@PeakTorque got good friends that are engineers for both companies. They don't make that claim because they know people will be up in arms about it, similar to how Zipp downplayed the gains they tested from their aero cranks because nobody would believe it.
I always thought lab71 frames where just cherry picked frames from the factory line. The difference is only 50 grams (or ~5% deviation of the total weight). I believe there was some evidence that this was done with the black inc. models.
As a bit of an update. I emailed Elves UK, they confirmed that the RUclipsr that I reamed was given a complimentary bike ie they didn't pay for it. If you ask me, that clouded their judgement and they claimed a frame that was factually out of tolerance (basically garbage) was described in the review as fine. I have no issues with people reviewing something but they should at least be honest, if they get the bike for free. It is technically a form of payment - because they can sell it afterwards. This cycle repeats and to continually get that form of payment they have to say nice things even when the bike is clearly rubbish. On the other end of the spectrum, people like me and Peak Torque get stuff (usually from China) that they send in for us to destroy and provide engineering feedback on. The key difference is both of us have day jobs so we don't need the money and the opinions you get are genuine ones and not influenced by the routine sending of free bikes.
What this channel doe not recognise is that his eleves review might result in someone buying one based on an inaccurate review. Then the buyer gets lumbered with issues and additional costs. He could get done for giving bad advice!! Who knows. Get your ducks lined up and your numbers correct below blowing your trumpet!
This is not totally unusual. Some Pro riders use Hambini BB's but the team marketing blurb would suggest they are using a BB from another brand. It wasn't that long ago where sponsored riders would paint unsponsored equipment in brand colours to pacify the sponsors. eg wheels I doubt there is a significant difference in the grade of carbon T1000 vs T800 vs Txxx is almost irrelevant, the tensile forces are way bigger than you'd experience in most scenarios. It's more likely there is more of it to make the frame slightly heavier and stiffer unilaterally - ie not in the tensile direction.
Nothing new in teams using ‘branded’ products that the sponsors had no association with at all. Remember the 1980s-1990s, eg with TVTs labeled as Pinarellos, or many other frame makers, as examples.
Hey, thanks for the coverage, gents. It’s an interesting topic - how can someone have enough access to be relevant on a regular basis without being a shill? It’s something individuals and media brands alike struggle with. I’d be happy to come on your show and chat about this any time. Keep up the good work!
The biggest consipiracy is whether Cannondale even makes a Lab 71 frame. Or if they just charge certain customers more for the paint job and every frame is Hi-Mod.
Great episode. Speaking as an event promoter, the reason many of us share routes from 3rd party sites like RideWithGPS, etc is because the mapping, routing and point of interest identification is more robust than Strava.
nope, no segments on ridegps or the others, so how to see previous ride data breakdown for an event? only strava has power, heart rate, segment time information etc, all of interest to cyclist, then there's people on segment, look into that you'll see maybe their previous event effort, great for planning, nope again ridewithgps only showing climbs etc in isolation from others. just create a route in strava for the 99% of us that use it. I use ridewithgps for route planning it allows streetview and as a backup when bikepacking beyond that its got to be in strava also routes have offline mode, ridewithgps does as well but need to subscribe.
I would say with Strava’s recent update there would be minimal difference. But as a rider, organisers providing routes on a platform no one uses is pretty irritating. Also converting the files from RideWithGPS to Strava or Garmin often doesn’t work perfectly leading to routing problems. Please just use Strava…
I totally agree. They don't care if a few bikes break during their races. They're going to give the customer something that's going to withstand a bigger beating. And most of the guys racing are rail thin. They're like 170 lb at most. Maybe a few guys might be 190 maybe. But customers come Happy meal supersized ! Lmfaooo00 need more reinforcements 💪😂🤣😆
Fantastic episode today gentlemen. The US Bike Reviewer segment was excellent, and really highlights the conundrum of reviewing bikes. My take is: Leave the deep dive engineering stuff to actual engineers if you aren't certain on your talking points. And leave the overdose of race-related opinions to the racers. The good news is there are PLENTY of people in the middle-ground (like myself) who neither race nor are engineers, but still strive to be competitive in their local group rides and increase fitness year over year. I'd like to think my viewership consist of these recreational competitor types. We don't need micrometers or wind tunnel data. We just wanna know if the bike/wheels will perform well and not put us in a hospital or dentist chair. PS - I make $60 a month from RUclips ad revenue 🤣
Sensible points, especially since the vast majority of riders don't race and are not so sophisticated to genuinely understand. This happens in the instruments sector too. I view bikes from an accountant's perspective, asking about price vs performance, price divided by longevity rate.
Ben is probably the only non-technical reviewer who I've seen actually point out the cons of a bike he is on, where it didn't work well, and what he'd want changed. Also, yes he's older, but in his age group he is a strong competitor and often podiums. He knows his stuff and I really trust his perspective.
There is a long history in pro bicycling of pros riding not only a different frame by their team sponsor but custom frames from another builder, especially during steel era. Quite common in tennis, too. Federer often played older, customized pro staffs painted to look like current model.
@@natheirabu-dahab1446 If EF was running prototype systemsixes, that would be huge news in itself - it's pretty obviously the same frame that they've been running for a few years now., and there's no way that they would make a lab71 version layup for a 3 year old frame.
Probably just backup or training bikes. Interesting that most conspiracies about pro kit are that they have better stuff we can’t get, now it comes out and these are worse, lower spec than you can buy. (Of course hi-mod is fine, was top tier last year…)
EF is a big budget team, imagine what happens in lower tier teams. That's why i love intermarche with the cube bikes, they are great, those wheels, are from a lesser known brand, but they are great and most of all light. They can have two hi mod lighting bikes for the price of 1 SL8, Super Six and so on. German brands have the best price quality at top level out there
I agree with Chris that my initial reaction to have a pro riding a special secret layup branded as a regular commercially available frame would get me angrier, possibly because that's flat out against the UCI "must be commercially available" rule. With a bit of thought though, having pros ride lower tier bikes branded as their 20k+USD counterparts really hurts more because it destroys that whole image of marginal gains and performance you can buy. Having pros ride duraace, top of the line frames etc is really just a marketing narrative that even though we all know we can't be as fast as them, if we pay top dime we can get close. In reality, these guys would still smoke most of us riding a department store road bike. As you say the whole house of cards crumbles
The way they make custom layups is by offering limited edition models for sale. Sagan, Cav, or signature Trek for example. Sometimes it's not just the paint...
I feel Ben give a good objective view on the bikes he gets and rides. I don't feel at all that he is compromised by having any relationships. And he will pretty much tell you his all time favorite bike is the one he owns. Giant Revolt.
Yeah. Plenty of times he slagged some things on the bikes. He's not an engineer and never tries to be. But he thrashes himself on the bike for his reviews and so that puts him into a different group than most reviewers that makes him a bit special. He's the one you watch when you want to know what its like to actually use the thing. No, you won't get a bore gauge in a BB. What you will get is a rundown of all the annoying shit a bike might have that you can't know until you actually ride it.
He also put out a video at the beginning of the year talking about his sponsorships (Castelli, giro?, coffee) and states he won’t review clothing and competitors for these products because he could be considered compromised. Regarding bike radar, listen to the bike radar podcast with Delaney and the bike radar team and it is clear that they don’t understand bikes on the level of Delaney.
