NTSB Docket Wings Over Dallas B-17 Mid-Air Collision Nov 2022
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2024
- Go inside the cockpit with special guest Scott Perdue as we breakdown the NTSB data.
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There hasn't been an incident that pissed me off more than this in a long time. Totally avoidable and an absolute tragedy.
Indeed. The circumstances that combined to lead up to this were absolutely atrocious. This incident shows just how dangerous it is when people who absolutely know better keep their mouths shut when they all should stand up and say NO, we’re putting a stop to this insanely dangerous situation.
Fully agree, a complete mess if you break it all down, sloppy practice, just crazy.
In military terms this was a cluster $uck.
bad enough he took himself out..
but take out that B-17..
Shameful
As a low time GA pilot, the Trevor Jacob incident was infuriating! But this one is far more tragic, with the unnecessary loss of life as well as those beautiful aircraft.
Big ups to Juan for being able to effectively co-host a video. It speaks volumes that someone with Juan's level of knowledge and experience can shut up and let someone else talk. I know it sounds like a basic thing but it's surprising how rare that skill actually is. It takes respect, and imho it deserves respect
❤❤❤😊
Absolutely
Juan has integrity and humbleness.
and how.
They clearly have mutual respect. But yeah, I know how annoying it is to have someone else constantly interrupting.
Thank you Juan for covering this in detail. Len Root was my cousin. We are anxious to see what NTSB conclusions are, and the resulting changes to make Air Boss selection and requirements more stringent! Letn and I used to run around together as teens in a hot rod! We miss him dearly!
I am sorry for your loss. Can't imagine.
My heartfelt regards. Hoping for some respectable closure.
Painfully sad
Yes. Len was my Check Airman on the A320. GREAT Guy!
May God comfort you. My sincerest condolences.
No way I'm watching a 50 minute video. Ended up not only watching completely, but also backing a few times to make sure I fully understood. The quality of the content of this video is outstanding. Juan is not only an expert in his field, he is also a great educator and presenter. Very concise and clear information.
Did just the same, and Juan is great as is Scott when it comes to explaining things!
@@ErikssonTord_2 Between Juan, Scott, and Mentour Pilot, you have three of the best in the business at helping laymen AND pilots know how and why accidents happen.
@@ronjones-6977 Absolutely correct. I am no longer in the Aeronautics business, just simply retired! But my compatriot Mento r Pilot is a guy I follow as closely as I can, hope to meet Petter someday soon!
We are also interested in what happened on the CasuTT accident last fall. Mechanical failure, pilot error or pilot incapacitation?
Mentour is a shill. Not in the same league, but you knew that already. Snake.
In music, if the conductor falls off the podium, you follow the beat. These guys were following a 'conductor' that didn't even know the song. So tragic.
@@waldoinaz He was as qualified to be an air boss as I am to fly a plane.
Watch the previous videos. Being qualified doesn't mean that he can free style half the display at the most critical time @@ronjones-6977
Why are these clowns flying their antiques over populated areas? At least no one innocent got killed.
@@sethtenrec Methinks you're blaming the wrong people.
@@sethtenrec That's what the 500 and 1k foot marker is for...
The absolute disgust in Juan's voice at 31:06.... pretty much summarizes our collective feelings about the whole ordeal.
LOL, literally what a shit show!
I was a army air traffic controller in Vietnam working high density VFR traffic for a year,and i am no more qualified to be an air boss than my mother would be , this tagic accident was insane beyond belief!!!
Yes you are! Would you put a Gulfstream at the same TPA as a C172? No, bigger and faster, separate them! It blew my mind pilots on Instagram couldn't rationalize separating large aircraft and small aircraft this way.
I'm a current air traffic controller with 20 years VFR Tower experience and this incident infuriates me....
This guy became an airboss because his daddy was one. It's like me becomming a truck mechanic because my dad was one. Results would be equally devastating, hence I'm a taxidriver, not a mechanic. RIP to the victims of this idiot.
I frequently flew with Craig Hutain at my airline. I always looked forward to safe and easy trip, whenever I saw his name on my trip.
He was a very detail-oriented, thorough Captain. He was assertive and clearly in charge, but had respect for his FO and did not feel the need to override me, just because he was "the captain".
While operating flights with him, he would frequently ask my opinion. If he felt that what I had said fit the situation better, he would change his plan. He was very easy to get along with and was one of those captains, whom IMHO, had a true passion for flying and never took safety lightly. Overall, he was a good guy. I retired in 2020, and I hadn't seen him since that time. Very sad.
