NEW BUILD WIRING Unprotected meter tails fabric of building
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- Опубликовано: 3 дек 2020
- Electrician working for a subscriber installing new sockets and lighting.
Cheapest Hager consumer unit money can buy.
What are your thoughts on tails buried in the fabric of the building with no additional protection or mechanical protection?
As always Instagram page is here if you care if not thanks for watching.
/ cjrelectrical
This video is for entertainment purposes only please dont try to copy or recreate this video in anyway. Do so at your own peril!!! 
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You're my joint favourite online electrician because you do normal jobs for normal people. I don't have any interest in people upgrading their tesla charging point so it matches the colour of little Trinny's pony.
Yes I have super grown to like this channel. It's not another variation on a theme of an EV Charger
One of the essential skills of an apprentice is to be able to "play along". James certainly does that well!
The screwdriver less lockoffs are a much better to use than fiddling about with a screwdriver...
Great video guys.. 🎯
The most important part of being an electrician is safety. For yourself, your colleagues and the customer. Giving him the responsibility to make the CU safe prior to any work instills a massive responsibility and a great foundation for the other elements of electrical installation.
Love your content awesome and nice to see James still working hard.
Great video, loved the energy between you guys too. Keep it up!
So great never done a bodge job always ready slag everybody’s work, well done perfection you are
Chris...thankyou, Thankyou, Thankyou for giving apprentices a shout James like Adam will be a great sparky he is listening to you and learning. Kudos to ideal and all the manufacturers giving you stuff for your apprentice he is fortunate.
You make it look easy Chris , your work better than the new build itself 😂
Hi Chris I remember years ago building companies would have bonus schemes , to encourage people to work faster. Electricians were not permitted to enter in to such agreements for obvious reasons. But of course companies just went over to competitive pricing to achieve the same results . As you rightly say you can’t blame the electricians, but I do think it’s unfair of companies to encourage unrealistic competitive pricing. It’s not good for electricians and it’s certainly not good for the industry. You and your fellow utubers are beckons of light . Bless you 😀👍
A builder I do work for offered me a kicking if I didn’t have the power on that night!! It definitely made me go quicker he was a big lad 😂
That's why I left as an electrician everything was a rush no care about safety or doing a fine job all about filling the bosses pockets up with money. Stress levels where so high I had a breakdown from over working and not enough time to do the job and somethings working 14 hours day's with a 30 minute break definitely not a nice place to be 😪
He’s a lucky lad is James. 😀
I follow your channel all the time its like your a friend i dont know
As a non electrition i have learnd what standard of work i should expect when i chose an electrition
Chris you are a top bloke...down to earth guy...not too bad at electrics either
Nice present from Ideal 😎
Keep up the hard work and thanks for the awesome content stay safe and take care
Your brilliant with the apprentice
James will have a full tool kit in no time..👍🏻
Great job and video like always
I remember when my house was being rewired, I suggested dropping a cable down a cavity: the sparks (an ace one), told me that one shouldn't run in a cavity, as this will "breach the cavity". I was a sparks once upon a time, so was quite involved in the design of the system.
Happy to have ads enabled on my favourite creator's channels. A shame you're not near Derbyshire as you'd be the electrician I'd call :)
Lucky lad, lockoff kit, tester, proving unit, kits... Nice
Suggestion: I have a stubby terminal size driver (I made it myself with a grinder and a worn out terminal driver lol) that I keep in the locking off kit, for awkward breakers like that one
15:36 is where a whisk attachment is ideal
Nice work Chris 👏 I always watch your videos 📹 I'm also from Oxford. I did my level 2 and 3 in blackbirdleys college a few years ago 😁 Passed my 18th Edition yesterday in Witney, Oxford Energy Academy 👍
How hard was the 18th?Section 4 and 5 I'm struggling with (speed)☹
I am really enjoying these videos.
Re. Outside socket, I would have put a 20 A switch/13 A sf & time clock next to the inside socket you spurred from.
Seen it in a lot of new builds can't blame the spark tho there given a very short time to get the job done or it comes out of there pay
Enjoyed this vid. Im quite astonished at what passes for flooring joists nowadays. Doesnt make want to buy a new build anytime soon whoever makes them. As you correctly say, the electrician's are on a price on these jobs, but really....... great vid though, really interesting.
