Facts, and how is no one mentioning flinch? Old cods had slow sprint to fire and ads (without special perks) and super high visual flinch and impairment. You couldn’t instantly stop sprinting, pull up your sights, strafe at insane speed, and memorize a recoil pattern, without you screen shaking while you’re being shot by a guy with a 3 bar connection. Ultimately the experienced recoil in old cods was much higher in multiple ways. (Also you were worried about holding angles, because nades were actually good… no one had blast shield on in mw2 so every cod before that had little to no counter to explosives. Or you get tubed, or lasered by a harrier out the sky, or white screen flashed for 5 seconds… now you can counter all that, while having 10 attatchments on your gun giving you what used to be called specialist bonus on every life) Old cod was more random and crazy, which made the customization more fun. You had to make choices on how you wanted to play, and they were all viable.
@@JohnSmith-zk3kd Id disagree with that. Mw2 ak47 had horrible visual recoil. Where as mw19 has actual recoil. In mw2 you'd be shooting straight, but the AK was hiding the enemy. Mw19 doesn't have guns like that
There’s not enough of a skill gap when it comes to recoil because of how extreme of a difference the recoil control attachment make. Give literally all weapons 5-7% more overall recoil in terms of magnitude and variance from side to side, and there comes a massive skill gap.
I remember the ak-47 in MW2 being reasonably accurate but suffering from the iron sights bouncing up over the view of your target. Should have shown them the F2000, now that sucker bounced all over the place. Loved it all the same. Tar-21 would have been another good choice. Another factor (one I wouldn't be able to judge for sure without trying to stop the video) is muzzle flash. I kinda want to say that older cods had more muzzle flash generally speaking which made it harder to stay on target? But then I remember the sheer amount of smoke and dust that just.... exists in general in Vanguard and I'm less sure.
I'd say that in general 6v6, there is likely little difference. However, in Warzone where gunfights take place at much longer ranges, the guns from previous Cods would be impossible to use. This ties in to the range aim assist you talked about but I genuinely believe it's the thing most people are noticing. A COD4 RPD could not laser someone the way you can build a Bren etc
An addition to your ''Why Guns Feel More ''Accurate'' Now'' part: Players have gotten better. If you've been around since COD4 or MW2, you've been around for a long time. You might have picked up those games when you were a kid or in HS, and they might have been your very first FPS. Your awareness of the behaviour of your guns were likely a lot worse, and even if you have never actually trained things like recoil management and snapping through third party programs, you have naturally gotten better at those things over time. It sits in your muscle memory. I could probably handle an AK in MW19 with no attachments today better than my 9-year old self would handle an M4 in COD4 - because I was garbage at the game. People might forget just how bad they were 12-14 years ago, even though it definitely plays into their perception of guns being easier to use now than it was back then. I feel like this argument of players naturally getting better at FPSes over time is overlooked not only in this discussion, but in many other discussions regarding many other games when players ask ''why things are easier now than it was before''. Sometimes we forget just how much has changed since the 2000s/early 2010s, both in the industry as a whole but more importantly in this case our general skill level.
I don't really agree to that. There are tons of kids that are just now playing cod these days and a lot of them are just as good or if not better than some long-term cod players that have been playing since the early days. I think it's a lot more to do with how much more accurate controllers are these days. They have almost no deadzones on the analog sticks and you can be extremely precise now. Especially in newer cods on the newer engine, for some reason they really nailed the aiming feel when playing on consoles. I noticed how much more accurate mw2019 was when I played the alpha compared to bo4 which I was just playing before that. If you go back and play bo3 now it's insanely jarring how much harder it is to aim in that game due to there being no deadzone options and just being an older cod. It also probably had less aim assist as well.
Oh no! Kids will always be better than us. They learn faster. They learn the game like they learn their first language. I was about 15 during CoD4's life cycle. It took maybe a month but I was hitting headshots fine after that. It was my 2nd Online MP on Xbox and 1st CoD game. I played Rainbow Six Vegas before that. You could say it was a harder game but ADS wasn't a thing before an update to it. The games have gotten easier but there are also more available resources for info. Newer kids have no barriers in terms to "get good" at the game. The games offer lots of assistance and RUclips gives easy info. Because of this, The Skill Gap has been shortened. The games have gotten easier. It's better for the industry.
100% agreed. I've been saying this for ages, that a skilled player today; some sweatbag with the mastery Camo who gets nukes or gets 15+ lill SnD games was to play to old school professional Cod4; they could 300% hold their own and do well.
I believe they increased aim assist range because of crossplay to help controllers compete with keyboard and mouse. Not surprised be the recoil though. I would like to see some more horizontal recoil added to guns, especially in warzone. Getting beamed by an assault rifle 200 meters away probably shouldnt be so easy.
Seriously. I thought it was a good idea at first to increase player counts and make matchmaking easier, but it ends up being a mess trying to balance mouse + keyboard against controllers, not even mentioning PC players getting FOV sliders and that giving them an advantage over consoles regardless of input methods.
Really interesting video. I remember us all thinking the F200 was waaaaay too much recoil to useable, but there was always that one guy that somehow had 0 kick with it 😆
You mean the 12 years old video about F2000 showcase? Yeah, he's really skilled with that gun. Any "fast ROF-low damage-moderate to high recoil" assault rifles are really useful than they think, as long as they play to its strength.
Guns do certainly have more recoil, but having a consistent recoil pattern allows players to practice and master a gun's behavior, whereas this wasn't possible before. Also, another point about your video and the attachments: even though players can significantly reduce recoil by opting for specific attachments, they would rarely go all out on doing so (aka specifically building a gun just tor recoil reduction) as a lot of those attachments bring penalties for the gun. So, actual impact of the gunsmith in dampening the recoil isn't as widespread as you pictured.... At least in vanilla multiplayer. In warzone however, your assumption might be more true to life
BO2 was the first competitive cod where it had ranked play and a COD world championship and I remember none of those pro players can shoot 60-70m with AR or beyond 30m with SMG whereas pro players with SMG can now laser with 40-50m away and pro players with AR can laser across berlin/guvutu hardpoint in vanguard.. I remember gun guides from BO2 had the "predictible" recoil pattern unlike MW1 or MW2, so those had the pattern but far less accurate
@@FRESH___ Ngl I’d honestly prefer the random recoil, it’s only in a certain area and just looks way easier to handle. If the ak47 really is the worst for recoil in those games then that’s pretty easy to play with. The acr and m4 literally had no recoil to lol
@@orangeondaxbox2768 random recoil has no skill involved, every bullet casing is a flipping coin Recoil patterns provide something to learn and improve at, letting you know when you really mastered the weapon, when you can slap with it with no recoil attachments I prefer being able to learn and improve at something rather than pray and believe it'll work
What I liked about COD4 was that the high damage high recoil guns like the ak47 or mp44 (stg44), were in a way designed to be tap fired at long ranges because of that randomness applied to their recoil. With that system in place we would have a much higher skill ceiling in recoil control, since you can't beam people full auto at long ranges, therefore having a more realistic feel for the game.
@@rommelthedesertfox3089 nope. You’re tripping. It had a lot of recoil. And it bounced up and down. But because it was predicable, it wasn’t too difficult to control. The volume of recoil was still a lot.
@@bobdarrick2628 lol naw u just can’t handle recoil if u think the ak47 from cod 4 had a lot of recoil it had more than the other guns but just barely sounds like u need to practice how to control ur recoil
@@rommelthedesertfox3089 I’m talking about in the game. I’ve played Battlefield and R6S. CoD has no recoil compared to Siege. Compared to BF, CoD has low recoil. In general CoD doesn’t have much recoil. Most assault rifles are pretty accurate. The ICR-1 was basically useless in BO3 (in Mp, it was really good in Zombies) because it killed slow and other guns were accurate enough to make this gun not worth using.
