1st off thank you for your honest perspective as a shop owner and not being scared of speaking the truth, many will dislike what you say, but I, for one, respect you 💯 for saying it how it is. You are extremely correct with the artificial pricing of comics and grading companies creating it. It's a great video, thanks again
Sorry but pricing of graded stuff on the market is decided entirely by the market not the grading companies. They use it to sell their services but all the BS surrounding third party grading is all on collectors. Even collectors that should know better feed the beast. It's mostly about money and recognition and not about the content of the books.
That's the best and most accurate quote I've ever heard. "When there's money to be made there's gonna be fuckery about " someone should encapsulate this quote
First time watching you sir. Ive been collecting off and on 50 years. Recently had a comic graded for first time. Dont believe i will be doing it again
I'm an OG myself and my comic jones led to to buy multiples of just about every book I have. I remember buying off the spinning comic rack at the Myrtle and Broadway stop of the J elevated train in Brooklyn when I was a kid in the 1960's. My childhood letter to the editor can be found in ASM #50, left page, bottom left. Stan called me Joey! While CGC started around 2000, I had not slabbed any of my books until last year. I wanted to protect and preserve some of my best books and that's what I did. I have only 44 slabbed books and they all have duplicates, triplicates, etc. For me it was never about money. Today, there is a spec market that has been insane since the boom during the pandemic. Now prices are being corrected as the market finds it's level and spec sellers are taking a bath much to my amusement. When I look at the plethora of new books that are nothing more than cover art by relatively unknow artists, I wonder how they became worth anything to begin with as there is no rarity to them. Back in the day Mothers across America would throw out dog eared comics. I also wondered if anyone was still actually reading these books. Still, the hobby continues and that is a good thing. The missing thing for me with new books is the aroma (the smell!) that Silver age books take on due to the materials used and the age that is upon them. I say, to each their own as long as the hobby is robust. Lastly, I say Make Mine Marvel...uh, Silver age, that is. Best to all.
@@ChristopherSmithNYC - i started collecting in 1978 and it was the SMELL of those books that kept me coming back. My first issue was a Hulk 151 still on the rack after some 5 years which i got in 1978 at 20 cents while the others were at 35 cents. It is that smell that brings me back to a past that i dearly miss which is why i have also been reluctant like you to slab my books. I will buy slabbed books but have never submitted any for slabbing Other than a PGX Monster of Frankenstein #2 in 9.8 that i absolutely knew was a 9.8.
100% FACTS. CGC is one of the worst things that entered the hobby. To the point they are trying to decide which book is a first appearance, etc. But these new jack guys today still gonna do what they do. They live and die by CGC
Great thing about grading is it only cost around 30 dollars to have the trust of the market, extra protection and the ability to insure your investments. I do agree that grading books that are worth less than a certain amount . If you do have your books graded you can always buy a reader copy or crack it and regrade in the future. More options are better than less.
ABSOLUTELY outstanding video. I owned a comic store in the 1990's and 2000's. I ran my shop and priced books just about the same way you describe you run yours. I did a tremendous business overall with Very satisfied customers. I can remember when just the IDEA of a grading service was proposed. It was a letter in an Overstreet update back in the 90's indicating how great it would be to have a Grading Service. I still remember this because I thought "This is NOT a good idea". My reputation was based on how accurate my grading and pricing was.... NOT on how some company graded my books. Also I could foresee how once Big Money was involved there would be...like in Any business...corruption and scammers. I REALLY loved the business while I was in it, but now I'm almost glad to be out of it. Best of luck to you, my Friend......
I feel your pain!! And i agree with all U said!! However,if you're looking for a good price,they need to be GRADED!!As much as I hate it, it's a fact!! And the corruption involved,is astronomical!!! To make a long story short, It's almost a must to make money!!in having them graded.🤔
Finally someone said what I've always believed. CGC is a scam, and their prices are ridiculous. Ive been a collertor/reader since 1978 and the whole idea is to have, hold, and be able to read the book not stare at it in a case. Well said.
I bought tons of comics in the 80s, I was addicted to the stories. I sold 98% of my old comics like an idiot when I was young. I can't afford to buy every single issue I want, so now I buy the omnibus of my favorite series or character. I miss the old ads, but I love the old stories. Graded comics are useless to me. Great video!
If not an Omnibus, Marvel's Epic Collection is a great project, too. I wish I had money to get the entire Epic library to complement my old single-issue collection.