Nice work
Those universal lock off kits are an absolute must, life savers pardon the pun
Your so brilliant
been waiting all week for this !! Love your videos mate
Top Video again lads, I ve always drilled the drain hole since watching your video a while back as I know outdoor sockets can build up moisture in the back but also read in the instructions that drilling the drain hole can decrease the IP rating of the outdoor socket. Awesome video again Chris learnt a lot from you.
Nice honest video
Looool at the gas line part.
James is so useful! 😂😂😂😂😂
I’m not a fan of running cables in a cavity but as it will be deeper than 50mm I think RCD protection isn’t required, ideally imo an SWA would be better. To put it on an RCD you will end up with selectivity issues.
They'd use time delayed one.
@@Prince-ep8pv a time delayed one won’t provide additional protection so is a bit pointless IMO.
As you dont know how cables are run we cant comment. If in cavity they would need mechanical protection but i would never put on a RCD as no discrimination.
100Amp 100ma TD s type mate 😎
@@adamstevens9196 you need ‘additional protection’ if cables are in the wall, you will only achieve this with a 30mA.
I always use a Lewden sub main with an 80A fuse and 25mm 3 core armoured if the C/U is further than 3 meters. Horrible bloody job.
Daft when you can use 16mm up to a certain distance .
Don't think you can get away with putting an upstream RCD on as it would be a single point of tripping for the whole house, safety hazard. With it been the main tails only protected by the fuse, it would need to have some sort of earthed capping (>=3mm I think) or routed in a better way deeper then 50mm. If within the cavity of the leaf then also install mechanical protection such as armoured Kopex
Would be interested in how long that timer socket will last. I’ve had three BG ones fail within a day! Ended up taking the timer out of a greenbook one and used the BG enclosure/socket!
The amount of copper showing on the line feed in to the RCD was crazy...
Seems to be an issue with the Hager Dual RCD boards and the way they crimp the cables - they can be adjusted a bit, but come like that based on the one I installed not long ago.
Kin adverts😂
Great video Chris, put something on your feet man!
Yes I have come across it before and spoke to NIC and they said that if they are enclosed in metallic trunking or conduit they are ok. But we all know that is not the case and there are large electrical contracting firms doing this,
Tails would be classed as a distribution circuit You also don’t want 1 main RCD in the outside meter box taken out the whole installation
You'd use a 100 mA RCD outside for primary protection of the tails and to prevent spurious tripping.
@@Karreth you need Additional protection on any cable running within the wall, you will only achieve this with a 30mA. 100 mA is fault protection against fire etc. Check on site guide
That’s a good days work,
I sometimes pending on circumstances, disconnect the neutral and line conductors of the circuit on the RCD dual split load so to minimize the risk of causing the RCD to trip the bank of circuits
Theres nothing wrong with a copper gas pipe running in a building, the gas engineer even went the whole hog and marked it up to warn the next tradesman as he should. So long as the cables are the appropiate distance from the gas pipe theres no problem with the gas pipe.
What is the minimun height a socket has to be from the ground on the exterior of the building? The external socket is right next to what looks like a hot water blow off pipe, with drilling out the drains in the socket will its new Ip rating be up to the blow off pipe releasing 85 degree C plus temperture water at 3 bar + pressure? Did you report and discuss the faults you found with the customer?
Thanks for sharing, its been a interesting video.
Tails can run in the cavity up to 500mm I think before de rating. Possibly metal capped internally. That’s how we used to do it as developers didn’t want to fit a secondary meter box to house a switch fuse and dno don’t like them in their meter boxes
Hi Criss nice work...do you fire proof your dryline boxes
Our new build was the same. 8m of tails with no KMF fuse/switch.
Electricians weren't interested until I took the case to the NICEIC who made them come back and fit a KMF and open up the walls to check the tails. Surprisingly they were in a steel case going through the building and was earthed, quite a surprise that they would do that over some swa but there you go!
The excuse the electrician's gave the NIC was that the design had changed which saw the meter box moved from the front to the side of the house so the run was much longer and the guy doing the install didn't have one on the van...
Builder rhymes with Wailor Timpey, electricians were Cl@rks0n Ev@n5
interesting. were the NHBC involved in any way or did you just go straight to the NICEIC? who reinstated your walls afterwards? them or did they reimburse you for your own contractor?
@@peter-gn8ey was just the NIC, the NHBC weren't interested. Once the walls were damaged I made the builder return to make good
Lol , what’s wrong with a bit of good old insulation tape over front of MCB .
