Monstrum Panzer vs Vortex Razor: How does a $200 scope compare to a $2500?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- This video was sponsored by Monstrum Tactical. Because of changes in RUclips's "Community Guidelines" rules, I have removed Monetization on this video. If you would like to support this channel, please hit the LIKE and SUBSCRIBE button. I compare a Monstrum Panzer to a Vortex Razor HD Gen3. Both are 1-10x FFP LPVOs loaned to me for this test. Read my full write up moondogindustries.com/monstru...
Monstrum vs SIG LPVO review: • Video
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:30 Package and Specs
03:08 Features
04:59 1x and10x Optics
09:00 Reticle Illumination
10:05 Rifle Range Optical Tests
11:49 Conclusions and Insights
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MUSIC
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CREW
Producer: Giselle Palacios-DelMundo
Camera: Scott "SCOOTY" Mitchell
Producer (EDC): Tony "STICK" Samaniego
Producer (PS/LEO): Darryl "PARABELLUM" Russell
Researcher: Ciri Santos
Researcher: Otto Tang
Key Grip: Clayton Bailey
Production Assistant: Marcella Palacios-DelMundo
Production Assistant: Tomas Palacios-DelMundo
PRODUCTION NOTES
Edited on Apple Final Cut Pro X
Shot on Panasonic G9, G100, and Samsung Galaxy phones
This video is for educational and entertainment purposes only. All demonstrations were filmed in a safe and legally regulated location. Do not try this at home without proper supervision. Portions of this video may have been filmed in a Law Enforcement shooting range supervised by a certified Range Safety Officer.
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Holy smokes, at $2500 I thought the Razor would blow us out the park but it's crazy to see that distortion and chromatic aberration. We did put a lot of effort in developing the Panzer and I'm glad it showed. I didn't have time to look through the Razor before sending it to you but I do admire how sharp the Razor is when looking at the USAF resolution chart and that daylight bright reticle very impressive. I believe our next priority is to create an affordable daylight bright reticle in the Panzer's future iteration. Thanks again for reviewing the Panzer!
Great job! If the reticle on this Panzer was as even equal to the Razor at #6 intensity it would be a category killer. I would also love to see a reticle similar to the one in your G3 or this CM2 reticle in a SFP Banshee.
it is made that way to get better image in higher x, the menstruum is the other way around
Great comments. Good to see a company pushing the limits to provide quality affordable products. I use your rings a lot with my builds. I’ll look at this product and your other scopes in the future.
good move sending him one, cause im fuckin sold homie. 200$ for that nice of an lpvo? shit i wont even feel bad paintin it.
Do it, all of budget scope builders have the same problem - their reticle lighting is practically useless in daylight, all of my Arken scope have the same problem too and I think they are also in the budget scope field.
For me it's easy... Buy the Monstrum Panzer and put the $2300 you save into upgrading/building the rifle it sits on, or ammo, or courses, or lunches for a year, or a vacation. $2300 is a lot of money to spend on "daylight bright" illumination in the reticle and a +/-5% clarity bump.
That's the best answer. Hope you subscribed.
give a poor man 2000 bucks, he can pay his rent
give a rich man 2000 bucks, he dosent care.
As it's been said before, we're in a race towards the bottom - newer, affordable scopes can punch well above their expected weight class due to great performance for the cost. It's a fantastic time to be in as a consumer.
That's a great point. We are very fortunate with how much performance has progressed in gun accessories. Hope you subscribed.
try dropping it a few times and see what happens
This can be said about _MOST_ current technologies. Thanks to capitalism and automation, ''budget'' level gear is on par with top tier gear from just a decade ago.
@@paulbarclay4114 Why would you EVER drop your sights?
@@Splarkszter why would you ever assume you wont accidentally drop it
Usually at the exact moment when you need it to work
That's how things go
Wow, honestly that weird 1 power fisheye effect was the biggest deal breaker for me. That's so odd that they couldn't get that perfect at that price point.
I gotta ask that at the Vortex booth at SHOT next week. Hope you subscribed.
@@Moondog2Awhat did they say?
@@loganwatts5985 They weren't at SHOT. Apparently they skipped SHOT the last 2 years.
WOW, in a blind test I would of definitely picked the Monstrum for the outdoor view sunlight test. But at the range Vortex did look better at the targets. But for the money difference, I would choose the Monstrum . Great review, I really enjoyed it.
If the reticle were brighter, the Panzer would dominate the market.
WOULDVE WOULDVE WOULDVE WOULDVE WOULDVE WOULDVE WOULDVE
@@Shoob__It drives me crazy, too.
I have three Monstrum optics now and am very impressed. I’m on a budget so I simply cannot go with high dollar scopes. I’m so appreciative to Monstrum for making really good quality glass that middle class people can afford. Awesome video. Thanks!
Good choice! Hope you subscribed.
I was skeptical too but have had nothing but good times w their prism and forward mounted magnifier I'll be grabbing this soon. Gotta love a company that's reasonably priced AND worth a damn
Excellent comparison! Thanks for taking the time to do it and put it up for us.
Glad you liked it! Hope you subscribed.
You pointed out that the zoom at 1x was lower in the vortex, but also appears to be more than 10x at the high end. Or either the cheaper scope doesn't make it all the way to 10x. Regardless, there is NOTHING about the razor that justifies the price point. Great video, as I've long viewed Vortex as highly overpriced. This video just proves it.
