The dumbest part is they chose not to use the cowl, an integral part of the iron fist costume, and the cowl would have allowed them to have a stunt man with a similar body type do the fighting with the cowl on 🤦
I think the dumbest thing about that show was the Danny Rand drinking game. Drink every time his name is said, and if you aren't passed out by episode 3, you win a trip to the hospital to get your stomach pumped.
It should have been a contractual obligation that whoever took the role of Iron Fist had to train and learn martial arts to an extremely advanced degree. The moment Finn Jones didn't want to they should have let him go and recast.
Definitely. Either get someone with an ounce of the work ethic of Keanu Reeves, or someone who is already a martial artist willing to train to be like if not already a master.
Surely it would have been easier to find a martial artist who could act well, than it was to train Finn Jones to do martial arts. I get that an unknown might not pull the same audience and they might not want to entrust a whole show to an untested actor, but it's not like Finn Jones was an A-lister - he was a secondary character (at best) in Game of Thrones.
Or choosing a master martial artist in the first place. Its not like they expect deep character acting. Just a humble dude. So they can actually just play themselves
My biggest pet peeve, as a Muay Thai coach, is Finn would've broken his hand trying to punch with that weak wrist and alignment. At least hire an Iron Fist that can make a decent fricking fist.
@@aaronmontgomery2055 And he had to pay for his own martial arts training between seasons just to be less crap. I think he does have other training, but very little of that was incorporated.
I read the title and immediately thought "oh no Karl's about to crap on Iron Fist show" and then remembered how bad that show was and realized it needs to be knocked again and again.
Nah it was fine, the first series anyway. The fight scenes would have been stupid if they went all Crouching Tiger in the dark gritty realistic world they were basing it all in. What's amusing is that the fights as a result look far more like what a random street fight between two people of any level within martial arts would actually be. Second series was poorly put together, but the fighting was the probably the second dumbest complaint about the show.
@@wyterabitt2149 As an absolute fight scene junkie...it was awful lol and poor choreography, planning and editing are the 3 things that make fight scenes suck. Iron fist was cursed with the full trifecta.
When I was in Uni my stage combat tutor said he was taught by the same person who taught Jones when he was in acting school. According to him, Jones never took stage combat seriously saying he would never need to use it in the future. Yeah really. It doesn't surprise me that he didn't train.
the fight between Steve Roger and the Winter Soldier i have watched quite a number of times. its more fun to know that during rehearsal, you can see the actors actually going *faster* in their knife fight, but obviously there's a slowdown in the movie
It really irked me how out of place Iron Fist looked in the series. He barely did any fighting at all. And they made him look like an absolute fail as a martial artist.
It's like he was the last actor to show up on set which doesn't make a lick of sense from a planning perspective. If his schedule was that packed then clearly going with him was a mistake.
@@joshjones9749 His schedule wasn't even packed 😂 Charlie Cox who plays Daredevil also had to work within Netflix's tight schedule, he was cast in the same 4 month window from casting to filming yet he managed to deliver on the stunt work, with his stunt double praising him for doing a lot of his own stunts. Finn Jones is just inept and an absolute miscast. I hate the excuse for him that he "had to learn a lot of lines as the lead" well guess what, so did Charlie Cox and he managed to do both phenomenally.
@@michaelryan3818 It was fun and I have no complaints about it, but it's not accurate to the comics. The Spider-sense gives him a heads-up, it doesn't move for him.
@@drake1360 normally inwould agree, but he was still technically concious, so i think it still sorta works because he didnt want to give Strange the box, its also intetesting that you could see the classic wave in the air around peters head in the spirt world
@@ravenreaper754 It's not a matter of whether or not he is conscious, it's whether or not he is able to act on the information that the spider-sense gave him, which he could not in that scene.
In the comics, Daredevil has a better win/loss ratio than anyone else who fights Iron Fist. His radar sense has, many times, been stayed to basically just be a better spider-sense
I mean if we're counting all anti-feats of a character, I'm 90% sure Spidey has more than DD but also I see that as more of a Bullseye feat than a DD anti-feats DD's radar sense can feel Spot's portals open before they actually open. As Dooma said, it's quite easy to overstimulate the Spider-Sense, which imo is another point taken away from Spider Sense as it does sometimes leave Peter immobile and incapable of defending himself. Plus there are other ways to get around the Spider Sense. If you're faster than Peter it don't go off in time (despite having super human reflexes) versus Daredevil who has peak human reaction, would be able to sense the attack, he just couldn't do anything about it, meaning he can prepare to minimise damage taken rather than just getting jumped.
@dooma3588 Idk, I agree that Spidey has the physical stat advantage, but similarly to Spidey, Daredevil is known for fighting people way above his league...like that one tone he fought Ultron and survived until he had a mental breakdown of the machine kind. Plus, if we're counting his time with The Hand, Matt has a lot more experience killing I still say Spidey wins most of the time but it's more like a 7-8/10 times imo
I reckon the real cause of this is actually Scott Buck, aka. the man who ruined Dexter. Scott Buck was the showrunner for Iron Fist and Eternals, at the behest of Ike Perlmutter (who has just been yeeted from Marvel entirely). This was because he has a reputation for shooting cheaply and Perlmutter is legendarily cheap (He was also the one who got rid of Terence Howard because he's also super racist and figured the audience wouldn't notice if a black guy changed, and he wanted Hulk to lead the pro-registration side in Civil War because Mark Ruffalo was cheaper than RDJ. That was the final straw for Kevin Feige to go to the top at Disney and demand that Perlmutter be removed from any oversight of the movies or he would quit). That's almost certainly why things like "learn this shit" wasn't a contractual obligation, because they would have had to pay more. He's also super spiteful, the reason the X-Men spent most of the 2010s being shat on in the comics and they kept trying to push the Inhumans so hard is 100% because he was bitter that Marvel didn't have the movie rights to them.
