The Doctor Who Companion That Never Was
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Rose, Martha, Penny... Wait, Penny? This is the story of how Donna almost didn't return, and the Tenth Doctor almost travelled with someone else!
Additional voices by Timothy K @ThatsChroma
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Thanks for being nice to me :)
I haven't read the book... or borrowed it... I'm terrible at reading. I never seem to find the time. So I had no idea about Penny! I know that this type of thing has likely happened numerous times in the show's history - important characters that are drafted in and out of existence at the swipe of a pen, the scrumple of paper into the bin. What is lovely is hearing you breathe Penny into existence here and now. Turn Left never felt more meaningful, and it's one of the most meaningful episodes of NuWho.
I'm glad they didn't have
Noble
I feel "the companion that never was" would have been a great for a storyline, maybe someone who the Doctor was supposed to meet but never did and would cause a time paradox
Isn't Sally Sparrow from the episode 'Blink' a companion that never was?
I still think it's obvious (to me anyway) that Amy and Rory were based on Sally and Larry.
@@RicStorm616 I view Sally the same way as Astrid, a one time companion who only lasts an episode, but one could say Sally was a companion that never was because she had never properly met the doctor other than when she gave him the script
That's a great idea tbh
It's really interesting seeing all the reused stuff that eventually got folded back into Donna, even "Turn Left"
I like how the way Catherine explains what she felt after being in doctor who for the first time was similar to how Donna explains how she felt after the first encounter with the doctor
Penny’s grandfather role was initially turned into Donna’s dad, even having scenes filmed with the original actor from The Runaway Bride, who sadly passed away from cancer, soon after. This led to the grandfather role being reinstated for Doona, and the wonderful Bernard Cribbins’ unrelated guest character from the previous Christmas Special, being brought back and retconned as Donna’s grandad. Wonderful choices.
Hearing Penny’s and her mother’s original outline, they certainly sound like Donna and Sylvia, as per The Runaway Bride, don’t they?
Honestly I'm glad that we got Catherine Tate back in Doctor Who, Donna Noble is my favorite companion of the RTD era hands down.
My least
And Catherine Tate is going to return with the Fourteenth Doctor (played by David Tennant)
Could be fun if Russell brought the character back - but someone who had a whole future of travelling with the Doctor laid out, until the timeline was changed
That would be amazing; a fantastic reference for people who'd read the book!
Before I watched your video I would have guessed Sally Sparrow from Blink. She would have been amazing
Now I'm imagining a tiny wimey type story where the doctor encounters a companion that ended up erased from history.
"The Writer's Tale" is a screenwriter's dream! I'm so glad Russell saw the value in inspiring other writers as he was inspired by Doctor Who. Great video Josh :D
Great video, I'm surprised you didnt mention that Wilf was a rather last minute addition to that episode too given the failing health of the actor who played Donna's Dad and his dialogue being moved on to Wilf.
Sure sounds like Penny, instead of being forgotten, has elements of her story scattered amongst multiple companions with multiple Doctors.
So in a way, she got to live on far longer than she would have in any single companion.
It'd be hilarious if we looked back in fifty years and found out 'Penny' was Jodie Whittaker or something.
Even the name was used for that reporter tied to the chair most the episode
i think Jodie would've been far to young at the time to play a character in her mid 30s. Although she did audition for a role in series 5, however she has never said what character
That could've been possible when you look at The Timeless Children
Could Big Finish do something with this concept? a 'what if' series? still fascinating how the development process for a television series always changes when you least expect it.
Big Finish does have a "what-if" series called Unbound which features stories ranging from what if the Doctor had never left Gallifrey to what if the Doctor had chosen to destroy the Daleks at the end of "Genesis of the Daleks".
After reading "The Writers Tale" for the first time YEARS AGO at my local library, I was fascinated at the "could-be" companion! Spoke about it in my merch video not to long ago funnily enough. It was great watching you visualize all these back and forth emails! Excellent work as ever!