RIP Craig.
This incident is a glaring example of the consequences when people keep their mouths shut, when they should in fact be LOUDLY protesting the callous disregard for safety that led to this tragedy. So many people could have stepped up to say NO, we can’t run this show this way, but apparently nobody did. They all willingly participated, knowing the danger, for reasons that seem obvious and foolish to me. The airboss certainly bears significant blame, but many of these very experienced pilots share some of the blame themselves for not stepping back and saying NO, we need to do this the right way or not at all.
It’s not really any different than when I am in possession of a customer’s car with bad brakes.. do I take my chances test driving it anyway, counting on my experience and expertise to keep me from crashing it if something further goes wrong? Or do I put my foot down and say NO, this MUST be fixed first?
d,😮😮zqd😮 og
Same thing happening across so many industries.
Health care is probably the worse example at present where they don't wear masks or ventilate and no one objects despite the 10% death rate for hospital acquired infection.
Listening to Juan read out the Air Boss' complicated instructions....the pilots should have all flown off-field & held at 5000ft & said they're not coming back until he made himself far clearer in his instructions.
Absolutely agree. Your job isnt worth it if you feel you will be retaliated for by speaking out. Too much too many incompetent people (with degrees or nepotism) being posted into levels of management they have no business being in.
7 aircraft in a display, plus a landing aircraft all being directed by one man on the ground in unrehearsed, off the cuff choreography. What a shambles.
Using nonstandard phraseology. Resulting in confusion on the part of all of the pilots.
Yeah, I mean like what could go wrong?
If you consider what could have happened if the aircraft had been tighter, you could have had more aircraft involved in the crash.
Complacency, deviation of normalcy. He handled MORE planes the year before. Look up Wings Over Dallas 2021 video.
The air boss should never had landed that Stearman in the middle of the flying display. When I first heard the recording, I honestly thought he had violated one of his LOA rules and cleared a private airplane to land during the airshow (he/she cannot provide ATC instructions to non-airshow related aircraft). After it became clear that aircraft was a Stearman that was, in a way, a part of that airshow's static/performing/ride participants, my attitude was that he should have had that Stearman land before any of the seven (isn't it eight?) aircraft took to the skies.
It sounds like the air boss should be facing a trial.
Something went horribly wrong during Preflight Meeting , was there any concerns made about patterns . ? Seasoned Pilots & such a shame.
In the video, both guys kept emphasizing that almost none of this choreography was pre-flighted. The air boss was calling the maneuvers in real time, while the planes were in the air
No way he should be made the scapegoat. Everyone from the head of the CAF on down puts on these displays. All the participant pilots were in the briefing. None of them raised any objections to a risky plan.
All highly experienced pilots and career experts in CRM. They all should have known better
I agree! 6 lives lost and could have been much worse. He had NO BUSINESS being the Air Boss.
It's still the Air Boss' fault, but I guess the pilots could have spoken up.@@davidrivero7943
I feel a few parallels between this and the "Rust" shooting. Someone taught by their dad a highly respected man in his field. Was in over their head and didn't know what they didn't know. And used what they knew incorrectly
Copying what they grew up watching, without understanding all the experience and meaning behind it
People like that also risk getting in over their heads and being afraid to admit it and ask for help because it would look bad.
@@LatitudeSky yep, and they feel like they *should* already know it.
Down to the Dunning-Krugar Effect.
Don't forget those around them accepting this person into a role of high responsibility just because of their parent.
That day will be etched into my memory for the rest of my life. I was a half mile away from where the collision occurred and i still have nightmares of them colliding, I startle awake to the sound of the B-17 hitting the ground and i wake up in a cold sweat.
I don't know if you're a vet, or have some other opportunity to find counsel, but that sure sounds like PTSD to me. Is there somebody you could talk to?
I hope you are able to find peace friend. Hope you sleep easier, take care.
@@OtherSarah2 not a vet but a recovering addict and I've had a lot of trauma throughout my life, that's a good suggestion and I think I'll look into getting help, thank you.
@@jordancoleman2402 Thanks for letting me know, man. It's always worthwhile to try.
If you watch the Bob Hoover tribute movie “ Flying the Feathered Edge”, airshow pilot Sean Tucker relates how Bob took him under his wing and cautioned him that he was pushing it too close, and the crowd would never notice if he flew his routine 100’ higher. The Dallas CAF air boss could have used similar advice. The crowd would never know the difference had the bombers and fighters simply flew past them. Unfortunately the air boss gave them a show they will never forget.