Yes his name is Lewis Tan and he did auditioned for the role buy they didn't gave it to him because "iron fist is not asian" funny enough after the series ended in the comics Danny rand lost his powers and the New Iron Fist IS Asian, Lin Lei and I hope they use that Iron Fist in the canon MCU Hell I hope they cast Tan in the role
@@CarlosHernandez-xo7js yeah because a privileged white boy from Manhattan is the perfect person to protect Chinatown. Couldve made him halfasian and it mightve made sense.
@@damienthetexasian6827 you do realize that Danny does not protect them. He literally fucking abandons them. And they all die because of it. Where does the protecting come from this?
@@frostbite2179 what are you talking about, "protect him"? Luke cage protects Harlem Daredevil protects Hells Kitchen Jessica Jones protects Manhattan Iron fist protects Chinatown, ....perfect casting
@@damienthetexasian6827 Yeah people weaponize Cultural Appropriation but Danny literally IS appropriating a culture and threw the community away to fend for itself.
@David Watt but he wasn't even a main character. He was a secondary character at best. Plus, it's not like the Marvel TV Shows were relying purely on star power. Charlie Cox's biggest role prior to Daredevil was Stardust, which was almost 8 years old at that point, Krysten Ritter had spent years playing secondary characters in TV shows, with her biggest role as the B**** in Apartment 23, and Mike Colter's biggest role was Sgt. Locke in a Halo miniseries. The people who were going to watch Iron Fist didn't care about the fact that Finn Jones played Loras Tyrell - they wanted to see kung fu, and I don't think it would have mattered who they picked... as long as they could actually fight.
My personal thought on why they hired Finn Jones, was purely cuz this was the time frame where EVERYBODY wanted people from Game of Thrones. Jessica Henwick was also on GoT, but clearly she actually cared and did her due diligence for Iron Fist which lead to her being the only good thing about the show.
@@ryanmussell739 I forgot what article i was reading but it talked about how she actually did audition for Rey and you know what I liked Daisy but i personally feel Jessica would have been just as if not better.
I feel for the actor playing Tank, I think he was entirely correct: The character of Tank was of extreme importance to the plot and narrative of The Matrix and he should have developed and taken a major role in the sequels. The whole purpose of Neo's quest is (supposedly) the liberation of humanity from the slavery of the machines. His character was the living embodiment of said purpose, the avatar of the end goal, a human born free. And yet he was relegated to a one note character and killed unceremoniously.
Tank being a free range human didn't make him particularly important, his brother was too. To say he was "relegated to a one note character" is bizarre considering he ranges from comic relief to vengeful killer in the movie, but ultimately he's a minor supporting character and the story of Neo didn't have any real use for him beyond what we got.
Captain Marvel and Uncle Ben are the only Marvel characters I can think of who died and never came back. And I mean the alien Mar-Vel Captain Marvel. Who got cancer and died.
In defense of Jessica Jones, I liked her portrayal of the character. Alot my psychological and emotional, with less emphasis on the brawling. And at the point her story that you see, she doesn't seem to have fought anything stronger than the average man. She wouldn't need any technique to fight the average man.
@JogVodka yeah i guess people just wanted to see amazing fight choreography from a character thats an alcoholic with serious mental issues and super strength whos never been actually challenged physically. 😂
I think Finn Jones earned every bit of shade he's gotten here and elsewhere; not showing up for training disrespects not only the people who agreed to train you, but the stunt performers that have to try to make you look good anyway and the crew that have to bend over backwards to salvage a shot that makes you look like you got chops. In regards to Mike Colter, however, I think you're being a bit unfair. That look he had in season 1 isn't just a product of conditioning, but of pre-shoot dehydration(It's an industry-wide problem, not just in Luke Cage), and I was actually relieved that they stopped doing that for season 2.
I would like to point out that it is a real skill to be able to tell what your opponent will do next in martial arts. You can learn to spot certain muscle movements that usually lead to specific moves, and combat it almost before they began if you're fast enough, which looks from the outside a whole lot like reading the mind of their opponent or seeing the future.
The Baki series did this with Yujiro Hanma and the oldest martial artist in China. The latter was SO GOOD at martial arts and controlling his body, that he chose to "die" right before the former punched his head off.
i cant remember where it comes from but my favorite quote about characters dying is "in sci-fi no ones dead until their DNA is expunged from the universe and even then there's time travel"
The fight I think it’s so noticeable is with the drunk guard as the actor who did the drunk fighter is trained fighting iron fist and it’s just visible.
Lewis Tan played the Drunken Master Zhou Cheng. He was supposed to be cast as Iron Fist, but at the last minute was replaced by Finn Jones. Big mistake on Marvels part if you ask me, it would have been a great show if they put him in the role.
Shang Chi is actually considered purely martial art-wise the best in marvel comics Wolverine, however, is considered the best teacher of martial arts but that one is more debatable. In Dc Comic its probably Lady Shiva
I do think it's funny that Oliver Queen's sister and Danny Rand' sister had the exact same "my father was a bastard" heel turn where they got bob haircuts and started dressing in black
As someone who's a huge fan of martial arts cinema, the fact that they chose the guy because of his association with another big-name show (because let's be honest...), was ridiculous. Firstly, no one cared, in the ENTIRE world, that the guy who played Loras Tyrell... was leading a show. No one. There was no extra clout to be gained by his casting. So, why not cast an actual martial actor? There are SO many fantastic martial actors in the world, who they could've given that role to, and gotten phenomenal choreography out of it.
The best part is that its very visible that Finn did not train at all. You can learn how to do proper kicks and a punches in couple minutes. It takes around 5 minutes to get flexible enough to pull of kicks properly.(they will be pretty much useless in a real fight but they look cool.). Like that security guards scene just needed two low kicks and one punch and Finn being more aggressive and it would look good but from the look of how it was cut Finn had not even memorized choreography because after every move there was a cut.
