The best I have found so far is BVOH with 0 gap but BVOH just for the interface layer,almost all falls off anything left is water dissolvable. It's expensive but goes a mile if you leave it only on interface layer.
I used it straight out of the box with the default settings for an interface and it worked perfectly for me, I didn't dry my roll out at all. Perhaps trying a new roll or half a roll and skip the drying process.
Fun fact, you can find out what the filament is by checking the Bambu Lab MSDS. The "Bambu Support for PLA" filament is 40% TPU and 60% PLA. The "Support for PLA/PETG" is a mix of TPU and PETG, which would probably work better for PLA
Wow, I do not have the same issues and use this product a lot. Perhaps it is my setting that are different then what is recommended. I do set the support material interface however I do not use the other recomended setting i.e. zero interface. since I print a lot with .2 layer hight I use .22 gap and it works great.
That's why higher end 3d printers (Stratsys F-series) uses two nozzles at the same time, one for the pla, and one support material, then a vat to chemically melt away the support, but at $70k and above it wasn't in my budget. I also made the mistake of purchasing support material when I first bought my X1C, but after watching this will probably never use it. Great video, thanks !
weak layer bonds are probably because you weren't purging enough in between the two filaments... if something that doesn't stick to pla gets mixed in with pla, the pla will have trouble sticking to itself layer to layer.
I also got some of this support material with my x1c maybe 1.5 years ago or whenever I bought it. I still have most of it, tried to use it once. But like in this video the model snapped in half at that layer. But I don't think it's cause it cooled down, if it was it would also happen when you use multiple colors. Which I'm pretty sure is not the case. This support material seems to severely weaken the layer adhesion when it gets mixed in with regular PLA while at the same time fusing to the model in some spots and being impossible to remove.
@@atnfn that was my other issue, because it had to do a filament change it allowed the previous layer to cool more than others. So you end up with a visible line on the print of the layers that cooled differently.
Interesting. I've had (mostly) very positive experiences with that stuff. I don't bother using it if printing in PLA-CF (eSun) or PLA Metal (Bambu), as those supports seem to break away without any real effort. I suspect your troubles were largely due to the fact that the Master Chief miniature is pretty intricate. I've mainly used it on very flat overhangs. I recently used a bunch of it on a clock I designed for my office that needed a ton of support in the back because of my lousy (in terms of printability) design. Clock looks great, ran in one shot out of the AMS, so no need to glue/assemble, but the supports were a lot. Yes, there was a bit of scraping to get the more difficult bits off, but I found that once I got a good bit started, a bunch came with it. Like you, my first times out were using it for the full support, and it wasn't great. When I changed to the interface-only, with 0 z-gap and holding up actual flat surfaces, it's great. So, a mixed bag? Yeah, probably.
I would offer one more suggestion that helped me print better with this material. Purge values; this helped reduce the mixing of materials at the interface and prevented my models from developing weak spots from cross material contamination. Using a value of 750 switching to and from “support pla” material made the model quality similar to my build plate and the interface peeled off without tools (although with more force needed then a petg interface)
I am going through the same learning pains right now. PLA support works... but only marginally better than just printing in all PLA with all the issues you're pointing out now. I'm going to go place PETG order now.. begrudgingly. Nice video, thanks for sharing your findings.
@@TapticDigital Same here haha. I'm working on a model that has several delicate features that are also overhangs (a non-ideal combo) and even manually setting the support locations to minimize the amount of contact the features are breaking off so I started to investigate a different support methods. The story seems pretty consistent across all avenues though that PETG is worth a shot so I'm going to try it out this weekend hopefully when my PETG spool arrives. I can share my results here for posterity. I think PLA support has its applications, but if you are doing anything with delicate features or considerable overhangs it appears that PETG may be a better (and seemingly cheaper) solution.
I've been pretty impressed with the support material as an interface. I am not sure why you are having such trouble. I do have to poke at it a little but once loosened it peels off. I don't think PETG as it worked out for you is a good idea as it seems likely to make pieces break off your model while printing. The interface layer needs to stick a little. Ah, you used a different material. I used "Support for PLA/PETG"
@@BadSpock yup! Shortly after I released this video Bambu came out with their new support material. I haven’t tried it yet, but in fairness I don’t print many things that require support or I just design around the need for them. I’ve heard good things about the new stuff though!
I recently bought X1C and it came with the "Support for PLA/PETG". It is much better than this one in the video. It's extremely easy to remove. I'm guessing this is an older version since it looks silver colored, while the one i got is translucent.
