Who Speaks Best Japanese, Joey, Matt, or Dogen?
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Learn Japanese with Yuta: bit.ly/357WT4q
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Joey / @joeytheanimeman
Matt / mattvsjapan
Dogen / dogen
Learn Japanese with me -> bit.ly/3ID8FCr
Hello yuta
I certainly have the worst Japanese, but I'm also the most jōzu
日本語上手ですね！
I find it funny how jōzu became the traditional Japanese way of telling a foreigner their Japanese sucks
I agree.
i love how he wasn't happy with just this comment so he literally made a whole video out of it lmfao
@@HardcoreMasterBaiter isn't jōzu means good?
I think, with Dogen, he intentionally speaks more carefully/articulately so it's easier understood by people learning Japanese, which are his primary audience.
Yeah for sure
He says he talks like this in english also tho
Yeah, at least Yuta speaks fluent english unlike John Daub, he's been living in Japan for 25 years and he still speaks Japanese like a typical foreigner. Is John Daub that lazy?
@@gofer3836 I wouldn't call it laziness. I think that's a distinction between people who want to perfect their Japanese skills so as to sound native, and those who just want to get their ideas across without caring if they sound native or not. Both of these stances being perfectly valid in my books
@@月宮しろ-s7s Not laziness? He consistently (if not intentionally) mispronounces his wife's name, Kanae. Instead, he says, Kanai. He refuse to stretch the "e" sound. Also, the town called Ueno, instead he say it, Weino. Multiple people corrected him but he refused. But then, he criticizes other people pronunciation. After 25 years, he still not get it? Now,........ you tell me that's NOT a laziness.
Dogen's comedy simultaneously only works when delivered in Japanese, but also often requires presentation in English for the full effect even when not directly about being someone who speaks Japanese as a second language like a lot of it is, specifically because of how much of his comedy is targeted at English speakers learning Japanese.
One of his best videos is "Japanese In 10 Years", and it wouldn't work in any other language, because the joke is predicated on the way he's actually using the language itself.
Hell, in this video, he uses a clip of Dogen subtitled "Yes, another addition to my slave army", but the *joke* is that what he actually said was "Yosh, getto da ze!", the catchphrase the main character of Pokemon says when he captures another Pokemon (to add to his slave army). The joke doesn't work without both the Japanese and English elements. Same with "Dante's Inferno" ("Pachinko-ten") and "Chocolate, if you please" ("atatatata tatata ta zuukyn", the refrain of Gimme Chocolate by Baby Metal).
"Yes, another addition to my slave army"
This reminds me of an official Pokémon translation that mixed up the two main meanings of 元気 ("energetic" and "healthy").
That's what I like about Dogen. I sometimes use my desire to understand his comedy videos better as encouragement whenever I'm struggling.
dougen is the peak of comedy, some amounts of knowledge of both english and japanese is required to understand the comedy.
@@inendlesspain4724 theres even a word for energetic anime girl genki
Joey's exposure is not only through his mother, but also his Japanese relatives and several accumulated months of work-stays in Japan even before finally moving there for his channel. At age 16 he also passed the JLPT N1 level. He does know Keigo perfectly, so if he's not applying it in certain interviews it seems more like a semi-conscious choice (to keep the 'cool persona' up or if the setting is more layed back I guess).
Also for Dogen and Matt, it's two completely different kind of videos you compared. Matt's video is one based on freely speeking while to bring a point across, while Dogen's is a scripted video in which he deliberately speaks overly articulated and slow for his audience (Japanese learners) and comedic effect. You'd have to find a video where he speaks naturally to another Japanese person to really make a judgement on his Japanese.
If anyone knows who joey is it's his fans..and I'm one of em
I'll give Dougen the prize solely because he focuses on humor. It takes quite a lot of ability and linguistic knowledge to pull off humor in a foreign language.
The part you were talking about Joey having no accent, I had to chuckle a bit when I remembered that Japanese people thought that you Yuta-san were a foreigner trying to speak Japanese in a previous video...
Which one?
@@BakaBaka8146 That video is called: "Can Japanese Spot Foreigners' Japanese by Listening? (Osaka)"
also read the hilarious comments under the video's.
tea
He said that? Every human who speaks has an accent.
thats prolly cuz of bilingualness you mix accent especially in a metropolitan accent, like south jakartan is typical of indonesian, midwest american is the usual representation while some relic of british accent that land on mideast US still exist sparingly, either search for accent polyglot dialect or sample text slander memes for resources. besides formal resources
Joey seems like he knows a lot about the language because of his upringing, but you can tell he prefers to be casual about it.
