I took classes from him. He's such a nice and funny guy, very supportive of the community and the casters. He taught me regular build orders and strats, not this kind of stuff, but he loves to play anti-meta style. He's thrilled that you posted this, and since he doesn't speak English he's asking around what's it that you are saying.
@@pvtjhon Actually, he calls him "daddy" because T90 has a huge difference in the history on his favor against him. To put you in context, in our culture you're the "father/daddy" of your "child/son" if you almost always beat him in any kind of competition. So yea, germanpenn's statement is right: Biry does not know the different connotations between our & your culture. Hence he sounded insulting even when trying to flatter admitting his "son" role.
@@pvtjhon it's not an insult, quite the opposite. In our culture you are entitled to call SON to such friend that you allways beat on a game. He is your son in that game. So given that he recognizes that T90 allways beats him, he calls him daddy in return. Just remember When you where a kid and you play any sport with your father. He always wins
@@pvtjhon it's not an insult, quite the opposite. In our culture you are entitled to call SON to such friend that you allways beat on a game. He is your son in that game. So given that he recognizes that T90 allways beats him, he calls him daddy in return. Just remember When you where a kid and you play any sport with your father. He always wins
OMG, I played against a player that did exactly the same thing (I'm around 1150 ELO), I think he was Argentinian too btw, not only he TC dropped me, annoyed the hell out of me with vil fighting, he also kept taunting "wood please" "wood please" when he saw I was struggling for wood to repair my TC
I feel like this has been done to me way back, with some buddies of mine all i did to counter it was move my villagers to a differ location, never lost to them so this tactic died out because of the easy counter. Strange to see it coming back nobody honestly remembers how to counter it. Also if you tc drop them while doing that puts too much pressure on them, Especially when their focus is so hard on that one spot. of course i knew they played that way so i knew to move out before they could see i did. never hurts to take 3 vills to a differ location to build a tc later any ways
AOE2, like anything, is a sport at the end of the day. This guy uses troll-like tactics in order to disrupt the opposition but none of it is actually illegal. A refined master of the dark arts. I like it.
@@brooks5895 The easy solution to this problem would be that you can't delete wood by building a building over it. Yes, that would require you to chop an entire tree down in order to build something in that spot, but that seems like a more real life way of doing things.
Biry is well known in the spanish speaker community, and there's a word for his strategy, 'ranciar' which would be something like "ranciding" (like from rancid, you know)... He's super funny on his streams, you can tell he is actually having fun, and he actually plays like this 90% of his games. 100% cool guy, we love him.
@@pvtjhon Because he uses them to climb elo with different strats to see how good the strat can be. We love him, he is not dishonest, he is not a cheater, he uses ingame tools.
@@pvtjhon Idk why Hoang plays the same strat everyday since 2016, why hera always spam hussar, why clowns only play fortress, why Lyx and MrYo always make the same strategy on team games, Vivi played steppe lancers and coustelliers non-stop when they were OP, etc, etc ... Who you think you are to say what is "good" or "bad" if the game allows it. Lets be honest here, he likes to win, like you and me, and this strategy dies at high level, that's what smurfing is all about.. Tatoh has a bunch of smurfing series: "from 0 to 2k", "feudalvoy", "boyagresiff", "sinarqueriavoy", etc. The ladder between 1000 and 1600 where I am is infested by smurf, it's a thing that should be solved by devs, meanwhile if you dont like play sims man.
becasue of matches like this i stoped playing the game,.. its just not fun. Hope Biry having fun destrroying this nice game for others... what a jerk..
In Argentina, to call someone "son" means that you are better and can teach the other how to play. Cause a dad teaches his son how to do stuff. So, by calling you daddy, Biry is acknowledging you are better than him. He is like making fun of the fact you are better. In Argentina is very common to tease and make fun of each other, even ourselves.
@@postmortemarg u should visit argentina and see why we are the best people to be around if you want to have fun and eat propper food. And maybe your euroscentristic ass changes a little
I first meet Biry in early 2004. On our first game, he did an early feudal 8 vill fwd when meta for that was sending 4 😁. He was named Biry-Biry after the monk's converting sound expressed in sort of argentinian slang, when monks were not very popular on the old days. It's a lifetime dedicated to be annoying. It's funny how he get's excited every time he sees a wacky strat, even if it's performed by a low ELO player.
@@T90Officialhey!, a translation thing, here on Argentina we have a phrase: "he had me like his son" when someone wins you every time, you know, like when your are a small kid and loose every game vs your dad...that's what he says on live stream "OMG Mr T90...he wins me every time, it's my dad!" at the end someone say him "don't call him daddy it has sexual connotation" and he was like "Oh no!!!" haha
@@T90Official watching you lose the straggler trees when you needed them was too good though. T90 "anti-straggler" Official, taken off wood by lack of stragglers. The justice of the Lorax is slow, but it is inevitable.
After placing those two towers on your woodline, if he had TC dropped you a second time instead of building his TC back home you were done. Your TC had already lost a quarter of its hp, he could have denied your mill again with it and you had no wood at that point. It's a weird thing to say but I honestly feel like that's why he lost, he didn't fully commit to going all in. At 14:45 it's 24 villagers vs 17 and you had almost no resources left and no lumber camp, he should have crushed you but he gave you a breather to try and rebuild his base.
I thought the same thing while watching it!!! Old Biry would totally build a second TC on T90's face 11111 Knowing how he plays nowadays, Biry probably felt that the damage was enough and if he boomed safely at home while creating havoc on T90's base with the vills he would win in the end
Booming could also have worked if he did it immediately and didn't idle his tc, he rebuilt it, but made basically no more vills, and kept like 8 idles at the front, he needed to either commit to aggression or commit to booming
I think he had two win conditions. TC drop a second time, or just go home and play for Castle Age and then build Stable units. Either way, surely, he would have won. But yeah, it went south from there.
I used to think I understood the phrase "early aggression." Clearly I was mistaken. Thanks for sharing, T90. I thought that was hilariously fun. Amazing that you stood against it and won. I agree he's playing within what the game allows, and in LEL you always say players should play in the way that's fun to them. ;-) He's not trolling. He's just fully gone to the non-meta dark side of the force. Lol.
Biry's problem is that he doesn't know when to stop with those crazy strategies and start playing like a normal, more meta oriented person. At the time 14:04 of the video he was ten villagers ahead. At that time he must have realized that he had already done enough damage and returned all those villagers to work on their economy. He would have reached the Castle Age much sooner and I'm sure he would have ended up winning the game. Greetings.
That would have worked, but if he wanted to end the game right away, at 14:30, you can see he has enough resources to drop a TC right between the towers and T90's TC. As soon as he starts building, T90 probably resigns instantly.
