The signature moment was Brown’s game-tying three at the end of regulation in the first game of the Eastern Conference Finals. That play embodied Boston’s “whatever it takes” motto.
@@ortsacerdi1423He’s always had it in him - he sank a game-winning buzzer-beater against Utah in his sophomore season. The Celtics just don’t seem to draw any plays for him, I imagine he’s the second option on any ATO/clutch moment plays they come up with. Bro absolutely leveled up this year but he hardly ever sees an opponent’s best defender on him. Maybe all that will change going forward, who knows.
We kept ALL the receipts for the Luka/Kyrie stuff. I said in comments on numerous videos how insane it was people were saying that and picking the Mavs to roll the Celtics. Not even in a competitive series. Absolutely ridiculous. WHAT THEY GONNA SAY NOW?!
I had to stop myself from commenting after a while. I thought I was missing something about the mavs or something, it was pretty insane how the media pushed the Luka/Kyrie narratives. They legit were saying Kyrie was the 2nd best player in the series with every single stat saying he’s not
They all do it. Before the Finals, a lot of the self proclaimed experts were picking Dallas in five. When Boston went up 3-0, they quickly changed their “predictions” to Celtics in six. When Boston completed the gentleman’s sweep, they were all patting themselves on the back for only being off by one. These people get paid millions of dollars to never be right about anything. Must be nice.
I think a big part of the feeling of this championship was the media narrative. All season we were told the celtics were the best and anything less than winning it all was unacceptable. And then they won and it felt more relieving than like a great accomplishment because of this narrative
Well, they had 3 legit cracks at a ring prior to this year and didn't come through. They finally proved that they can. The Celtics deserve every bit of credit
We also, because we obsessed constantly about KP's injury history (which was barely worse than Smart's), didn't seem to realize that we got RID OF THREE injury-prone players to get a guy who still managed to play about 60 games, and get yet another starter who's indestructible.
If there's an aspect to Tatum's improvement, I think it's his ability to read the moments in the game - when will he demand the ball, what little thing he needs to do to help his team, when will he step aside and let another teammate cook. I also agree he needs to work on his midrange and post game, so he can manufacture points when the team really needs offense. Winning this year should also build his confidence. Relieving the pressure to win should help fix his shooting inconsistency in this postseason. The postmortem on the Celtics championship just reveals how fans are notoriously fickle - it's not like circumstances would always align when the best of both conferences will make it to the final round, and then to have a colossal battle royale. Life isn't a sports movie. Yes, we needed a Jimmy Butler so the Celtics can finally beat them decisively. Yes, we needed a Mitchell and a Haliburton because their teams couldn't do as well without them. Yes, we needed the defending champs to be there for the title defense. But those things didn't happen. Denver took the hard route by losing the first two games at home, got themselves back, and then choked away a Game 7 they already had in hand. Minnesota never figured out how to stop Dallas. And Dallas? A team that only got together at the trade deadline. Not a championship for the ages, but a championship still worth savoring.
Half of Jaylens old turn overs were him jumping in the air with nowhere to go and him throwing it away, he barely did that this year. Just one simple adjustment, plus he wasn’t able to be a playmaker much previously. His experience has helped his decision making
He played all bad defense teams there is no difference of style of play from team or him since they lost gsw this is not a back to back team that said Tatum will be better next year lol😂
Tatum’s ability to drive and handle the basketball are amazing. For whatever reason since the finals against the Warriors he began missing more close to the basket shots on well defended drives than he has proven he is capable of doing. If he focuses on developing his finishing on drives and uses the backboard more effectively, Tatum will be unstoppable.
@@juliusrickles 38% fg, he shot a very low 29% from 3 which when combined with his 51% 2point fg lowers it to 38%. But a 3 point make is worth 1 and a half field goals so the only thing that should be looked at is effective field goal % which accounts for the 3 pointer being worth more. Tatum shot 48% effective fg
The media and casual fans love drama. Teams that produce drama attract the attention of casual fans and generate praise from the media. Teams that don't get ignored even if they are great. The Patriots were non stop drama. So, they generated all kinds of interest. The Kobe Lakers and Steph Curry Warriors had all kinds of drama. In contrast, the Chiefs don't produce any drama. They will never make a documentary about the Chiefs dynasty like they did about the Jordan Bulls or Patriots' dynasties because there just isn't any drama to make such a documentary interesting. The Celtics are like the Chiefs. They get along, they are professional, and there just isn't any drama around them. And that makes casual fans think they are boring.
Difference is last year we got to witness Jokic becoming the best player in the world. You can’t say that level of individual greatness happened this year.
@@mattpassos5689 you’re right about that. You have to have the resume and playoff run to be the best player in the world. Thats’s why last year’s playoffs IMO was more entertaining and memorable. A player like Jokic with the accolades and the incredible playoff run doesn’t happen often.
JT played a lot of facilitator role in the Finals and I think that with Joe as coach, JT could average 8 dimes a game in a season. He could be a 28/8/10 guy.
New generations seem to focus on player rather than team. Exhausting GOAT conversations, which take away from the game. People didn't talk GOAT years ago. In the 80s, it was Lakers vs Celtics, now it's Magic vs Bird. Great Players like Kareem and McHale are diminished.