Re: your conversation about Ben Delaney - if Hambini is at one end of the spectrum and Dave Arthur is at the other, I’d put Mapdec Cycle Works videos somewhere in between. Solid reviews of bikes, wheels and bike related gear. Highly recommend.
Mapdec is an idiot. He just pushes bikes he sells. This dude called giant tcr flexy and also clowned him self on the tubeless explosion drama from other channel. He lost his credibility few times at least.
Very interesting on the LAB 71 frames. I personally don’t see it as a big deal. Manufacturers outside of the cycling industry, do it all the time. For instance, Lionel Messi wears custom made cleats that are actually the cheaper version but they are disguised as the high end model. I have never heard anyone criticize Adidas for this. Is this something that is brand new to the cycling world? I only ask because I just started getting into all of this and it’s fascinating.
It's interesting what you have said about the race videos at the end because this is actually something I personally have thought has been a trick you guys have been missing. Now hear me out - I agree you can't just go and do NorCal style races etc nor is it something you should frequently do - but you have something unique and that is the two of you. I'd love to watch the odd race footage of you two at Heffron - ones where you're racing together as Nero teammates and discussing how you're supporting each other switching from one camera to the other and other ones where you two are displaying your friendly rivalry and trying to kick the !(@£ out of each other. If you do a race and then treat the youtube video as a sort of post race chat/debrief with loads of your usual banter it would be super entertaining to watch. Anyway... just some food for thought!
If Cannondale put EF on the lower-spec frames but painted them to be the Lab 71 intentionally, and this happened for any reason other than a temporary stock issue, then yes, I agree that this is outright fraud directed towards the consumer. If this was a short-term issue, purely due to availability/stock issues then I can somewhat understand, however, I certainly would agree with that choice.
Regarding the fake Lab71 bikes, another item that you're overlooking is that companies plan their launches months & months in advance. A lot of marketing campaign investments can't be easily changed (ie: committed), so if they had the launch planned but then ran into production issues due to supply chain complexities then they'd need to paint the hi-mod to make the marketing campaign work and then provide the team actual Lab71 bikes once they become available.
That certainly could have been the case. These 2 certainly state things without thinking it through. Why they didn't contact the team ? Seems to be the obvious thing to do.
Not condoning the Lab71 fake painting, but it's a bit strange to get upset over it now. This has been going on for many decades in the pro peloton. Different stickers on wheelsets, shoes, helmets, the list goes on. So many examples of riders and sometimes entire teams not willing to use what sponsors offered them.
Cannondale hasn’t done anything Huffy didn’t do back in the 80s. I lost confidence in Cannondale long ago anyway, due to all the horros stories about them online.
I think in 2015 or so Griepel was riding an aluminum frame Ridley that had been done up to look like it was carbon with bondo on the tube junctions under the paint to hide welds at PR.
Content creators. Even if you feel it’s been done. Just do it. The RUclips public has short term memories. Let the world determine the value. If you get some unexpected numbers, keep the ball rolling.
Interesting. In tennis, it's extremely common for professional players to use different racquets than what it's painted as (a much newer version of the same racquet, or even a different racquet entirely, as a lot of pros use something called H20 pro-stock that isn't available for the public to buy). They do this because they "endorse" the racquets, but they do not say they play with them.
If we could get a “pro” used frame and an off the shelf frame (same make/model) to Luescher teknik or another carbon specialist we could carve those frames up!!! Fun!!
Ben Delaney seems pretty good. He did a video about a year ago comparing the unboxing / assembly process of three DTC brands (Canyon, Vitus and Fezzari), including build times. His Fezzari Veyo review helped me make a buying decision a few weeks ago (as did the massive Fezzari early black Friday sale in the US).
On reviews, Hambini and Peak Torque are two that I would turn to where I feel that I am getting an unbiased technical viewpoint. I would generally use those to rule-in or rule-out a potential purpose. As an example, both Hambini and Peak Torque reviewed 9Velo wheels and both had favorable things to say...that would give me confidence that I am not buying 'junk'. One issue I do have with Hambini is that at times he will throw-in some brands into his "crap" list without any direct reference to backup that statement.
In more severe news, some years ago Israel Premiertech bought a TdF winner into their team and got an imposter, only recently revealed by finding that this imposter has a different bike fit than the real guy on that Pinarello bike. I'd also not be surprised to hear that maybe Total Energies didn't get the real Sagan (even though they won't complain because they also got Specialized bikes - were those genuine though?...)
I feel like the Nero show is the perfect avenue for leg shaving chat. I’m talking routine, etiquette, general stance on it and how far down the cycling rabbit hole you need to be to commit to the full leg shave. For context I started as an MTBer but now do 80% of my riding and and some racing on the road. Haven’t committed to the full leg shave yet but I feel like eventually the cycling gods will decide my fate for me
Some bike shops are doing a great job in the review space right now. Loved the recent reviews of the SL8 and Madone for example from THE BICYCLE CONNECTION. Even directly comparing the two and talking like a real human about comfort, feel, character, etc.
UCI certification is there because they want to keep the costs relatively low for manufactures by preventing a situation where one manufactures dumps tons of money into building custom frames specific to each race and winning everything, and other manufactures won't want to sponsor any teams because it's too expecive.
Cannondale had stock issues througout the whole year. I’m not sure about the Lab 71 road bike frames, but they couldn’t even deliver their TT bike to the sponsored Pro Continental and Continental teams (such as Tour de Tietema). So I wouldn’t be surprised if they couldn’t get the stock needed on the Lab 71 frames…
I mean this was known since the beginning of the season, EF Cannondale's UCI label was different from the LAB71 UCI label. Could be because they did not had 100+ LAB71 frames to supply Male and Female WT teams in early 2023.
I really just don't care about Cannondale having Lab71 on HighMod frames. There is just, what, a 40 gram difference between them? There is no conspiracy given that they are not trying to hide it. They said on the website when sellling the old bikes that they are HighMod. I think the only reason Cannondale even came up with the Lab71 is to have something like SWorks. The HighMod has been comparable to the SWorks but just don't have the same bike snob or street cred. Lab71 gives them something to put on the side of the bike that says, "Look at me!" Oh! And remember in the days of the steel framed bikes, a lot of the top riders would have other builders make their frames and stick the sponsor logos on them. So, the were not even riding the sponsor bikes at all.
Only a few brands out there that never did custom things for the pros, Cervelo being one of the main ones (R3 mud withstanding, but they was understandable and obvious). Specialized did custom Geo for Sagan and Cannondale did stiffer frames for the pros on the Evo
If I payed 20k for a bike that I thought the pros were riding them found out it was the next tier down I'd be PISSED. Thankfully I don't have 20k for a bike 😂
Not all team bikes are created equal….but team bikes take lots of liberties….meaning logos, spec, parts…etc for different reasons….Cannondale wants to promote the highest end bike hence the logo….it wouldve been better to straight up put that they arent real lab bikes in bold or somethimh
The Patrick Lino guy gets kudos from me, as he was very honest about the differences in ride feel between a Giant and the other Chinese frames he was accustomed to. Not many people out there will do that. Chapeau.
Regarding the Lab71 controversy, Pro teams for a good chunk of cycling history (especially GC riders) have not been riding stock bikes. In the late 90's, early 00's, there was an industry known custom bike builder in Spain that produced a lot of the GC bikes for many teams, allowing riders to have custom spec geometry while looking like the manufacture they were representing. Even today, I've heard and seen pretty solid evidence that certain riders are riding custom made bikes. Is it false advertising to imply that a team is riding a Lab71... yes, but it's gone on for a long time.
