Elf-women abstain from war: "For instance, the arts of healing, and all that touches on the care of the body, are among all the Eldar most practised by the nissi; whereas it was the elven-men who bore arms at need. And the Eldar deemed that the dealing of death, even when lawful or under necessity, diminished the power of healing, and that the virtue of the _nissi_ in this matter was due rather to their abstaining from hunting or war than to any special power that went with their womanhood. Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly..." HoMe X, Laws and Customs among the Eldar The folk of Haleth had a strange practice: "One of the strange practices spoken of was that many of their warriors were women, though few of these went abroad to fight in the great battles. This custom was evidently ancient; for their chieftainess Haleth was a renowned Amazon with a picked bodyguard of women." UT, The Druedain That custom, it was "strange to the Eldar and the other Atani".
Your channel is a breath of fresh air in this age if clickbait. Your review of LOTR War of the Rohirrim made me go out and watched it today and its cool to see them dive into niche lore of Rohan's history.
Outstanding work. The tale of Haleth's people, like many tales of the First Age, is too often overlooked and is deserved of more praise. Thanks for this thoughtful recognition of the women of Tolkien's works.
Celtic Queen Boudicca- led the Iceni tribe in East Anglia in one of the most threatening uprisings against the Romans. She's a British national heroine. (Not a role model- she did barbaric things. More incredible for what she achieved against the Romans) Saxon Lady Æthelflæd of the Mercians- Became a great leader who was loved by subjects and dreaded by enemies. "Caesar himself to win such glory fail'd" Joan of Arc - Led armies, helping save France from the English. French national heroine and a Saint for Catholics and Anglicans. Tolken's heroines remind me of them. These would have also been heroines for Tolkien.
Also there were female warriors in Norse sagas (such as Brunhild) and in Chivalric Romances (such as Bradamante and Marfisa in Orlando Furioso). I think Tolkien was inspired by them as well.
I think in Tolkien’s fantastical depiction of the ancient world, women were expected to fight for their “home” while men were expected to fight for their “homelands”.
Ye. I think the concept of 'home' is so underappreciated and underestimated while people like to look at the 'bigger picture'. They are all very important. And cases like Galadirel, Haleth and Éowyn to show that it is a matter of division of labor, not a rigid stereotype. Tho I have to admit that historical records (I do feel like the whole Tolkien Legendarium is the history of an existing universe) tend to neglect the home role sometimes.
Ngl, I really loved Eowyn's portrayal in the 1983 animated adaptation of "Return of the King". She was incredibly gorgeous and fierce there. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter Jackson and/or Miranda Otto took inspiration from such version of the character
One of the interesting things is that despite the number of people who complain about the shortage of female characters in Tolkien (which makes no sense when you consider what he was trying to write and the time during which he lived), his female characters are among the best I have ever read. If the decision had been purely mine, my daughter's name would have been taken from Tolkien.
I'm very interested in hearing you cover Tolkien's seeming infatuation with and influence by Norse mythology, especially concerning the Warriors of Rohan!
Multiple thoughts: 1. Apparently the fact that most of the riders of Rohan being played as women with beards glued on for the movies isn't too far off. 2. Really need a call out for Lobelia Sackville-Baggins. Her umbrella is more frightening than any sword.
Can I add Niniel, she's not warrior in that sense of the word, but she's extremely strong-willed and willing to help her husband (*cough brother) At the end of Children Hurin she has a moment. Even before Turin goes to kill the dragon, she has bad feelings and tries to stop him unsuccessfully. After his gone, she's not willing to stay put and is determined to go after him and meet whatever fate awaits her. From the book: - And she stood forth before the people that were still gathered in the open place of the Ephel, and she cried: 'Men of Brethil! I will not wait here. If my lord fails, then all hope is false. Your land and woods shall be burned utterly, and all your houses laid in ashes, and none, none, shall escape. Therefore why tarry here? Now I go to meet the tidings and whatever doom may send. Let all those of like mind come with me!' Then many where willing to go with her She's also the one brave enough to approach the dragon. And she's pregnant in this scene!
@@dylancage9031 Based on the comment and this video being about warrior women, it sounds like she's depicted as a capable warrior in the film (I haven't seen it yet) and there are people out there who are complaining about it.
Despite not being canon, the videogame Shadow of War had some pretty cool female representation. Without a doubt the best was Idril. Beautiful and vulnerable, but also loyal and strong-willed to defend her home and preserve its history. Even if the "Fires of War" theme is mostly about Talion, I can genuinely imagine Idril singing it
One of the things I really appreciate about Tolkien's world is that men and women seem to be equal and there's no mystery to it being so. The stories feature great heroines from different species and cultures and not only are they fierce and powerful, but they also have love and compassion🗡️💪 🙌❤️
Brilliant! I was a bit confused by the whole Sheild Maiden thing in WOTR but I still loved it. I'm happy to know that there were some examples of brave mortal women who fought too. It reminds me of what Eowyn says to Aragon, "The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them." I'm also really interested in the suggested video you could also make about the other women. As a women, I really love how Tolkien respected women so much that they were more than simply political alliances, mothers and wives. They're really shown to be their own people. This especially at a time in the world that women were just seen and not heard
loved this one, matt! Great artwork I hadn't seen before on this channel, especially liked the ones that are somewhat reminiscent of the Arcane artstyle
In The Two Towers film, the presence of Edoras's women, including Eowyn, at Helm's Deep (obviously, a departure from the book) actually makes it difficult to believe that she wouldn't get to show her mettle in that battle. That kingdom was facing annihilation, and was so desperate that (male) children were being conscripted into the defense. But Eowyn? She's to be sent with the women into the caves, however much she hates it, and however much her uncle should surely know how capable she would be in defending the Hornburg. (And her line "The women of this country learned long ago: Those without swords can still die upon them" suggests that it's not uncommon for Rohirrim women as a whole to know how to defend themselves, so many of those cowering helplessly in the Glittering Caves should have been capable of contributing to the defense).
