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Ummm I always skip through your Nordvpn ads (I am a happy Windscribe user), so… do you get paid the same amount if I skip through the ad? As in, is it commission only sponsorship? If you lose money when I skip through it I’ll watch it next time, but I’m never going to purchase their product.
This is one I don't understand. Even if the engine is actively stalling, I'm still going to give it the beans. Both of them. Engine lives don't matter.
@@jcrosby4804You really are a sad soul to be THIS desperate for attention. You seriously need to re-evaluate your life after saying something like this. :/
@@jcrosby4804 Sure I would, they even said the captain had a tendency to be overly safe so I would definitely fly with them. People make mistakes, it's inevitable. That doesn't mean what happened makes them terrible pilots or bad people. I'm sure they got some retraining since you know, they Survived. I'm just happy they got to go home to their families, I'm not here to condemn them.
Yes. Engine was reduced to idle power because it seemed to be having problems. But as the plane descends toward the stormy ocean, might it not be time to ask that engine to deliver just a little bit of thrust?
From the NTSB's interview with the captain (docket number: DCA21FA174 - you can find it on their website): "Q. Was there anytime during that flight, from that point when you took over until you guys were in the water, was there any point in that time where you thought, you know what, let me just push the number 1 up just to see if there's anything? Was there -- did that ever go through your mind at all? A. No. Uh-uh. At this point I was wrestling the -- what's it called -- the stall, the -- I've forgotten all these names. The stick shaker. The stick shaker. And I was trying to get the wings level. Q. Okay. A. So my hands were busy. The power has hit the stop and it was there, so I knew I didn't have any more power. That was the only power I had. I didn't -- I never thought about that. Tried to get the wings level. Q. Okay. All right. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure you guys -- you guys ditch in the water at night and you're here to talk to us about it, so I'm trying to learn everything I can from what you were thinking and doing, just -- so I appreciate that. A. Did we screw up? I mean, if we screwed up, you can tell me we screwed up, you know, and then I -- what did we do, you know? And maybe that can help me help you guys." At his point they couldn't tell him as the investigation was still ongoing, but you can tell that he knew what was coming.
@@marcellkovacs5452 When they found out they meat have been embarrassing as heck.. I mean I see how it happened, and I can't say I'd have not missed that too under the circumstances
Before you said "if they had just pushed the thrusters forward, it would have shown" I was thinking the same thing, just push both to confirm. So glad they both survived. The person who reemed the pilot previously, should have been reprimanded. If a pilot feels it's unsafe to take off for any reason, then he made the correct decision.
Yea that is so true. The pilots while they made some mistakes but if it weren't for the reprimand from the company to the captain, the captain most certainly would have turn back as soon as he suspects engine failure. Being reprimanded for being justifiably worried is just bonkers.
I vommented under a few engine failure videos... and still nobody has explained one simple thing to me... If im about to crash... why not firewall ALL engines by default? Even the one which (you think) is damaged....? I mean, what is the worst that could happen? You destroy the engine.... but if you crash its broken too... so no difference... In 90% of all cases you gain at least a bit of thrust and possibly land... I find the SOP "pull it to idle and possibly even shut it down, even if the thrust of the remaining engine is not enough or fades" insanely stupid... Im not a pilot, only a logic thinker... And id love to have this explained to me from a professional...
@@J0nni3I guess it has to do with commercial pilots in general have no technical knowledge at all. They just do what they are trained to do, and if they haven’t trained for the scenario, they fail. This is also why the check lists are so important, and why they should be followed. Just as the chief pilot had told the captain.
My dad was a WWII combat pilot, trained to fly the Wildcat, but by the time he finished flight school, the Corsair had replaced that plane. He was too tall for the first generation Corsair, so the Marines sent him back to flight school in the B25 (Pacific theater) and then helicopters in the Korean war. After that he made his living flying copters off shore from 1953 until 1964, when he mostly stopped flying for a living. Back in 1997 my friend was getting hours as a commercial pilot in a small twin engine plane, a push pull type prop design. One day he as going over some tall mountains and he was at about maximum ceiling. At that time, he had an engine failure and panicked because he was losing altitude, which he needed to clear the mountains. He said he couldn't figure out which one to feather. My dad was there as he was telling us his story. My dad leaned over and said, "Did you think about just pulling back on one of the throttles and listening to the engines? My friend laughed, and said, "Sadly, no." My dad replied, "It happens to even good pilots." Case point is this video.
@@koharumi1 reread the post more carefully. The pilot's father was too tall for the Corsair which was a WWII fighter aircraft. Their was limited room in early military fighter planes for seat/control adjustments, headroom, etc. I don't know that there were official height restrictions then, but generally taller pilots were directed to bombers and transports which were larger aircraft. One veteran I was fortunate to speak with many years ago said that, with some of these fighters, you didn't get into them so much as you put them on. The military has official height requirements for their pilots today, but they are pretty broad. Something like 5'4" to 6'3" unless it has changed. This is mostly for design/performance of the ejection seat.
@@lisanadinebaker5179 I think one of the restrictions is your height sitting down. I know a guy that went to a USAF base for his initial flight physical and failed due to his height sitting. Since this individual was Army National Guard going to fly helicopters he passed.
Given the push pull description, It might’ve been the Skymaster, which has both engines in line so there’s no yaw tendency in an engine failure so there’s no “dead foot dead engine”. To pull back a throttle during critical climb would’ve been risky.
It always surprises me how different aviation is from automotive. As an auto mechanic the first thing I do with a complaint of low-power is to put the hammer down and "see what happens" one of my instructors always had an infamous saying: "if it breaks during the diag it needed it anyway"
An engine failure in a car means you have to call a tow truck and that you're going to have to spend some money to repair or replace the car. An engine failure in a plane (especially a single engine plane) often means you die.
@@russlehman2070 Hundred percent agree, I get the difference. But I got to tell you if my options were crash into the ocean or whack that other throttle wide open and see what happens, training be damned I think I would have given it a try.
i dont get it either my boat has two engines and if one them is running even 100rpm off the other one i can tell immediately, besides having an entire dash of instruments telling you whats going one. apples to oranges i know but how the hell do you not know which engine failed ffs
@@brodeypecha9233 Jet engines are different from combustion engines because the jet engine is basically a open pipe with multiple fans rotating in it in a configuration where one axle is rotating inside an another one. And the fans closer to the fuel entry location are attached to the axle that's rotating around the another axle. And all the rotation is caused by moving air alone. A jet engine is rotating around 10000-20000 rpm during normal operation but the rotation speed is not directly causing the engine thrust which makes diagnosing the failing engine much harder than with combustion engine. Thrust is combination of fan movement and fuel burning. The dials in the cockpit do not show RPM but percentage of the operational range of that specific axle (labeled as N1 and N2, N2 being the axle that rotates around the N1). I think the biggest problem with old engines like in this aircraft is that they didn't have a dial to show engine vibrations. If you're missing parts of the engine, increasing RPM is not okay. Otherwise it should be okay to try to increase the thrust level if all N1, N2 and EGT are below redline like in this accident for the left engine, which was operating just fine. However, if the engine is missing a fan blade, pushing the power level up might cause the whole engine to explode which may seriously damage the wing if you're unlucky enough. Engines are designed to be strong enough to self-contain even in case of an engine explosion (which is not a guarantee, only a design objective) so I would have pushed left engine to higher power instead of ditching into the ocean even if it could potentially explode because that wouldn't be much worse than ditching into the ocean during the night anyway. That said, the pilots were obviously under much higher stress so making this kind of thinking during the incident might have been next to impossible.
I’ve been watching these videos for about a year, and due to the clear, consistent and detailed explanations on this channel, when complex terms or jargon are dropped, I understand them without any issues. I’ve got no interest in being a pilot myself, but I feel like my knowledge level has really been elevated.
Still gives me chills listening to the final ATC communications of this flight, so lucky both pilots survived. Great video as always and congrats on 100 episodes!! 👍
The crew sure were lucky on this one. Without proper visual clues as to their positioning above the water line, it would be extremely difficult to judge how to put her down. With a fair swell and chop they could easily have gone nose first into a rising wave and the outcome would not have been the same. Landing on water is always a very treacherous event, even at the best of circumstances. The Hudson river event was one of a few successful events. And that was a river in daylight.
@@rainscratch In the 50s there was an incident in the Pacific during a flight to the US from Hawaii. They had to ditch in the water. luckily there was a Navy ship nearby and everyone survived. It think it was a Pan-Am flight. I forget the name.
Your name makes me believe you're the troll, but just in case Petter clearly very states they suffered minor injuries but were rescued safely and got interviewd about this event for the investigation.
Hey, 100 episodes! That’s great! I’m both happy and sad that I’ve seen most of them: happy because I enjoyed them, sad because I’m stuck waiting with bated breath for your uploads!😆 Keep up the great work, and thanks so much for all you do! Happy and safe flying!
Congrats! I love the way you explain everything. I'm almost 70, and I'm still fascinated by airplanes. I take my walks at night so I can watch the planes fly by, and try to figure out where they're going. It's awesome. Thank you for explaining everything in such a clear and exciting way. Stay safe . You're in my prayers.