The way I see Joey's attitude. He knows proper manners and the heirarchy and the proper language to be respectful. But he has western attitudes towards that where your boss or your senpai are worthless ideas. You respect the people you want to respect. The people that earned that respect. Not the people that simply existed longer than you. Honestly I hold the same attitude.
I intend to learn japanese but won't really conform that strongly to the idea of someone being higher or lower than me. I think its dumb and Joey comes off as the kind of person that practices that attitude. But can pretend to give a shit if it means avoiding unneeeded hassle.
@@ceresbane "You respect the people you want to respect."
I don't respect everyone, I only respect who I respect.
he prefers to rap about
@@ceresbane LOL you misunderstood polite language, you think being polite is to see some people up or down of you... it's not really that, it's more like distancing them from you, in my case I am used, since in Spanish we also have polite language, at least is still used in Mexico, we pretty much use it with our elders, bosses and strangers, it's not really a big deal, I find hilarious how people is too insecure to believe keigo is a big deal to the point get legit anger to it.
the fun thing about keigo it's in some situations is insulting to use it.
@@PEDROGARCIA-qj3gr no i understand that. even english has polite manners of speaking. Especially in regards to referring to knights, lords, ladies (dumb titles like lady dowager countess of assland), mayors (right royal and honourable major of the city of london) and royalty (depending on your own status and occassional, your highness, royal highness, your majesty, my queen, and you can actually use these incorrectly at any given time) and the clergy. But also just switching form and word choices due to formality.
At its face its just dumb.
My only real exception to this being you EARNING titles of significant achievement. Like phd, esquire, VC, etc. But even so I wouldn't be reverently formal with such people, I would merely be respectful. Formal speech just comes off as overly brown nosey to me. When I want to communicate with people I want it to be made abundantly clear I want no barriers at play in the exchange.
I want a free exchange of words and transparencies.
Three of them inspire Japanese language learners a lot for sure and actually we Japanese get lots of inspiration from them too! I’ll make more efforts to be able to speak native-like English 😆💓
すごい
Not for John Daub, he's been living in Japan for 25 years and he still speaks Japanese like a typical foreigner. Is John Daub that lazy? He can't even say his wife's name correctly.
You're pretty close already, so good job! As Yuta says, foreign language learners sometimes have a better grasp of a language than native speakers, and I can tell you from experience that even you write better than many native English speakers I know. :D Keep up the good work!
@@gofer3836 lmao
Wow, if you've learned English. You sound native to me! Amazing!
Dogen is my go to source whenever I need motivation. I'm currently studying japanese as my third language, and whenever I watch one of his videos, I just get this desire to understand the jokes, instantly making me motivated again. I love this guy
I used to really respect and look up to Matt, he was the sole reason I was able to find out about AJATT, Stephen Krashen, etc. I'd love to be proven wrong but the marketing of Project Uproot has all the hallmark signs of being a complete and utter scam (telling you there's problem, not explaining his solution, creating false scarcity, time pressure, huge asking price, etc). To top it all off, he's deleting any comments on his videos expressing any concern about it, confirming either that it is in fact a scam or, that he has an incredibly fragile ego. It's really disappointing to say the least
as much as I like Matt, I kinda have to agree. Although I do think it's because of the latter(fragile ego), cuz u know how defensive he can get sometimes haha
Yeah it's screaming scam alert the way it was shown
I have a feeling matt paid him to make this. The timing is very suspicious with him trying to scam his 700$ course at this same time.
I love Matt but kinda have to agree on that one too. I subscribed to his newsletter some time ago and the amount of mails related to the project was a little, well, excessive. It doesn't necessarily have to be a scam but it seems a little off. I wouldn't have expected this type of marketing from him tbh.
I agree that the promotion videos he made with Ken Cannon for Project Uproot are over the top and use a lot of sketchy language in the style of late night infomercials. But the actual price for the course, which I think is $500, is much less than I was expecting. $500 for an intensive two month course of the nature he describes is actually not unreasonable IMO (assuming he and Ken actually deliver on what they promise and also really honor their money-back guarantee). I personally have no desire to do it but for someone that wants their hand held throughout the process it might be a decent option.