The only problem I have with this movie is , you hear the makers of the show say stuff like “there isn’t alot of strong female characters in Tolkien” they either haven’t read the books or are being disingenuous on purpose, I don’t have a problem with female characters being the star I just don’t want them to change Tolkien’s lore to fit “modern audiences” if you want a female lead I’m all for it but there are plenty to choose from in the lore, Luthien, Eowyn, Arwen just to name a few,
I don't get this purism litmus test. Are you arguing Tolkien was infallible, his lore beyond reproach, his words and ideas sacrosanct? He was just a man writing fiction. Heck, even he retconned his own works in later publications. Call it Tolkien inspired and call it a day.
Arwen is not a particularly strong female character in the books. She's an object to be won by Aragorn with little agency of her own. She's very different from Luthien or Eowyn. Eowyn's story has been told as part of the greater LOTR tale. Is there really a worthwhile story to be told about her childhood or her marriage to Faramir? Luthien's tale is tied up within the greater Silmarillion, to which no one has the rights to adapt. So if you want to tell a Middle Earth story with a female protagonist, what's the problem with inserting one into a preexisting story. Certainly, this can be done poorly, but that is not the case in War of the Rohirrim.
@@jtwil2191 And I think it really fits (this shouldn't be a spoiler since everyone knows the tale). Helm and his sons died before the war ended, and Frealaf spent the whole winter away. If you watch the movie without prejudice, you will like it and notice that she is mostly a medium to tell the tale of Helm and what happened after.
I am interested in everything about women in Middle Earth and Valinor. Humans, elves, Valar, dwarfs and even spiders. I love when everything female in Tolkiens work is highlighted. Warrior elves is a great topic. Not a warrior, but a favorite of mine is Nienna. And Feanor's wife, Nerdanel. What is said about her in other books than The Silmarillion? So much to explore...
Tolkien: writes women who are both strong and feminine, with a few exceptions. Modern writes: Anyway, here are a bunch of wanna be Eowyns, but with non of the charm or depth.
I agree. They're lacking nuance. Same way I feel about most modern Trans Characters. The Crying Game(1992) did a MUCH better job then most films today. And Tolkien did a SUPERB job with Cis Women back then. Ironic.... how stories made in less egalitarian times, did a better job then modern more accepting times.
Funny thing is, by making women warriors, modern writers emphasize that only with traditional men traits that women can get respect, while in reality women have so many respectable traits thst most men dont have, and yet those are shoved aside for, in my reasoning, jealousy and laziness
@@georgepatton93 That's what I have been saying! That's why I love Luthien. She is strong while also being feminine and in love with a man (another thing viewed as a weakness by modern writes).
or many guys that read fantasy really like women so we like to see them kick ass and look hot....it is only recently with incels and ugly girl bosses that dudes started bitching
If it is badly done, sure you're right. Though outside of blockbuster cinema there're quite a few good examples of this, especially in fantasy literature.
Infact, Tolkien didn't want the feminine to be left behind by the masculine, this is why he wrote characters to express the maternal, receptive, and caring roles often associated with the feminine and this is probably why feminists hate tolkien, because he was an actual lover of women, not women pretending to be men.
Regarding warrior women, it seems there just weren't many with those few being noteworthy like other ancient and early medieval women such as Boudicca and Artemesia. Tolkien is pretty historically accurate in this regard.
List's interesting enough that the likes of Galadriel and Luthien had to be removed in a manner similar to how Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Space Dandy, and Carole & Tuesday are sometimes disqualified from superlative English dubs because *they're that good,* hehe. Interesting that Haleth's people's women soldiers never fought much in foreign wars, unlike the Greek mythology Amazons who've been quite notable in conflicts like the Trojan War (which also had Ethiopians and maybe even Indians; make of that what you will). 6:06: One can assume Tolkien read enough about the Resistance groups of WW2 (like Tito's Yugoslav movement), and also some notably costly failures (the Warsaw Uprising being one). 6:46: I assume these boys, old men, and women were most likely combat stave/spear wielders plus cavalry archers, akin to how medieval Japanese militia and women are skilled with horseriding, naginatas with emergency wakizashi shortswords, and sporting archery. Again, though not a woman of the spotlight, gotta love Hama in The Two Towers book. Really wish he survived Helm's Deep. One can easily wonder how many unsung women warrior heroines in all of Middle-earth history played the "Sweet Polly Oliver" routine made manifest by good old Eowyn. 13:40: Oh, please do.
"One of the *strange* practices spoken of was that many of their warriors were women, though few of these went abroad to fight in the great battles. This custom was evidently ancient; for their chieftainess Haleth was a renowned Amazon with a picked bodyguard of women." Who was the practice *strange* to? Eowyn: "Though not a ‘dry nurse’ in temper, she was also not really a soldier or ‘amazon’, but like many brave women was capable of great military gallantry at a crisis." Letter 244 "Éowyn says that women must ride now, as they did in a like evil time in the days of Brego son of [mark showing name omitted] Eorl’s son, when the wild men of the East came from the Inland Sea into the Eastemnet." HoMe VIII, Part 3, II, ii The Muster of Rohan
That practice was strange to Eldar and other Edain of Beleriand, as far as I understand, who did not have a custom of "many female warriors" (despite some of their females might fight in case of great need or hunt for pleasure).
@@Tar-Elenion There were some cases of Elven women fighting, such as Galadriel fighting alongside Teleri in Alqua Londe or Idril fighting during the fall of Gondolin (in some sources). But those cases were not customary, as far as I understand.
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ Tolkien noted that while elf-women abstain from war, they will fight in desperate defence. Like Galadriel at Alqualonde (in some late variants) or Idril at Gondolin (in some variants).