50 years ago, we were taught “Dead foot, Dead engine” to identify the failed engine. Both pilots knew the 1st Officer’s left “live” leg was getting tired from applying rudder pressure.
I’m honestly shocked that two experienced pilots couldn’t work out which had failed, 1 errr 2 err definitely 1, scary how you can build a lot of experience but little common sense
Yea. Just strange. Its nuts to me how often wrong diagnosed engine fails on twin engine planes have occurred considering how much effect a downed or languishing engine tends to have on the behavior of the aircraft. Its almost no different than getting a flat tire in a car....lots of information pointing to the side where the problem is originating. I feel like both pilots in this case put their senses in idle once go time hit, and all the sensible considerations as to the source of their predicament became a distant 2nd to expediting procedures for the return to airport
@@razorfett147 No... they were given IMMEDIATE clearance to the Honolulu runway that had an approach over open water.. No civilians or buildings to endanger. Instead they asked for a vector that took them out to sea "to run checklist".. Which they didn't do obviously. They flew out to sea on the injured engine.. with the good engine at idle and commenced expediting the crash. They were only flying cargo to another Hawaiian Island 30-45 minutes away so they couldn't have been grossly over on fuel/weight.
@@TenGreenRangers The problem was the Chief pilot. Who really sounds like a company many, and didn't really look out for his pilots. Because the Captain was reprimanded by the Chief Pilot, he didn't want to return right away, but instead wanted to "run" the checklist. If this engine failure had happened before the reprimand, he would've landed right away.
For those interested, the EGT on the failed engine rose rapidly because with the high pressure compressor not being driven the high pressure part of the engine isn't high pressure anymore, any pressure in the burn chamber is from the low pressure compressor. With the brayton cycle efficiency is mainly dependent on pressure ratio (not the EPR but the ratio between athmosphere and burn chamber). So with the reduced pressure for the same EPR/thrust to be generated you need to burn much more fuel, leading to excessive EGT.
@@Rasta8889 indeed they do, people would be surprised where they are, hospitals, factories, universities and everywhere in power generation and oil and gas. I had 44 gas turbines at my last work site
@@edmondhung6097 I didn’t say they were more common than other power generation units, simply that people would be surprised how many are used. Natural Gas engines seem to be the most common these days
When it became obvious that they couldn't make the airport with the thrust they had, why would they not advance both throttles? The risks related to high EGTs and trying to force thrust out of an engine they believed was badly damaged would seem to be irrelevant compared to ditching in the ocean in the middle of the night.
It probably didn't help that in their training simulated engine failures were total failures of the affected engine hence it would be silly to mess with the failed engine.
Once the speed had been lost the recovery of the good engine would have been fatal. If they had pushed both throttles to Max since they were below VMC they would have immediately lost control of the airplane as the airplane rolled right.
@@MatthijsvanDuin So its more appropriate to lay your hands in your lap?? What is wrong with people. If you face death you try _everything_, even with smallest possibilities.
You're the only one I'm following for aviation crashes. Your explanations are so clear and positive about safety improvements after each accident. Thank you very much.
@TheMentourPilot_On.Tele-Gram Sorry but as an old frenchy man with a quite poor english, I don't know exactly what "Hit me Up" means on social networks 🤓. Heeeelp! 😉
Thank you so much my friend and sorry for my late reply. It makes me so happy to hear those words and im happy that my videos are seen in the light I intended!
Thank you Petter for those 100 episodes! You have almost singlehandedly reignited my passion for aviation with those videos. After having a close to 15 years career as a software engineer, I've just completed my PPL(A) training and I'm currently awaiting the exam. And I'm not stopping at that!
Hey ! I'm a university student in CS trying to become a software dev and I've become addicted to aviation stories and I'm really interesting in it. You're some sort of a future me
To fly also prompts and feeds the seeking and curiosity gene for continued sanity and faith in the advances in science that make air travel the safest mode of transportation....unless you're a pedestrian in Sweden which is the safest there. You have to keep current which ends complacency and always feeds a consideration of a sceptical POV if anomalies are noticed and proven to be a problem. Petter's narrations are indeed inspiring. I was cabin crew for 3 different carriers and retired.
It’s amazing both pilots survived, ATC was trying to get them to Kalealoa(Barbers Point) which was closer than Honolulu but ditched approximately 2 miles offshore from Kalaeloa, luckily the USCG air station at Kalaeloa and the cutters at Sand Island is very close.
These Pilots were horrible... Given an option of immediately returning to land, they opted to fly out to sea to "run checklist" .. and then didn't run them. They set the good engine to idle.. and tried to use the failed engine to stay aloft. Equally as tragic is the way Pilots everywhere never lifted a voice of criticism ... Only gave them "attaboys" for surviving the crash they helped initiate.
@@TenGreenRangers Immediate returning to land with a single engine failure is almost never the right approach. It can lead to a rushed approach and no time to properly configure the plane for landing, which can lead to a crash. Dual engine failures are in fact exceedingly rare.
@@TenGreenRangers I'm going to assume that you aren't very familiar with standard operating procedures. Even swiss 111 went back out to sea to run checklists. You don't just land the plane immediately once an engine failure occurs. Please refrain from judgement and calling pilots 'horrible', when your commentary indicates you aren't familiar with safe aircraft operation
@@TenGreenRangers no, they were not horrible. first of all they somehow got the plane down in a survivable state on an ocean with 13' swells. that's nearly a miracle in and of itself. secondly, flying out to sea in an emergency is SOP, you don't want a plane to fall down to earth on an apartment complex. this is why sully initially headed for the hudson when he realized he couldn't make it back to the airport. it wasn't because he wanted to land in the hudson, it was because he had a twin engine failure, and until the ATC could give him a place to land, the safest place for the plane to be was over a body of water, not over the densely populated city below. as for the problems, it seems to be a combination of too many years of experience plus too much trust in the copilot, and too little altitude, leading to stress causing a bit of tunnel vision. We should be happy that both pilots lived not calling them bad pilots.
Fortunately I could watch this episode without a heavy heart when I heard you mention the pilots' interviews and knew they had survived. Good job with the details, Petter.
Congrats on the 100th episode I love your videos, and you are the reason why I aspire to be a pilot ❤❤ love the effort and hope you can inspire more budding pilots
Thank you Petter and thank you team behind him. Without many of you we wouldnt be watching this 100th episode. Every 2 weeks I and many others, eagerly await the new upload. I've watched and reawatched them all. To see the growth epsiode by episode is amazing. Fantastic work. I always wish I'd made other career choices that led to the sky. Maybe after the next 100 it will be a new story for me. Heres to another 100 episodes more. Congratulations everyone and many more thanks to you all.
Congratulations on your 100th episode. All amazing productions. The BMI crash also came to my mind when watching this. The unbelievable thing about this crash is that although they thought the No 1 engine had failed they never shut it down, just as well!, and as you said, if at any time they had advanced it just a little bit, they would have made it to the airport; but then again, any landing you can walk away from is a good one, if the plane can be used again, that's a bonus. Respect to such an old engine hanging in there.
First, congratulations on 100 episodes! This is the best aviation channel on RUclips. Also enjoy all of your shorts and IG posts as well. Conformational bias coupled with the directive from the chief pilot doomed this flight. If the pilot had gone with his usual instincts then this incident would have been resolved much more favorably. Looking forward to the next 100 videos!
Thank you and congrats for 100 episodes! Today, I want to share my story of founding your absolutely fantastic channel) I am not a pilot, in fact I'm ukrainian veteran surgeon. I started watching your videos because I like airplanes. That were all the reasons really. But soon I learned that your explanations are extremely encouraging. When you don't know anything about an aircraft, those details sound like they are from an alien starcraft pilot.)) Above all, as I have constant difficulties with sleep, I searched for something calming that I could listen to before sleeping. And suddenly my brain found your voice very calming. For almost a month i've been listen to your videos again and again while falling asleep. Strangely your videos are like a parent's tale before bed for my exausted brain. Thank you. For many calm nights.
Same here. I’m a retired nurse addicted to disasters and solving the puzzle that caused them. I find Petter‘s voice very calming. It’s like the world that’s off the hinges suddenly stops spinning so wildly! Hang in there!
Wow, you made that crystal clear! A really good example of the how good CRM and prescribed use of checklists would have saved the day. Stress then just seems to close down the hole of opportunities. I’m so very glad they lived - I see the importance of saying how many souls and calling coast guard. Great video Petter!
There have been so many cautionary tales of pilots shutting down the wrong engine. You would think it would be tattooed in every pilots mind to verify first!
@High-Alpha - adrenaline has a very powerful effect on the mind, and its two preprogramed responses are RUN or KILL SOMETHING. If neither of those options present themselves, it can be paralyzing. And training can only go so far to mimic a real world occurrence. If you haven't read it, I recommend Kevin Sullivan's "No Man's Land" - his story of how he handled Quantus 72 and its aftermath.
This is the 4th example I can think of on 737 shutting down the wrong engine. That’s amazing After the English wrong engine shut down I’d be awfully sure if I was flying
I'm surprised the NTSB didn't advise pilots to not trust what they "feel" is the failed engine and to always confirm, unless they have a visual on it. The checklist accounts for this but they didn't have time. Or thought they didn't. Multiple factors ate up their time and increased their stress levels. Tough situation.