Simple vertical separation would have been sufficient. You can even use perspective to make the planes look closer together when they're vertically separated, but at different distances from the crowd.
That’s what I was thinking the whole time, the crowd would never know the difference.
I have to wonder if it was a show that he will never forget. Or if he has already dismissed it as being someone else's fault and he was not involved.
@@lwilton 100% he went to sleep that nice with absolutely nothing on his conscious.
I think the final report is going to tell us exactly what we all know already. That the air boss directed the birds into a pattern that caused a collision.
This 👆. I listened to the radio calls not only was he directing the show he was also directing landing sequences also. To top it off he was new his dad the original airboss retired.
And the pilots still participated so the whole situation is to be blamed.
..and nobody said anything.
And the FAA was present at the briefing where pilots were threatened to not raise concerns
@@ShaunHensley, really? You have a link to the info on this, please?
Juan and Scott, my 2 absolute favorites!!
Add Hoover in the equation too.
And Dan Gryder. "Gregs Planes and Automobiles", as wells as "Rex Hangar" are also great channels
Is he the Pilot De-brief guy? If so...he has a fantastic channel, too!@@Cope1024
I tune into Dan's channel every Sunday night...it's very entertaining.@@Dilley_G45
My first thought was, "Oh, Juan has his dad with him. Boy, he sure looks young."
Hard to believe its been that long. It's still unbelievable to watch what happened. Thanks JB for your true journalism
I am surprised that the pilots were willing to do this show without a proper briefing! Tragic loss. You guys did a fantastic breakdown. Thank you for the effort
If you don't play by the CAF's rules, you don't get to fly their toys. CAF is more of a private club than a professional aviation organization.
I am still shaken by seeing this in person
Quit the bullshit virtue signalling.
@@JohnJohn-ec6kxI don’t think you know what that means
I would be, too! Such a senseless tragedy.
@@JohnJohn-ec6kxwhat the frak is wrong with you!
@@JustaPilot1just report them and ignore them. People like that just want negative attention. Don't bother giving it to them. (This is about a secondary comment in case it does get removed. Not the original comment about seeing the tragedy in person.)
I was at the Houston Airshow two weeks prior to the incident at Dallas and was listening to the Airboss (same one as at Dallas). At Houston the airboss was orchestrating the airshow rather than flying what was briefed, at one point he instructed a maneuver and the pilot refused saying that the maneuver was not part of the brief. I was also at Dallas and this was one of the worst things I have ever witnessed and was totally avoidable.
I used to be a CAF member, I used to donate a lot of money to pay for things such a re-engining "Fi-Fi", etc; and I used to pay lots of money to ride on the CAF warbirds.
Because of this incident and how egregious it was in terms of CAF culture, management and leadership, I wrote them a formal letter saying that until they took steps to change the culture that allowed this to happen, I was withholding all support except my membership. They never acknowledged my letter, and just keep sending letters asking for money as if nothing had happened. So I wrote a letter explaining why I was not renewing my membership, and they ignored that. I no longer have any faith in CAF organization, management, or anything really. Breaks my heart, but I will not continue to support a broken institution of their sort.😢
That’s deeply unfortunate, but also an indicator of what their focus is on. I have a good friend who pilots with the CAF, and but for a scheduling conflict, it would have been him in the pilots seat on the B-17. I think he also had a crisis of conscience in the wake of this terrible, and completely avoidable tragedy. He decided to take a break until things are sorted out, and spending copious amounts of time with his family. I think that was an excellent decision on his part. I’m gutted for the families of those lost, and in apoplectic rage at the “AirBoss” who wasn’t. I hope he gets a lot of time to consider the error of his ways deep within the confines of the Greybar Hotel. 🤨🫤
I did the same, stopped donating. I rode on that B17 a year earlier and this news really affected me, but CAF management never showed accountability to those pilots or the members. Even while waiting for an investigation, they could have set a tone of "we are going to make sure this never happens again."
That air boss should have been nowhere near any air show with the general attitude he had. The transcript sounds like he is playing with toys or making a painting, not moving planes with lives in them.
Have you made the letter public?
We had new requirements put into place for flying airshows in CAF airplanes that were implemented shortly after the accident. A lot that would directly not allow something similar to happen again.
Excellent insight into CAF.
People should go back and watch Juan's "Cal Fire Aviation Sandbox Training Exercise 2022" to gain an appreciation of great planning and choreography.
I worked as airport ops supervisor at another CAF airshow where they have some planes based. And if it’s the same airboss then it doesn’t surprise me one bit.