I love how in a game where the object is to annihilate your opponent, and where scout rushes and M@A rushes are "normal" strategies, people consider this kind of harassment to be rude or dickish. 3 to 5 scouts in my base at feudal age is just as rude and devastating when you don't know what to do. Same same. 🤣
I think the difference is that there are already pre-established builds and strategies you can use to counter scouts and M@A's, whereas this kind of strat is very unorthodox. Dealing with scouts is all about execution, whereas dealing with this kind of strat is all about mental fortitude and sheer willpower
I know people don't expect it, but once you see an enemy villager near your base you should react, you have between 10 and 15 villagers and the enemy between 1 and 5. If you let him wall your lumbercamp or take you out of your wood it is all about execution. The mental fortitude and willpower is only needed if you let him take you out of your wood. For that to happen your opponent had to outplay you massively in vill fight or your response was weak, like when you react to a 4 or 5 scout rush with 1 spear and end losing a whole woodline because of a poor reaction. The same thing that happens with this strat happens when you let someone tower your base in feudal and end having no gold or wood, or when the opponent goes up early and denies your gold with army. You know you are in disadvantage, you know you did something wrong, you know it will be hard to respond accordingly at that point; after all, resource control is the core of this game
@@gianfrancoarezo1859 The issue is that Biry used Berbers for this. His 5 fast vils will beat 10 normal vils with micro. It's not inherently overpowered but uncompetitive. Laming the trees is a real twist of the knife too.
This play style requires a lot of creativity to pull off, and also a lot of creativity to defend. Even if you don’t adopt this strategy, I think playing these games out is good to keep you on your toes. That said, there were numerous times where I’d have resigned. Well played T90.
I think is necesary for the game that this kind of players exist, it helps only-metaplayers improve in new ways to handle stress during the game and creating new defensive strategies. Also, this kind of players creating new strategies help the game not beein repetitive, if there are only meta strategies it would be always the same and the same, kind of boring. It's creative and funny. He just do it for fun and for finding new strategies with the game resources. You always handle him very well that makes you his father, he recognize that you are better and he isn't toxic. It's just his style, and thats what takes him there, at your level.
With estimates of "Roughly 1 food per 17 seconds" if we start from the point where you have all 8 sheep inside the mill 1:55 (in game), and count up to when you asked how much food was brought by the bonus, 30:17 (in game), then you have brought around 836 food. Just a bit more if we consider you put initial sheeps earlier than that. If we count up to the end of the game 37:00, then you have brought 990 food. (Round up to 1k food counting the food brought when you didnt have all 8 sheep in the mill yet)
@@Megiago Thats enough free food to go imp. Very useful indeed. I also love those extra berries in nomad maps. Just the most secure start even if unlucky with spot.
Such an awesome game. Thanks for pausing and explaining things because I would've been lost without it! Also, his style is quite creative. It's nice to see a more "chess-like" game structure with traditional strategies, but thinking outside the box and doing crazy things is good for both players every once in a while (IMO).
This game is one of the best I've ever seen as far as execution is concerned for the both of you. You dug down deep and just stayed in the game.. so much respect for that. React, react, react.. the APM must have been insane for both of y'all.
I think the opportunity for going unorthodox strategies keeps the game interesting. Occasionally I go full feudal and make the game messy (1150 elo). It can turn out to be a really fun game adapting to uncommon situations.
I'm 900 ELO, and I ran into the same strategy online a couple weeks ago, much less refined than this guy here, sure, but I'm still quite proud of myself for keeping calm and dealing with it. For me, finding another wood line further away was key.
"Just resign and play an actual player" - I love the salt even while casting the recording. Players like Biry are a nightmare to play against but very entertaining to watch.
if you know the straggler tree laming is coming, you could build 1-3 palisades beside the tree to block the farm placement. not great but it would be a 3-9 wood investment to save upto 100 wood. I guess you could partly build them to refund them later.
He really likes you and always denotes that you are cool about all his strategies (you may guess some pople aren't 11) and that you win most of the times. That's why he calls you daddy, because in spanish "being the son" of someone implies that that someone is better, more experienced or has something to teach. I also want to add that he sees hoang like a master but he isn't like him. Biry has very good micro (his vill micro is remarkable) and a nice toolbelt of strategies, and one of them is playing meta (though most people only know him for the weird plays). That makes him even more dangerous because he can adapt depending on the player, matchup and decide when to go a specific strat on a specific game, on a specific moment of the game or even when to switch from one strat to another in the middle of the game; and that is what i think he did when he douched you. He realized that his vill rush wasn't and wouldn't work the same after you built a lumbercamp and walled in your villagers and had to do something fast to prevent reacting time for you and so a snowball. He had to wait for to wait for the 100% uptime while you were in feudal already and could build towers and archers. What can stop that or give him time? A douche! A douche could cause lots of problems to your already fragile wood marker. Also, after all the time and resources he wasted on his aggression he NEEDED the fight to be on your base. Besides that, I wanted to mention that he knows how to play meta, he just prefers to play weirdly and to enjoy the game. On a recent tournament he played against Capoch (3-2 for Capoch) and Capoch himself told on his stream after someone in chat said something negative about his playstyle "He was the player that made me struggle the most". Sometimes when that topic comes on his stream he says that he just likes to play on a way he has fun and where matches don't get too repetitive. And if he played meta all the time and not just some games he would lose the thrill of playing the game, and that is what made me love both your and his channel. It's all about laughing and having a good time :) There are lots of ways of playing the game and we all can apply them as Biry does. He learns when playing against people and from replays and that is something I admire about him. He always gives credit when he sees someone doing something weird and tries adjusting it to his playing like he did with Fulgor, Survivalist, Sitaux, Semur, Rubenstock and people from the Microsoft Zone. The most inspiring thing about this topic is that some of the strategies (maybe most?) weren't discovered to this day and some of them were used in the old days when meta was different and disappeared as players left the game. We can scavenge old videos or posts on old forums and find something really valuable! By the way, sorry for the long comment and all the parentheses (I deleted some of them [not these 11]), I really like this topic and I am truly grateful to Biry and T90 for their content
Biry is a super cool dude, always hyped, great admirer of all AOE2 players, casters, etc. Always saying that he plays that way because he gets bored with meta. When he loses he never tilts and always says gg! Really fun and wonderful player. Spanish community loves him. Oh and he knows some english so he has a repertoire of spanglish expressions such as "daddy" etc. showing respect/fun comments to whom he plays aganist with
I think placing one palisade in front of the straggler would be more effective since they would have to get in TC range to place any building in the tree and you only use one palisade per tree
You see .. this is what I love about the community and content be s he are, I watch biry on a regular basis and found super creative his trick and with this answer ... Mam good move, smart
Here in Argentina (and all Latin America, I guess) to be someone's "daddy" ("papá" in spanish) is a sports slang that means to be super ahead of him in the wins/loses record. Biry uses it joking about you almost always winning the matches you play against each other.
I would say that players like Biri raise the skill ceiling. I huge part of AoEII is recognising and adapting to, or coming up with and deploying, an enormously wide array of different strategies. Nuking strategies like this one into the ground would be artificially limiting the variety of play and skill ceiling; and let's not forget, as annoying as it is to play against, _watching_ a crazy bizarre play like a TC drop being executed to its maximum potential is just absolutely beautiful and hilarious. It's likely part of the popularity of the strategy is because it's weird and silly _but it can work really well,_ which would also explain why it's not that common among the top 100 best players' games as opposed to the 2100 ELO. There's ways around it. That said, these kinds of things do still need to be balanced - if it's by a ways the _most_ useful strategy to be used, it'll naturally limit the variety of play as well. At the top level, people don't tend to choose a worse strategy just because it's different from what everybody else is using (just look at the Masters of Arabia tournament last year, where nearly every single game involved some kind of Men-at-Arms rush, with an Archer follow-up). The fact that it's all over the place, even among 2k1 players, means that while it's hard to pull off effectively, it's _maybe_ just a _little bit_ too powerful at the moment. In a situation like this, it's likely that tweaking a single variable by ±10% will fix the issue.