Damn you made a scrapped character into a full on drama in 10 minutes. Good Video
I thought this was going to be about 10th's Rory. Because in The Family of Blood's outtake, when the Doctor was giving Martha instructions for when he's human, he mentions "that thing Rory keeps going on about" or something in that effect.
It was definitely just a crewmember since that part of the footage was supposed to be skipped when Martha presses forward on the recording. But still funny to think that 10th had his own Rory Notwilliams.
I hope Penny shows up in Big Finish one day, or perhaps the comics. She deserves a second chance.
Great video. Also, I can't believe that saying "showrunner Russell T Davies" currently is NOT outdated at all.
I think from Christmas 2007 to when David left is the modern 'Imperial phase' of the show, in the UK. And it's interesting that this isn't necessarily a repeated phenomenon outside of Britain, because it's dependent on - without referencing something else entirely - the cultural mood of the time. But it was enormous and fun and we'll all be glad we were around for it.
It’s funny how the abandoned dome plot for Penny’s first story is also reminiscent of The Woman Who Fell to Earth! I wonder how Russell would’ve written a Tim Shaw-type character
The great advantage of being old and slightly out of the loop is that it's now down to the younger (and, frankly, more functional) fan brains to take over these kinds of investigations. And it's always a goldmine. With the series ongoing for - ever - it's likely we'll have all sorts of stories and revelations to come. Yes, even when you're nearly 50... 12 days and counting for some of us...
Heya great video. April Walker is a bit of a sadder story than you said though. From my memory, Jon Pertwee actually just didn’t like she was too tall and he felt he would’ve be able to put his arm round her and be protective, when she’d ALREADY been contracted.
Oof! I didn’t know it was like that
@@JoshSnares a youtuber called fantom managed to track her down to do an interview. It’s quite interesting in itself.
@@JoshSnares Did Pertwee have that much 'chemistry' with anyone..?! Of all the classic Doctors, he is the one who gets on my tits the most - arrogant, puffed-up, vain beyond belief, and his 'Doctor' was just as bad. [see what I did there???] Even Tom Baker at his most belligerent and cruel [and he was very cruel to some of his companions], was nowhere near as awful onscreen - even when he was clearly feed-up and ready to leave, as he was for the last 3yrs..!!! But then I think Colin Baker, and his Doctor, were very misunderstood - a view I know you share, and would be far more popular if he'd not been sabotaged at so many levels by the production team.
@@paulosborne6517 - Pertwee had great chemistry with Katy Manning. It was clear that this was the type of actress he felt comfortable with. Young, pretty, petite and someone he could protect and look over.
Pertwee didn't vibe with Caroline John (who played Liz Shaw) and the two had little on-screen spark. Her departure came as no surprise after one season.
Lis Sladen also worked well with Pertwee but it was clear that he was already checked out of the show at this point as the actor would depart shortly afterwards.
@@paulosborne6517 Quite harsh on old Pertwee, but you're entitled to your opinion of course.
Pertwee did have some great chemistry with some. Katy Manning and Roger Delgado are two of the most - Delgado's death being one of the reasons Pertwee wanted to leave and Manning's another. His chemistry with Manning can be seen when Jo leaves and the Doctor leaves alone, during the Green Death. That scene feels as much Pertwee's heartbreak as the Doctor's.
And all the way through the Doctor / Master rivalry, you believe they were old friends and now rivalries.
Pertwee also eventually had a warm chemistry with Nick Courtney. It didn't start that way but it eventually grew so. Which is how the characters were on screen too.
About April Walker and Liz Sladen... to be honest, his chemistry with Liz isn't what it was with Jo Grant, but it is still tangible. I can't see how someone can watch the closing scenes of Planet of the Spiders and argue it isn't.
And again, with Troughton. Originally they didn't get on but by the time of The Five Doctors they had become friends and the chemistry there is on full show.