It’s not Bostons fault they had an extremely easy path. Just beat who they put in front of you, nobody will remember the details in a few years anyway 🤷♀️
The hardcore fans definitely remember that stuff but Boston was legitimately good. What's kind of poetic is Tatum isn't quite as good as his resume suggests and Boston isn't quite as good as their resume suggests. But I will be glad when the afterglow phase is done because the "Boston is an all-time great team" stuff is so ridiculous. Good team, good title. Definitely not on the level of the 96 Bulls and 17 Warriors
@@VincenzoGCosta I meant definitely but it autocorrected. But yeah probably. Lonzo + Caruso was only half a season but that was insane ... Smart + White were just as good but more in 21-22 not 22-23 ... Beverley and PG in 19-20 ... Smart and Avery Bradley but AB wasn't as good as them and Smart was young ... Jimmy Butler + Kirk Hinrich is underrated ... Young Chris Paul and James Posey in 08-09 but Posey came off the bench ... Young Wade didn't play with another great defensive guard; more SF ... Fisher and Kobe in the early 2000s but I don't think they were at that level ... Jason Kidd and Kerry Kittles were way better than they got credit for. Or Kittles was. Kidd is regarded as one of the best defensive guards in league history ... Mike Conley (2nd team All-Defense) and Tony Allen (5th in DPOY; 1st team) in 12-13 is probably better honestly but not as versatile. Memphis Tony Allen was a monster and small guards weren't as much of a liability then. And because there wasn't as much switching someone like Allen could be way more impactful. Probably the best on ball defender in NBA history. Him or peak Rodman. Simmons and Thybulle in 20-21 is up there and both were technically voted All-Defense as guards. That's the best defensive backcourt of this century honestly. But just guard sized guards, Holiday - White, because of the versatility, I think you give them the edge over Allen/Conley
Celtics are 24-6 against the so call "stronger Western conference teams "😅 If the NBA finals are included, is 28-7.😂😂😂 I'm not even a Baston Celtics fan. But I love sports. And I can see facts. ESPN & Fox sport. They analyse their feelings about teams. But if you breakdown the teams, you'll see Celtics are no match to the Mavericks!!!
The biggest leap JB had this season was the proficiency in his left hand. JB dribbled and finished with his left hand at a very high level this season!
Brown was dominant early in the series, he was the biggest reason the C’s took control of the series. The series was never in doubt in large part because of how dominant Brown was early on. He’s absolutely the MVP. Tatum is a slightly better player, but Brown was better in this series. It’s not a difficult concept to wrap your head around, unless you’re a Celtics fan
Not really. You somehow dismissed KP and Jrue Holiday, and Derek White. Naaah, JB gave his best to a team effort and was NOT the reason the Celtics were dominant. Absolutely NOT. It was 7-8 players contributing a superb team play.
Bill, everyone already knew what the Cs were trying to do😂 they didn’t give away any grand secrets by saying they want everyone to be a shooting threat and a switchable defender lol
I would say that ESPN had been selling the narrative of Who is the better player or the real Celtic MVP and by delaying the vote they really can establish or sustain the question of Who really is the better player...? Now, who is really happy with the outcome: Adam Silver and the Boston top brass given that the highest paid player had been left out of the All NBA Team (which saved the Celtics millions of dollars) and now there is no excuse for not making JB a marketable face.
Copying this sounds easy but its really not. Biston has two giant forwards who outkicked their coverage from a development standpoint. Like hit 90-95% of their potential. Thry have two all defense guards who make off the dribble threes, playmake, can play in the dunker, offensive rebound and can guard 4's snd 5's, 7'3" center who shoots 28 foot threes and another center who can switch onto guards This is no more replicable than the Kobe Shaq Lakers or Showtime Lakers or 04 or 89 Pistons or the Warriors Teams have been trying to get two way players for over a decade. Its just really f**king hard. Look at the Clippers with PG and Kawhi
The confusion comes from many people not wanting the Celtics to win and struggling to accept the reality that they’re a great team. They don’t know how to feel.
The take that Tatums response felt pre mediated is highest level of hater. What you want him to come out and act like he hasn't been working towards this his whole life?
@VintageVoid3 Tatum protects the rim where brown doesn't and every team puts their best defender on Tatum. Don't listen to me listen to the nba coaches.
There is definitely one last level Tatum can reach. Bill is right on the money; he needs to develop that in between shot from about 6 to 12 feet. He tried to floater in 2023 but abandoned it halfway through the season. That and change of pace on drives. Sometimes he gets to willing to put his head down and go full speed to the rim and smoke layups. This off-season he should work on euro steps and deceleration at the rim.
As a fanatical supporter of Celtics for 5 decades (similar to Bill) and a former resident of Massachusetts for 30 years, I can assure you that we kept the receipts. By the way, the reason Doncic and Irving didn’t have a good series was due to the Celtics phenomenal defense. Just saying. Unfortunately I was unable to get off work to attend the parade today, however my niece (Harvard University student and a LA Fakers fan) was streaming it live for me on my phone while I was also watching it on my laptop. The fraud pundits first said the Celtics had an easy run and picked Mavs in 5, and when that didn’t work out they switched to: “well they are not the Best Ever”. What a load of nonsense. ☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️ 💚💚💚💚💚💚 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀 Brad, Wyc (my fellow Worcesterite) and Pags are already working on Banner #19.
If Lebron didn't have holes in his game, then how did he develop a post game? How did he become a good 3pt shooter, if he didn't have holes in his game? They are talking about from a development standpoint. Lebron was dominant, but he was best at just taking it to the hoop. He added more to his game, whereas Tatums is more well rounded, so it's harder to see lots of growth.
NOT a finished product! ( Tatum ). Mark my words - next season with a title and the contract under his belt, Tatum is gonna fine tune his game like Brown did this season and will be his best one yet.. Like Bill says, there's the mid range part of the game, there's finishing a little stronger at the rim ( he's gotten stronger last two seasons and there's a little more to come ) and most of all there's another level of maturity and basketball IQ - when to take over, when to share the load, shot selection defending. Tatum is the most versatile star forward this side of LeBron he's got the ingredients. When he gets the mix right ( and it keeps getting better ) then you'll see his true ceiling. Gonna be anazing
Boston has proven that they can handle Giannis and Embiid (with Al), yet nobody to take on Joker. That's the next frontier for this team, have a big big that can take on this type of Center.
