Were the Fallschirmjäger overestimated?
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- In this video Dr. Magnus Pahl from the MHM Dresden and I talk about the military effectiveness and operations of the Fallschirmjäger (German Paratroopers) in World War 2, often also called the "Green Devils" / "Grüne Teufel".
Disclaimer: I was invited by Militärhistorische Museum der Bundeswehr Dresden in 2019 & 2021. www.mhmbw.de/
Cover:
Bundesarchiv, Bild 101I-539-0380-15 / Haas / CC-BY-SA 3.0, creativecommon...
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A German prisoner captured by the 16th Infantry Regiment, near Weywertz. Belgium, National Archives Identifier (NAID) 531359, Public Domain
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» SOURCES «
Pahl, Magnus: Monte Cassino 1944: Der Kampf um Rom und seine Inszenierung. Verlag Ferdinand Schöningh: Paderborn, Germany, 2021.
#MilitaryEffectiveness,#GrüneTeufel,#FallschirmJäger
Corrections & Clarifications:
03:43 Dr. Pahl meant the 22nd Infantry Division.
Literally unwatchable
@@lovablesnowman ;)
@@lovablesnowman Naw, you just have to pay attention. Maybe I hear it better because I know how lousy am at multi-tasking and always focus on one thing at a time; if I treated this as a podcast in the background, I wouldn't even hear it, let alone decipher the accents.
I once met a Fj vet who volunteered for every course so he could as it kept him out of combat, he was captured in 1944 in Normandy by the Americans.
He volunteered to clear old German mines ( he had done the courses) to help clean up his” Black status” as a POW allied classification to get released earlier..... he was one smart cookie on how to work a system to his advantage rather than let’s it work you as it is designed... spoke darn good English too.
He was a nice guy to chat too and was very self-effacing, another skill be had learnt to make the best of a situation.
Likely he played me as well... but he was practiced for sure.
Sounds like the kind who should write a book about his life. I would love to read it.
...not that I would believe a word of it.
The fact he had no reason to brag, he noted he was ex Luftwaffe as we spoke of various subjects regarding military matters, it was a good few years back now ..... but his service was largely land fighting and we teased the story out of his war.... he was an interesting guy for sure.
All paratroopers are just light infantry when they hit the ground. Training,morale and reliable kit and resupply are imperitive.
Feet, knees and face with weapons pods are problematic.
Emphasis on the fuckin resupply lol
@@HamburgerTime209 Not necessarily. The FSJ’s didn’t need resupply during the evac of Pizzaboy Mussolini. In n’ out. Like sex.
Light infantry is light infantry! AIRBORNE is a whole different kind of unit that NAPS will never know. AATW!
@lgbtqisahategroup9781 that was a mix of SS Cammandos and Paratroopers.
Also the U.S Airborne Raid on Los Banos didn't need resupply, just needed extraction once the mission was complete.
Article
Talk
The term you were searching for in English is “scrounging.” An ancient and honored military art.
I only know the noun Scrounger from Fallout 4 :D
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized more modern military term would be requisition
Scrounging is a valuable military skill in the New Zealand military.
@@matthewrikihana6818 Mate Scrounging or "Tactically acquiring" as
Lawofimprobability said is a valuable and in some militaries essential skill.... I remember my time with the UN in South Sudan... Lets just say that our gear and weapons were very often "Tactically Acquired" especially the Heavy Gear and Weapons
@@matthewrikihana6818
Not just the Kiwi Military.
I think they performed best, during the Battle of Monte Casino even though they were not deployed as paratroopers. The troops had long time combat expierence and were equipped fairly well.
Just like everything they have to be viewed within the proper context of the specific situation and time period. Not just paint everything with a broad paint brush. We’re talking about many men over the course of Germany’s participation in WW2 across multiple units.
Poor historians and internet keyboard warriors love to generalized and hype/slam things. It’s like saying Italians were terrible soldiers especially in North Africa, when Italian paratroopers bested the British on several occasions. Reality is rarely so simple and simple minded people don’t like that.
Pretty much, right? The 101st considered them serious foes.
Just the fact that they were (and considered themselves) elite soldiers confers an advantage in morale, and troops with high morale operate at a more effective level.
What I am curious about is what the paratroopers thought about never again performing airborne operations after Crete.
@@MarcosElMalo2 They did perform, only in lesser numbers and as reaction forces - like at the Primosole Bridge in Sicily.
Why everyone spells Montecassino as Monte Casino? It was the allied spelling at the time? I'm genuinely curious, as Monte Casino would mean "brothel mountain" in Italian, quite a different meaning lol
@Glen Towler I would agree. The chaotic fighting in Sicily/southern Italy 1943 was much more challenging, and they were able to get through it. The div was also able to recover fast during the german retreat of summer 1944 in Italy.
At times this sounded like the interview was as hard fought as any of the battles discussed but it was very much a privilege to be able to hear from an expert in the field like Dr. Pahl. Thank you very much for these interviews, and for your own work.
I love his Bond villain look!
The biggest problem of the Fallschirmjäger of the early war jumping in, was they they only jumped with light personal weapons, while all heavy weapons were dropped seperately in containers that might not fall where the troops landed. Hence they could be stuck with pistols and SMGs fighting against much better armed troops.
Bingo.
they were not overestimated - they were just not used like they were used to be
the were light infantry which suffered heavy losses against the armored units
but when they were fighting under good condition were the enemy couldnt bring up so many tank they could be effective
You aren't allowed to say objectively true statements like that.
It tarnishes the narrative of "Germans all bad."
A myth of "the green devils" has grown - in the same way that grenadiers were seen as better than normal Heer, yet of course Hitler changed the terminology so all troops became grenadiers for the last year of the war. Many of the better fighters died by the end of 1941 and were replaced by less experienced/trained men.
@@evanroberts2771 what narrative is that? It is generally recognised that the Panzertruppen, Panzergrenadiers, Gebirgsjäger and Fallschirmjäger were excellent troops. Can you show me this narrative of which you write?
@@PalleRasmussen Try every documentary narrated by Guido Knopp.
