under another Serena period once again. Frankly I dislike her dominance, much like Djokovic’s dominance. It made tournaments less exciting.
Don't count her out yet... Cause she may just.. "Overlapp" 😂😂😂😂
Serena missed the opportunity to retire on top, Graf didn’t.
Next year Williams last slam title will be four years old and she will turn 40. Graf retired at 30 after winning Roland Garros.
@@ItsMinarmy same story for Federer.
I'm a simple man, I see Secret Base uploads, I click
So well done, Seth. You did both players justice.
I dig this because it focuses on the very brief time that I was interested in professional tennis, mid 1990's to the mid 2000's.
A decade is "brief" for you?
Got weirdly emotional at this. Not at all a Tennis fan. Only people I know are the Venus sisters. But just something about an actual child getting to not only compete against their idol but eventually beat them and then end up having an even bigger legacy than they did is something just really damn powerful. Even to have your role model stumble in words at how good you are and eventually become your biggest fan as they are far into retirement. Idk... there is just something very powerful about that.
A German here, that was the times, we had the best female tennis player with Steffi Graf, the best male tennis player with Boris Becker, the best Formula 1 driver with Michael Schumacher, then Jan Ullrich, who wasn’t exactly the worst at cycling either, So the 80s and 90s were a damn good time for German athletes,
In golf we had Bernhard Langer, who wasn't particularly bad either, but above all the success and Steffi Graf and Boris Becker made the whole of Germany want to play tennis, I know the waiting times were sometimes several years, until you could also play a tennis court, although e.g. In a village of 10,000 where I grew up, they had two indoor courts and three clay courts.
Also, a rewinder on Ivanisevic's Wimbledon win is 100% needed.
INCREDIBLE WORK! The real sports fans appreciate y'all
I just found this overlapped playlist, and wish that they would bring things back and make more!
Fantastic video as always. This is the best channel on youtube. Hands down.
FINALLY a tennis video from you guys! You should totally do a video on the dominance of the Big 3 in men’s tennis
Hello SB nation. I'm a fan of yours from India and your RUclips series on baseball, basketball and football is the reason I have an interest in these games. But being an Indian, it is disappointing to me that there are no cricket videos such as rewind or beefs. And seeing as your channel is going through a revamp please consider this request. So if and when you decide to make a video on cricket here are a few suggestions:
Rewinds
1. The 1983 cricket world cup final
2. The 2007 t20 world cup final
3. The 2011 cricket world cup final
4. The 1999 cricket world cup semifinals
5. The 2019 cricket world cup final
6. The famous Edens Gardens test.
Beefs:
1. The India Pakistan rivalry
2. The ashes rivalry
3. The india Australia rivalry.
4. Prasad vs miandad
5. 1980s west indies vs the entire white cricketing world.
Also for weird rules:
1. The mankad rule.
2. The bowl out
3. The call back.
And many, many more examples. It would please a lot of your fans from India to have their game represented in your stage.
Thanking you
Yours sincerely
Vidish K
PLEASE make more tennis videos. Tennis history is so overlooked
It was a pity that Graf injuries made her retire so soon. Even she was not at her peak, she still was very competitive in 1999 and in this case the contrast of styles was amazing to watch.
They only played two matches but both were very entertainning and competitive
they played three. Steffi won at the HongKong semifinal (which wasn't an official WTA tournament but a serious match nevertheless).
Great video guys! loving the new work.
Beef history suggestion: Kobe vs Shaq
@Michael Goff I know I’ve seen it. I still want some beef tho
how hasnt this been done already?
Amazing upload for great story, thanks SB guys!
Anyone else get a Secret ad with Serena in it while watching?😂
serena still needs a French to match Steffi's GOAT career slam x 4
I remember when Serena was a nobody compared to Venus.
Martin Noer yeah but their dad Richard was saying that Serena will be the more successful of both his daughters.