In the time frame of the incident, I just cannot imagine how the pilot monitoring did not notice that the engine they had assumed was faulty was still running within all the correct parameters on the instruments, while the engine they were using was breaking up as a result of high exhaust gas temperature. Check lists are a useful tool, they are not a bible, so putting them above common sense is a huge mistake. Sadly, many pilots have little knowledge of how an aircraft works and no technical training. The training pilot who suggested not returning to the airport following an early fault was a fool. Finally, when they knew that they were not going to make it to the airport, even if the idling engine was faulty, it would have given them the extra few miles.
If they're anything like my friends are with me... It's just fodder for the next batch of "ribbing". "Well, then, what's wrong with my flying? I have an impeccable record." "Yeah, sure, buddy... Except for that time you ditched us off Hawaii." "You gave me the controls at 20 feet off the g** d*** deck!" "YOU were still the one with the yoke in his hands. YOU crashed the plane!" {probably trading winks with everyone else present} "I want y'all to listen at THIS SH*T! That's how he does people he flies with!" {probably gesturing broadly and then pointing at the other, or flipping him off} "I still haven't crashed us or sank a plane to the bottom of the sea... not once!" "ONLY because you gave me controls at 20 g** d*** feet off the deck! What the f*** am I supposed to do at 20 f***in' FEET?!" "You remember what you kept begging ME... 'Please fly the plane'... Maybe take your own advice there, Tiger!" "F*** YOU! "Nah... that would be f*** you." {still trading winks with everyone who isn't in tears on the floor already} AND the rest of the room crows delightedly at both of them... hahahahaha... The "can't tell his right from his left" jokes would write themselves... practically... Intense situations happen... AND it takes a little while, but most of us bounce back and some time later, we can laugh. Once that happens, we can even make jokes at each other's expense... ;o)
@@dannydaw59 They probably did. I assume that, after the final report was released, they went through additional training and had to be recertified. And they never flew together again because of the lack of good CRM.
If there's one thing I learned from Lemmino's new documentary on the Texas Book Depository, it's that we can't trust our sense of directional hearing. Sounds play tricks on us, and our minds are bad at remembering what we actually heard--especially unexpected sounds. So it's sad that the first officer kept confirming the left engine was the bad one, based on what he thought he initially heard.
My 8 year old son is a big fan of you and have seen all your videos. A short message from him- All your episodes are really interesting and you explain it very nicely. I look forward to meet you one day😘
Congratulations on 100 episodes! You are, by far, my favourite RUclipsr and flying channel. The passion you have for flying, teaching and life-long learning is inspirational and demonstrated so well in your videos. Thank you for everything you do for the flying community.
Congrats on your 100th episode! I'm not a pilot, have never been a pilot, but your vids are always professional, fascinating, educational and informative. Thank you sir, and carry on!
These are great lessons for pilots. I’ve been flying the NG/MAX for over 13 years and we all make mistakes. Thanks for making these great videos and learning materials. Glad both guys made it.
As a pilot I would have thought that as it became clear that they were decending and at stall speed and about to hit the water, then opening both trust levers, regardless of the check lists would have been a good last ditch idea. I mean why not? No 2 might have failed completely but No 1 might have stopped the decent, and corrected their misconception. All your points about CRM are very true, and likewise the maintenance back story. It just felt that the aircraft was flying them not the other way around. Very glad both pilots survived and recovered well. Much to be learnt here. TheDr.
Congratulations on 100 episodes and looking forward to the next 100 ! While watching videos of this incident both by you and others, after having watched various presentations of the British Midlands accident, I couldn't help get a sinking feeling and almost yelling, " No it is the other engine". Yes, its very easy to have 20/20 clarity in an armchair in hindsight.
In those types of accidents I keep wondering why, when they get to the point where they know they are going to crash, they don't gun all the engines regardless of any damage they might have and hope for the best, how much worse than a crash could it get?
@@fuzzy1dk That would require an awareness that you might possibly have a wrong idea in your head regarding which engine is damaged and which is working. If you are absolutely sure that the left engine is completely dead, as these pilots were, the idea to request thrust from the left engine would indeed not cross your mind: it could not only obviously not possibly help in any way, but it might actually make matters even worse, for example by causing that engine to catch fire or explode. If you mean "in general, before crashing, you should always try to spin all engines up" - then i'm not sure that is really such a good idea. Should you really try to spin up an engine that is actually broken, and that you know to be broken, shortly before crashing? Apart from the possible detrimental effect, aren't there more relevant tasks to focus on shortly before crashing, like managing the attitude and the horizontal and vertical speeds as well as possible? Besides, aren't the rules how to deal with *specific* emergencies distilled into *specific* checklists, precisely to resolve such ambiguities what to check & do in which order and under which conditions? In this case, if i understand MentourPilot correctly, the checklist would indeed have resolved the problem (by containing instructions to check both engines in specific ways to avoid misidentification of the problem), but unfortunately, there was too much distraction to ever properly complete that checklist...
@@IngoSchwarze my point was to ignore that the engine is damaged (afaiu it was still at idle, not shut down) once a crash becomes unavoidable, the engine is either going to do nothing and you still crash or something and you might not crash
@@ericscaillet2232 I don't think good pilots are rare. We haven't heard of all the non-accidents by good pilots, and here we see 2 morons not identifying which engine was not working :D Bad pilots are rare, but we see them on youtube.
Definitely kinda crazy to think that there's been 100 episodes, both of more well known events and obscure accidents. Makes me wonder how many more lesser known incidents we still have to cover. It also gives me a new respect for just how many things are working on these beastly great machines at any given time.
It is still mind-blowing to me how neither pilot correctly identified the failed engine. Because like you explain, the "dead foot, dead engine" principle should have clued them from the get-go.
They are like grandpa's age already,so their brain is not that sharp anymore.not unless if they are asians,that 50+ years old seems still young due to lifestyle and quality of foods they eat in asia,especially on a poor country part of asia.
I remember when this hit the news and being grateful that the flight crew survived the ditching. Thanks for the analysis of very much a human factors case. In my humble opinion these are the most applicable to those of us who don't have the office views you do ☺️. Gotta admit though, I was surprised to hear it was a Jurassic - how many of those are still in service?? That's a lot of time and cycles! (Thinks about the Aloha flight that lost the roof.) Thanks again!!
there are plenty of good pilot youtubers who make similar videos to yours, however, you're my favorite among them all as you're very technical and your videos are just literal perfect. very interesting and fun to watch and comforting to know what happens behind that closed door. please keep it up and try to upload more content as i'm already addicted to your channel and watched ALL your videos on repeat!
Always on top of the game... I wish Peter had been my physics and mathematics teacher; he is just a vibe you can listen to. Because of the way you explain every moment of the story and the airline fundamentals, procedures, and responsibilities, it sticks to your head so well that you don't want to miss the next lesson or episode. Loyal mentour fun from Kenya
I'm very familiar with the UK Kegworth crash, it was one of the Air Crash Investigation/Mayday episodes I showed all our students at our MPL academy in the middle East, before I left. The question that came right to my mind was the quality of the pilots' simulator training. This incident should have been a doddle to resolve safely, but the pilots fluffed it totally. They appeared reactive, rather than proactive, by not sticking to SOPs. Just my 2 cents worth.
The issue there was made much worse by the altered gauges of that model. They where small, hard to read, and very different to what they'd trained ion and sued previously. Particularly during severe vibration. There were also some other design changes that happened they were unaware of that factored in. In a way it's the grandfather to the 737 MAX mess as that crash, (kegworth), was the one that brought in the need for additional training on any aircraft modification above a certain level. So with the MAX boeing did everything they could to dodge that requirement which came back and bit them on the bum. Though the airlines deserve some blame too as Boeing did highlight the new system as somthing the pilots needed a basic briefing on and not all airlines did it so some of the poor crews caught up in it had no idea how to turn it off.
Indeed - there was at no point a structured way of problem-solving, what resulted in confirmation bias. They had simply good luck to survive. Fortunately it was in opposite to the Kegworth Disaster a Cargo Aircraft, so only the two Pilots on board.
Wow, that is scary how easily this accident could have been avoided. I am still shocked why they didnt goose the left throttle, especially toward the end when there was nothing left to lose.....
@@Potato-dx5mc I suppose its something they must get specifically trained against, because both engines were still *running* all the way into the water - just neither thought to see if they could get just a little more thrust
Honestly I was gonna say that everything the pilots did makes sense to me, except for not trying to get at least something out of engine 1 when it became clear that they need more power. However, in the last few minutes of the video we learn that the pilots were used to the faulty engine just completely shutting off and therefore subconsciously knew it was no use. I find it interesting how their experience with the situation is what made them miss the best chance for resolving it.
Petter I love your videos for the complete details you give in the emergency / crash and the reasons why. I find it hard to believe how many plane crashes are actually pilot error / misunderstandings but I guess we are all human and make mistakes. Great video keep them coming!
Congrats on the 100th episode Petter. Thanks so much for the great entertainment but also the amazing lessons that student pilots like myself can learn in terms of CRM and stress management. These videos have lessons I believe all pilots can and should learn from.