The weird thing about casting Finn Jones isn't that he didn't have prior martial arts training, it's that he wasn't that great of an actor in the role. I could understand training an actor to fight after casting them, if it's a situation where the actor is going to be great in the role, but he was only slightly better at acting than he was fighting.
Iron Fist has always been in my top five favorite characters. It really sucks that the actor didn't rise to the occasion. I feel like Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds really showed us how it's done, get someone who is a fan of the character they are playing.
@@no.1spidey-fan182I mean it didn’t stop Jessica from showing out. Finn could’ve very easily picked up Wing Chun or any other form of Kung Fu in his spare time to be prepared for the role
I think Stephen Amell could do a good iron fist, at least I think he would train for the role, really sucks that Finn Jones didn't want to learn, if I had the opportunity to learn martials arts paid for me I would take that in heartbeat. The only moment I liked iron fist, was in the duo with Luke cage on the drug bust, for those few minutes it actually felt there was something there, and the it ended.
also i wanna point out, Finn Jones did not refuse to train, this lie was perpetuated by some stunt coordinator said "the actor refused to train" among other reasons the first season did poorly, but what happened to finn, was, he had three weaks of training, and it was the first and only training he ever had in kung fu, but once they started filming he said he was working 14 hours a day sometimes into the night and did not have time to train, plus you CANNOT train on a lack of sleep, or bad diet, or under lots of work stress cuz the training will not work and will not take hold, the only actors who do that, are probably on something to keep themselves going, it's like saying the rock can keep that physique with his filming schedule, it's obvious he's on stuff to keep his body up, only a fool would think otherwise, so no, finn did not refuse to train he simply could not, now you might say "why didn't he train in martial arts already if he was gonna get the part" most actors are APPROCHED by studios, so really what you SHOULD be saying is, "why didn't marvel FIND A MARTIAL ARTS ACTOR, to play the part" they could have died scott adkin's hair blonde, and it'd have been fine
21:00 This part was hilarious to me because, when they briefly mentioned Luke Cage earlier in the video, my ADHD brain thought back to the show and was like "It was so funny in that show, when asked to describe who wrecked house, someone's like 'he was fine...' and they instantly knew it was Luke Cage!" Hilarious, but also... Fair enough 🤣
Iron Fist (recast by someone who actually trains) and Shang Chi should be in a movie together they could be awesome team up. Second best would be power man (aka Luke Cage) and Iron Fist (recast)
I know one of the stunt choreographers, who reported that Jessica Henwick was always first into the dojo and the last to leave, but Finn Jones almost never showed up and broke down into tears within minutes whenever he did. Dis-gustink.
Loved the Ryu unique line from UMVC3 lol. Also, one thing I would like to correct is that the main story for the iron fist TV show has a few significant differences from the comic book in that Orson Randall is not a titular villain. They also failed to show fins mother, being eaten alive by wolves part of the comic book origin.
Wasn’t the quote actually “the only characters in comics that stay dead are Uncle Ben, Bucky and Jason Todd.”? It wasn’t specific to Marvel, but to comics in general, hence Jason Todd’s inclusion (although like Bucky, he too got brought back).
@@lordofuzkulak8308 Counting alternate timelines isn't fair cause that would mean Uncle Ben has been revived several times. Hell he even became a Spider-Man hinself in multiple universes😂
I was sitting over here wondering why your subscriber count is sooooo low after all these years even though you have one of the most entertaining way of presenting topics in an educational way. You do pretty solid research, and you're very entertaining...... I was thinking this as I realized I was not subscribed. SMH fixed it.
When you have a show that uses a mu ren zhuang (wing-chung dummy) as a punching bag in a dojo that teaches Kenjutsu, you just know you're dealing with people who care about getting every little detail right.
The whole "Who would win is whoever the writer likes" is honestly the biggest thing. Even talking about who the best fighters are, Marvel has lots of different people who it states. Captain America is "The best close quarters fighter," Iron Fist is "The best martial artist," and of course Taskmaster has hax that let him clap anyone. They can find a million ways to say someone else is the best if they really want to.
19:00 Before the Iron Fist, another character called Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt had the same origin. White kid in plane crashes in Tibet, parents killed, white kid gets trained by monks. While he's not specifically a martial artist, his power was using 100% of his physical and mental abilities, so he could look like he's a ninja, but he's just really fast and strong and smart.
Wow...I use to watch this channel all the time and somehow just forgot about it until this video randomly popped up. Now I'm excited to go see what all I've missed.
wierd thing, the other day i saw you in Sheffield by infirmary road tram stop. wanted to say hi but i was busy driving the tram. just wanted to say always love the videos you put out.
Real talk in og dragon ball, didn't roshi basically do ultra instinct pose during the martial arts tournament when he was in disguise against the zfighters?
My understanding of the thing with Terrence Howard not taking a pay cut was that it was based on how contracts are supposed to be awarded, with the first name signing on for a project getting paid the most which was him for Iron Man. So not wanting to take a cut when that's the standard practice makes sense.
Dude I've been tryna find this damn channel for so long! I seriously COULD NOT think of thr name lol I knew I was subscribed but never got any videos on my recommendations
Jessica Henwick is literally the only thing that kept me interested in Iron First tbh, she should definitely show up in the MCU at some point. Big L from Finn Jones not training with her lol
It's good to see y'all guys again I might even front it's been a long time totally forgot about you all lol I've been so busy with my own podcast and research other things I watch a lot of different people
I will never not be pissed at how horribly Iron Fist was handled. Like get a martial artist to play the martial artist, shouldn't be hard to figure out.