@@bobdarrick2628 I’ve played battlefield and rainbow 6 siege too as well as hell let loose and insurgency sandstorm and the ak47 in cod 4 had minimal recoil
Recoil now feels MUCH more than the past wtf 😅. To be fair; we won't always be using the biggest barrel with a grip and compensator in MP. I think part of it is that players have gotten MUCH better too
@@42ZaphodB42 do they though? Yeah the attachments help you have a set of guns built to compliment your play style but they do have they're differences like fire rate, accuracy and range. Like sure I can put the same type of attachments on my as44 and stg but I'd rather run into someone in a room holding the as44 and I'd rather shoot at someone 100m away with my stg
@@B4NSHEE_WITH_A_4 Yeah sure, you can cherrypick two guns and theyre not the same. Yet you can literally cram all long-range ars in one bucket and theyre basically the same. Just minute stat differences, when in the end just dps matters. And I dont think that theres too much build diversity, everyone picks meta attachments anyway or else they get clapped.
@@42ZaphodB42 yeah you've got a point. I'm starting to get sick of the "new season guns are meta along with 1 or 2 random ones that get buffed into it (NZ 41) and then everything else is either "viable" or just down right underpowered. Wanna use a mw smg? Better not run into someone using a blixen 😂😂and it's not just ttk, I've gotten so used to the vanguard movement speed that it feels like I'm running through mud whenever I try to mess around with anything pre vanguard integration
One thing that might be more on the speculative side but is still worth mentioning, is that the core playerbase of CoD is better at the game now compared to 10+ years ago.
Hey ace, as someone that said their is less recoil, my issue is WZ not MP. I feel in WZ it just become what gun has the least recoil and use that to beam people 200 meters away. this might sound odd but if that added in a recoil system that weapons has like maybe 3 recoil patten not random but enouth to make people have to learn the weapons more the patten could random change out the 3 after the patten is done, its why i'v always enjoyed MP more then WZ but sadly at the moment VG is kinda dead as always I do enjoy your weapon in-depth
I play mw remastered all the time. I can say for certain that basically every gun except for the pistols, g3, m16 and bolt snipers have a lot of randomness to the recoil. You can not beam people at distance like you can in new cod and warzone. You either spray and pray for do controlled bursts in an effort to hit more shots. It’s a skill in itself.
Old cods were great. Guns in real life don't really have super predictable recoil. "Spray and pray" kinda lost its meaning as recoil can still be accurate when spraying.
i know the black ops 4 ICR with the 2 grip attachments could dump a mag into 2 bullet holes. that was the epitome of a laser, outside of the real laser guns in the advanced cods
You neglected to mention that in order to get that optimal recoil pattern for the MW2019 AK-47, you have to deal with REALLY hefty handling penalties. So even though you can get a recoil pattern that may be easier to control than older games, you're gonna be really struggling to deal with fast paced fights
I’m not a huge fan of some of the more recent cods, but one thing I will complement is the new recoil system. It does make guns feel more unique and masterable.
Dunno if you called it recoil or bloom…back then recoil are all random to point that first bullet don’t even have the accurate at where you aim at. So what exactly is real life recoil be? It actually the gun shaking that cause bullets shift like in tarkov not base on “random”. Old cod use laser hit box not trying to replicate projectile so bloom is the only way to replicate “recoil”. Because it is randomise make you hard to control so you would think it have more recoil but in truth there’s no “recoil”.
Was never a fan of random recoil but honestly I never noticed it in the older CoDs. I DEFINITLY noticed it in older Battlefields (everything 4 and before). Having to fight enemies at longer ranges and not being able to trust your weapon's sights was SOOOO frustrating. I got used to it and I do love Battlefield, but I will say BF1 and BFV had better systems. Random recoil in BF1 was based on your weapon class and was easier to understand and of course BFV had recoil patterns where your bullets went exactly where you aimed. Sure recoil was a bit wild in BFV but that just meant controlling and bursting had direct visual feedback rather then guessing like in older Battlefields
As a PC player I think your controller and predictability arguments are quite valid. When I saw the title I laughed that anyone would think the new games have less recoil... but when considering the advancements associated with controllers and predictable recoil, I can see how people could feel that way. Also on the topic of attachments, if you wanna spec for the laser beam recoil then you're giving up attachment slots that could be used for other things. I loved the MW2019 guns and I hope the new MW2 is more of the same
Thank you ace for explaining the intricacies of recoil in older cods. This is the first video of yours I’ve seen in a couple years. I think the recoil and aim assist combo were better in the Cod4 to Blops1 years. A few more guns for comparison would be appropriate in a follow up video like the UZI, SCAR, and MP5 and include Blops1 in the cods you do these test in.
@@GabrielJimenez-de4xi and why do you want a skill gap? lol Skill gaps kill games because eventually a group of people will be too good and the newbies will get discouraged by how much they lose. You want balance in the game and an even spread in skill levels among players. Nowadays people just chase the "meta" gun that has the least recoil and lowest ttk. There isn't really much skill there if certain guns are just inherently superior than the rest.
I think the term is predictable. The Infamous UMP 45 had minimal yet bouncy recoil which made it *sometimes* crap at range despite always being a 3 shot. You'd get occasional hard kicks up and to the right and it at least felt like it would occasionally get longer recenter times. This is how they limited the MP5k to close range. Tap firing weapons in old IW titles though usually got perfect accuracy which doesn't necessarily happen in new games. Tap firing that same UMP would net you virtually no recoil. (not applicable to MP5K for balance again) There's also something that should be noted about strafing bounce. Strafing in some older games would cause you're weapon to bounce to the left and right, up and down quite a lot that would throw off you're aim. And crouching didn't reduce recoil until MW3/BO2
I know recoil used to "max out' and stop going up. E.g. if you spammed the barret 50 it would reach so far up-right that it cant go any further after 2 shots and the rest would all go in the same hole if you spammed
Maybe just me but in standard arena style cod, recoil was never the complaint. Warzone is where it become more of an issue. But the formula should be rather simple. Lower recoil guns should take a noticeable longer time to kill than higher recoil guns. Cold War and vanguard seemed to adjust guns (raven did) for warzone that essentially was just a vertical recoil patter where mw19 guns each seemed to have a unique personality. I prefer mw19s approach and hope they do something similar in mw2 (however, attachments needs a massive rework).
@@Marky-Mark1337 mw19 did a better job of not any gun (speaking warzone) being a laser beam. I’d like to see way more give and take rather than just a clear 5 best attachments. Example, silencer if you want be stealth but is worse at range or worse recoil.
@@Marky-Mark1337 I like this. Still have a purpose but this beam across the map with no punishment is a problem especially when the ARs essentially have no recoil.
Another thing to take into account. Anybody thinking about today's CoD having less recoil than old CoD has been playing this game for 10ish years. You've probably just gotten better. You may not think it, but you're probably just a better player than you were 10 years ago. At least in some aspects.
Guns also feel easier to control now as your now actually controlling recoil especially in warzone. In the older games it's hit scan 4 shots to kill max its not like people needed to actually use a full clip in one pull of the trigger. People don't even remember what the heck the recoil was like on a gun since you didn't really need to actually use all your bullets even on the larger maps.