Very glad I found your channel. I totally agree with your assessment of CGC and grading. I collect comics, and have for 50 plus years, because I love to read them and appreciate the artwork. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining that my Hulk 181 and my Giant Size X-men 1 are worth a lot of money. I'm glad they are, but to me, they'd be priceless regardless of what they're worth to anyone else because I LOVE them and have owned them for over 50 years and kept them in great condition. Sometimes I wonder what it is some folks are collecting: comics or plastic cases with a comic inside and a number on the top. By all means, to each their own, but for me, comics have their greatest value in the joy I get from them when reading the stories and collecting the runs of characters I love; not hanging on a wall locked away in plastic cases. My hat's off to CGC, however. They created a market for their product and a fervor amongst many collectors to use it and make them (CGC) rich. For me, the true value of comics will always be in the stories and the great characters in them. 'Nuff said.
Aloha sir! First off this is a great video! I get it, if your only in the hobby to make money, chase 9.8 grades, appreciate covers only, and conserve but never read the books then grade it. I myself never liked slabs and never will. I keep all my books raw and for me reading, appreciating the art and story is priceless. Nothing like the pure nostalgia of old school raw books.
The only point that I will agree with you on is the conflict of interest with CGC having an in house pressing and cleaning service, I have never thought that was a good look. I will disagree on everything else. I am old enough to have been collecting before CGC was around and remember the wild wild west that the comic collecting hobby was. There was (and still is) many comic book dealers that like to oversell their books and give you a condition of books based on what they think it is. No matter what having a disinterested third party is always a plus. Are grading companies perfect, no, do they still have room to improve their services and slabs, yes. But the collecting hobby as a whole is better off today that it used to be. However, you are totally on point about all the people that are sending in the most random books without even doing a basic inspection of it to determine if it will even be worth it to send it to get graded. But that's not on CGC that is on us as the consumer to make those determinations.
CGC is not a disinterested 3rd party. They are very interested in continue to propagate the market with their product. The latest Heritage auction with clearly over-graded Silver/Gold keys is a prime example.
I have to disagree... i have been collecting comics over 40 years... selling books CGC graded is not selling... you nesd to see what you are spending your money on... sorry... not for me after 40years collecting... easy money.. slab your comic book in plastic and put values on it but buyers have no idea what's in plastic
100% agree. You are a breath of sanity. Before the scandals, I could see a lot of problems with the grading racket, one alone being human subjectivity between graders. You will find those who still believe in the grade & slab still believe because they’ve invested too deeply and don’t want to see themselves as suckers.and are convincing themselves the scandals are isolated. The best way to sell is in person as with any other object or item I may have, where it can be looked at and touched. In light of the Internet, I can appreciate why someone would see there is a need for some kind of universal grading but the current approach ain’t it and seriously flawed.
I very much prefer display cases that companies like Comic Capsule or Gator Guard make. You can store the book in the 'slab' for display/protection, but you can always open it and read the book. Plus, they're much cheaper.
I'm going to try Comic Capsule for my favourite old books. Slabs are a waste of money, & we can't even see the interior art; which is ridiculous if you think logically about why we are collecting in the 1st place. It's all just become about making money now. &, "investing".
You're so old school and I'm here for it. Everything you said about collecting is what made it fun. Encapsulation suffocates the hobby. I do like grading as a price setter and since it's subjective, it leaves the door open to negotiating. Encapsulation should only be used for the highest of grades of the rarest of comics. Or just to protect your personal favorites that are priceless to yourself.
Yeah hard to trust. I always ask questions at the LCS and the answer changes when I have something he wants. Can’t seem to get straight answers. They’re at a point where it’s all about paying that expensive overhead.