His name is Russell("Russ") Royce, and he's being sued for negligence.
But my dad was the air boss for years and I watched him do it.
@@ronjones-6977yep, just like the "armorer" for that Baldwin movie Rust; must be osmosis or something.
Juan and Scott are two of the all-time greats, IMHO.
Thank you Juan for the excellent review. I hope that "airboss" (and I use that term very loosely) NEVER gets to lead any type of show again. I also hope that ALL pilots performing demand a rock solid and well laid out plan of the show given at the briefing, and if it doesn't feel right-SPEAK UP! We lost two irreplaceable aircraft and lost several excellent pilots and crew in an accident that NEVER should have happened!
Over the years we've had a lot of TV programmes made within the UK Red Arrows. A key feature of their displays was everything preplanned, prepracticed. They also used perspective & angles to make things look closer than they really were. Now even they've had tragic accidents, but the goal was to make displays safe and exciting from the ground, focused but almost boring in the air.
In that respect an airshow should work like a circus performance or stunt scene in a movie.
That's the difference between a professional organization and a patriarchy.
Hey, Scott, it's just gone 2310 in London. and when you suddenly showed up, I cracked a smile.
Thanks to you two, I'll be up late. Thank you both.
A great exposition, Juan. I am shaking my head in disbelief at the incompetence of the Air Boss. Six irreplaceable lives lost and two irreplaceable warbirds destroyed. What a complete disaster.
And I’m in disbelief that pilots of such caliber would listen to an inexperienced air boss or even be in an air circus at all without a full risk assessment prior to participation.
Just how much common sense does the US military train out of people’s brains? Or is it just AF that does that? Or did the corporate airlines do it?
Pilots aren’t vegetables. Yet.
The more I hear of the Air Boss's "instructions" the sadder and madder I get. "Y'all get that?" "Get in what?" Echelon where? "How close, or high? or....or? Juan and Scott, thank you for the video. 😵
I don't fly but go to classic car shows and parades, and there is a solidly laid out sequence, which car goes where, and which road. That is on solid ground with closed roads. Not having a planned routine solidly nailed down before the show is astounding. "Normalization of deviance" - so true.
What this air boss did is called a figure 8 race when done on the ground. Designed as an exhibition race for demolition derby cars. Of course, those guys signed up for it. These pilots thought they were taking a parade lap, not a crash exhibition.
Yes it's astonishing. I'd have thought they'd map out the whole routine carefully first possibly using one of maybe 4 standard patterns. To just take and go for it with 2 aircraft types in tight groups at low altitude seems stupid beyond comprehension
Sad but true
Normalization of deviance seems to becoming normal nowadays. Save costs, make it cooler. Just like OceanGate and Boeing.
Would make a good band name though
@@mcamp9445"and now for the 1st time in (your city here) it's
"Normalization of Deviance"! And the 80,000 seat arena erupts!!
Welcome to corporate Amerika, where making money comes before all else, and one of our illustrious political parties is dong everything it can to roll back any oversights and safety regs by the evil government.
This reminds me of the armorer on the “Rust” movie - daughter of an experienced armorer, grew up in the business and learned innately - but didn’t have the overall deep knowledge and extensive experience of her father. Seems really similar with the air boss son, who knows (sorta) how to call air shows by growing up next to his father, but had very little real flight experience and no military or formation experience
Can we not place blame on the armorer here please, her biggest fault is that she does not have a massive PR team behind her. Baldwin is very anti-gun, he deliberately didn't attend any of the mandatory safety briefings or lessons. Picked up a random gun off the table, aimed it at someone and pulled the trigger without doing any weapons checks whatsoever. But worse than that, he didn't even realise he had pulled the trigger at all as his gun knowledge was that poor. That's the kind of accident which could happen to an armourer with 70 years of experience, and is what happens when one person has too much power on a set, in this case, the producer who should have been screaming at people about OSHA and insurance was the one breaking the rules.
@@SewingandSnakesShe’s going to jail, which is what she deserves. Hopefully Baldwin will get his too.
@@SewingandSnakes I understand your POV, but to me, the deciding factor is that she, the person responsible for firearm safety on the set, did not know or realize that 1) live ammo was on set and 2) was somehow mistakenly loaded into the gun and 3) was not rechecked before the gun was given to the actor
@sewingandsnakes -
Bull*sh*t. Baldwin was a producer.
Thank you Juan and Scott for such clear, concise and respectful coverage of this tragedy, two gentlemen of the air.
