I'm also a massive matchlock fan and I'm one of the rare guys who used to play matchlock armies in the old meta many years ago. Yari wall too early will make your Yari Ashigaru fatigued. Holding the formation spends energy. Ideally, you'd like to click on Yari wall with just enough time to get them in formation as the lines clash You're using Naginatas suboptimally. Of course, no unit can beat the defensive melee capabilities of Yari Ashigaru in yari wall, but Nagis are the ultimate overall tank. They have higher morale and are resistant to morale shocks so you can put them solo in the middle of the enemy army and get them flanked multiple times without having to worry that they'll break too early. They also have the highest armor in the game. They can soak up the most arrows. Yari Ashigaru barely have any armor and they'll be shredded by enemy bows. What you'd like to use Naginatas for is in a front or a flank or whatever that you expect will be swarmed by both melee and ranged enemies. They're just that: release and forget tanks. If you wanna forget about a flank as you focus on another, you'd wanna throw a naginata or two in that side. But of course, your naginatas won't shine. You never tried to add bows into the AI army and bows are really the only hard counter against yari ashigaru. You also didn't vet up the enemy AI units because I've been looking at it and I don't see veterancy flags on the AI units. I also agree that the formation is quite passive. I do like to use matchlocks offensive too. I can use them swedish-style. I have them follow a charge as a 2nd line infantry man but I'll stop the charge right before the lines clash but then I let the gunners move forward a bit until they're able to release one clean volley and then I pull them back just as I engage. I then either have them fire through gaps I've set up in my own line or have them find an open flank after I've beaten or pinned down the enemy cav. This won't work if you're charging based on a developed opportunity (ex: a gap suddenly showed up and you needed yo be quick, there's a moment when the enemy flank is open, etc.). I've used this to great effect in my campaigns when I've already maxed out the 40 unit limit for my army and the AIS but they brought twice or thrice as many stacks as I did. I'll play really aggressively and smash the enemy army piece by piece without giving them time to regroup with their reinforcements.
Good points but I'm aiming to keep these "lab" videos more focused in scope. Showing how to counter bows is a whole art on its own because of the buffs AI archers get on higher difficulties and would somewhat derail the video. On Naginata Samurai: you also need to think of the logistics, campaign-wise. They'll last longer due to morale but on the flip side they're slower to replenish, and require infrastructure to recruit/replace. On a combat basis they are much better at tanking blows than Ashigaru; but in my opinion they aren't better enough to justify the doubled cost. Their armor really isn't much benefit on higher difficulties against AI archers' bonuses; a single fire arrow volley from Bow Ashigaru will take out 20 men, and the AI brings a LOT of bows to battle. Bringing enough Naginata's to deal with that is too expensive and weakens your army in other areas. The best ways to counter bows are tree-cover + loose formation, and dodging them, and Naginata Samurai have awful mobility. Cavalry are more effective at baiting out the fire arrow volleys and evading them. I will be making another video on why Naginata Samurai are a failed concept in-game; Shogun 2 is about being decisive, which Naginata Samurai aren't, and they aren't good enough at their niche (tanking arrows) to be worth their cost. They are basically a crutch all-rounder unit for players who don't wish to micro the more specialized unit types. There are other ways to deal with bows. I'm ok with losing a Yari Ashigaru to bow fire, they are disposable and easily replaceable. Samurai are not. Also fatigue barely matters for infantry. All it does is give a slight morale debuff, and the fatigue drain from Yari Wall is very slow anyway. By the time you have guns it will matter even less thanks to experience and upgrades.
I have used pike and shot sometimes only because some clans know, which I’ll be honest that’s the most bs I ever saw from an ai. But they are pretty good even late game or after you become shogun you can spam them and be like the Napoleonic wars or revolutionary war or the seige of Vienna.
Wow I'm so glad I stumbled across this channel, great guide to matchlocks. Although, isn't it a little bit unrepresentative of most engagements? The enemy would typically have skirmishing forces. It would be cool to see how these formations would need to act flexibly to respond to such a threat.
I have a video scheduled for tomorrow with this exact formation in a real battle on legendary. Recommend subbing if you haven't! I'm really happy to help my dude!
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498Guns were used at extreme range of 300m by aiming the gun at 45 degrees up. The Japanese did do this when fighting Korean archers. They should have the same range as archers.
@@HenriqueRJchiki I know that but people often argue about historical realism, they seem especially angry that in newer total war games guns can arch their volleys rather than shooting straight.