As much as people want to complain about how “new CoD’s have easier recoil”, remember that in older CoD’s, no one used the guns with high recoil. Outside of camo challenges, who actually used weapons like the AK47 and F2000 in MW2? No one. Everyone used the ACR. The way I see it, the more predictable recoil in newer CoD’s just allows more weapons to be usable and not just left in the dust to be “bad guns” forever
The TAR in MW2 was really good up close if you could control it. Otherwise, you're right. Unless that high recoil weapon was low-key good no one ever uses them.
Not surprised I always new the ACR had the least recoil second place would be the Scar L with Kick attachment. For the SMG's I'd say the MP7 from MW3 would be the winner, even in stock form the recoil is very low. If you add kick it literally has no recoil...
ive noticed that recoil is lower in newer cod games is lower specifically with the smgs, in mw2019 you can lazer someone 50+ meters with an mp5 but in for example bo3 you cant do that cause there is alot more horizontal recoil, which also creates a skill gap
You’re kinda right but it doesn’t create a skill gap because it’s still random in BO3 (it also had ADS spread on SMGs), the movement is the skill gap in that game. BO4 makes more sense, you have to hit 9 shots with SMGs at long range and the recoil is actually controllable if you’re good enough.
To this day I still look fondly back on BO3 and how hard the guns kicked(think vmp, vesper, kn44, manowar). Felt so satisfying to nail that 3 shot kill knowing you had to control some nasty recoil, as well as compensate for advanced movement. I really like when you cant just take an SMG and cross map people like u can in newer games(remember lc10 from cold war, why even bother with ARs). BO3 was really the sweet spot all around for me, too bad we will likely never see anything like it.
Yes, but they’re also significantly slower than they used to be so they needed something to being them back up. Nowadays their handling and strafe speeds are barely better than ARs, worse in some cases actually, and bullet velocity/range are terrible too, so why would anyone use them? SMGs used to be much better than now.
@@RedfernYT yeah people tend to forget if you went against any smg close range in the older cods you were gonna get melted no ar could really keep up but long range ar was a lot better and smg was horrible long range that’s the best balance I shouldn’t be able to build an ar to be an smg and vice versa why is it even in a category if I can change its attachments to compete with another type of gun
@@RedfernYT Not necessarily. The SMG movement in Vanguard is unmatched compared to ARs, significantly faster across the board. In Black Ops Cold War strafing with SMGs was moderately fast and viable compared to ARs which were non existent
I think randomized recoil each time but having a rotation of sorts where it’s randomized to a degree but has a general pattern. Prob best of both world is a sweet spot going forward cus we want it to be realistic also
A big thing to note with recoil, you kill in 3-5 shots. This means 90% of the pattern Ace shows doesn't matter. This means in that random area the M4 and ACR can be farther apart then the 3-5 shots from the M13 or Automaton which are near perfectly static. This means the older guns are much more difficult to control comparatively if you learn the recoil.
I never really thought about this, but this was a super interesting dive into recoil over the years. Honestly, I'm fine if we never have that random crap come back to CoD anytime soon.
*Newer CODs have more recoil* in my opinion but older CODs were simple and to the point. *Furthermore, new CODs have too many sensitivity and movement settings plus the 20 attachments that effects your recoil, accuracy and mobility* when using a weapon. Most cases you can't even burst fire to be more accurate and center your shots because the recoil is so op especially in Black Ops Cold War. *Older CODs specifically BO2 &WW2 were simple Horizontal & Vertical sensitivity settings the recoil was no problem to handle* on any weapon.
It’s not really the recoil I feel increased, it’s the aim assist range and how strong aim assist gotten over the years stronger aim assist at longer distances is gonna make recoil easier to control. Just dumbing down games even more sad tbh
I cant tell you how much I HATE the old system of recoil after coming to this sensible system. You have 0 control over your recoil and gunfights. I find it hard to play a game where you literally can't control where you shoot your gun
I stick with the modern Predictability. It's a new skill ceiling and I'm down for it However, the patterns need to be harsher and a BIT more kicky than a straight line trend. Mounting, as we all agree just needs to go. Another factor which you might've missed to mention is the server hitreg issues. That has reduced BY A HUGE AMOUNT in modern CODs, at least from MW19.
My first real cod experience was CoD4, I played the fuck out of it, I also played the fuck out of MW2, if people think today's CoD has less recoil than MW1/MW2 then they've never played those games. Does anyone remember the ACR and UMP from MW2? How about the g3 and m16 from mw1 Every cod has guns that are laser beams, it's part of the formula
MW19's animation system also introduced a lot more smoothing with most aiming variables. This makes the recoil movement more gradually push out towards the biased direction rather than instantly snapping to the next calculated point. This is a big part of why it feels so buttery smooth. The animations are hand-tuned much more precisely than ever before
Certain guns with Certain attachments in vanguard for example can literally have no initial recoil, in my opinion this is by far the best set up for weapons as you can easily kill an enemy in the amount of bullets within this initial recoil. Zombies on the other hand you would want a set up for continuous accuracy while firing. In these videos the recoil pattern is shown when continuous firing occured but this is not practical in most gun exchanges. The KGM40 for example is by far more accurate than the automotion for the first 5 shots when they both have the right attachments on.
I think I prefer it moreso totally random. My ability to react properly is a skill, just like reacting to massive amounts of flinch back in mw2. I think that stuff would make even really good players miss their shots a bit more, it's more difficult even with less intensity. Idk if specific semi auto guns in mw2 are set up a bit different or in specific way, but guns like the barrette .50 call for sure pretty much exclusively shoots diagonally to the right, at a crazy intensity, maybe the exact level of intensity is slightly different and it's just too hard to tell because of how much there is, but it definitely exclusively goes diagonally up and right, same with the .44 magnum and desert eagle I'm pretty sure. it may be specifically weapons made to have intense magnitude were set up to be predictable. I feel like the f2000s recoil is pretty intense in magnitude and in all kinds of directions, totally unpredictable, probably representative of what the current middle range guns recoil magnitude would look like of it were totally random with similar limits left and right. It also shoots very fast so that's part of it. Lol I want to see a few f2000 recoil plots compared like this.
I don’t recoil patterns got easier but I think it’s just that never cods have stronger aim assist with different options which. And don’t forget that there’s like 8 different grips now, it’s pretty much lowering the skill gap even more every year.
I’ll be completely honest I swear it feels like back then I had no recoil or at least better accuracy than I do these days but it might just be my nostalgia talking
I think in the new modern warfare brought back recoil. Before that almost every gun was a laser beam since the original few titles. Do the same test with say a game like BO4 and you can tell the difference.
I think just using ARs and just using MW games is kind of unfair from an experimental standpoint. I know you came to the conclusion that shooting is easier now, but I think it would be a lot more conclusive if you did the VMP (BO3) vs the AK74u (CW) for example.
I'm thinking it's also from the way the guns have animated recoil. If you ever look at older games, the way the gun bounces off center and the camera drifts, probably makes it harder to understand and control the recoil. It doesn't help that muzzle flash was pretty bad, although flash hider is worthless in 2019(seriously hope MW2 uses the same flash hiders from Cold War. They perfected that)
Newer recoil is definitely preferable. The level of consistency, mixed with the level of fine tuning we as players can exert on the recoil makes it much easier to compensate for. That being said, old CoD recoil isn't that bad if you don't lead-finger the trigger. Short bursts are where it's at on anything outside point-blank.