The last 10 years, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 were the full force finals. 2015 no kyrie and love. 2016 draymond suspension. 2017-2018 affected by 2016 draymond suspension. 2019 no kd and klay. 2020 covid bubble.
Something the media hasn't looked more into, Why did the C's, of all places, decided to go to Miami to celebrate the day after winning? Here Jimmy! You beat us twice, yet we got the Larry O! How you like me now?!!!!! In your face.
Geez, did these guys actually watch the games? Did they see the iconic Jaylen Brown dunks? I had to stop listening to this because they were Debbie downers on how beautiful it was to watch how dominant the Cs were! 💚☘️
It doesn't matter what Brown does, he will never get the respect he deserves. While he has been playing for championships in the past 5 to 6 years, he has had some very good playoff games and a few bad ones, while some of the top NBA players where in Cancun watching Brown play; however, he always seems to be judged in a negative tone. Example, I think in 2022 after the NBA final the ringer ranked him as the 12th best player, yet this year that he has won a championship and was the MVP of the playoffs, they rank him now the 15th Best player....how can someone that upped his game dramatically, is now being ranked worse than before.
The league got better. Although he was also never that good before. He actually is now. His left hand is a million percent better as a ball handler and finisher just vs last year. His defense last year was almost bad and he was much more focused this year. And offensively he cut out a lot of crap. Especially in the playoffs. He doesn't waste possessions, he didn't ball stop, you didn't have the isolations to nowhere. The passing is much better. But he also had to do it in the playoffs because in the regular season he was still a league average efficiency volume scorer. If respect means saying he's a top 5 player or he's better than Tatum or he should win MVP. Well he's none of that so that's not ever happening. But this podcast is literally him getting that respect and acknowledgement and you're still complaining. Lol
You just have never watch him, his only issue has been how he has been marketed, which in the past has been zero. How can he not be good if in the past 4 or 5 years, he has been averaging 25pts a game as supposedly as a second option, in the NBA past, only 3 other players have done that. In the past, Jaylen could have 35 pts and Tatum 36pts in a game, and nothing was ever mentioned about Brown...the Talk was all about Tatum.....Tatum's numbers have always been better just because he gets to shoot more.....
@@francisco2525 lol. I've watched him _a lot_ I just understand what I'm watching. Putting up numbers doesn't mean shit. Especially scoring in this era of the NBA. He has a negative career on/off. Volume scoring on a good team just isn't very valuable because good teams are usually more efficient than league average. That's how you can score 25 per game and not be good. Because there is a lot more to basketball than scoring at the same rate as the average player. Tatum has been a positive efficiency scorer and elite defender for three years. And has had a significant playmaking advantage over Brown with a lower turnover rate. He gets more opportunities because he's _better_ not because *THREE* different coaches all conspired against Jaylen. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? As far as marketability, there is no grand conspiracy there either. It's just whether people, usually kids, like your game. Steph is marketable. LeBron. KD. Kyrie. Kobe. Jaylen doesn't have a pretty, eye catching game and he doesn't have a big personality. (Neither does Tatum for that matter)
11:40. Why did those two laugh at the comparison to the 15 Warriors? The Celtics are absolutely loaded with all two-way players versus many of those were just one-way players. We would give them a run for their money for sure. I think Cs win in 7.
'15 Warriors beat the Cavs with only Lebron. Love was out, and Kyrie was out. I don't rate that chip too much, especially since they lost a 3-1 comeback the next year, and then won two chips after signing Durant. The '22 chip is their absolute best one.
American sports leans a lot on the individuals instead of the team. It’s more about WWE style story arcs… the Celtics dominated as a team so it’s no fun for the media
I don't get the Kyrie hate lool his 33 years old and has a better stat line then JB in his prime. 25\5\5 on 50\40\90 vs 23\5\3 on 50\35\70. Playoff : 22\5\4 on 47\40\85 vs 23\2\6 on 52\33\66. JB's Playoff run was average at best - the real MVP is the celtics head office ( D white , Kripsta , Jru ) put all the expectation for JT and JB to elevate their game because they knew those two cant bring home a championship.
I find it hard to believe how people are viewing Tatum as a finished product 😂 he’s gotten better every year, he’s gonna improve at even more this summer (although last team USA offseason he admitted it kept him from being able to work on his game as much). Do you think Shai is a finished product? No, nobody does. Yet shai is only 5 months younger than Tatum 😂 why do people act like playoff games played is how you improve and once you hit 100 it’s just over, absolutely not lmao Lebron didn’t stop improving until he got to LA in his mid 30s. At minimum his shooting gets more consistent over the years, the passing becomes even more effective and less turnover prone, tighter handles, and he gets a bit stronger. But Tatum has identified weaknesses in his game every offseason and improved at them. Rebounding, passing, strength, shooting, he’s worked on all of this stuff and will continue to. I think over the next 3-4 years Tatum could add some if not all of these skills: dominant post game (with his size and skill set, he could really lean into the bully ball and dare teams to help off of his shooters to defend his post ups), the passing hits next level (I’m talking 7+ assists per game to the point where hes a premier playmaker), rim protection and interior defense take another leap (being able to defend the interior as a small ball 5, and defend switches in the low post), better shot diet (this one’s easy, half the time he wants to take a side step three just go get a middie instead), I think if he can add just a few of these, he could easily get an mvp. I think if he wins more chips, he’s gonna be guaranteed an mvp because the league seems to love giving out pity MVPs (Embiid lmao)
It's like they were saying about Brown, he just got better at a lot of little things this year. Well, so can Tatum. And that can make a big difference.
Bill totally nailing the tennis analogy but whiffing on comparison. Djokovic is incredible but kinda loathed/accepted and Federer is universally beloved.