2 bow worrier monks can kite the archers much in much better way And Yea if you had some light cavelry hiding in the forests they can even finish the battle faster by charging in the back I think it would be great if you make a play through with ashkaga shognate - by using minor clans mod and using faster machlock mod - so you got hight xp yarı ashigaru with hight xp ashigaru machlock after 18 turns from the kyoto. But Yea it will trigger relm divide in turn 4 so it would be a bit difficult in the biginning but it would be fun Or you can take kyotu by using hattori without using minor clans mods and being ashkaga shognate. Or just play as otomo and use pike and shots 🙃
You can advance on them in this formation as a locked group, or bring your own archers, or break up the army into modules, taking advantage of terrain such as the high ground or trees.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Cool. I'll also have to experiment with stacking two long yari units in open order, so you get a dense Swiss pike-like formation that can move quickly (I hope) & be used offensively.
I noticed that you are not using Kneel fire and that causes the 2nd rank of your matchlock samurai to not fire, wasting killing power Unless I am wrong or you just like free fire more?
Ranked fire is finnicky, takes forever to fire, and doesn't respond well to taking casualties. It's micro-intensive, and free fire allows you to focus on other parts of battle. If you have fire by rank on, cavalry can charge you head on before you get a single shot off.
What does having guard mode on the matchlocks have to do with their ability to fire or not? Doesn't it just mean they won't chase? I've been finding your videos super useful though, thanks!
I'm also a massive matchlock fan and I'm one of the rare guys who used to play matchlock armies in the old meta many years ago.
Yari wall too early will make your Yari Ashigaru fatigued. Holding the formation spends energy. Ideally, you'd like to click on Yari wall with just enough time to get them in formation as the lines clash
You're using Naginatas suboptimally. Of course, no unit can beat the defensive melee capabilities of Yari Ashigaru in yari wall, but Nagis are the ultimate overall tank. They have higher morale and are resistant to morale shocks so you can put them solo in the middle of the enemy army and get them flanked multiple times without having to worry that they'll break too early. They also have the highest armor in the game. They can soak up the most arrows. Yari Ashigaru barely have any armor and they'll be shredded by enemy bows. What you'd like to use Naginatas for is in a front or a flank or whatever that you expect will be swarmed by both melee and ranged enemies. They're just that: release and forget tanks. If you wanna forget about a flank as you focus on another, you'd wanna throw a naginata or two in that side. But of course, your naginatas won't shine. You never tried to add bows into the AI army and bows are really the only hard counter against yari ashigaru.
You also didn't vet up the enemy AI units because I've been looking at it and I don't see veterancy flags on the AI units.
I also agree that the formation is quite passive. I do like to use matchlocks offensive too. I can use them swedish-style. I have them follow a charge as a 2nd line infantry man but I'll stop the charge right before the lines clash but then I let the gunners move forward a bit until they're able to release one clean volley and then I pull them back just as I engage. I then either have them fire through gaps I've set up in my own line or have them find an open flank after I've beaten or pinned down the enemy cav. This won't work if you're charging based on a developed opportunity (ex: a gap suddenly showed up and you needed yo be quick, there's a moment when the enemy flank is open, etc.). I've used this to great effect in my campaigns when I've already maxed out the 40 unit limit for my army and the AIS but they brought twice or thrice as many stacks as I did. I'll play really aggressively and smash the enemy army piece by piece without giving them time to regroup with their reinforcements.
Good points but I'm aiming to keep these "lab" videos more focused in scope. Showing how to counter bows is a whole art on its own because of the buffs AI archers get on higher difficulties and would somewhat derail the video.
On Naginata Samurai: you also need to think of the logistics, campaign-wise. They'll last longer due to morale but on the flip side they're slower to replenish, and require infrastructure to recruit/replace. On a combat basis they are much better at tanking blows than Ashigaru; but in my opinion they aren't better enough to justify the doubled cost. Their armor really isn't much benefit on higher difficulties against AI archers' bonuses; a single fire arrow volley from Bow Ashigaru will take out 20 men, and the AI brings a LOT of bows to battle. Bringing enough Naginata's to deal with that is too expensive and weakens your army in other areas. The best ways to counter bows are tree-cover + loose formation, and dodging them, and Naginata Samurai have awful mobility. Cavalry are more effective at baiting out the fire arrow volleys and evading them.