Hope you subscribed. I remember when Vortex was considered the "budget" scope brand compared to Leupold.
@@Moondog2A Hahaha.... so true. Heck I remember when Leupold was considered "best bang for the buck" budget also. :)
@@Moondog2A vortex has optics available at just about any price point, including the $200 mark - also they're made in Wisconsin, not China like the monstrum.
It depends on which Vortex. I agree that the high end Vortex scopes seem quite a bit overpriced. Especially when you can pretty much get a Nightforce with similar specs for about the same price. But their mid to low-mid stuff is actually very good quality for the money. I have a 5-25x Venom scope, I only paid like $415 for it brand new, and it's REALLY nice for a sub $1k scope. That's not their lowest end line, and not their high end. It's like maybe the mid-range or lower mid-range. But for $415 (it regularly goes on sale for like $499, I found a guy on ebay selling scopes super cheap brand new, I wouldn't be surprised if they "fell off the truck"...) I got a FFP scope, 5-25x, 34mm tube, 56mm objective lens, a great reticle, and really performs great.
@@user-xh3lm1jv7m I thought Vortex was made in China as well? When did they start making them in the USA?
For $2250 in a difference in price I can live happily ever after with the Panzer……….Good job Moondog 👍👍👍👍👍
You're welcome. Thanks for subscribing.
I think it is about time to ask why do we pay this much difference. And spare me the hand ground lens is expensive argument. I would bet there are very few that are done this way with today’s tech.
@@belt1974123 like TV’s , appliances, and everything else, they are all made in the same few factories ……
Canes upon your channel last week looking for monstrum reviews. Really enjoy your ways of reviewing and comparing.
Thanks. Hope you subscribed.
ok 2 videos in and i have subbed. well done sir. looking forward to going through your old videos.
Welcome aboard!
Amazing comparison Sir!!! That's the kind of stuff we all need to understand how to spend our money better!!! I'd love to see something like that with the long range scopes with more than 30x magnification: Night Force, Zeiss, March, Leupold, Vortex....vs some budget optics like Monstrum, Arken, Vector Optics, Hawke. I think many people will love a big and nice comparison done by you with all these optics...
Great suggestion! Though Hawke is rather expensive, no? Prices on their high end magnification scopes are more like Athlon or Riton? Hope you subscribe.
of course I am! @@Moondog2A ! Hawke is kind in the middle to be fair...nothing compared with the high end brands mentioned before tho...
Love how you are running the monstrum mount on the razor lol. Gets people rowdy.
LOL. Glad you noticed. The Razor HD doesn't come with a mount (which the Vortex sells for another $250!). Thanks for subscribing.
another $250 DAMN !!!!
Monstrum sells whatever mount you need and they perform just fine. No need to drop 250 it's honestly a slap in the face how much some of this shit costs when it's probably made right next to the budget stuff
Just bought the Panzer and it's my 3rd Monstrum LVPO. I am very pleased with Monstrum's value per dollar and sold two entry level Vortex scopes that performed poorly in my estimation. All the Monstrums work very well on the 3 AR's they are set up on. The Panzer is on an AR-10. Monstrum has more than earned my business!
I have a lot more respect for Monstrum since testing them, that's for sure.
Ive watched two of your videos so far and I am a huge fan of how you do your video comparisons, clearly unbias, to the point, and best of all the media quality really shows the best side by side comparisons!!! Much love brotha keep making these videos. Im gonna subscribe and see if you have more videos on prism optics as I have stigmatism
I appreciate that! Hope you subscribed.
Best optics review I have seen in a longgggggggg time. Subscribed and can’t wait to see your next video!
Thanks for the sub! I'll be posting coverage from SHOT Show soon.
This is a great video. We are in a golden age of firearms and accessories - including optics. The improvements in Chinese glass have made budget optics significantly better. For recreational civilians, budget options are looking nicer all the time.
Agree 100%. That's an excellent insight. The budget optics of today are as good as the expensive scopes from just a decade ago and they keep getting better. Hope you subscribed.
New subscriber here. I've been binge watching some of your comparison videos and have to say that I am very impressed. Your reviews are very thorough and objective. I appreciate that you just present the facts and let the viewers draw their own conclusions.
Welcome aboard! Thanks for subscribing.
I appreciate your time making such an informative video. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! Hope you subscribe.
I've used their mounts in the past, but it seems like their optics are quickly becoming interesting as well. Amazing to see some ED options in that price range, and it's absolutely hilarious that it has a truer 1x and less fisheye than the Razor. Obvious point of weakness is reticle brightness, but honestly for plinking/hunting you really only need twilight brightness. The biggest lingering concerns would be durability, quality of the internals (adjustment accuracy, repeatability), and whether or not the reticle holdovers are right. If it does end up being a durable, precise optic in addition to punching above its weight in glass quality, then it's a no-brainer for an entry level LPVO. I'd be interested in seeing how much of the
Monstrum has a new supposed, daylight bright LPVO that I'll be testing soon.
I also buy their cheap mounts on Amazon a lot, I like they have it for all heights and tube sizes. If you are not a competition shooter, nothing wrong with those cheap mounts.
Your comment is exactly why I spend as much time as I do with reviews and testimonials online. There is no justification for a price difference that large. Bragging rights are extremely expensive.
Nice fair review. I have to say there are LPVO's out there with better glass than Vortex for the price point.