The anniversary of a crash at Pope afb was just a few days ago. The tower had an F16 coming in too hot and rammed into the back of a C130. This plane crashed into a formation of 82nd airborne troops and killed two dozen of them. Same idea, two different aircraft with different flight profiles and approach speeds and they could not see one another. Charles
A BODY SHOP??? The loss of personnel / aircraft breaks my heart every time I re-visit this story. :(
So glad to see Juan co-host this video with Scott. These two gentlemen (respects to Dan Gryder) are among the very best YT aircraft accident evaluators there are. Great job gentlemen!
Love him or hate him, Dan Gryder's expose into the Airboss' [lack of] background and nepotism was pretty damning. It will be interesting to see any follow-up of new legal action with a finalized investigation published.
I’ll never trust Dan after he blamed the vaccine for a crash where the bodies weren’t even cold yet. Irresponsible at best, downright scummy at worst.
There are some lawsuits filed...including against the air boss.
I'll never trust him after he blamed "the jab" for a crash before any actual information came out. I don't care how good some his work is, if he can't handle at least waiting for the facts to come out before making bizarre allegations then how can I trust anything he says?
Not a Dan fan.
The Airboss met all the same requirements as every other airboss in the US. You don’t just get the title handed to you for your dad being an Airboss. Dan Gryder made that up and caused useless damage to an already tragic event.
Excellent job gentlemen. This is one that never should have happened. The airboss clearly bears the brunt of the responsibility here. However, I do wonder why given the level of experience of the guys in the fighters and bombers that one of them didn't say NO this is just too dangerous to proceed and refuse to continue. It's great that the CAF has revised their airshow procedures but a damn shame that 6 people had to die to make that happen.
Yes, I totally agree - but in the heat of the moment, and given that most of the pilots were following in trail of the 2 lead pilots, and the air boss said basically “all good” without accounting for the spacing of the last fighter vs the first bomber, I can see the pilots trusting that all was ok. And there wasn’t time to “trust but verify”
Complacency. It kills a lot of pilots.
That's due to the poor "safety culture" of the CAF as it's called.
Pilots were expected to follow along, or they'd be cut and replaced. Flying with the CAF was seen as a privilege that would be revoked if you rocked the boat, so no one was willing to rock the boat
I had a dream I was a airline passenger, almost falling asleep with my earbuds in. Then suddenly, the opening theme song to Blancolirio comes on. I went ahead and pulled the door and jumped out.
Great comment! Maybe time for open mike night at the comedy club!
Haha! Hope you were wearing a chute in your dream!
It was a lucid dream and he glided all the way down to the ground for a safe landing.
…but Juan was out on the wing looking in at you.
I'm no pilot, nor have the desire. That said, I absolutely love the community of aviators and the concern shared for the safety of the whole industry. It is a selfless and giving community. You guys are doing the Lord's work. If I see Juan in the cockpit, I aint worried about a damn thing.
We enjoyed a great visit at KSRC from the Texas Raiders B-17 on July 7, 2021, as they stopped for refueling and hamburgers. Thank you Juan and Scott for this report. Both of you always have an excellent analysis of aircraft incidents.
Great show/evaluation guys. The pictures make me want to cry. 👨🚒
Need a tissue?
Thanks, Juan. This is Keith B. I have decided to chuck my old channel call sign/handle/screen name and stick with this. This was a horrible tragedy. Got Scott Perdue on there. I think from the jump all eyes were on the air boss.
Wonderful to see you here Mr Perdue. Thank you for your analysis. Greg, New Zealand.
My appreciation for professional pilots keeps growing. Thank you for this in depth explanation. The photos are incredible and sad because lives were lost.
I watch FlyWire all the time too. You guys make a good team, do more.
I certainly heard the "All clear" from the air boss. He certainly gave that impression.
I used to work for the Australia International Airshow at Avalon. I'm totally shocked at how this display was briefed and run. Our multiple Air Bosses for different displays were all former Air Force Pilots with lots of formation experience, and each one was mentored by a Senior and Experienced Air Boss before they were allowed to run a section of the Air Display. There was always altitude separation. At briefings, the display pilots were encouraged to point out issues so the plan could be reworked. Safety was always the number one priority. On top of that, we had spotters around the airfield who would call out deviations to avoid things going wrong that the Air Boss might have missed, or couldn't see from his vantage point. This show seems completely haphazard. I'm totally shocked that none of the pilots called safety issues out during the briefing.