I will be making another video on why Naginata Samurai are a failed concept in-game; Shogun 2 is about being decisive, which Naginata Samurai aren't, and they aren't good enough at their niche (tanking arrows) to be worth their cost. They are basically a crutch all-rounder unit for players who don't wish to micro the more specialized unit types. There are other ways to deal with bows. I'm ok with losing a Yari Ashigaru to bow fire, they are disposable and easily replaceable. Samurai are not.
Also fatigue barely matters for infantry. All it does is give a slight morale debuff, and the fatigue drain from Yari Wall is very slow anyway. By the time you have guns it will matter even less thanks to experience and upgrades.
Oda long yari ashigaru in yari wall + Merged with with a matchlock unit = moving bamboo wall
Probably gonna make a video on that
Already received the first submission for battles from a discord member, excited to receive more from y'all!
There's lots of weird combinations you can make that's the beauty of Shogun 2.
I have used pike and shot sometimes only because some clans know, which I’ll be honest that’s the most bs I ever saw from an ai. But they are pretty good even late game or after you become shogun you can spam them and be like the Napoleonic wars or revolutionary war or the seige of Vienna.
Wow I'm so glad I stumbled across this channel, great guide to matchlocks.
Although, isn't it a little bit unrepresentative of most engagements? The enemy would typically have skirmishing forces. It would be cool to see how these formations would need to act flexibly to respond to such a threat.
I have a video scheduled for tomorrow with this exact formation in a real battle on legendary. Recommend subbing if you haven't! I'm really happy to help my dude!
Watching this my only thought is "using this formation as the Oda would crush."
Yup, just another reason for them being the overall best faction in both SP and MP.
Long yari beats even katana, there is no contest.
It’s funny how the two time periods CA hasn’t touched (Pike & Shot and Victorian Era) are both kind of covered in the same game.
Stone Age.
I feel like they kinda cucked matchlocks, because the Japanese did shoot arched volleyed with them and matched bows in range.
matchlocks: get hundreds of kills in siege defenses and cause mass routes in field battles
"cucked"
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498Guns were used at extreme range of 300m by aiming the gun at 45 degrees up. The Japanese did do this when fighting Korean archers. They should have the same range as archers.
@@lolasdm6959 You're using historical context for an arcade video game, the units are the way they are for BALANCING reasons, not realism.
@@HenriqueRJchiki I know that but people often argue about historical realism, they seem especially angry that in newer total war games guns can arch their volleys rather than shooting straight.
2 bow worrier monks can kite the archers much in much better way
And Yea if you had some light cavelry hiding in the forests they can even finish the battle faster by charging in the back
I think it would be great if you make a play through with ashkaga shognate - by using minor clans mod and using faster machlock mod - so you got hight xp yarı ashigaru with hight xp ashigaru machlock after 18 turns from the kyoto. But Yea it will trigger relm divide in turn 4 so it would be a bit difficult in the biginning but it would be fun
Or you can take kyotu by using hattori without using minor clans mods and being ashkaga shognate.
Or just play as otomo and use pike and shots 🙃
Only issue is bow monks requiring 2 whole building slots and research; i usually stick to Bow Ashigaru and keep my building slots for other units
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 like bow cave 🙃
@@Abdu_401 lol. i get an archery dojo just to recruit one bow cavalry and demolish it after
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 damn
what if your opponent melt you with archer spam?
You can advance on them in this formation as a locked group, or bring your own archers, or break up the army into modules, taking advantage of terrain such as the high ground or trees.
Send cavalry
@@SGProductions87 They always keep spears near their archers in legendary difficulty at least from my experience, impossible to charge them outright.
Can you mix matchlock and spear units in open formation, so matchlocks can continue firing from inside a spear unit?
Indeed you can. This is especially devastating with Long Yari.
@@dishonorable_daimyo1498 Cool. I'll also have to experiment with stacking two long yari units in open order, so you get a dense Swiss pike-like formation that can move quickly (I hope) & be used offensively.
I noticed that you are not using Kneel fire and that causes the 2nd rank of your matchlock samurai to not fire, wasting killing power
Unless I am wrong or you just like free fire more?
Ranked fire is finnicky, takes forever to fire, and doesn't respond well to taking casualties. It's micro-intensive, and free fire allows you to focus on other parts of battle. If you have fire by rank on, cavalry can charge you head on before you get a single shot off.
What does having guard mode on the matchlocks have to do with their ability to fire or not? Doesn't it just mean they won't chase? I've been finding your videos super useful though, thanks!
Guard mode means they will keep firing even if they are contacted in a melee. This is absolutely necessary if you plan to station matchlocks on walls.