Recoil on older cods aren't even that hard to control anyways. I think with older games, the fully auto weapons had the guns shaking horizontally a lot more compared to current cod weapons which makes them easier to control.
exactly. These laser beam bs is dumb. There is no longer a point to burst firing when it's easier to just control that spray going completely straight lol
I don’t get these cry babies You’d rather have a gun you can’t use the sights once you fire Becuase the gun bounces so much and you want the actual recoil to aim at the sun after 4 bullets? And do they realize if they return to the old system of recoil there’s just gonna be a literal”use this or don’t even try” weapon?
Ok this has nothing to do with the topic of this video but I was playing Vanguard this morning and something felt different, the SBMM felt a lot looser. I consider myself a well above average player but not great by any means, but I was put into what I like to call a "God lobby" where every other player was actually terrible, like they looked like lost puppies on the map. I dropped my first V2, I didn't actually call it in because I was waiting to die first and that didn't happen. I was playing Kill Confirmed on Sphere and I went 62-1 with 45 tags collected, I've never had a lobby like this in Vanguard. Craziest thing is my next 3 games were all similar, I went 41-4, 48-7, and 51-5 and even after those games I didn't get punished by being put in a crazy high skilled lobby. Maybe it was just something with matchmaking at the time but it seriously felt like the kind of lobbies I would get in older CoDs
I don't know why you make super wishy-washy statements like, "It's not necessarily immediately obvious that modern CoD games have way lower recoil than older games, like many people claim." Not only do modern CoD games NOT have less recoil, they have WAY MORE recoil. I play on controller and always tone aim-assist down as much as possible and it is OBVIOUS that modern CoD games have way more recoil. It was always too easy to keep guns on target in old CoD games.
With a strike pack and or cronus every CoD has no recoil... Easy to spot these but no bans lol tempted to join them, playing legit seems just to be wasting time
Nope, definitely not. The difference is indeed the fact that recoil is PREDICTABLE now, whereas before it was completely random. The people claiming this only seem to argue the case when comparing with high recoil guns in those older CoDs and totally fluff over the guns that people actually used the most back then. Theres a reason everyone always gravitated to the m4s/acr type weapons back then lol.
How is no one mentioning flinch? Old cods had slow sprint to fire and ads (without special perks) and super high visual flinch and impairment. You couldn’t instantly stop sprinting, pull up your sights, strafe at insane speed, and memorize a recoil pattern, without you screen shaking while you’re being shot by a guy with a 3 bar connection. Ultimately the experienced recoil in old cods was much higher in multiple ways. (Also you were worried about holding angles, because nades were actually good… no one had blast shield on in mw2 so every cod before that had little to no counter to explosives. Or you get tubed, or lasered by a harrier out the sky, or white screen flashed for 5 seconds… now you can counter all that, while having 10 attatchments on your gun giving you what used to be called specialist bonus on every life) Old cod was more random and crazy, which made the customization more fun. You had to make choices on how you wanted to play, and they were all viable.
This video makes me wish we could use CW and VG guns in MW19s Ground War...obviously as a separate mode but man that would be awesome. Ground War: ALL WEAPONS
I'm surprised you didn't mention the issue of whether Cronos, scripts, XIM, etc are more effective now. I think that's a lot of the perceived "less recoil" trend.
@@josephpaulduffey873 I wish kill cams were more accurate. But I still will believe they are accurate since the game does not tell me. You all are cheaters!
It’s also worth pointing out that net code and hit registration have improved a lot. Older titles were notorious for poor hit registration.
Correct but guns in older cods were hitscan almost instant there was no bullet velocity like we see now 🤔 👀 😏 😳 😉 🤣
Facts, and how is no one mentioning flinch? Old cods had slow sprint to fire and ads (without special perks) and super high visual flinch and impairment. You couldn’t instantly stop sprinting, pull up your sights, strafe at insane speed, and memorize a recoil pattern, without you screen shaking while you’re being shot by a guy with a 3 bar connection. Ultimately the experienced recoil in old cods was much higher in multiple ways. (Also you were worried about holding angles, because nades were actually good… no one had blast shield on in mw2 so every cod before that had little to no counter to explosives. Or you get tubed, or lasered by a harrier out the sky, or white screen flashed for 5 seconds… now you can counter all that, while having 10 attatchments on your gun giving you what used to be called specialist bonus on every life) Old cod was more random and crazy, which made the customization more fun. You had to make choices on how you wanted to play, and they were all viable.
Game still deletes a lot of my shots
Infinity Ward has always had good hit registration . Treyarch was the one with it being rubbish
Its the same for TTK
Being able to increase your FOV in modern games probably makes the recoil look less prevalent too :)
Fov only effects visual recoil not actual recoil
@@COALEDasICE Visual recoil is the only hard part about recoil in Cod
@@JohnSmith-zk3kd Id disagree with that. Mw2 ak47 had horrible visual recoil. Where as mw19 has actual recoil. In mw2 you'd be shooting straight, but the AK was hiding the enemy. Mw19 doesn't have guns like that
@@NeightrixPrime you also have less target to hit it's all relative. As you're scaling stuff
It's wild that many people complain about recoil on new games, but forget about how random recoil patterns were before Bo4
There’s not enough of a skill gap when it comes to recoil because of how extreme of a difference the recoil control attachment make. Give literally all weapons 5-7% more overall recoil in terms of magnitude and variance from side to side, and there comes a massive skill gap.
I honestly miss how almost every gun had their own different recoil pattern
@SneakyJackAttack dude it’s cod, the series was designed for Arcady casual. Go to siege or some thing like csgo if you want skill gap.
@@sneakyjackattack why does there need to be a skill gap in order to just fire the gun?
The MP-40 in waw was super strong but only good up close. If you play it now, the recoil is stupid random and high for the first few shots.
I remember the ak-47 in MW2 being reasonably accurate but suffering from the iron sights bouncing up over the view of your target. Should have shown them the F2000, now that sucker bounced all over the place. Loved it all the same. Tar-21 would have been another good choice.
Another factor (one I wouldn't be able to judge for sure without trying to stop the video) is muzzle flash. I kinda want to say that older cods had more muzzle flash generally speaking which made it harder to stay on target? But then I remember the sheer amount of smoke and dust that just.... exists in general in Vanguard and I'm less sure.
Not only was the f2000 recoil crazy but it sounded like shit. I hated it
I'd say that in general 6v6, there is likely little difference. However, in Warzone where gunfights take place at much longer ranges, the guns from previous Cods would be impossible to use. This ties in to the range aim assist you talked about but I genuinely believe it's the thing most people are noticing. A COD4 RPD could not laser someone the way you can build a Bren etc
which is good since you actually have to snipe at very long ranges
A MW2 ACR would though. Hell, almost any gun from that game had super low recoil.
An addition to your ''Why Guns Feel More ''Accurate'' Now'' part:
Players have gotten better. If you've been around since COD4 or MW2, you've been around for a long time. You might have picked up those games when you were a kid or in HS, and they might have been your very first FPS. Your awareness of the behaviour of your guns were likely a lot worse, and even if you have never actually trained things like recoil management and snapping through third party programs, you have naturally gotten better at those things over time. It sits in your muscle memory.
I could probably handle an AK in MW19 with no attachments today better than my 9-year old self would handle an M4 in COD4 - because I was garbage at the game. People might forget just how bad they were 12-14 years ago, even though it definitely plays into their perception of guns being easier to use now than it was back then.
I feel like this argument of players naturally getting better at FPSes over time is overlooked not only in this discussion, but in many other discussions regarding many other games when players ask ''why things are easier now than it was before''. Sometimes we forget just how much has changed since the 2000s/early 2010s, both in the industry as a whole but more importantly in this case our general skill level.
