There are two massive problems trying to execute this in lower elo. 1) Getting your team to ward anything for you, 2) Having your laners prevent their lanes collapsing. It can work but it's a lot more of a coin flip if you int or not.
3) enemy jungler not being aware that meta has been smiting 1st buff for over a year 4) enemy jungler doing some trash clears like wolves-blue-gromp 5) lanes that have guaranteed push not having push 6) lanes that can move not moving 7) enemy lanes that can't move moving well to be honest just full clear every game in low elo
@@bangadzakaran5564 Exactly people don't care about cs or exp or laning at all in low elo. Only kills they are like npcs. If they see you bot will immediately collapse just for one kill, mid will probably come too so even if you try to run you will still die. I laughed so hard when I saw him as elise and braum was walking with him. In the avg game that braum is near tower afk. And when he was hecarim, viego ran away, low elo that viego stands and fights you till he dies, you lose 50% of you hp and bot has already collapsed. This "strat" works in 5% of matches cause they require people to actually play like humans not kill chasing npcs.
@@bangadzakaran5564 Also practically no one starts Blue buff on blue side and at least half the games start with a level 1 invade of the whole team. If you in low ELO just full clear or even do a 3 camp gank. Basically no one will punish you for doing a 3 camp gank. Their jg will even half the time stop their clear to come fight.
Because this strategy is so common, i always save smite on blue and when they come to steal my gromp i smite it myself and the opponent wasted tons of time. I have no idea how you can have success with this cheese in challenger.
Smiting on blue gives you a faster clear due to you being lvl 2 quicker, so in the grand scheme of things it's very efficient. Since people are less likely to invade you most games, i can see why they would opt for a smite on the first camp. It probably works in challenger due to them not expecting it as much
What do you do if they kept smite from Gromp? 1. Take the loss and go back to your own jungle and full clear? 2. Fight it out if you know you have a stronger level 2? (or 2v2/3v3 if laners come to help) 3. If nobody is moving in to help you go for his wolves since you would still have smite, but he won't? It has only happened to me twice and in both games I took my loss and walked back to my jungle and full cleared from there. I did skip my golems though, because walking back takes so much time and if I don't then the enemy jungler can easily invade and take 1 or 2 camps or get double scuttle which I want to try and prevent from happening. Also, what if the river bush is warded? do you still go for it or do you walk back to your own jungle?
A helpful way to minimize the chance of them getting you with this strat is when you are on top side is to kite the gromp into the bush. I have only ever had 1 guy check the bush when I was getting cheesed by this so much.
I would like a more detailed view of the fallback after stealing blue/gromp when they start oppo. Let's assume there are no ganks available, what's your PVE path? You know they just finished wolves right behind your gromp, they are at 16 vs your 12 CS. They have red buff, you don't. You have no wards in their jungle, so they could reverse back to your blue or invade your red. Where do you go now?
1) if you beat them lvl 3 vs lvl 3, try to jump into their wolves camp with the blast cone, or just start it and fight them on it if they come. It'll be a smite fight since you'll both have it. 2) let them get wolves, leave your krugs red open. Go straight to your bot camps and full clear back blue-gromp wolves back to your raptors respawn, check red, steal gromp again + wolves if you can. 3) a couple more options but I got bored of thinking
Something you didnt mention that i think you have in mind is your solo laners matchups and if they can get prio, also after getting their blue side and going to raptors through the tower, you watch your bot if they have prio, cuz if your bot is pushed to tower, theirs can rotate first and catch you. And i think this invade would be very risky and might not work when your laners and scaling champs like kayle top and smolder mid and theirs are champs that can push waves fast and rotate like talon or akshan.
Not every champ can walk in between mid towers without taking a shot, some champs HAVE to take 2 shots. It all depends on champion size of anyone is wondering
The problem with xin is that u need 3 spells to be usefull (good combo with E - Q3 - W) And with kha, i think u are too slow doing raptor start They key is having good lvl 2, and being able to clear raptors fast ( graves/nida/kindred/lee...)
I hadnt played league for near a year and even tho im low elo ive noticed the game has changed significantly (leashing is uncommon, new items, etc) but ive personally never smited by starting camp, is this a new thing jglers are doing, maybe because its basically always leashless now?