It's furthering the steady erosion of team importance in general. Starting over a decade ago, I realized how many young people don't follow teams at all--they follow PLAYERS, and happen to cheer for whatever team that guy plays for (so, yes, if they're LeBron fans, they've switched teams four times). It started back when we convinced ourselves that MJ won championships with tiny assists from Scottie, Grant/Rodman plus the overrated "genius" of their coach, and 9 dead bodies along for the ride. We encourage and emphasize this myth in almost everything we do, talk about, celebrate etc--societally, culturally, etc. We throw some bromides at "teamwork" but we don't really BELIEVE it We're a culture obsessed with individuality (even war movies have one dude winning battles).Look how every game is marketed. For a long time, it has been "Watch Luka (and the Mavs), versus Tatum (and the Cs)." All about stars, teams minimized at every turn. Likewise, we believe "best player wins championships," (which I always thought was overrated/stupid. LeBron was the best player for twelve years. He won 4 times). Thankfully, Brad Stevens called BS on it too. He looked hard, figured out the limits financially, and (correctly) deduced that a team with ALL good players (and no discernible weaknesses) is better than the "best player."
Well talking heads 24/7 well make that happen bill. That’s why tv sports shows suck. They have to show up and talk about something even when theirs nothing to talk about. Podcast are where it’s at when you can do it when you want and when it’s needed
@ajbianchi85 JB was defending Luka the most he was by far the best player and made better decisions than Tatum who through the first three games shoot as bad as anyone in the finals again and turned ball over like crazy again..
Bill loves to complain about conversations that he's dying to have 🤣
I never related to someone so much
Game of Zones called it when they had the Duncan Spurs as "the white walkers" and then they passed that onto the Tatum Celtics.
Ergo: An objectively very good team that the public doesn’t find compelling?
@@fortynights1513exactly. And Tatum is kinda Tim Duncan like in how he’s very good but nobody is excited by him.
The signature moment was Brown’s game-tying three at the end of regulation in the first game of the Eastern Conference Finals. That play embodied Boston’s “whatever it takes” motto.
Yes that shot unlock the potential of Brown to be the closer
@@ortsacerdi1423He’s always had it in him - he sank a game-winning buzzer-beater against Utah in his sophomore season. The Celtics just don’t seem to draw any plays for him, I imagine he’s the second option on any ATO/clutch moment plays they come up with. Bro absolutely leveled up this year but he hardly ever sees an opponent’s best defender on him. Maybe all that will change going forward, who knows.
Whatever it takes (to beat the Indiana pacers)
@@misinfluence Whatever it takes (to win the 2024 NBA championship).
"Whatever it takes" means never Tatum?
We kept ALL the receipts for the Luka/Kyrie stuff. I said in comments on numerous videos how insane it was people were saying that and picking the Mavs to roll the Celtics. Not even in a competitive series. Absolutely ridiculous. WHAT THEY GONNA SAY NOW?!
They just pretend they never said it.
I had to stop myself from commenting after a while. I thought I was missing something about the mavs or something, it was pretty insane how the media pushed the Luka/Kyrie narratives. They legit were saying Kyrie was the 2nd best player in the series with every single stat saying he’s not
I am a lifelong Mavs fan and I never in a million years thought this was a good matchup for Dallas. They haven't had a close game vs Boston in years.
They are onto the next grift. Nick wright is on to his next hair transplant.
They all do it. Before the Finals, a lot of the self proclaimed experts were picking Dallas in five. When Boston went up 3-0, they quickly changed their “predictions” to Celtics in six. When Boston completed the gentleman’s sweep, they were all patting themselves on the back for only being off by one. These people get paid millions of dollars to never be right about anything. Must be nice.
I think a big part of the feeling of this championship was the media narrative. All season we were told the celtics were the best and anything less than winning it all was unacceptable. And then they won and it felt more relieving than like a great accomplishment because of this narrative
Well, they had 3 legit cracks at a ring prior to this year and didn't come through.
They finally proved that they can. The Celtics deserve every bit of credit
dude is wearing green shirt over green undershirt and is drinking green la croix lmao
We'll let Bill enjoy his first moment in 16 years. Have sympathy. The Lakers won 3 chips in that time.
if thats green for you better go to the doctor and check your eyes^^
@@denigsterit is the safari green. looks safari kind of shirt too.
@@denigster wait what color do you think it is?
@@denigsterdefinitely green... maybe you need your eyes checked...
**Simmons says something a little too Simmons-y**
**Rob and Chris look at each other to see who’s going to tell Bill he’s a lil crazy**
Russillo is better at calling BS on BS
Not even a celtics fan, but this entire year ive seen comments calling simmons a delusional celtics fan and yet he was right the entire time….
We also, because we obsessed constantly about KP's injury history (which was barely worse than Smart's), didn't seem to realize that we got RID OF THREE injury-prone players to get a guy who still managed to play about 60 games, and get yet another starter who's indestructible.
I got to appreciate Jrue Holiday a lot more when he's on my own team.
If there's an aspect to Tatum's improvement, I think it's his ability to read the moments in the game - when will he demand the ball, what little thing he needs to do to help his team, when will he step aside and let another teammate cook. I also agree he needs to work on his midrange and post game, so he can manufacture points when the team really needs offense. Winning this year should also build his confidence. Relieving the pressure to win should help fix his shooting inconsistency in this postseason.
The postmortem on the Celtics championship just reveals how fans are notoriously fickle - it's not like circumstances would always align when the best of both conferences will make it to the final round, and then to have a colossal battle royale. Life isn't a sports movie. Yes, we needed a Jimmy Butler so the Celtics can finally beat them decisively. Yes, we needed a Mitchell and a Haliburton because their teams couldn't do as well without them. Yes, we needed the defending champs to be there for the title defense. But those things didn't happen. Denver took the hard route by losing the first two games at home, got themselves back, and then choked away a Game 7 they already had in hand. Minnesota never figured out how to stop Dallas. And Dallas? A team that only got together at the trade deadline. Not a championship for the ages, but a championship still worth savoring.