As weird as it may sound, Dogen has been a huge influence on me. Any time I'm struggling I use the fact that I just want to understand his comedy as encouragement.
Joeyさんの日本語は日本人と同じ発音だと思います。MattさんとDogenさんの日本語は非常に素晴らしいですが、日本人ではないことは分かります。
Can we take a moment to appreciate, how good yuta looks in that pink shirt.
Oooo would love to see a part 2!...D_D
Your Japanese is great too 😃 👍
Yeah, were he actually puts a little effort and finds some extended free speaking and gives an honest opinion! Not this sham of a video that coincides with project Uproot (kusa)... Anyways, I like your channel!
Cant deny the fact that Dogen sounds coolest
He sound like anime characters, he speak slow and clear so its easy to follow.
One thing to take into account about matt and dogen is the difference between their scripted and unscripted videos. in this video you've taken a scripted video (dogen) and compared it to an unscripted one (matt) and used that to come to the conclusion that matt's speech is slightly more natural, but in actuality their speaking style in their scripted videos is about the same and it's likely that dogen only sounds that way in his videos and streams and is more natural in person. I imagine the exaggerated and highly enunciated way they speak in scripted videos is to ensure that the target audience (English speakers) can catch everything they're saying.
Yuta san, could you make a video about the claims by Matt and his business partner Ken Cannon that if you don't have a perfect pronunciation, no Japanese person will take you seriously and actually speak to you as an equal? Is pitch accent THAT important? They're trying to sell a very expensive course using these statements.
This!
Look at the timing of this. Matt most likely paid him to make this video in order to further promote his course
@@lastninjaitachi That’s very cynical of you!
@@funkyfranx how is it cynical look at the facts. Literally 2 days ago Matt started pushing his scam course saying people need it to speak Japanese, then all of a sudden theres this video made talking about how hes such an amazing speaker. Man such a huge coincidence!!
@@lastninjaitachi correlation and causation. Yes you found a possible motive, but without any sort of proof you sound more deranged than conspiracy nutters.
I really love how unexpectedly into anime yuta is lmao
I love the subtle monogatari reference at 4:30 as well
It's not the first time he makes a reference to Hanekawa's catchphrase, but it's always fun when he does it.
Yeah
I am not a Japanese person, so I cannot speak for how good they are but I find it hard to believe that Matt could possibly have more speaking experience than a guy who is married to a Japanese woman and has been living in Japan for 10+ years. Dogen literally uses Japanese every day
It's easy to live in a country for decades and have little speaking experience if 1) Your conversations have limited breadth (i.e. you use Japanese daily but only for basic things) or 2) Your social circle is primarily English speaking.
Trust me this is very common among Western foreigners living in Asia and Africa.
@@Solidude4 Exactly. Same reasoning behind "Just because you've lived in a country for x amount of years, doesn't necessarily mean that you're fluent in that language".
For instance, not all Americans who are of a certain age let's say 18, will have the same level of English proficiency or command over the language. Even though all of them have lived the same considerable amount of years speaking and living the language.
Dogen literally says he only speaks English at home.
Dogen himself has said on numerous occasions that his Japanese isn't as good as he'd like because he can't speak naturally. And that's mostly because he's a shy introvert. If you don't go out of your way to speak a language, it doesn't matter where you live.
I am a native Hungarian, and I swear I've been genuinely starting to get better at English than Hungarian. How? I rarely talk to friends here, my workplace is fully international, and I exclusively consume English language content for entertainment. I barely use the language, so of course I'm not great at it
@@Solidude4 This is a huge, incorrect assumption. He uses the language constantly.
that's right! their Japanese is native level
the way they speak Japanese is exactly how we speak .if I hear their Japanese without knowing who they are, I would think they are Japanese.I found their channel recently and I was so surprised it too! this is really interesting video thank you for sharing yuta san😊
I think Dogen’s videos are just more scripted which is why they sound less natural.
Add to the fact he's making Japanese videos specifically for English speakers. It's purposefully more textbook.
Such a cultured man
Really, how could you be more likeable than by making Monogatari references?
Can we get a Yuta t-shirt that says "I will teach you the kind of Japanese that real life Japanese people actually speak today, which can be different from the type of Japanese that apps and textbooks teach you"
I used to really like Matt, but you should comment on how shady he’s gotten recently with trying to scam people on his secret “method” and the leaked video of him talking about people viewing him as a god and wanting to target rich and gullible “whales.”