I know we are talking comics, which have their own rules, but I wanted to submit something here. As a fighter, you can have your best day and be untouchable, metaphorically speaking, or your worst day where you can’t get off the ground. My instructor would say something like “no fight is ever 100% winnable, but your training can increase tire chances.” 11:28 up to this point, I agree with all opinions
I'm not surprised it only took one day to get the John Wick fight filmed, Keanu has done enough action films, he's done the homework. Nearly all of the other actors involved are nameless thugs in the movie, so nearly everyone else on screen is a stuntman who will only be seen in this scene, so this is their only part to practice and memorize, and they have a film budget to hire people who know what they're doing. I mean, if you want to make a quality fight scene fast, you need to get the people who can. Clearly, Iron Fist mostly got the people who couldn't, and did none of the training to change that.
@@AuspiciousInothere were two seasons you’re telling me he didn’t have time to start training between season one and two? What about the defenders? Dude had like 3 years to train to put on a good showing and didn’t.
I'm honestly suprised a DB fan doesn't know about Iron Fist. He's in a way like a low-tier DB character. They can see he has a loophole he can use to attack another character's Chi/lifeforce. But Marvel shouldn't go crazy with that. If they restrained themselves they could get some cool, plausible matchups.
21:17 The reason for this is he had to dial back his training after he tore his peck. Met him at comic con and my powerlifter brother asked him how much he benched and he talked about it a bit super nice guy. Also coincidentally two random dudes in a club in season two asked him how much he benched and I like to believe that was because of us lol
I thought season two was pretty good. But good luck getting through season one. Personally, I just fast-forwarded every time people started fighting. Binged it pretty fast that way.
This video format is strange
damn, pin of shame a year later
@ No shame at all, "strange" is not a negative thing in my POV.
Hmm found this around the same time
I fully agree, I like it but it's very very strange when you've been watching similiar ways of making videos for years on youtube 😅😅
You're strange and hard to watch so stop being a hater and saying nothing but cap. And you know you're capping because it's all you know how to do
The dumbest part is they chose not to use the cowl, an integral part of the iron fist costume, and the cowl would have allowed them to have a stunt man with a similar body type do the fighting with the cowl on 🤦
+
an obvious but sensible fit to the whole mess.
Just bafflingly stupid decision making we wouldn't see again from marvel to that level until phase 4...
I think the dumbest thing about that show was the Danny Rand drinking game. Drink every time his name is said, and if you aren't passed out by episode 3, you win a trip to the hospital to get your stomach pumped.
@@joshjones9749 now that you mention it, Iron Gist really does feel like a phase 4 production lmao
It should have been a contractual obligation that whoever took the role of Iron Fist had to train and learn martial arts to an extremely advanced degree. The moment Finn Jones didn't want to they should have let him go and recast.
I heard that's not the case but its actually that they gave him so little time to train in the first season because production was so shit
Definitely. Either get someone with an ounce of the work ethic of Keanu Reeves, or someone who is already a martial artist willing to train to be like if not already a master.
Surely it would have been easier to find a martial artist who could act well, than it was to train Finn Jones to do martial arts. I get that an unknown might not pull the same audience and they might not want to entrust a whole show to an untested actor, but it's not like Finn Jones was an A-lister - he was a secondary character (at best) in Game of Thrones.
Or choosing a master martial artist in the first place. Its not like they expect deep character acting. Just a humble dude. So they can actually just play themselves
Or at the very least he should've worn the fucking mask more so they could get a real trained double like Daredevil
My biggest pet peeve, as a Muay Thai coach, is Finn would've broken his hand trying to punch with that weak wrist and alignment.
At least hire an Iron Fist that can make a decent fricking fist.
How can you not attend training? Damn having the chance to have a marvel team getting me in shape is like a dream
Seriously. Some of the skill sets these actors get just from prepping for films is stuff most people dream of.
it seems he only had 3 weeks of time.
@@aaronmontgomery2055 And he had to pay for his own martial arts training between seasons just to be less crap. I think he does have other training, but very little of that was incorporated.
Netflix team
@Metal Sign I mean, none of the show actors have the movie body types I've noticed. Even Luke cages s1 body was sustainable.
I read the title and immediately thought "oh no Karl's about to crap on Iron Fist show" and then remembered how bad that show was and realized it needs to be knocked again and again.
Master of All Martial Arts.
Or
Blind Guy reenacting the Old Boy sequence.
@@MsTalia1 Blind guy, all the way.
Nah it was fine, the first series anyway. The fight scenes would have been stupid if they went all Crouching Tiger in the dark gritty realistic world they were basing it all in.
What's amusing is that the fights as a result look far more like what a random street fight between two people of any level within martial arts would actually be.
Second series was poorly put together, but the fighting was the probably the second dumbest complaint about the show.
It was indeed horrible.
@@wyterabitt2149 As an absolute fight scene junkie...it was awful lol and poor choreography, planning and editing are the 3 things that make fight scenes suck. Iron fist was cursed with the full trifecta.
When I was in Uni my stage combat tutor said he was taught by the same person who taught Jones when he was in acting school. According to him, Jones never took stage combat seriously saying he would never need to use it in the future. Yeah really. It doesn't surprise me that he didn't train.
Well who'd guess that from a gay lover, he'd be getting a lead role in an action series...
Me when I lie. The guy didn’t get time to train so idk how you’re just pulling that out of thin air
@@eghoseisiramen1892if he went to acting school, he had time to train stage combat. It's part of the course.
@@catsabotage3362 He’s not talking about acting school, he’s talking about the time he was given to train for the show.
the fight between Steve Roger and the Winter Soldier i have watched quite a number of times. its more fun to know that during rehearsal, you can see the actors actually going *faster* in their knife fight, but obviously there's a slowdown in the movie
It really irked me how out of place Iron Fist looked in the series. He barely did any fighting at all. And they made him look like an absolute fail as a martial artist.