Flew in five different Oshkosh years in the warbird shows, three flights per year so have been through 15 air boss briefings (Wade Boggs) and at every one, the flight patterns were displayed on a huge blackboard for the fighters, bombers, trainers (AT-6, T-28, T-34) L birds, and jets before the briefing even started. Every group was separated by altitude or east/west side of the show line. Always felt like the group leads had the SA to know where everyone was and where they were going to be. Of course that was 12 years ago ….
Ooops, I didn’t mean to leave out the Yaks (Red Stars) in the trainer group. At some shows, we had as many as 36 AT-6s just in our group so you can imagine how many planes were in the air all at once.
As a retired FAA Ops. Inspector and having overseen and was assigned duties to approve the logistics of the "Wings over Houston" and at least one other airshow in Galveston. I had to observe the entire show after earlier having approved showlines and consulted with the airboss well prior to the actual event. It was my assigned function to attend the entire show and communicate any safety issues that crop up with the airboss, it was an unnerving assignment!! I was a retired airline pilot before becoming FAA. BUT...I had no experience in the intricate mechanics of an airshow, no formation flying experience, and no military pilot experience!! I wasn't directed or had official guidance to attend and/or to oversee the pilot's briefing! I had the authority to attend a briefing but it wasn't a requisite. I don't know what today's inspectors have as guidance but it was sadly lacking in my day and I always was so relieved when the last minutes of the last airshow day passed without serious incident.
What an absolute " Charlie Foxtrot " that airboss created ........and did so without any briefings or pre-planning occurring. Let's hope that future airshow AB's learn from this tragic incident.
Is “improvisational choreography” even choreography? And the conductor didn’t even know the score.
Either he's lying to himself about it, to absolve himself of responsibility, or he's in a mental health crisis. The only way out I see for him to atone is to speak (be contrite!) at groups about what not to do, and that a big ego and airplanes just gets people killed. Senseless stupid incident by so many who knew better. The show, the person who hired the airboss, and maybe allowed the Stearman, the CAF (huge part), and the pilots for not speaking up, and did I mention the air boss?
@@LemonLadyRecords Ultimately it is the air boss who is responsible for "keeping the show together and the airplanes apart" and this guy did not do that. When you listen to the calls he made in real time, the whole damn thing sounded like it was created on the fly, the air boss was winging it, and it was way too complicated to coordinate. AND YOU DON'T LET RIDE AIRPLANES COME IN TO LAND DURING THE WHOLE THING.
The screen grab of the B-17 and the P-63 merged together is amazing and heartbreaking. Condolences to the families of all those lost in this terrible mishap. Apparently, it was a “Master Class” in how NOT to boss an air show.
6:29 Formation 101. When you are in a turning rejoin never lose sight. If you do, roll wings level and undershoot.
This is taught to all UPT student pilots in AF Phase 2 and Navy Primary.
Those stills are chilling.
Those pictures are just nuts. Incredible.
i watch both of you often and i appreciate your passion and professionalism. i’m no pilot but im the captain of a io-540 airboat … keep up the good work and thanks for following and sharing your passion
I have flown during the Warbird show at Oshkosh, and one thing that is done different is, no 2 groups are at the same altitude, everyone has a assigned altitude to be at when they are holding or passing over the field. Even similar types are at different altitudes, T-6s, T-28s, T-34s are all at separate altitudes.
When I saw that Scott your guest I knew this would be a great colab video. This video also only felt like it was 20 min, excellently presented by the both of you.
Look forward to my weekly blancolirio video - and I'm not even a pilot!
You should click on the notification bell. Juan does more than one a week. Thank you Juan.
Same. 😂
@@OMGWERDOOMED I do/did, but I don't always have the time to watch everything he puts out right away.
One of the main reasons I watch these analyses by Juan is that it's a great learning tool for failure analyses that can be applied to many many different fields, not just aviation. The other main reason is how he presents the information - which is super easy to digest and very factual. Great job Juan!
Same!
You two guys are the definition of synergy. 2 experts working together perfectly.
More of this!
Excellent video Juan and Scott. Thank you guys for laying it all our for us.
I have seen so many warbird shows in my life time, and I will never again take an "Air Boss" for granted ever again. The good ones coordinate so well, but inexperience kills.
I was there for this (reenactor camp) and it still baffles me why this air boss was in charge, given his lack of qualification.
AB had the same last name as the previous AB.
You 2 guys work so well together. Very comprehensive analysis. Just like the one you 2 did on the 909 B17. Great reporting.
Thank you Juan and Scott for this accident analysis.
I thought the Bombers and Fighters were also supposed the have 500 ft plus of vertical separation.
Should have, this wasn't done at this show.