Which are your favorite LPVOs? I'm partial to the EOTech and Primary Arms.
@MoondogIndustries I'm fond of a couple Riton X7 series on bobro qd mount. I do like the Eotech, I just don't have one yet.
Nightforce
Wow, I dont know whats more impressive.
The 200 dollar optic or how absolutely incredible this presentation was.
By far the best "Gear vs Gear comparison" ive seen on youtube
Wow, thanks! I hope you subscribed.
Awesome review.
Thank you! Cheers!
Optical quality (until it is OK) is not the most important factor in my opinion. Far more important is how it tracks, holds zero (shooting magnum calibers, accidental drops, impacts, etc), protected from weather and geometrically and mechanically perfect. That directly affects you ability to reliably hit the target much more than soft edges or chromatic aberrations. For example, some $200-300 scopes do not hold zero if you zoom in/out. You sight it at the max zoom and then use it at low or mid magnification. Others work differently in cold and hot weather or can not withstand even minor abuse. Not many people ever realize it. And this is what should be tested first.
Extremely valid points. Hope you subscribed.
I just ordered a Panzer about an hour ago because I want something that can reasonably engage targets from short to medium range without investing exorbitant amounts of money. I'm hoping it does well.
You planning on using it for target or hunting? Thanks for subscribing.
@@Moondog2A Probably a little bit of both but I don't really have a lot of room to stretch it out. Hunting or target shooting I probably won't have much more than 200-300 yards too span.
@@Moondog2A As for subscribing - thanks for being a fair and reasonable reviewer. I know this isn't the best optic but I'm looking for "good enough"
How have you been liking it?
@@DankSandwich I'm ashamed to admit I have yet to shoot with it yet but do have it mounted on my rifle. The illumination of the reticle leaves a bit to be desired as it isn't very visible in the light but the magnification itself works well. The eye box gets really tight at the higher magnification levels but up till somewhere between 4 and 6 the sight picture is easily obtained.
What a great comparison, wow. Great job on this!
Thank you! Hope you subscribed.
Great review, I really enjoyed it.
Awesome, thank you! Thanks for subscribing.
Yo Moondog . . . I have been trying to compare various scopes through many dozens of reviews for over a week as I am about to get into the AR-15 platform. This is perhaps the most revealing comparison I have come across, and at this point I can't see myself buying anything other than the Monstrum Panzer 1-10 LPVO. I wish your recording camera could reveal more of precisely what you see with your naked eye, but aside from that, I agree with nearly everything you say in your comments. Based on this, there is no way that the Vortex is worth over twelve times the price of the Monstrum. I would go so far to say it's not even worth double the price, with the possible exception of the no-fault warranty. I currently run the Arken SH4 Gen II 6-24 x 50 on my Ruger Precision 6.5 Creedmor, and I couldn't be happier with the feel of those turrets. But there is no way I'm going to shell out an extra $2300 for that type of feel on my first step into the AR-15 arena for the privilege of getting to gloat about owning a Vortex. If the Monstrum works at the level you present it, I'll be twelve and a half times happier being able to buy more ammo and train properly while getting to know my new rifle.
Thank you for all the reviews you do. I trust your opinion and value your critiques. Keep it up Brother!
Thanks so much. It really makes me feel good to hearcthat. Hope you subscribed. BTW with my naked eye I could make out 1 or 2 elements better than my camera seems to record.
@@Moondog2A
Cheers for the reply Brother! I have, in fact, subscribed to your channel, and will continue to rely on you for what's available in the market. All the best to you and yours!
So, durability and ability to hold zero don’t matter to you at all? 🤨 I’m not saying the Monstrum would do good or bad but there’s more to the cost of an optic that just looking through it. An Aimpoint T2 is worth the price cause it’ll take the beating that other budget optics won’t. This is a good baseline comparison, but there’s factors missing obviously
In my experience with Vortex scopes they have always had sup-par glass quality across all of their scopes when compared to other scopes in that same price range. I think what makes them so popular is their warranty and sheer variety of their cataloged. Vortex makes a scope for pretty much any use case you can think of and at a variety of price ranges.
Great insights. I hope you subscribed and join my community. Some Vortex models are better than others but you're 100% about the warranty.
I’ve gotta disagree with you there. In all of the price ranges they’re near or at the top. Obviously your companies like Leopold and Athlon make killer optics, but Vortex is absolutely competitive with them. There are tradeoffs with going with each brand, there might be something that one scope can do better than the other, and vice verse; you will have a personal preference and choose one over the other. And I’ve just gotta also let it be known that the glass of Vortex’s Scopes, spotting scopes, and binoculars within the Diamondback line are absolute gems for their respective price points.
@@DankSandwich I'm a big vortex stan, but I gotta say they don't match up well on high power scopes vs athlon. The build quality on the athlons is much higher while the glass is slightly better in my experience. The tightness of the magnification adjustment and turrets is a huge disappointment on the midline vortex scopes, a really big hit to "quality of life".