@@franktower9006 they do not say the Germans were bad soldiers, but that they were to a large extent war criminals- which is not wrong.
What a great interview, with fantastic insights. Well done MHV and Dr. Pahl.
Glad you enjoyed it!
People need to understand that this was the first ever use of parachute operations and therefore was a very steep learning curve. From these beginnings and the hard lessons, the parachute regiments of the present day have grown to be essential weapons of war. The value of these units can be seen by the large use of paratroopers from 1944. Even at that late stage huge major mistakes were made in the use of these units. From small beginnings a fantastic weapon has grown. Most parachute regiments in the world honour these first Fallschirmjäger as pioneers. Not in a political way but recognising their skills and proficiency.
Although troops still train for it, parachute operations are largely a thing of the past in modern military doctrine. It's hugely imprecise and risky and leaves the troops strategically immobile once they hit the ground. Pretty much anything parachutists can do, airmobile troops with transport helicopters can do better. The only niche remaining for parachute operations is special forces making covert landings or dropping into areas with air defenses, but modern military doctrine would say "Why the hell are you attacking a sector in the first place if you haven't knocked out the air defenses?"
Given their ever diminishing logistical tail, the falshirmjaeger and the Wermacht as a whole, managed to fight quite well, even very late into the war.
My great uncle was in the falshirmjaeger. I still have his photo albums from the war. I am extremely proud to be related to a TRUE HERO! God bless the fatherland and the United States! Germany 🇩🇪 🦅 and America 🇺🇸 🦅 FIRST!
*Fallschirmjäger*
I agree the german commanders were pretty good, but whenever Hitler got involved and micromanaged is when the germans started losing.
My father was in the 1st Echelon of the New Zealand 20th Battalion, he fought in Greece, Crete, North Africa and then Italy right up until the end of the war. In Greece he said the most scary thing was the Stukas and how accurate they were; I think that it was the relentless attacks that the Stukas did over time paid its toll on the Allies. As for Meleme aerodrome it was a close thing.
My mother and father went to a reunion in Munich for the surviving Veterans of Crete and Monte Cassino and were hosted by the Fallschirmjäger Veterans and they all had a great time; obviously saluting lost friends and comrades and pondering over the meaning of war between two advanced civilizations!
My Dad had a great respect for the Germans Soldaten in Greece, Crete Africa and Italy.
My dad was close the the New Zealand troops. His story goes at dusk the Maori would start, what dad decried as a war chant which scared dad and he was on their side. Then they would charge the German lines pushing them back. The next morning the Stukas would arrive and bomb the allies right back to their previous lines.
@@binaway Sounds like an Accurate Account to me.....my dad was in what was in one of then known as the Pakeha Battalions, or (European Battalions although White boys fought in the Maori Battalion mainly in Signals and stuff).
The 20th Battalion was probably the most highly decorated Battalion in the British Empire in WW2 and it suffered massive casualties (397KIA).
Omg, especially when trying to understand Germans speaking English, one comes to appreciate your pronunciation Bernhard. And that comes from a Dutchman, who also speaks German.
One thing I love about the modern world is watching people speak to each other from different nations with a real sense of community. Much love to you and yours from the US!
I understood these men better than if Brits were doing the talking . !
@@TheYeti308exactly strong English accent is incredibly hard to understand German is definitely one of the more understandable accents
Caveat - There's an excellent book by a Colonel Whittaker of the Canadian RHLI who meticulously researched the Rhineland battles in which he fought. (It's a hell of a good book in terms of research) The Canadians said they "didn't like" the paratroopers, but respected them, and that Rhineland fighting was "as bad as Dieppe", a bit of a character reference coming from the Canadian army. Cassino - 40 years ago I met a German infantry guy from the post-Stalingrad reformed 71st Infantry division who fought at Cassino. He said the Germans weren't at all impressed by the Allied bombardment; they were perfectly safe underground. Seems to have been a hard fight for the Allies, rather than the Germans. At Seelow, the paratroopers were the 9th paratroop division, not the Cassino 1st division. Goering told Heinrici they were the Cassino troops, and Heinrici thought they were, even ringing Goering to tell him his "Cassino troops" had run away. Goering didn't even know which division was which.
Well, Goering was a long time addict to morphine and several other drugs. Not a good trait for a leader.
Re: "Were the Fallschirmjäger overestimated?"
Yes and no. Like their airborne counterparts in other nation's paratroop forces, the Fallschirmjäger were intended from the start to be elite troops. They were selected and trained according to standards which were quite high, and since they were under the German air arm, the Luftwaffe, they existed in a somewhat different compartment of the German war machine than did other light infantry units. Germany did not field as many special ops forces during the war as the Anglo-Americans, but this is in part because the Fallschirmjäger often handled such duties themselves, i.e., behind-the-lines raids, high-risk commando-style operations, air assault, etc.
Under the best of circumstances, delivering troops into the combat zone via parachute is fraught with risk. Risk of injury or death due to mishap and accident, wind blowing the troops off-target of their landing zones, etc. The Fallschirmjäger acquitted themselves well during the early part of the war, playing key roles in the invasion of Poland, the Low Countries, Scandinavia, and France. However, they are best-remembered today for their role in the airborne invasion of Crete, an operation which - while ultimately successful - proved extremely costly to them. Stunned by the losses inflicted on their forces during this operation, the Fallschirmjäger were pulled back for a time by the general staff. And when they were recommitted to action, it was often functioning de facto as regular ground troops and not airborne forces.
Despite the changes in how the high-command employed them, the Fallschirmjäger established a reputation - even amongst the Allies - as being a tough opponent. They proved extremely tenacious and tough-to-dislodge at Monte Casino, Italy, and also fought well following the invasion of Normandy in June, 1944, during which at times, they faced off against Allied paratroop units.