😂😂😂😂
I see the joke of this but everything is wrong with abit of tape on the mcb that is a accident waiting to happen
If any of your followers are in Cornwall (Falmouth area) we are looking for a junior electrical technician. Someone mid apprenticeship that needs a new placement would be ideal.
Steel tail protection will more than likely have been used where the tails go down the wall
I might have misunderstood the configuration in this video but I recall seeing a newer rule specifying that where a stud wall is being fitted with outlets on both sides within the same area that there must be a fire seal installed to prevent fire from being able to spread from one side of the wall to the other.
Nice job...but I'd have put a switched spur on the feed to the outside socket
Crikey, fiddly lock-offs ... are they worth it? Either (a) isolate at the DNO isolator switch (if present) or (b) pull the main incommer cut-out in the service head?
David Wilson Great Western park? Was the initials of the original electrical firm MP? What's the issue with running 2.5 through the wall to the external socket without the pipe? Is it just protection from the cable?
Hi Chris the NAPIT onsite guide pages 129 through to 132 covers the aspect of meter tails. It doesn't appear to be such a simple answer, as the Regs seem to contradict itself, then add in Building Regs and the DNO requirements for meter cabinets adds to the complexity.
I asked our napit inspector how he would deal with this situation, he recommended 100 MA RCD and obviously must trip out at under 40 Ms at 150 MA.
Hi question for you What test kit do you use and can it fill out certs as you do the testing?
RCD protection would be best practice....but its fused anyway. Question is that does it function as a separate board? But it does come off the consumer unit.
The protection on the fuse said 100A, is that the carrier rating or the actual fuse rating?
3:55 You need to get James a short handle screwdriver for this...
Not sure what their called in the UK, but I've always called them a Stubby Screwdriver...
yep, called a stubby here too. I made my own as stubbies tend to be made with huge handles
May be the house was built pre smart meter days,no need to put the meter outside,surely with smart meters the supply could go straight inside to a cupboard on the ground floor or downstairs hall or toilet that would stop the tail run in the cavity,nice to see you earth the back box like the old school way whatever the argument is 👍
The house is less than 1 years old.
@@Cjrelectrical then may be better planning from the architects 👍
I like to maintain the ring, so I would have used a maintenance free joint box in the stud wall on one leg of the ring, resulting in both the existing and new socket only having 2 cables in. And for the outside socket I would have replaced the 2 gang KO and cut in a 2 + 1 gang barrier KO box with a switched fuse spur on the ring, then the outside socket is not only isolatable but also a little further away from that cage and more accessible from the drive. No criticism, just how we've all picked up and developed our own preferences over the years.
Great video again Chris keep it up please! 😂 Genuinely i learnt more from the first few of your videos that i seen than i did in the 6 months as an 'apprentice' with an electrician i was working with. Needless to say i picked up on some of his bad habits (twisting CPC's, not fly leading back boxes ect... the list goes on believe me) from watching you and called it a day with him since i wouldn't know if what he was teaching me was a bad habit or not. Now im hoping to go to part time college and get qualified off my own back. Needless to say he was s**t anyway and had me doing his work while he was isolating at home and paying me apprentice wage when he couldn't be bothered to even fill the paper work out on time so i could get enrolled on an apprenticeship while i had the chance to 😂
Where do you get your work matts?
I’ve learnt a lot from all the yt ads in this 😂
I had a fascinating advert about the shampoo to use if one wanted to change one’s gender.
I saw this was a David Wilson site where was it
I see meter tails like this all the time, I don’t see the issue
See it on virtually every EICR I carry out and on every new build we do
Are those Hagers any good?
In this vid James gets given some useless lockoffs... the uk standards keep the manufacturers on their toes 😂 keep up the good work boys.
Dip = dual inline package. They ain't no dip switches ;)
6:56 Wow wood studs and sheet rock. Welcome to the USA! 😁😁 They still install rings even in new builds? I would have thought that they would have switched to radials only?
Why would you think that?
as it a pme system and the circuit is over 40 amps it dosnt require rcd protection as long as the 16mm tail dont are not less than 50mm deep in either walls or ceiling
Wht rod set up is that, with the 'sock' etc? Cheers
Where do you get your socks from
If that isn't a Bloor Home build with a Clarkson Evans electrical install I would be amazed. I've always wondered what was behind our Hager board. I guess each installation is different. I just hope the same bloke who did this doesn't work in the South West as well!!
Didn't you see the door mat? DW Homes...