You explain everything so well, remarkably eloquent about something that can become really confusing to someone who doesn’t know a lot about planes or pilots 👍🏼
Your engine animation in the beginning calls the low pressure turbine that drives the low pressure compressor "low pressure compressor" instead of low pressure turbine. This confused me for a sec, wondering why you would have a compressor behind the turbine :D
This confused me too. The narration is also unclear - Petter correctly states that the HP turbine stage drives the HP compressor stages and the LP turbine stages power the LP compressor stages, but then when the animation begins he states that the single HP turbine stage drives the compressors (plural). I thought I had missed something!
I think company culture may have hampered the captain. He was going against his normal standards and training when taking off with high engine temps. So by lowering his standards, he may have second-guessed his instincts or lost his bearings altogether.
This happens in almost all jobs. There is a boss or management above that cares about their bottom line more than safety. Not always, but often enough that we hear about mistakes being made and corners cut all the time.
I agree, starting to second-guess your decision-making at a critical moment can be disastrous. The captain's first instinct to just return to the airport immediately after an engine failure might not have been procedure, but it wasn't the wrong call by any means, just slightly reactive/cautious. It would certainly have been better than this second-guessing and trying to do the procedure, but failing
I remember reading about this when it happened and being amazed the pilots actually survived a night-time ocean ditching in a 737. Pretty lucky the USCG was so close by, but at least they survived.
Guess it kind of ended up being a good thing they were going so slow. The fact that they were both able to swim away from this has got to be pretty rare.
100 EPISODES! TY for all you’ve done & provided for us Mentor Pilot…You’re an outstanding Educator, Communicator, and Story Teller…May GOD Bless you and guide your Steps!
They are not the first pilots to mistake which engine is out and crash with a good engine idling. I can imagine how difficult it would be to go back and question which engine is out once the error was established in mind.
Your videos are helping me get through a very hard time. Mom also immigrant moved in because cancer , having to still run a business manage disability and most of all parent to two small kids on my own in a country im not from… it’s not easy and I can lack situational awareness , heh… but no just seeing people function under much more intense responsibility is … something to hold onto thank you
I play a lot of MSFS2020 and your videos are excellent to replicate a similar situation, this makes the gameplay very immersive as I use the same plane airports and failures, your videos are the best and the passengers who fly in your plane couldn't be in safer hands if a situation occurred. Thanks
Congrats on a hundred episodes, and thank you for these incredibly illuminating reports. I greatly appreciate every one of them and hope to hear much more of your expertise.
Damn.. really cool that they survived. It's just so rarely the case, given the speeds involved. Impacts at those speeds tend to make even the strongest materials quite maliable. "Pilot" is a career where mistakes can be rather.... Unforgiving.
@@MentourPilot We learned CRM from aviation, which we call Crisis Resource Management (as we work in a team with more than 2 people). It has 4 components: Situational Awareness, Task Prioritisation & Allocation, Team Work, and Decision Making. We also use Checklists to enhance patient care and safety. For example, to prevent surgeon operating on the wrong side of the body. Like flying, anaesthesia also has 3 phases: the Take Off phase (induction of anaesthesia and insertion of breathing device), Cruise phase (we monitor the patient and set the ventilator on “auto pilot”, the Landing phase (emergence from anaesthesia and extubation). The Take Off phase is also most dangerous for us. Edit: we also encounter equipment problems and failures, but we are trained to use other clinical cues (which unfortunately was not available to the pilots in this episode as they flew away from the lights).
Congrats on the 100 videos! I more or less watched them all - and enjoyed every single one of them 😁👍🏼 Keep making these great videos, you're amazing at explaining things and it helped me so much, to overcome my fear of flying! 🥰 Tack så mycket 😊
Congrats on 100 episodes u really have taught me so much about aviation and a lot of other interesting things. Just earlier today I caught myself having confirmation bias and I thought of you. Really great channel. :)
Loving the video while sipping from my complementary “Mentour” cup! Really loved the high quality animations in this one, from the closeups of the aged flight deck panels to the illustration of the engines internal workings - very nice!
Hi! I'm a nervous flyer and I just wanted to say thank you for your videos, the end of each one always makes me so reassured that the same accident won't (or are really unlikely to) happen again. Your videos have really really helped me.
In the end it’s simple: aircraft are replaceable, cargo is replaceable, human life is not. Not only did these two men get to go home to their loved ones, their post-crash testimonies, an invaluable resource many of the worst air crash investigations, by their very own nature do not have, and an honest assessment of the mistakes they made and why they made them, with the crucial understanding that _any_ pilot can and will make mistakes, will save even more lives in the future!
Just have to say absolutely amazing job on all these videos! I've been watching for a bit now and have to say that the quality you and your team put into these videos is insanely good and very much appreciated! Thanks for all the work you put into these videos and sharing these important stories with us!
Get Your Exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ nordvpn.com/pilot It's risk-free with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee! Every purchase of 2 years plan will receive +4 bonus months on top
Thanks for making these amazing videos
Nord VPN is not good at all.
Ummm I always skip through your Nordvpn ads (I am a happy Windscribe user), so… do you get paid the same amount if I skip through the ad? As in, is it commission only sponsorship? If you lose money when I skip through it I’ll watch it next time, but I’m never going to purchase their product.
and there is only 1 free month, not 4!!!
This is one I don't understand. Even if the engine is actively stalling, I'm still going to give it the beans. Both of them.
Engine lives don't matter.
I'm a simple man. I see a mentour pilot upload, I neglect my responsibilities.
exactly why im here
Ooo this hits home!
Join the club
Yep! The world can wait.....
@@eskinpaso can my booked flight… 🫣
I'm so happy the pilots survived! A nighttime water ditching is almost a death sentence.
I always fly Cargo planes, ngl@@jcrosby4804
@@jcrosby4804 Boy, did I ever read a non-classy response after two humans were survivors of grave danger.
@@jcrosby4804 Let me get this straight:
Someone survives a deadly crash and you ATTACK them?
@@jcrosby4804You really are a sad soul to be THIS desperate for attention. You seriously need to re-evaluate your life after saying something like this. :/
@@jcrosby4804 Sure I would, they even said the captain had a tendency to be overly safe so I would definitely fly with them. People make mistakes, it's inevitable. That doesn't mean what happened makes them terrible pilots or bad people. I'm sure they got some retraining since you know, they Survived. I'm just happy they got to go home to their families, I'm not here to condemn them.
Would love to hear what the pilots said when they were first told that they had left a completely functional engine at idle the entire time.
Yes.
Engine was reduced to idle power because it seemed to be having problems. But as the plane descends toward the stormy ocean, might it not be time to ask that engine to deliver just a little bit of thrust?
From the NTSB's interview with the captain (docket number: DCA21FA174 - you can find it on their website):
"Q. Was there anytime during that flight, from that point when you took over until you guys were in the water, was there any point in that time where you thought, you know what, let me just push the number 1 up just to see if there's anything? Was there -- did that ever go through your mind at all?
A. No. Uh-uh. At this point I was wrestling the -- what's it called -- the stall, the -- I've forgotten all these names. The stick shaker. The stick shaker. And I was trying to get the wings level.
Q. Okay.
A. So my hands were busy. The power has hit the stop and it was there, so I knew I didn't have any more power. That was the only power I had. I didn't -- I never thought about that. Tried to get the wings level.
Q. Okay. All right. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure you guys -- you guys ditch in the water at night and you're here to talk to us about it, so I'm trying to learn everything I can from what you were thinking and doing, just -- so I appreciate that.
A. Did we screw up? I mean, if we screwed up, you can tell me we screwed up, you know, and then I -- what did we do, you know? And maybe that can help me help you guys."
At his point they couldn't tell him as the investigation was still ongoing, but you can tell that he knew what was coming.
@@marcellkovacs5452
When they found out they meat have been embarrassing as heck.. I mean I see how it happened, and I can't say I'd have not missed that too under the circumstances
My guess it that their sentence started with a four letter word.
Given that they both survived....
I'm here laughing my azz off 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Before you said "if they had just pushed the thrusters forward, it would have shown" I was thinking the same thing, just push both to confirm. So glad they both survived. The person who reemed the pilot previously, should have been reprimanded. If a pilot feels it's unsafe to take off for any reason, then he made the correct decision.
Yea that is so true. The pilots while they made some mistakes but if it weren't for the reprimand from the company to the captain, the captain most certainly would have turn back as soon as he suspects engine failure.
Being reprimanded for being justifiably worried is just bonkers.
This is just incompetent diagnosing
Exactly. If there's any question to the safety of the flight, then you abort. "It's probably gonna be fine" isn't good enough
I vommented under a few engine failure videos... and still nobody has explained one simple thing to me...
If im about to crash... why not firewall ALL engines by default? Even the one which (you think) is damaged....?
I mean, what is the worst that could happen? You destroy the engine.... but if you crash its broken too... so no difference...
In 90% of all cases you gain at least a bit of thrust and possibly land...
I find the SOP "pull it to idle and possibly even shut it down, even if the thrust of the remaining engine is not enough or fades" insanely stupid...