In assessing the record of the Fallschirmjäger, it is well to keep in mind that the Germans learned many of the same lessons about airborne troops as did the Allies: Once the 'romance' of parachutists is left behind, and their pros-and-cons are assessed in the light of day, it is plain that airborne insertion is the answer some of the time, but not all of the time. Used properly, airborne forces are a potent force-multiplier; used improperly or rashly, and they risked being slaughtered or captured before ever really getting into the fight. At one time, when the idea of airborne forces was new, it was hypothesized that entire armies would move and be deployed in this way, but time and experience showed that on a per-man basis, airborne insertion was both more-costly and more-resource intensive than more-traditional means of heading toward the sound of the guns. Like their counterparts in such storied airborne units as the British 1st Airborne Division "Red Devils" or the American 101st and 82nd A/B Divisions, the Fallschirmjäger finished the war being driven to the line in trucks, or marching - just as their fathers had done in WWI.
This type of overestimation seems to be very apparent with American special operations units.
They were picked and motivated men, that alone gave them a considerable advantage over regular troops, but there is overhype.
Especially later in the war when they had lost many of their best men and had to accept less trained and motivated personnel.
The Fallshirmjager reputation and efficiency is strong enough to withstand constructive criticism, yes?
Bravo Bernard & Co.
Close enough, opened with one hand & used with parachutes. Thank You for your finer details.
Another expert exposition with a lot of interesting perspectives. This is such a good series. Don't be put off by the less than completely slick English - it is definitely well worth sticking with all the way through for the quality of its content.
One of the things appreciate about these museum people whose conversational English is not quite up to Bernhard's standard is the insight I get into English, especially which phrases are so natural to me that I don't recognize how strange they are. I liked "top-down" and "bottom-up" here; realized that there are so many combinations of words to say the same thing that it is just rote memory to pick the right one. Some of the topics they struggle with, I would struggle to find the right word too sometimes, and I don't even have the excuse of using a foreign language.
More high quality historical content. Thanks to you both.
very fascinating discussion. I'm really enjoying those topics with Dr. Pahl
i like doctor Phil better
" young lady you need a spanking"
My Dad fought the Fallschirmjager in Crete, at Melene airport with the Famous 20th Battalion of the 1 Echelon of the New Zealand Army. My father also fought the Fallschirmjager again in Monte Cassino! They were very brave and excellent soldiers in his opinion.
Both my mother and father caught up with the Veterans of the Fallschirmjager at a Renuion in Munich in 1981 commemorating the battle of Greece, Crete, North Africa, and Italy for my Father. My Parents had a great time with their old foe, both sides remembered young men who had died and the Germans were surprised how the Pakeha (White battalion New Zealanders) Looked just like them, ha ha after all I am part German, Norwegian, Scottish, and Irish
The NZ 20th Battalion was probably the most highly decorated battalion in the British Empire ie; including English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Australia, Canadian, South African, Indian, etc. After all Charles Upham got two VCs Jack Hinton got one and there were heaps of other gongs as well. My Dad got an Oak Leaf and Bar! Pluss a bullet through the shoulder in Operation Crusader at Sedi Rezegh against Rommels Afrika Korp. He was a taken POW after being wounded, and treated very very well by the German Medics. He escaped before being turned over to the Iatlians shipped across the Mediterranean and captivity eventually in Northern Italy.
A good friend of my fathers was who was also taken POW at Sedi Rezegh was shocked by the treatment handed out to the New Zealanders from the Italian guards etc. The Italians treated the New Zealanders horribly, way way worse than any German or Austrian etc. I have an Italian Brother in law and what is weird is that we figured out that our fathers fought against each other in Africa in WW2, he now lives in Auckland New Zealand and I live in Christchurch NZ. What a small world.
Long Live Ukraine and the Freedoms we all fought for as even our old foe of WW2 Germany and Italy have grown into great democracies. Stuff PutiniZm and long live a free and democratic Europe, that's what my Dad fought for all the way from New Zealand
I really like these in depth looks at the Fallschirmjäger! Please do content more about them!
I think the best way to assess the performance of paratroopers is to study how well they fought as a ground unit. The jump is only how they got into battle. I think too many people grade paratroopers on the fact that they jump into battle ( which sounds more "badass"), and if they jump ready to fight. True. But once they're on the ground, or deployed to the front by trucks,or even march... how effective are they? Well,we know how good the Fallschirmjäger were no matter how they were deployed to the front. That's what has always impressed me about them.
Yeah, the airborne phase of the operation is merely the commute to work.
Of course, there is a psychological aspect of airborne that often gets overlooked - they are better than the objective facts of their training would indicate, because they *think* they are part of an elite unit, and so they push themselves harder in order to avoid dishonoroing the unit and letting their comrades down.
This is not exclusive to airborne - its a key trait in what makes a "crack" or "elite" unit so good, over and above the training. It's just fairly easy to convince young soldiers that the fact they can do something most people cannot (and many couldn't even conceive of themselves doing) - like voluntarily jumping out of airplanes with the *intent* of being surrounded by the enemy at the beginning of the battle - means they are "special", and that somehow that "special" nature carries over to everything else they do.
It's pure psychological trickery, but trickery that has actual effects on the ground. Given equal training, equipment, and situations, a unit that *thinks* it is elite will generally push themselves harder than a unit that thinks they are "average", even when the troops in both units are objectively equal in skill, strength, stamina, etc.
On Crete and after the 'every man for himself order was given' my father RA, part of a small group, while trying to escape through the mountains found the remains of a German paratrooper. He had been captured by the locals who had bound his ankles together and tied his hands behind his back. What looked like a piano wire lasso was looped around his neck and with his legs bent back the wire was tied to the ankle rope. It is impossible to keep your legs bent and as they straightened the wire noose tightened cutting the throat. With the head was not fully decapitated and to prevent retaliation they buried the remains.
Just another soldier missing in action.
3 years ago I travel to Crete and in my way paid respects to all that
suffered there from all nations during that conflict.
That is pretty disgusting, binaway.
How did they learn how to do that? it seems pretty complicated to perform such an execution so its hard to belive they just came up with it on the fly.
@@MNM-lq9te
Learn??
They were pissed off...
and humans can be incredibly cruel.
I don't think he made up the story and how would he know how they learned it.
Odd question.
@@1joshjosh1 yes it is an odd question, but i wonder hoe they came up with it. having it so the german's head get cut off by his legs streching out and being cut with the piano wire. You would think they would just hang him or stap him but no they did an compliacted execution method that makes the guy lose his head due to his own legs.