It's like he was the last actor to show up on set which doesn't make a lick of sense from a planning perspective. If his schedule was that packed then clearly going with him was a mistake.
@@joshjones9749 His schedule wasn't even packed 😂 Charlie Cox who plays Daredevil also had to work within Netflix's tight schedule, he was cast in the same 4 month window from casting to filming yet he managed to deliver on the stunt work, with his stunt double praising him for doing a lot of his own stunts. Finn Jones is just inept and an absolute miscast. I hate the excuse for him that he "had to learn a lot of lines as the lead" well guess what, so did Charlie Cox and he managed to do both phenomenally.
I think the drone scene from Far From Home is the best portrayal of how strong Spidersense is in video media
Or his literally soulless body still reacting to Dr. Strange.
@@michaelryan3818 It was fun and I have no complaints about it, but it's not accurate to the comics. The Spider-sense gives him a heads-up, it doesn't move for him.
@@drake1360 normally inwould agree, but he was still technically concious, so i think it still sorta works because he didnt want to give Strange the box, its also intetesting that you could see the classic wave in the air around peters head in the spirt world
@@ravenreaper754 It's not a matter of whether or not he is conscious, it's whether or not he is able to act on the information that the spider-sense gave him, which he could not in that scene.
@drake1360 except that's what happens...in the movie. So....
In the comics, Daredevil has a better win/loss ratio than anyone else who fights Iron Fist. His radar sense has, many times, been stayed to basically just be a better spider-sense
Yes, but unlike Spider Sense it is localized.
Depends when you are talking about. At base level, I'd tend to agree but the evolution of spiders sense becomes god level in later comics
And yet, Bullseye has never knocked out Spiderman with a paper plane.
Daredevil has too many (anti)feats that go against his radar sense.
I mean if we're counting all anti-feats of a character, I'm 90% sure Spidey has more than DD but also I see that as more of a Bullseye feat than a DD anti-feats
DD's radar sense can feel Spot's portals open before they actually open. As Dooma said, it's quite easy to overstimulate the Spider-Sense, which imo is another point taken away from Spider Sense as it does sometimes leave Peter immobile and incapable of defending himself. Plus there are other ways to get around the Spider Sense. If you're faster than Peter it don't go off in time (despite having super human reflexes) versus Daredevil who has peak human reaction, would be able to sense the attack, he just couldn't do anything about it, meaning he can prepare to minimise damage taken rather than just getting jumped.
@dooma3588 Idk, I agree that Spidey has the physical stat advantage, but similarly to Spidey, Daredevil is known for fighting people way above his league...like that one tone he fought Ultron and survived until he had a mental breakdown of the machine kind. Plus, if we're counting his time with The Hand, Matt has a lot more experience killing
I still say Spidey wins most of the time but it's more like a 7-8/10 times imo
I reckon the real cause of this is actually Scott Buck, aka. the man who ruined Dexter. Scott Buck was the showrunner for Iron Fist and Eternals, at the behest of Ike Perlmutter (who has just been yeeted from Marvel entirely). This was because he has a reputation for shooting cheaply and Perlmutter is legendarily cheap (He was also the one who got rid of Terence Howard because he's also super racist and figured the audience wouldn't notice if a black guy changed, and he wanted Hulk to lead the pro-registration side in Civil War because Mark Ruffalo was cheaper than RDJ. That was the final straw for Kevin Feige to go to the top at Disney and demand that Perlmutter be removed from any oversight of the movies or he would quit). That's almost certainly why things like "learn this shit" wasn't a contractual obligation, because they would have had to pay more.
He's also super spiteful, the reason the X-Men spent most of the 2010s being shat on in the comics and they kept trying to push the Inhumans so hard is 100% because he was bitter that Marvel didn't have the movie rights to them.
I think Buck worked on Inhumans, not Eternals - similar names and Kirby origin, very different execution in the MCU.
Super
Very insightful and good comment, but my god man let your reader breathe (and not get memory loss on the topic at-hand) in those brackets.
I always wished they had used the "drunken fist" guy Danny fought. In fact, they could have just switched roles.
Yes his name is Lewis Tan and he did auditioned for the role buy they didn't gave it to him because "iron fist is not asian" funny enough after the series ended in the comics Danny rand lost his powers and the New Iron Fist IS Asian, Lin Lei and I hope they use that Iron Fist in the canon MCU
Hell I hope they cast Tan in the role
@@CarlosHernandez-xo7js yeah because a privileged white boy from Manhattan is the perfect person to protect Chinatown. Couldve made him halfasian and it mightve made sense.
@@damienthetexasian6827 you do realize that Danny does not protect them. He literally fucking abandons them. And they all die because of it. Where does the protecting come from this?
@@frostbite2179 what are you talking about, "protect him"?
Luke cage protects Harlem
Daredevil protects Hells Kitchen
Jessica Jones protects Manhattan
Iron fist protects Chinatown, ....perfect casting
@@damienthetexasian6827 Yeah people weaponize Cultural Appropriation but Danny literally IS appropriating a culture and threw the community away to fend for itself.
I don't get why they didn't hire someone who already had martial arts on their CV/resume at least
If Scott Atkins was younger he’d be perfect.
The drunken master in the first season? He has martial arts training and was up for the role of Iron Fist. Whelp. What could have been.
Two words. Dragon Show.
@David Watt but he wasn't even a main character. He was a secondary character at best.