That's one of my reasons for not grading any more, Unless I have a book that will bring me 10,000, + otherwise, I just sell them raw, however grading for that kind of money, cgc change's a ton of money!!! It's just a sham all the money thay can get. No matter the book!! Thay charge what Thay want!!!! 🤗
After watching all this that I completely agree with I subscribed. I agree the whole market is in shambles as far as CGC and CGC flippers. And these “ community “ channels that can’t say CGC enough
Just found your channel and joined you.. When u said a comic should be seen and read you got me..I'd never incase my comics in plastic if you cant feel read smell the comic I think it's a real shame.... I couldnt stop my eyes wandering around your shelves behind you.... 19 comic boxes and still collecting.... English fan joining you here...🙂
@@HavenForHeroes I like the way you dont ignore us...watched 4 of your videos learnt so much mate....I agree so much with your opinion on cgc i love comics luke you the art the passion that goes into them criminal to lock them away... I'd love a shop like yours near me...I'd be in there all day......thanks for noticing me even though ur vid is old... Greetings from England...🙂🤞
I'm a 56 year old collector who's been collecting since I was 7, being in and out of the hobby through out my collecting times. I feel I'm able to comment intelligently on your video. I want to say I respect your opions, however, don't agree with them. I have always will and always collected what I enjoy I have also considered myself an "ambassador" for the comic book community by educating people about comics, the history, slabbing, pressing, cleaning, grading etc. Encouraging them to read, get into the hobby and enjoy it how they want to. Money wasn't ever part of my collection until I've changed my spending habits and wanted to have the hobby pay for it's self, and started to sell (both raw & slabbed). I've also learned to grade, press & clean comics. You say you "don't care" about the slabbed Star Wars, yet you got it graded, and tried to sell it. It didn't sell and you seem abit bitter about that. Seems like you do care. There have been times when I didn't "get the grade" I thought it was, so I looked it over and decided if there was something I missed or if I could improve it by futher pressing it. You critizied the Walking Dead slabbed comics that you got in a collection, you didn't have to buy them, you could have said "no". Why critize the person getting it slabbed especially on a RUclips video? It's what they wanted to do. Maybe they didn't know it was a reprint. They weren't educated, and if they were, ok it's what they wanted to get slabbed. I have no doubt that I have comics in my slabbed collection that people would wonder" WTF and why are those slabbed?" You stated that comics are for reading, holding etc, which I agree, however, there are now trade paperbacks, and Omnibuses. I have lots of trades of my favorite story lines in comic so I don't have keep rereading my single issues. This a bad thing in your opinion? The FMV (Fair Market Value) is taken by companies looking at auctions houses, eBay, mulitple outlets that sell comics, and looking at current trends in the market, and average them all out and that's how it's figured out. You went to talk about grading...you do realize that CGC has come out with a very comprehensive book about what they look for and how they assess grades for comics. You're old enough to know that CGC didn't come up with gradeing, that was done by the folks that wrote The Overstreet Guide. Having a comic graded or knowing how to grade a comic is essential in today's hobby, whether you like it out not. Are there some over priced, yep, so don't buy them. You know being a seller, that the market is down, so putting up a book up for auction is a risk. I'm not surprised the comics "underperformed" because I've had comics auctioned and they underporformed too and I wasn't happy. However, that's the risk I took. So if you go with an auction house that right off states that they will charge 4% of FMV, then you're going with the wrong auction house. I'd never put a book up for auction based on FVM for someone to charge that to me. I'd go with an auction house that charged me after the selling price. Or put it up yourself. The "oil" that you stated wasn't even "oil". It was when CGC started going with a new case and "Newton Rings" were created due to the two types of plastics being used were too tight on eachother. The "rings" never effected the comic and there were no liquid "oil" substance on the comics. Of all the slabbed comics I have, I have never seen or had any with "micro cracking". Also, CGC/CBCS/ECG has never claimed their cases were indistructable, they will break/crack if they're dropped or mishandled. However, I'd personally would rather drop a comic that's slabbed than a raw comic. I'm pretty sure the slabbed comic would sustain less damage. I apologize for making this post so long, however, what I had to say took alot of space. I'm a reader, buyer, seller, slabber, cleaner, presser, and collector in this amazing hobby. I'm always ready and wanting to be a postitive ambassador for this amazing, fun, and growing hobby/community and never have judgements of what or how people collect.
I appreciate your thoughtful criticism. Exactly what we need in the industry. You make a lot of great points. The 4% I was talking about was not from the auction house. It's 4% is what you pay on a book over a thousand two CGC and have a problem with that because they don't know what the value is until the book sells. When they're taking a percentage of the value that they have created there can be a lot of subjectivity that should not be in the grading process. A lot of people have a lot invested in graded books and I know that this would be very controversial, but as a purist that's where I'm at. All the books that are graded including that Star Wars book was sent out by the auction house, not by myself. Sometimes you have to pay a bill. Thanks again for watching. I hope to hear more from you.
Both of you have good points I appreciated that you both expressed your thoughts and feelings on multiple subjects with intelligence and class. This is what makes our hobby great.
And thank you for doing this. I've been collecting since the early 1970's and I can testify that collecting comics has drastically changed and grading has not always been for the betterment of the hobby. I don't dislike slabbing but it has created many things that I don't like. But we adapt with the times. One thing I can say is that slabbing is not the main focus of my collecting but buying and collecting raw comics and always reading them has been a rewarding experience for me. Graded comics are cool, especially preserving my older books but appreciating the wonderful stories and beautiful sequential art is the most rewarding.
Absolute wisdom - comics are for reading and enjoying. The art and the stories are the beating heart of the actual reading community! Speculation is for money markets.
Good video! You bring up a lot of very good points. I got back into collecting last July and I liked getting graded copies of books I had as a teenager but I’ve really gone back towards raw copies recently. So much more fun to actually be able to read and smell them.