The son of Cannondale founder said in 1995, when Cannondale sponsored their first TDF team, that making different geometry for a pro riders needs, was a big challenge, if a bike of regular sizes didn't fit him. Which lead me to believe that's when they sent the order to Sarto to have the bike made. So, what if all these pro bike frames were made by Sarto, and they thought they better put the disclaimer to avoid legal action?
@@TjAlberto I don't have him saying those words, this is from an interview with him on RUclips. He said riders from the Saeco team needed bikes that they couldn't make from their molds. This leads me to believe they went to a company like Sarto to have them made. Sarto has frame molds from over 35 bike manufacturers, they will neither confirm or deny they make bikes for these companies.
@@borano2031 You're right, Cannondale didn't have carbon fiber in their frames until 97. My point was other companies were making their race frames for riders who didn't fit their frame molds.
I asked a mechanic to look at my bearings since they hadn’t been checked in a year and he looked at me like I was insane 😭 I need a bearing guy in NYC!
I think you guys were a bit tough on Ben Delaney. He’s been in the media business for years (decades?), was made redundant a couple of years ago, and his RUclips started from that. I suspect his connections in the industry are how he gets the product to review. His reviews seem pretty honest, he called out Canyon recently for not allowing bar/cockpit substitutions and in the review Chris watched questioned BMC only offering a 36cm bar on a $16k bike. Seems legit, just think he might deserve a closer look
Hang on, I said I really liked his stuff and it was adding real value. The broader discussion was about the relevance of a RUclips review and how there as so many challenges producing them.
Every time I’ve watched or read one of Ben’s reviews I’ve come away absolutely understanding what he believes are the biket’s flaws and positives, and generally whether he believes the bike is worth buying. He’s not going for the Hambini audience who just enjoys a good body slam, but I can assure you he’s a real journalist and is objective. And he’s clear that his thoughts are just that, his, and that in some cases yours might be different. In short, he’s trustworthy and extraordinarily knowledgeable. I’ll also point out he often wins his class in some pretty major races. Dude knows what he’s talking about.
Maybe they gave each rider ONE Lab 71 (real one) and to ''save money'', gave the team the hi-mod painted Lab 71 as SPARE BIKES, which they are selling now as the season is over... I wonder if anyone even bothered contacting EF and asking them!!!!
People forget that professional sports, all of them, are a massive advertisement exercise. This has been going on for years. They are paid to advertise what the sponsor wants to sell, not to ride the most expensive gear possible.
Huge rabbit hole...So, this has been the case for forever- 7-11's Huffys were Serottas, Motorola's Calois were Eddy Merckx, Lance's Ti Trek TT bike was a Lightspeed, etc, etc, etc....other options--perhaps the bikes for sale were spares (cheaper bikes because they're riding on roof racks, but want to look the same in case they are used) or are training bikes? I think as long as they ARE racing MOST of the time on the bikes they're advertised as...The other thing to remember....given the history of mislabeled bikes- it really is about advertising. I'd like transparency, but it is what it is.
Imagine paying 8k AUD for a thrashed out ex race bike when you can get a near new supersix with di2 dura ace for 1500AUD or less from a barrister off facebook lol
You guys are so bloody literal - remove the stick from thy arse ;-). EF selling Hi-Mods with a Lab71 paint job doesn't mean they're race bikes...ffs. The bike title up by the price says Hi-Mod!!! They will be training bikes... The paint job is team branding...
Re Fake Cannondale: I’m not sure if it’s similar but many top professional tennis players don’t use the newest “top shelf” rackets that are being pushed by the major brands. They’re usually custom “pro-stock” frames available only to them painted in the current model’s paint scheme. For example: Wilson has the fabled H22 frame that many of the pros that is generations old, but painted to the newest Wilson model. Kinda misleading seeing pros market the newest tech when on match day: they’re using a 10+ year old frame with none of the “innovation.”
The frame thing for ef might have something to do with their component sponsor. I know they were running a slightly different frame because vision didn't have an integrated headset that was compatible with Cannondales integrated headset system, running bikes with this sort of fairing to hide cables, and you couldn't buy those frames anywhere.
Advertising is always fake 😂 I want the EF to be able to keep on riding hi-mod instead of the lab71, If not this would mean the system six would ne be put to such a great use on rouleur stages. To all systemsix owners this was obvious, the system six does not exist as a lab71, it’s hi-mod only, same goes for the super slice, although I don’t know that it was lab71 stickered. Get over it, it’s not more supreme more rapha more palace etc… When someone slaps a sticker on it… Let’s be grateful for Cannondale’s great work on making all theese crazy colorways specific to grand toors, and cola orations, they bring attention to frames and financing to cycling the same way the redbull helmets does… It’s good, it’s fun, it’s echoing the folk of all the club categories tiers, and races sponsoring, may it be a garage a window maker brand, beers, gazettes, gardening equipments or household retailers… it’s popular, it’s real, it’s part of the show.
could definitely care less about the EF bikes being painted as Lab71's lol. The pros will ride what they are able to get, with the craziness of bike manufacturing the last few years, i would guess these frames were just what was available at the quantity a pro team needs, and they were painted as the LAB71 because that is what they would typically have been riding if it were more available, or because the manufacturer wanted them to seem like they were on the top spec bikes. In reality though it really does not matter at all to the average cyclist or spectator of racing. I want to see good racing, i could care less which exact model of bike they are riding.
Once you have a wax treated chain the hard part is over. Buy a $10 thrift store crock pot and some silca secret chain blend hot wax and throw it in. Turn it on, Swish your chain around in that every 300-400km and you are golden. The tedium of drip waxing your chain is probably more time consuming. I actually bought a bottle of drip lube to use between treatments and it’s so much easier just to swish it in hot wax and hang to dry I don’t even bother. The penetration into the rollers is also superior.
In ref to lab 71, I guess the core issue is integrity. I feel if they just be honest and tell ppl what they are running, if you run special pro only versions or whatever tell ppl.
There are some followers that consistently give me kudos within a minute or two of my ride uploading. Almost like they are out there just waiting to give kudos.
Honestly, I see the Lab 71 branding as disrespectful to Cannondale's highest paying customers. If I paid the higher price for the Lab 71 frame, I would now be wondering if I wasted my money. It really just feels like they are trying to trick people into buying the Lab 71 frame, when clearly the benefits aren't important enough for a pro sponsored team to care about. Very scammy IMO.
The difference between the Lab71 and HiMod is 40 grams. That makes the HiMod objectively better, right? Here's the truth, people who buy $15,000 bikes buy $15,000 bikes so their friends know they bought the most expensive one, not because it makes a bit of difference. That's why you can only talk about "if I bought one"; well, you didn't and you won't, so why do you care?. This video is just fake internet outrage over a giant nothingburger.
@@aaronjacobtrent At the end of the day I don't care who is riding what frame, but the transparency of the company does matter. Especially when they are asking for $15,000 for a bicycle.
Having watched Cannondale's stock over the past year looking for pro-deals, it is pretty apparent that they have had some production issues. Maybe UCI condoned this due to that problem?