I have some PLA support that came with my x1c, over a year ago... LOL never used it... used petg when needed on "crazy" supports.. but normally use the same support as the print and just deal with it... I do have some PVA that i have yet to try... I wonder! could be your next video LOL
I mostly use petg as a support interface too. Although I'm interested in the z height and interface layers setting you're using as this could play a huge part with true issues you are facing. Even when I'm using just pla I seem to have an easier time removing supports that you do with all of these.
Same, I've been using PLA with just the default interface settings and have had little to no issues. When I do PETG interface I set the distance to 0, that way the bottom of the supported layer is as smooth as possible.
@@jamesmontgomery9464 I’d put it about equal to just using straight PLA, if you use PETG instead as a support interface for PLA it’s incredible, works phenomenally. But I’m also lazy, so I just use the same material I’m printing with instead of a separate interface, I’ve found Bambu’s tree supports very easy to pop off most times.
I'm confused, you said it is a translation issue with bambu but it says right in your own video at 0:30 that this is for SUPPORT INTERFACE not for actual supports. This was my understanding as well.
Remove it with the help of a heat gun. Then its as good as PETG. However, the PETG may cause colour irregularities along the layers where the support PETG is printed. You would not find this problem with the support material
@@Roobotics Hey. I was printing a white piece with grey petg support. Although I had a big flush/prime tower and high flush volume after colour change, Ive noticed that the colour pigments in the petg seem to cause a colour change on the pla.
@@coalachaos6486 that's actually very interesting, I'm starting to think I've seen this now. Just hours ago I had a swap from PETG to PLA, print by part instead of print by layer, the PLA part that came off, later had some of its first layer debond, specifically the outlines that printed first.. I think they do mix while hot, and any residual in either might be bad news!
Be aware there are 2 products for PLA supports from Bambu Lab! One is pretty old (came with the printer) and does not work very good. Seems like you have that. And the new one just works. Link to their website is broken right now else I would put the link in here.
@@DanielSchweinert I still need to try their new version and see if it actually works, until then I’ve been pretty happy with PETG as a support interface
Nope! I actually tested it in water as well as alcohol, just to rule it out. It does make it separate from PLA easier, but where it does stick it stays quite firm
@@Waneklap that would work, if it were actually PVA. Compared it to PVA from Makerbot, bambu support wasn’t affected after 12hrs in water while the Makerbot PVA was completely gone.
@@TapticDigital I used Bambu Lab PVA support material last week for the first time. Used it as a support interface material only, the rest of the model and support structure was printed in BL PLA Metallic. I used the PVA fresh out of the bag, no drying, which resulted in some severe spider webbing at the top of my model, a Pythagorean tree. After printing I just dunked the model, while still on the PEI sheet, in a bowl of water for a workday. The spider webbing had completely dissolved and the other support came of real easy. Any remaining PVA stuck to the model I could easily rub off with my thumb. It was a good experience.
Hi, great video. can you please redo the test but this time, supposedly the best way to remove them is to dunk the whole thing in warm water for 24 hours (lol I know)
@@trickpixel I’m way too impatient to wait for that! I did try a good 12 hour soak of some of the support material but it made almost no effect. Might redo this video with even more testing based on the comments I’ve gotten
I was sceptical after your video, but after trying it i need to give it to you, this crap is absolute junk and should not be used. I rather have a little worse surface finish than trying to remove this white junk.
Just a tip, buy some Bumbu Translucent (clear) PETG to use as support interface. You will barely see any left over bits on models.
@@nucleochemist that’s what I’ve been using and it’s fantastic! They don’t stick together at all and it’s great
The best I have found so far is BVOH with 0 gap
but BVOH just for the interface layer,almost all
falls off anything left is water dissolvable. It's
expensive but goes a mile if you leave it only on
interface layer.
I used it straight out of the box with the default settings for an interface and it worked perfectly for me, I didn't dry my roll out at all. Perhaps trying a new roll or half a roll and skip the drying process.
Fun fact, you can find out what the filament is by checking the Bambu Lab MSDS. The "Bambu Support for PLA" filament is 40% TPU and 60% PLA. The "Support for PLA/PETG" is a mix of TPU and PETG, which would probably work better for PLA
@@anthonydesouza9983 hadn’t even thought about checking the MSDS!
Wow, I do not have the same issues and use this product a lot. Perhaps it is my setting that are different then what is recommended. I do set the support material interface however I do not use the other recomended setting i.e. zero interface. since I print a lot with .2 layer hight I use .22 gap and it works great.
@@chrisc9213 interesting, I’ll have to try it with a small gap and see if it helps!
How did it go? @@TapticDigital
@@TapticDigital people are liking my comment. Is there an update?
@@edsontovar6675 Also looking for an update from @tapticDigital!