Do you think that rengar is strong enough lvl 2 to do that as well ? I think it is hard because there are not a lot of bushes to abuse and the raptors are hard to do lvl 1. What do you think ?
The actual best counter is to start on your wolves, not your raptors, kill the blast cone lvl 1 and ward the entrance to see them coming. If you see the person crossing to your blue side, you next take your raptors, then krugs, then your red and go to his red/krugs/blue side crab. Get as much as you can and make sure you are basing on time to get to your gromp for the respawn. The effect of this is, because he cleared all his camps later than you cleared yours, he's now homeless for 40s, and will grief himself forcing a play. You will get your gromp bc you have items and he does not (and he has no lvl advantage,) and you have an easy full clear after gromp because you killed wolves/raptors/krugs in sequence, while his camps were killed randomly out of order. The only camp he will have on the entire map is his raptors, which he is incentivized to overstay for, because it respawns at 3:50, which doesn't give him time to recall again and spend all of his gold. Also, because he doesn't start sweeper, he doesn't have a ward at his red side jungle entrance, because his mid laner warded your raptors, so he has no way to know that you are there. The lvl 1 mid lane raptor ward will have also timed out by the time you finish red, so they will not see you cross back. If the person doesn't cross to your blue side, you can either do the grub lvl 5 path, or just treat it like a reverse raptor start.
I've tried this and there was a situation where they had it warded in the river so they knew I was coming. Do I just abandon ship in that situation? or just still go for their gromp
> be me > silver elo > enemy jungler sees me for .1 seconds, out of smite range > insta smites camp i guess not all strategies are meant for everyone, unless this assumes enemy jungler smited his blue or red buff?
@@johnebbers5170 i see, i'll try this on some norms before taking it to ranked, i can see this being a very cheeky strat on Kayn (my main) together with the raptors cheese >:)
You guys think it is smart/doable for Diana? If it works you have nearly free scaling till lvl 6+ and he is screwed. Otherwise you want to full clear, if it doesn’t work your pretty much fuked
Sounds legit how it works, but as another ppl said here. some ppl get a leash and are fast with clearing blue especially on red side, saving their smite for another camp. So u are wasting dozens of time, doing this. In my games around plat/emerald midlaners / toplaners / bot going crazy to help their jungler and roam me for a heavy disadvantage. Maybe they are losing a lot @ their lanes but mostly it doesnt matter @ emerald and below because mostly the lane is decided whos the better player or who has better understanding of wave manipulation or smth. @ this video u almost ever had prio at the lane u were pathing to or if not the midlaner or someone else didnt mind to roam cause they know their lane is fked if they do especially at high elo. In my opinion it "can" work , but if not u are heavily behind here. Correct me, if i am wrong
There are two massive problems trying to execute this in lower elo. 1) Getting your team to ward anything for you, 2) Having your laners prevent their lanes collapsing. It can work but it's a lot more of a coin flip if you int or not.
3) enemy jungler not being aware that meta has been smiting 1st buff for over a year
4) enemy jungler doing some trash clears like wolves-blue-gromp
5) lanes that have guaranteed push not having push
6) lanes that can move not moving
7) enemy lanes that can't move moving
well to be honest just full clear every game in low elo
@@bangadzakaran5564 Exactly people don't care about cs or exp or laning at all in low elo. Only kills they are like npcs. If they see you bot will immediately collapse just for one kill, mid will probably come too so even if you try to run you will still die. I laughed so hard when I saw him as elise and braum was walking with him. In the avg game that braum is near tower afk. And when he was hecarim, viego ran away, low elo that viego stands and fights you till he dies, you lose 50% of you hp and bot has already collapsed. This "strat" works in 5% of matches cause they require people to actually play like humans not kill chasing npcs.
@@bangadzakaran5564 Also practically no one starts Blue buff on blue side and at least half the games start with a level 1 invade of the whole team. If you in low ELO just full clear or even do a 3 camp gank. Basically no one will punish you for doing a 3 camp gank. Their jg will even half the time stop their clear to come fight.
@@bradhurst6834in low elo just stomp them lol, what you need cheese strats for
Because this strategy is so common, i always save smite on blue and when they come to steal my gromp i smite it myself and the opponent wasted tons of time. I have no idea how you can have success with this cheese in challenger.
yea same, its insane to me as a low master jungler.