I really think you should only get gradebooks when you're getting rid of them if they're big enough to go to auction and then choose your grading company that has integrity and not just cuz it's the hottest thing on the shelf
what a voice of sanity, thank you. i've never seen the channel or heard of the shop, but your genuine care for the hobby and fans (/customers) made me just google your shop, I'm down in NYC and going to find time for a little road trip to come give you some business. good man.
Amen brother... I don't buy slabs for many of the same reasons you stated and I only slab books I intend to sell. It's amazing to me what people will pay for a slabbed book. I recently sold a book that I paid 5.00 for not even a YEAR ago for 315.00 on ebay because it got a 9.8 when I sent it to CGC. That's bonkers to me.
Yep, the only reason to use them is if we're turning and burning. Congrats on a nice sale! Appreciate you being part of the community and welcome aboard
Your quote at 15:27 is the damn truth! Most hobbies lose the fun factor with the introduction of big money processes and speculators looking for a quick and big money grab! Great video!
I gotta say. I really enjoyed this video. I just got into collecting. At first I was very anti slab. But after a Bit I bought a slab for dirt cheap. I know what condition this book is in. It's easy to display and show off. Graded books are more of a Flex piece then anything. I loved what you said about a graded book essentially being "blank" on the interior. You are right on so many levels. But at the same time. That book isn't lost. Comics have been printed so many times, it's so easy to read them physically or digitally. Like it or not comic books are a form of investment. Like stocks, gold, etc. Unlike those things tho. What makes comics so great and fun to collect is the story in them. Black suit spider man covers, First appearances of your favorite character. Death of characters. Beginning of story arcs etc. Comics get their value from the community, and the impact of the stories inside of them. Even tho a book may be graded. It doesn't mean it's lost to time. So many people have multiple copies of the same book. One to read, one to collect. TO sum it up. I think grading is a beautiful thing. It allows us a way to prove how pristine our books are. I don't think you should grade EVERYTHING. Like you said. Paying $25 to grade a modern $4 book is a waste of everyones time, and the worlds resources. Graded books should be reserved for those truly special. Not random $1 bin stuff. It has it's good and bad. I do think CGC is a shit company tho. I hate that they have the monopoly on the market. I live in texas and like CBCS alot. But people don't respect it. Thanks for the video!
Comics are for reading first. Read better comics is my new mantra. Grading is absolutely a money-maker for those who understand and work that process. I had a guy at a con tell me the act of sealing the comic damages the pages (made of paper which is made from wood -older newsprint - which needs air flow to remain fresh and supple). If you're not happy with what mainstream publishers are printing, seek out self-published and "true" indie titles. Great job, Emmet! Thanks for telling the truth about this medium we love. And what's that shirt you're wearing?
I love your "create readers" mentality. It is great to see people still caring for comic books as much as you do. I got a second channel dedicated to animations. My dream is to have my animations inspire viewers to pick up comics and start reading. I hope we both achieve our goals, at least with one person every now and then. Subscribed. 💚
Thanks. I feel like going to a local comic book shop and talking to the owner, like I used to do years ago. It's a very nice vibe. My channel is called The Icecypher Animation. www.youtube.com/@TheIcecypherAnimation Ice for Bobby Drake and Cypher for Doug Ramsey. I think my main audience is people who has read and enjoyed Marvel comics from the 70s and 80s, but I want to reach people who haven't so they may feel like starting.
Great video. Just subscribed. I agree that comic books should not be graded like sports cards or coins because comic books should be opened up and be read.
I totally agree, I buy EC books graded on eBay (just so I know they are complete and unrestored) but I crack them out as soon as I receive them. What’s the point in having the book if I can’t read it, or look at the fantastic art of the panels? I bag them in Mylar with acrylic clear backing boards, they are just as protected as the would be in the cgc case and I get to enjoy them whenever I want.
I agree with your assessment of the graded comics market. I’ve been collecting since the mid 1970’s, mostly silver and bronze age. I have my books bagged, boarded and stored in collector boxes. About a year ago, I decided to do a ‘test’ slab on one of my newer books, Batman 428. I bought the book new when it originally came out in 1988, bagged and boarded it. I sent it in to CGC for grading, I believe that the fee was about $40 total. (that included shipping) I got it back several weeks later, they graded it at 8.5, no explanation as to why it received this grade. I was surprised to get an 8.5 on a book that has been stored since new. About a month later, I decided to sell it and got $36 for it. The bottom line is the most important part of having a book that is not slabbed, is the enjoyment of opening it up and READING it. (…and enjoying the artwork) I pull out my folding table, put down a towel and carefully read the book.