Jesse, I'm nowhere near as good as you on the bike but I feel confident in saying if you have never used a waxed chain you are seriously missing out in more ways than one! It's way smoother, less friction, easier to maintain than having to degrease a lubed chain, quieter as well. Only a little annoying if you end up doing a ride in dirty and wet conditions as you have to use boiling water to get the filth off blowdry and rewax within a fairly quick timeframe.
Finding authentic review content is pretty tough. I've narrowed the field to dave arthur, Cam N and Ben D for ride reviews and PT and Hambini for qualatative reviews. These guys are pretty solid i reckon
This Lab71 affair just point out the fact that those high end bikes are just useless ! If a pro doesn't need that to win then who needs it ?? Way to much marketting BS nowadays in the bike industry.
LAB 71 topic is standard practice in sport, for example in golf players use new model head covers on old model clubs for the cameras, they also brand custom milled irons with consumer markings for continuity with advertising. Another example would be cricket, bats are custom made and selected yet carry the standard consumer branding.
When the frame comes out of the waffle maker, QC crosses their fingers and puts the ‘burger’ on the scale. If it’s lightest it’s a LAB71. The rest of the heavier frames are ‘Pro Mods’. I’m fairly certain when Alison Jackson won Roubaix 23🎉 she wasn’t on a LAB71 for good reason. If the entire EF cycling team were all on LAB71’s they couldn’t pay the UCI for their little stickers and team payroll deposits. There’s no such thing a fat chicken for little money, just ask yourRabbi.Don’t blame EF EDUCATION or Cannadale. It’s the UCI that is bleeds everyone. Keep up the good work Nero!
Straight up false advertising. They are lying to potential customers that they're buying a professional level bike (and paying prices commensurate) when they're not. In Australia should complain to your trading standards and cycling association(s).
Could be because LAB71 bikes both too light where they’d have to add weight back on to the frame AND aren’t stiff enough. So it’s better to run the Hi-Mod which is win-win
tire guys sound almost like 'wax guys' in skiing and snowboarding. they go out on the course during events and give the riders up to the minute wax based on temp, conditions, snow quality etc. really interesting
Here's a Strava etiquette that was missed... make your commutes and trainer rides private unless you think it's interesting. Or at least hit 'hide from home and club feeds', it's a check box at the bottom of your edit activity screen. It keeps it on your activity if you want it public (why?) list but stops cluttering up your mates' feed with your uninteresting stuff.
Cycling videos on RUclips, including yours, are for enjoyment and knowledge and community chit-chat and what not. And I'm not cranked about any of them, I just bail when I weary of something and that includes the Bike Vault on the GCN Tech Show, just not my cup of tea and that's okay, so much to watch, so little time, and any bike shown and discussed on screen should rate a super nice. And I really enjoy GCN in general, but not everything on every channel and I do bail and skip over some of your content, too, while commending you for this platform and perspective you have added to our viewing options. And I do like most of the content generated by Ben Delaney and his take is gravel-focused bikes and events and race recaps, pretty much. And yes, he is unique in that role as he does review bikes and gear and puts his audience in touch with lots of gravel events and generally serves as a seasoned professional inviting everyone to join him for the ride, wherever that happens to be..
It's nothing new that a pro team isn't riding what the labels say. This has been going on for as long as I can remember. I believe that the 711 team back in the day were sponsored by Huffy and of course they weren't riding Huffy bikes.
I believe the bikes they sell are their home training bikes. Hi-MOD frames painted with LAB 71 to be sponsor correct. Also using Ultegra instead of Dura-Ace. LAB-71 frames with Dura-Ace are still their race bikes.
That is misleading of Cdale there to go so far as to use the uci sticker for the other frame. I'm curious their side of it, unless it's as simple as they are trying to sell more of the expensive frames. And seriously like the 40g frame difference is going to matter anyway, seems weird to go through all of this effort.
Regarding race videos. I really like Jasper Verkuijl's race videos I find them really engaging. And watch some of VC's bur that's about it used to watch some Norcal race videos before, but was more because crit racing was a new thing for me.
LOLOLOL, OHHHH Cannondale, my FIRST real road race bike in 1985 ! Yes, the first oversized, cutting edge aluminum frame was my first race bike when I was a senior in high school. I had come from "just riding a lot" on a Motobecane Nomad touring bike sized for me 3 years prior. This "LAB71" deal is like a new 2024 S-Works ending up being actually FACT 11 tech from 2012.
The supersix issue seems like a supply thing. This way they can keep the same livery. If it was the other way(lab 71 dressed like hi-mod it would be more problematic.
Lab71 probably not stiff enough for the pro team. Pro teams often want stiffer versions with a bit more carbon in. Lab71 builds may be coming out
The Lab 71s are stiffer than the high mods. Similar to the S-Works SL8 over the lower end carbon.
@@veganpotterthevegan are they though, i wouldn't be so sure. Would love to put these ultra light samples on a stiffness table.
@PeakTorque got good friends that are engineers for both companies. They don't make that claim because they know people will be up in arms about it, similar to how Zipp downplayed the gains they tested from their aero cranks because nobody would believe it.
@@PeakTorque I'd rather accidentally drop a torque wrench on the cheaper frames though🙃
I always thought lab71 frames where just cherry picked frames from the factory line. The difference is only 50 grams (or ~5% deviation of the total weight). I believe there was some evidence that this was done with the black inc. models.
As a bit of an update. I emailed Elves UK, they confirmed that the RUclipsr that I reamed was given a complimentary bike ie they didn't pay for it. If you ask me, that clouded their judgement and they claimed a frame that was factually out of tolerance (basically garbage) was described in the review as fine.
I have no issues with people reviewing something but they should at least be honest, if they get the bike for free. It is technically a form of payment - because they can sell it afterwards. This cycle repeats and to continually get that form of payment they have to say nice things even when the bike is clearly rubbish.
On the other end of the spectrum, people like me and Peak Torque get stuff (usually from China) that they send in for us to destroy and provide engineering feedback on. The key difference is both of us have day jobs so we don't need the money and the opinions you get are genuine ones and not influenced by the routine sending of free bikes.
What this channel doe not recognise is that his eleves review might result in someone buying one based on an inaccurate review. Then the buyer gets lumbered with issues and additional costs.
He could get done for giving bad advice!! Who knows.
Get your ducks lined up and your numbers correct below blowing your trumpet!
So they told you that information? About a third party?
I can't take the word of this 5 year old... 🖕🏽Lol
This is not totally unusual. Some Pro riders use Hambini BB's but the team marketing blurb would suggest they are using a BB from another brand. It wasn't that long ago where sponsored riders would paint unsponsored equipment in brand colours to pacify the sponsors. eg wheels
I doubt there is a significant difference in the grade of carbon T1000 vs T800 vs Txxx is almost irrelevant, the tensile forces are way bigger than you'd experience in most scenarios. It's more likely there is more of it to make the frame slightly heavier and stiffer unilaterally - ie not in the tensile direction.
Nothing new in teams using ‘branded’ products that the sponsors had no association with at all. Remember the 1980s-1990s, eg with TVTs labeled as Pinarellos, or many other frame makers, as examples.
Pen is working?
And there I was thinking pros were using their stiffness to ride their hairdressers.
You can easily stop them from buying your BB's and rebranding if you want. Just write it on the packaging.
Wasn't there a case of some pros riding in Bont's hidden under overshoes that made them look like Sidis? 😂
Hey, thanks for the coverage, gents. It’s an interesting topic - how can someone have enough access to be relevant on a regular basis without being a shill? It’s something individuals and media brands alike struggle with. I’d be happy to come on your show and chat about this any time. Keep up the good work!