Half of Jaylens old turn overs were him jumping in the air with nowhere to go and him throwing it away, he barely did that this year. Just one simple adjustment, plus he wasn’t able to be a playmaker much previously. His experience has helped his decision making
He played all bad defense teams there is no difference of style of play from team or him since they lost gsw this is not a back to back team that said Tatum will be better next year lol😂
Tatum’s ability to drive and handle the basketball are amazing. For whatever reason since the finals against the Warriors he began missing more close to the basket shots on well defended drives than he has proven he is capable of doing. If he focuses on developing his finishing on drives and uses the backboard more effectively, Tatum will be unstoppable.
He shot 38% from the field the entire post season and he has shooters all around him.
Yea he knows how to put his head down , he really needs to abuse that advantage. Yet he settles for jumpers even over smaller players
@@juliusrickles look at 2 point fg% and effective fg% and compare his efg% in the playoffs to Kobe , Kobe shot a low percentage too in the playoffs.
@@juliusrickles 38% fg, he shot a very low 29% from 3 which when combined with his 51% 2point fg lowers it to
38%. But a 3 point make is worth 1 and a half field goals so the only thing that should be looked at is effective field goal % which accounts for the 3 pointer being worth more. Tatum shot 48% effective fg
@robertdavis4192 why are we paying all the shooters around him if he is putting up 22 shots and only making 6?
The media and casual fans love drama. Teams that produce drama attract the attention of casual fans and generate praise from the media. Teams that don't get ignored even if they are great. The Patriots were non stop drama. So, they generated all kinds of interest. The Kobe Lakers and Steph Curry Warriors had all kinds of drama. In contrast, the Chiefs don't produce any drama. They will never make a documentary about the Chiefs dynasty like they did about the Jordan Bulls or Patriots' dynasties because there just isn't any drama to make such a documentary interesting. The Celtics are like the Chiefs. They get along, they are professional, and there just isn't any drama around them. And that makes casual fans think they are boring.
This year's Finals were a lot like last year. Denver beating Miami seemed pretty easy.
Difference is last year we got to witness Jokic becoming the best player in the world. You can’t say that level of individual greatness happened this year.
@@LL-nk8ypeven if Tatum averaged 30 on good efficiency he wouldn't be regarded as the best in the world so what are you disappointed by?
@@mattpassos5689 you’re right about that. You have to have the resume and playoff run to be the best player in the world. Thats’s why last year’s playoffs IMO was more entertaining and memorable. A player like Jokic with the accolades and the incredible playoff run doesn’t happen often.
Coach Joe been going on shows doing interviews...Bill, you should invite him :)
That would be epic
JT played a lot of facilitator role in the Finals and I think that with Joe as coach, JT could average 8 dimes a game in a season. He could be a 28/8/10 guy.
These are MVP stats. Something like 25-8-10 seems more realistic and on a championship team can still be considered MVP level. Fingers crossed.
28 7/7
@@EMTE-l9p 23 - 8 - 8 with this team. He could be a 27 - 8 - 7 guy on a less stacked team
New generations seem to focus on player rather than team. Exhausting GOAT conversations, which take away from the game. People didn't talk GOAT years ago. In the 80s, it was Lakers vs Celtics, now it's Magic vs Bird. Great Players like Kareem and McHale are diminished.
It’s not Bostons fault they had an extremely easy path. Just beat who they put in front of you, nobody will remember the details in a few years anyway 🤷♀️
facts
The hardcore fans definitely remember that stuff but Boston was legitimately good.
What's kind of poetic is Tatum isn't quite as good as his resume suggests and Boston isn't quite as good as their resume suggests.
But I will be glad when the afterglow phase is done because the "Boston is an all-time great team" stuff is so ridiculous. Good team, good title. Definitely not on the level of the 96 Bulls and 17 Warriors
@@michaelahurtmaybe the best defensive backcourt 9
of the last 20 years.
@@VincenzoGCosta I meant definitely but it autocorrected. But yeah probably.
Lonzo + Caruso was only half a season but that was insane ... Smart + White were just as good but more in 21-22 not 22-23 ... Beverley and PG in 19-20 ... Smart and Avery Bradley but AB wasn't as good as them and Smart was young ... Jimmy Butler + Kirk Hinrich is underrated ... Young Chris Paul and James Posey in 08-09 but Posey came off the bench ... Young Wade didn't play with another great defensive guard; more SF ... Fisher and Kobe in the early 2000s but I don't think they were at that level ... Jason Kidd and Kerry Kittles were way better than they got credit for. Or Kittles was. Kidd is regarded as one of the best defensive guards in league history ... Mike Conley (2nd team All-Defense) and Tony Allen (5th in DPOY; 1st team) in 12-13 is probably better honestly but not as versatile. Memphis Tony Allen was a monster and small guards weren't as much of a liability then. And because there wasn't as much switching someone like Allen could be way more impactful. Probably the best on ball defender in NBA history. Him or peak Rodman.
Simmons and Thybulle in 20-21 is up there and both were technically voted All-Defense as guards. That's the best defensive backcourt of this century honestly.
But just guard sized guards, Holiday - White, because of the versatility, I think you give them the edge over Allen/Conley
Celtics are 24-6 against the so call "stronger Western conference teams "😅
If the NBA finals are included, is 28-7.😂😂😂
I'm not even a Baston Celtics fan. But I love sports. And I can see facts.
ESPN & Fox sport. They analyse their feelings about teams. But if you breakdown the teams, you'll see Celtics are no match to the Mavericks!!!
had this on normal speed for a min sounds like Bill was talking backwards
The biggest leap JB had this season was the proficiency in his left hand. JB dribbled and finished with his left hand at a very high level this season!
Amused at the idea that Jaylen Brown doesn’t have charisma. The smartest, most interesting player in any sport.