Will never forget how people canned Serena for shouting at the ref while they made excuses for Novak Djokovic hitting a line judge with a ball.
I mean, Djokovic hitting a judge was an accident, I don’t think Serena has the same excuse
Why did you just compare an accident to an incident? I think people made excuses for Williams is more accurate.
Jasper Grau accident or not, he still acted out of frustration. Same thing Serena did. And only one got universally panned.
Uh, maybe because they're both on PEDs? Considering McEnroe had such outbursts and has admitted he was on steroids, though lamely claimed he didn't know what he was taking...maybe Novak and Serena are doping too? Just maybe...
Go check out the guy's dialated pupils during matches. Guy is 100% on speed. Not sure what Serena is on, probably taken everything in the book at this point. Women used to retire at 25, she's pushing 40 and still winning. It's absurd!
@@nayr497 that's just superior genetics.
Go cry in a bowl and stop hating
11:57
Welcome. To a moment in history.
Overlap NFL edition: Joe Montana & Steve Young
Love Serena, but for me Steffi will always be the GOAT. Won 22 GS and she retired at only 30 years old.
Great and detailed analysis about those two matches in 1999. especially about Serenasvery impressive improvement in between; but may be a little bit short about Steffi and the status of her game that time: Due to different injuries and health problems (mostly back and knee), Steffi had missed most of 1997 season. This coninued in 1998 - when she finally decided to have a knee surgery. As a consequence, for months Steffi wasnt allowed and able to play or to exercise at all.
So its true that she startet in 1999 without having any health problems. But due to that long break, she struggled to reach even average standards. Its pretty good to see in those vids here: usually Steffis forehand was a mighty and almost flat forehand drive, only short above the net. Here its often more a "round" curved stroke with a bit spin - indicating here insecurity.
After Grafs success in Paris where she had defeated world numbers 3,2,1 (Davenport / Seles / Hingis), her longtime coach Heinz Günthardt said to the press that all the months before he was afraid that Steffi may be wouldnt ever been able to reach the level of her former game .
So its no offense about a really impressively improving Serena to say that Steffi was far from her best when they met in those two official tournaments.
In my eyes, the absolutely best match they had was at Honkong Tennis Classics 1999, an exhibition tournament. They met in the semifinals. Its breathtaking! And might give a sort of hint how it would have looked like if both had met in great shape (some highlights here on youtube).
When I see a Secret Base video, I click. Secretly though.... I prayed it's a video by Seth Rosenthal
Beef history suggestion: Kobe vs Shaq
Very nice narration and content bro love from Australia 🙌🏾
Steffi was the greatest of her time, and Serena came along and became an even bigger legend. Thanks Secret Base!
@Max E She is.
@Max E I doubt it
With a name like Margaret Court you we're genetically engenered by god to play tenis.
And to hate the gays apparently.
This was beautifully written and well done.
Great video thank you.
You guys are awesome at making such elite-level sports content! You always have my support!
Wow a brilliant video thank you so much.
This new series is fantastic. Also, love the TENNIS content!!
loving these videos and the commentary.
Ultra excited to see some tennis on the channel! Great video! I’d love to see a rewinder on Goran Ivanisevic’s win at Wimbledon as a wildcard or Chang/Lendl upset.
I think that they need a special moment cuz it’s hard to rewind a match
Judah Gordon For Goran it would be the moment of the win, rewinding back to the multiple finals he lost, him getting extended the wild card, and slogging through a tough draw to finally win
Novedrake I just think it’s not an iconic moment with a special thing that happened. Iconic moments for rewinder would be steffi grafs golden slam or the 3 day Wimbledon match in 2010
Judah Gordon eh I think it’d count. Only unseeded wildcard to win the men’s draw and a hell of a story. Personally, I think it’d meet the criteria, others may disagree, and that’s fine. Really, that’s up to Secret Base to decide
Just when I thought the overuse of "super" was getting stupid, we now have "ultra"...great, thanks so much.