Where can I find this leaked video lol
@@CaCtuSnyan everywhere if u know how 4chan hunt a flag using astronomy everything in public medium is endless not counting inteligentsia member which is not for public consumes
he has always been like that and there have been multiple signs over the years, him previously fucking over his business partners in the most shady ways. Unfortunately this is not new and he will continue to abuse, scam, lie and cheat.
Look at the timing of this video. Seems oddly suspicious almost like matt asked him to make it
@@lastninjaitachi auspicious for matt inauspicious for the uninitiated aka how the greek sinister is bad but the roman sinister is good - etymonline
Joey has straight up taught elders in his company geexplus about obscure kanji structures that they never even heard of. 40+ year old Japanese salary men were learning from him lol.
your english is so good, im just so stunned every time. no japanese youtuber (well, those that didnt grow up over seas that is) can even touches u
Yeah, at least he speaks fluent english unlike John Daub, he's been living in Japan for 25 years and he still speaks Japanese like a typical foreigner. Is John Daub that lazy?
Scripted or not, Yuta's 英語 is seriously上手ですね
Edit: I didn't mean to be condescending. It's a reference from Dōgen videos
i'd say it's even better than 上手ですね
Yeah, 上手ですね is like an insult
@@rektninja4289 上手って絶対悪口じゃないよ
@@rektninja4289 yeah use pera2x or sino japanese word for fluency( from the verb to flow)* i wanted to say kein kuso fgo sherlock holmes but im being down to earth here(sseth: integrate into the fuceking soil)
@@rektninja4289ええ？どーゆーこと？ その人は、冗談な作って思いますw
Matt's Japanese is of course better than many foreigners. But at the same there are so many foreigners that speak Japanese much better than him, that aren't using scam tactics to try and sell an extremely overpriced course. He either tries to portray himself or others portray as him some kind of expert, when he is not. Perhaps this is his doing, or perhaps this is the result of trying to fit a persona. No one knows but him. Instead of this one example of Matt's Japanese in the video, if you actually watch his stuff you can find a lot where his phrasing is.. awkward, even to a learner's ear.
I like Yuta, love the work he does, and I'm even subscribed to his premium course which I think is worth the price contrary to what some other learners think. The timing of this video compared to the situation with Matt's content and the current opinion on him in the Japanese learning community, and also that Matt's section doesn't have a "but..." is really hard to overlook.
Scam is a heavy charge. Care to say more? I watch him and I think he gives a lot of fantastic advice. But he's also (IMO deservedly) quite confident in his JP ability. Maybe this is the reason for all that venom in your comment?
@@_MRK87 I used to think the same as you. While I don't think he's a terrible person, if you just look into him a bit you can easily find how shady he can be. There is a leaked video chat where he talks about making a "grossly overpriced" (his words) learning service marketed through an email list to target people with a lot of money. This is exactly what project uproot is doing. While I understand this is a common business practice and in the end he is running a business the more you look into him the more sketchy behavior he emits. He also talks about how good he is at making people believe he is wayyy better than he actually is at Japanese and he seems to have a bit of a god complex too. I do enjoy his content tho lol
He isnt all hes cracked up to be. Hes not bad but he is by no means better than most long time learners. He even stated himself he over inflates how good he is to sell his product.
@@khalil1626 link please?
@@_MRK87 Mostly the marketing tactics that they used. The whole framing of "you've got an infection and I can cure you"; the FOMO now-or-never pressure, etc. All of those things are common tactics used in scams. Mind you, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a scam. It just means they're using similar tactics.
Those tactics + the fact that both Matt and Ken have had ventures fail quite publicly in the recent past, and that was enough for me to stay away from it. I hope the people who signed up get their money's worth, but personally I'm playing it safe. Just too many red flags.
I guess right now the most worrying thing is that there are people saying they paid some amount just to apply, but it doesn't seem like that guarantees they will be selected for the course. Maybe they'll be reimbursed, idk, but apparently there's a lack of transparency there and some people are worried that they won't get their money back if they don't get selected. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Wouldn't Joey class as being 'well spoken' as he has more vocabulary than majority of the average natives.
First of all: nobody is better than Nagatoro.
Second: great video!
I FRICKEN LOVE YOUR VIDEOS FOR REAL THEY ARE INCREDIBLE
I'm curious what other Japanese people think of their Japanese too. Maybe a street interview?