Another fantastic interview as always, makes washing dishes that much more enjoyable.
My Uncle, (who lied about his age and was 16 years old and was with the Canadian 1st Infantry Division) fought at the BATTLE OF ORTONA (ITALY) against the 1. Fallschirmjäger-Division said the German Airborne was excellent, but just not good enough against the Canadians who liberated the city. He said the Fallschirmjager were VERY good compared to regular Wehrmacht.
Well, the regular Wehrmacht deployed in Italy was overall pretty bad.
I would say, like the Panzer divisions of 1939-1940, the Fallschirmjäger being a new concept in the idea of warfare... and being differently trained , equipped and expected to be deployed to the regular infantry probably gave them a greater propaganda value
G'day,
Well, that would be an interesting hypothesis..., were it not for the twin points that Armoured Vehicles with Caterpillar Tracks to make a "Breakthrough" which the Infantry could then follow along and exploit - which is pretty much what the "Panzer Divisions" were formed for and tasked with achieving...; was a "Concept" well tested and proved by the British & French, in 1918...
And, as regards the German
"Samizdat/Copycat" response to the first ever Parachute Infantry Regiments, which were, of course, publicly demonstrated to the World by the USSR's Red Air Force at an Airshow in Moscow back in about 1932.
A man called Goebbels worked very hard to ensure that the World was aware of the German adoption of Parachutes for the insertion of Shock-Troops, during the late 1930s ; and he succeeded to the point where the British were fully expecting to be invaded by Fallschirmjaegers disguised as Nuns (!)
(Apparently 2 or 3 different Fearmongering stories were hybridised..., just(ifiably ?) there, one involving German Invasions succeeding due to a "5th Column" of Spies - in disguise, moving ahead of the Regular Formations, preparing the path (allegedly by redirecting Roadsigns & cutting Phonelines, to confuse the Defenders while assisting the Invasion...!) ; and the other two yarns involving Paratroopers dropping in advance of the Tanks to secure Crossroads & Bridges (plausible), while the final fear was an old recycled 1914-vintage Belgian "Canard" - involving the invading German Shock Troops raping Babies & throwing Nuns into the Air and then catching them on the ends of their Bayonets - fixed to their Rifles (!).
Hence, apparently, the British fear of Fallschirmjaegers descending onto them all disguised as Nuns
So, therefore (?), a bunch of RAF Pilots of Continental extraction (Poles, Czechs, Dutch etc...) were nearly lynched on the spot by English Civilians, for their appearing and sounding to be,
"Spies,
In Disguise ;
Falling from
The Skies...!"
when they bailed out over Britain, during der Kanalkampf..., because everybody in Europe & AmeriKa had been contitioned to be totally terrified of Fallschirmjaegers.
In fact though, the Fallschirmjaegers used a truly stupid Parachute Harness which condemned the Sentient Pendulum to having zero ability to steer or control their descent (Single-Point Attachment, between the Shoulders...!) ; and because of the uncontrollable Parachutes they could not carry their Weapons during the Drop - so WHEN the Troops could not find the Weapons-Containers, as the ones who didn't break their legs on landing attempted to locate each other, they were almost unarmed and milling about.
Easy targets for whatever Defenders who happened to be anywhere within the vicinity.
When Parachute Assaults "worked", it was always a case of,
"A Bad Idea
Done
Very well...!"
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
@@WarblesOnALot
Comparing WWI tanks to WWII tanks like that is - to be frank - silly, especially in Germany, since even the most casual observer of the briefest of propaganda tidbit would've noticed that they are miles apart in design, usage, capability and even just looks.
@@Lykyk And use. Tanks in WW1 were simply infantry support and not independet breakthrough units.
@@Lykyk
G'day,
You are in error.
Guderian said in his book that the Panzer Tactics which he and Rommel used in 1939 & 1940 & 1941 were all pioneered in 1918, by the British, advancing under General Monash (from here in Oz), implementing his Doctrine of Combined Arms Assault.
Tanks to punch Holes in the Defence, following Artillery using Gas..., with Infantry Shock Troops to run through the Tank-made Holes, all done under an Umbrella of DIVE-BOMBING & Strafing (by Sopwith Camels & Salamanders & DH-5s...), with an overlying Combat Air Patrol of SE-5a's and Sopwith Snipes going up to 25,000 Ft in layers, and Resupply of the leading edges of the Ground Advance with Ammunition, Food, Water & Fuel - all being achieved by Airdrops, using Parachutes, from DH-9s.
There's not much actually "New" under the Sun.
Some Tankologists like to claim that Leonardo Da Vinci invented the Idea of the Tank, but others say it was Archimedes.
Such is life,
Have a good one.....
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
@@WarblesOnALot You seem to have misappropriated a Russian word here with the result that the point you are making makes no sense. I think that the word you were intending to use was in fact the German noun erzatz, not samizdat, the latter meaning publishing anti-gov literature.
As I'm sure you are well aware, erzatz goods were common in Nazi Germany and ranged from acorn coffee to tea composed of ground raspberry leaves, and synthetic rubber made from petrol.
Samizdat: The secret publication and distribution of government-banned literature in the former Soviet Union. An underground press.
Erzatz: An ersatz good is a substitute good, especially one that is considered inferior to the good it replaces. It has particular connotations of wartime usage.
How much did their doctrine of jumping with just a pistol and recovering weapons on the ground effect the battles where they lost? Was that a big factor in the Hague?
The biggest factor in the Hague was that the Dutch government rightfully feared that the Germans could land para's and airlanding troops at their airfields as well. They explain this in the video. They put MG nests and armored cars along the runways. Landing waves of transports on airstrips that are prepared results in bloodshed. They really understated just how bad it was. Hundreds died.
@@Tidebo1 damn, never realized the Dutch are well prepared
@@fulcrum2951 Historically, the Dutch and the Swiss are much the same in thier foreign policy... it's just that the Dutch have easy terrain and the Swiss, well... Let's just say if you ever get to see the Alps and don't feel small and vulnerable the first time, there is something wrong with you.