I think anyone who knows Tolkien lore and loves it would never say there are not female warriors in Middle Earth. I think the problem with the new animated film is that the protagonist is just the best at everything. That ruins the whole thing for anyone who loves to be emotionally involved in a story that feels real even when it’s fantasy. Weaknesses and faults in characters make them much more interesting and sympathetic.
Just because the female protagonist is a good sword fighter doesn't mean she magically is good at everything. Her aunt saves her when she was kidnapped, Her father, Helm saves her from the trolls in the snow mountain. Also her conflict with her former friend results in her father and brother dying. At the end of the movie, she leaves as she doesn't want to rule
Fantastic analysis! It’s incredibly important to have reminders of the rich history written in the pages of Tolkien’s works that might j spire current stories. Also, I would love a video on Elf women!
Good effort on a topic very important at the moment. However, I honestly think two changes should be made. First, the title of the video would, in my opinion, more accurately represent its contents if it were “The Female Leaders and Warriors of Middle-earth”. Secondly I think it is VERY IMPORTANT to indicate clearly to the viewer which lines of your voiceover are your own paraphrase/retelling and which are direct quotes from texts of Tolkien himself. A couple of times that line seems to be blurred, which could be confusing for viewers not extremely well-versed in the source texts (who are more than a few, I imagine.) I don’t do “lore videos” but I do appreciate that a great deal of work goes into what you do. So I am sorry if I am being a bit of a curmudgeon, as usual.
@@valentinkambushev4968 I don't know which movie are you talking about, which men they turned into idiots to make Hera look good? Are you sure you're not hating on it just because it's trendy?
This is a fantastic video, the images and the narration. I learned so much new lore. I'd heard that Liv Tyler and Peter Jackson got some flack for making Arwen more warrior-like, such as the scene with Frodo and the Nazgul at the Ford. And, is it true they were considering having Arwen lead an army of elves? Anyway, I'd definitely like to know about female elves who were warriors. Thanks!
@@meduseldtales3383 Elrond was a warrior in the First and Second Ages. In the Third Age, Tolkien seems to have removed him from engaging in war (e.g. in initial drafting of the Tale of Years, Elrond goes to out war with Angmar (implied: "Cirdan of Lune and Elrond, with belated help sent by sea from King Eärnil, defeat Angmar", & "Celebrían, wife of Elrond... is taken by Orcs in the passes of the mountains. She is rescued by Elrond and his sons...." PoMe, Tale of Years. Tolkien changes that in revision.) Also, Tolkien further distinguishes between elf-men who are healers, and elf-women, stating that elf-men who are healers "went not to war until the last need." In summary: Elf-men go to war. Elf-women abstain from war (which gives them greater ability in healing). Elf-men who are healers only go off to war at last need. Elf-women still abstain from war (though they will fight in defence if attacked).
@@Tar-Elenion So, if Elrond could do it, why not the elf-women as well? They could go hunting and fight in the wars when they are young, and when they are ready to have kids and settle down, they could switch to healing. Also, isn't it a bit absurd that 50-60% of elven populations would need to focus their life into becoming healers? Why would any society need so many healers??
i dont think most fans have an issue with the female warrior thing, its that she ''needed'' to be there to show the depth of Helm's emotions.....like really? do you need a daughters perspective to show the fathers agony of witnessing his sons death? yeah...
Okay.... I like your voices. If only you could record some of JRRT's works without violating copyright. You'd do GREAT!! And... yes... I'd love an upload about the Elven Warriors.
Did you know that when Farmer Maggot caught Frodo stealing his mushrooms for THIRD time, he let him go with a warning, instead of a mandatory 20 years to life prison sentence as any civilized society with three-strikes law would have! Tolkien's books are pure liberal propaganda.
Wow that's really cool stuff about the Easterlings. We don't know too much about them but what we do know is cool. Really wish we could see them explored in more depth on screen. I thought we'd get that with Rhun in The Rings of Power season 2 but...
In light of Tales Of The Shire coming out, could you make a video on the different families that live in maybe Bywater or The Shire, and their history of each family? Thanks
Many of the horsemen you see in the movies are actually women dressed as men because there weren't enough men in New Zealand who could ride them so the women if the stables were given armour and beards. It's quite funny but also shows the dedication put into making the trilogy.
I don't have a problem with female warriors in Tolkien's universe as long as it makes sense. But still some "modern" viewers will say "why didn't Tolkien write many female warriors?" It's based in Medieval Europe... What do you expect? Female warriors should be the exception but not the rule. Eyown is so great because she's not a feminist girl boss; but a beautiful, feminine, strong woman.
It's not based in Medieval Europe, even though some aspects might be. For example, there's no Christianity or any other similar patriarchal religion designed to keep women down.
@ that’s not true actually. One of the reasons for Tolkien creating Middle Earth was to give the UK its own mythology; something that it didn’t really have up until that point other than King Arthur. Almost every other culture throughout the world historically has been patriarchal to some degree with or without Christianity’s involvement.
@@Chimpanzee-That No, what meduseld posted was entirely true. It is NOT based in Medieval Europe. That has nothing to do with his desire to give the UK a mythology. The First through Fourth Ages of Middle Earth would have, in his grand vision, DRASTICALLY predated "Medieval Europe". ... Also, "feminist girl boss"?? Puhlease. Just stop.
Can y'all even define "girlboss"? Eowyn's crowning moment was her "I am no man" line, which even existed in the books in a longer form. Most of her character is about how she's not feminine at all, she's the original "girlboss", she just existed before y'all started suckling on the rage-teat of the internet and decided to be mad about her character type. Absolutely guarantee if the same exact films came out today people would be screeching about how she's a girlboss and it's trash writing and no way she could kill a ringwraith blablabla.
It isn't that the idea of warrior women in Tolkien's world is rejected, it is the mis-characterization of specific characters for the purposes of wokeness. The most obvious being Galadriel and putting her in battles and locations she was never in. Yes Tolkien had warrior women in his legendarium, but the modern Girl Boss trope was never part of it. Rings of power, war of the rohirrim, each is an attempt to change the works of Tolkien.