Im not a pilot, only a logic thinker...
And id love to have this explained to me from a professional...
@@J0nni3I guess it has to do with commercial pilots in general have no technical knowledge at all. They just do what they are trained to do, and if they haven’t trained for the scenario, they fail. This is also why the check lists are so important, and why they should be followed. Just as the chief pilot had told the captain.
I'm really impressed by the Coast Guard and other responding agencies in rescuing them so quickly!
Dude forreal. As a tactical aviator, I think the Coast Guard are complete badasses! They are always on point and ready and professional.
They ditched literally 2 miles from Oahu Coastguard airfield. If it was day time, Coast guard office could see their 737
Ok? What about the pilots you dope.
My dad was a WWII combat pilot, trained to fly the Wildcat, but by the time he finished flight school, the Corsair had replaced that plane. He was too tall for the first generation Corsair, so the Marines sent him back to flight school in the B25 (Pacific theater) and then helicopters in the Korean war. After that he made his living flying copters off shore from 1953 until 1964, when he mostly stopped flying for a living. Back in 1997 my friend was getting hours as a commercial pilot in a small twin engine plane, a push pull type prop design. One day he as going over some tall mountains and he was at about maximum ceiling. At that time, he had an engine failure and panicked because he was losing altitude, which he needed to clear the mountains. He said he couldn't figure out which one to feather. My dad was there as he was telling us his story. My dad leaned over and said, "Did you think about just pulling back on one of the throttles and listening to the engines? My friend laughed, and said, "Sadly, no." My dad replied, "It happens to even good pilots." Case point is this video.
How was this person too tall for the war propeller plane?
@@koharumi1 reread the post more carefully. The pilot's father was too tall for the Corsair which was a WWII fighter aircraft. Their was limited room in early military fighter planes for seat/control adjustments, headroom, etc. I don't know that there were official height restrictions then, but generally taller pilots were directed to bombers and transports which were larger aircraft. One veteran I was fortunate to speak with many years ago said that, with some of these fighters, you didn't get into them so much as you put them on.
The military has official height requirements for their pilots today, but they are pretty broad. Something like 5'4" to 6'3" unless it has changed. This is mostly for design/performance of the ejection seat.
@@lisanadinebaker5179 thanks for explaining why he was too tall for the war propeller plane.
@@lisanadinebaker5179 I think one of the restrictions is your height sitting down. I know a guy that went to a USAF base for his initial flight physical and failed due to his height sitting. Since this individual was Army National Guard going to fly helicopters he passed.
Given the push pull description, It might’ve been the Skymaster, which has both engines in line so there’s no yaw tendency in an engine failure so there’s no “dead foot dead engine”. To pull back a throttle during critical climb would’ve been risky.
It always surprises me how different aviation is from automotive. As an auto mechanic the first thing I do with a complaint of low-power is to put the hammer down and "see what happens" one of my instructors always had an infamous saying: "if it breaks during the diag it needed it anyway"
An engine failure in a car means you have to call a tow truck and that you're going to have to spend some money to repair or replace the car. An engine failure in a plane (especially a single engine plane) often means you die.
@@russlehman2070 Hundred percent agree, I get the difference. But I got to tell you if my options were crash into the ocean or whack that other throttle wide open and see what happens, training be damned I think I would have given it a try.
@@johnnyjoseph1389 F%ck yeah , plant boot or sink down to the water ,,IN the dark v,,f%ck that,,
i dont get it either my boat has two engines and if one them is running even 100rpm off the other one i can tell immediately, besides having an entire dash of instruments telling you whats going one. apples to oranges i know but how the hell do you not know which engine failed ffs
@@brodeypecha9233 Jet engines are different from combustion engines because the jet engine is basically a open pipe with multiple fans rotating in it in a configuration where one axle is rotating inside an another one. And the fans closer to the fuel entry location are attached to the axle that's rotating around the another axle. And all the rotation is caused by moving air alone.
A jet engine is rotating around 10000-20000 rpm during normal operation but the rotation speed is not directly causing the engine thrust which makes diagnosing the failing engine much harder than with combustion engine. Thrust is combination of fan movement and fuel burning.
The dials in the cockpit do not show RPM but percentage of the operational range of that specific axle (labeled as N1 and N2, N2 being the axle that rotates around the N1).
I think the biggest problem with old engines like in this aircraft is that they didn't have a dial to show engine vibrations. If you're missing parts of the engine, increasing RPM is not okay. Otherwise it should be okay to try to increase the thrust level if all N1, N2 and EGT are below redline like in this accident for the left engine, which was operating just fine. However, if the engine is missing a fan blade, pushing the power level up might cause the whole engine to explode which may seriously damage the wing if you're unlucky enough.
Engines are designed to be strong enough to self-contain even in case of an engine explosion (which is not a guarantee, only a design objective) so I would have pushed left engine to higher power instead of ditching into the ocean even if it could potentially explode because that wouldn't be much worse than ditching into the ocean during the night anyway.
That said, the pilots were obviously under much higher stress so making this kind of thinking during the incident might have been next to impossible.
I’ve been watching these videos for about a year, and due to the clear, consistent and detailed explanations on this channel, when complex terms or jargon are dropped, I understand them without any issues. I’ve got no interest in being a pilot myself, but I feel like my knowledge level has really been elevated.
I seriously laughed at pun you probably didn't even mean to make. I'm actually such a child.
same here...also the timing. wow lol.
My knowledge has been elevated too!
@@countcock5694 same 😅
Still gives me chills listening to the final ATC communications of this flight, so lucky both pilots survived. Great video as always and congrats on 100 episodes!! 👍
The crew sure were lucky on this one. Without proper visual clues as to their positioning above the water line, it would be extremely difficult to judge how to put her down. With a fair swell and chop they could easily have gone nose first into a rising wave and the outcome would not have been the same. Landing on water is always a very treacherous event, even at the best of circumstances. The Hudson river event was one of a few successful events. And that was a river in daylight.
@@rainscratch In the 50s there was an incident in the Pacific during a flight to the US from Hawaii. They had to ditch in the water. luckily there was a Navy ship nearby and everyone survived. It think it was a Pan-Am flight. I forget the name.
@BiggaNigga69 No they didn't. Why would you make such a comment..
Your name makes me believe you're the troll, but just in case Petter clearly very states they suffered minor injuries but were rescued safely and got interviewd about this event for the investigation.
were the pilots trans people? since they worked for TransAir. glam makeup etc?
Hey, 100 episodes! That’s great! I’m both happy and sad that I’ve seen most of them: happy because I enjoyed them, sad because I’m stuck waiting with bated breath for your uploads!😆 Keep up the great work, and thanks so much for all you do! Happy and safe flying!
Glad you like them!
Im the same😅
Congrats! I love the way you explain everything. I'm almost 70, and I'm still fascinated by airplanes. I take my walks at night so I can watch the planes fly by, and try to figure out where they're going. It's awesome. Thank you for explaining everything in such a clear and exciting way. Stay safe . You're in my prayers.
50 years ago, we were taught “Dead foot, Dead engine” to identify the failed engine. Both pilots knew the 1st Officer’s left “live” leg was getting tired from applying rudder pressure.
I’m honestly shocked that two experienced pilots couldn’t work out which had failed, 1 errr 2 err definitely 1, scary how you can build a lot of experience but little common sense
Yea. Just strange. Its nuts to me how often wrong diagnosed engine fails on twin engine planes have occurred considering how much effect a downed or languishing engine tends to have on the behavior of the aircraft. Its almost no different than getting a flat tire in a car....lots of information pointing to the side where the problem is originating.
I feel like both pilots in this case put their senses in idle once go time hit, and all the sensible considerations as to the source of their predicament became a distant 2nd to expediting procedures for the return to airport
@@razorfett147 No... they were given IMMEDIATE clearance to the Honolulu runway that had an approach over open water.. No civilians or buildings to endanger. Instead they asked for a vector that took them out to sea "to run checklist".. Which they didn't do obviously. They flew out to sea on the injured engine.. with the good engine at idle and commenced expediting the crash. They were only flying cargo to another Hawaiian Island 30-45 minutes away so they couldn't have been grossly over on fuel/weight.
@@TenGreenRangers The problem was the Chief pilot. Who really sounds like a company many, and didn't really look out for his pilots. Because the Captain was reprimanded by the Chief Pilot, he didn't want to return right away, but instead wanted to "run" the checklist. If this engine failure had happened before the reprimand, he would've landed right away.
CRM fell apart.
That was the break in the chain that negated the redundancy of twin engines.
For those interested, the EGT on the failed engine rose rapidly because with the high pressure compressor not being driven the high pressure part of the engine isn't high pressure anymore, any pressure in the burn chamber is from the low pressure compressor. With the brayton cycle efficiency is mainly dependent on pressure ratio (not the EPR but the ratio between athmosphere and burn chamber). So with the reduced pressure for the same EPR/thrust to be generated you need to burn much more fuel, leading to excessive EGT.
Thanks Rasta
Fascinating information
Do you work in aviation ?
@@wallybingbang4350 No just a general interest in thermodynamics. Gas turbines have stationary applications as well.