@@Deridus
That sounds smart at a first glance but I think that's not true at all, considering how much more active the Dutch were both in Europe and globally in regards to their foreign policy.
@@Lykyk That is mostly fair.
Could you do a video on The Hague? It's very often overlooked, but I think it's quite significant.
not over rated at all , it's just that most special units at that time were often misused or completely over used to do more than what they were made for but germen para's were a short lived but very respected military force whose reputation was made by their wins and losses
The constant fight degraded ALL germans forces, years of war and huge losses make impossible to mantain the high standars of 1939-41, many of the best paratroopers die in Crete and Cassino take the remaining pros......
I think that after any war, the victor wants to hype up the enemy as much as possible, in order to make the victory seem bigger.
...or to cover up their own incompetence.
Americans are quite famous about that. Making themselves sounds small and weak and the enemy big and strong.
In the Netherlands in 1944 units like the 6th FJR and 2nd FJR provided units which were combined with various other units to form a Kampfgruppe. They were generally better in offensive actions because of a combination of veteran cadre, better equipment and a (subsequent) higher moral. And by being supported by armour(usually Jagdpanzers and/or Sturmgeschutze) Better equipment is best seen in contrast to the regular troops which were mostly 2nd line units equipped with mostly captured, old and even obsolete gear. Think of things like a PZKFW III, Marder I, PanzerJaeger Renault R35. They were short on artillery and anti-tank guns as most units had been garrison troops.
Thanks; this just gave me a few new angles on history.
In general though, my impression is that in no country at the time, with a few exceptions, paras were quite as effective as their creators had dreamed them up to be.
Usually very good soldiers trying hard to achieve objectives set just a bit too high for reality by grand officers.
Fantastic, thanks.
In spite of heavy losses they captured Crete
As compared to arnhem
Dropped six miles away!
But the British put up one hell of a fight and only surrendered when out of supplies the germans never overran their position
@@demonprinces17 The Germans were SEVERELY outnumbered and undersupplies and still WON the campaign, the allies took 4 to 1 losses in Crete... in addition to the ones that escaped.
apples and oranges...
Iv'e heard some claim Crete was actually a "moral victory" for the Brits and a "disaster" to the Germans. Absurd. Sure they fought valiantly but that does not necessarily mean "skillfully"... and certainly not "decisively". And they seem to want to forget that the entire Greek experience was a total cluster for the British... RN as well as army. Some successes in evacuations do not really count in the larger scheme (especially when they come at such a cost in lost ships and men). It's like it is still 1942 and the country needs propaganda to keep up morale and the will to fight. Strategically, it is very clear that the whole British Greece campaign was a mistake that distracted from the desert war It cost the British over 15,000 casualties and the Germans about 5,000 . "3:1" ratios are supposed to be against the attacker... not the defender.
@@stevewindisch7400 That is winnie's propaganda, and yet there are people that still believe such nonsense...
They also include that the Germans decided to never use them again, which is nonsense.
Atleast they had a great song (and someone made a fantastic remix out of that too :D )
Rot scheint die Sonne, fertig gemacht!
Trained to ‘live off the land’! Also, scrounging and stealing (sometimes called acquiring) are two different things. They certainly were, in the NZ Army during the 1980s and 1990s.
It’s like you’re in my lately I’ve taken a fascination with Fallschrimjäger doing research I see you video. I ask myself “why wasn’t there an Airborne assault into Russia?” Another one of your videos on the subject very awesome
Thanks!
woah..take it easy.
Thank you for an interesting video. The commander at Maleme was a Member of Parliament and former WW1 officer who used his political connections (in lieu of demonstrated military competence) to acquire a command position in the 2nd NZEF. He was despised by a NZ Greece, Crete, Western Desert and Italy veteran whom I knew, for his withdrawal at Maleme. The British quartermaster, based in Egypt, who supplied the (NZ) division with faulty radios and obsolete captured Italian artillery pieces without sights (instead of brand new 25 pounder guns, of which there was a plentiful supply) should have been tried by court martial and executed by firing squad but that is a different discussion.
great vid, my grandfather fought along side the para's in the battle of monte casino, got captured and taken to the states as a pow - pretty lucky i guess :) he saw combat on nearly all fronts (poland, france, trained for sealion, went to the eastern front and then italy). as a feedback the pronunciation of "the" from dr. pahl was rather painful - coming from a german native speaker ;)
Awesome explanation on the FJ's, I would love to hear about the Ramcke Brigade, you don't hear alot about this little group of FJ's.....
Thank you MHNV
Crete and Belgium, I'd say they earned their reputation. So did Kurt Student.
Fun Fact: Russia thought of paratroopers first but thought it was dumb an moved on.
Crete? wtf
Russia founded airborne divisions in the early 30’s and gradually increased it to 10 divisions before axing them in 1942 they reinstated them in 1944 and trained another 10 divisions from scratch then axed them again in 1945. I think the issue why they were always deployed as foot soldiers and never did a combat drop other than partisan insertion and resupply was they always lacked air superiority, effective command and control and had poor equipment (they didnt have radios to communicate with HQ once on the ground). They were always worried about them being cut off behind enemy lines. The one time they tried it in on a large scale 1942 they planned to drop 14,000 but their poor planning and obvious preparations meant the Luftwaffe was able to destroy the assembled force on the tarmac as they boarded their aircraft, only 3000 got airborne and only a third of that made it to their target.
The Germans COPIED the concept from the SOVIETS...
@@trauko1388 Nah.
Paratroopers existed as early as the tail end of the first world war in concept in the austrohungarian monarchy even. I am absolutely certain the germans also had their program.
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 The German program began after they saw a Soviet paratrooper exhibition, look it up.
They were Elite Troops for their Day and they used cutting edge technology of the time they had a Fighting Ethos that many many Allied units didn't have..Their only Equals would be the Brandenburgers or our Commandos and our own Parras
I am interested in Units such as the Air landing division and others like the Glider born infantry. Also what happened to the FJ when they deployed as ground troops on the Eastern front.
Very much appreciated. Until now never understood why an elite force like paras were used in the front line (the 185th Para Folgore at El Alamein is another example).
You’re the best ever Bernhard!!!!