I’m Japanese. I think Joey is a native Japanese speaker so it’s even odd to argue whether his Japanese is good or not. Matt and Dogen’s Japanese is impressive but not native level. I think Matt’s Japanese sounds more natural than Dogen.
i've been watching your channel for almost seven years and the way you've started inserting anime into your content more and more over the past couple years has been really amusing. i definitely enjoy hearing about your taste in anime
Dogen actually made a video about that he does 20-30 takes per line in his videos and chooses the one that he feels the best about and goes for a specific style
Bruh can we get a "Who speaks better English? for Japanese RUclipsrs? Yuta and Sora the Troll would make good candidates.
ATSU IS STORONGEST
You should get in touch with Oriental Pearl, who also speaks Chinese, or even Cathy Cat, who's another polyglot
@Winter However, he never assessed her Japanese skills in the same way he's assessing these fine chaps, hence my statement about these ladies.
Dogen recognized that his natural speech (even in english) is not as "eloquent" as others. In his unscripted videos he struggles to express his ideas (makes me empathise because i'm in the same boat lol), even though you can tell he has a very large vocabulary and knowledge. On the other hand, Matt is very fast to convey precise ideas and Joey has a distinctly comedic timing.
What i'm trying to say is that there's some people that have an overall better communication/social skill in different aspects. I'm not saying that Dogen is a bad communicator, he has specialized in scripting and reciting and he's amazing at it. But Matt and Joey have a different set of skills which gives them a more "natural" vibe.
In his defense, the unscripted videos or streams of Dogen are almost always alone speaking to the camera which is completely different to speaking to people.
Yuta-san has been looking very good lately. The hairstyle and the short beard really suit him well!
As much as I like this channel, there's a reason why I don't really follow people like them. I only observe this behavior in the Japanese learning community for some reason, but some people treat learning it as a contest, trying to dogpile each other to see who the best non-native is, and who can outperform the "champion". There are so many non-natives of for instance English and Spanish, very rarely do learners gain media attention and natives lose their minds. Natives of either usually just give a nonchalant reaction like "oh cool, you speak it well", whereas non-native Japanese speakers are viewed as gods among men. Some find this inspiring, but I honestly think it sends the wrong message to learners and ruins the spirit of the language learning community. It's not a contest nor a performance, yet it develops that mindset in others thinking it's okay and that's how it is when it's actually toxic. You can speak a language well and still not get along with others. If you're boring or otherwise unpleasant to be around, most people like myself would be out of there fast, in which case proficiency doesn't really matter now does it? Have a life outside learning a language if you truly want natives to like you because they don't owe you anything.
Mind you, I have learned Japanese but not actively anymore, nor do I take it as seriously as these guys nowadays. It's become more of a side thing. I'm currently actively learning Icelandic when I can and honestly find it harder than Japanese. If you don't know it, you can't make a good comparison. What kind of value are they contributing to the community anyway by showing off?
You're totally right about this only being the most visible in the Japanese learning community. Its such a pain in the ass.
@@dante4444 Exactly! Natives are generally supportive of learners' efforts. I've seen Spanish learners encourage each other which is great. But when some Japanese learners encounter each other online, I've seen a bunch of things happen. Like asking how long they've been at it, trying to one-up each other over how many words they know, how good their grammar and pitch accents are, how many kanji they know, etc. Or a beginner saying they're learning Japanese, then somebody pretending to be a native writing something the beginner doesn't understand and making them feel like a subordinate. There's a subreddit called "why is the Japanese learning community so elitist?" or something like that if you want to look it up
@@michaelrespicio5683 I've read that exact thread. Most of it has to do with gatekeeping to be honest, mainly by folks who revere Japan and their culture/women. Also, being an anime fanatic has something to do with it. Its like they're trying to add many checks and balances to prevent the "dirty west" from polluting Japan.
@@dante4444 It turns out that's the exact wording. If you look it up, there are other ones like it. Unfortunately attaching non-RUclips links gets the comment automatically deleted now so I can't add it. Honestly the gatekeeping thing is kind of cringy and have no idea how this all started. But this is why I often try to remind people to use the language (regardless of what it is) with the natives and let them decide if accept you. If they do, then who cares what non-natives have to say about your skills? Connecting with others isn't just about a common language, which is why we should all have other things in life so that interactions become more fun and engaging.
Your Japanese English accent is more entertaining than a native accent Yuta so don't think your English speaking is bad👍
Yeah, at least Yuta speaks fluent english unlike John Daub, he's been living in Japan for 25 years and he still speaks Japanese like a typical foreigner. Is John Daub that lazy?