Completely fine to play this way, players should be prepared for the unpredictable instead of only tunnel visioning preparation for meta moves. Very entertaining, thanks for uploading it.
As a lowish elo player I would have placed my lumber camp very far from my base after the enemy denies my first lumber camp so that he can't find it. Even if I have to walk across the map it's so much better than to get tower dropped in the woodline continuously. (The obvious downside, though, is that I would have fewer villagers protetcting my base in villager wars.) Also, T90, as you say all the time: If you get attacked the best thing you can do is to counter attack. You eventually did, but maybe could have been a bit earlier. But anyway, great game! I really enjoy watching these chaotic matches in which Biry and Rubenstock flip the standard flow of the game upside down and sideways. I know playing these matches are a different thing but they sure are entertaining.
Honestly love watching and playing these types of games from time to time. You could place a palisade wall behind the stragglers to block the farms too.
When he first started running around your base I would have waited until his annoying units were of the left side of the base and I would have snuck a couple of villagers to the right corner and tried getting wood and gold over in the corner while he's too busy being an a'hole inside your base. That way you'd have some resources that aren't being disturbed. As long as he didn't notice of course. Would have took really good timing.
This is the basis of my preferred strategy: as I create villagers, I scatter them all over the map - 1 woodcutter here, 2 there, 2 gold miners at this one, another 2 at that one, and so on. This way, my opponent has to constantly scout all over the map hunting out stray villagers, and I build multiple redundancy into my resource gathering to boot.
@@Mystikan that's just terrible, you're not only wasting resources in multiple camps but also having vills wasting time walking to wherever yo send them unprotected
On high level games that works only for a little time. Players deny resources so you won't produce or build something. Once they see you producing units or building something you shouldn't have because of a resource they think they're denying they will start scouting and will find your villagers. I see it all the time when Biry or Tatoh are live or when someone is playing against Hoang and tries to deny his gold. Once they see the market prices changing or siege being produced they start looking for the secondary or neutral piles of gold. Those players under pressure know that they will probably be spotted but sometimes that is the only way out of the pressure for a period of time so they take that risk anyways
I'm not experienced, so hopefully this question has a good answer: Why not just send a group of 6-8 vils to a corner to a hidden woodline? Especially on arabia, there are plenty of wood lines, and when you're being vil rushed, it's unlikely your opponent is focused on scouting the map.
You know it's been a wild, unorthodox game when at 19:00, both players are still feudal, the eco K/D is 18 to 5, and the player with more vil losses actually has 4 MORE vils total. To the question at the end, I'd liken it to demos in Rocket League (which I remember T90 saying he used to play). A player on a team intentionally going for a lot of demos can be very tilting, and people often complain about it, but it's a part of the game and it's not impossible to stop. I think it's fair game and you just have to keep your head and focus on your win condition.
thats weird cuz sometimes when i make a farm on a straggler tree the tree stays on the farm until they finish but if they move it disappears some weird shit
Just like the 2nd amendment has those tiny little words; "shall not be infringed", I believe all tactics in AOE2 should be legal. Laming, lying in chat to falsely boost confidence, troll strats, that cute little farm to delete straggler trees.. This game is an undeniable masterpiece, bugs and all, don't colorblind yourself for the sake of *competition". I'm proud of you for sticking in and pulling out a V here, T90. Great work.
Your best solution would have probably been to walk some villagers away to get wood further away. By the time he realizes and scouts you his forward vills will have wasted so much time.
What’s this about “laming” trees? I have been laming my own trees because they get in the way while I’m building and I want to be able to see better. (yes I am a LEL.)
25:47 what you're describing sounds like the killer in the Wolf Creek movie... The way he's talking, It's detached from the reality of what he's doing "to you".
tbh if you think is annoying, *remember theres lamers, drop tc, clown closed map bois and more* and no, the tower rush t90 for me is like "another day in the office"
t90 - I'm a fan and I've been following you for ages. One thing I can suggest - It would TILT pro players when you keep claiming YOU'RE JUST A CASTER. When you cast a game yes, BUT when you actually PLAY the game - you're a player just like all others. Good for you remaining calm and ending with the W at the end. GG WP
I think everything he did was fair game. Apart from the straggler tree delete I have done most of this stuff on socotra. So much more difficult on other maps though
I think straggler trees work that way so people can build farms without waiting for the trees to reach 0. Every player does that all the time with their own farms, letting the enemy do that on you is more of a player mistake than a game-breaking mechanic. There are 3 useable woodlines that can't be deleted, that you need to protect as much as any other resources like forward berries or gold. The game is about controlling resources after all. That's why everyone talks about eco as much as about military. The "oh they deleted the thing my economy runs on with no risk to theirself" works on several common strategies like when people reach feudal earlier and denies the opponent's gold, or when people go tower rushing, or almost any other strat in the game. I think people need to start thinking about dark age as an age for itself, not only as the age where we hurry to reach feudal first. We all should know that there's risk in every age, even when 99% of the players goes through dark age almost mechanically
The key here is that deleting straggler trees only has an impact if you let 1 to 5 villagers win against 10 to 15 villagers when fighting for wood. T90 lost his wood because he didn't scout the enemy (then no short walls on wood) and because he didn't want to micro his vills or didn't want to take the risk of losing a vill. Only after losing that fight or ignoring the enemy vills farm deleting straggler trees becomes an issue, and surely has an impact but it doesn't work instantaneously. That takes time as straggler trees almost everytime (if not always) spawn on all sides of the tc; it gives a long enough time to react and long time to delete all of them even when the situation is ideal for the aggressor, that is when the defender messed up and hit every single straggler tree. Straggler tree deleting becomes deadly only if there's no reaction from the defender even after seeing the vill deleting the first tree. The defender can always fight the villager or villagers with higher numbers, after all the enemy eco is much worse. There are more options, like building a pallisade in front of a straggler, fighting while the lumbercamp is being walled, destroying those pallisades or even wasting the aggressor's wood (already has bad eco) if he is quick enough destroying the farm with the tc. Maybe then you tell me that he can use multiple vills to destroy all at the same time. Again, needs the defender to hit every single tree to do that and to do nothing after being taken out of wood, and also the aggressor surely needs a nice micro to perform that. It's the defender that has the control over his straggler trees, and getting them deleted is only the last nail of a coffin the defender crafted for himself
@@gianfrancoarezo1859 Some of that may be true if the villagers were the same speed, but doing this with Berbers left no way for T90 to fight his opponent if they just want to run in fast, place a farm and leave. The only counter play is to waste wood he already doesn't have meaning that there is no legitimate counterplay to this tactic which is what makes it OP and unfair. If T90 had a realistic way to force a vil fight that would be a different story, but this whole tactic is almost impossible to stop with the faster vils allowing his opponent to simply walk in at will and walk out at will.