I am surprised you didn't mention what happened to the FsJ battalion that was dropped on top of the NZ 28th (Maori) battalion on Crete.
I have always had the utmost respect for the fallschirmjäger, in the words of von der heydt when he said that entering the paratroopers was accepting a new form of humanity
Far from supporting the ideology I have the utmost respect for their determination stoic resilience and at times humanity like in 1944 on holland when they shared their rations with deportees heading towards a concentration camp,getting into a scuffle with the ss guards in the process
They where misused in Crete suffering devastating losses but that due to incompetence from the nazi leadership who foolhardishly put the whole brunt of the operation on their shoulder for a secondary objective like the island
In Cassino I think what they achieved is nothing short of astounding,holding back the whole allied army for months and I think the 6th in Normandy,carentan performed admirably well,considering it was wiped and then reconstituted with surplus luftwaffe personnel
Like other branches of the German armed forces during the war,once the historical core of the most experienced soldiers was lost the replacements where usually hastily trained and performed naturally worse and where used moreover as light infantry usually in the worst spots or where the tough nerve was needed,again like Normandy Cassino Ortona and the eastern front
If they had been on the right side they would be universally recognized as one of the best soldiers of all time
Just my humble opinion
They did fight well in Italy on the defense thou?
Yeah, but Bernhard isn't interested in talking about the successes. Just the failures.
I wonder if the broader definition of Manneszucht might be Code of conduct?
The Merchant Navy were looking for stability under pressure from their recruits too. So more than just discipline under fire.
Although Fallschirmjäger Regiment 6 was the opponent of the Dutch Resistance Group my Granddad belonged to, I must come for historical reasons to the aid of Kampfgruppe Chill.
It was for a large part build up of Lw.Training units that were depicted as Fallschirmjäger units.
So here are the numbers according to Jack Didden.
The casualties from 5 September to 9 November west of Hell's Highway.
From Beringen to Grave to Woensdrecht to Willemstad.
German :
Northern Belgium: 21.000
West of Valkenswaard to Grave: 35.000
Totalling: 56.000.
Allied
Totalling : 18.806
Allied casualties inflicted by Kampfgruppe Chill
(incl. FJR.6) :
Beringen-
Leopold area : 415
Geel area :
918
Ten Aard area :
914
Kempen area :
930
Veghel-Eerde-Lochtenberg (better known as Koevering) area :
970
Goirle area :
216
Woensdrecht area :
1840
Bergen op Zoom to Willemstad :
650
Totalling 6858
That is about 1/3 of all the Allied casualties !
Casualties of Kampdgruppe Chill : 7895
In the light that they were constantly deployed for 2 months and send to one broken frontline to another to stabelize the situation.
And with limited sources and minimal artillery or tank support in often a very difficult offensive situations this is a quit achivement.
These numbers give
1 : 0,869 percentage.
Although the Dutch Resistance Group my Granddad belonged to did not come into view yet, here are the episodes that are finished.
It shows how and where Fallschirmjäger was deployed.
The Resistance Group will soon come into view.
Also the other German unit they had to face Marine Einsatz Kommando 40.
ruclips.net/p/PLmZsQHKnBH0CtaiykT5e6UJZ8E-7XWY1A&si=EaxZrDBWvoO3v21k
6th Fallschirmjager in Carentan 1944
They were good soldiers, but bullet is equally dangerous to conscript just given his rifle and SAS-veteran of five years of active service.
Geschlossen = Consolidated
If you look at Fallschirmjaeger performance in the Netherlands take in account that the bridges they managed to take werent defended when they landed, guards werent issued ammunition. The commanding officer of Dordrecht where an important water crossing was, was brother of Anthon Mussert (leader of a Dutch collaborate party) and executed by one of is subordenate officers. The troops there werent combat troops, mentioning that, Dutch army combat troops only were draften for 5 1/2 months practice, no field manouevres above compagny level were done, and almost no range time given. So very little offensive potential, coupled with the watery flat terrain and limited firepower of dutch units, the Germans were lucky it didnt turn into an even bigger shitshow than it already had become.
Para units may have sex appeal etc, they tend to be attracting and accumelating a lot of gungho and competent personel, but looking at performance, risk and eventual return on investment its no surprise that Germany stopped using them as para's. You can only really use them in surprise or against an already weak enemy.
Could you do a video on the special equipment of the Fallschirmjäger?
They had great spring loaded knives though, as issue. Opened with one hand .
Umm... this knives (in german known as Kappmesser) didn't use spring mechanism to operate. Instead they used weight of blade to open/close after using blockage and pointing handle in needed direction. Due this are also known as gravity knives.
By the way - opposite to popular belief this knives were not intended solely for paratroopers. This type was standard issue for Luftwaffe aircraft crews.
Later in the war in 1944 it depended on how experienced the NCO's were.
And if how much training the unit itselve have had.
If you look at FJR.6 prior, during and after Operation 'Market-Garden' you can say they were very succesful.
On the other hand the Regiments with barely or even untrained recrutes fought hard, but only could achieve parts of their task at the cost of huge casulties and under performed to the extreme high expectations that High Command demanded of them.
One of the other reasons was that Commanders had little room to manouvre, with only a few exeptions when they had already a huge reputation and were bold enough to go against orders to ensure succes.
Im wondering just how much "Pervitin" (methamphetamine) was used by the Fallschirmjager & just how much was it's impact on combat performances. And were hard fought battles & campaigns dependant on ample supplies of the pharmaceutical ?
They got their asses handed to them when they landed in Holland around the Hague. They only just escaped being annihilated and some 1500 were escorted to Britain as POW’s. So draw your own conclusions.
Is there a book in English that covers the major battles that the falchimjager fought in?
Zat wos werri intristing, sank ju!
After the end of the Normandy campaign a study was done to what actually killed each German panzer. They found that only a couple had been. The greatest effect was as noted in the quote in the video. That was to say morale. They also paralyzed German movement during the day and shut down movement of supplies into the battle space.
Oh man, talk about a doozy of a video title! You're definitely going to ruffle some feathers with this one my man lol
yes.
Excellent video!