Plus, it's not like the Marvel TV Shows were relying purely on star power. Charlie Cox's biggest role prior to Daredevil was Stardust, which was almost 8 years old at that point, Krysten Ritter had spent years playing secondary characters in TV shows, with her biggest role as the B**** in Apartment 23, and Mike Colter's biggest role was Sgt. Locke in a Halo miniseries. The people who were going to watch Iron Fist didn't care about the fact that Finn Jones played Loras Tyrell - they wanted to see kung fu, and I don't think it would have mattered who they picked... as long as they could actually fight.
because people will watch anything if you have actors from game of thrones
My personal thought on why they hired Finn Jones, was purely cuz this was the time frame where EVERYBODY wanted people from Game of Thrones. Jessica Henwick was also on GoT, but clearly she actually cared and did her due diligence for Iron Fist which lead to her being the only good thing about the show.
Yes
Same as the Star Wars sequels. They wanted game of thrones actors
Her and the actor that played Ward were the only characters that made me keep watching the 2 seasons, everything else was just mediocre
@@ryanmussell739 I forgot what article i was reading but it talked about how she actually did audition for Rey and you know what I liked Daisy but i personally feel Jessica would have been just as if not better.
damn, i totally missed that he was Loras
If the stories I heard are right Jessica also auditioned for Rey and now I wouldn't have mind seeing her as a Jedi
I feel for the actor playing Tank, I think he was entirely correct: The character of Tank was of extreme importance to the plot and narrative of The Matrix and he should have developed and taken a major role in the sequels. The whole purpose of Neo's quest is (supposedly) the liberation of humanity from the slavery of the machines. His character was the living embodiment of said purpose, the avatar of the end goal, a human born free. And yet he was relegated to a one note character and killed unceremoniously.
Marcus Chong is his name. And yes, he is Tommy Chong's son.
Tank being a free range human didn't make him particularly important, his brother was too. To say he was "relegated to a one note character" is bizarre considering he ranges from comic relief to vengeful killer in the movie, but ultimately he's a minor supporting character and the story of Neo didn't have any real use for him beyond what we got.
If I hired someone and they basically refused to do the training for the job, I would fire them. There was zero reason to keep him on the project.
The actor that didn't need to be trained to be one of the most powerful martial artists in Marvel would have to be Wesley Snipes playing Blade.
Captain Marvel and Uncle Ben are the only Marvel characters I can think of who died and never came back.
And I mean the alien Mar-Vel Captain Marvel. Who got cancer and died.
In defense of Jessica Jones, I liked her portrayal of the character. Alot my psychological and emotional, with less emphasis on the brawling. And at the point her story that you see, she doesn't seem to have fought anything stronger than the average man. She wouldn't need any technique to fight the average man.
Yeah I remember when Defenders came out the people behind the scenes called her fighting style as a "potato bag"
@JogVodka yeah i guess people just wanted to see amazing fight choreography from a character thats an alcoholic with serious mental issues and super strength whos never been actually challenged physically. 😂
@@imgingergiraffe3731I think we just wanted it to be fun to watch and not look like b tier wire work.
It's amazing how the people that actually worked hard at their job are the MCU Television characters that I like the most.
I think Finn Jones earned every bit of shade he's gotten here and elsewhere; not showing up for training disrespects not only the people who agreed to train you, but the stunt performers that have to try to make you look good anyway and the crew that have to bend over backwards to salvage a shot that makes you look like you got chops.
In regards to Mike Colter, however, I think you're being a bit unfair. That look he had in season 1 isn't just a product of conditioning, but of pre-shoot dehydration(It's an industry-wide problem, not just in Luke Cage), and I was actually relieved that they stopped doing that for season 2.
I would like to point out that it is a real skill to be able to tell what your opponent will do next in martial arts. You can learn to spot certain muscle movements that usually lead to specific moves, and combat it almost before they began if you're fast enough, which looks from the outside a whole lot like reading the mind of their opponent or seeing the future.
It sums up to that one line from Kung Pow being "we trained him wrong as a joke"
The Baki series did this with Yujiro Hanma and the oldest martial artist in China. The latter was SO GOOD at martial arts and controlling his body, that he chose to "die" right before the former punched his head off.
i cant remember where it comes from but my favorite quote about characters dying is "in sci-fi no ones dead until their DNA is expunged from the universe and even then there's time travel"
Meanwhile Charlie Cox could do most of his own stunts and would act with special contacts so he's basically blind for real.
Nah he took them out right after testing them. He said that it was way too difficult to work with them. But everything else that you said was right.
The fight I think it’s so noticeable is with the drunk guard as the actor who did the drunk fighter is trained fighting iron fist and it’s just visible.
Lewis Tan played the Drunken Master Zhou Cheng. He was supposed to be cast as Iron Fist, but at the last minute was replaced by Finn Jones. Big mistake on Marvels part if you ask me, it would have been a great show if they put him in the role.
Shang Chi is actually considered purely martial art-wise the best in marvel comics Wolverine, however, is considered the best teacher of martial arts but that one is more debatable. In Dc Comic its probably Lady Shiva
Keanu Reeves is a black belt in Judo and has belts in several other martial arts. Finn Jones looks like he barely exercises.
I do think it's funny that Oliver Queen's sister and Danny Rand' sister had the exact same "my father was a bastard" heel turn where they got bob haircuts and started dressing in black
For me, the scene that always comes to mind is the ladder fight scene from Jackie Chan’s “First Strike.”
Jiren can punch people with his eyes... possibly the funniest thing I've ever seen. Ok not ever but still pretty good.
As someone who's a huge fan of martial arts cinema, the fact that they chose the guy because of his association with another big-name show (because let's be honest...), was ridiculous. Firstly, no one cared, in the ENTIRE world, that the guy who played Loras Tyrell... was leading a show. No one. There was no extra clout to be gained by his casting. So, why not cast an actual martial actor? There are SO many fantastic martial actors in the world, who they could've given that role to, and gotten phenomenal choreography out of it.
I will say, the scenes with Luke Cage and Iron Fist fighting to Wu Tang was actually pretty dope.