@@farmersteve129 well spotted
I wouldn’t let clarkson evans wire a plug😂
I’m in a barratt and have challenged them a few times about regs and most shrug and say I’ve been told to do that🙄
Yes I’m a southwest sparky picking up issues too
So many failures in just the execution of fitting things on new builds scares me of how these guys ever got their qualifications?
Yesterday I found 9 screws holding a water filled 🙄 adaptable box to a wall but not one wall plug and yes not sealed either 🙄
Keep up the work chris😊
Ha i thought it was a Taylor Wimpey being Deta Slimline and Hager, but i didnt reconise the landing layout. Saying which we fit Hager Deta in our bloors homes and DW homes too.
Putting 30ma rcd protection on main tails goes against the regs as well so either way would be against the regs . If it has to go in the fabric of the building less than 50mm deep you need to use SWA or some sort of protection against penetration.
100ma time delay would suffice the 50v touch
@@Cjrelectrical wouldn’t meet additional protection requirements
@Cjrelectrical maybe so but it would still not be hood enough for the regs. If its not more than 50mm deep it requires additional protection by RCD doesnt it? Additional protection requires 30mA RCD. 100mA may comply with fault protection requirement but not with additional protection.
It's a toque :D
Lock off was right the first time screw in the bottom 👌🏼
Nope goes on top mate
@@Cjrelectrical Chris, my apologies! You made me go and check 😂 I was certain too. But your right, I must have been locking them ON all this time 😝😂
You use RCD's (we call them GFCI's for ground fault circuit interrupters) on a main? In the US we only put them in wet locations or where there is bare concrete. But we also don't have 220v to ground!
RCDs are the Standard in Europe now.
They become pricey when you do a new install in a 3 phase country like Germany, Austria, France etc...
We usually divide buildings into multiple RCDs and split the loads across them so you still have a halfway functional house if one side keeps tripping because of some weird ground leakage somewhere.
Bendy rods..... Haha back in the day it was a bit of yt1 or yt2 lid.....
I tend to use thin, bendy bits of timber. Last time I did a lot of fishing in a ceiling I had two long bits of the tongue broken off of some old floor boards.
Metal coat hangers and tape
I fished through some high level trunk just reached in to pull cable out and got an almighty belt made my day!
@@raychambers3646 Ugh, worst possible scenario!
@@RoderickSpoke The metal coat hanger is a rare beast these days, I remember when every other car had one for an aerial .
34.8ms is greater than 32.4 ;)
Glad it wasnt just me
And me lol
A lot of new build electricians twist the earths. Time is money and suppose they save a bit of money on the earth sleeping too! All done on a price that work. Actually looked like quite a neat place install but I wonder if there is a single clip insight in the loft, doubt it!
Surely twisting the earths together along their whole length at every single socket wastes much more time, that just individual sleeving and bending the end?
That socket you took off is a new socket so why wasn't the cpcs connected to the two separate cpc connections so if you lose one of the cpcs then you still have continuity throughout the circuit
A technical question for you. When installing a new metal back box for say a double socket, do current regs insist that a separate earth connection is installed between the earth lug bonded into the metal box and one of the earth connections on the rear of the socket which is used to secure the incoming earth connections?
Not required as long as one of the lugs on the backbox is fixed
@@conorlanders8401 agreed, but still good practice and protects in the event of facia being pulled forward for decorating and the line conductor pops out to potentially liven up the now unearthed back box.
@@MikeSmith-tx2lp definitely good practice, as you say it provides a path back if the socket is taken off the backbox whilst still live.
Not a spark, but love watching these vids and other youtube sparks as well...
Genuine question as to me it seems "irrelevant": whats wrong with twisting the earth's together behind the sockets? Logic would say it doesn't harm anything by doing so and they are at least sleeved!
Just my electronics brain thinking that from an electrical point of view it doesn't actively create a risk/hazard (if anything it reduces the resistance between the joining of the two earths)?
I feel I'm missing something (regs wise most likely!)
When we need to do testing the wires need to be separated. So this of course means untwisting them. Now I'm sure you know what happens when you get a bit of copper and repeatedly bend it back a forth (it weakens then breaks), so what do you think all that twisting and untwisting may end up doing?
@@Mattja1 ahh that makes sense! Totally didn't think of that :) learning things is awesome :P recently watched John Ward's video on the issues with EV chargers and TN-C-S PEN issues and it was awesome!
I went to a new build a few months ago where the hadn’t even put in a switch fuse for the 6m tail run
I’m amazed that house has a sw fuse.