The biggest consipiracy is whether Cannondale even makes a Lab 71 frame. Or if they just charge certain customers more for the paint job and every frame is Hi-Mod.
Great episode. Speaking as an event promoter, the reason many of us share routes from 3rd party sites like RideWithGPS, etc is because the mapping, routing and point of interest identification is more robust than Strava.
100% this is what I was just coming here to say.
100%. I'm a cyclist and I use Komoot because it's way better at routing than Strava. That an I don't pay for Strava haha
nope, no segments on ridegps or the others, so how to see previous ride data breakdown for an event? only strava has power, heart rate, segment time information etc, all of interest to cyclist, then there's people on segment, look into that you'll see maybe their previous event effort, great for planning, nope again ridewithgps only showing climbs etc in isolation from others. just create a route in strava for the 99% of us that use it. I use ridewithgps for route planning it allows streetview and as a backup when bikepacking beyond that its got to be in strava also routes have offline mode, ridewithgps does as well but need to subscribe.
I would say with Strava’s recent update there would be minimal difference.
But as a rider, organisers providing routes on a platform no one uses is pretty irritating.
Also converting the files from RideWithGPS to Strava or Garmin often doesn’t work perfectly leading to routing problems.
Please just use Strava…
@@liamgaulIt’s not better at routing. Definitely not where I live anyway.
They should advertise LAB71 as "Even better than the Pros ride"
Nobody would ever realize any difference.
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed Exactly! There is only a 40 gram weight difference. I know I cant tell the difference of 40 grams.
@@DaveCM it's the weight of a slice of a single toast with a bit of butter.
I totally agree. They don't care if a few bikes break during their races. They're going to give the customer something that's going to withstand a bigger beating.
And most of the guys racing are rail thin. They're like 170 lb at most. Maybe a few guys might be 190 maybe.
But customers come Happy meal supersized ! Lmfaooo00 need more reinforcements 💪😂🤣😆
Or maybe - the illegal bike the pros wished they could ride
Nero video drops… sleeping postponed
Fantastic episode today gentlemen. The US Bike Reviewer segment was excellent, and really highlights the conundrum of reviewing bikes. My take is: Leave the deep dive engineering stuff to actual engineers if you aren't certain on your talking points. And leave the overdose of race-related opinions to the racers. The good news is there are PLENTY of people in the middle-ground (like myself) who neither race nor are engineers, but still strive to be competitive in their local group rides and increase fitness year over year. I'd like to think my viewership consist of these recreational competitor types. We don't need micrometers or wind tunnel data. We just wanna know if the bike/wheels will perform well and not put us in a hospital or dentist chair. PS - I make $60 a month from RUclips ad revenue 🤣
🍆 Patty ❤
Sensible points, especially since the vast majority of riders don't race and are not so sophisticated to genuinely understand. This happens in the instruments sector too. I view bikes from an accountant's perspective, asking about price vs performance, price divided by longevity rate.
Absolutely, agree to every word! I still haven't bought my vernier, maybe soon 😀
I bought a TIME ADHX because of his review of his TIME Scylon frame. And he was spot on with it being an impeccably manufactured frame
I hope Time frames are still around when I have enough money to spend in such work or art 😅
Time or custom build will be my choice
Ben is probably the only non-technical reviewer who I've seen actually point out the cons of a bike he is on, where it didn't work well, and what he'd want changed. Also, yes he's older, but in his age group he is a strong competitor and often podiums. He knows his stuff and I really trust his perspective.
Very valuable content from Ben
Ben is not just fast for his age group. He regularly podiums in the overall, not just age group.
There is a long history in pro bicycling of pros riding not only a different frame by their team sponsor but custom frames from another builder, especially during steel era. Quite common in tennis, too. Federer often played older, customized pro staffs painted to look like current model.
We’ve known all year that there is no Lab71 systemsix yet they have had the Lab71 decals on all season.
Maybe it was unreleased or something. But yes, fair point
@@natheirabu-dahab1446 If EF was running prototype systemsixes, that would be huge news in itself - it's pretty obviously the same frame that they've been running for a few years now., and there's no way that they would make a lab71 version layup for a 3 year old frame.
Probably just backup or training bikes.
Interesting that most conspiracies about pro kit are that they have better stuff we can’t get, now it comes out and these are worse, lower spec than you can buy. (Of course hi-mod is fine, was top tier last year…)
Incorrect. EF were racing Hi-Mod frames at the Tour
EF is a big budget team, imagine what happens in lower tier teams. That's why i love intermarche with the cube bikes, they are great, those wheels, are from a lesser known brand, but they are great and most of all light. They can have two hi mod lighting bikes for the price of 1 SL8, Super Six and so on. German brands have the best price quality at top level out there
When they slapped the LAB71 logo on the System Six (the aero frame spec) I knew something wasn't right
I agree with Chris that my initial reaction to have a pro riding a special secret layup branded as a regular commercially available frame would get me angrier, possibly because that's flat out against the UCI "must be commercially available" rule. With a bit of thought though, having pros ride lower tier bikes branded as their 20k+USD counterparts really hurts more because it destroys that whole image of marginal gains and performance you can buy. Having pros ride duraace, top of the line frames etc is really just a marketing narrative that even though we all know we can't be as fast as them, if we pay top dime we can get close. In reality, these guys would still smoke most of us riding a department store road bike. As you say the whole house of cards crumbles
The way they make custom layups is by offering limited edition models for sale. Sagan, Cav, or signature Trek for example. Sometimes it's not just the paint...
These make my zone 2 trainer rides something to look forward too cheers guys
I feel Ben give a good objective view on the bikes he gets and rides. I don't feel at all that he is compromised by having any relationships. And he will pretty much tell you his all time favorite bike is the one he owns. Giant Revolt.
Yeah. Plenty of times he slagged some things on the bikes. He's not an engineer and never tries to be. But he thrashes himself on the bike for his reviews and so that puts him into a different group than most reviewers that makes him a bit special. He's the one you watch when you want to know what its like to actually use the thing. No, you won't get a bore gauge in a BB. What you will get is a rundown of all the annoying shit a bike might have that you can't know until you actually ride it.
He also put out a video at the beginning of the year talking about his sponsorships (Castelli, giro?, coffee) and states he won’t review clothing and competitors for these products because he could be considered compromised.
Regarding bike radar, listen to the bike radar podcast with Delaney and the bike radar team and it is clear that they don’t understand bikes on the level of Delaney.
Watch the Diverge STR review. Pretty sure Ben is blackballed from ‘specialized.
Re: your conversation about Ben Delaney - if Hambini is at one end of the spectrum and Dave Arthur is at the other, I’d put Mapdec Cycle Works videos somewhere in between. Solid reviews of bikes, wheels and bike related gear. Highly recommend.
Mapdec is brilliant love the
Videos
Mapdec is an idiot. He just pushes bikes he sells. This dude called giant tcr flexy and also clowned him self on the tubeless explosion drama from other channel. He lost his credibility few times at least.
Very interesting on the LAB 71 frames. I personally don’t see it as a big deal. Manufacturers outside of the cycling industry, do it all the time. For instance, Lionel Messi wears custom made cleats that are actually the cheaper version but they are disguised as the high end model. I have never heard anyone criticize Adidas for this. Is this something that is brand new to the cycling world? I only ask because I just started getting into all of this and it’s fascinating.