Thank you for sharing your comic experience. This business is not sustainable once all the vintage gold and silver books have been graded. All's left is the modern and the the values of those have been headed south. Welcome to our community
Honestly i could tear your reasoning apart and be 100% right. On the other hand I can defend almost everything you said as well. If you wanna be a collector you have to deal with all bad and good. AS far as signatures go a signed comic with no authentication such as grading is a damaged comic cause unless i saw it signed it isn't real unless there's proof. So i am 100% behind getting comics signed and graded as a way to assure myself and other buyers that its authentic. Other than that i only like graded comics i want to display it makes me personally feel better it being encased in that armor.
Man, I enjoyed this. I have been saying for years that the FMV “sliding scale” price for grading higher end books is a massive scam (and a conflict of interest). Thanks. I just hope more people listen.
Your wisdom and understanding of the true scam of grading companies is so refreshing. Great insight, wish some younger members of the community understood these things. Great video.
This is an important video. I’ve been collecting for over 20 years and any collector know that this is what happens when greed and tech are introduced into the hobby. ❤ thanks for posting and being so passionate
NICE VIDEO BUD....Here is my philosophy on Grading Comics. I have a very large collection and my Kids and Grandkids are not guaranteed to take up my collection. Who knows if they will show any interest in any of my collections. However, you mention "MONEY $$$$" around them and it's like God smacked them in the head and their ears perk right up. I grade my comics and make sure they KNOW not to start a garage/yard sale and sell them for pennies on the dollar. There's no haggling over a comics grade if it's graded. Also like the gentleman in the video said, auction houses will not sell your comics if they are not graded.
Readers not Speculators! Great line. Bravo man! I'm 50 years old and haven't seen a comic in over 30 years. But I have had an itch to find a comic store and go thru their bins like when I was a teen. I like watching these videos because they give me an idea of what is going on in comics today. Keep up good work. Subscribed and liked.
Unfortunately, I believe there’s a lot of favoritism occurring at CGC, there are an underhanded company the way they do a business and recently they were exposed and that’s the first layer of deception. I’m sure there’s multiple layers over there. They need to be unraveled.
Finally someone being honest!! I got some graded books but there only for display I don't buy for value just for display purposes only and only if there dirt cheap and I have atleast one raw copy of each!! But I 100% love and endorse everything you just sed, that shits a scam!!!!
You're right it is art, and the cover is typically the masterpiece of that art and how people recognize the book. I line my office walls with it so even though I don't own a comic shop it sure feels like I'm in one. I like the grading process and its very enjoyable for a great deal of the community. I do like to sneak a peek at the actual frame that a character may make his first appearance, but I know people that have your perspective, but I like that grading exists and I hope it continues to grow.
You should enjoy the hobby the way you like to enjoy the hobby. My opinion is just my opinion. It's whether what the CGC is doing is right or wrong. I bet your office looks awesome! Thanks for being part of that discussion
Yes, why conceal the interior art to never be seen? It's cockamamie. Avaricious bastards ruining the hobby, & brainwashin' collectors. VALUE VALUE VALUE. What happened to collecting for the love of the art & stories. Great philosophical explanation on the inside being blank once encapsulated, beautifully said, I must say. Great video, friend.
Totally agree! So many people look at me like I am insane when I say that I think grading comics is stupid, but lately I am finding a lot more people who agree with me.
@@HavenForHeroes thank you. I found your channel because this video was recommended to me. Now I am going to go back and watch some of your other content.
Most comics are online so you can always read them there. I see the use for grading only to determine the condition of the book that everyone can agree on. I do like the magnetic cases and plan to put some in those. I have said all grading companies should switch to AI grading just so there is no emotional judgement
I've bought a handful of 70's comics in slabs (mainly Kirby, the GL/GA drug issue haha), just because I like the look of them and put them up like art pieces. Just buy what you love and you'll never be upset!
I agree, I have been collecting for 40 years, and i do not own one graded book in my collection.Now i will admit to having got a book graded, I worked for someone who had an account and i used it to grade my Young Avengers #1, Why? Because i bought it at the time to try it out, didnt care for it, never bought another issue, been sitting in my box since, the book had gone way up, and was going for 900-1k on ebay, so the guy i worked for felt it would get a 9.8, 9.6 at worse, Well it came back a 9.8 and i sold it for around 980.00. I do not miss the book, dont care i dont have it anymore and made some money i needed at the time. that same book in that grade i could turn around and buy for 300 or less now. Every point you made about the grading system and the corruption is on point and i have been saying it for years ,going back to when sports cards started it.
This was a terrific, cold hard reality check about the current state of comics. Thoughtful, rational, common sense commentary by a dealer that seems to sincerely care about the field and history. So many good silver and bronze age books essentially taken out of the market place, just to be slabbed. Making collecting harder and more expensive. They are killing the field.