Again, that only matters if you let the snowball run. He needs to take a fight to take you out of your lumbercamp, you shouldn't lose with more villagers, even when he can runaway and be annoying. The problem is that people is ultra-conservative when the matter is eco and won't take a risk of losing a vill, or idling some of them. The berber player won't fight if his villagers are low and less than the enemy, then he will have more idle eco than you, will have to return his villagers home AND will be up so late. If you let him take your lumbercamp from you of course he will be on his ideal scenario and will have advantage over the enemy. It works the same way when you let a goth player boom and can get the spam rolling. Mainly low elo players complain about it, because better players adapt and punish. In this case people should do the same and know how to react to something like that. I know few people play this way, but that's exactly how meta changes over time
good to see that he's just a very good spirited (and ruthless) pro player and not some ahole who gets sick satisfaction from ruining the game for other people. he's basically a troll with a ton of technical and mechanical skill.
Idea to defend the trees: Place some Pallisades or other things around it, the main thing is that the space for farms isn't enough. Where no farms can be built, no trees are stolen.
saving that mill was crucial so that you had constant access to food. btw i think biry's gameplay is great and actually enjoyable, at least for me as a viewer 11, because after all, all he did was executing the strat that the game provided or hinted in its mechanics and design, so it is valid and legal, therefore should not be punished or banned. when everyone is used to these "orthodox style" gameplay where both players develop a regular city, make regular army, and take regular fights, biry's unexpected and "unorthodox" gameplay actually brings a new way of understanding to this game, and a new fresh air of entertainment to us viewers.
my go to when people play like this is to not be afraid to evac the base and to build a tower with cav or archers out of view. then when they deny the tower you gambit the vills to kill their vills. then youre just up and they lost their momentum.
So apparently sheep/pigs are at 3.5 food/min per each garrisoned accordng to a reddit post. So if you keep them alive in the mill for ~20-25 minutes you'll probably be around even with where you would have been by gathering them earlier, since 90 food (assuming some rot)/3.5 fpm is 25.7 minutes, but there would also be villager gather time to factor in which makes this a difficult comparison. You could also think of 8 herdables in a mill as a ~1.5 farm's worth of gather rate all game. A farmtoria, if you will.
I just absolutely love that type of sht lol Tower rusher with every fibre of my body 23:55 the MAA tower rush with poles just feels so natural. That civ was made for that. I climbed from 900 elo to 1100 just because of that build. People in that elo range just can’t deal with it. And by the time they are starting to recover and killed the forward there are 60 cavalier in his base melting down the TCs. I think the best decision would be to attack me in castle age when I make literally zero military and ignore the forward but most of the players don’t make that decision. They just let me boom with perfect farms and then spam ridiculously cheap cavalier out of 8 stables in the back of my base.
I know its mighty late, but for the straggler tree laming if you place a palisade foudation build it a little next to them they cant build farms to delete them.
I know a guy who plays similarly, although it's more that he really experiments with unorthodox strategies in order to destroy the meta and then outplay in the chaos. His AOE handle is Sik
When he dropped towers on your woodline and you said "you didn't know what else to do". There was like one layer of trees left - would it be feasible to delete them with same trick he did to your stragglers? Start chopping, build a palisade and your vills are safe and ready to relocate.
T90 talking about noobs: "Look how cute! Chopping straggler trees, they don't know what they're doing!" T90 playing: "This absolute grandmaster is denying me precious resources by deleting my straggler trees!"
Biry doesnt speak english, he loves antimeta stuff, he plays for fun and thats the way he enjoys the game. When he said daddy its for an argentinian expression, not bad intended.
Counter-counter-meta game! I think this kind of things is what keep the game alive. new ways to play, making uncomfortable pro players, and force them to learn new strategies every day.
He ran out of wood when he TC dropped you, so he couldnt repair it after destroying your tower... thats when he lost it. He knew that your mill was key also, but still couldnt save his tc
I took classes from him. He's such a nice and funny guy, very supportive of the community and the casters. He taught me regular build orders and strats, not this kind of stuff, but he loves to play anti-meta style. He's thrilled that you posted this, and since he doesn't speak English he's asking around what's it that you are saying.
He clearly speaks English if he understands the concept of insulting people by calling them daddy and stuff.
@@pvtjhon Actually, he calls him "daddy" because T90 has a huge difference in the history on his favor against him. To put you in context, in our culture you're the "father/daddy" of your "child/son" if you almost always beat him in any kind of competition. So yea, germanpenn's statement is right: Biry does not know the different connotations between our & your culture. Hence he sounded insulting even when trying to flatter admitting his "son" role.
@@pvtjhon it's not an insult, quite the opposite. In our culture you are entitled to call SON to such friend that you allways beat on a game. He is your son in that game. So given that he recognizes that T90 allways beats him, he calls him daddy in return. Just remember When you where a kid and you play any sport with your father. He always wins
@@pvtjhon it's not an insult, quite the opposite. In our culture you are entitled to call SON to such friend that you allways beat on a game. He is your son in that game. So given that he recognizes that T90 allways beats him, he calls him daddy in return. Just remember When you where a kid and you play any sport with your father. He always wins
tell Biry we love him
OMG, I played against a player that did exactly the same thing (I'm around 1150 ELO), I think he was Argentinian too btw, not only he TC dropped me, annoyed the hell out of me with vil fighting, he also kept taunting "wood please" "wood please" when he saw I was struggling for wood to repair my TC
I lost, btw
11 the taunting part is so funny
I feel like this has been done to me way back, with some buddies of mine all i did to counter it was move my villagers to a differ location, never lost to them so this tactic died out because of the easy counter. Strange to see it coming back nobody honestly remembers how to counter it. Also if you tc drop them while doing that puts too much pressure on them, Especially when their focus is so hard on that one spot. of course i knew they played that way so i knew to move out before they could see i did. never hurts to take 3 vills to a differ location to build a tc later any ways
Short version this tactic should never work if you spread out and apply pressure back.
LMAO. Laughing so hard about the «wood please»
AOE2, like anything, is a sport at the end of the day. This guy uses troll-like tactics in order to disrupt the opposition but none of it is actually illegal. A refined master of the dark arts. I like it.
this!!
The straggler tree trick is actually illegal in tournaments
@@brooks5895 is it still illegal since the change?
@@brooks5895 this wasn't a tournament
@@brooks5895 The easy solution to this problem would be that you can't delete wood by building a building over it. Yes, that would require you to chop an entire tree down in order to build something in that spot, but that seems like a more real life way of doing things.
Biry is well known in the spanish speaker community, and there's a word for his strategy, 'ranciar' which would be something like "ranciding" (like from rancid, you know)... He's super funny on his streams, you can tell he is actually having fun, and he actually plays like this 90% of his games.
100% cool guy, we love him.
Why does he have 5 accounts then? He's clearly a good player. It's a dishonest thing to do.
@@pvtjhon Because he uses them to climb elo with different strats to see how good the strat can be.
We love him, he is not dishonest, he is not a cheater, he uses ingame tools.