That's why higher end 3d printers (Stratsys F-series) uses two nozzles at the same time, one for the pla, and one support material, then a vat to chemically melt away the support, but at $70k and above it wasn't in my budget. I also made the mistake of purchasing support material when I first bought my X1C, but after watching this will probably never use it. Great video, thanks !
@@timl9495 I’d still buy 50 Bambus over a Stratysis to be honest.
weak layer bonds are probably because you weren't purging enough in between the two filaments... if something that doesn't stick to pla gets mixed in with pla, the pla will have trouble sticking to itself layer to layer.
I also got some of this support material with my x1c maybe 1.5 years ago or whenever I bought it. I still have most of it, tried to use it once. But like in this video the model snapped in half at that layer. But I don't think it's cause it cooled down, if it was it would also happen when you use multiple colors. Which I'm pretty sure is not the case. This support material seems to severely weaken the layer adhesion when it gets mixed in with regular PLA while at the same time fusing to the model in some spots and being impossible to remove.
@@atnfn that was my other issue, because it had to do a filament change it allowed the previous layer to cool more than others. So you end up with a visible line on the print of the layers that cooled differently.
Interesting. I've had (mostly) very positive experiences with that stuff. I don't bother using it if printing in PLA-CF (eSun) or PLA Metal (Bambu), as those supports seem to break away without any real effort. I suspect your troubles were largely due to the fact that the Master Chief miniature is pretty intricate. I've mainly used it on very flat overhangs. I recently used a bunch of it on a clock I designed for my office that needed a ton of support in the back because of my lousy (in terms of printability) design. Clock looks great, ran in one shot out of the AMS, so no need to glue/assemble, but the supports were a lot. Yes, there was a bit of scraping to get the more difficult bits off, but I found that once I got a good bit started, a bunch came with it. Like you, my first times out were using it for the full support, and it wasn't great. When I changed to the interface-only, with 0 z-gap and holding up actual flat surfaces, it's great. So, a mixed bag? Yeah, probably.
I would offer one more suggestion that helped me print better with this material. Purge values; this helped reduce the mixing of materials at the interface and prevented my models from developing weak spots from cross material contamination. Using a value of 750 switching to and from “support pla” material made the model quality similar to my build plate and the interface peeled off without tools (although with more force needed then a petg interface)
@@TheFunVampire yesss this is the kind of scientific approach I need to be trying, I’ll give that one a try thank you!
@@TapticDigital good luck!! 👍
I am going through the same learning pains right now. PLA support works... but only marginally better than just printing in all PLA with all the issues you're pointing out now. I'm going to go place PETG order now.. begrudgingly. Nice video, thanks for sharing your findings.
Despite what I said in the video, I still haven’t full given up. But I am quite disappointed each time I try.
@@TapticDigital Same here haha. I'm working on a model that has several delicate features that are also overhangs (a non-ideal combo) and even manually setting the support locations to minimize the amount of contact the features are breaking off so I started to investigate a different support methods. The story seems pretty consistent across all avenues though that PETG is worth a shot so I'm going to try it out this weekend hopefully when my PETG spool arrives. I can share my results here for posterity. I think PLA support has its applications, but if you are doing anything with delicate features or considerable overhangs it appears that PETG may be a better (and seemingly cheaper) solution.
I've been pretty impressed with the support material as an interface. I am not sure why you are having such trouble. I do have to poke at it a little but once loosened it peels off.
I don't think PETG as it worked out for you is a good idea as it seems likely to make pieces break off your model while printing. The interface layer needs to stick a little.
Ah, you used a different material. I used "Support for PLA/PETG"
@@BadSpock yup! Shortly after I released this video Bambu came out with their new support material. I haven’t tried it yet, but in fairness I don’t print many things that require support or I just design around the need for them. I’ve heard good things about the new stuff though!
I recently bought X1C and it came with the "Support for PLA/PETG". It is much better than this one in the video. It's extremely easy to remove. I'm guessing this is an older version since it looks silver colored, while the one i got is translucent.
@@changeformer yup! They released the new version about a month or two after I got my printer.
I have some PLA support that came with my x1c, over a year ago... LOL never used it... used petg when needed on "crazy" supports.. but normally use the same support as the print and just deal with it... I do have some PVA that i have yet to try... I wonder! could be your next video LOL
@@jakeMTSU water-soluble supports feel like magic when they work
I mostly use petg as a support interface too.
Although I'm interested in the z height and interface layers setting you're using as this could play a huge part with true issues you are facing.
Even when I'm using just pla I seem to have an easier time removing supports that you do with all of these.
Same, I've been using PLA with just the default interface settings and have had little to no issues. When I do PETG interface I set the distance to 0, that way the bottom of the supported layer is as smooth as possible.