Pertwee is an underrated actor but it is also true to say that what happened off camera very much informed how he presented his Doctor and his relationships. Perhaps moreso than any other Doctor. If he is a trifle arrogant, obstinate or unlikeable may be true, but he is also a showman, charismatic and - at the time - main stream popular. Indeed if not for Pertwee's Doctor, Who would have been cancelled in 1970. The 'Quatermass' style reboot after Troughton's ratings had fallen anysmally, was a last ditch attempt to salvage the series. That it worked is down to four reasons - one was the ensemble cast, all well cast. Two was the increased special effects. Three was that the 1970 season had three of the best stories ever in Who history (as well as one I feel is underrated but there we are!) and finally, four - Pertwee. Troughton may have been the 'actors actor' and has aged better but Pertwee was mainstream, a showman in a time of light entertainment's rise, and brought the show to the best success it had at the time.
He's not my favourite Doctor. UNIT stories, for me, have dated terribly, and some are a chore (The Mutants) or overrated (pick a Peladon), but I don't think we can overlook his period as quintessential. In terms of Pertwee's chemistry with others, if he had none, he wouldn't have succeeded. He needed that chemistry to work, and that's what Katy Manning, Liz Sladen, Nick Courtney and Roger Delgado had with him in spades.
The April Walker thing? I don't know. True or not, probably is, but we got the best companion ever out of it. I'll take Sarah Jane over anyone any day.
I love that that episode was like 50% Partners in Crime but also contained Turn Left!
Also I went "That sounds like the Simpson's Movie"!
Fantastic video! Feels lucky that we still got Wilfred. And "You light a candle. I'll light a cigarette." is RTD gold. Ty 🤣
I thought that Sally Sparrow from the episode “Blink” had potential of being the Doctor’s companion.
What a great video with all the 15 and Ruby Christmas Special news! This sounds like a companion that would’ve been loved by classic series fans!
The fact that the Doc was still broken hearted about Rose and therefore hurt Martha led us to the classic line “I just want a mate.” Followed by the retort “You’re not mating with me sunshine”. I do not think the character could have embarked with someone else (Penny) who he.sparked with because of Rose. Whereas Donna was like the girl next door with David Tennant and it was relaxing to watch.
Fascinating to see this part of the book (and the show's history) brought to life so vibrantly here. Thanks, Josh!
I honestly thought this was going to be about Sally Sparrow because I think I read that Moffat or RTD initially wanted her to be a companion but the actress didn’t want to.
Great video as always Josh!!! Even got me a little emotional at the end over a fictional character never making it on screen, but I wouldn't want to change 10/Donna for anything!
My theory is that the actress in question was Ruth Wilson. If you look up her filmography during the time season 4 was filmed and picture her in the rough outline they had for the character, she feels like a match.
There must have been something in the zeitgeist about putting glass domes over towns because it was also a Stephan King story
Love the use of Windows XP and Outlook Express! 😄 Fascinating story nicely retold here!
i would love to see rtd writing a lost stories for big finish of penny's first episode
I couldn’t tell you how I came about having a copy of The Writer’s Tale, but I did. I was around 10 or 11 when I started flicking through it, what caught my eye was the Shadow Proclimation draft with all the returning faces. But I started reading Russel and Ben’s emails and kept coming across the name Penny not knowing who she was supposed to be. As I worked back in the book I realised who Penny was, part of me wishes we got to see Penny made real on the screen, but I’d be lying if I wasn’t elated at the reintroduction of Donna. She has become such an important focal point in the realm of Doctor Who, I wonder what would’ve been if we’d got our fourth Russel companion and what she would’ve become in the wider universe of the show.
I love the whole story of Penny, and watching it be so succinctly and beautifully told in this video was brilliant.
I had no idea this even happened. Thank you so much for bringing these stories to life and I will be checking out the book!
Another "companion that never was" was Ray from Delta and the Bannermen in s24. With Bonnie Langford changing her mind constantly about when to leave during the season, they had more time to develop a companion and decided to go with what would eventually become Ace instead.
I’m so glad the algorithm led me to this channel. Whether I know the topic of the video already (like the ones about the missing episodes) or I’ve never heard of it before like this one, I have a blast.