They also did the same with Miriel in ROP where they made her some sort of warrior queen. 😅 It's kinda annoying that they feel the need to "improve" their characters by turning them to action girls (PJ also tried doing this with Arwen). It's so predictable. It's as if the only way to make a female character interesting is by turning her to a warrior/shieldmaiden who kicks ass. Luthien is not a warrior, so is Lobelia, Queen Melian and the others but they are great characters.
Thank you for being so positive in your reviews and videos, it’s really helpful when looking at someone’s perspective of a show or movie, and I have been waiting for your Rohirrm video to get an opinion that actually has constructive criticism and feedback. Thank you, May Illuvitar Bless you
That was awesome!! Legitimately has me craving more! I watched War of the Rohhirim yesterday and now, along with this video, it's reignited my desire to actually read Tolkien's work for myself.
I have no problem with female warriors but their stories should be told as they are depicted, no more making Galadriel this Xena Warrior princess knock off. Same goes for an already female dominated Wheel of Time which wasn't enough for freaking Amazon. RESPECT THE CANNON SET FORTH BY THE CREATOR! Is the only rule I follow.
What cannon? You do know this entire story, which is about Rohan not Galadriel... I mean Nerwen the Man-Maiden... I mean the Amazoness as Tolkien described her... anyway, this entire story is 2-3 pages long max? What, you wanted a 30 min film? Good lord. You do have a problem with female warriors.
I LOVE these videos man I owe you a BIG thanks. I mean you got me intersted in this AMAZING world(even in the books). Genuinely, thank you! PS: there is a minecraft LOTR mod (Pacman mod, see on YT) which is so INCREDIBLY DETAILED and MYSTERIOUS just like the books. Could you pleease make a video abt it and his extraordinary work?
There are plenty of female bad-a**es in Tolkien's writings, but a) those making adaptations keep trying to promote less prominent or less physically dangerous female characters into girlboss status, and b) they just don't know how to write good characters and make them unlikeable in the process.
Tell me which of those women or women-identifying badasses in Tolkien's writings you're referring to are able to be adapted according to the rights the entities making the adaptations actually have. Also, not sure how you can say there are plenty of women badasses in Tolkien's writings and then talk about girlboss and all that? What makes Tolkien's not girlbosses and not unlikeable to you?
![The Dragons of Middle-earth [COMPILATION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YSUlfiQVuDg/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Dragons of Middle-earth [COMPILATION]](/img/tr.png)
“The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them.”
Tolkien female characters and Studio Ghibli female characters are great examples of how to write authentically strong women.
Awwww. Best anime come from Studio Ghibli. Both influence me throughout childhood and adulthood.
Yes I'm interested in elf woman warriors
I am also interested in them.
Elf-women abstain from war:
"For instance, the arts of healing, and all that touches on the care of the body, are among all the Eldar most practised by the nissi; whereas it was the elven-men who bore arms at need. And the Eldar deemed that the dealing of death, even when lawful or under necessity, diminished the power of healing, and that the virtue of the _nissi_ in this matter was due rather to their abstaining from hunting or war than to any special power that went with their womanhood. Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly..."
HoMe X, Laws and Customs among the Eldar
The folk of Haleth had a strange practice:
"One of the strange practices spoken of was that many of their warriors were women, though few of these went abroad to fight in the great battles. This custom was evidently ancient; for their chieftainess Haleth was a renowned Amazon with a picked bodyguard of women."
UT, The Druedain
That custom, it was "strange to the Eldar and the other Atani".
I am as well
yes yes
Yes, I think you owe us this video, now you've mentioned it
Your channel is a breath of fresh air in this age if clickbait. Your review of LOTR War of the Rohirrim made me go out and watched it today and its cool to see them dive into niche lore of Rohan's history.
Your voice acting is getting top notch, Matt!!
This was a perfect topic for right now-thank you, Matt! (And I would love to watch a video on powerful elf women as well!)
Outstanding work. The tale of Haleth's people, like many tales of the First Age, is too often overlooked and is deserved of more praise. Thanks for this thoughtful recognition of the women of Tolkien's works.
Celtic Queen Boudicca- led the Iceni tribe in East Anglia in one of the most threatening uprisings against the Romans. She's a British national heroine. (Not a role model- she did barbaric things. More incredible for what she achieved against the Romans)
Saxon Lady Æthelflæd of the Mercians- Became a great leader who was loved by subjects and dreaded by enemies. "Caesar himself to win such glory fail'd"
Joan of Arc - Led armies, helping save France from the English. French national heroine and a Saint for Catholics and Anglicans.
Tolken's heroines remind me of them. These would have also been heroines for Tolkien.
Also there were female warriors in Norse sagas (such as Brunhild) and in Chivalric Romances (such as Bradamante and Marfisa in Orlando Furioso). I think Tolkien was inspired by them as well.
I think in Tolkien’s fantastical depiction of the ancient world, women were expected to fight for their “home” while men were expected to fight for their “homelands”.
And you would be completely incorrect.
@@RadRat78 How would he be so?
@@Vikingr4Jesus5919 Galadriel, Luthien, etc. Fought for things bigger than just "home".
Ye. I think the concept of 'home' is so underappreciated and underestimated while people like to look at the 'bigger picture'. They are all very important. And cases like Galadirel, Haleth and Éowyn to show that it is a matter of division of labor, not a rigid stereotype. Tho I have to admit that historical records (I do feel like the whole Tolkien Legendarium is the history of an existing universe) tend to neglect the home role sometimes.
Ngl, I really loved Eowyn's portrayal in the 1983 animated adaptation of "Return of the King". She was incredibly gorgeous and fierce there. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter Jackson and/or Miranda Otto took inspiration from such version of the character
One of the interesting things is that despite the number of people who complain about the shortage of female characters in Tolkien (which makes no sense when you consider what he was trying to write and the time during which he lived), his female characters are among the best I have ever read. If the decision had been purely mine, my daughter's name would have been taken from Tolkien.