I swear your anime opinions are some of the most based
We'll fight for Takagi supremacy together!
Can you make a review on Mackenyu’s Japanese over the years? Please! People say he still has an accent, but I’m foreign so for me he sounds like a native. I’d like to know what you think about his Japanese as a Japanese native speaker :)
Yeah, John Daub for example, he's been living in Japan for 25 years and he still speaks Japanese like a typical foreigner. Is John Daub that lazy?
I love Ueno-san but I wasn't expecting it to be mentioned
Ueno was a great show. Yuta is a man of taste, I see.
*I WAS NOT EXPECTING WHAT THE PERSON HE WAS INTERVIEWING WAS WEARING*
Isn't Joey a native speaker? 🤔
4:49
Me turning my phone then realising💀💀💀💀
They're all great, and so are you Yuta.
It is not really fair to use Joey since he grew up with Japanese as 2nd native language and never had to truly learn it as second language like Matt and Dogen
But that doesn't change the fact that his Japanese is better.
@@mfreak1126 maybe fluency is very subjective now-a-days.
@@mfreak1126 Of course it is better. Japanes is his 2nd native language .
YES, THANK YOU. IT'S NOT FAIR TO COMPARE A NATIVE TO LEARNERS
@@mfreak1126 But it's not relevant then because of different circumstances. Should only compare people that learned under similar circumstances.
Does it truly mattter which foreigner "speaks the best"? The most important thing is that the Japanese spoken is comprehenable and understood well by most natives. Most foreigners will always have an accent to some degree and not be 100% native but that's kind of the thing...they're not native. Hell, all these dudes are white too, so even if their Japanese is 100% like the rest, they still will stand out to someone who will have any sort of gripe with them due to them being 外国人.
Maybe is more so to do with the fact that they are all teaching Japanese and we simply are ranking them based on their ability as educators but i don't know. This only occurs in Japanese I've noticed that this level of analyzing is placed this much on those studying it. You never see this "magnifying glass" in most other languages.
But as far as money is concerned, go with Dogen. You can learn more focused pitch at a cheaper price or just learn it for free down the road.
“Tagaki san is better than Nagatoro.” Legend you won yourself a sub.
Other foreigner friends from Malaysia, China that I had met speaks very good Japanese too.. although they are Asian but still not Japanese too .. perhaps Yuta San can consider doing some video about Malaysian or Chinese living in Japan too :) thank you
Yeah, at least he speaks fluent english unlike John Daub, he's been living in Japan for 25 years and he still speaks Japanese like a typical foreigner. Is John Daub that lazy?
I believe Dogen has mentioned he writes (or used to?) scripts for his videos, and that his pronunciation is better in videos than in real life (feel free to fact check me. I believe I heard him say that in a video 2 years ago?) Still very impressive nonetheless. I grew up learning English and have been in the States for 10 years, and I still write more eloquently than I speak.
I feel like Dogen’s way of thinking is very conceptual, so his words tend to be abstract in some sense. What he speaks in his sketches can convey a certain awkwardness, which he turns into humor. Doing this in Japanese is a difficult task because you’re putting together words that have never been spoken by a native Japanese. Even if it’s grammatically correct, it’s hard to tell if it’s “fluent” or not.
I have been learning Japanese for 4-5 years but my speaking is still very basic (JLPT4). Listening is what I think is the most proficient. English is my second language, while Japanese, Mandarin and Spanish are my third to fifth ones.
It’s very hard these days to make only one thing to the perfection. Since I live in Japan, my Japanese has been judged by the Japanese people whose Japanese is their first language. Also, I don’t have any other international people to practice my Japanese with. Japanese is a very niche language which gives me a unique learning experience than English, Mandarin and Spanish which are quite mass.
Not really sure if I‘m in a position to say this as a non-native speaker but listening to Dogen leaves me with next to zero 違和感 whatsoever while Matt, despite being very fluent and pretty much expressing himself the way a native would, still clearly sounds like a foreigner to me
“Private research in his room” 🤣😂
I haven't watched this video, but I'm expecting a banger plug for Learn Japanese with Yuta.