Most people enjoy corny and dumb athletes. That's more entertaining
If you can't see why fans gravitate towards Ant and Luka over Brown then I don't know what to tell you
Finally Bill and his father is happy now
I mean, I don't know about Chris and Rob, but I know what Bill said about Jaylen Brown when he signed that big contract. The internet never forgets.
Wasnt he bummed that they didn't trade Jaylen before he was eligible or something like that?
Having a run,where most teams are injured,just means you've been around for a long time and you always stay on top.
They went 64-18 cut the BS
They went 64-18
@@James-ui4edthat's nice. They've been very good for years and always managed to lose
WE DID IT
5 championships in 57 years.
Celtics fans- ‘WE DID IT!!!!!!!! ‘
😂😂😂
@@disintegrateallhumans3067You think 5 Championships in 57 years is a bad thing?
@@NRF787- Compared to the 11 championships the Lakers won in the same timeframe, 5 championships is nothing in comparison.
@@disintegrateallhumans3067 If you always have to bring up another team when talking about your own, then it's not that big of a gap.
Brown was dominant early in the series, he was the biggest reason the C’s took control of the series. The series was never in doubt in large part because of how dominant Brown was early on. He’s absolutely the MVP.
Tatum is a slightly better player, but Brown was better in this series.
It’s not a difficult concept to wrap your head around, unless you’re a Celtics fan
Not really. You somehow dismissed KP and Jrue Holiday, and Derek White. Naaah, JB gave his best to a team effort and was NOT the reason the Celtics were dominant. Absolutely NOT. It was 7-8 players contributing a superb team play.
I thought I saw something in that last game … when Tatum did go to another level. And there’s something about realizing a person can do it.
frontrunner, jb and jrue carried to 3-0 where no team has ever came back. then tatum has his first good game 😂
Brown>luka....guarded him and attacked him on offense
Stop
No one who loves the Celtics cares if anyone else is happy they won. Its our team we will enjoy it.
Tatum definitely hasn't reached his ceiling yet. He has way more to grow and get even better.
Could you imagine a Pod in some sort of parallel universe where both the Clippers and Celtics win the title?! It would be like a 24/7 pod
Guys wonder aloud why the Celtics Championship was not more of a focus, them immediately segway into MVP voting and nonsensical tennis discussion.
Bills idea for celtics to draft Bronny James and hold him hostage is so funny!
777 views at 13mins. Bill is the luckiest sport podcaster in the world.
Isn't 13 unlucky tho?
😊
I'd love a new Bill Simmons book covering the period from banner 17 to banner 18
Jaylen also, incrementally, minimized his mistake-making over the years. Especially on defense.
Whos team is it Cousy or Russell
Is there a company uniform where you have to wear unbuttoned button up shirt with a T-shirt underneath?
This is crazy I'm loving it no credit stop comparing and let's just see next year.
#18 baby! Go Celtics!
We have both of them on our team… BOTH
If JT develops a stop and pop and/or floater in the paint he'll be unstoppable. Obviously his jump shot has to become more consistent as well.
Bill, everyone already knew what the Cs were trying to do😂 they didn’t give away any grand secrets by saying they want everyone to be a shooting threat and a switchable defender lol
I would say that ESPN had been selling the narrative of Who is the better player or the real Celtic MVP and by delaying the vote they really can establish or sustain the question of Who really is the better player...? Now, who is really happy with the outcome: Adam Silver and the Boston top brass given that the highest paid player had been left out of the All NBA Team (which saved the Celtics millions of dollars) and now there is no excuse for not making JB a marketable face.
Best postgame analysis 🏆🏆🏆😂😂😂
Copying this sounds easy but its really not. Biston has two giant forwards who outkicked their coverage from a development standpoint. Like hit 90-95% of their potential. Thry have two all defense guards who make off the dribble threes, playmake, can play in the dunker, offensive rebound and can guard 4's snd 5's, 7'3" center who shoots 28 foot threes and another center who can switch onto guards
This is no more replicable than the Kobe Shaq Lakers or Showtime Lakers or 04 or 89 Pistons or the Warriors
Teams have been trying to get two way players for over a decade. Its just really f**king hard. Look at the Clippers with PG and Kawhi
The confusion comes from many people not wanting the Celtics to win and struggling to accept the reality that they’re a great team. They don’t know how to feel.
This will be one of the most forgotten titles in history. They beat nobody and the playoffs were so unforgettable all around
The take that Tatums response felt pre mediated is highest level of hater. What you want him to come out and act like he hasn't been working towards this his whole life?
He’s so cringe. Brown is their best player
@VintageVoid3
Tatum protects the rim where brown doesn't and every team puts their best defender on Tatum. Don't listen to me listen to the nba coaches.
Agreed. They hated on Jokic for not celebrating much then hate Tatum for celebrating too much. That's just sports media.
You can tell by the 2 random guys sitting next to the Bill Simmons that so many people are HEATED that the Celtics won the title. It's hilarious
Tatum’s shot mechanics keeps him from a having a midrange. It’s more of a set shot and not a jump shot.
There is definitely one last level Tatum can reach. Bill is right on the money; he needs to develop that in between shot from about 6 to 12 feet. He tried to floater in 2023 but abandoned it halfway through the season. That and change of pace on drives. Sometimes he gets to willing to put his head down and go full speed to the rim and smoke layups. This off-season he should work on euro steps and deceleration at the rim.
Comparing Tatum to Duncan is a sin. A goddamn sin. Duncan from 98 to 07 was a proper monster. A system unto himself.
The 2015 warriors faced turbulence in the playoffs and had memorable moments that Boston lacked
I still can't believe Max Strus' son won Finals MVP.
They the athletes that will have a great advantage in this league
As a fanatical supporter of Celtics for 5 decades (similar to Bill) and a former resident of Massachusetts for 30 years, I can assure you that we kept the receipts. By the way, the reason Doncic and Irving didn’t have a good series was due to the Celtics phenomenal defense. Just saying.