@@RamikinHorde interestingly, in my opinion my Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50 has noticeably better glass than my Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44, my dad has the Diamondback 4-16x44 and that is a bit nicer than the Talos as well. As far as the build quality goes I would beg to differ, both are very rugged and waterproof, It’s negligible at best. And as somebody who works with power tools all day building Caterpillar 797 transmissions all day, I really like when my gear is sturdy. My instinct is to be “aggressive” with tools, when I’m hunting or in a 2a scenario (in Minecraft) and adrenaline is pumping, I’m not going to be gentle. I want audible clicks, which both Athlon and Vortex provide, which again is negligible at best in comparison. They’re both great optics, no point in complaining about the fact that we have some great options in the budget realm. I also would just like to point out how awesome that Monstrum Panzer is for under $200
I have strike eagle 3-18x44 on an "SPR" ar-15 build that a actually really like. it has all the features I would want in a scenario where it would make seance to need a rifle build like that (We know what I mean). It is lightweight super durable and tracks well. But the image quality does drop off hard bast about the 14x mark. Other than that, a great scope. @@DankSandwich
A comparison between Panzer, Banshee and Spectre would be great!
I’m stuck in between them three. I’d like to see all three of the reticles on the screen at the same time.
The format on your comparison/review videos is the best. Back to back straight to the point. Showing strengths and weaknesses on both. Glad I found your channel 💯
Optically they're pretty much identical as far as I can tell. The difference is in the body, turret style, and reticle (first or second focal plane). Thanks for subscribing.
OK. A Panzer is a tank, a Banshee is a mythical spirit that screams and a Spectre is a ghost. You're welcome.
Your breakdown was very well done it seemed like you covered everything
Thanks. I tried my best though I did skep the whole zero shooting testing footage because it was getting a bit long. Hope you subscribed.
I'm going to do it your way. First comment , the reason we buy a scope is glass clarity and turret tracking precision along with the ability to hold zero. I'm betting the tracking on the 200 dollar scope is just fine and I'm also betting the glass will be good enough.
Just as I thought. It's all about practical shooting. Buy 10 of the one over 1 of the other !
Excellent assessment.
Good review. Honest and upfront with the your results. Looks like Monstrum is providing good quality and features at very good prices.
Thanks. Hope you subscribed. My next step is to give the Panzer a durability test.
Got one mainly because of this review and am going to return it. Seemed okay, but the reticle in mine was rotated before even shooting with it. Multiple reviews said they had this issue, but I gave it a chance and ended up having the same problem. QC issues are apparently very common. They also lowered the price to 150 dollars shortly I bought it. It feels really bad finding out that I overpaid by 33% on what's supposed to be a value purchase.
Man that sux. Did u buy it from Amazon or in Monstrum?
@@Moondog2A Amazon. Luckily it's easy to return. About a third of the reviews are 1-2 stars so it seems like QC is an issue.
Excellent video, this was very very well done brother.
Thanks! Hope you subscribed.
Love these fair reviews of the high end vs budget brand stuff with none of the underlying snobiness some people tend to have for some better known brands. This one in particular exemplifies the principle of diminishing returns.
"Diminishing Returns" is right. Hope you subscribed.
Nice detailed review, one thing I miss in your testing is low light conditions, normally the better glass aka Vortex should take the advantage. You could test both next to each other and see how much longer you can still detect something vs the other one. Meaning how much time do you buy more with the high end scope….
Great point! In the shaded cove section with the targets you can see how much better low light performance is by looking at the backstop. You can see the individual fine speckles of old bullet hits on the steel backstop. On the lower priced glass of the Panzer, it's just a blob.
@@Moondog2A Yes, correct, but you tested within a static situation. Look at it as a hunter, when sunset starts to set in, how much longer are you able to identify not just a silhouet, for example a deer and see wether it’s doe or a buck and be able to take an ethical shot. That’s what I mean with buying time in a more expensive optic with better glass. Not sure if you will win a lot with the more expensive Vortex or not.
@@pasjooter1039Great points all. Thanks
Excellent review, thanks for taking the time to do it. I will have to correct you a little bit, the Vortex warranty is far and above the best warranty in the game. It kind of can't be overstated. Any malfunction whatsoever, intentional or not, and they will repair or replace it no questions asked. You fill out a form, they send you a label and you get it back in less than two weeks. I had a faulty dot they just...replaced. Lifetime, transferrable, and unlimited.
Thanks for the info! They pretty much set the standard for industry warranties. Hope you subscribe..
But shouldn't that be expected when they're selling optics for 2k that aren't worth it. The fact is that most of the components of both scopes were most likely made in the same city in China. Same parts sourced, tolerances might be different but we all know our shit is made in China. 2300 to 200 it's flat out bs. It sounds like they really depend on that top of the line warranty. But it's not a flex it should be the norm when spending the same amount on a scope as you would a DD
HOLY MOSES!! I subbed to your channel and LIKED this video!!
Thanks for subbing!
Awesome video people need to see! 🎉
Thanks. Did it turn out like you thought?
@@Moondog2A it's my take exactly, I even took a trip to Great Lake Crossing Mall to compare some of the 2000💰 scopes they have. The 1x is honestly awesome 👌 just unheard of for the price. The fact that these can even be compared to each other means Monstrum is bringing the goods!
And where is PA?....lolz
I expect a 10-15% difference except in light gathering capability. I'd expect a greater difference there, maybe as much as 50%. Justify the difference? Nah. I know f-all about scopes, but I do know photographic lenses. For $2500 it should 'show me a good time' AND make me breakfast.
Coming back after watching I think I was mostly right but under estimated the brightness difference. It seems closer to 100% or, photographically, a 1 stop difference.
Parting thought: If my skill isn't 10x the average I won't be able to use or really appreciate the difference 10x the money makes. I'm no where near that good a shot and don't care for bragging rights as to how much money I spend.