@@Rasta8889 indeed they do, people would be surprised where they are, hospitals, factories, universities and everywhere in power generation and oil and gas. I had 44 gas turbines at my last work site
@@anethers7545 Isn't huge 2 stoke diesel more common?
@@edmondhung6097 I didn’t say they were more common than other power generation units, simply that people would be surprised how many are used.
Natural Gas engines seem to be the most common these days
Congratulations Petter on 100! The quality of your uploads just gets better and better.
Thank you! We try
You’re better than Netflix
Thank you! My team and I are working as hard as we can to keep improving our output. Glad that you like it! 💕
When it became obvious that they couldn't make the airport with the thrust they had, why would they not advance both throttles? The risks related to high EGTs and trying to force thrust out of an engine they believed was badly damaged would seem to be irrelevant compared to ditching in the ocean in the middle of the night.
You're correct, they should have.
Or at least try splitting the throttles in favor of pushing up the engine that wasn't showing the super hot EGT
It probably didn't help that in their training simulated engine failures were total failures of the affected engine hence it would be silly to mess with the failed engine.
Once the speed had been lost the recovery of the good engine would have been fatal. If they had pushed both throttles to Max since they were below VMC they would have immediately lost control of the airplane as the airplane rolled right.
@@MatthijsvanDuin So its more appropriate to lay your hands in your lap??
What is wrong with people. If you face death you try _everything_, even with smallest possibilities.
You're the only one I'm following for aviation crashes. Your explanations are so clear and positive about safety improvements after each accident. Thank you very much.
Bro u gave money and he didnt heart or see man lol sorry😂❤
@TheMentourPilot_On.Tele-Gram Sorry but as an old frenchy man with a quite poor english, I don't know exactly what "Hit me Up" means on social networks 🤓.
Heeeelp! 😉
Don't ignore Blancolirio, he also does an excellent job.
@@yankeetango Of course, you're right, but for me it's not actually the same level. Thx for your interest.
Thank you so much my friend and sorry for my late reply. It makes me so happy to hear those words and im happy that my videos are seen in the light I intended!
Thank you Petter for those 100 episodes! You have almost singlehandedly reignited my passion for aviation with those videos. After having a close to 15 years career as a software engineer, I've just completed my PPL(A) training and I'm currently awaiting the exam. And I'm not stopping at that!
Hey ! I'm a university student in CS trying to become a software dev and I've become addicted to aviation stories and I'm really interesting in it. You're some sort of a future me
I just wanted to stop by and say absolutely good on you, it takes courage to follow your dreams :)
To fly also prompts and feeds the seeking and curiosity gene for continued sanity and faith in the advances in science that make air travel the safest mode of transportation....unless you're a pedestrian in Sweden which is the safest there.
You have to keep current which ends complacency and always feeds a consideration of a sceptical POV if anomalies are noticed and proven to be a problem. Petter's narrations are indeed inspiring. I was cabin crew for 3 different carriers and retired.
It’s amazing both pilots survived, ATC was trying to get them to Kalealoa(Barbers Point) which was closer than Honolulu but ditched approximately 2 miles offshore from Kalaeloa, luckily the USCG air station at Kalaeloa and the cutters at Sand Island
is very close.
These Pilots were horrible... Given an option of immediately returning to land, they opted to fly out to sea to "run checklist" .. and then didn't run them. They set the good engine to idle.. and tried to use the failed engine to stay aloft. Equally as tragic is the way Pilots everywhere never lifted a voice of criticism ... Only gave them "attaboys" for surviving the crash they helped initiate.
@@TenGreenRangers Immediate returning to land with a single engine failure is almost never the right approach. It can lead to a rushed approach and no time to properly configure the plane for landing, which can lead to a crash. Dual engine failures are in fact exceedingly rare.
@@TenGreenRangers I'm going to assume that you aren't very familiar with standard operating procedures. Even swiss 111 went back out to sea to run checklists. You don't just land the plane immediately once an engine failure occurs. Please refrain from judgement and calling pilots 'horrible', when your commentary indicates you aren't familiar with safe aircraft operation
@@TenGreenRangers no, they were not horrible. first of all they somehow got the plane down in a survivable state on an ocean with 13' swells. that's nearly a miracle in and of itself. secondly, flying out to sea in an emergency is SOP, you don't want a plane to fall down to earth on an apartment complex. this is why sully initially headed for the hudson when he realized he couldn't make it back to the airport. it wasn't because he wanted to land in the hudson, it was because he had a twin engine failure, and until the ATC could give him a place to land, the safest place for the plane to be was over a body of water, not over the densely populated city below.
as for the problems, it seems to be a combination of too many years of experience plus too much trust in the copilot, and too little altitude, leading to stress causing a bit of tunnel vision.
We should be happy that both pilots lived not calling them bad pilots.
There’s something about incidents and accidents where I hear that people survived that just make me very happy
Fortunately I could watch this episode without a heavy heart when I heard you mention the pilots' interviews and knew they had survived. Good job with the details, Petter.
Hearing about a successful water ditching is so rare. This is amazing.
And at night too, incredible!
Congrats on the 100th episode I love your videos, and you are the reason why I aspire to be a pilot ❤❤ love the effort and hope you can inspire more budding pilots
Thanks a ton! That’s what I’m trying to do!
I'm a former recreational pilot. The explanations and details of these shows are extraordinary! Kudus to you!!! Db
Thank you Petter and thank you team behind him. Without many of you we wouldnt be watching this 100th episode. Every 2 weeks I and many others, eagerly await the new upload. I've watched and reawatched them all. To see the growth epsiode by episode is amazing. Fantastic work. I always wish I'd made other career choices that led to the sky. Maybe after the next 100 it will be a new story for me. Heres to another 100 episodes more. Congratulations everyone and many more thanks to you all.
Congratulations on your 100th episode. All amazing productions.
The BMI crash also came to my mind when watching this. The unbelievable thing about this crash is that although they thought the No 1 engine had failed they never shut it down, just as well!, and as you said, if at any time they had advanced it just a little bit, they would have made it to the airport; but then again, any landing you can walk away from is a good one, if the plane can be used again, that's a bonus.
Respect to such an old engine hanging in there.
... or swim away from 😎
@@donnamauer3215 Yes. Eventually they crashed not only their Aircraft but also their Airline - Transair went out of business after this event.
First, congratulations on 100 episodes! This is the best aviation channel on RUclips. Also enjoy all of your shorts and IG posts as well.
Conformational bias coupled with the directive from the chief pilot doomed this flight. If the pilot had gone with his usual instincts then this incident would have been resolved much more favorably.
Looking forward to the next 100 videos!
Thank you for the nice words!
Thank you and congrats for 100 episodes!
Today, I want to share my story of founding your absolutely fantastic channel)
I am not a pilot, in fact I'm ukrainian veteran surgeon. I started watching your videos because I like airplanes. That were all the reasons really. But soon I learned that your explanations are extremely encouraging. When you don't know anything about an aircraft, those details sound like they are from an alien starcraft pilot.))
Above all, as I have constant difficulties with sleep, I searched for something calming that I could listen to before sleeping. And suddenly my brain found your voice very calming.
For almost a month i've been listen to your videos again and again while falling asleep. Strangely your videos are like a parent's tale before bed for my exausted brain.
Thank you. For many calm nights.
Same here. I’m a retired nurse addicted to disasters and solving the puzzle that caused them. I find Petter‘s voice very calming. It’s like the world that’s off the hinges suddenly stops spinning so wildly! Hang in there!
Wow, you made that crystal clear! A really good example of the how good CRM and prescribed use of checklists would have saved the day. Stress then just seems to close down the hole of opportunities. I’m so very glad they lived - I see the importance of saying how many souls and calling coast guard. Great video Petter!
Strong agreement from me!
@officialMentourPilot_ scam!!
There have been so many cautionary tales of pilots shutting down the wrong engine. You would think it would be tattooed in every pilots mind to verify first!
@High-Alpha - adrenaline has a very powerful effect on the mind, and its two preprogramed responses are RUN or KILL SOMETHING. If neither of those options present themselves, it can be paralyzing. And training can only go so far to mimic a real world occurrence.
If you haven't read it, I recommend Kevin Sullivan's "No Man's Land" - his story of how he handled Quantus 72 and its aftermath.
This is the 4th example I can think of on 737 shutting down the wrong engine. That’s amazing
After the English wrong engine shut down I’d be awfully sure if I was flying
I'm surprised the NTSB didn't advise pilots to not trust what they "feel" is the failed engine and to always confirm, unless they have a visual on it. The checklist accounts for this but they didn't have time. Or thought they didn't. Multiple factors ate up their time and increased their stress levels. Tough situation.
I'm surprised simulators don't have a partial failure option.
In the time frame of the incident, I just cannot imagine how the pilot monitoring did not notice that the engine they had assumed was faulty was still running within all the correct parameters on the instruments, while the engine they were using was breaking up as a result of high exhaust gas temperature.
Check lists are a useful tool, they are not a bible, so putting them above common sense is a huge mistake. Sadly, many pilots have little knowledge of how an aircraft works and no technical training.
The training pilot who suggested not returning to the airport following an early fault was a fool.
Finally, when they knew that they were not going to make it to the airport, even if the idling engine was faulty, it would have given them the extra few miles.