Well. I started collecting comics in the 70's. Back then it was about bunch of weirdos who loved comics, because they were COMICS, not because they were abstract commodities that could be see as a speculative return in investment. I went to the San Diego con when it was held in the El Cortez hotel, and it was mostly about comics. I fell out of the "hobby" (as apparently we like to call it), in the 90's-- disillusioned by the shattering of continuity that the big companies were involved in at the time (mandated, by the way, by an increased need to show continual profits for shareholders once the companies went public). I have recently returned to the comics culture, and have to admit that I am pretty shocked. The speculative aspect of the culture seems to me akin to the most egregious aspects of crypto currency, based on pyramid scheme concepts of "hype and dump," regardless of actually value or personal connection. Most of this seems connected to copper and modern comics of which there are actually THOUSANDS of copies of, in high grade. It reminds me of beenie babies-- a collectible that was ONLY made to be collected (anyone remember pogs?), and therefor inherently valueless. Golden age comics are valuable because they are scarce, not unlike gold itself. If this "hobby" is now only about seeing profits on speculative "key" comics, regardless of what it is, then I think I will demure. I love comics because they are COMICS, a quintessential aspect of pop American culture, their stories and amazing and essential art, their smell of newsprint, their thusness, and not because they could make me rich. The practice of entombing them in a plastic serving tray to only safeguard their profit commodification to me seems like a betrayal of what they actually are. Remember, the term "slab" is also used for dead bodies. Yet, if in this post human economic world that we are making for ourselves decides that the only relevance that comics have to us and our culture is in their monetary exchange, then I will kindly tip my hat and disappear behind the curtain, and enjoy my comics, leafing through their pages, smelling their smells, and being amazed by their existence. But, remember, it's all up to us.
I do agree with you on most points, but , I do like the protection for my big books, I can read a reprint / facsimile at my leisure. That being said, yes the grader and the grading ability is totally subjective and does leave some doubts in my mind plus it has gotten much more expensive than when it started, you are right about the garbage books that have been graded, it’s ruined the initial idea of encapsulating to protect a big book
You 100% right. I believe that grading books should only be to preserve a book. However there are other ways to do that by buying the capsules yourself. I feel that the value of a book has many factors like first appearance, artist, writer, and nostalgia. Keep up the great work
Grading modern books is fine…but the only reason I’d grade a modern book personally is 1. If it has key significance 2. Has the potential for a 9.8 grade….and that’s it. I see no point in spending money to grade a non key of miles morales Spiderman to only receive a 9.2 grade.
I understand grading a card like a Michael Jordan rookie. But don’t understand grading comics like you said now you can’t even read it. You can see the cover that’s it.
I get where he’s coming from he has a good point but it also brought new people some good and some bad into the industry and it’s helped a lot of the good ones be able to survive in the industry. He right 100% we need more readers. Someone who’s actually into comics needs to start one that’s a happy medium
Great insights sir. That being said, I only do graded if it’s a comic I want for my collection. I’ve learned the hard way, speculating on CGC is like playing the ponies - maybe the odds are even worse. You have gained a subscriber🙏🏻
Great points. You have opened my eyes to what in industry has become. Hope to see you again and let me know if you have an web site so I can support your business and my hobby. Thanks.
To all you illustrious, comic book collectors-when I purchase a CGC graded book I always pull out my magnifying glass, yes, we do not know what’s inside unless we read the graded notes usually that’s a safer bet. if it’s marked CGC 9.6 and I feel it’s a 9.4 I request a return etc. etc. etc.
Forgive me, sir, but you must be either a Boomer or Gen X. I respect how you cut through the noise about comic readers-calling out those who chase graded collections for profit, unlike the real fans who actually love the art and stories. I’m with you. The art, the words, the raw creativity-this is what matters. You’re one of the last who sees it for what it really is. Thank you for keeping it real.
Wow, thank you very much! Very humbling to hear that. It's how I truly feel and I try to say it as often as possible so it touches as many people as possible. Welcome to our community. Hopefully there'll be more to come.
I dont disagree, but I still get keys graded or buy graded. Not because I trust CGC, but because I trust that that graded keys will be easier for my family to identify and get fair market prices for when that time comes. The thought of someone getting a raw nm batman 251 or vf giant size xmen 1 in a cheap lot auction after I pass because they were in a short box with raw walking dead reprints makes me nauseous.
been collecting comics since the late 70's, and when CGC came out, i couldnt stand it. thank you for talking about something i have been yelling for years. what gets me is when you see a brand new book thats been slabbed!??!?!?!??!!?!/
Most books should not be graded. Stick with keys, or if you personally want to preserve the book. I knew my Dr. Strange #1 would come back as a low grade, but I did it because it is a piece of my youth.