That's a great point. I hope you subscribed and comment on my next video.
@@Moondog2A Seriously, $2500 for a scope is absurd except if its for competition where a 1% difference is a win or loss. That's a lot, even for a camera lens where color, contrast, fidelity, auto focus and mechanical aperture are added in. That's why people are going to miss Nikon scopes. They had all the light/color/resolution down to a science and just needed to concentrate on the mechanical and optimizing design for customer demand. RIP
@@lenzielenski3276 Tract Optics is a new company founded by form Nikon guys.
Well done, great vid. Just subbed
Thanks for the sub! Did any of the testing surprise you as it did me?
Agreed, Me too. 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
Very thorough and detailed! The only thing missing (and understandably so) is a torture test. Ultimately, it has to withstand what it will be put through or it's just wasted money. A warranty is great, but it doesn't help when you're in the middle of using it and it breaks.
That's true. But Vortex has been notorious in the past few years for having a generous warranty but also for users NEEDING to use it often.
Does the monstrum hard zero? Would be interested in seeing a followup video after some actual shooting. My experience is that cheap budget optics often do not hold zero. I have a Sig Tango 4 and it's a set it and forget it optic. I shoot competitions and it's definitely not mounted on a safe queen.
I've only run a few mags but I'm going to do a more robust durability test on the Panzer over the next month. Hope you subscribed because I'll post a follow up Panzer review.
@@Moondog2Acheck out shoot2hunt podcast. One guy talks about scope durability testing je developed and what he found. Might want to use that as a guide. Its like episode 35 or 37 i think.
Both LVPO's appear to be solid performers. The cost difference is the key- meaningful upgrades could be had in your rifle for $2300 that would serve you far better than the difference here. Throw in a case of ammo, a dozen mags, and still have a few 100 bucks left. It's Panzer for the win.
Excellent point. You could buy and outfit another AR, included with its own Panzer, with the price difference between these two.
This is cool! thanks, very glad the algorithm brought me here. One bit of feedback: I would have liked to see the eyeboxes compared. it that an option on future videos?
Noted! But I can't figure out a good way to show the eyebox accurately. I've tried filming through the scope handheld but it just doesn't show any differences clearly.
Good comparison, only other big thing missing here is low light performance. The 30mm tube is going to be a big disadvantage in darker settings. Was interesting to see the chromatic issues with the razor so i will give credit to the panzer on that one. Also nice to see references like the USAF sheet used
Thanks. You can see the difference in low light performance in the difference in detail of the dark background of the backstop at the range. You can see the bullet hits on steel with the Razor. It's a dark blob in the Panzer.
Unless I am a competitive shooter and win lots of money doing it, I will stick to the cheap scopes.
100%
Solid review!
Much appreciated! Hope you subscribed. I'll be posting coverage from SHOT Show soon.
Great review. I probably don't have to tell you this since you are clearly knowledgeable on the subject. However, I would have personally really liked to have seen an optical review of say, 5x, half way through the range. Like camera lenses, optics are at their worst at min and max power and the Vortex was both wider at min and closer at max power, adjusting the vortex to match the monstrum's FOV probably also would paint a more favorable picture for the Vortex. So would have been cool to see somwhere in the middle of the zoom range!
Thanks. I did show the 5x of the Panzer in it's review video so you should check that out to get a good sense of its sweet spot. I plan to do a more in-depth review of the Razor showing it's 5x image quality soon. Hope you subscribe.
Nice work and thank you.
Thank you too! Hope you subscribed.
UPDATE: Since watching your video, 5 days ago (today is 4/10/24, so 4/5/24) I went ahead and ordered TWO of these from Monstrum. They were on sale for $144 each and there was no way I was passing that up. Ordered on Monday (4/8) and already delivered to me here in PHX. I have nothing negative to say about Monstrum or their products. If you require good quality attachments but you're also on a budget, DO NOT pass this stuff up. I'm very happy with my purchase and I can use the other $4500 (ludicrous) that I saved for something else.
Hope you subscribed. Thanks for the kind words. Please keep us updated on any problems. I only have a sample of 1 to base my experience by so it'll be good to get feedback from everybody who has one how they hold up.
I really appreciate the work you put into these product reviews! Liked and subscribed!
Thanks for the sub!
That Panzer is pretty damn impressive for the money to be honest! got me interested in one for sure. Good content and overall a very thorough and well delivered review! Subscribing! One note tho, at about 14 minutes you say the Razor has a longer eye box by half inch but at 2:00 in you post stats that show the Panzer having 1" more eye relief...... so did they fals advertise their eye relief?
I don't know if it's my impression of the eyebox sweet spot or perhaps a typo on the website stats?
Monstrum is definitely a good value for a budget range scope. My big questions are 1. Will it hold zero? 2. Will it hold up(electronics/ illumination) over several hundred or thousands of rounds? I'd like see it put through a good course of fire. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing the monstrum by no means but there is definitely a reason for the price differences. I've learned that the hard way (in my wallet 😂) Definitely take into consideration what you'll be doing with your equipment before you go budget. Buy once cry once as they all say. With all that being said I still loved the video and appreciate the work I know you put into making it.
Thanks! Those are all good and fair points you made. I hope you subscribed and comment again in my next review.