Yup, most shows do that. The crowd can't even tell the difference from the ground. 0 need to be on the same vertical path whatsoever.
Ego and arrogance make a bad combination
Sort of like America and Christianity
Thank you Juan and Scott.
Thank you both for your clarity and expertise.
Just got off work. Thank you Juan for giving me something incredible to watch while I eat dinner
13:34 It's a trend, not only here but in the entire world- Nobody raises their hand over concerns, and if you do, you only get yelled at.
@OfficialBlancoliriot well…
living pay check to pay check you cant afford to lose a job
@@ncktbs exactly! We are facing big problems.
Thanks JB and SP.
Thank you mr. Juan and mr. Scott, sorry for the loss of your collegues, very sad day for aviation, yalls time and efforts on YT does make a difference and gives all a chance to learn.
Juan…. Superb, as usual….. SO MANY mistakes!!!!
Man, just a sad, sad day…..
No one in control…
😢😢
Thank you for this discussion. Lots of learning there. Strong wish people in this business take this learning very very seriously. You have no idea how much kids love airshows and how even the grown ups keep the child alive in them visiting an airshow.
I love these airplanes, I truly do; they are national treasures. But I cannot and will not support a 'good ol' boys' organisation that accepted nepotism essentially, to put that air boss in charge. This incident still disgusts me, so unprofessional. And you pilots: its your ass on the line....speak up! You and the air boss form a CRM partnership, and egos cannot be tolerated going forward. Thanks for going over the docket, you two.
You always treat difficult circumstances with respect. Thank you.
If these two top notch pilots, sitting in a nice, quiet conference room with no pressure, can't figure out what the AB is telling those pilots to do, how in the world were those pilots going to know? Calling this an accident is almost like calling a shooting caused by playing Russian Roulette an accident!😢😢😢
A very informative and sad video. I believe blame falls on the Air Boss alone . Two very expert pilots and host Juan and Scott with an excellent job . Juan did a good job talking but Scott did a great job telling about what happened with certainty from experience and trying to confuse anyone . Great job between the two.
this was an especially sad one
Thank you gentlemen, much appreciated.
I’ve been going to WW2 weekend at the Reading airport in PA for several years. Every aircraft is grouped together per type. L birds, trainers, etc. They are flown in separate groups. And the altitude increases with the performance of each type. The air boss does a pretty good job with the safety of pilots and planes. No changing the patterns in the middle of the flights. BTW I think Bell produced more than 2 P63s. Anyway great job on breaking down what happened.
Thousands of P63s, but only two of the F model.
The WWII Weekend air boss does a DAMN GOOD JOB not only there but at all other airshows he's provided air boss services at. I've sat in on a few of his briefings at other airshows as well as at WWII Weekend and everything is briefed and choreographed that morning. At WWII Weekend he'll even remind the pilots in each portion of the flying display the altitude hard deck and to watch spacing.
An excellent presentation from two guys that I have total faith in. Well done!
Thank you, gentlemen, for your analysis.
I used to work as a mini air boss and did a couple of shows as an air boss. We only flew what was briefed and my final words in the briefing “if it doesn’t feel right stop doing it” and “don’t do anything stupid “. This guy had no business being a air boss. Last thing……what a stupid pattern they were flying. Why weren’t they flying a right hand dog leg down runway 31 then down runway 35 in front of the crowd then continuing behind the crowd setting up for another pass. That way all the aircraft are always going the same direction in trail or in “pre-briefed” formation. This kid learned from dad who had a reputation for doing things on the fly. Where was the FAA representative when all this was happening??? Absolutely the last thing….why were there 5 people in the B17? Were they essential crew or just along for a ride? Only takes 2 people to fly a B17.
I flew several Airshows with the Confederate side. Mostly in the L'5.that was when they had the Liasion group. We would fly in advance of the big show. Priming the crowd so to speak. But attended all the pre-show Briefing. We had incidents and accidents. But what I noticed in the Change to Commeritive was the money flow. That's when I quit along with several others. To many unqualified money guys getting into positions that they were not qualified in doing. Ego positions rule number 1 the air boss is always right. Rule number 2 if the air boss is ever wrong refer to rule number one. This is going to happen again if the mentality of the CAF does not change. Wake up people. Alot to this story will never be told.
Regarding the number of people on the Raiders B-17; Yes - it only takes two to fly it, but in a busy airshow environment having observers on each side and in the turret is a much safer way to operate….
Agreed, but air shows I worked required observers to be licensed pilots, sign the waiver and attend the briefing. I would be interested in finding out who was onboard and if they met the requirements. As loose as that show was run I’d bet they were just along for the ride.