Unfortunately I was unable to get off work to attend the parade today, however my niece (Harvard University student and a LA Fakers fan) was streaming it live for me on my phone while I was also watching it on my laptop.
The fraud pundits first said the Celtics had an easy run and picked Mavs in 5, and when that didn’t work out they switched to: “well they are not the Best Ever”. What a load of nonsense.
☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️
💚💚💚💚💚💚
🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀
Brad, Wyc (my fellow Worcesterite) and Pags are already working on Banner #19.
13:39 you mean 2017 Warriors not we believe
Did he say "Tatum didnt have the holes in his game LeBron did"??????? What f'n holes???? Who is he Skip Bayless???
If Lebron didn't have holes in his game, then how did he develop a post game? How did he become a good 3pt shooter, if he didn't have holes in his game?
They are talking about from a development standpoint. Lebron was dominant, but he was best at just taking it to the hoop. He added more to his game, whereas Tatums is more well rounded, so it's harder to see lots of growth.
The only thing better Tatum has in his skill set over Bron is 3 point percentage.... he cant pass, get to the line or play D like lebron
If the NBA shortens the season, then that helps teams other than Boston because durability becomes less of an issue.
Rob’s been watching a lot of Jason Timpf. Kinda sounding like him👀
Stop comparing Jason Tatum to LeBron James please. Save your credibility. I agree Tatum could probably get better though.
So in summary, which I agree with, best team of the season won. People will have to rack their brains a minute in 3 years time to name who won in 24.
15 is the 2nd best now for us warriors fans
Fist pumpin James Young to banner 18
30:08 "... that wins you championships in this context. And, that's okay ..."
NOT a finished product! ( Tatum ). Mark my words - next season with a title and the contract under his belt, Tatum is gonna fine tune his game like Brown did this season and will be his best one yet.. Like Bill says, there's the mid range part of the game, there's finishing a little stronger at the rim ( he's gotten stronger last two seasons and there's a little more to come ) and most of all there's another level of maturity and basketball IQ - when to take over, when to share the load, shot selection defending. Tatum is the most versatile star forward this side of LeBron he's got the ingredients. When he gets the mix right ( and it keeps getting better ) then you'll see his true ceiling. Gonna be anazing
Boston has proven that they can handle Giannis and Embiid (with Al), yet nobody to take on Joker. That's the next frontier for this team, have a big big that can take on this type of Center.
Al and KP would hold up on him, They would attack him on defense non stop.
@@Paul_pp maybe Tillman can grow into that role.
The last 10 years, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 were the full force finals. 2015 no kyrie and love. 2016 draymond suspension. 2017-2018 affected by 2016 draymond suspension. 2019 no kd and klay. 2020 covid bubble.
Devonte Graham changed the entire course of the 2024 postseason.
Something the media hasn't looked more into, Why did the C's, of all places, decided to go to Miami to celebrate the day after winning? Here Jimmy! You beat us twice, yet we got the Larry O! How you like me now?!!!!! In your face.
The Thunder are well equipped to play Celtics ball at some point.
Bill, did you forget about Celtics indy game 1 at home?
Geez, did these guys actually watch the games? Did they see the iconic Jaylen Brown dunks? I had to stop listening to this because they were Debbie downers on how beautiful it was to watch how dominant the Cs were! 💚☘️
Spurs is a very good comparison. Esp considering Tatum = Wing Duncan.
Wont be able to watch Bill for a month now because its gonna be all Celtics content 🥴
It doesn't matter what Brown does, he will never get the respect he deserves. While he has been playing for championships in the past 5 to 6 years, he has had some very good playoff games and a few bad ones, while some of the top NBA players where in Cancun watching Brown play; however, he always seems to be judged in a negative tone. Example, I think in 2022 after the NBA final the ringer ranked him as the 12th best player, yet this year that he has won a championship and was the MVP of the playoffs, they rank him now the 15th Best player....how can someone that upped his game dramatically, is now being ranked worse than before.
The league got better.
Although he was also never that good before. He actually is now.
His left hand is a million percent better as a ball handler and finisher just vs last year. His defense last year was almost bad and he was much more focused this year. And offensively he cut out a lot of crap. Especially in the playoffs. He doesn't waste possessions, he didn't ball stop, you didn't have the isolations to nowhere. The passing is much better.
But he also had to do it in the playoffs because in the regular season he was still a league average efficiency volume scorer.
If respect means saying he's a top 5 player or he's better than Tatum or he should win MVP. Well he's none of that so that's not ever happening.
But this podcast is literally him getting that respect and acknowledgement and you're still complaining. Lol
You just have never watch him, his only issue has been how he has been marketed, which in the past has been zero. How can he not be good if in the past 4 or 5 years, he has been averaging 25pts a game as supposedly as a second option, in the NBA past, only 3 other players have done that. In the past, Jaylen could have 35 pts and Tatum 36pts in a game, and nothing was ever mentioned about Brown...the Talk was all about Tatum.....Tatum's numbers have always been better just because he gets to shoot more.....
@@francisco2525 lol. I've watched him _a lot_ I just understand what I'm watching.
Putting up numbers doesn't mean shit. Especially scoring in this era of the NBA.
He has a negative career on/off. Volume scoring on a good team just isn't very valuable because good teams are usually more efficient than league average. That's how you can score 25 per game and not be good. Because there is a lot more to basketball than scoring at the same rate as the average player.
Tatum has been a positive efficiency scorer and elite defender for three years. And has had a significant playmaking advantage over Brown with a lower turnover rate. He gets more opportunities because he's _better_ not because *THREE* different coaches all conspired against Jaylen. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
As far as marketability, there is no grand conspiracy there either. It's just whether people, usually kids, like your game. Steph is marketable. LeBron. KD. Kyrie. Kobe.