The overall quality of glass today is incredible whether a $2500 scope or $200 scope. I have Nikon lenses from the 1970's that were best of breed in the day. Today, crappy kit lenses are just sharp if not sharper. The comparison didn't surprise me on glass quality, Yeah, the Razor does resolve slightly better than the Panzer, but do you need that resolution? If you are a true long ranger, yes maybe, but if you shoot under 100 yards like me, not so much. The one thing not really covered here is build quality. Which one will last longer in the field under your use conditions? In that case, maybe the Razor is a better deal. After all, you don't want to pack in for 3 days and have your scope crap out on you. Me on the other hand, due to physical limitations, strictly a range shooter. I can buy another rifle for the price difference. It all depends on your needs.
Excellent review, good information, THANK YOU!
Excellent point. Now we photographers value "vintage" lenses for their warm soft focus qualities lol. Hope you subscribe.
I have been buying Monstrum products since they first started offering things. Lights, mounts, optics, everything. They are QUALITY products. Anyone who has $2500 to spend on an optic, more power to them, I guess. But I'm not here to try to impress anyone, nor am I LARPing like so many people do. Today, the Panzer 1x10 is on sale for $145. This is a no-brainer for me.
That's a very fair assessment. I'm sure Monstrum is cutting some durability to get it to such a low price point but for they typical range user, this will be as good or better than any of the premium brands low ends.
75% of the quality for 10% of the price. I know folks like to chase the best goodies but for a guy on a budget we are living in great times.
100%
There are times we're spending a lot more to get a little more is worth it and there are times it's not. every rifle every situation is different.
But if I'm spending over 2500 on a scope it's not going to be a vortex. I'll wait for a sale and get a NightForce Zeiss or swarovski.
There are times we're spending a lot more to get a little more is worth it and there are times it's not. every rifle every situation is different.
But if I'm spending over 2500 on a scope it's not going to be a vortex. I'll wait for a sale and get a NightForce Zeiss or swarovski.
@@doncowboy6625 That's a good point. There's a lot of competition in that premium price range. I don't think most people buy the G3 razor at that price though. It can be found a good bit cheaper.
This video added to my FAVORITES!
Thanks!
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice video. I wish it was easier to appreciate what you get for the money in optics. This video obviously helps between these two. The razor is obviously a better scope but a 10x in price better? IMO no (or at least I wouldn't fork out 10x more). Everyone is different, only thing that is a bit surprising is how bad the lighting is on the panzer compared to the razor, however I'm not a big LPVO person so if it's the norm I guess spending a couple bucks more likely won't get your that daylight bright.
Glad it was helpful! Hope you subscribed. LPVOs have their application. For the weight I prefer Rlrunning a traditional scope with sidecar red dot.
As a fan of this chanel it makes me happy to see how many reviews this video has. Im still hoping to see Monstrum 4x or 5x micro prism comparison, I havent seen one on YT as of yet.
I haven't gotten into prism scopes. Why do you prefer them over red dots?
I’d say price point is the main factor. A 5x prism w/ an offset dot like Swampfox is about the same weight and the combo will cost less. I’m not a shooter but for SHTF situations I can’t see why the average joe would want to engage past 150-200 yards.
@@Moondog2AMostly just because prisms don't make the dot blur like a red dot does for people like me with astigmatism.
I was really liking the Panzer until you turned on the illumination but on the other side the fish eye in the Razor would really irritate me . I would like to see each one in real life but I think the Panzer needs some improvement in the illumination area. Good video you earned my subscription Thanks Keep them coming
For truly daylight bright tactical reticles, there's really only the Razor and the Nightforce ATACR. Both over a grand. All other daylight bright options I've found are fiber dot so the only thing that lights up is a small center dot.
I have a monstrum 3x18. 100$ scope. Honestly pretty good for what I use it for, impressed for the price, I’m not shooting past 200 yards anyways. I did upgrade the scope rings, ones that came with seemed pretty cheap
The Panzer's are nicer than the Banshee's mount.
Well done, I’ll take the panzer all day and use the money saved for ammo.
100% Thanks for subscribing.
@@Moondog2A you’re welcome. Thanks for putting out great content 👌🏻
I prefer spending my money on the firearm and not the scope. I wouldn't maybe put a cheap scope on my Barret 50 BMG but I might out of curiosity just to see what would happen. My cheap scopes may not have the sharpest image at full power but I still hit my targets fine. Rare to have a truly awful scope I have run into a couple of really awful Chinese scopes, but they were dirt cheap. I have surprised my brother with an old fashioned cheap AR 2x scope. The first heavy barrel carbine I built he claimed I didn't even hit the target but when we walked up all 20 shots were dead center in the 1 inch black which is why he couldn't see them. His only comment after getting over the shock was "I didn't know my brother was that good a shot".
100% Carlos Hathcock scored his kills using Unertl scopes that have dimmer image than most budget scopes today. It's the chef not the knife. Hope you subscribed.
How does the 1x compare when you start adjusting the diopter? Most LPVOs start to really magnify their image when you adjust the diopter. This makes the optic nearly useless for both eye shooting at close distance. The Razor II 1-6 I have does not magnify the image so it’s very usable for close in work as you get older.
I adjusted both diopters to get the best image and reticle clarity. My friend's Razor 1-6x does not have this fish-eye issue that this 1-10x either. Hope you subscribed.