Smiting on blue gives you a faster clear due to you being lvl 2 quicker, so in the grand scheme of things it's very efficient. Since people are less likely to invade you most games, i can see why they would opt for a smite on the first camp. It probably works in challenger due to them not expecting it as much
If you dont smite first camp ur much slower on first clear and also much less healthy due to tanking the camp longer
Oh my god bro i use the exact same gizmo pic and name on faceit (CS). In Brazil 😮
Its the HP differential that makes this so strong. The invader has a huge HP advantage because they have only fought 1 camp.
What do you do if they kept smite from Gromp?
1. Take the loss and go back to your own jungle and full clear?
2. Fight it out if you know you have a stronger level 2? (or 2v2/3v3 if laners come to help)
3. If nobody is moving in to help you go for his wolves since you would still have smite, but he won't?
It has only happened to me twice and in both games I took my loss and walked back to my jungle and full cleared from there.
I did skip my golems though, because walking back takes so much time and if I don't then the enemy jungler can easily invade and take 1 or 2 camps or get double scuttle which I want to try and prevent from happening.
Also, what if the river bush is warded? do you still go for it or do you walk back to your own jungle?
Great knowledge! Thank you, have a great day.
in lower elo, it hurts not doing this. Laners dont contest and the enemy will always have prio.
Thank you for explaining this! I've been trying to figure out what the heck the 5-second rule is.
A helpful way to minimize the chance of them getting you with this strat is when you are on top side is to kite the gromp into the bush. I have only ever had 1 guy check the bush when I was getting cheesed by this so much.
This is so good dude. Well played.
I would like a more detailed view of the fallback after stealing blue/gromp when they start oppo. Let's assume there are no ganks available, what's your PVE path? You know they just finished wolves right behind your gromp, they are at 16 vs your 12 CS. They have red buff, you don't. You have no wards in their jungle, so they could reverse back to your blue or invade your red. Where do you go now?
You want to stabilise so you just run to the side of your jg that might get stolen and full clear from there, in the end you will be up 8 cs
1) if you beat them lvl 3 vs lvl 3, try to jump into their wolves camp with the blast cone, or just start it and fight them on it if they come. It'll be a smite fight since you'll both have it.
2) let them get wolves, leave your krugs red open. Go straight to your bot camps and full clear back blue-gromp wolves back to your raptors respawn, check red, steal gromp again + wolves if you can.
3) a couple more options but I got bored of thinking
thanks to you I have first time Elise in my master games trying to invade and throwing the entire game thanks 👍👍
Knowing my luck, both enemy lanes will immediately collapse onto me and forgo all their XP and gold just to fuck me over
Something you didnt mention that i think you have in mind is your solo laners matchups and if they can get prio, also after getting their blue side and going to raptors through the tower, you watch your bot if they have prio, cuz if your bot is pushed to tower, theirs can rotate first and catch you. And i think this invade would be very risky and might not work when your laners and scaling champs like kayle top and smolder mid and theirs are champs that can push waves fast and rotate like talon or akshan.
Also, even if this works. Your Camps are level 1 and opponents camps respawn at level 4 so in one single clear he gets your same level
Not every champ can walk in between mid towers without taking a shot, some champs HAVE to take 2 shots.
It all depends on champion size of anyone is wondering
“I take the golems and then I take the mundo’s life” 🥶
This guy basically basics on every basic possible
First and foremost thank you for the video, and now i have a question: is it possible to start with your Red buff and use the 5 sec rule?
You won’t be able to complete red in time without smite
what if you don't have prio on lanes? Enemies can move to the forest after you chase away the enemy jungler
bro i was waiting for this vid sm
Will you ever do a Khazix one by any chance?
I have a question: can i do this with any champ? like, if im playing xin zhao or k6 maybe?
The problem with xin is that u need 3 spells to be usefull (good combo with E - Q3 - W)
And with kha, i think u are too slow doing raptor start
They key is having good lvl 2, and being able to clear raptors fast ( graves/nida/kindred/lee...)
K6 can do it, had a guy doin it to me Yesterday. Watched some of his Games and he did it in others too..