Glad the pilots survived, and hope they’re still on amicable terms.
If they're anything like my friends are with me... It's just fodder for the next batch of "ribbing".
"Well, then, what's wrong with my flying? I have an impeccable record."
"Yeah, sure, buddy... Except for that time you ditched us off Hawaii."
"You gave me the controls at 20 feet off the g** d*** deck!"
"YOU were still the one with the yoke in his hands. YOU crashed the plane!" {probably trading winks with everyone else present}
"I want y'all to listen at THIS SH*T! That's how he does people he flies with!" {probably gesturing broadly and then pointing at the other, or flipping him off}
"I still haven't crashed us or sank a plane to the bottom of the sea... not once!"
"ONLY because you gave me controls at 20 g** d*** feet off the deck! What the f*** am I supposed to do at 20 f***in' FEET?!"
"You remember what you kept begging ME... 'Please fly the plane'... Maybe take your own advice there, Tiger!"
"F*** YOU!
"Nah... that would be f*** you." {still trading winks with everyone who isn't in tears on the floor already}
AND the rest of the room crows delightedly at both of them... hahahahaha...
The "can't tell his right from his left" jokes would write themselves... practically...
Intense situations happen... AND it takes a little while, but most of us bounce back and some time later, we can laugh. Once that happens, we can even make jokes at each other's expense... ;o)
I wonder if they kept thier jobs.
@@dannydaw59 They probably did. I assume that, after the final report was released, they went through additional training and had to be recertified. And they never flew together again because of the lack of good CRM.
@@dannydaw59 The FAA shutted Transair down after this Crash - so at least not at this Airline.
It's ones like these that are my favourite. I come into these videos expecting deaths, but knowing they were saved is a massive relief.
If there's one thing I learned from Lemmino's new documentary on the Texas Book Depository, it's that we can't trust our sense of directional hearing. Sounds play tricks on us, and our minds are bad at remembering what we actually heard--especially unexpected sounds. So it's sad that the first officer kept confirming the left engine was the bad one, based on what he thought he initially heard.
My 8 year old son is a big fan of you and have seen all your videos. A short message from him- All your episodes are really interesting and you explain it very nicely. I look forward to meet you one day😘
That is awesome! Tell him I said hi and that I’m really happy he likes my videos. 💕
Congratulations on 100 episodes! You are, by far, my favourite RUclipsr and flying channel. The passion you have for flying, teaching and life-long learning is inspirational and demonstrated so well in your videos. Thank you for everything you do for the flying community.
I am not a pilot, but I find these videos captivating - subbed.
Congrats on your 100th episode! I'm not a pilot, have never been a pilot, but your vids are always professional, fascinating, educational and informative. Thank you sir, and carry on!
Huge congrats on 100th episode!!! I remember seeing the news coverage for this one, thank you for covering this…
Thank you!
I hope this video makes what happened a bit clearer.
These are great lessons for pilots. I’ve been flying the NG/MAX for over 13 years and we all make mistakes. Thanks for making these great videos and learning materials. Glad both guys made it.
One of their mistakes was most likely talking to ATC for several minutes, when they should have said nothing, and just Squawked 7700.
@@hiscifi2986 Indeed, exactly.
Mentour Pilot simply makes the best aircraft accident Investigation videos i have ever seen
As a pilot I would have thought that as it became clear that they were decending and at stall speed and about to hit the water, then opening both trust levers, regardless of the check lists would have been a good last ditch idea. I mean why not? No 2 might have failed completely but No 1 might have stopped the decent, and corrected their misconception. All your points about CRM are very true, and likewise the maintenance back story. It just felt that the aircraft was flying them not the other way around. Very glad both pilots survived and recovered well. Much to be learnt here. TheDr.
You're right
While that reasoning is valid and rational, the problem with high stress is that it interferes with rational thinking
Congratulations on 100 episodes and looking forward to the next 100 ! While watching videos of this incident both by you and others, after having watched various presentations of the British Midlands accident, I couldn't help get a sinking feeling and almost yelling, " No it is the other engine". Yes, its very easy to have 20/20 clarity in an armchair in hindsight.
i was just about to add a similar comment.
In those types of accidents I keep wondering why, when they get to the point where they know they are going to crash, they don't gun all the engines regardless of any damage they might have and hope for the best, how much worse than a crash could it get?
@@fuzzy1dk That would require an awareness that you might possibly have a wrong idea in your head regarding which engine is damaged and which is working. If you are absolutely sure that the left engine is completely dead, as these pilots were, the idea to request thrust from the left engine would indeed not cross your mind: it could not only obviously not possibly help in any way, but it might actually make matters even worse, for example by causing that engine to catch fire or explode.
If you mean "in general, before crashing, you should always try to spin all engines up" - then i'm not sure that is really such a good idea. Should you really try to spin up an engine that is actually broken, and that you know to be broken, shortly before crashing? Apart from the possible detrimental effect, aren't there more relevant tasks to focus on shortly before crashing, like managing the attitude and the horizontal and vertical speeds as well as possible?
Besides, aren't the rules how to deal with *specific* emergencies distilled into *specific* checklists, precisely to resolve such ambiguities what to check & do in which order and under which conditions? In this case, if i understand MentourPilot correctly, the checklist would indeed have resolved the problem (by containing instructions to check both engines in specific ways to avoid misidentification of the problem), but unfortunately, there was too much distraction to ever properly complete that checklist...
@@IngoSchwarze my point was to ignore that the engine is damaged (afaiu it was still at idle, not shut down) once a crash becomes unavoidable, the engine is either going to do nothing and you still crash or something and you might not crash
@@fuzzy1dk might not wanna increase your impact velocity if the engine does work somewhat
The best part about having memory issues is that I get to rewatch these videos and they always feel brand new. Thank you, Mentour Pilot!
It’s crazy how little time you have to make the right decision in these situations.
exactly ,hence good pilots are rare.
@@ericscaillet2232 I don't think good pilots are rare. We haven't heard of all the non-accidents by good pilots, and here we see 2 morons not identifying which engine was not working :D Bad pilots are rare, but we see them on youtube.
@@flashgordon5488I think you’d be just as much of a moron, maybe slightly even more useless, were you in the cockpit with them. 😄👍🏻
Definitely kinda crazy to think that there's been 100 episodes, both of more well known events and obscure accidents. Makes me wonder how many more lesser known incidents we still have to cover.
It also gives me a new respect for just how many things are working on these beastly great machines at any given time.
It is still mind-blowing to me how neither pilot correctly identified the failed engine. Because like you explain, the "dead foot, dead engine" principle should have clued them from the get-go.
They are like grandpa's age already,so their brain is not that sharp anymore.not unless if they are asians,that 50+ years old seems still young due to lifestyle and quality of foods they eat in asia,especially on a poor country part of asia.
I just watched the entire video it’s crazy how they survive that impact I can imagine how they felt during the flight.
For me the most scary is the idea about seeing water level raising through the window.
Unbelievable that they both survived. I was holding my breath until you said that they were picked up..
I remember when this hit the news and being grateful that the flight crew survived the ditching. Thanks for the analysis of very much a human factors case. In my humble opinion these are the most applicable to those of us who don't have the office views you do ☺️. Gotta admit though, I was surprised to hear it was a Jurassic - how many of those are still in service?? That's a lot of time and cycles! (Thinks about the Aloha flight that lost the roof.) Thanks again!!
Maybe the right Engine was simply at the end of its lifetime - more than 100000 Cycles are tremendous!
there are plenty of good pilot youtubers who make similar videos to yours, however, you're my favorite among them all as you're very technical and your videos are just literal perfect. very interesting and fun to watch and comforting to know what happens behind that closed door. please keep it up and try to upload more content as i'm already addicted to your channel and watched ALL your videos on repeat!
Always on top of the game... I wish Peter had been my physics and mathematics teacher; he is just a vibe you can listen to. Because of the way you explain every moment of the story and the airline fundamentals, procedures, and responsibilities, it sticks to your head so well that you don't want to miss the next lesson or episode.
Loyal mentour fun from Kenya
He explains so clearly why things matter!
In the beginning, describing how the pilots felt after the incident, it's nice to know they survived.... Someday's good news is nice.
I'm very familiar with the UK Kegworth crash, it was one of the Air Crash Investigation/Mayday episodes I showed all our students at our MPL academy in the middle East, before I left. The question that came right to my mind was the quality of the pilots' simulator training. This incident should have been a doddle to resolve safely, but the pilots fluffed it totally. They appeared reactive, rather than proactive, by not sticking to SOPs. Just my 2 cents worth.
The issue there was made much worse by the altered gauges of that model. They where small, hard to read, and very different to what they'd trained ion and sued previously. Particularly during severe vibration. There were also some other design changes that happened they were unaware of that factored in.
In a way it's the grandfather to the 737 MAX mess as that crash, (kegworth), was the one that brought in the need for additional training on any aircraft modification above a certain level. So with the MAX boeing did everything they could to dodge that requirement which came back and bit them on the bum. Though the airlines deserve some blame too as Boeing did highlight the new system as somthing the pilots needed a basic briefing on and not all airlines did it so some of the poor crews caught up in it had no idea how to turn it off.