I believe that some of these Scopes are very nice pieces of equipment, I have yet to see one that justifies some of the cost that I have seen attributed with them. After all in 1979 I bought a Ruger Model 77 7 mm mag, 9 lb rifle with a 26 inch very thin Barrel. I put a Redfield Widefield on it which wasn't enough scope for the gun but was more than adequate for its intended purpose. My first trip to the range after finding the load data and being given load data buy a benchrest shooter, and I fired 20 rounds into a hole that had a center-to-center spread of .049 inches. Yes that was a 20 round group that could be covered completely with a dime. It was a remarkable shooter. As it was my first Centerfire rifle. I never really understood why everybody was in such awe of the groups I was shooting with it, a firearm is supposed to hit where you point it, after all. I would suggest that the monstrum may be very adequate for its intended purpose, but we shall see.
Amen brother. Nice shooting. Hope you subscribed.
I bought the Monstrum Alpha 1-4x ffp lpvo and put it on my RFB it has exceeded expectations, and it holds zero. I like the idea of no illumination as 1 less thing to fail. I may upgrade to the panzer in the future. BTW it came with the mount and a throw lever for under $100. I can put the other $2400. Into more ammo
That's a great deal.
the important test is whether the cheap one holds up to recoils or not, I had one where the internal lenses just started to come loose from being on an AR-10
Based on the responses I'm seeing sporadic reports of some Panzer's getting loose reticles. An equal number reports of it holding steady on 308s. These are non-statistical reports. That said Vortex has also had QC complains in the last couple of years. Both brands have lifetime warranties so the problem units should be replaced.
Id be interested in your thoughts on the arken ep8 vs the vortex razor hd.
I prefer the EP8s KL box reticle. The optical sharpness on the Razor is superior. But for non Professional Competitive shooter I can't justify the price of a Razor. Hope you subscribed.
i liked the Panzer better for a couple reasons. I have a Monstrum 4x magnifier coming tomorrow funny enough. And I have a low budget lpvo that Iam more then happy with. But great video . And the price difference blew me away.
Nice!
Well, I had no idea there was a cross till you pointed it out, in both optics lol.
It's not something you expect to see on a hill. And not a cross that HUGE. Hope you subscribed.
8 have always thought the diff must be slight, but im impressed with that panzer
It is better than I expected. Hope you subscribe.
Vortex also make some pretty good budget scopes. I'd be interested to see how the Panzer stacks up against those.
For Viper is better than the equivelent Monstrum save for its sloppy illumination turret. ruclips.net/video/pBz1xnMNeC0/видео.html
great video
Glad you enjoyed it! Hope you subscribe.
Video at 14:22 pretty much Captured my reaction (😳😬😵)when you said the Vortex is priced at over $2,000 U.S. Dollars 💵
You can get them on sale for less but they are well over 1,000 in the US.
At any time was the Razor tested with the sunshade installed? At 34mm, it is transmitting far more light than the Monstrum, as evidenced throughout.
I forgot the sun shade. But in a way its a fiarer comparrisonof the glass without? The 4mm larger size of the occular lens and the glass quality gives the Vortex more low light performance
Monstrum is great, thanks for the video. Buy as many Monstrum reticles as possible before they go mainstream stream and we cant afford them anymore.
You're welcome. I hope you subscribe.
Fantastic comparison. I was about to buy a Razor Gen 3 $1750 from A&A but rethinking about buying the Monstrum instead.
What's A&A?
@@Moondog2A A&A Optics sells Vortex refurbs same unconditional unlimited lifetime warranty but for much cheaper prices.
I have 2 Monstrom 6X24x50 scopes and was very suprised at how good the things are.
Hope you subscribed. Go you have the G3 or G2? Is there anything you don't like about them?
g2 they are a bit heavier than some old scopes i have around but it isnt a complaint@@Moondog2A
Bought one of these to replace my 1-8 Strike Eagle after watching this video, the monstrum panzer fell apart within 100 rounds suppressed on a gas piston .223 gun. The rear optic glass unthreaded itself and the optic would not hold zero. Tried it in the included monstrum mount, as well as my ADM mount. Was really let down because the optic was super promising and the glass is very clear, compared to the strike eagle it was barely an inch longer with a larger window. But didnt last more than an hour bench shooting at a flat range.
No way! You should contact Monstrum right away and get a replacement. I just stopped by their booth at SHOT and they were really responsive to user feedback. The Panzer their new flagship and they want to make it right or make it better.
Ill have to get into contact with them, ive used monstrum mounts and stuff in the past with great success
you should check the turrets. the largest issue ive had with cheaper optics is the accuracy of the turret adjustments. some cheap optics do great while others can be over 10 percent off.
Good point. Though both of these scopes were capped turret so weren't deisgned to dail in dope.
I would have loved to see, is a drop test/zero retention. May not apply to most shooters but I want to know that an optic will survive and preform when things go wrong. Cheaper optic tend to drift more easily.
They wouldn't let me drop the Vortex but I'm going to do a zero hold test over the next few weeks with the Panzer. Stay tuned. Hope you subscribed.
I'd like to see a follow-up after a year or two of regular use. After all, in a riflescope the lenses are just a part of what you pay for (although an important part to be sure). If your turrets start to stick and your inversion tube starts to randomly move your POI, that won't be good - it will often happen just when you were really counting on it not happening. I'm also thinking the edgy-looking shapes of the Panzer may snag on branches more than the sleeker-looking Razor.