Jaylen doesn't have a pretty, eye catching game and he doesn't have a big personality. (Neither does Tatum for that matter)
11:40. Why did those two laugh at the comparison to the 15 Warriors? The Celtics are absolutely loaded with all two-way players versus many of those were just one-way players. We would give them a run for their money for sure. I think Cs win in 7.
Because GS won 3 more titles after and had a small dynasty
'15 Warriors beat the Cavs with only Lebron. Love was out, and Kyrie was out. I don't rate that chip too much, especially since they lost a 3-1 comeback the next year, and then won two chips after signing Durant. The '22 chip is their absolute best one.
@@shorewall Not close. Definitely not. Cleveland only won in 16 because Draymond punched LeBron in the nuts otherwise that's over in 5
If Jayson just shoots better and is more consistent then he becomes top 3 in the league.
American sports leans a lot on the individuals instead of the team. It’s more about WWE style story arcs… the Celtics dominated as a team so it’s no fun for the media
How many championships does Bill have now?
1 million Bostonians showed up for the Celtics TEAM today at the parade. Maybe follow their lead, Dufus.
I don't get the Kyrie hate lool his 33 years old and has a better stat line then JB in his prime. 25\5\5 on 50\40\90 vs 23\5\3 on 50\35\70. Playoff : 22\5\4 on 47\40\85 vs 23\2\6 on 52\33\66. JB's Playoff run was average at best - the real MVP is the celtics head office ( D white , Kripsta , Jru ) put all the expectation for JT and JB to elevate their game because they knew those two cant bring home a championship.
Note that Michael Jordan didn't win his first championship until he was 28. Tatum got his first at 27.
Tatum is 26
@@schuylersavage276 Thank you for your correction.
@@johnnyb93 got u
I find it hard to believe how people are viewing Tatum as a finished product 😂 he’s gotten better every year, he’s gonna improve at even more this summer (although last team USA offseason he admitted it kept him from being able to work on his game as much).
Do you think Shai is a finished product? No, nobody does. Yet shai is only 5 months younger than Tatum 😂 why do people act like playoff games played is how you improve and once you hit 100 it’s just over, absolutely not lmao Lebron didn’t stop improving until he got to LA in his mid 30s.
At minimum his shooting gets more consistent over the years, the passing becomes even more effective and less turnover prone, tighter handles, and he gets a bit stronger.
But Tatum has identified weaknesses in his game every offseason and improved at them. Rebounding, passing, strength, shooting, he’s worked on all of this stuff and will continue to.
I think over the next 3-4 years Tatum could add some if not all of these skills: dominant post game (with his size and skill set, he could really lean into the bully ball and dare teams to help off of his shooters to defend his post ups), the passing hits next level (I’m talking 7+ assists per game to the point where hes a premier playmaker), rim protection and interior defense take another leap (being able to defend the interior as a small ball 5, and defend switches in the low post), better shot diet (this one’s easy, half the time he wants to take a side step three just go get a middie instead), I think if he can add just a few of these, he could easily get an mvp. I think if he wins more chips, he’s gonna be guaranteed an mvp because the league seems to love giving out pity MVPs (Embiid lmao)
It's like they were saying about Brown, he just got better at a lot of little things this year. Well, so can Tatum. And that can make a big difference.
The great houses have answered. They refuse honor his ascendancy
Bill totally nailing the tennis analogy but whiffing on comparison. Djokovic is incredible but kinda loathed/accepted and Federer is universally beloved.
Jalen started prospering exponentially when he converted to Islam.
Tatum can improve his shot....but getting stronger might get in the way of his touch....seems to have
Martina Hinges
It's furthering the steady erosion of team importance in general. Starting over a decade ago, I realized how many young people don't follow teams at all--they follow PLAYERS, and happen to cheer for whatever team that guy plays for (so, yes, if they're LeBron fans, they've switched teams four times). It started back when we convinced ourselves that MJ won championships with tiny assists from Scottie, Grant/Rodman plus the overrated "genius" of their coach, and 9 dead bodies along for the ride. We encourage and emphasize this myth in almost everything we do, talk about, celebrate etc--societally, culturally, etc. We throw some bromides at "teamwork" but we don't really BELIEVE it We're a culture obsessed with individuality (even war movies have one dude winning battles).Look how every game is marketed. For a long time, it has been "Watch Luka (and the Mavs), versus Tatum (and the Cs)." All about stars, teams minimized at every turn. Likewise, we believe "best player wins championships," (which I always thought was overrated/stupid. LeBron was the best player for twelve years. He won 4 times). Thankfully, Brad Stevens called BS on it too. He looked hard, figured out the limits financially, and (correctly) deduced that a team with ALL good players (and no discernible weaknesses) is better than the "best player."
Jokic & AG would have bodied the Celtics front court.
Minnesota edging out Denver in 7 games was the biggest black swan event in this playoffs smh.
Rob Mahoney is Bruce Wayne
That luka is a wing arguement is so dumb by that logic magic is a center
I literally just watched the celebration 1 hr ago and wondered if you guys already commented on those questions. The whole segment was super cringy.
Well talking heads 24/7 well make that happen bill. That’s why tv sports shows suck. They have to show up and talk about something even when theirs nothing to talk about. Podcast are where it’s at when you can do it when you want and when it’s needed
Less Celtics thoughts
the older bill gets he somehow manages to be an even bigger homer
That table needs to be a little bit lower - it makes everyone look like three kids.
Tatum in the playoffs was not close to the second best wing player 😂 he just had a great team.. Jaylen was better for starters
Dont think so, JB wasn’t getting doubled or the other teams best defenders
@ajbianchi85 JB was defending Luka the most he was by far the best player and made better decisions than Tatum who through the first three games shoot as bad as anyone in the finals again and turned ball over like crazy again..