I don't really agree to that. There are tons of kids that are just now playing cod these days and a lot of them are just as good or if not better than some long-term cod players that have been playing since the early days. I think it's a lot more to do with how much more accurate controllers are these days. They have almost no deadzones on the analog sticks and you can be extremely precise now. Especially in newer cods on the newer engine, for some reason they really nailed the aiming feel when playing on consoles. I noticed how much more accurate mw2019 was when I played the alpha compared to bo4 which I was just playing before that. If you go back and play bo3 now it's insanely jarring how much harder it is to aim in that game due to there being no deadzone options and just being an older cod. It also probably had less aim assist as well.
Oh no! Kids will always be better than us. They learn faster. They learn the game like they learn their first language. I was about 15 during CoD4's life cycle. It took maybe a month but I was hitting headshots fine after that. It was my 2nd Online MP on Xbox and 1st CoD game. I played Rainbow Six Vegas before that. You could say it was a harder game but ADS wasn't a thing before an update to it.
The games have gotten easier but there are also more available resources for info. Newer kids have no barriers in terms to "get good" at the game. The games offer lots of assistance and RUclips gives easy info. Because of this, The Skill Gap has been shortened. The games have gotten easier. It's better for the industry.
That’s not the problem, when you get a fast ttk with no recoil and then add 50+ mags it becomes more of a problem when people had 30 at most
100% agreed. I've been saying this for ages, that a skilled player today; some sweatbag with the mastery Camo who gets nukes or gets 15+ lill SnD games was to play to old school professional Cod4; they could 300% hold their own and do well.
@@musicimpact7120 controllers arent exactly accurate lol
I believe they increased aim assist range because of crossplay to help controllers compete with keyboard and mouse. Not surprised be the recoil though. I would like to see some more horizontal recoil added to guns, especially in warzone. Getting beamed by an assault rifle 200 meters away probably shouldnt be so easy.
I 👍 🙆♂️ 💯
I feel like they should’ve never introduced console to PC crossplay
@@knrz2562 👇👍👍✊🤘👍🤚👌😉😏✌😚🤚🤜🤟💅
Seriously. I thought it was a good idea at first to increase player counts and make matchmaking easier, but it ends up being a mess trying to balance mouse + keyboard against controllers, not even mentioning PC players getting FOV sliders and that giving them an advantage over consoles regardless of input methods.
@@andreivaldez2929 not to mention extremely high refresh rates for incredibly low input latency
Really interesting video. I remember us all thinking the F200 was waaaaay too much recoil to useable, but there was always that one guy that somehow had 0 kick with it 😆
You mean the 12 years old video about F2000 showcase? Yeah, he's really skilled with that gun.
Any "fast ROF-low damage-moderate to high recoil" assault rifles are really useful than they think, as long as they play to its strength.
Guns do certainly have more recoil, but having a consistent recoil pattern allows players to practice and master a gun's behavior, whereas this wasn't possible before.
Also, another point about your video and the attachments: even though players can significantly reduce recoil by opting for specific attachments, they would rarely go all out on doing so (aka specifically building a gun just tor recoil reduction) as a lot of those attachments bring penalties for the gun. So, actual impact of the gunsmith in dampening the recoil isn't as widespread as you pictured....
At least in vanilla multiplayer. In warzone however, your assumption might be more true to life
BO2 was the first competitive cod where it had ranked play and a COD world championship and I remember none of those pro players can shoot 60-70m with AR or beyond 30m with SMG whereas pro players with SMG can now laser with 40-50m away and pro players with AR can laser across berlin/guvutu hardpoint in vanguard.. I remember gun guides from BO2 had the "predictible" recoil pattern unlike MW1 or MW2, so those had the pattern but far less accurate
New cods have more recoil but are more predictable. Overall I think it evens out for the most part
If you can control the recoil because it's a pattern compared to random shots in a circle which would you choose. The controlled pattern right?!
@@FRESH___ Ngl I’d honestly prefer the random recoil, it’s only in a certain area and just looks way easier to handle. If the ak47 really is the worst for recoil in those games then that’s pretty easy to play with. The acr and m4 literally had no recoil to lol
@@orangeondaxbox2768 random recoil has no skill involved, every bullet casing is a flipping coin
Recoil patterns provide something to learn and improve at, letting you know when you really mastered the weapon, when you can slap with it with no recoil attachments
I prefer being able to learn and improve at something rather than pray and believe it'll work
What I liked about COD4 was that the high damage high recoil guns like the ak47 or mp44 (stg44), were in a way designed to be tap fired at long ranges because of that randomness applied to their recoil. With that system in place we would have a much higher skill ceiling in recoil control, since you can't beam people full auto at long ranges, therefore having a more realistic feel for the game.
The ak47 in cod 4 had barely any recoil
@@rommelthedesertfox3089 nope. You’re tripping. It had a lot of recoil. And it bounced up and down. But because it was predicable, it wasn’t too difficult to control. The volume of recoil was still a lot.
@@bobdarrick2628 lol naw u just can’t handle recoil if u think the ak47 from cod 4 had a lot of recoil it had more than the other guns but just barely sounds like u need to practice how to control ur recoil
@@rommelthedesertfox3089 I’m talking about in the game. I’ve played Battlefield and R6S. CoD has no recoil compared to Siege. Compared to BF, CoD has low recoil. In general CoD doesn’t have much recoil. Most assault rifles are pretty accurate. The ICR-1 was basically useless in BO3 (in Mp, it was really good in Zombies) because it killed slow and other guns were accurate enough to make this gun not worth using.
@@bobdarrick2628 I’ve played battlefield and rainbow 6 siege too as well as hell let loose and insurgency sandstorm and the ak47 in cod 4 had minimal recoil
I wish we have the recoil style of modern cods, but with way more recoil.
Go play Sandstorm, problem solved
Recoil now feels MUCH more than the past wtf 😅. To be fair; we won't always be using the biggest barrel with a grip and compensator in MP. I think part of it is that players have gotten MUCH better too
i think the biggest change modern cod has that theres a million attachments that reduce recoil which older cods did not have
^this. The attachments dumb down every weapon so much that theyre basically all the same.
Wish the grips were all the same statistically and just became cosmetics for the same attachment.
@@42ZaphodB42 do they though? Yeah the attachments help you have a set of guns built to compliment your play style but they do have they're differences like fire rate, accuracy and range. Like sure I can put the same type of attachments on my as44 and stg but I'd rather run into someone in a room holding the as44 and I'd rather shoot at someone 100m away with my stg
@@B4NSHEE_WITH_A_4 Yeah sure, you can cherrypick two guns and theyre not the same. Yet you can literally cram all long-range ars in one bucket and theyre basically the same. Just minute stat differences, when in the end just dps matters. And I dont think that theres too much build diversity, everyone picks meta attachments anyway or else they get clapped.
@@42ZaphodB42 yeah you've got a point. I'm starting to get sick of the "new season guns are meta along with 1 or 2 random ones that get buffed into it (NZ 41) and then everything else is either "viable" or just down right underpowered. Wanna use a mw smg? Better not run into someone using a blixen 😂😂and it's not just ttk, I've gotten so used to the vanguard movement speed that it feels like I'm running through mud whenever I try to mess around with anything pre vanguard integration
this is a really interesting video idea, great job ace!
One thing that might be more on the speculative side but is still worth mentioning, is that the core playerbase of CoD is better at the game now compared to 10+ years ago.