Stay tuned then for an update on the Panzer. Hope you subscribed.
Would love to see a comparison to the Rapidstrike 1-6
I love both and have both. Honestly for the money and the quality you are not losing much buying a Monstrum however you are saving much. They are both guaranteed for life.
Which rifle do you have the Razor on vs the Panzer?
I'm not shocked Monstrum did so well. I've had a few of their products before they really started blowing up. and most people were always really shocked when using my rifles at how some brand they never heard of was so good. not super amazing. but given how little I spent in comparison they couldn't help but feel like they paid more for the brand name than a better product
Pewpew is as much a fashion show as any other hobby. Hope you subscribed.
Excellent video. I would love to see a Monstrum 5x prism comparison with Vortex Spitfire or acog. Monstum's prism scopes look interesting and I really enjoy your videos.
Thanks! I never understood the benefit of a 4x prism vs a 4x fixed power scope which is so m uch lighter. Is it the durability of a prism over a tube scope?
@@Moondog2A the Vortex and Monstrum 5x micro prisms are in around 11 ounces and can be paired with small red dot light weight package the may offer quicker transitions than red dot magnifier setups
I think the acog is a little heavier with a mount. The lightwieght prisms with red dots either on top of the prism or in an offset configuration generally make for light weight setups
If it’s anything like my Arken LPVO, the glass was really good. My only challenge was working through the parallax at 8 power. I don’t have any doubts that the Monstrom is going to look very close to the Vortex.
What do you think now you've seen the tests?
@@Moondog2A I found it interesting. It is difficult to compare visual things without being there looking through them with your own eyes. Everyone sees things a little differently. I don't know that I would spend the extra money for the Vortex. I have this same dilemma with my Leupold Mark V. It's a great scope, but it's hard to justify the cost compared to my Arken EP5. There's arguably not enough difference.
I was right but not 10x the cost right. The Panzer is a great value.
100%
Commenting at 1:15
I think they are both gonna perform similarly. What will separate them are:
1. Longevity. (how long it lasts)
2. Durability. (how much abuse it can take before it starts failing)
3. Reliability. (working within spec in more scenarios)
Number 3. Reliability will be the deciding factor. how easily the lens gets scuffed or dirty, how they handle adverse whether eg. if it gets water ingress in the rain or if it fogs up in the snow... how well they hold zero while being bumped, nudged or dropped.
Those are fair criteria. Unfortunately no something was at liberty of testing as the optics were lent to me.
@@Moondog2A Thats sadly how it is with these things... What differentiates between cheap and expensive can only be found through destructive testing.
Excellent video. It would be good to see a bit of a torture test, but for the average plinker or hunter, the Monstrum looks like a clear winner. Coming from a guy with a safe full of Vortex.
I've only run a few mags through each to check zero but I'm going to do a more robust durability test on the Panzer over the next month. Hope you subscribed because I'll post a follow up review. Unfortunately I had to ship the Razor back to Monstrum after this video so that they could have it at SHOT next week.
I don't have this one, but I have 2 monstrum lpvo and one of their red dots and I've been happy with all of them.
Do you have the new Banshee or the older G3 LPVO?
I’m glad to see options and that they’ve managed to make usable glass work well at a budget, but what’s the point of an LVPO if the dot is unusable at 1X because it’s washed out? I get people can’t all afford the Razor but I’d rather have a decent 1-6 with a usable dot than a 1-10 without.
Agreed. I prefer a nice visible SFP. Hope you subscribed. I'll be posting coverage from SHOT Show soon.
I suppose, as with most things, the high end option is better, but higher and higher price points have diminishing returns. the Razor is a clear winner if cost is not a factor, but i think for most people it would be more practical to save 2,000 and instead put it towards other accessories or upgrades
Hope you subscribed, it would be great to see more insights like this on the comments section.
The color fringing and Fisheye effect where the 1x is not actually 1x are massive fails that I would not have expected in a scope 10 times the price. Really importan video! I think Vortex needs to urgently tackle those problems!
Agreed. Thanks for watching. Hope you subscribed.
Great comparison, I have a Vortex strike eagle 1-8 it has decent glass, and I just picked up a Panzer, the glass is very nice for the price. Worth it !
Good choice! Hope you've subscribed.
Why do they refuse to extend the t-post all the way out and make them slightly thicker as they grow outward.
I agree with the later. If the outer part of the T were much thicker, like an elongated arrow) it would solve most of issues I have with the reticle at 1x.
Well the Vortex is a higher quality optic the main question I have is which one is more durable in adverse conditions. That’s pretty much a deal breaker. I would rather have a lower quality optic that is more durable to rough treatment than a high dollar optic that won’t hold up to rough field use.(just my opinion). As far as what was shown in this video the question is is the difference between the Vortex and the Monstrum worth the difference in price ?
That's fair contrast you posed there, I haven't had the opportunity or means to truly abuse a 1000 optic. But what do you mean by adverse? Are you talking about rain and sub zero temps. Or are you talking about dropping out a helicopter kind of adverse?
@@Moondog2A
I’m not into some of the extreme stuff I have seen people do in the tests they do. As you know a weapon can take a lot of abuse in field movements under fire. (Not saying you should have someone shoot at you during this) A timed obstacle shooting course where the weapon and attachments are put through the abuse that is common in real life use under duress. In real life a weapon system can take a beating just moving forward from position to position. Thanks for what you do, keep it up