That episode-that-never-was honestly sounds better than most of Partners in Crime, imo. ('Most of' because I love the Doctor-Donna dynamic too much to consider it a totally lost cause).
I thought this was going into a completely different -- and detailed -- direction: Michelle Ryan's Lady Christina from Planet of the Dead. I know there were rumors about it, but she instead decided to do Bionic Woman instead.
It sounded like they also spread parts of Penny into her character as well. Posh, similar personality to stand up to the Doctor, and yet she also had a bit of turmoil in life.
I've always wondered what would've been if Penny had materialised but tbh I'm glad we got Donna instead. Love the orange lighting in this video btw!
Wow, wow, very much enjoyed it.
Would you ever do a video of the until stories of SJA series 5, part 2? That's never happened?
It's on my list!
@@JoshSnares Yes please to this one! I'd love to see your style of video covering this! 🙌
We need to get penny the big finish box set she deserves
These videos only get better and better each time.
coming home to a new video of yours is a blessing so keep it up!!
👍👍
Critics definitely would have picked up on the unintentionally shared dome idea. A good thing to omit, in hindsight.
This was one of my favourite stories from The Writer's Tale. Brilliant bloody book. Excellent retelling Josh!
Without fail, your videos always make me tear up a lil with appreciation over this show. It's quite silly, really. Thank you for your ever amazing content!!
🥰🥰🥰🥰
Another great video Josh! I recently got a copy of the writers tale but haven't gotten around to reading it yet, this video has definitely given me the drive to! Super interesting hearing about what could have been from the people that were there themselves
Fantastic video, even having read The Writers Tale, I still didn’t fully fully acknowledge that Penny was a companion that never was’ 😊
I wonder if any of RTDs unused material will make it into Series 14?
The light a cigarette line made me like
Another superlative video, Josh. I concur The Writer's Tale is a truly engaging and engrossing book, a real must-read for any true Who fan.
Thank you for this wonderful insight into DW
Before hearing the name Penny I swore you were going to mention Sally Sparrow as she was being considered as becoming a companion too at some stage
It's amazing to think about how many potential characters and storylines there have been that never came into fruition for one reason or another.
Great vid, I really wish I knew who RTD saw as Penny Carter though.
Russell could still revive the idea of Penny Carter. It’s never too late. She could be the Fifteenth Doctor’s (Ncuti Gatwa) next companion after Ruby Sunday (Millie Gibson).
Love that penny was actually this one time companion that the doctor took on a trip or two took her back to earth but mess up the time and the mystery woman the boyfriend was with was actually penny herself
I never knew that about the original casting for Sarah Jane, that's super interesting, I love learning new things like that
Do we have any best guesses for who might have been thought of? People who know more about the BBC at that time and the actors that were around the team? I just can't begin to picture what Penny might have looked like in their minds…
I really liked the way you presented the video, reminds me of those crime documentaries, good work!
Did anyone else notice that the description of Penny is the now current Donna Noble. Child. Lottery winner...
It's adding up.
“You light a candle, I’ll light a cigarette” is so funny 😅
Informative and a great watch as always Josh. Now to get a copy of that book.
These are so well-made, just wanted to thank you once again for making them Josh, I'll still be here loving them when you hit 100k subs!
Woooot! New Josh Snares vid!
I cannot believe this, I finished reading the book yesterday, the first one anyway, and now you release this, fantastic.
I have that book and I think Penny would be a good companion and hey maybe Russell could have her as a companion during his 2nd era.
A companion that never was reminds me of all the times they had planned or started plans for a Doctor Who movie. The book "The Nth Doctor" is an excellent read that explores several of the attempts to make a Doctor Who movie from Tom Baker's time to the 1990s. Some of the plots involved the Daleks of course, The Cybermen, The Master. Some of the earlier plots and ideas were carried over to later projects and I think some of Paul McGann movie has some ties to some of those earlier plots. One or two of them proposed the idea that The Doctor and The Master were actually brothers, not just Time Lord Academy classmates.
If I had a penny for every time a companion got dropped...