My point exactly. The only thing is to have a company as big as cgc. You need to grade a lot of books to pay the bills. Especially when your overlords or vanguard and Black Rock!. Thanks for joining the conversation and welcome aboard
Finally a mature and honest take on this scam-and scheme- ''phenomenon'', hyping up and price-inflating the comic world by scheme! Thanks a lot, for this!
Thank you for your honest perspective. I am a comic book collector for more than 30 years and I have zero graded books. Lately I have been thinking about getting some of my key issues graded because I worry about their value decreasing. But I agree with you on all of your points. I like holding my comics. I like re-reading them. Plus there are plenty of new companies making products that help you display and protect them without incasing the comics forever.
It's not like I've never graded a book. I just don't think all of us are educated enough on the inner workings of these companies and they're not very transparent and inhibits trust.
I agree with everything that you’re saying but I have 40 and 50 year-old books I’m not sell them for $20 so they can make 1000 I have paid bills with that book when I need it so I had to grade it to make the money because it will not sell to a better price
When I got into comic books it wasn't about money. It was about collecting the artwork. The cool stories, the cool thing. S somehow everything got crazy and comics became just another piece of money. I never got into comic books because of money. I enjoy comic books reading them the artwork. I appreciate the people that made the comic books they are to street the artwork. How long hours they had to put in to make that comic book and all of the works to put it appreciate art. And this content was very educational.Very smart, very cool and I agree.What you actually said about the whole thing.Appreciate glathers, more guys like you in the business.Thank you for great content
Thank you very much for the very humbling compliment. I'm going to spend a lot of time trying to bring the community back together. Welcome to the community
Interesting Video. I mostly have raw books. I do agree with what you're saying. I do however grade the books I really want to keep in my collection. I do believe it's easier to sell certain graded books then raw books because it's sometimes very difficult to agree on the raw grade. The beauty is in the eyes of the beholder as they say. Raw books can hide Alot of hidden defects. So ther are pros and cons to be made. Yes your trusting a grading company to be honest and fair with you, and people who sell raw books as well. Thanks for sharing this video.
If your selling on line or through an auction house grading does increase your chances of a higher price. Right now CGC is the industry leader but should they be.
As the market grows demand will grow for graded products. It is a more official way to negotiate rather than just eyeballing and willing and dealing, although it is fun to make a deal with an individual those times are coming to an end.
Great episode! 👏 👏 👏 You make an excellent point! 💯 True story... I cracked open my Hulk 181 graded at 8.6 I think (it was 30yrs. ago). I just wanted to read the story and enjoy the art. It was worth it! That was my one and only graded book. No grades books for me. Subscribed 👍🏼
I am really close to you age I, I am with you and agree brother. I have been collecting since the 70's and feel the grading is just wrong. My Silver Age books are precious, the art, the advertising and story cannot be appreciated in a slab!
eBay is as much to blame for slabbing as CGC who have listed every book they have graded. Opinions very but there are millions of ways to collect. The medium is art but you’re not gonna find a Van Gogh owner who is gonna let you touch it. So I don’t want your grimy fingers on my 9.4 Silver Surfer #4! Haters gonna hate. 😊
I always hear the Johnny come lately influencers say "I can't believe this guy wanted a graded price for his raw comic" as if only CGC grading is valid and all Raw copies cannot be better than a Fine unless proven by CGC.
The fact that you can crack the slabs and resubmit them and get very different grades for each submission is pretty damning. The 4% of fair market value is a scam too, there should be a cap to cover insurance. And how they categorize restoration, what is and isn’t is dubious.
I agree you have a handful of people deciding what graded your book is awarded which makes no sense to me. Also these grading companies have way too many grading points. I can’t tell the difference between a 6.5 and a 7.5 which can have a profound affect on the value of the book. Should they also reduce grading fees if you don’t get the desired grade? That would at least be fair to reimburse the fee costs if you did get the grade you thought it was. Thanks for sharing your view on this matter btw. 👍
5:18 - "Outside of comics, these are people that are making money on the collecting of comics. They don't create comics. They don't invest in comics." - Sure, but you could say the same thing about companies that manufacture and sell bags, boards and boxes. And to be fair, CGC (and CBCS) should NOT be investing in comics; that would create a conflict of interest.