This isn’t speculation, it’s 1000% true. If you dropped an average player today into 2012 their KD would jump to like 1.5
Hey ace, as someone that said their is less recoil, my issue is WZ not MP. I feel in WZ it just become what gun has the least recoil and use that to beam people 200 meters away.
this might sound odd but if that added in a recoil system that weapons has like maybe 3 recoil patten not random but enouth to make people have to learn the weapons more
the patten could random change out the 3 after the patten is done, its why i'v always enjoyed MP more then WZ but sadly at the moment VG is kinda dead
as always I do enjoy your weapon in-depth
Omg look at the ACR recoil pattern 😂
Greatest gun of all time.
I play mw remastered all the time. I can say for certain that basically every gun except for the pistols, g3, m16 and bolt snipers have a lot of randomness to the recoil. You can not beam people at distance like you can in new cod and warzone. You either spray and pray for do controlled bursts in an effort to hit more shots. It’s a skill in itself.
Skorpion would like a word.
I find the older games to be much more unpredictable and significantly harder to control.
Yes, because a lot of it was RNG and luck while now it’s more mechanical skill and muscle memory.
@@ruski77 Yeah. I definitely prefer the new way
Old cods were great. Guns in real life don't really have super predictable recoil.
"Spray and pray" kinda lost its meaning as recoil can still be accurate when spraying.
@@ch3ckm8
All the guns I've fired had super predictable recoil. I don't know what you're talking about.
@@ivanivanovic5857 lol while spraying? You're supposed to burst fire guns for accuracy not spray
For the AK47 comparison you could have used the ak from cold war, really accurate gun
I was just thinking about recoil over the years, perfect
For me, the guns in older CODs felt more jittery and sporadic
i know the black ops 4 ICR with the 2 grip attachments could dump a mag into 2 bullet holes. that was the epitome of a laser, outside of the real laser guns in the advanced cods
An actual no recoil gun. The term "no recoil" is thrown around too much.
Black ops4 had best gun balance
@@jolbertti7421 Dlc would like to have a word with you
He must not have experienced the VMP, because that thing was broken and in loot boxes only.
@@acx2035 Also the micro, stingray, reaver, flashlight shotgun, mozu skull splitter, and maybe more.
Are you sure that SMGs are not a lot less recoiling now? I remember SMGs having a lot of kick back in the times
SMG have a looooot more recoil, trust me.
You neglected to mention that in order to get that optimal recoil pattern for the MW2019 AK-47, you have to deal with REALLY hefty handling penalties. So even though you can get a recoil pattern that may be easier to control than older games, you're gonna be really struggling to deal with fast paced fights
Yeah that AK build is a halfway LMG.
Not if you convert it to 5.45X39
I’m not a huge fan of some of the more recent cods, but one thing I will complement is the new recoil system. It does make guns feel more unique and masterable.
That’s something that kinda drives me away from the older CoDs, other than bad netcode.
IMO older cods had decent amounts of recoil across the board. Fast forward to today and every gun can become a laser
Dunno if you called it recoil or bloom…back then recoil are all random to point that first bullet don’t even have the accurate at where you aim at. So what exactly is real life recoil be? It actually the gun shaking that cause bullets shift like in tarkov not base on “random”. Old cod use laser hit box not trying to replicate projectile so bloom is the only way to replicate “recoil”. Because it is randomise make you hard to control so you would think it have more recoil but in truth there’s no “recoil”.
Was never a fan of random recoil but honestly I never noticed it in the older CoDs. I DEFINITLY noticed it in older Battlefields (everything 4 and before). Having to fight enemies at longer ranges and not being able to trust your weapon's sights was SOOOO frustrating. I got used to it and I do love Battlefield, but I will say BF1 and BFV had better systems. Random recoil in BF1 was based on your weapon class and was easier to understand and of course BFV had recoil patterns where your bullets went exactly where you aimed. Sure recoil was a bit wild in BFV but that just meant controlling and bursting had direct visual feedback rather then guessing like in older Battlefields
As a PC player I think your controller and predictability arguments are quite valid. When I saw the title I laughed that anyone would think the new games have less recoil... but when considering the advancements associated with controllers and predictable recoil, I can see how people could feel that way.
Also on the topic of attachments, if you wanna spec for the laser beam recoil then you're giving up attachment slots that could be used for other things.
I loved the MW2019 guns and I hope the new MW2 is more of the same
Haven’t you done this video before? I swear I remember watching this already
Thank you ace for explaining the intricacies of recoil in older cods. This is the first video of yours I’ve seen in a couple years. I think the recoil and aim assist combo were better in the Cod4 to Blops1 years. A few more guns for comparison would be appropriate in a follow up video like the UZI, SCAR, and MP5 and include Blops1 in the cods you do these test in.
i miss cod4 man. The guns really feel like they have their own character. Nowadays, any gun can be used like a laser beam lol
@@ch3ckm8 yes, however the skill gap is higher and less random this way because theres less randomness in the gun and more controlling the recoil
@@GabrielJimenez-de4xi and why do you want a skill gap? lol
Skill gaps kill games because eventually a group of people will be too good and the newbies will get discouraged by how much they lose. You want balance in the game and an even spread in skill levels among players. Nowadays people just chase the "meta" gun that has the least recoil and lowest ttk. There isn't really much skill there if certain guns are just inherently superior than the rest.
I think the term is predictable. The Infamous UMP 45 had minimal yet bouncy recoil which made it *sometimes* crap at range despite always being a 3 shot. You'd get occasional hard kicks up and to the right and it at least felt like it would occasionally get longer recenter times. This is how they limited the MP5k to close range. Tap firing weapons in old IW titles though usually got perfect accuracy which doesn't necessarily happen in new games. Tap firing that same UMP would net you virtually no recoil. (not applicable to MP5K for balance again)
There's also something that should be noted about strafing bounce. Strafing in some older games would cause you're weapon to bounce to the left and right, up and down quite a lot that would throw off you're aim. And crouching didn't reduce recoil until MW3/BO2
Exactly. That intentional burst firing takes a lot of skills. Now you can just spray and you're still gonna be accurate as a laser beam lmfao.
pretty sure that cross hair got smaller when you crouch in cod4
I know recoil used to "max out' and stop going up. E.g. if you spammed the barret 50 it would reach so far up-right that it cant go any further after 2 shots and the rest would all go in the same hole if you spammed
Maybe just me but in standard arena style cod, recoil was never the complaint. Warzone is where it become more of an issue. But the formula should be rather simple. Lower recoil guns should take a noticeable longer time to kill than higher recoil guns. Cold War and vanguard seemed to adjust guns (raven did) for warzone that essentially was just a vertical recoil patter where mw19 guns each seemed to have a unique personality. I prefer mw19s approach and hope they do something similar in mw2 (however, attachments needs a massive rework).
@@Marky-Mark1337 mw19 did a better job of not any gun (speaking warzone) being a laser beam. I’d like to see way more give and take rather than just a clear 5 best attachments. Example, silencer if you want be stealth but is worse at range or worse recoil.
@@Marky-Mark1337 I like this. Still have a purpose but this beam across the map with no punishment is a problem especially when the ARs essentially have no recoil.
Another thing to take into account. Anybody thinking about today's CoD having less recoil than old CoD has been playing this game for 10ish years. You've probably just gotten better. You may not think it, but you're probably just a better player than you were 10 years ago. At least in some aspects.
Guns also feel easier to control now as your now actually controlling recoil especially in warzone.
In the older games it's hit scan 4 shots to kill max its not like people needed to actually use a full clip in one pull of the trigger. People don't even remember what the heck the recoil was like on a gun since you didn't really need to actually use all your bullets even on the larger maps.