Correction: Story of Kullervo will not be covered among Norse stories at all, as it is Finnish.
I'm very interested in hearing you cover Tolkien's seeming infatuation with and influence by Norse mythology, especially concerning the Warriors of Rohan!
Multiple thoughts:
1. Apparently the fact that most of the riders of Rohan being played as women with beards glued on for the movies isn't too far off.
2. Really need a call out for Lobelia Sackville-Baggins. Her umbrella is more frightening than any sword.
Can I add Niniel, she's not warrior in that sense of the word, but she's extremely strong-willed and willing to help her husband (*cough brother)
At the end of Children Hurin she has a moment. Even before Turin goes to kill the dragon, she has bad feelings and tries to stop him unsuccessfully. After his gone, she's not willing to stay put and is determined to go after him and meet whatever fate awaits her.
From the book:
- And she stood forth before the people that were still gathered in the open place of the Ephel, and she cried: 'Men of Brethil! I will not wait here. If my lord fails, then all hope is false. Your land and woods shall be burned utterly, and all your houses laid in ashes, and none, none, shall escape. Therefore why tarry here? Now I go to meet the tidings and whatever doom may send. Let all those of like mind come with me!'
Then many where willing to go with her
She's also the one brave enough to approach the dragon.
And she's pregnant in this scene!
The most eloquent "So shut up about Hera already!" Ive heard yet!
Who? Was she mentioned in the video?
@@dylancage9031 Based on the comment and this video being about warrior women, it sounds like she's depicted as a capable warrior in the film (I haven't seen it yet) and there are people out there who are complaining about it.
@@dylancage9031 No, she is the female protagonist of the new War of the Rohirrim film. Shockingly some people have had an issue with a female lead.
Oh Hell yea !!!
would love one on Immoral warrior woman
Plz dont forget Melian, The 4th most powerful of all the Maiar
Despite not being canon, the videogame Shadow of War had some pretty cool female representation. Without a doubt the best was Idril. Beautiful and vulnerable, but also loyal and strong-willed to defend her home and preserve its history. Even if the "Fires of War" theme is mostly about Talion, I can genuinely imagine Idril singing it
Would be great to see a video about the female villains in Tolkien's legendarium: Ungoliant, Thuringwethil, Fluithuin, Shelob, Beruthiel
Fluithuin??? Fluithuin... FluIthuin?!? Fluithuin..... Fluithuin? (10 points to anyone who gets this)
One of the things I really appreciate about Tolkien's world is that men and women seem to be equal and there's no mystery to it being so. The stories feature great heroines from different species and cultures and not only are they fierce and powerful, but they also have love and compassion🗡️💪 🙌❤️
"Equal" in what? Worth? Tolkien's fictional societies were all patriarchal (organic). Tolkien hated Feminism. He was a Christian.
This was a Wonderful Video! So True! I loved that you stick to Tolkien on all this! Very wonderfully put together video Matt! I enjoyed it!
Brilliant! I was a bit confused by the whole Sheild Maiden thing in WOTR but I still loved it. I'm happy to know that there were some examples of brave mortal women who fought too. It reminds me of what Eowyn says to Aragon, "The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them." I'm also really interested in the suggested video you could also make about the other women. As a women, I really love how Tolkien respected women so much that they were more than simply political alliances, mothers and wives. They're really shown to be their own people. This especially at a time in the world that women were just seen and not heard
Thank you for another amazing video! I can't wait to hear your spoiler review of War of the Rohirrim. I loved the movie 😊❤
Great storytelling!
Loved this video
yes, definitely interested in the elf warrior women video
loved this one, matt! Great artwork I hadn't seen before on this channel, especially liked the ones that are somewhat reminiscent of the Arcane artstyle
In The Two Towers film, the presence of Edoras's women, including Eowyn, at Helm's Deep (obviously, a departure from the book) actually makes it difficult to believe that she wouldn't get to show her mettle in that battle. That kingdom was facing annihilation, and was so desperate that (male) children were being conscripted into the defense. But Eowyn? She's to be sent with the women into the caves, however much she hates it, and however much her uncle should surely know how capable she would be in defending the Hornburg. (And her line "The women of this country learned long ago: Those without swords can still die upon them" suggests that it's not uncommon for Rohirrim women as a whole to know how to defend themselves, so many of those cowering helplessly in the Glittering Caves should have been capable of contributing to the defense).
I've always felt Tolkien wrote great female characters. He just wrote so few of them 😅
Which makes sense considering the setting being based on Medieval Europe.
Not really wrote so few, they were just often in supporting roles, serving as inspiration and sources of wisdom and rest for the heroes
It’s weird hearing this from so many guys, curious what most women are think
Hullo Matt. Many thks for your great job on this video.
Always nice.
Cheers❤
The only problem I have with this movie is , you hear the makers of the show say stuff like “there isn’t alot of strong female characters in Tolkien” they either haven’t read the books or are being disingenuous on purpose, I don’t have a problem with female characters being the star I just don’t want them to change Tolkien’s lore to fit “modern audiences” if you want a female lead I’m all for it but there are plenty to choose from in the lore, Luthien, Eowyn, Arwen just to name a few,
I don't get this purism litmus test. Are you arguing Tolkien was infallible, his lore beyond reproach, his words and ideas sacrosanct? He was just a man writing fiction.
Heck, even he retconned his own works in later publications. Call it Tolkien inspired and call it a day.
Arwen is not a particularly strong female character in the books. She's an object to be won by Aragorn with little agency of her own. She's very different from Luthien or Eowyn.
Eowyn's story has been told as part of the greater LOTR tale. Is there really a worthwhile story to be told about her childhood or her marriage to Faramir?
Luthien's tale is tied up within the greater Silmarillion, to which no one has the rights to adapt.