@@pvtjhon Idk why Hoang plays the same strat everyday since 2016, why hera always spam hussar, why clowns only play fortress, why Lyx and MrYo always make the same strategy on team games, Vivi played steppe lancers and coustelliers non-stop when they were OP, etc, etc
... Who you think you are to say what is "good" or "bad" if the game allows it.
Lets be honest here, he likes to win, like you and me, and this strategy dies at high level, that's what smurfing is all about.. Tatoh has a bunch of smurfing series: "from 0 to 2k", "feudalvoy", "boyagresiff", "sinarqueriavoy", etc.
The ladder between 1000 and 1600 where I am is infested by smurf, it's a thing that should be solved by devs, meanwhile if you dont like play sims man.
becasue of matches like this i stoped playing the game,.. its just not fun. Hope Biry having fun destrroying this nice game for others... what a jerk..
@@RUclipsChannelPacman Bye, play sims
I love that there are people like this out there keeping the ladder honest.
Well said. Bierry is the test. Are you really 2.3k?? Lmao. Such a damn good game by T90 though, the responses and on-the fly-strategy.
In Argentina, to call someone "son" means that you are better and can teach the other how to play. Cause a dad teaches his son how to do stuff. So, by calling you daddy, Biry is acknowledging you are better than him. He is like making fun of the fact you are better. In Argentina is very common to tease and make fun of each other, even ourselves.
Argentina sounds like the rest of the world.
@@postmortemarg u should visit argentina and see why we are the best people to be around if you want to have fun and eat propper food. And maybe your euroscentristic ass changes a little
I first meet Biry in early 2004. On our first game, he did an early feudal 8 vill fwd when meta for that was sending 4 😁. He was named Biry-Biry after the monk's converting sound expressed in sort of argentinian slang, when monks were not very popular on the old days. It's a lifetime dedicated to be annoying. It's funny how he get's excited every time he sees a wacky strat, even if it's performed by a low ELO player.
The legend funito! We should have a chat sometime im sure you got plenty more stories
@@T90Officialhey!, a translation thing, here on Argentina we have a phrase: "he had me like his son" when someone wins you every time, you know, like when your are a small kid and loose every game vs your dad...that's what he says on live stream "OMG Mr T90...he wins me every time, it's my dad!" at the end someone say him "don't call him daddy it has sexual connotation" and he was like "Oh no!!!" haha
I loved this game, I was rooting for him all of the time.
hey i read these comments wtf >:d
:D
11
@@T90Official watching you lose the straggler trees when you needed them was too good though. T90 "anti-straggler" Official, taken off wood by lack of stragglers.
The justice of the Lorax is slow, but it is inevitable.
@@T90Official that is what makes you our Daddy
After placing those two towers on your woodline, if he had TC dropped you a second time instead of building his TC back home you were done. Your TC had already lost a quarter of its hp, he could have denied your mill again with it and you had no wood at that point. It's a weird thing to say but I honestly feel like that's why he lost, he didn't fully commit to going all in. At 14:45 it's 24 villagers vs 17 and you had almost no resources left and no lumber camp, he should have crushed you but he gave you a breather to try and rebuild his base.
yes I learned it and against jibatong it i did better! ruclips.net/video/OFVp8H8Ys8o/видео.html
I thought the same thing while watching it!!! Old Biry would totally build a second TC on T90's face 11111
Knowing how he plays nowadays, Biry probably felt that the damage was enough and if he boomed safely at home while creating havoc on T90's base with the vills he would win in the end
Booming could also have worked if he did it immediately and didn't idle his tc, he rebuilt it, but made basically no more vills, and kept like 8 idles at the front, he needed to either commit to aggression or commit to booming
I think he had two win conditions. TC drop a second time, or just go home and play for Castle Age and then build Stable units. Either way, surely, he would have won. But yeah, it went south from there.
Yeah but when you are in-game it's pretty hard to think fast.
I used to think I understood the phrase "early aggression." Clearly I was mistaken.
Thanks for sharing, T90. I thought that was hilariously fun. Amazing that you stood against it and won.
I agree he's playing within what the game allows, and in LEL you always say players should play in the way that's fun to them. ;-)
He's not trolling. He's just fully gone to the non-meta dark side of the force. Lol.
I want this man in exploding kings imagine the memes he would pull on everyone lol
SI
OK, i used to only like low elo legend videos but now i also love "T90 gets picked on by unorthodox players" videos.
Biry's problem is that he doesn't know when to stop with those crazy strategies and start playing like a normal, more meta oriented person. At the time 14:04 of the video he was ten villagers ahead. At that time he must have realized that he had already done enough damage and returned all those villagers to work on their economy. He would have reached the Castle Age much sooner and I'm sure he would have ended up winning the game.
Greetings.
That would have worked, but if he wanted to end the game right away, at 14:30, you can see he has enough resources to drop a TC right between the towers and T90's TC. As soon as he starts building, T90 probably resigns instantly.
He won enough, winning isn't the most fun for him any more, I imagine.
@@HighLanderPonyYT I was about to point out that -THIS IS A GAME- so the guy just -HAVES FUN-
I love how in a game where the object is to annihilate your opponent, and where scout rushes and M@A rushes are "normal" strategies, people consider this kind of harassment to be rude or dickish. 3 to 5 scouts in my base at feudal age is just as rude and devastating when you don't know what to do. Same same. 🤣
I think the difference is that there are already pre-established builds and strategies you can use to counter scouts and M@A's, whereas this kind of strat is very unorthodox. Dealing with scouts is all about execution, whereas dealing with this kind of strat is all about mental fortitude and sheer willpower
I know people don't expect it, but once you see an enemy villager near your base you should react, you have between 10 and 15 villagers and the enemy between 1 and 5. If you let him wall your lumbercamp or take you out of your wood it is all about execution. The mental fortitude and willpower is only needed if you let him take you out of your wood. For that to happen your opponent had to outplay you massively in vill fight or your response was weak, like when you react to a 4 or 5 scout rush with 1 spear and end losing a whole woodline because of a poor reaction.
The same thing that happens with this strat happens when you let someone tower your base in feudal and end having no gold or wood, or when the opponent goes up early and denies your gold with army. You know you are in disadvantage, you know you did something wrong, you know it will be hard to respond accordingly at that point; after all, resource control is the core of this game
Every villager fight is horrible.
@@DaddyMouse So your argument is just, biry does bad because he is way more anoying than average strats
@@gianfrancoarezo1859 The issue is that Biry used Berbers for this. His 5 fast vils will beat 10 normal vils with micro.
It's not inherently overpowered but uncompetitive. Laming the trees is a real twist of the knife too.
This play style requires a lot of creativity to pull off, and also a lot of creativity to defend. Even if you don’t adopt this strategy, I think playing these games out is good to keep you on your toes. That said, there were numerous times where I’d have resigned. Well played T90.
I think is necesary for the game that this kind of players exist, it helps only-metaplayers improve in new ways to handle stress during the game and creating new defensive strategies. Also, this kind of players creating new strategies help the game not beein repetitive, if there are only meta strategies it would be always the same and the same, kind of boring. It's creative and funny. He just do it for fun and for finding new strategies with the game resources. You always handle him very well that makes you his father, he recognize that you are better and he isn't toxic. It's just his style, and thats what takes him there, at your level.