Indeed. Not a big deal. Same in pro tennis circuit -- pros using same racquet with new model-year paintjob.
It's interesting what you have said about the race videos at the end because this is actually something I personally have thought has been a trick you guys have been missing. Now hear me out - I agree you can't just go and do NorCal style races etc nor is it something you should frequently do - but you have something unique and that is the two of you. I'd love to watch the odd race footage of you two at Heffron - ones where you're racing together as Nero teammates and discussing how you're supporting each other switching from one camera to the other and other ones where you two are displaying your friendly rivalry and trying to kick the !(@£ out of each other. If you do a race and then treat the youtube video as a sort of post race chat/debrief with loads of your usual banter it would be super entertaining to watch. Anyway... just some food for thought!
They covered the snowy classic gran condo in a similar way and that was great!
If Cannondale put EF on the lower-spec frames but painted them to be the Lab 71 intentionally, and this happened for any reason other than a temporary stock issue, then yes, I agree that this is outright fraud directed towards the consumer. If this was a short-term issue, purely due to availability/stock issues then I can somewhat understand, however, I certainly would agree with that choice.
They can just be training bikes and hi -mod is like S works, lab 71, is a spec higher, supposedly
Regarding the fake Lab71 bikes, another item that you're overlooking is that companies plan their launches months & months in advance. A lot of marketing campaign investments can't be easily changed (ie: committed), so if they had the launch planned but then ran into production issues due to supply chain complexities then they'd need to paint the hi-mod to make the marketing campaign work and then provide the team actual Lab71 bikes once they become available.
That certainly could have been the case. These 2 certainly state things without thinking it through. Why they didn't contact the team ? Seems to be the obvious thing to do.
Maybe the actual story is: EF Pros do not like the way the LAB71 rides.
I rate Ben D. over both Dave Arthur and Cam.
Who is Ben D.?
@@911norman Ben Delaney
Not condoning the Lab71 fake painting, but it's a bit strange to get upset over it now. This has been going on for many decades in the pro peloton. Different stickers on wheelsets, shoes, helmets, the list goes on. So many examples of riders and sometimes entire teams not willing to use what sponsors offered them.
The only difference is a smell of fraud if people are purchasing them with the false logos. I can't put my finger on it but that smacks of an issue.
Cannondale hasn’t done anything Huffy didn’t do back in the 80s. I lost confidence in Cannondale long ago anyway, due to all the horros stories about them online.
I think in 2015 or so Griepel was riding an aluminum frame Ridley that had been done up to look like it was carbon with bondo on the tube junctions under the paint to hide welds at PR.
Content creators. Even if you feel it’s been done. Just do it. The RUclips public has short term memories. Let the world determine the value. If you get some unexpected numbers, keep the ball rolling.
Interesting. In tennis, it's extremely common for professional players to use different racquets than what it's painted as (a much newer version of the same racquet, or even a different racquet entirely, as a lot of pros use something called H20 pro-stock that isn't available for the public to buy). They do this because they "endorse" the racquets, but they do not say they play with them.
Same with athletes and shoe sponsorship. Paint over the nike logo with 3 stripes.
Exactly. Pro tennis has been doing this for ages. It's not as a big deal as what these guys made it sound like.
If we could get a “pro” used frame and an off the shelf frame (same make/model) to Luescher teknik or another carbon specialist we could carve those frames up!!! Fun!!
The problem is...they fall... they fall a lot... carbon is strong but...
The "chain guy" reminded me of having a tubular flat repair guy and a wheel builder back in the day
Oh that's a great one "Tubular flat guy"
Ben Delaney seems pretty good. He did a video about a year ago comparing the unboxing / assembly process of three DTC brands (Canyon, Vitus and Fezzari), including build times.
His Fezzari Veyo review helped me make a buying decision a few weeks ago (as did the massive Fezzari early black Friday sale in the US).
On reviews, Hambini and Peak Torque are two that I would turn to where I feel that I am getting an unbiased technical viewpoint. I would generally use those to rule-in or rule-out a potential purpose. As an example, both Hambini and Peak Torque reviewed 9Velo wheels and both had favorable things to say...that would give me confidence that I am not buying 'junk'. One issue I do have with Hambini is that at times he will throw-in some brands into his "crap" list without any direct reference to backup that statement.
6:25
This is even funnier considering Cannondale and Cervelo have the same owner, namely Pon bikes
There is a very long history of pro cyclists riding “off brand” frames. At least in this case the bikes are actually Cannondale.
These two gossip girls making a big fuss about it
In more severe news, some years ago Israel Premiertech bought a TdF winner into their team and got an imposter, only recently revealed by finding that this imposter has a different bike fit than the real guy on that Pinarello bike.
I'd also not be surprised to hear that maybe Total Energies didn't get the real Sagan (even though they won't complain because they also got Specialized bikes - were those genuine though?...)
Chris froome bike fit story was last week.
I feel like the Nero show is the perfect avenue for leg shaving chat. I’m talking routine, etiquette, general stance on it and how far down the cycling rabbit hole you need to be to commit to the full leg shave.
For context I started as an MTBer but now do 80% of my riding and and some racing on the road. Haven’t committed to the full leg shave yet but I feel like eventually the cycling gods will decide my fate for me
Some bike shops are doing a great job in the review space right now. Loved the recent reviews of the SL8 and Madone for example from THE BICYCLE CONNECTION. Even directly comparing the two and talking like a real human about comfort, feel, character, etc.
Hambini sells aftermarket bottom brackets - he has an interest in pointing out the need for aftermarket bottom brackets.
UCI certification is there because they want to keep the costs relatively low for manufactures by preventing a situation where one manufactures dumps tons of money into building custom frames specific to each race and winning everything, and other manufactures won't want to sponsor any teams because it's too expecive.
Komoot is massive in the UK and mainland Europe. It's maybe not for the social aspect, but definitely for the route building aspect.
Cannondale had stock issues througout the whole year. I’m not sure about the Lab 71 road bike frames, but they couldn’t even deliver their TT bike to the sponsored Pro Continental and Continental teams (such as Tour de Tietema).
So I wouldn’t be surprised if they couldn’t get the stock needed on the Lab 71 frames…
I mean this was known since the beginning of the season, EF Cannondale's UCI label was different from the LAB71 UCI label. Could be because they did not had 100+ LAB71 frames to supply Male and Female WT teams in early 2023.
Average speed addiction. Admitting you have a problem is the first step Chris.
I pay attention to what Ben Delaney buys rather than what he reviews.
I really just don't care about Cannondale having Lab71 on HighMod frames. There is just, what, a 40 gram difference between them? There is no conspiracy given that they are not trying to hide it. They said on the website when sellling the old bikes that they are HighMod. I think the only reason Cannondale even came up with the Lab71 is to have something like SWorks. The HighMod has been comparable to the SWorks but just don't have the same bike snob or street cred. Lab71 gives them something to put on the side of the bike that says, "Look at me!"
Oh! And remember in the days of the steel framed bikes, a lot of the top riders would have other builders make their frames and stick the sponsor logos on them. So, the were not even riding the sponsor bikes at all.