So if you want to tell a Middle Earth story with a female protagonist, what's the problem with inserting one into a preexisting story. Certainly, this can be done poorly, but that is not the case in War of the Rohirrim.
@@jtwil2191 And I think it really fits (this shouldn't be a spoiler since everyone knows the tale). Helm and his sons died before the war ended, and Frealaf spent the whole winter away. If you watch the movie without prejudice, you will like it and notice that she is mostly a medium to tell the tale of Helm and what happened after.
Not only did Eowin kill the chief of the Nazgul. She made it doubt. Made it afraid before it died. Absolute legend.
I am interested in everything about women in Middle Earth and Valinor. Humans, elves, Valar, dwarfs and even spiders. I love when everything female in Tolkiens work is highlighted.
Warrior elves is a great topic.
Not a warrior, but a favorite of mine is Nienna. And Feanor's wife, Nerdanel. What is said about her in other books than The Silmarillion? So much to explore...
I've heard that in cultures that don't have a large surplus population, the roles of men and women can overlap.
Eowyn's smack-talk of the Witch King was one of the most epic moments in the entire trilogy IMO. It was a shame what PJ did to it. :(
Make the elf video. T'would be awesome!
Definitely would love to see a video about the warrior women of the elves.
I'd like to see a video on elf woman warriors.
I'd like some "certain Elven huntresses" please
Tolkien: writes women who are both strong and feminine, with a few exceptions.
Modern writes: Anyway, here are a bunch of wanna be Eowyns, but with non of the charm or depth.
I agree. They're lacking nuance. Same way I feel about most modern Trans Characters.
The Crying Game(1992) did a MUCH better job then most films today. And Tolkien did a SUPERB job with Cis Women back then.
Ironic.... how stories made in less egalitarian times, did a better job then modern more accepting times.
Art vs imitation
these vids just keep reminding im so behind in my Tolkien readings lol
Middle Earth never ceases to amaze me. Especially the strong women.
Funny thing is, by making women warriors, modern writers emphasize that only with traditional men traits that women can get respect, while in reality women have so many respectable traits thst most men dont have, and yet those are shoved aside for, in my reasoning, jealousy and laziness
@@georgepatton93 That's what I have been saying! That's why I love Luthien. She is strong while also being feminine and in love with a man (another thing viewed as a weakness by modern writes).
or many guys that read fantasy really like women so we like to see them kick ass and look hot....it is only recently with incels and ugly girl bosses that dudes started bitching
Well, when it comes to “proving” themselves, often times women DON’T get approval or acceptance unless they’re doing traditionally “male” things.
If it is badly done, sure you're right. Though outside of blockbuster cinema there're quite a few good examples of this, especially in fantasy literature.
Infact, Tolkien didn't want the feminine to be left behind by the masculine, this is why he wrote characters to express the maternal, receptive, and caring roles often associated with the feminine and this is probably why feminists hate tolkien, because he was an actual lover of women, not women pretending to be men.
Regarding warrior women, it seems there just weren't many with those few being noteworthy like other ancient and early medieval women such as Boudicca and Artemesia. Tolkien is pretty historically accurate in this regard.
Yep I want the elf video too as well
Hell yes to the female elven warriors video.
You have to do an Elven version of this video. Otherwise people will think you're a King's Man.
List's interesting enough that the likes of Galadriel and Luthien had to be removed in a manner similar to how Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Space Dandy, and Carole & Tuesday are sometimes disqualified from superlative English dubs because *they're that good,* hehe.
Interesting that Haleth's people's women soldiers never fought much in foreign wars, unlike the Greek mythology Amazons who've been quite notable in conflicts like the Trojan War (which also had Ethiopians and maybe even Indians; make of that what you will).
6:06: One can assume Tolkien read enough about the Resistance groups of WW2 (like Tito's Yugoslav movement), and also some notably costly failures (the Warsaw Uprising being one).
6:46: I assume these boys, old men, and women were most likely combat stave/spear wielders plus cavalry archers, akin to how medieval Japanese militia and women are skilled with horseriding, naginatas with emergency wakizashi shortswords, and sporting archery.
Again, though not a woman of the spotlight, gotta love Hama in The Two Towers book. Really wish he survived Helm's Deep.
One can easily wonder how many unsung women warrior heroines in all of Middle-earth history played the "Sweet Polly Oliver" routine made manifest by good old Eowyn.
13:40: Oh, please do.
Yup do the elves next
How would his female characters holdup to strong female characters who followed by a lot of women today?
12:00 What happened to the Witch-King's ring?
Sauron actually had the Nine in his possession.
Definitely want to hear about the valor of elven women.
"One of the *strange* practices spoken of was that many of their warriors were women, though few of these went abroad to fight in the great battles. This custom was evidently ancient; for their chieftainess Haleth was a renowned Amazon with a picked bodyguard of women."
Who was the practice *strange* to?
Eowyn: "Though not a ‘dry nurse’ in temper, she was also not really a soldier or ‘amazon’, but like many brave women was capable of great military gallantry at a crisis."
Letter 244
"Éowyn says that women must ride now, as they did in a like evil time in the days of Brego son of [mark showing name omitted] Eorl’s son, when the wild men of the East came from the Inland Sea into the Eastemnet."
HoMe VIII, Part 3, II, ii The Muster of Rohan
That practice was strange to Eldar and other Edain of Beleriand, as far as I understand, who did not have a custom of "many female warriors" (despite some of their females might fight in case of great need or hunt for pleasure).
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ Correct. Elf-women abstained from war, hence the custom of the folk of Haleth was unknown among the Eldar.
@@Tar-Elenion There were some cases of Elven women fighting, such as Galadriel fighting alongside Teleri in Alqua Londe or Idril fighting during the fall of Gondolin (in some sources). But those cases were not customary, as far as I understand.