With estimates of "Roughly 1 food per 17 seconds" if we start from the point where you have all 8 sheep inside the mill 1:55 (in game), and count up to when you asked how much food was brought by the bonus, 30:17 (in game), then you have brought around 836 food. Just a bit more if we consider you put initial sheeps earlier than that.
If we count up to the end of the game 37:00, then you have brought 990 food. (Round up to 1k food counting the food brought when you didnt have all 8 sheep in the mill yet)
Uh, check your math. 1 food per 17 seconds over 28min 22 sec is only 100 food
@@nathanfranks1476 That is per sheep, and there were 8 of them in the mill so 100x8
and all that without a vill working for it and to top it off, you have extra berries. Really good bonus.
@@Megiago Thats enough free food to go imp. Very useful indeed. I also love those extra berries in nomad maps. Just the most secure start even if unlucky with spot.
This video will inspire future annoying players to try strategies it sure did inspired me
same :D
11
I need to practise these arts.
Im also going to try this now. Lets go berbers
This also teaches a lot about knowing when to stop laming. If opponent had gone fair game after having 5+ villagers lead he would have won easily
come to the dark side :D 11
Such an awesome game. Thanks for pausing and explaining things because I would've been lost without it! Also, his style is quite creative. It's nice to see a more "chess-like" game structure with traditional strategies, but thinking outside the box and doing crazy things is good for both players every once in a while (IMO).
Im in love with this man
This is what I think of when I think AoE2, it isn't toxic, it's just a different way of seeing the game.
This game is one of the best I've ever seen as far as execution is concerned for the both of you. You dug down deep and just stayed in the game.. so much respect for that. React, react, react.. the APM must have been insane for both of y'all.
This is the finest cheese that have been cultivated so far. You gotta apreciate the dignity of the exotic arts that is presented here.
I think the opportunity for going unorthodox strategies keeps the game interesting. Occasionally I go full feudal and make the game messy (1150 elo). It can turn out to be a really fun game adapting to uncommon situations.
I'm 900 ELO, and I ran into the same strategy online a couple weeks ago, much less refined than this guy here, sure, but I'm still quite proud of myself for keeping calm and dealing with it. For me, finding another wood line further away was key.
"Just resign and play an actual player" - I love the salt even while casting the recording. Players like Biry are a nightmare to play against but very entertaining to watch.
if you know the straggler tree laming is coming, you could build 1-3 palisades beside the tree to block the farm placement. not great but it would be a 3-9 wood investment to save upto 100 wood. I guess you could partly build them to refund them later.
Who saw the title and thought “oh no I hope it’s not me”
Who saw the title and thought “finally I’m in a T90 vid”
He really likes you and always denotes that you are cool about all his strategies (you may guess some pople aren't 11) and that you win most of the times. That's why he calls you daddy, because in spanish "being the son" of someone implies that that someone is better, more experienced or has something to teach.
I also want to add that he sees hoang like a master but he isn't like him. Biry has very good micro (his vill micro is remarkable) and a nice toolbelt of strategies, and one of them is playing meta (though most people only know him for the weird plays). That makes him even more dangerous because he can adapt depending on the player, matchup and decide when to go a specific strat on a specific game, on a specific moment of the game or even when to switch from one strat to another in the middle of the game; and that is what i think he did when he douched you. He realized that his vill rush wasn't and wouldn't work the same after you built a lumbercamp and walled in your villagers and had to do something fast to prevent reacting time for you and so a snowball. He had to wait for to wait for the 100% uptime while you were in feudal already and could build towers and archers. What can stop that or give him time? A douche! A douche could cause lots of problems to your already fragile wood marker. Also, after all the time and resources he wasted on his aggression he NEEDED the fight to be on your base.
Besides that, I wanted to mention that he knows how to play meta, he just prefers to play weirdly and to enjoy the game. On a recent tournament he played against Capoch (3-2 for Capoch) and Capoch himself told on his stream after someone in chat said something negative about his playstyle "He was the player that made me struggle the most". Sometimes when that topic comes on his stream he says that he just likes to play on a way he has fun and where matches don't get too repetitive. And if he played meta all the time and not just some games he would lose the thrill of playing the game, and that is what made me love both your and his channel. It's all about laughing and having a good time :)
There are lots of ways of playing the game and we all can apply them as Biry does. He learns when playing against people and from replays and that is something I admire about him. He always gives credit when he sees someone doing something weird and tries adjusting it to his playing like he did with Fulgor, Survivalist, Sitaux, Semur, Rubenstock and people from the Microsoft Zone.
The most inspiring thing about this topic is that some of the strategies (maybe most?) weren't discovered to this day and some of them were used in the old days when meta was different and disappeared as players left the game. We can scavenge old videos or posts on old forums and find something really valuable!
By the way, sorry for the long comment and all the parentheses (I deleted some of them [not these 11]), I really like this topic and I am truly grateful to Biry and T90 for their content
Biry is a super cool dude, always hyped, great admirer of all AOE2 players, casters, etc. Always saying that he plays that way because he gets bored with meta. When he loses he never tilts and always says gg! Really fun and wonderful player. Spanish community loves him. Oh and he knows some english so he has a repertoire of spanglish expressions such as "daddy" etc. showing respect/fun comments to whom he plays aganist with
You defend it by placing palisades on each side of the stragglers and build them at least 1%
imagine our scene arives at a point were it is normal to quick wall f***ing straggler trees...
I think placing one palisade in front of the straggler would be more effective since they would have to get in TC range to place any building in the tree and you only use one palisade per tree
@@eRic-hr3yl true, true.
@@eRic-hr3yl I think diagonal gates still work. I made a test against the AI and sometimes the vill just doesn't want to build them but it works
You see .. this is what I love about the community and content be s he are, I watch biry on a regular basis and found super creative his trick and with this answer ... Mam good move, smart
Here in Argentina (and all Latin America, I guess) to be someone's "daddy" ("papá" in spanish) is a sports slang that means to be super ahead of him in the wins/loses record. Biry uses it joking about you almost always winning the matches you play against each other.
I was rooting for you but the game was amazing! I didn't know half the stuff we see here was possible! Thank you T90, for bringing all these stuff.
The straggler tree lame with the farm was inspiring. I wanna try it now
It is 2 AM here. Perfect time to sleep watching T90 videos. 👀
I would say that players like Biri raise the skill ceiling. I huge part of AoEII is recognising and adapting to, or coming up with and deploying, an enormously wide array of different strategies. Nuking strategies like this one into the ground would be artificially limiting the variety of play and skill ceiling; and let's not forget, as annoying as it is to play against, _watching_ a crazy bizarre play like a TC drop being executed to its maximum potential is just absolutely beautiful and hilarious.
It's likely part of the popularity of the strategy is because it's weird and silly _but it can work really well,_ which would also explain why it's not that common among the top 100 best players' games as opposed to the 2100 ELO. There's ways around it.