Enjoyed this collaboration with Scott of FlyWire. His channel is a favorite, too.
I have been waiting for the NTSB report and your review, but wish I did not have to. This just brings tears. Thanks Juan & Scott
Thanks Juan. Also, I’ve been watching the shipping channel you recommended.
Yes, big thanks from me too, Juan! I feel like I’ve had an intensive course in maritime maneuvering and shipping this week. Great to have such a knowledgeable resource available on YT
Sal just had the 3rd anniversary of his channel. He is the boat equivalent of Juan.
Do you also watch Ward Carroll ?
That's another great channel
Hey nice to see Scott here. What a treat
Thank you Juan and Scott for giving us a clear and concise presentation of this sad event. I can only hope that a lot of good change may come from it.
Thank You that was excellent! Those pictures showed me how impossible it is flying at those speeds and have milliseconds to react to situations! I will be thinking about this for a long time.
Madness!! Why no altitude difference?? The air boss is ultimately responsible but why didn't any of the pilots raise this at the briefing?
You guys explained this horrible incident perfectly. Thank you. 🎸
Very well done analysis, gentlemen. The conclusion is inescapable. My heart goes out to the people who have lost loved ones at this event.
Really, really good. Watched the whole thing with a few back-ups to repeat key points. Looking forward to the de- brief on the NTSB final report. Thank you.
Great job guys. Appreciate the detailed explanation of the tragedy.
So what the air boss lacked in ability he made up for with confidence, good one
A great aviation forensic analysis of a terrible tragedy. Thanks Juan and Scott......Al Scott
Great collaboration guys!
A shame to see the scapegoating of the guy working as air boss. He didn't hire himself
The CAF has a head, who organizes these displays, hires the personnel and enlists the participants. He helped cteste the plan and was there in the briefing. In his post crash press conference for some reason repeatedly thanking the police for their "great work" (?), he had nothing else to say because he knew the buck stops with him.
The participating pilots themselves as well bear responsibility, they were all in the briefing and all approved a very risky plan, they all kept their mouths shut, all highly experienced pilots who knew better, experts in CRM, no personal risk to speak up, but they didn't. It wasn't the first time they had participated in such a risky display.
It wasn't a person who created the problem, it was the organization. The people who run the organization have no problem posing for pictures when awards are being handed out, they should be the center of attention now as well. You have to look at root causes to keep things from repeating.
A systems view ...sadly this is not how these things always go down ... similar to Boeing in many ways ... management are there for all the awards but MIA/scapegoating when their decisions come undone ... lack of accountability.
The aircrew have prime responsibility for safe navigation of their aircraft. There's the old saying, if in doubt, bug out.
Sounds like the swiss cheese to me. The holes lined up.
fantastic follow up and much respect to both Juan and Scott for their explanations following the NTSB report
it was possibly one of THE worst air show accidents ever, with loss of life and such epic aircraft, all irreplaceable
i could never understand there not being separation in altitude between the aircraft, fighters and bombers, and you'd think the pilots might have said something during the briefing, following aircraft in formation is one thing, but there seems to be no indication as to why any of the pilots being aware of the visibility issues associated with high and low winged planes at the same height turning into each other (to me the pilots seemed to have forgotten this rule and nothing discussed, ok so i wasn't there) and i guess the air boss just was not familiar with this either and turned a blind eye to it focussing on other stuff
i wonder why and how he was aloud to use these configurations of dog bone flying with cross overs (we would never use this here in the UK following the accident at Shoreham), utter madness, and i kind of feel sorry for the air boss having made this dreadful error, it just seems there was not enough detail brought into sight at the briefing, how he gained his experience after his father, and i bet his father feels dreadful having handed the reigns over - all such a waste
surely a simple rule has to made here any more than three aircraft in the air, get separated in groups at set heights, its almost better to have the planes fly head on, fighters passing under or over the bombers at a fixed height, never mind trying to make a super show for the crowd - omg and there was a plane waiting to go out and another landing - this air boss had too many things going on at the same time, i bet his brain was working so slowly
the microsoft simulation was rather good to see, even if the B17 was visible, in perspective, while the P63 flies faster, and the B17 slower, in flight the B17 would likely look stationery and not be seen - rather like passing a tree branch along side a road, while its ahead it looks stationery, as you pass it, it appears to move and can startle you to pull out
The lack of altitude separation is the most egregious, even someone with no experience would know to do that.
Thanks for your time puting this together, gents! Such an avoidable tragedy :(