@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ Tolkien noted that while elf-women abstain from war, they will fight in desperate defence. Like Galadriel at Alqualonde (in some late variants) or Idril at Gondolin (in some variants).
I think anyone who knows Tolkien lore and loves it would never say there are not female warriors in Middle Earth. I think the problem with the new animated film is that the protagonist is just the best at everything. That ruins the whole thing for anyone who loves to be emotionally involved in a story that feels real even when it’s fantasy. Weaknesses and faults in characters make them much more interesting and sympathetic.
Just because the female protagonist is a good sword fighter doesn't mean she magically is good at everything. Her aunt saves her when she was kidnapped, Her father, Helm saves her from the trolls in the snow mountain.
Also her conflict with her former friend results in her father and brother dying. At the end of the movie, she leaves as she doesn't want to rule
"A cry went up into the shuddering air" is one of my favorite passages from LotR.
Fantastic analysis! It’s incredibly important to have reminders of the rich history written in the pages of Tolkien’s works that might j spire current stories. Also, I would love a video on Elf women!
THE CHEEKS ON EOWYN LOL
Great video. :) I'd love to see one on the Elven women!
I think its about execution with these fenale warrior characters to make them believable within tolkeins world of course.
Good effort on a topic very important at the moment.
However, I honestly think two changes should be made.
First, the title of the video would, in my opinion, more accurately represent its contents if it were “The Female Leaders and Warriors of Middle-earth”.
Secondly I think it is VERY IMPORTANT to indicate clearly to the viewer which lines of your voiceover are your own paraphrase/retelling and which are direct quotes from texts of Tolkien himself. A couple of times that line seems to be blurred, which could be confusing for viewers not extremely well-versed in the source texts (who are more than a few, I imagine.)
I don’t do “lore videos” but I do appreciate that a great deal of work goes into what you do. So I am sorry if I am being a bit of a curmudgeon, as usual.
“Female warriors ??? In my Lord of the Rings ??? the woke have gone too far.” (for legal reasons this is a joke)
@@GroovyDavid8 Maybe if they didn't turn all the male characters into idiots to make Hera look good, we wouldn't have to argue.
@ Bahahaha you are the butt of the joke my dude. Curious whose comment was liked by the creator again ??
@@GroovyDavid8 you see this: 😁
That's my "I don't give a f!@#!" face.
@@valentinkambushev4968 When have you ever known the characters in a tragedy to make smart decisions? That's kind of the genre-defining trait
@@valentinkambushev4968 I don't know which movie are you talking about, which men they turned into idiots to make Hera look good? Are you sure you're not hating on it just because it's trendy?
I'm interested in Elf woman warriors. Am I the only one that interested in female elf warriors🤔
This is a fantastic video, the images and the narration. I learned so much new lore. I'd heard that Liv Tyler and Peter Jackson got some flack for making Arwen more warrior-like, such as the scene with Frodo and the Nazgul at the Ford. And, is it true they were considering having Arwen lead an army of elves? Anyway, I'd definitely like to know about female elves who were warriors. Thanks!
_>"Anyway, I'd definitely like to know about female elves who were warriors."
@@Tar-Elenion And yet Elrond was both warrior and a great healer.
@@Tar-Elenion 🌟
@@meduseldtales3383 Elrond was a warrior in the First and Second Ages.
In the Third Age, Tolkien seems to have removed him from engaging in war (e.g. in initial drafting of the Tale of Years, Elrond goes to out war with Angmar (implied: "Cirdan of Lune and Elrond, with belated help sent by sea from King Eärnil, defeat Angmar", & "Celebrían, wife of Elrond... is taken by Orcs in the passes of the mountains. She is rescued by Elrond and his sons...." PoMe, Tale of Years. Tolkien changes that in revision.)
Also, Tolkien further distinguishes between elf-men who are healers, and elf-women, stating that elf-men who are healers "went not to war until the last need."
In summary:
Elf-men go to war.
Elf-women abstain from war (which gives them greater ability in healing).
Elf-men who are healers only go off to war at last need.
Elf-women still abstain from war (though they will fight in defence if attacked).
@@Tar-Elenion So, if Elrond could do it, why not the elf-women as well? They could go hunting and fight in the wars when they are young, and when they are ready to have kids and settle down, they could switch to healing. Also, isn't it a bit absurd that 50-60% of elven populations would need to focus their life into becoming healers? Why would any society need so many healers??
Elven huntresses.
The Warrior Women of Tolkien's works make them a far better read. Bring on the Elf Warrior Women.
"Let's look at the writings of Tolkien?" Hm. If only you applied that logic to your Rings of Power reviews.
Except…I do. Lmao
@NerdoftheRings You must have forgotten the countless violations to Tolkien canon, but go ahead, be a wise guy.
An elf female warrior video ? oh yeah i will watch that lol 🔥🥵 100% (im serious sounds awesome)
If you decide to at some point cover the Norse myths as they relate to and inspired LotR that would be AMAZING!
i dont think most fans have an issue with the female warrior thing, its that she ''needed'' to be there to show the depth of Helm's emotions.....like really? do you need a daughters perspective to show the fathers agony of witnessing his sons death? yeah...
Yes to the lady elf warriors.
Okay.... I like your voices. If only you could record some of JRRT's works without violating copyright. You'd do GREAT!!
And... yes... I'd love an upload about the Elven Warriors.
LET'S GO !
Can you believe how WOKE Tolkien was? Unbelievable 😅
Did you know that when Farmer Maggot caught Frodo stealing his mushrooms for THIRD time, he let him go with a warning, instead of a mandatory 20 years to life prison sentence as any civilized society with three-strikes law would have! Tolkien's books are pure liberal propaganda.
Wow that's really cool stuff about the Easterlings. We don't know too much about them but what we do know is cool. Really wish we could see them explored in more depth on screen. I thought we'd get that with Rhun in The Rings of Power season 2 but...
This was great!
I’d love to see a video of Tolkiens version of feminine power among the elves 🥰 Thanks for this, really great stuff!