@@TapticDigital I also set the top interface pattern to concentric, almost like printing strait on the bed
thanks for this video, I got a free roll of it with the x1 combo, guess I'll just use the spool for the refill orders of PETG :)
@@BojanSusic-qi4qn that’s what I’m doing and the results are amazing!
i got a spool with my X1 carbon about a year ago and just now looked to see how to use it... looks like i never will.
@@jamesmontgomery9464 I’d put it about equal to just using straight PLA, if you use PETG instead as a support interface for PLA it’s incredible, works phenomenally. But I’m also lazy, so I just use the same material I’m printing with instead of a separate interface, I’ve found Bambu’s tree supports very easy to pop off most times.
Good video! Thank you!!
top z hight in support settings set it to 0.273 makes it easier to get off
I'm confused, you said it is a translation issue with bambu but it says right in your own video at 0:30 that this is for SUPPORT INTERFACE not for actual supports. This was my understanding as well.
@@GearSounds yep, and in the video I use it as support interface, which it performs quite poorly. PETG does better
Remove it with the help of a heat gun. Then its as good as PETG. However, the PETG may cause colour irregularities along the layers where the support PETG is printed. You would not find this problem with the support material
What do you mean by 'color irregularities'? You can just use transparent PETG and they don't bond at all so nothing is really leeching.
@@Roobotics Hey. I was printing a white piece with grey petg support. Although I had a big flush/prime tower and high flush volume after colour change, Ive noticed that the colour pigments in the petg seem to cause a colour change on the pla.
@@coalachaos6486 that's actually very interesting, I'm starting to think I've seen this now. Just hours ago I had a swap from PETG to PLA, print by part instead of print by layer, the PLA part that came off, later had some of its first layer debond, specifically the outlines that printed first.. I think they do mix while hot, and any residual in either might be bad news!
Is bambulab support material dissolvable? I thought it had a mix of pva in it? Could be wrong haven't used it.
@@DanielChaves1984 it is not, it doesn’t contain PVA, it’s actually a mix of TPU and PLA.
@@TapticDigital ah okay.
Be aware there are 2 products for PLA supports from Bambu Lab! One is pretty old (came with the printer) and does not work very good. Seems like you have that. And the new one just works. Link to their website is broken right now else I would put the link in here.
@@DanielSchweinert I still need to try their new version and see if it actually works, until then I’ve been pretty happy with PETG as a support interface
@@TapticDigital I suspect it is PETG :-) since it's advertised for PLA & PETG as support material. LOL
Arent you supposed to disolve the support for pla in water?
@@Jirisvejda6 nope, I had at first thought it was just PVA which would dissolve, but after sitting in a cup of water overnight it did nothing
I will try this support material for supporting model printed of PETG. Will come back with the results.
.
I think the PETG ate him
@@TapticDigitalI feel called out. I haven't got around trying it yet :)
Is the Bambu support for pla supposed to be dissolved in water or is that something else
Nope! I actually tested it in water as well as alcohol, just to rule it out. It does make it separate from PLA easier, but where it does stick it stays quite firm
@@TapticDigital good to know. I saw this filament in my box and I always thought it might be useless. Now I know! Good video
@@TapticDigital Rookie mistake, you have to drink the alcohol to suppress the feelings from the bad support material.
How long did you soak it in water?
I tried 24hrs in water, and 24hr in a dryer
The PVA support material has to be submerged in water. It dissolves in water giving you a clean breakof
@@Waneklap that would work, if it were actually PVA. Compared it to PVA from Makerbot, bambu support wasn’t affected after 12hrs in water while the Makerbot PVA was completely gone.
@@TapticDigital I used Bambu Lab PVA support material last week for the first time. Used it as a support interface material only, the rest of the model and support structure was printed in BL PLA Metallic. I used the PVA fresh out of the bag, no drying, which resulted in some severe spider webbing at the top of my model, a Pythagorean tree. After printing I just dunked the model, while still on the PEI sheet, in a bowl of water for a workday. The spider webbing had completely dissolved and the other support came of real easy. Any remaining PVA stuck to the model I could easily rub off with my thumb. It was a good experience.
Hi, great video. can you please redo the test but this time, supposedly the best way to remove them is to dunk the whole thing in warm water for 24 hours (lol I know)
@@trickpixel I’m way too impatient to wait for that! I did try a good 12 hour soak of some of the support material but it made almost no effect. Might redo this video with even more testing based on the comments I’ve gotten
@@TapticDigital Does that mean your'e drinking the alcohol this time?
I was sceptical after your video, but after trying it i need to give it to you, this crap is absolute junk and should not be used. I rather have a little worse surface finish than trying to remove this white junk.