I hated it. But because we only got one small taste of Heroes for Hire...
Jessica Henwick is awesome and gets very dedicated to her roles. She was my first pick for a live action Sabine Wren.
Iron fist is my favorite superhero of all time. I died when they did this to my boy. Finn is a monster.
The best part is that its very visible that Finn did not train at all. You can learn how to do proper kicks and a punches in couple minutes. It takes around 5 minutes to get flexible enough to pull of kicks properly.(they will be pretty much useless in a real fight but they look cool.). Like that security guards scene just needed two low kicks and one punch and Finn being more aggressive and it would look good but from the look of how it was cut Finn had not even memorized choreography because after every move there was a cut.
He wasn't trained
*that time Netflix didn't train the best fighter in a mcu adjacent universe how to fight
The weird thing about casting Finn Jones isn't that he didn't have prior martial arts training, it's that he wasn't that great of an actor in the role. I could understand training an actor to fight after casting them, if it's a situation where the actor is going to be great in the role, but he was only slightly better at acting than he was fighting.
this is a good point. he seemed to deride the whole thing. much of his delivery felt sarcastic
Dude, Rossi dodged like 8 shots from Jiren since Jiren wasn’t taking him seriously. As soon as he did, he one-shotted Roshi
Iron Fist has always been in my top five favorite characters. It really sucks that the actor didn't rise to the occasion. I feel like Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds really showed us how it's done, get someone who is a fan of the character they are playing.
Hugh and Ryan were also working on Multmillion dollar projects. From reading the comments the showrunner for Iron Fist was a cheapskate😂
@@no.1spidey-fan182I mean it didn’t stop Jessica from showing out. Finn could’ve very easily picked up Wing Chun or any other form of Kung Fu in his spare time to be prepared for the role
I think Stephen Amell could do a good iron fist, at least I think he would train for the role, really sucks that Finn Jones didn't want to learn, if I had the opportunity to learn martials arts paid for me I would take that in heartbeat. The only moment I liked iron fist, was in the duo with Luke cage on the drug bust, for those few minutes it actually felt there was something there, and the it ended.
also i wanna point out, Finn Jones did not refuse to train, this lie was perpetuated by some stunt coordinator said "the actor refused to train" among other reasons the first season did poorly, but what happened to finn, was, he had three weaks of training, and it was the first and only training he ever had in kung fu, but once they started filming he said he was working 14 hours a day sometimes into the night and did not have time to train, plus you CANNOT train on a lack of sleep, or bad diet, or under lots of work stress cuz the training will not work and will not take hold, the only actors who do that, are probably on something to keep themselves going, it's like saying the rock can keep that physique with his filming schedule, it's obvious he's on stuff to keep his body up, only a fool would think otherwise, so no, finn did not refuse to train he simply could not, now you might say "why didn't he train in martial arts already if he was gonna get the part" most actors are APPROCHED by studios, so really what you SHOULD be saying is, "why didn't marvel FIND A MARTIAL ARTS ACTOR, to play the part" they could have died scott adkin's hair blonde, and it'd have been fine
Roshi lacks the strength and endurance to beat Goku, but he could stand his ground for a while, which is still really impressive.
For me, Ward Meachum's story arc was the best thing that show had.
21:00 This part was hilarious to me because, when they briefly mentioned Luke Cage earlier in the video, my ADHD brain thought back to the show and was like "It was so funny in that show, when asked to describe who wrecked house, someone's like 'he was fine...' and they instantly knew it was Luke Cage!" Hilarious, but also... Fair enough 🤣
I'll never understand why they didn't cast someone that already had a background in martial arts to play a martial arts master
Cost more money
Iron Fist (recast by someone who actually trains) and Shang Chi should be in a movie together they could be awesome team up. Second best would be power man (aka Luke Cage) and Iron Fist (recast)
What they did to Iron Fist is unforgivable.
I know one of the stunt choreographers, who reported that Jessica Henwick was always first into the dojo and the last to leave, but Finn Jones almost never showed up and broke down into tears within minutes whenever he did.
Dis-gustink.
Loved the Ryu unique line from UMVC3 lol.
Also, one thing I would like to correct is that the main story for the iron fist TV show has a few significant differences from the comic book in that Orson Randall is not a titular villain. They also failed to show fins mother, being eaten alive by wolves part of the comic book origin.
I loved the bit where Misty Knight and Colleen Wing met and made fun of Nightwing
Wasn’t the quote actually “the only characters in comics that stay dead are Uncle Ben, Bucky and Jason Todd.”? It wasn’t specific to Marvel, but to comics in general, hence Jason Todd’s inclusion (although like Bucky, he too got brought back).
I guess a better example would be the Wayne's, and uncle ben
@@panopticon7883 well, even the Waynes were brought back in the Flashpoint timeline. 🤷🏻♂️
@@lordofuzkulak8308 Counting alternate timelines isn't fair cause that would mean Uncle Ben has been revived several times. Hell he even became a Spider-Man hinself in multiple universes😂
This feels like the 2018 version of the channel. It warms my heart
10:55 Ironically, the best showcase of Iron Fist's powers in the whole show
Oh no 😂
On a tangent, the powers and skill sets of Hit and Jiren still confuse me to this day.
It'S a DiFfErEnT uNiVeRsE
Sorry, I do completely agree with you lmao
Yeah they're confusing.
Hit can manipulate energy to briefly stop time, and Jiren can bullshit reality to his will
@@NinjaTyler to quote Alucard, "I know it's filthy rich coming from me, but your powers are bullshit!"
Seeing Mike and Jay in a Fact Fiend video really subverted my expectations
Bless y'all for showing my favorite scene from The Raid.
12:15 And here we are with RDJ coming back.