All such elite units are basically overrated. That's because they are (as mentioned in the video) portraited as "super humans" - while in reality they are only humans - with all their strenghts and weaknesses. It takes only one, single bullet fired from a barely trained peasant to kill or severly wound even the best trained and bravest soldier in the world. Typical for all the lightly armed Para units was that they - once they lost the element of surprise - were in trouble once the enemy decided to put up a determined fight.
Almost all the so-called elite units - on all sides - went through the same cyclus: They started out as an extremely high morale and well trained, but often inexperienced, unit - then went through the meatgrinder and took very heavy casualties due to being in high demand - then were pulled out to be rebuilt for a period - and thereafter went back to the front as a still tough unit with a core of increasingly experienced soldiers - but was never quite the same. Very few soldiers in a German or Soviet rifle company in 1941 were still there in 1944.
According the Swedish historian Zetterling in his book about German units in Normandy, none of the SS or FJ units in Normandy could really be considered "elite" - none of them were "better" than the regular Heer units there. For example, 1st SS Panzer was in the middle of a rebuild period. As far as I remember, only 2nd Panzer and arguably Panzer Lehr could be considered elite units.
What a well argued and articulated point you make which I totally agree with. If I may digress I would like to refer to the Irish War of Independence 1919-1921. The British deployed a unit during this conflict known as the "Auxiliaries" in July 1920. These men were veteran officers of the Great War and hundreds had been decorated for bravery during WW1 including 3 VC winners. When they arrived in Ireland they had a reputation of being super fighters and they appear in early newsreel footage as "His Majesty's Finest". They were considered an elite force. The vast majority of the IRA had no military experience except those who had served in the Great War. At an IRA officer meeting the Auxiliaries were being discussed and their reputation were having an effect on IRA moral. One IRA officer was listening to his comrades talk about the Auxiliaries with their Great War experience and gallantry awards and how tough they were. He interrupted the meeting by picking up s bullet(.303 round) and stating that if they can be killed by one of these then they should not be feared. I thought of this as I read your excellent post. By the way the most famous IRA victory in the Irish War of Independence was the defeat of an Auxiliary convoy in November 1920(Kilmichael Ambush).
@@johnroche7541 Exactly - and in Crete plenty of German paras were killed by locals when they landed. I'll have to look up Kilmichael Ambush ;-)
Never served have you
@@demonprinces17 Yes, I have. I actually served in one of my country's so-called "elite" forces.
After the battle of crete were the fallschirmyager still taught how to parachute or was this changed since crete was the only battle that they were used in that role?.
The question is were they better than the paratroopers of the other countries?
The french recruited many from pow camps after ww2
For service in indochina
1948 and 49 saw the formation of two foreign
Legion airborne battalions!
Used mostly has infantry after Crete .Had a good fighting reputation with both allied soldiers and commanders.Elite troops but could not stand up to armour supported infantry unless supported .
Pretty much like *any* crack light infantry unit. (Disclosure- I was a light infantryman for eight years, starting a few years before the Berlin Wall fell. And while our most likely employment was always going to be a lower intensity war, probably in close terrain, our *WWIII* mission and purpose was the entire division could be flown to Germany in 72 hours because we didn't have heavy equipment. Which meant a lot of our training focused on, "How the Hell are we supposed to delay 3rd Shock Army's tanks long enough for our tank and mech guys flying in from the US to get their shit out of the storage sites in Germany and get to the battlefield?!?" Believe it or not, we *did* have a plan. Not a *great* plan for those who desired a long life, mind you, but a *workable* plan - maintain small unit cohesion at the squad and platoon level while being overrun, go to ground with the survivors until the assault echelons are past, and then target the following logistics tail as they drive through.)
There is always propaganda. At that time like today. People like "Ubersoldiers".
military arm of taxi company.
lol
"Well Agent Blazkowicz. You are a most impressive specimen. It would be my pleasure to dissect you piece by piece. Let me introduce you to someone. Do not confuse it with the mere prototypes you've encountered. This is the pinnacle of all my research. Das Über-Soldat. The Super Soldier. It will be my pleasure to watch it destroy you."
@@NathanDudani that was from the early 2000's version, yes?
Fallschirmjager? Please and thank you!
I'd say they were atleast as effective as the paratroopers of any other country, and in many cases better.
This was great to listen to.being frank; most German equipment were of a high standard.
Genuinely, the FJ were not as effective as the hype suggests.
The Belgians were surprised by the gliders, to make matters worse, they were too spread out so that they could not support each other. i don't know how active the luftwaffe was over the hague, but eben-emael and the areas around it were attacked by the luftwaffe so the belgians couldn't send support or organize a proper counterattack
The Luftwaffe was also very active over North and South Holland. Since the Ju52 was very vulnerable, it was protected by the Bf-109 which also attacked ground targets. There were continuous bombardments.
No! If 80 if them, without an officer due to a snapped cable on their glider, could rip open the keyposition of the entire western front in a 3 hours ( Eben Emael), than questioning it is beyond ludicrous. No to mention Cassino, Crete, the Neteherlands and so on
As I understand it, that was done by an elite unit within the Fallschirmjägers. Not saying that as an argument against that the regular Fallschirmjägers were elite, mind you.
THey where just drilled for that specific target for over 6 months ( Eben Emael)
Still 80 out of a company of 160 reached the target, led by a sergeant and bested 1600 garrison troops and blasted all turrets with hollow charges . They lost a few men and within 6 hours completly prevented the aliies to use their Deille-Breda plan. ( Digging in from north of frnace, westside alog the Deille and link up with belgium and dutch forces in one continuous line to stop the wehrmacht, still under the impression the germans used a modified Schlieffen plan they had uncovered form a german officer who crahclanded in Belgium in the winter
So yeah, they (the green devils) kicked ass and then some
@@jeroenwubbels7824 Yes but that was an operation done by Sturmabteilung Koch, later known as Luftlande-Sturm-Regiment 1, which was essentially an in-house special forces unit of the Fallschirmjägers.
They were tough men equal to any other airborne not over rated
The same could be said of the entire Wehrmacht.