That said, these kinds of things do still need to be balanced - if it's by a ways the _most_ useful strategy to be used, it'll naturally limit the variety of play as well. At the top level, people don't tend to choose a worse strategy just because it's different from what everybody else is using (just look at the Masters of Arabia tournament last year, where nearly every single game involved some kind of Men-at-Arms rush, with an Archer follow-up). The fact that it's all over the place, even among 2k1 players, means that while it's hard to pull off effectively, it's _maybe_ just a _little bit_ too powerful at the moment. In a situation like this, it's likely that tweaking a single variable by ±10% will fix the issue.
Completely fine to play this way, players should be prepared for the unpredictable instead of only tunnel visioning preparation for meta moves. Very entertaining, thanks for uploading it.
As a lowish elo player I would have placed my lumber camp very far from my base after the enemy denies my first lumber camp so that he can't find it. Even if I have to walk across the map it's so much better than to get tower dropped in the woodline continuously. (The obvious downside, though, is that I would have fewer villagers protetcting my base in villager wars.)
Also, T90, as you say all the time: If you get attacked the best thing you can do is to counter attack. You eventually did, but maybe could have been a bit earlier.
But anyway, great game! I really enjoy watching these chaotic matches in which Biry and Rubenstock flip the standard flow of the game upside down and sideways. I know playing these matches are a different thing but they sure are entertaining.
Honestly love watching and playing these types of games from time to time. You could place a palisade wall behind the stragglers to block the farms too.
I love watching your instinctive panic clicking during rewatch. It's like a passenger in a car trying to pump the non existent brakes
When he first started running around your base I would have waited until his annoying units were of the left side of the base and I would have snuck a couple of villagers to the right corner and tried getting wood and gold over in the corner while he's too busy being an a'hole inside your base. That way you'd have some resources that aren't being disturbed. As long as he didn't notice of course. Would have took really good timing.
This is the basis of my preferred strategy: as I create villagers, I scatter them all over the map - 1 woodcutter here, 2 there, 2 gold miners at this one, another 2 at that one, and so on. This way, my opponent has to constantly scout all over the map hunting out stray villagers, and I build multiple redundancy into my resource gathering to boot.
@@Mystikan that's just terrible, you're not only wasting resources in multiple camps but also having vills wasting time walking to wherever yo send them unprotected
On high level games that works only for a little time.
Players deny resources so you won't produce or build something. Once they see you producing units or building something you shouldn't have because of a resource they think they're denying they will start scouting and will find your villagers. I see it all the time when Biry or Tatoh are live or when someone is playing against Hoang and tries to deny his gold. Once they see the market prices changing or siege being produced they start looking for the secondary or neutral piles of gold. Those players under pressure know that they will probably be spotted but sometimes that is the only way out of the pressure for a period of time so they take that risk anyways
I'm not experienced, so hopefully this question has a good answer:
Why not just send a group of 6-8 vils to a corner to a hidden woodline? Especially on arabia, there are plenty of wood lines, and when you're being vil rushed, it's unlikely your opponent is focused on scouting the map.
You know it's been a wild, unorthodox game when at 19:00, both players are still feudal, the eco K/D is 18 to 5, and the player with more vil losses actually has 4 MORE vils total.
To the question at the end, I'd liken it to demos in Rocket League (which I remember T90 saying he used to play). A player on a team intentionally going for a lot of demos can be very tilting, and people often complain about it, but it's a part of the game and it's not impossible to stop. I think it's fair game and you just have to keep your head and focus on your win condition.
This got me stressed out only by watching it. I can't imagine actually playing this game. Duh.
thats weird cuz sometimes when i make a farm on a straggler tree the tree stays on the farm until they finish but if they move it disappears some weird shit
If I saw the 10 villagers approaching I would just call GG. I don't play the game like this, I refuse to.
Best of the year. Thank you T90. Pls show more games like this.
I would have uninstalled, throw the computer out the window and then legally change my name to Wagabaga Wagaboo and never show my face in public again
Just like the 2nd amendment has those tiny little words; "shall not be infringed", I believe all tactics in AOE2 should be legal. Laming, lying in chat to falsely boost confidence, troll strats, that cute little farm to delete straggler trees.. This game is an undeniable masterpiece, bugs and all, don't colorblind yourself for the sake of *competition". I'm proud of you for sticking in and pulling out a V here, T90. Great work.
@@blaubeer8039 valid points
Your best solution would have probably been to walk some villagers away to get wood further away.
By the time he realizes and scouts you his forward vills will have wasted so much time.
11:51 i LMAO ahhaha ''we vill fight" XDDD i'm cryin
17:04 you're so hilarious. omg
The tower he was building omg that was a freakin wise move lmao
Build palasade walls next to stragler trees, so he cannot place farms
Es buena esa
What’s this about “laming” trees? I have been laming my own trees because they get in the way while I’m building and I want to be able to see better. (yes I am a LEL.)
Are there any recs of this guy playing against Hoang?
"Delete enemy's straggler trees" is something I will be doing from now on :D
25:47 what you're describing sounds like the killer in the Wolf Creek movie... The way he's talking, It's detached from the reality of what he's doing "to you".
This felt hilariously personal. I'm not sure how strategic it was vs. adlibbed based on the current situation though
tbh if you think is annoying, *remember theres lamers, drop tc, clown closed map bois and more*
and no, the tower rush t90 for me is like "another day in the office"
t90 - I'm a fan and I've been following you for ages. One thing I can suggest - It would TILT pro players when you keep claiming YOU'RE JUST A CASTER. When you cast a game yes, BUT when you actually PLAY the game - you're a player just like all others.
Good for you remaining calm and ending with the W at the end. GG WP
I think everything he did was fair game. Apart from the straggler tree delete I have done most of this stuff on socotra. So much more difficult on other maps though
I think straggler trees work that way so people can build farms without waiting for the trees to reach 0. Every player does that all the time with their own farms, letting the enemy do that on you is more of a player mistake than a game-breaking mechanic. There are 3 useable woodlines that can't be deleted, that you need to protect as much as any other resources like forward berries or gold. The game is about controlling resources after all. That's why everyone talks about eco as much as about military.
The "oh they deleted the thing my economy runs on with no risk to theirself" works on several common strategies like when people reach feudal earlier and denies the opponent's gold, or when people go tower rushing, or almost any other strat in the game. I think people need to start thinking about dark age as an age for itself, not only as the age where we hurry to reach feudal first. We all should know that there's risk in every age, even when 99% of the players goes through dark age almost mechanically
The key here is that deleting straggler trees only has an impact if you let 1 to 5 villagers win against 10 to 15 villagers when fighting for wood. T90 lost his wood because he didn't scout the enemy (then no short walls on wood) and because he didn't want to micro his vills or didn't want to take the risk of losing a vill. Only after losing that fight or ignoring the enemy vills farm deleting straggler trees becomes an issue, and surely has an impact but it doesn't work instantaneously. That takes time as straggler trees almost everytime (if not always) spawn on all sides of the tc; it gives a long enough time to react and long time to delete all of them even when the situation is ideal for the aggressor, that is when the defender messed up and hit every single straggler tree.
Straggler tree deleting becomes deadly only if there's no reaction from the defender even after seeing the vill deleting the first tree. The defender can always fight the villager or villagers with higher numbers, after all the enemy eco is much worse. There are more options, like building a pallisade in front of a straggler, fighting while the lumbercamp is being walled, destroying those pallisades or even wasting the aggressor's wood (already has bad eco) if he is quick enough destroying the farm with the tc.