My new build has an RCD just after the meter. What does the L2 on the fuse mean? In my house it says L1. Is it which of the 3 phases I have?
Get that often with new builds, they get away with no RCD protection due to coming under "distribution". It's a rather shoddy loophole honestly and even if you were to put an RCD in you'd be looking at a rating so much higher it's not likely to trip outside of a dead short anyway. Most of the time won't even see a switch fuse though so credit for doing something I guess.
My property exactly like this with dodgy 16mm twin and earth from a fused switch in the meter box for about 4m to CU. Only basic insulation as the sheath has been cut right back and tails just flapping about. Main earth smaller than bonding from gas and water.IP rating on top of switch disregarded as you can get your finger in there. New build from 2006. House bashers on a price. 'Registered' electricians-my arse. I'll change it myself and sleep at night.
just curious why you opted for 25mm conduit through the exterior wall? would 20mm not have done it?
Hi Peter it was 20mm
That is how most new builds get done these days it would be interesting to see if they have been clipped to centre of joist all the way ref switchfuse you can get a cover for that make of switch but your being picky and the sparkies on site don’t have time to film themselves ( remember you not making off swa correctly ?) let’s stick to showing the job being done 👍
An upstream RCD wouldn't get those tails out of the water as unprotected wiring needs 30mA and back there you'd need an delay 100mA minimum.
May be okay if they've buried them >50mm - but bad practice.
SWA all the way, amazing on newbuild that they don't spec an SWA.
More worried about that gas pipe ran in a void - pipes in voids need ventilation and I can't see any grilles.
Great video. This is first time I heard tails run over 3m have need protecting by rcd?
have not time watch the video yet, but thats news to me 3m tails must have means of local isolation, sure you got that correct. i would like the Reg No. from someone in chat or @cjrelectrical
@@ecoterrorist1402 It's not the length of the tails he's referring to but where the tails go.
The tails are in the fabric of the building - outside of the acceptable zones. What happens when someone decides to drill a hole & catches one of the tails with the drill bit?
Tails buried in the wall the only protection is the 100amp fuse. You could put a nail straight through the line conductor and not know you’d done it until you touch the consumer unit and the lovely picture you’ve just hung on the nail.
Hence the earth armouring on the cables or at minimum an unearthed metal plate of 3mm thickness or greater.
@@Cjrelectrical if the electricians are the well known company it will be protected by a steel plate for mechanical protection
You were lucky, now itchy insulation is the floor pan! ?
So when are your trained you a gerbil to run to the voids to bring you fish line LOL
If it's in the wall greater than 50mm then that is ok with the regs, you couldn't have an RCD in the box outside, because then the whole installation would be on an RCD, although it's only slightly worse than a twin RCD board.
I'd have thought 100mA time delay would be fine to use there? Don't take my word on it though I've not yet had need to consider it.
@@Mattja1 it does say 30ma for cables with non metallic earthed sheath or 50mm in the wall
@@acelectricalsecurity that's interesting, might pull the book out and have a look, wouldn't have thought 30mA would be appropriate covering the whole installation especially now that we're getting more devices we expect to get a bit of leakage from.
@@Mattja1 it's not aimed at tails really, they just fall into the category, being pvc.
I think the original intention was to make us put RCD protection on all outgoing circuits, because making sure all non metallic sheathed cables were 50mm below the the plaster would be a pain to do and prove.
Being as the main fuse is 100amp and not 80amp I’d say the tails were installed before (nearly) all cables had to be rcd protected
seen tails in cavities quite a few times on new builds. Too easy to run them in cavity when houses are being knocked up :( The outside meter boxes cause the problem, their a pain in the ass. Its the same old issue though where you can't get a 30ma time delayed rcd?. Better planning of the building by the architects needs to be done.
30ma time delay rcd wouldn’t meet additional protection of 40ms at x5 anyway
Just to clarify, all work done was minor electrical work?
Instead of actually putting the padlock on the breaker - I find it’s better to just take a quick picture of the board and then photoshop in the interlock padlocks etc at a later date. Takes half the time and gets the job done quicker. Just don’t tell the boss/government.
Don't know why you bother offering FREE entertainment. All these negative comments! Keep up the good work Chris amd James
When I've worked on utilities. If the viewer is outside and we have to get the supply inside the building. We go out the cut out, tails to fused CU then out in swa. To an adaptable box where the board is.