I'm really liking this series. Keep it up Secret Base.
Steffi all the life
SB never miss
I would love to see some NASCAR beef, or Overlap. The recent additions to the channel have been outstanding.
Can I suggest 2 videos for each channel?
Rewinder: Minneapolis Miracle, Howie Kendrick's Grand Slam vs Dodgers
Beef History: Aqib Talib & Michael Crabtree, Jimmy Butler & Andrew Wiggins
Collapse: 2015 Bengals, 2012 Detroit Tigers
The Worst: The Worst Super Bowl, The Worst MLB Blowout
Overlap: Steph Curry & Steve Kerr, Mike Holmgren & Bill Belichick
This is an interesting series. Nice story too. I'm thinking Secret Base has to give viewers the overlap story of Kobe and MJ
And if it's not been mentioned or thought of, here's me suggesting that this make the series.
Overlap is a good series. I approve.
Really great video! ❤️
Damn good video and concept. Cheers!
Wud have been great rivalry if Steffi graph had played until 2010..she would have dominated serena
@UCscZzgnbhgPTME09rFPeeAA they have 1-1 h2h i guess..steffi wasn't on her prime
Oscar Robertson and Bill Russell.
The Cincinnati Royals have been largely forgotten, but they were one of the bigger speed bumps for those Celtics.
8:33 Serena eventually had to change her tune after facing Jennifer Walters the following year.
More Serena vids pls ! 🥰
I like the title’s use of the union symbol. Very creative!
There's a story about Nolan Ryan pitching against Bob Gibson on June 20, 1969... and then much later in Nolan's career, against someone like Roger Clemens on September 7, 1992. Just showing the length of Nolan's career, and the many pitchers that he pitched against in his LONG career.
Go for it Secret Base. Make it happen!
Rewinder on Scott Sattler’s tackle against the Roosters in the 2003 NRL Grand Final would be cool to see
Great new series
Yesss more tennis content please!
LOVE. THIS. CHANNEL!!
Hmmm I would say Serena's game drew more from Monica Seles than from Steffi. I always said that their 1999 Indian Wells match was basically Steffi vs a 17 year old Monica incarnate.
Well serena said Seles was her favorite player
Steffi was about to win this match, the analisis is a bit biased, it only accounts for Serena´s stats but Steffi didn´t play so weil in both matches either and she was far from her prime, besides, both matches were really close, both could have gone either way, true though that Serena at her young age was already good
Soon we'll talk about how the final stretch of Serena's career overlapped with probably the most talented generation of players women's tennis has ever seen, from Kvitova and Halep to Swiatek, Kenin and Gauff.
maybe in like 5-10 years
You guys are so good at making content. Seth is my favorite tho.
Now it's happening with Osaka and Serena... circles
Great video. Should've included the Hong-Kong exhibition won by Graf though. So technically 'Faltering' twice*.
A draft video would be good like whether a reminder or a chart party style vid
Rewinder
Would like a series on great sliding doors moments in sports.
1) What would have happened to Federer's GOAT legacy had Soderling not beaten Nadal?
2) What would have happened to LeBron's legacy had Ray Allen not hit his corner three?
3) What would have happened had the Seahawks managed to score from the goal line?
Sounds like a good one still, also like a What if situation.
You could easily add what if Bron didnt get the block on iggy
What if Aguero didn't score in the last minute of the 2011/12 season
What if Hamilton didnt overtake glock in the last lap of the 2008 Brazilian GP
Etc
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 The Hamilton story should have a Rewinder tbh
@@brun0lpc it really should the context behind it was crazy i remember watching it a young kid the words is that glock will always give me happiness being a big Hamilton supporter
Who would have thought he would have 91 wins now lol
Vince, Chris and demar on the raptors
After losing to Lindsay Davenport at Wimbledon the post match interview shows how much of a champion she is