But if German Fallschirms Jägers weren't Elite in Early war, who was?
in Greece we remember these hand-picked German fighters as war criminals for the brutality and vindictiveness they committed against the citizens because men, women, children and even priests resisted with what they had (knives, hunting weapons and even stones) defending their country. The best example of the bravery of the German paratroopers is the massacre in Kontomari where, after killing all 180 residents and burning all the houses of the village, they also slaughtered the animals. The next day they razed Kadanos in the same way, killing all the inhabitants. There they also raised a sign that said "Kandanos was destroyed in retaliation for the bestial ambush murder of a paratrooper platoon and a half-platoon of military engineers by armed men and women." It was overestimated for sure because people don't commit such crimes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Kondomari en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razing_of_Kandanos
The German Paratrooper was the best infantrymen who can fight and endure and accomplish his mission to the point of death. To be a Paratrooper needs dedication and intelligence to figure your way to survive and take the objective to accomplish the mission.
eben emael succes = very detailed planned and new techniques (surprising enemy) and VERY NEARBY relief army (same hour at the location).
The Hague failure = Casual planning(thinking to walkover),and VERY FAR AWAY relief army (days away)...saved not by tanks but by devastating civilian terror bombardment of Rotterdam
Crete pyrrhic succes = detailed planning and CONCENTRATED in a airfield (corner) (while enemy dispersed..as is always the case)...largely by stupidity of enemy ..again Luftwaffe saved the day...and so to bring relief army by vessels and airplanes ..(having pushed the enemy navy away).
Arnhem...= hasty and thus poor planning, and relief army FAR away...(while enemy supply sources /germany , via railroads) were NEAR and fast..(not even considering having the reduced SS there...becoz these could have been railed in within 8 hours from anywhere in germany..).
in all cases the crux is AIR DOMINANCE (by fighters, by bombers, by transport planes..)
and/or a really really REALLY nearby massive relief army..
And what about Malta, guys? Because capturing the island was considered after the invasion of Crete, isn’t it? At this time, as you said, Hitler wasn't considering large attacks with paratroopers anymore, but since the capturing of Crete was so complicated for the Germans, did the mistrust against the paratroopers played a role in their decision to not attack there?
Regards!
High command placed Malta as in the Italian sphere and offered support but Italy was never ready to commit. The raid on Taranto put a link in the Italian Navy's initial plan to support a landing and between the lack of fuel oil and mounting losses the Italians missed their window.
@@Digiidude yep, that window would be like from the fall of Crete to early 1942, I guess. At least a little bit before the first stages of the Battle of El Alamein, Isn’t?
No, Operation Herkules was planned and started in cooperation with the Italians, ALL paratroopers were to be involved in a massive attack, which of course disproves the silly tale of Hitler refusing to use the FJ ever again, that is pure propaganda by winnie in order to try and justify somehow the Crete debacle.
So, what happened?
Well, Rommel crushed the brits and asked for support in order to take Cairo and, since Hitler was concerned about the RM willingness to actually stand against AND FIGHT the RN if needed... gave him enough of a reason to cancel Herkules and divert the aircraft, shipping and resources to supply Rommel at El Alamein.
Malta was to mostly Italian airborne
@@Digiidude no the Italians wanted to attack but needed German support which the germans withheld
This is a fallschirmjager. He falls
"Hohlladung" would be shaped charge for the english viewers.
Those dudes were badass. In the rare times they failed, it was because of extremely difficult odds. Yeah they got slaughtered at Crete - but 95% of the world's other units would have gotten torn to shreds and lost the battle. The German paratroopers got shredded and won anyway.
They didnt get slaughtered, that was winnies propaganda in order to make his disastrous failure look less bad.
The allies suffered 4 casualties for every German one, just think about that.
@@trauko1388 There is some truth to what you say but Student's boys never dropped again. 60% casualties is a bear.
@@TheLoyalOfficer They dropped over Sicily, I wont mention the suicidal night drop over the Ardennes forest, if you are concerned about losses you dont do that...
7th Flieger had 11.000 men and suffered 3.352 losses in Crete... 60%???
In the end it wasnt a paratrooper problem, it was an intelligence failure.
@@trauko1388 Yeah but how many of those 11,000 were jumpers and not other personnel? The night drop at the Bulge and Sicily drop were tiny - and irrelevant.
@@TheLoyalOfficer Well, you claimed 60%, not me...
FJR 3 jumped on Sicily, more than 1.400 men, hardly tiny.
The British paratroopers found them far from irrelevant.
Simply glorious accents
Crete was the shining moment.
Why is it that English-speaking Germans (not just scholars) seem to have better grammar, vocabulary and sentence structure than most native English-speakers. Is this due to an educational or cultural feature? Perhaps misperception on my part, or some quirk regarding the ability to readily acquire a 2nd language?
I've noticed much the same of professionals who learn second languages. Comes with the territory.
Hard to tell, fun fact is I probably know the most about Spanish grammar, although my Spanish is really bad.
A lot of grammar etc. is learned "automatically" as a child, whereas a 2nd language usually isn't. One major difference between English and German is that German allows for very long sentences, something that is not possible in English from what I know/heard (although I actually don't really understand why).
Of course, one aspect might be that you compare the average native English-speaker in "regular situations" versus "us" in a "lecture"/interview situation with camera. I am not sure, but I think in "regularly daily talk" a lot of sentence structure, grammar and the range in vocabulary just flies out of the window.
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Un austríaco hablando español... será acaso uno de los últimos Habsburgo??? XD
Señor! Deje de mirar a su prima... que ya sabemos como termina eso. 🤣
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized Danke. Got me thinking...Was language an issue for foreign troops under Wmacht control?
@@MilitaryHistoryNotVisualized You can get very long sentences in English, but with so many commas required it is bad style.
As German has such long compound words, I find it harder to know when to stop and 'breathe' - English makes this clearer for me at least
Ayo I made it early for once.
Videos are always best fresh
Overestimated? They were overnumbered. Modern bundesrepublik- population mostly overpressed. Can we 100%-rely on such source? :-/
👍👍👏
After the Germans stopped doing combat jumps where boots still given jump training or was that removed from training?
According to Yugoslav partisans, yes, they were.