As much as people want to complain about how “new CoD’s have easier recoil”, remember that in older CoD’s, no one used the guns with high recoil. Outside of camo challenges, who actually used weapons like the AK47 and F2000 in MW2? No one. Everyone used the ACR. The way I see it, the more predictable recoil in newer CoD’s just allows more weapons to be usable and not just left in the dust to be “bad guns” forever
The TAR in MW2 was really good up close if you could control it. Otherwise, you're right. Unless that high recoil weapon was low-key good no one ever uses them.
I used the ak47 in mw2 and I muerdered with it
Plus with attachments you can make some guns you would never touch base actually usable and even good
WHAT 😳 AK 47 IN MW2 WAS GODLY
Not surprised I always new the ACR had the least recoil second place would be the Scar L with Kick attachment. For the SMG's I'd say the MP7 from MW3 would be the winner, even in stock form the recoil is very low. If you add kick it literally has no recoil...
ive noticed that recoil is lower in newer cod games is lower specifically with the smgs, in mw2019 you can lazer someone 50+ meters with an mp5 but in for example bo3 you cant do that cause there is alot more horizontal recoil, which also creates a skill gap
You’re kinda right but it doesn’t create a skill gap because it’s still random in BO3 (it also had ADS spread on SMGs), the movement is the skill gap in that game. BO4 makes more sense, you have to hit 9 shots with SMGs at long range and the recoil is actually controllable if you’re good enough.
All you have to do is look at the mw2 acr and there’s your answer
I'd say it's a mix of the patterns and the fully customizable sensitivitys
Its much easier to control recoil in the new ones than the old but the recoil is not less or more
I remember in cod 4 the m4, g3 and mp5 would all pretty much shoot through the same hole the first 20 rounds of a mag lol
I remember MW2's AK-47 having way too much sight wobble despite being very accurate.it was my main weapon back then nonethless lol.
To this day I still look fondly back on BO3 and how hard the guns kicked(think vmp, vesper, kn44, manowar). Felt so satisfying to nail that 3 shot kill knowing you had to control some nasty recoil, as well as compensate for advanced movement. I really like when you cant just take an SMG and cross map people like u can in newer games(remember lc10 from cold war, why even bother with ARs). BO3 was really the sweet spot all around for me, too bad we will likely never see anything like it.
Ive been playing it recently and its so fun man. I miss a good cod cuz the new ones aint for me
Old CODs felt like shit with that horrible recoil system they had on top of not having the ability to turn off Look Acceleration.
Should have definitely tested SMGs as well. Some of the biggest complaints are how accurate they are compared to ARs since maybe BO4
Yes, but they’re also significantly slower than they used to be so they needed something to being them back up. Nowadays their handling and strafe speeds are barely better than ARs, worse in some cases actually, and bullet velocity/range are terrible too, so why would anyone use them? SMGs used to be much better than now.
@@RedfernYT yeah people tend to forget if you went against any smg close range in the older cods you were gonna get melted no ar could really keep up but long range ar was a lot better and smg was horrible long range that’s the best balance I shouldn’t be able to build an ar to be an smg and vice versa why is it even in a category if I can change its attachments to compete with another type of gun
@@RedfernYT Not necessarily. The SMG movement in Vanguard is unmatched compared to ARs, significantly faster across the board. In Black Ops Cold War strafing with SMGs was moderately fast and viable compared to ARs which were non existent
@@emanueltorres7025 yeah the balance in old cods were very very good. I had a lot of fun switching guns because they all feel so unique.
No but they have wayyy less aim assist which makes everyone seem to die so much faster nowadays.
I think randomized recoil each time but having a rotation of sorts where it’s randomized to a degree but has a general pattern. Prob best of both world is a sweet spot going forward cus we want it to be realistic also
Believe it or not, there are some people who denies call of duty to being supposed to be realistic lol
This is why people wanting some of the old guns in mw2 are going to be in for a rude awakening lol
A big thing to note with recoil, you kill in 3-5 shots. This means 90% of the pattern Ace shows doesn't matter.
This means in that random area the M4 and ACR can be farther apart then the 3-5 shots from the M13 or Automaton which are near perfectly static. This means the older guns are much more difficult to control comparatively if you learn the recoil.
Yes, but player accuracy is usually around 25-35%. Plus recoil still matters for the first 5 shots
Your not gonna hit every single shot at long distances
I love when people say recoil is less on games like MW2019... BO4 however took no skill in terms of recoil control.
I never really thought about this, but this was a super interesting dive into recoil over the years. Honestly, I'm fine if we never have that random crap come back to CoD anytime soon.
Old CoDs had zero recoil compared to today. Kids say the craziest things! lol
Kids probably using their warzone max recoil control loadouts like "omg theres like no recoil in new cods anymore". I wonder why.
THATS RIGHT MURDA! They just dont know. They aint old enough. All guns back then had no recoil.
*Newer CODs have more recoil* in my opinion but older CODs were simple and to the point. *Furthermore, new CODs have too many sensitivity and movement settings plus the 20 attachments that effects your recoil, accuracy and mobility* when using a weapon. Most cases you can't even burst fire to be more accurate and center your shots because the recoil is so op especially in Black Ops Cold War.
*Older CODs specifically BO2 &WW2 were simple Horizontal & Vertical sensitivity settings the recoil was no problem to handle* on any weapon.
It’s not really the recoil I feel increased, it’s the aim assist range and how strong aim assist gotten over the years stronger aim assist at longer distances is gonna make recoil easier to control. Just dumbing down games even more sad tbh
All I remember was no recoil in bo2 except the scorpion, an 94
Smgs have way less recoil than they used to
I cant tell you how much I HATE the old system of recoil after coming to this sensible system. You have 0 control over your recoil and gunfights. I find it hard to play a game where you literally can't control where you shoot your gun
I stick with the modern Predictability. It's a new skill ceiling and I'm down for it
However, the patterns need to be harsher and a BIT more kicky than a straight line trend. Mounting, as we all agree just needs to go.
Another factor which you might've missed to mention is the server hitreg issues. That has reduced BY A HUGE AMOUNT in modern CODs, at least from MW19.
My first real cod experience was CoD4, I played the fuck out of it, I also played the fuck out of MW2, if people think today's CoD has less recoil than MW1/MW2 then they've never played those games.
Does anyone remember the ACR and UMP from MW2?
How about the g3 and m16 from mw1
Every cod has guns that are laser beams, it's part of the formula
Im honestly just suprised you didn't include Black Ops 1. That game had a lot more recoil overall compared to other CoD games in general.
MW19's animation system also introduced a lot more smoothing with most aiming variables. This makes the recoil movement more gradually push out towards the biased direction rather than instantly snapping to the next calculated point. This is a big part of why it feels so buttery smooth. The animations are hand-tuned much more precisely than ever before
Certain guns with Certain attachments in vanguard for example can literally have no initial recoil, in my opinion this is by far the best set up for weapons as you can easily kill an enemy in the amount of bullets within this initial recoil.
Zombies on the other hand you would want a set up for continuous accuracy while firing.
In these videos the recoil pattern is shown when continuous firing occured but this is not practical in most gun exchanges.
The KGM40 for example is by far more accurate than the automotion for the first 5 shots when they both have the right attachments on.
i remember in mw2 using bling (2 attachments perk ) silencer and a red dot was really smooth , like butter, a laser.