I was sitting over here wondering why your subscriber count is sooooo low after all these years even though you have one of the most entertaining way of presenting topics in an educational way. You do pretty solid research, and you're very entertaining...... I was thinking this as I realized I was not subscribed. SMH fixed it.
When you have a show that uses a mu ren zhuang (wing-chung dummy) as a punching bag in a dojo that teaches Kenjutsu, you just know you're dealing with people who care about getting every little detail right.
The whole "Who would win is whoever the writer likes" is honestly the biggest thing. Even talking about who the best fighters are, Marvel has lots of different people who it states.
Captain America is "The best close quarters fighter," Iron Fist is "The best martial artist," and of course Taskmaster has hax that let him clap anyone. They can find a million ways to say someone else is the best if they really want to.
19:00 Before the Iron Fist, another character called Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt had the same origin. White kid in plane crashes in Tibet, parents killed, white kid gets trained by monks. While he's not specifically a martial artist, his power was using 100% of his physical and mental abilities, so he could look like he's a ninja, but he's just really fast and strong and smart.
Saying Charlie Cox and Jon Bernthal are the only ones who cared is awesome, cause those are the two best Marvel shows.
Not tryna be a snob but “aikido master” is like “special forces mall cop”
Wow...I use to watch this channel all the time and somehow just forgot about it until this video randomly popped up. Now I'm excited to go see what all I've missed.
Hey Karl, I just had to tell you that your videos are so good that I sometimes get lost in them and completely forget about my school projects!
wierd thing, the other day i saw you in Sheffield by infirmary road tram stop. wanted to say hi but i was busy driving the tram. just wanted to say always love the videos you put out.
Real talk in og dragon ball, didn't roshi basically do ultra instinct pose during the martial arts tournament when he was in disguise against the zfighters?
so happy you guys are back to drinking videos
Dude this is the first time you showed up in my recs in at least 6 months!!!!!!!!
Just came to your channel and I’m loving this raw intro
23:15 who's watching this after the announcement of RDJ as Doom?
My understanding of the thing with Terrence Howard not taking a pay cut was that it was based on how contracts are supposed to be awarded, with the first name signing on for a project getting paid the most which was him for Iron Man. So not wanting to take a cut when that's the standard practice makes sense.
Dude I've been tryna find this damn channel for so long! I seriously COULD NOT think of thr name lol I knew I was subscribed but never got any videos on my recommendations
Jessica Henwick is literally the only thing that kept me interested in Iron First tbh, she should definitely show up in the MCU at some point. Big L from Finn Jones not training with her lol
It's good to see y'all guys again I might even front it's been a long time totally forgot about you all lol I've been so busy with my own podcast and research other things I watch a lot of different people
Hearing about martial arts from fact fiend makes me proud to be a martial artist
I keep forgetting this dude isn't Bo Burnham.
Shang Chi would wipe the floor with this version of Iron Fist's face
I will never not be pissed at how horribly Iron Fist was handled. Like get a martial artist to play the martial artist, shouldn't be hard to figure out.
I will always remember the crackhead guy from breaking bad as the ptsd suffering soldier in deep space nine.
I know we are talking comics, which have their own rules, but I wanted to submit something here. As a fighter, you can have your best day and be untouchable, metaphorically speaking, or your worst day where you can’t get off the ground. My instructor would say something like “no fight is ever 100% winnable, but your training can increase tire chances.”
11:28 up to this point, I agree with all opinions
Not training for iron first is like not crying in a sad scene when it directly effects the character
WTF this guy predicted downey's return.
I'm not surprised it only took one day to get the John Wick fight filmed, Keanu has done enough action films, he's done the homework. Nearly all of the other actors involved are nameless thugs in the movie, so nearly everyone else on screen is a stuntman who will only be seen in this scene, so this is their only part to practice and memorize, and they have a film budget to hire people who know what they're doing. I mean, if you want to make a quality fight scene fast, you need to get the people who can. Clearly, Iron Fist mostly got the people who couldn't, and did none of the training to change that.
haven't seen a fact fiend video in my recommended in a while!
Imagine auditioning for a Marvel role and expecting to not train, like what was this guy thinking???
LOL Exactly!!
Supposedly the studio rushed it and he didn't have time to train.
@@gimmeyourrights8292 yep. You can tell by how wack the story itself was lmao
@@AuspiciousInothere were two seasons you’re telling me he didn’t have time to start training between season one and two? What about the defenders? Dude had like 3 years to train to put on a good showing and didn’t.
@ defenders started filming like immediately after season 1 basically
No joke, I forgot this was a channel. It just hasnt shown up on my recommendations in years.
I'm honestly suprised a DB fan doesn't know about Iron Fist. He's in a way like a low-tier DB character. They can see he has a loophole he can use to attack another character's Chi/lifeforce. But Marvel shouldn't go crazy with that. If they restrained themselves they could get some cool, plausible matchups.
Daredevil had better combat than iron fist, don't get me wrong DD can fight.... but it's FXXKING IRON FIST 🤦🏾♂️
Pretty dishonest to pin the poor action on Finn Jones, considering the fight scenes his character isn't even in are just as bad.
This was the single greatest intro ever. ^^
21:17 The reason for this is he had to dial back his training after he tore his peck. Met him at comic con and my powerlifter brother asked him how much he benched and he talked about it a bit super nice guy. Also coincidentally two random dudes in a club in season two asked him how much he benched and I like to believe that was because of us lol
When does the video start?
I don’t think it does, it just sort of continues
Thanks for leaving that intro in
I thought season two was pretty good. But good luck getting through season one. Personally, I just fast-forwarded every time people started fighting. Binged it pretty fast that way.
My favorite martial arts scene was in Kung Fu Hustle, between the three masters (Coolie, Tailor, and Donut) and the Axe Gang.
Spider-man was basically using the same radar sense that Dare Devil uses to fight as a blind man.