"Why Takagi-san is better than Nagatoro-san"
Sorry, Yuta, but my loyalty prevents me from watching any more after that atrocious statement
Yuta teaching us how to be a real Japanese speaking chad
Rumor has it that Matt has been up to some pretty shady stuff lately and you can easily find forums of people discussing it. If the rumors are indeed true, then personally, I don't care how good someone's language skills are or anything, I would not want to associate with someone like that and surely many people would feel the same if someone they knew was up to shady schemes
It’s true dogen does try hard but he makes a strong effort to “ SOUND “ Japanese
4:36 Hanekawa Tsubasa moment
It's not uncommon, indeed it is to be expected that, fluent non-native language speakers will be better at the language than native speakers.
This is because nearly all native speakers pick up the language naturally and learn only what they need to.
They can use (or at least intuitively understand) all the tenses without knowing their name, for example.
Conversely, non-native fluent speakers were likely tested and otherwise required to deliberately learn things that native speakers may not even be aware they understand.
You are right; it may not be intuitive to them what the rules are, but because they know the rules, they can apply it more consistently and thus can have better grammar/syntax. I speak English practically natively but only relatively recently learned some of the proper grammar rules (for that section on the SAT) that I have previously been unaware of
I like how this dude has made an active effort to be physically expressive like westerners when talking 😂
Would absolutely love to see you compare khatzumoto too
I believe Animeman actually have 漢字検定3級 or some sort which makes him better Kanji master than I am. And I am native Japanese who have been living outside of Japan for last 15 years, nowadays I have problem reading/writing kanji even some elementary school level kanji...
Yuta wants to get noticed so hard LOL
Good work
くだらない評価やっちゃったね…
I've commented many times that Matt's English is scary good. In the foreign language community everyone thinks of "native" as this gold standard and all native speakers speak the same or something but it's not true. The language level of native speakers varies immensely.
This is why the closest one can get to that is "sounding like a local" because locals from two different areas can be natives of the same language but speak somewhat differently (different slang, accent, etc.) but as long as there's mutual understanding, who cares? That's all that matters in my opinion.
Matt speaks like Sam Harris.
😲 interesting all of them acquired the language differently.
Yuta had me rewind a lot because I was laughing at the anime jokes
I see, Yuta is a man of culture as well. The anime opinions I agree, especially with Takagi san.
Matt and Dogen aren't as fluent as people think they are. There's a lot of European (especially Russian) and Chinese female youtubers whose Japanese is way better than than theirs, but they always make videos in Japanese for the Japanese audience. Many people simply don't know their existence. I'm Japanese, so believe me. Matt and Dogen aren't that fluent.
Definitely, for example "dasha だーしゃ" sounds way better than them in my opinion (but I'm not a native speaker so I can't really tell if that's correct)
I think both Matt and Dogen are most definitely fluent in the usual sense of the world but your point is well taken. They are not native-level, which has a much higher bar than most people think, and they are far from the best non-native Japanese speakers on YT. However, regarding Matt one area where he might be better than the average Japanese is the size of his passive vocabulary which comes from his prolific reading and looking up every new word he comes across.
@@lukidjano damn you’re right, just checked her out!
Yeah, at least he speaks fluent english unlike John Daub, he's been living in Japan for 25 years and he still speaks Japanese like a typical foreigner. Is John Daub that lazy?
You can't really compare a chinese who learned japanese to english speakers. Being a native english speaker and learn japanese is extremely difficult.
anime references in this video are pure gold change my mind
I mean Joey is Japanese even though he is from Australia...and one of his parents is half white.
Probably Joey because he said he watched Japanese Variety TV in Australia as a child so growing up he was definitely exposed to Japanese TV. But he hides how good his formal Japanese is.
Dogen seems like the easy choice because most foreigners and westerners will think he speaks the best Formal Japanese. This makes more people who don't speak Japanese think he is the better choice because his Japanese (even if it is scriped) sounds more formal/appropriate/cultural than the other two. Again, Joey seems to hide how good he really is. Joey uses casual speaking Japanese too much so who knows how good his Keigo (formal) speech really is? Personally I would say Dogen because I don't want to come off as rude for speaking too much casual Japanese.
Joey was teaching japanese to native japanese businessmen, that alone makes him the winner
Nah
Joey taught them some facts about kanji that they didn't know, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Joey knows more about kanji than them. I'm Japanese, but I know the English word brachioradialis, which a lot of native English speakers probably don't know. Does that automatically mean that I know more English words than them and that my overall English skills are also better? The answer is no.