Indeed - there was at no point a structured way of problem-solving, what resulted in confirmation bias. They had simply good luck to survive. Fortunately it was in opposite to the Kegworth Disaster a Cargo Aircraft, so only the two Pilots on board.
Wow, that is scary how easily this accident could have been avoided.
I am still shocked why they didnt goose the left throttle, especially toward the end when there was nothing left to lose.....
Keep in mind that the entire flight was only 11minutes and what you're calling "the end" lasted only few seconds
@@Potato-dx5mc
I suppose its something they must get specifically trained against, because both engines were still *running* all the way into the water - just neither thought to see if they could get just a little more thrust
Lots of love from a billion Indian 🇮🇳
Your content is just amazing keep it up...captain
And request to make a video on tragic accident of pia 8303
As soon as we get the final report.
Very glad that they survived, I was really afraid that this would be a fatal accident. Great to hear that this wasn't the case.
My favorite RUclipsr at the moment. I have been binge watching both of your channels for weeks and I am now in love with aviation.
Honestly I was gonna say that everything the pilots did makes sense to me, except for not trying to get at least something out of engine 1 when it became clear that they need more power. However, in the last few minutes of the video we learn that the pilots were used to the faulty engine just completely shutting off and therefore subconsciously knew it was no use. I find it interesting how their experience with the situation is what made them miss the best chance for resolving it.
Indeed.
Fitting that on your 100th episode, you've raised the bar [that peaked with air France imo] yet again with the editing/storytelling. Lovely stuff.
The pilots must have been deathly embarrassed when they later discovered their mistake. Did they keep flying?
Petter I love your videos for the complete details you give in the emergency / crash and the reasons why. I find it hard to believe how many plane crashes are actually pilot error / misunderstandings but I guess we are all human and make mistakes. Great video keep them coming!
Thank God,they both survived.
Whoooooo, both survived! I always dread these videos when I'm not familiar with the accident and am sat there nervously watching events unfold.
I love when Mentour is wearing his "uniform" costume. Looks very real. And he's so happy wearing it.
Excellent cinematography around 24:30 - a panning shot that gives a good sense of how far the plane was from the airport.
With the level of editing and story telling. I am happy with one video per month! Quality >>> Quantity!!
Congrats on 100 episodes!
recently found your channel and already watched about half of them, they are very interesting!
Keep up the good work!
Congrats on the 100th episode Petter. Thanks so much for the great entertainment but also the amazing lessons that student pilots like myself can learn in terms of CRM and stress management. These videos have lessons I believe all pilots can and should learn from.
Your enthusiasm makes for encouragement for new pilots and non pilots in the workforce 😅. Thanks. Keep it up .
You explain everything so well, remarkably eloquent about something that can become really confusing to someone who doesn’t know a lot about planes or pilots 👍🏼
Excellent comment 💯
Your engine animation in the beginning calls the low pressure turbine that drives the low pressure compressor "low pressure compressor" instead of low pressure turbine. This confused me for a sec, wondering why you would have a compressor behind the turbine :D
This confused me too. The narration is also unclear - Petter correctly states that the HP turbine stage drives the HP compressor stages and the LP turbine stages power the LP compressor stages, but then when the animation begins he states that the single HP turbine stage drives the compressors (plural). I thought I had missed something!
I think company culture may have hampered the captain. He was going against his normal standards and training when taking off with high engine temps. So by lowering his standards, he may have second-guessed his instincts or lost his bearings altogether.
This happens in almost all jobs. There is a boss or management above that cares about their bottom line more than safety. Not always, but often enough that we hear about mistakes being made and corners cut all the time.
I agree, starting to second-guess your decision-making at a critical moment can be disastrous. The captain's first instinct to just return to the airport immediately after an engine failure might not have been procedure, but it wasn't the wrong call by any means, just slightly reactive/cautious. It would certainly have been better than this second-guessing and trying to do the procedure, but failing
Congratulations on the 100 episodes! That's one hundred episodes of great research and great videos, I'm really glad your channel is out there
I remember reading about this when it happened and being amazed the pilots actually survived a night-time ocean ditching in a 737. Pretty lucky the USCG was so close by, but at least they survived.
Any landing you can walk or swim away from is a success.
True
Guess it kind of ended up being a good thing they were going so slow. The fact that they were both able to swim away from this has got to be pretty rare.
Hands down the best aviation channel out there.
100 EPISODES! TY for all you’ve done & provided for us Mentor Pilot…You’re an outstanding Educator, Communicator, and Story Teller…May GOD Bless you and guide your Steps!
They are not the first pilots to mistake which engine is out and crash with a good engine idling. I can imagine how difficult it would be to go back and question which engine is out once the error was established in mind.
Congratulations on reaching 100 episodes and keeping the aviation geek in me happy!!
Thank you! Stand by for more!
Your videos are helping me get through a very hard time. Mom also immigrant moved in because cancer , having to still run a business manage disability and most of all parent to two small kids on my own in a country im not from… it’s not easy and I can lack situational awareness , heh… but no just seeing people function under much more intense responsibility is … something to hold onto thank you
You sound like you are a strong individual.....dealing with a sick parent AND kids is very demanding.....prayers for you and your family....
I've got to say ... This is one of the most comprehensive flight crash evaluations. I've seen yet on RUclips.
I play a lot of MSFS2020 and your videos are excellent to replicate a similar situation, this makes the gameplay very immersive as I use the same plane airports and failures, your videos are the best and the passengers who fly in your plane couldn't be in safer hands if a situation occurred. Thanks
Thank you so much for making this episode so quickly after the Final Accident report was published! Loved it.
Congrats on a hundred episodes, and thank you for these incredibly illuminating reports. I greatly appreciate every one of them and hope to hear much more of your expertise.
I'm so glad the two pilots survived!
Yesss!!! Was so excited for you to cover this one!!!!
Hope you enjoyed it! 💕
@@MentourPilot You bet! Absolute legend :)
Congratulations on the 100 episodes and fantastic coverage as always 👊🏿
Thank you so much 😊
Congratulations on 100 uploads Captain! And also for the "Heads Up" on aviation safety!
Damn.. really cool that they survived. It's just so rarely the case, given the speeds involved. Impacts at those speeds tend to make even the strongest materials quite maliable.
"Pilot" is a career where mistakes can be rather.... Unforgiving.
Congrats on 100 episodes Petter! Here’s to many many more! 🎉
Congratulations on your 100th episode! I'm an anaesthesiologist and I can see so many parallels between aviation and my work.
That's very interesting, thank you!
@@MentourPilot We learned CRM from aviation, which we call Crisis Resource Management (as we work in a team with more than 2 people). It has 4 components: Situational Awareness, Task Prioritisation & Allocation, Team Work, and Decision Making.
We also use Checklists to enhance patient care and safety. For example, to prevent surgeon operating on the wrong side of the body.
Like flying, anaesthesia also has 3 phases: the Take Off phase (induction of anaesthesia and insertion of breathing device), Cruise phase (we monitor the patient and set the ventilator on “auto pilot”, the Landing phase (emergence from anaesthesia and extubation). The Take Off phase is also most dangerous for us.
Edit: we also encounter equipment problems and failures, but we are trained to use other clinical cues (which unfortunately was not available to the pilots in this episode as they flew away from the lights).
Mad respect for you and your colleagues, unsung heroes
@@drandrewtanhello from the anesthesiologist to the anesthesiologist!🎉
Congrats on the 100 videos! I more or less watched them all - and enjoyed every single one of them 😁👍🏼 Keep making these great videos, you're amazing at explaining things and it helped me so much, to overcome my fear of flying! 🥰
Tack så mycket 😊
Congrats on 100 episodes Petter. I always enjoy your videos. This channel is my go to for aviation incidents.
Congrats on 100 episodes u really have taught me so much about aviation and a lot of other interesting things. Just earlier today I caught myself having confirmation bias and I thought of you. Really great channel. :)
I am not a Pilot, but seeing many of your videos just out of interest. I think they are absolutely great and extremely helpful for safer flying !!
Loving the video while sipping from my complementary “Mentour” cup! Really loved the high quality animations in this one, from the closeups of the aged flight deck panels to the illustration of the engines internal workings - very nice!
Hi! I'm a nervous flyer and I just wanted to say thank you for your videos, the end of each one always makes me so reassured that the same accident won't (or are really unlikely to) happen again. Your videos have really really helped me.
Congrats on 100 episodes!!
Thank you!
@@MentourPilot 100 more, please!!
In the end it’s simple: aircraft are replaceable, cargo is replaceable, human life is not. Not only did these two men get to go home to their loved ones, their post-crash testimonies, an invaluable resource many of the worst air crash investigations, by their very own nature do not have, and an honest assessment of the mistakes they made and why they made them, with the crucial understanding that _any_ pilot can and will make mistakes, will save even more lives in the future!
Except we already have several examples of the same kind of incident and those apparently didn't help these guys.
Just have to say absolutely amazing job on all these videos! I've been watching for a bit now and have to say that the quality you and your team put into these videos is insanely good and very much appreciated! Thanks for all the work you put into these videos and sharing these important stories with us!