@@mmmm-dm3jo Xin zhao can do it, he has pretty good lvl 2, u start raptors with e, and lvl2 max q, u smash enemy jgler
@@mmmm-dm3jo u just need to level up e and q
but if I’m a jungler that does raptors first and I have my blue warded, I would just invade your blue side so isn’t this just vertical jungling
I hadnt played league for near a year and even tho im low elo ive noticed the game has changed significantly (leashing is uncommon, new items, etc) but ive personally never smited by starting camp, is this a new thing jglers are doing, maybe because its basically always leashless now?
Looks like your opponents don’t have the smite button
Do you think that rengar is strong enough lvl 2 to do that as well ? I think it is hard because there are not a lot of bushes to abuse and the raptors are hard to do lvl 1. What do you think ?
Who do you ban while doing this strat? something like shaco?
The actual best counter is to start on your wolves, not your raptors, kill the blast cone lvl 1 and ward the entrance to see them coming.
If you see the person crossing to your blue side, you next take your raptors, then krugs, then your red and go to his red/krugs/blue side crab. Get as much as you can and make sure you are basing on time to get to your gromp for the respawn.
The effect of this is, because he cleared all his camps later than you cleared yours, he's now homeless for 40s, and will grief himself forcing a play. You will get your gromp bc you have items and he does not (and he has no lvl advantage,) and you have an easy full clear after gromp because you killed wolves/raptors/krugs in sequence, while his camps were killed randomly out of order. The only camp he will have on the entire map is his raptors, which he is incentivized to overstay for, because it respawns at 3:50, which doesn't give him time to recall again and spend all of his gold.
Also, because he doesn't start sweeper, he doesn't have a ward at his red side jungle entrance, because his mid laner warded your raptors, so he has no way to know that you are there. The lvl 1 mid lane raptor ward will have also timed out by the time you finish red, so they will not see you cross back.
If the person doesn't cross to your blue side, you can either do the grub lvl 5 path, or just treat it like a reverse raptor start.
I've tried this and there was a situation where they had it warded in the river so they knew I was coming. Do I just abandon ship in that situation? or just still go for their gromp
How do you scout where enemy jgl starts?
This strategy will be written in the history books.
does this work with graves? if so do you start E or Q
Can’t u start wolves >gromp and then stalemate blue buff?
what if their botlane and midlane have prio tho? 🤔
my question is... why TF is scrubnoob starting blue as renagar? ç_ç
What if the jungler gets a leash ffom his team and he has his smite up? Then what should we do
in most elo people dont leash anymore no ?
@@teo6036Any elo below master does :c
you should be watching the lanes for that, if they leash they will show up later to lane.
Guys what if i do the Narnia strat and the enemy midlaner follows up at the wolves while i took hes gromp, What should i do in this case???
Does this work as rengar?
doesnt seem so secret to me
why are they starting blue buff lol
> be me
> silver elo
> enemy jungler sees me for .1 seconds, out of smite range
> insta smites camp
i guess not all strategies are meant for everyone, unless this assumes enemy jungler smited his blue or red buff?
It does assume that they used smite on the buff, but this should be what they do in 95% of games because leashing doesn't really happen anymore
@@johnebbers5170 i see, i'll try this on some norms before taking it to ranked, i can see this being a very cheeky strat on Kayn (my main) together with the raptors cheese >:)
@@lilbod3 im emerald and people mostly leash. I dont and sometimes get spam pinged. x)
@@davidsupolik1860 damn, I ping people away when they try to leash me cause it genuinely puts them at a disadvantage
You guys think it is smart/doable for Diana? If it works you have nearly free scaling till lvl 6+ and he is screwed. Otherwise you want to full clear, if it doesn’t work your pretty much fuked
Its matchup depended on every jungler. Elise can fight most junglers level 2 while they are low from gromp.
Sounds legit how it works, but as another ppl said here. some ppl get a leash and are fast with clearing blue especially on red side, saving their smite for another camp. So u are wasting dozens of time, doing this. In my games around plat/emerald midlaners / toplaners / bot going crazy to help their jungler and roam me for a heavy disadvantage. Maybe they are losing a lot @ their lanes but mostly it doesnt matter @ emerald and below because mostly the lane is decided whos the better player or who has better understanding of wave manipulation or smth. @ this video u almost ever had prio at the lane u were pathing to or if not the midlaner or someone else didnt mind to roam cause they know their lane is fked if they do especially at high elo. In my opinion it "can" work , but if not u are heavily behind here. Correct me, if i am wrong
omegadoomed :D
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