Only a few brands out there that never did custom things for the pros, Cervelo being one of the main ones (R3 mud withstanding, but they was understandable and obvious). Specialized did custom Geo for Sagan and Cannondale did stiffer frames for the pros on the Evo
If I payed 20k for a bike that I thought the pros were riding them found out it was the next tier down I'd be PISSED. Thankfully I don't have 20k for a bike 😂
Not all team bikes are created equal….but team bikes take lots of liberties….meaning logos, spec, parts…etc for different reasons….Cannondale wants to promote the highest end bike hence the logo….it wouldve been better to straight up put that they arent real lab bikes in bold or somethimh
The Patrick Lino guy gets kudos from me, as he was very honest about the differences in ride feel between a Giant and the other Chinese frames he was accustomed to. Not many people out there will do that. Chapeau.
Regarding the Lab71 controversy, Pro teams for a good chunk of cycling history (especially GC riders) have not been riding stock bikes. In the late 90's, early 00's, there was an industry known custom bike builder in Spain that produced a lot of the GC bikes for many teams, allowing riders to have custom spec geometry while looking like the manufacture they were representing. Even today, I've heard and seen pretty solid evidence that certain riders are riding custom made bikes. Is it false advertising to imply that a team is riding a Lab71... yes, but it's gone on for a long time.
The son of Cannondale founder said in 1995, when Cannondale sponsored their first TDF team, that making different geometry for a pro riders needs, was a big challenge, if a bike of regular sizes didn't fit him. Which lead me to believe that's when they sent the order to Sarto to have the bike made. So, what if all these pro bike frames were made by Sarto, and they thought they better put the disclaimer to avoid legal action?
Back in the day, a lot of top pros rode frames made by other people but had the sponsor logos on them.
Can you share where the info is that Sarto did something special for Cannondale?
What carbon model did Cannondale manufacture in 1995?? Rgr
@@TjAlberto
I don't have him saying those words, this is from an interview with him on RUclips. He said riders from the Saeco team needed bikes that they couldn't make from their molds. This leads me to believe they went to a company like Sarto to have them made. Sarto has frame molds from over 35 bike manufacturers, they will neither confirm or deny they make bikes for these companies.
@@borano2031
You're right, Cannondale didn't have carbon fiber in their frames until 97. My point was other companies were making their race frames for riders who didn't fit their frame molds.
I asked a mechanic to look at my bearings since they hadn’t been checked in a year and he looked at me like I was insane 😭 I need a bearing guy in NYC!
I think you guys were a bit tough on Ben Delaney. He’s been in the media business for years (decades?), was made redundant a couple of years ago, and his RUclips started from that. I suspect his connections in the industry are how he gets the product to review. His reviews seem pretty honest, he called out Canyon recently for not allowing bar/cockpit substitutions and in the review Chris watched questioned BMC only offering a 36cm bar on a $16k bike. Seems legit, just think he might deserve a closer look
Hang on, I said I really liked his stuff and it was adding real value. The broader discussion was about the relevance of a RUclips review and how there as so many challenges producing them.
Maybe I interpreted it wrong, it is a slippery connection. Love the show
Every time I’ve watched or read one of Ben’s reviews I’ve come away absolutely understanding what he believes are the biket’s flaws and positives, and generally whether he believes the bike is worth buying.
He’s not going for the Hambini audience who just enjoys a good body slam, but I can assure you he’s a real journalist and is objective. And he’s clear that his thoughts are just that, his, and that in some cases yours might be different. In short, he’s trustworthy and extraordinarily knowledgeable. I’ll also point out he often wins his class in some pretty major races. Dude knows what he’s talking about.
Maybe they gave each rider ONE Lab 71 (real one) and to ''save money'', gave the team the hi-mod painted Lab 71 as SPARE BIKES, which they are selling now as the season is over... I wonder if anyone even bothered contacting EF and asking them!!!!
People forget that professional sports, all of them, are a massive advertisement exercise. This has been going on for years. They are paid to advertise what the sponsor wants to sell, not to ride the most expensive gear possible.
never heard of Blackrock before! But will use them to manage my fortune now. Great ad.
😂
Trek, Cervelo etc should be capitalizing on that nonsense. Like "Buy our bike. It's a real one. Not a fake one. We're not about BS"
Best bike talk/cast show.
Huge rabbit hole...So, this has been the case for forever- 7-11's Huffys were Serottas, Motorola's Calois were Eddy Merckx, Lance's Ti Trek TT bike was a Lightspeed, etc, etc, etc....other options--perhaps the bikes for sale were spares (cheaper bikes because they're riding on roof racks, but want to look the same in case they are used) or are training bikes? I think as long as they ARE racing MOST of the time on the bikes they're advertised as...The other thing to remember....given the history of mislabeled bikes- it really is about advertising. I'd like transparency, but it is what it is.
I rarely split up rides, but I do for some events. If I do, I make the main one public and the rest private
Yeh that's quality etiquette right there 👌🏼
Imagine paying 8k AUD for a thrashed out ex race bike when you can get a near new supersix with di2 dura ace for 1500AUD or less from a barrister off facebook lol
You guys are so bloody literal - remove the stick from thy arse ;-). EF selling Hi-Mods with a Lab71 paint job doesn't mean they're race bikes...ffs. The bike title up by the price says Hi-Mod!!! They will be training bikes...
The paint job is team branding...
Re Fake Cannondale: I’m not sure if it’s similar but many top professional tennis players don’t use the newest “top shelf” rackets that are being pushed by the major brands. They’re usually custom “pro-stock” frames available only to them painted in the current model’s paint scheme. For example: Wilson has the fabled H22 frame that many of the pros that is generations old, but painted to the newest Wilson model. Kinda misleading seeing pros market the newest tech when on match day: they’re using a 10+ year old frame with none of the “innovation.”
That's a great point. I hear it's similar in skiing
How are we going to see races, with GCN closing down next month??
The frame thing for ef might have something to do with their component sponsor. I know they were running a slightly different frame because vision didn't have an integrated headset that was compatible with Cannondales integrated headset system, running bikes with this sort of fairing to hide cables, and you couldn't buy those frames anywhere.
Advertising is always fake 😂
I want the EF to be able to keep on riding hi-mod instead of the lab71,
If not this would mean the system six would ne be put to such a great use on rouleur stages.
To all systemsix owners this was obvious, the system six does not exist as a lab71, it’s hi-mod only, same goes for the super slice, although I don’t know that it was lab71 stickered.
Get over it, it’s not more supreme more rapha more palace etc… When someone slaps a sticker on it…
Let’s be grateful for Cannondale’s great work on making all theese crazy colorways specific to grand toors, and cola orations, they bring attention to frames and financing to cycling the same way the redbull helmets does…
It’s good, it’s fun, it’s echoing the folk of all the club categories tiers, and races sponsoring, may it be a garage a window maker brand, beers, gazettes, gardening equipments or household retailers… it’s popular, it’s real, it’s part of the show.
could definitely care less about the EF bikes being painted as Lab71's lol. The pros will ride what they are able to get, with the craziness of bike manufacturing the last few years, i would guess these frames were just what was available at the quantity a pro team needs, and they were painted as the LAB71 because that is what they would typically have been riding if it were more available, or because the manufacturer wanted them to seem like they were on the top spec bikes. In reality though it really does not matter at all to the average cyclist or spectator of racing. I want to see good racing, i could care less which exact model of bike they are riding.
Actually it is not a news, it is already discovered at beginning of the season and those lab71 painted frames' UCI codes are S6HM instead of S6SL
Once you have a wax treated chain the hard part is over. Buy a $10 thrift store crock pot and some silca secret chain blend hot wax and throw it in. Turn it on, Swish your chain around in that every 300-400km and you are golden. The tedium of drip waxing your chain is probably more time consuming.