I think I prefer it moreso totally random. My ability to react properly is a skill, just like reacting to massive amounts of flinch back in mw2. I think that stuff would make even really good players miss their shots a bit more, it's more difficult even with less intensity. Idk if specific semi auto guns in mw2 are set up a bit different or in specific way, but guns like the barrette .50 call for sure pretty much exclusively shoots diagonally to the right, at a crazy intensity, maybe the exact level of intensity is slightly different and it's just too hard to tell because of how much there is, but it definitely exclusively goes diagonally up and right, same with the .44 magnum and desert eagle I'm pretty sure. it may be specifically weapons made to have intense magnitude were set up to be predictable. I feel like the f2000s recoil is pretty intense in magnitude and in all kinds of directions, totally unpredictable, probably representative of what the current middle range guns recoil magnitude would look like of it were totally random with similar limits left and right. It also shoots very fast so that's part of it. Lol I want to see a few f2000 recoil plots compared like this.
I don’t recoil patterns got easier but I think it’s just that never cods have stronger aim assist with different options which. And don’t forget that there’s like 8 different grips now, it’s pretty much lowering the skill gap even more every year.
I'm curious why you didn't use treyarch cods for the analysis?
Old CoDs have more randomness. New CoDs have more magnitude.
I’ll be completely honest I swear it feels like back then I had no recoil or at least better accuracy than I do these days but it might just be my nostalgia talking
The answer is "yes,if you attachments minimizing it"
I think in the new modern warfare brought back recoil. Before that almost every gun was a laser beam since the original few titles. Do the same test with say a game like BO4 and you can tell the difference.
Also the feeling of the ak in mw2019 is so satisfying it feels *hefty*
As opposed to older cods where it just
🦟🦗🦟🦗🦟🦗🦟
Dont watch video yet, but recoil in CoD2 was insane, CoD4 guns feels like laser after Thompson from CoD2.
The Kilo 141 wasn’t more accurate than the M13?
I like the older aiming system or rather I didn’t think anything was wrong with it . But that could also just be me preferring older cods in general
I think just using ARs and just using MW games is kind of unfair from an experimental standpoint. I know you came to the conclusion that shooting is easier now, but I think it would be a lot more conclusive if you did the VMP (BO3) vs the AK74u (CW) for example.
also I know bo3 isn't really an "old" cod but I feel like the slide cancel Era is when the change happened
What about with recoil increasing attachments? Also wish we had gyro/motion sensor aiming
There is basically no recoil in the older CODs.
More recoil with a more predictable pattern made for less presumed recoil overall, makes sense
I'm thinking it's also from the way the guns have animated recoil. If you ever look at older games, the way the gun bounces off center and the camera drifts, probably makes it harder to understand and control the recoil. It doesn't help that muzzle flash was pretty bad, although flash hider is worthless in 2019(seriously hope MW2 uses the same flash hiders from Cold War. They perfected that)
There are some guns in warzone that have crazy animated recoil but the bullets still hit accurately. It just looks goofy.
@@minisithunknown5568 is it the newer ones? I haven't been playing cold war or vanguard guns since I only was active during MW era
Newer recoil is definitely preferable. The level of consistency, mixed with the level of fine tuning we as players can exert on the recoil makes it much easier to compensate for.
That being said, old CoD recoil isn't that bad if you don't lead-finger the trigger. Short bursts are where it's at on anything outside point-blank.
Recoil on older cods aren't even that hard to control anyways. I think with older games, the fully auto weapons had the guns shaking horizontally a lot more compared to current cod weapons which makes them easier to control.
exactly. These laser beam bs is dumb. There is no longer a point to burst firing when it's easier to just control that spray going completely straight lol
I thought predictive recoil plots started in black ops 4? Idk I could be wrong
Imagine cod players today trying to control the F2000 from MW2? Yikes
another thing to remember: older cods were generally modeled around the consoles! much harder to "control" the "recoil" back when it was "new"
I don’t get these cry babies
You’d rather have a gun you can’t use the sights once you fire Becuase the gun bounces so much and you want the actual recoil to aim at the sun after 4 bullets?
And do they realize if they return to the old system of recoil there’s just gonna be a literal”use this or don’t even try” weapon?
Does recoil really matter with a large majority of people on controller using Cronus max, or products like it.
I remember playing MWR and the M4 carbine was doing donuts on my screen. I don’t know how to control donut recoil.
Help
Ok this has nothing to do with the topic of this video but I was playing Vanguard this morning and something felt different, the SBMM felt a lot looser. I consider myself a well above average player but not great by any means, but I was put into what I like to call a "God lobby" where every other player was actually terrible, like they looked like lost puppies on the map. I dropped my first V2, I didn't actually call it in because I was waiting to die first and that didn't happen.
I was playing Kill Confirmed on Sphere and I went 62-1 with 45 tags collected, I've never had a lobby like this in Vanguard. Craziest thing is my next 3 games were all similar, I went 41-4, 48-7, and 51-5 and even after those games I didn't get punished by being put in a crazy high skilled lobby.
Maybe it was just something with matchmaking at the time but it seriously felt like the kind of lobbies I would get in older CoDs
I don't know why you make super wishy-washy statements like, "It's not necessarily immediately obvious that modern CoD games have way lower recoil than older games, like many people claim." Not only do modern CoD games NOT have less recoil, they have WAY MORE recoil. I play on controller and always tone aim-assist down as much as possible and it is OBVIOUS that modern CoD games have way more recoil. It was always too easy to keep guns on target in old CoD games.
With a strike pack and or cronus every CoD has no recoil... Easy to spot these but no bans lol tempted to join them, playing legit seems just to be wasting time
Black ops 3 has literally 0 recoil. I was shocked when playing it the other day.
I'm glad what they did with the new recoils in the latest CoD games. That random bouncy popcorn BS can take a hike!
Nope, definitely not. The difference is indeed the fact that recoil is PREDICTABLE now, whereas before it was completely random. The people claiming this only seem to argue the case when comparing with high recoil guns in those older CoDs and totally fluff over the guns that people actually used the most back then. Theres a reason everyone always gravitated to the m4s/acr type weapons back then lol.
How is no one mentioning flinch? Old cods had slow sprint to fire and ads (without special perks) and super high visual flinch and impairment. You couldn’t instantly stop sprinting, pull up your sights, strafe at insane speed, and memorize a recoil pattern, without you screen shaking while you’re being shot by a guy with a 3 bar connection. Ultimately the experienced recoil in old cods was much higher in multiple ways. (Also you were worried about holding angles, because nades were actually good… no one had blast shield on in mw2 so every cod before that had little to no counter to explosives. Or you get tubed, or lasered by a harrier out the sky, or white screen flashed for 5 seconds… now you can counter all that, while having 10 attatchments on your gun giving you what used to be called specialist bonus on every life) Old cod was more random and crazy, which made the customization more fun. You had to make choices on how you wanted to play, and they were all viable.
This video makes me wish we could use CW and VG guns in MW19s Ground War...obviously as a separate mode but man that would be awesome. Ground War: ALL WEAPONS
I'm surprised you didn't mention the issue of whether Cronos, scripts, XIM, etc are more effective now. I think that's a lot of the perceived "less recoil" trend.
This was done from the perspective of the player, not the enemy
@@TheXclusiveAce It seems to me that the majority of recoil complaints I've heard over the past few years are the receiving end and killcams 🤷
@@josephpaulduffey873 I wish kill cams were more accurate. But I still will believe they are accurate since the game does not tell me. You all are cheaters!
Insane people could even think this. Another great example would be the COD4 Deagle and Barrett. Try to spam them in MW19 like you can in COD4 lmao