@@mfreak1126 the word ur looking for is polyglot interpreter; for linguist, translator, or docent with minimum ( bare minimum to hold the occupancy of docent) of master degree, they would know since theyre sensei in juku/les/cram school or university, btw the term is rikusho and by browsing i already know the scientific blend/portmanteau word for bone, butterfly, etc. with all the cons of docent the mates here is still averagely not the best and yes idk why we cant accelerate semester using more subjects per semester taken. PSM etymology is my subject so I'm a japanese studies official named literature, linguist hobbyist or helluo librorum, i know ninjal and have a project to translate it together as a team. any fast learner have 2 choices going by information literacy sensei, we could excel and take master scholarship overseas to japan or work here as the 2nd option. and yes the jikoshoukai is hard on interview with native already knew that, sincerely a uni student. oh iknow the seasonal greetings and how asking of summer heat is about the person health, theres also some greetings salutation and valedictions about seasons recorded since the kiki( nihon shoki, etc forgor the 2nd one). wagahai wa neko de aru. itll never ends thats it for now.
@@mfreak1126 that is your connecting tendon or ligament in your arm lol. brachioradials is not English it is a loan word from either Latin or greek,
@@mfreak1126 knowing one word and having the skills and credentials to teach business men is alot diffrent yes?
I believe Joey's Japanese is better than both Matt's and Dogen's And that's because of the following three reasons:
1- Joey is literally a native Japanese person. He's been exposed to the language ever since he was little. He also said on one of the TT episodes that he used to watch anime and read manga in Japanese from when he was little, not to mention him speaking and practising with his mom.
2- Joey's Motivation for learning Japanese was bigger than the other two.
He made a video explaining that like his motivation for learning Japanese was because he didn't want Japanese people to think that he's more a foreigner than he is Japanese.
3- Dogen himself stated in the video he made reacting to his Japanese that Joey's Japanese is better than his.
*Mic drop* 🎤
Reason 3 is the only proper one
"Culturally sophisticated" is an interesting way to describe Redo of Healer.
I lived in Japan when I was a kid. I agree with your assessment. Dogen keeps showing up on my RUclips feed. His Japanese is not natural at all. That said, you just need to be understood. Regardless of accent, if you can be understood and people can understand you, it’s fine. I have to speak French every day in my job, and I don’t ever worry that I have an American accent.
I believe Dogen puts more effort into annunciation so that people can learn and so it doesn’t sound as effortless but that’s kind of the point
4:36 sneaky Hanekawa
No cap. That clip with Matt is from a supermarket that is near me. I had to do a double take since I was like wtf I've been here. FYI its an Uwajimaya in Oregon.
That's a nice surprise, didn't think Yuta would bring up Ueno san as an anime reference.
@4:36 This reminds me of a quote from Hanekawa from Monogatari.
"I don't know everything, I just know what I know". lol
from "hen... culturally sophisticated author" LOL
I've watched Ueno-san, therefore Yuta thinks I have great taste.
This is a million times better than a 日本語上手.
In the US, it's common to hear foreigners who speak "better English" than some native speakers. For some people, language skills in their native language don't matter that much. They understand enough to get by in their daily life and don't really care about the stuff they don't understand. Foreign learners will often spend much more time trying to master a language than the native speakers do as for them it's just something they don't think about much.
I grew up in the Southern US were people speak with thick accents and lots of local slang. Even though they are "native speakers" their grammar, accent, and vocabulary is nowhere close to standard American English. It's like that in places like the UK as well with really thick accents.
It's worth remembering that what many people think of as "native" level is the level of a well educated person. There are lots of people who did not care much about education who speak with much less skill.
やはりね、この人たちより僕はまだまだです。😑
1:24 4:06 ok, now, that's good taste
4:08 sheeeeesh my man speakng the facts
Y que tal está su español, Don Yuta? Ha seguido practicando?
Good comparison video.
誰が一番自然かというと、ジョイだとは過言でもないが、動力だけで凄まじいレベル迄に至ったのはマットさんだね。因に僕の母国語はロシア語とドイツ語で英語でもない。
It is absolutely irrelevant to judge other people’s language knowledge and pronunciation. This video only shows that every guy you talk about deserves more attention than you yourself. Personally, I love Dogen channel more and think that he inspires me to go on with Japanese learning more, as he is humorous and sincere.
So who speaks Japanese better in the end?
I really look up to anyone who can speak Japanese like a native speaker. I have no idea how good I actually am but probably not as natural as these people. Perhaps one day!