From what we've seen from set pictures. It seems more of Penny's story is being used with Ruby. Ruby has a scene where she is busy with Christmas shopping and walks by the TARDIS.
Seeing Ben Cook again was a blast from the past!
Josh should make a series out of this
Brilliant as always Josh
Wonderful video! Really enjoyed this, cool insight! 🙌
Big finish: are like hold my beer and go off to produce an entire penny carter box set.
They’ll make anything into a boxset 😂
I've made it into a Josh Snares RUclips video!!! I'm over the moon.
it took far too long 💕💕
Love it when I find out something about Dr. Who I had no idea about! Keep doing more of these, Josh!
This is so interesting to hear, I never knew that there was going to be a different companion for the Doctor before they changed it to Donna.
Penny's opening story sounds actually good, finding out her boyfriend cheated on her, walking past the TARDIS and meeting (and falling for) the Doctor on the large spaceship over the city. I kind of want to see that happen now! 😀
I'm glad they brought back Donna was the Doctor's companion for the show, but I do feel it's a shame that Penny was made from a possible companion to a minor character for the first episode of series 4 (I didn't even know that woman tied to the chair was originally Penny, but different).
🥂To the companion that never was. 😟
The only problem I have with it, is the romantic hint/element
Donna was refreshing as a platonic companion after Rose and Martha, so I don't think we would have wanted another series of Tennant flirting with his companion
I commend you on your research and dedication. As always, a really interesting and enjoyable video. Many thanks. 🥰
A giant dome. (Under The Dome by S.King?) or Welcome to our village please invade carefully (with Peter Davison, Cally from Blake 7 and Jen from the IT crowd in the pilot episode)
This is great! I just started reading The Writer’s Tale for the first time in anticipation of RTD’s return! Penny’s tale was interesting!
I imagine there's many things there outside the role of Catherine Tate who was magic as Donna Nobel that could be Penny Carter!, but interestingly that name has been in doctor who before? Wasn't it in an old episode of Tom Bakers time not as companion but as a friend of one his companions think Pennellopy was her full name she a friend of Tegans? And what of another Carter that of the one in Unite any relation? And there is agent Carter in Shield to, the actress who played her was in doctor who once.
Shield in Doctor Who that would have been incredibly interesting?
The windows XP with the doomsday wallpaper really helps set the scene
I imagine RTD had that wallpaper! 😂😂
It would be interesting if Russell adapts some of that material for Ruby Sunday. She's not too young to be having a surprise party for a boyfriend who then cheats. It would be pretty cool if Millie Gibson ended up being the one who "walks past the TARDIS"
There's a Big Finish boxset or two to be made here
Great video, Josh!
The companion that never was would actually be a great episode.
Penny was also the name of the "female" android companion in the Doctor Who stage play "Warsmith" in Fratton many years ago. She died in the story.
They where a great team. Possibly the best as the chemistry was always completly platonic.
Damn this was cut together well
The companion after Martha should have been Sally Sparrow from the Blink episode. She was fantastic.
Nice one Josh. I would have never of known about this. Keep these vids going 😎
Absolutely adore this video. Hopefully one day i can summon the coolness you do with that epic background lol! So interesting to hear about all the potentials and would-be’s of who history, especially when some of those elements come back in different ways. Great job!
Great piece of history, thanks for bringing it to light! 👍
I though this was going to be a video on Lady Cristina.
I see David Tennant took some notes from the "Tenth Doctor" from Curse of Fatal Death.
I never knew this, Yu Learn something everyday
Wouldn’t it be interesting if we got an episode titled “Penny” that had some of the elements of Turn Left but basically the premise would be The 14th Doctor which cool enough is David Tennant being held prisoner in his own mind and they could basically Just do the same episode but it was him seeing a different timeline and by the end he realizes and sadly has to escape the mind prison.
Just a random idea I came up with on the spot idk honestly know if it’s a good idea and it definitely won’t happen but it’s an idea
I always consider Sally Sparrow as The Companion We Deserved But Never Got...