I actually bought a bottle of drip lube to use between treatments and it’s so much easier just to swish it in hot wax and hang to dry I don’t even bother. The penetration into the rollers is also superior.
Comm'n, don't hit this hard; at least they did not write "SL8." Another epic episode; thanks!
Jesse’s world is going to fall apart when he realises the only meaningful difference between Hi Mod and Lab71 is the paint job. Always has been
I liked when Cannondale frames were green/black and Sagan rode them
In ref to lab 71, I guess the core issue is integrity.
I feel if they just be honest and tell ppl what they are running, if you run special pro only versions or whatever tell ppl.
There are some followers that consistently give me kudos within a minute or two of my ride uploading. Almost like they are out there just waiting to give kudos.
HAHA!!!! I know right, I have seen similar.
I’m mad you guys predicted the death of GCN +
Not happy about that either
Honestly, I see the Lab 71 branding as disrespectful to Cannondale's highest paying customers. If I paid the higher price for the Lab 71 frame, I would now be wondering if I wasted my money. It really just feels like they are trying to trick people into buying the Lab 71 frame, when clearly the benefits aren't important enough for a pro sponsored team to care about. Very scammy IMO.
The difference between the Lab71 and HiMod is 40 grams. That makes the HiMod objectively better, right? Here's the truth, people who buy $15,000 bikes buy $15,000 bikes so their friends know they bought the most expensive one, not because it makes a bit of difference. That's why you can only talk about "if I bought one"; well, you didn't and you won't, so why do you care?. This video is just fake internet outrage over a giant nothingburger.
@@aaronjacobtrent At the end of the day I don't care who is riding what frame, but the transparency of the company does matter. Especially when they are asking for $15,000 for a bicycle.
The crazy part is that I saw this on sale, but was too late to hit the buy button bc of all the weird marketing and component choices.
Having watched Cannondale's stock over the past year looking for pro-deals, it is pretty apparent that they have had some production issues. Maybe UCI condoned this due to that problem?
Finally, I’ve been asking people to talk about this for months (and we’ve known about this for months). Nobody has seemed to care
Jesse, I'm nowhere near as good as you on the bike but I feel confident in saying if you have never used a waxed chain you are seriously missing out in more ways than one! It's way smoother, less friction, easier to maintain than having to degrease a lubed chain, quieter as well. Only a little annoying if you end up doing a ride in dirty and wet conditions as you have to use boiling water to get the filth off blowdry and rewax within a fairly quick timeframe.
WE NEED MORE AMERICAN BIKE REVIEWERS!
You should start a channel! 😀
We just need one fantastic reviewer... There's this guy in Chicago, seems to be on the move up. LOL👍😉
They had to add the HI-MOD disclaimer or there could be serious legal issues about making false claims about a product sold to the public.
Lance A rode a Litespeed Blade during TT branded as Trek
Finding authentic review content is pretty tough. I've narrowed the field to dave arthur, Cam N and Ben D for ride reviews and PT and Hambini for qualatative reviews. These guys are pretty solid i reckon
Do you remember the Huffy road race team? Do you think they built bikes? No, they were Serotta frames. Marketing is marketing.
This Lab71 affair just point out the fact that those high end bikes are just useless ! If a pro doesn't need that to win then who needs it ?? Way to much marketting BS nowadays in the bike industry.
LAB 71 topic is standard practice in sport, for example in golf players use new model head covers on old model clubs for the cameras, they also brand custom milled irons with consumer markings for continuity with advertising.
Another example would be cricket, bats are custom made and selected yet carry the standard consumer branding.
When the frame comes out of the waffle maker, QC crosses their fingers and puts the ‘burger’ on the scale. If it’s lightest it’s a LAB71. The rest of the heavier frames are ‘Pro Mods’.
I’m fairly certain when Alison Jackson won Roubaix 23🎉 she wasn’t on a LAB71 for good reason. If the entire EF cycling team were all on LAB71’s they couldn’t pay the UCI for their little stickers and team payroll deposits. There’s no such thing a fat chicken for little money, just ask yourRabbi.Don’t blame EF EDUCATION or Cannadale. It’s the UCI that is bleeds everyone.
Keep up the good work Nero!
Straight up false advertising. They are lying to potential customers that they're buying a professional level bike (and paying prices commensurate) when they're not.
In Australia should complain to your trading standards and cycling association(s).
Congrats on the BlackRock partnership guys!
On the Strava discussion, I have never understood why people request to follow then never give a single Kudos not even reciprocated.
Could be because LAB71 bikes both too light where they’d have to add weight back on to the frame AND aren’t stiff enough. So it’s better to run the Hi-Mod which is win-win
tire guys sound almost like 'wax guys' in skiing and snowboarding. they go out on the course during events and give the riders up to the minute wax based on temp, conditions, snow quality etc. really interesting
Here's a Strava etiquette that was missed... make your commutes and trainer rides private unless you think it's interesting. Or at least hit 'hide from home and club feeds', it's a check box at the bottom of your edit activity screen. It keeps it on your activity if you want it public (why?) list but stops cluttering up your mates' feed with your uninteresting stuff.
Cycling videos on RUclips, including yours, are for enjoyment and knowledge and community chit-chat and what not. And I'm not cranked about any of them, I just bail when I weary of something and that includes the Bike Vault on the GCN Tech Show, just not my cup of tea and that's okay, so much to watch, so little time, and any bike shown and discussed on screen should rate a super nice. And I really enjoy GCN in general, but not everything on every channel and I do bail and skip over some of your content, too, while commending you for this platform and perspective you have added to our viewing options. And I do like most of the content generated by Ben Delaney and his take is gravel-focused bikes and events and race recaps, pretty much. And yes, he is unique in that role as he does review bikes and gear and puts his audience in touch with lots of gravel events and generally serves as a seasoned professional inviting everyone to join him for the ride, wherever that happens to be..
It's nothing new that a pro team isn't riding what the labels say. This has been going on for as long as I can remember. I believe that the 711 team back in the day were sponsored by Huffy and of course they weren't riding Huffy bikes.
I believe the bikes they sell are their home training bikes. Hi-MOD frames painted with LAB 71 to be sponsor correct. Also using Ultegra instead of Dura-Ace. LAB-71 frames with Dura-Ace are still their race bikes.
That is misleading of Cdale there to go so far as to use the uci sticker for the other frame. I'm curious their side of it, unless it's as simple as they are trying to sell more of the expensive frames. And seriously like the 40g frame difference is going to matter anyway, seems weird to go through all of this effort.
Regarding race videos. I really like Jasper Verkuijl's race videos I find them really engaging. And watch some of VC's bur that's about it used to watch some Norcal race videos before, but was more because crit racing was a new thing for me.
LOLOLOL, OHHHH Cannondale, my FIRST real road race bike in 1985 ! Yes, the first oversized, cutting edge aluminum frame was my first race bike when I was a senior in high school. I had come from "just riding a lot" on a Motobecane Nomad touring bike sized for me 3 years prior. This "LAB71" deal is like a new 2024 S-Works ending up being actually FACT 11 tech from 2012.
The supersix issue seems like a supply thing. This way they can keep the same livery. If it was the other way(lab 71 dressed like hi-mod it would be more problematic.