Maybe then you tell me that he can use multiple vills to destroy all at the same time. Again, needs the defender to hit every single tree to do that and to do nothing after being taken out of wood, and also the aggressor surely needs a nice micro to perform that.
It's the defender that has the control over his straggler trees, and getting them deleted is only the last nail of a coffin the defender crafted for himself
@@gianfrancoarezo1859 Some of that may be true if the villagers were the same speed, but doing this with Berbers left no way for T90 to fight his opponent if they just want to run in fast, place a farm and leave. The only counter play is to waste wood he already doesn't have meaning that there is no legitimate counterplay to this tactic which is what makes it OP and unfair. If T90 had a realistic way to force a vil fight that would be a different story, but this whole tactic is almost impossible to stop with the faster vils allowing his opponent to simply walk in at will and walk out at will.
Again, that only matters if you let the snowball run. He needs to take a fight to take you out of your lumbercamp, you shouldn't lose with more villagers, even when he can runaway and be annoying. The problem is that people is ultra-conservative when the matter is eco and won't take a risk of losing a vill, or idling some of them.
The berber player won't fight if his villagers are low and less than the enemy, then he will have more idle eco than you, will have to return his villagers home AND will be up so late.
If you let him take your lumbercamp from you of course he will be on his ideal scenario and will have advantage over the enemy. It works the same way when you let a goth player boom and can get the spam rolling. Mainly low elo players complain about it, because better players adapt and punish.
In this case people should do the same and know how to react to something like that. I know few people play this way, but that's exactly how meta changes over time
I think biry got to 2k+ playing mostly normal with one account too, he just love this things
"i killed that vill, I figured I need to get stone" : the slippery slope...
good to see that he's just a very good spirited (and ruthless) pro player and not some ahole who gets sick satisfaction from ruining the game for other people. he's basically a troll with a ton of technical and mechanical skill.
Idea to defend the trees: Place some Pallisades or other things around it, the main thing is that the space for farms isn't enough. Where no farms can be built, no trees are stolen.
saving that mill was crucial so that you had constant access to food.
btw i think biry's gameplay is great and actually enjoyable, at least for me as a viewer 11, because after all, all he did was executing the strat that the game provided or hinted in its mechanics and design, so it is valid and legal, therefore should not be punished or banned. when everyone is used to these "orthodox style" gameplay where both players develop a regular city, make regular army, and take regular fights, biry's unexpected and "unorthodox" gameplay actually brings a new way of understanding to this game, and a new fresh air of entertainment to us viewers.
I'd watch a couple of game series on this matchup
Nothing wrong with him playing like that, it's funny as hell
This is the best strategy I've ever seen and I love seeing players do stuff like this.
t90 civ picking most op civ this match. SMH my head
Is this a new language?
"I'm having some bad wood problems" - it happens more and more the older you get, sadly.
Biry trully admires you, he calls you "daddy" because, for a long time, you allways won against him, as a father does with his son.
my go to when people play like this is to not be afraid to evac the base and to build a tower with cav or archers out of view. then when they deny the tower you gambit the vills to kill their vills. then youre just up and they lost their momentum.
So apparently sheep/pigs are at 3.5 food/min per each garrisoned accordng to a reddit post. So if you keep them alive in the mill for ~20-25 minutes you'll probably be around even with where you would have been by gathering them earlier, since 90 food (assuming some rot)/3.5 fpm is 25.7 minutes, but there would also be villager gather time to factor in which makes this a difficult comparison.
You could also think of 8 herdables in a mill as a ~1.5 farm's worth of gather rate all game. A farmtoria, if you will.
@t90 you build a single palisade right beside the tree (you don't have to finish it, obv), so enemy buildings can't be placed on top of it
I just absolutely love that type of sht lol
Tower rusher with every fibre of my body
23:55 the MAA tower rush with poles just feels so natural. That civ was made for that. I climbed from 900 elo to 1100 just because of that build. People in that elo range just can’t deal with it. And by the time they are starting to recover and killed the forward there are 60 cavalier in his base melting down the TCs. I think the best decision would be to attack me in castle age when I make literally zero military and ignore the forward but most of the players don’t make that decision. They just let me boom with perfect farms and then spam ridiculously cheap cavalier out of 8 stables in the back of my base.
I know its mighty late, but for the straggler tree laming if you place a palisade foudation build it a little next to them they cant build farms to delete them.
I know a guy who plays similarly, although it's more that he really experiments with unorthodox strategies in order to destroy the meta and then outplay in the chaos. His AOE handle is Sik
When he dropped towers on your woodline and you said "you didn't know what else to do". There was like one layer of trees left - would it be feasible to delete them with same trick he did to your stragglers? Start chopping, build a palisade and your vills are safe and ready to relocate.
I think you can't do that with trees that are part of a forest
Forest trees can't be built over.
@@undefined6341 Oh, good to know. Thanks for the clarification. :)
@T90 You can build palisades around your trees to stop the farm trick.
It's actually a strategy played by Sitaux quite often, Biry started playing it after him but played it a bit more all in ofc.
- Rushed that hard, start maybe sneaking vils off to a distant woodline where they won't be harassed?
I like watching games like this more than 'standard' games lol. Well done and thanks for all the explanation.
T90 talking about noobs: "Look how cute! Chopping straggler trees, they don't know what they're doing!"
T90 playing: "This absolute grandmaster is denying me precious resources by deleting my straggler trees!"
Biry doesnt speak english, he loves antimeta stuff, he plays for fun and thats the way he enjoys the game. When he said daddy its for an argentinian expression, not bad intended.
He basically plays like how i'd assume every high level player would do, as it denies so much and allows him to build up in peace
I don't know how viable that is build-order-wise, but you could place houses left and right next to the straggler trees to protect them
Great attitude towards a difficult opponent. Tons of respect.
What I learned from this Video:
DON'T Laugh until the game is OVER.
What is that website where you can see that which civ is good against other civs?
Could you put two palisade next to your stragglers on both sides to keep from getting lamed?
If this game were a restaurant, the health department would have shut this place down for being so messy and untidy.
Birys strategies are tilting as fuck but so god damned well thought out you gotta respect them.
He copies hoang playstyle Is not a big deal, i mean he cant play castle/imp
7:00 You can place a palisade wall next to the tree so he can't place the farm
Absolutely hilarious. Very very cheesy. At least he is keeping the game fresh!
Counter-counter-meta game!
I think this kind of things is what keep the game alive. new ways to play, making uncomfortable pro players, and force them to learn new strategies every day.
"There's no wrong threats, only wrong answers." -Dave Price
why is your overlay different than mine? is this not the definitive edition? or is mine not updated or modded?
He ran out of wood when he TC dropped you, so he couldnt repair it after destroying your tower... thats when he lost it. He knew that your mill was key also, but still couldnt save his tc
Can you defend the farms by partially walling your stragglers?
holy shit. this dude looses 20 vils and still wrecks the other one. this is at the same time impressive and satisfactory to watch
All's fair in love and war. Nothing seperates his strategy from the meta aside from popularity. Love your content T90.