In light of Tales Of The Shire coming out, could you make a video on the different families that live in maybe Bywater or The Shire, and their history of each family? Thanks
Tolkien was pretty progressive for a guy writing 70-90 years ago
14:00 Lagertha!
Many of the horsemen you see in the movies are actually women dressed as men because there weren't enough men in New Zealand who could ride them so the women if the stables were given armour and beards. It's quite funny but also shows the dedication put into making the trilogy.
Fantastic. Well timed and clearly needed given given some of the comments.
I would love a video about elven women and women miar/valar/ainur
I don't have a problem with female warriors in Tolkien's universe as long as it makes sense. But still some "modern" viewers will say "why didn't Tolkien write many female warriors?"
It's based in Medieval Europe... What do you expect? Female warriors should be the exception but not the rule. Eyown is so great because she's not a feminist girl boss; but a beautiful, feminine, strong woman.
It's not based in Medieval Europe, even though some aspects might be. For example, there's no Christianity or any other similar patriarchal religion designed to keep women down.
@ that’s not true actually. One of the reasons for Tolkien creating Middle Earth was to give the UK its own mythology; something that it didn’t really have up until that point other than King Arthur. Almost every other culture throughout the world historically has been patriarchal to some degree with or without Christianity’s involvement.
@@Chimpanzee-That No, what meduseld posted was entirely true. It is NOT based in Medieval Europe. That has nothing to do with his desire to give the UK a mythology. The First through Fourth Ages of Middle Earth would have, in his grand vision, DRASTICALLY predated "Medieval Europe". ... Also, "feminist girl boss"?? Puhlease. Just stop.
Can y'all even define "girlboss"? Eowyn's crowning moment was her "I am no man" line, which even existed in the books in a longer form. Most of her character is about how she's not feminine at all, she's the original "girlboss", she just existed before y'all started suckling on the rage-teat of the internet and decided to be mad about her character type. Absolutely guarantee if the same exact films came out today people would be screeching about how she's a girlboss and it's trash writing and no way she could kill a ringwraith blablabla.
@@the0new0revolution 👏🏻
It isn't that the idea of warrior women in Tolkien's world is rejected, it is the mis-characterization of specific characters for the purposes of wokeness. The most obvious being Galadriel and putting her in battles and locations she was never in.
Yes Tolkien had warrior women in his legendarium, but the modern Girl Boss trope was never part of it. Rings of power, war of the rohirrim, each is an attempt to change the works of Tolkien.
They also did the same with Miriel in ROP where they made her some sort of warrior queen. 😅
It's kinda annoying that they feel the need to "improve" their characters by turning them to action girls (PJ also tried doing this with Arwen). It's so predictable. It's as if the only way to make a female character interesting is by turning her to a warrior/shieldmaiden who kicks ass. Luthien is not a warrior, so is Lobelia, Queen Melian and the others but they are great characters.
So u hate girl bosses who can fight and capable?
So u hate female fighters who are capable fighters?
Thank you for being so positive in your reviews and videos, it’s really helpful when looking at someone’s perspective of a show or movie, and I have been waiting for your Rohirrm video to get an opinion that actually has constructive criticism and feedback. Thank you, May Illuvitar Bless you
Show me the elf warriors!
lol I was expecting an announcement of some women only fighting force retcon or something like female Custodes.
Let all yield to ruin.
1:11 anyone else thought that said Mount Doom for a second?
Where's Mighty Power "GUYLADRIEL" ( JD clay & Patrick bullshit imaginations )
It seems that one can make only so many videos about a finite piece of fantasy literature..
🤠👍👍
You forgot about Bronwyn.🤪
Who?🤣
Half the Nymenorian cavalry consusted of women fighters.🤪
I saw the movie today and i like it
Love this topic ❤️🔥
Absolutely interested in expanding this topic to elven women too! 👏
Love the voiceovers 😂👌
That was awesome!! Legitimately has me craving more!
I watched War of the Rohhirim yesterday and now, along with this video, it's reignited my desire to actually read Tolkien's work for myself.
I have no problem with female warriors but their stories should be told as they are depicted, no more making Galadriel this Xena Warrior princess knock off. Same goes for an already female dominated Wheel of Time which wasn't enough for freaking Amazon. RESPECT THE CANNON SET FORTH BY THE CREATOR! Is the only rule I follow.
What cannon? You do know this entire story, which is about Rohan not Galadriel... I mean Nerwen the Man-Maiden... I mean the Amazoness as Tolkien described her... anyway, this entire story is 2-3 pages long max? What, you wanted a 30 min film? Good lord. You do have a problem with female warriors.
And yet there's 83% chance that you still like and would defend the LotR movies "even though they made some changes I don't approve..." :/
I LOVE these videos man I owe you a BIG thanks. I mean you got me intersted in this AMAZING world(even in the books). Genuinely, thank you! PS: there is a minecraft LOTR mod (Pacman mod, see on YT) which is so INCREDIBLY DETAILED and MYSTERIOUS just like the books. Could you pleease make a video abt it and his extraordinary work?
War of the Rohirrim was the biggest dissapontement ever. Horrible
Didn’t ask
Why yes, I would absolutely be interested in a video about that. Why thank you.
😍😍😍😍✅✅✅✅
There are plenty of female bad-a**es in Tolkien's writings, but a) those making adaptations keep trying to promote less prominent or less physically dangerous female characters into girlboss status, and b) they just don't know how to write good characters and make them unlikeable in the process.
Any time I read "girlboss" or "feminist" in a comment, I throw up a little in my mouth.
Tell me which of those women or women-identifying badasses in Tolkien's writings you're referring to are able to be adapted according to the rights the entities making the adaptations actually have. Also, not sure how you can say there are plenty of women badasses in Tolkien's writings and then talk about girlboss and all that? What makes Tolkien's not girlbosses and not unlikeable to you?