Cgc is definitely good for the business when it comes to Golden Age comics and some silver age especially if you're worried about restoration, expensive gold and silver age books and before grading comics you were at the discretion of all sellers of what condition is it considered near mint mint very good very fine and so on so then cgc is healthy for the the comic collecting Community but yeah grading all these new books that are 5 years old and to get a 9.8 is ridiculous but the hate I see that you say about cgc and all grading companies is way overboard as I see many sellers way over grade dare books back in the day I've been collecting for almost 40 years myself and would take advantage of collectors that weren't we're not experts at grading and trusting it's better to have a third party to verify the grade especially if you're ordering through the mail when I saw back in 2000 this service offered I was like this is awesome now I don't have to worry if I want to hear my book and I buy from some seller a raw copy and it's not near mint so yeah there's a place for cgc they're not the gods of comics but they do have a place just like raw copies have a place in the community
Some good points and I've had a lot of pushback. I'm going to make a follow-up video explaining some more of what I'm looking for from a grading company
"To make this business last a very long time, we need to make readers. Not speculators." 100%.
Thanks for watching joining the community. Glad you enjoy the quote.
BS
I agree. Comics are art for reading.
1st off thank you for your honest perspective as a shop owner and not being scared of speaking the truth, many will dislike what you say, but I, for one, respect you 💯 for saying it how it is. You are extremely correct with the artificial pricing of comics and grading companies creating it. It's a great video, thanks again
Thanks Thoro have always respected your channel and all you bring to comics.
The ones who dont like hearing this are the ones who got duped! HA! Comics should never reside in a tomb.
Sorry but pricing of graded stuff on the market is decided entirely by the market not the grading companies. They use it to sell their services but all the BS surrounding third party grading is all on collectors. Even collectors that should know better feed the beast. It's mostly about money and recognition and not about the content of the books.
Agreed
Oh god, the thoro guy 🙄🤣. This guy is such a fucking anti CGC trolling tool.
That's the best and most accurate quote I've ever heard. "When there's money to be made there's gonna be fuckery about " someone should encapsulate this quote
LOL thank you
@@HavenForHeroes autographs-too......stick*rs-is-no-guarant**-its-r*al
Right! I'm gonna write that down!😊
I 100% agree with your take on grading. It is a disease on the hobby... It is more like a scam than anything else.
Thank you so much for watching and being a part of the conversation
First time watching you sir. Ive been collecting off and on 50 years. Recently had a comic graded for first time. Dont believe i will be doing it again
Well thanks for watching. Thanks for commenting being part of the conversation welcome aboard
I'm an OG myself and my comic jones led to to buy multiples of just about every book I have. I remember buying off the spinning comic rack at the Myrtle and Broadway stop of the J elevated train in Brooklyn when I was a kid in the 1960's. My childhood letter to the editor can be found in ASM #50, left page, bottom left. Stan called me Joey!
While CGC started around 2000, I had not slabbed any of my books until last year. I wanted to protect and preserve some of my best books and that's what I did. I have only 44 slabbed books and they all have duplicates, triplicates, etc. For me it was never about money.
Today, there is a spec market that has been insane since the boom during the pandemic. Now prices are being corrected as the market finds it's level and spec sellers are taking a bath much to my amusement. When I look at the plethora of new books that are nothing more than cover art by relatively unknow artists, I wonder how they became worth anything to begin with as there is no rarity to them. Back in the day Mothers across America would throw out dog eared comics. I also wondered if anyone was still actually reading these books. Still, the hobby continues and that is a good thing.
The missing thing for me with new books is the aroma (the smell!) that Silver age books take on due to the materials used and the age that is upon them. I say, to each their own as long as the hobby is robust. Lastly, I say Make Mine Marvel...uh, Silver age, that is. Best to all.
Brother we are cut from the same cloth thank you for watching.
I live close to that stop. Cools story.
stop on by
@@ChristopherSmithNYC - i started collecting in 1978 and it was the SMELL of those books that kept me coming back. My first issue was a Hulk 151 still on the rack after some 5 years which i got in 1978 at 20 cents while the others were at 35 cents. It is that smell that brings me back to a past that i dearly miss which is why i have also been reluctant like you to slab my books. I will buy slabbed books but have never submitted any for slabbing Other than a PGX Monster of Frankenstein #2 in 9.8 that i absolutely knew was a 9.8.
I love Olive Garden hood food you do make point
100% FACTS. CGC is one of the worst things that entered the hobby. To the point they are trying to decide which book is a first appearance, etc. But these new jack guys today still gonna do what they do. They live and die by CGC
Yes Sir. 100%
I view the CGC effectively a racket.
Great thing about grading is it only cost around 30 dollars to have the trust of the market, extra protection and the ability to insure your investments. I do agree that grading books that are worth less than a certain amount . If you do have your books graded you can always buy a reader copy or crack it and regrade in the future. More options are better than less.
Good points
ABSOLUTELY outstanding video. I owned a comic store in the 1990's and 2000's. I ran my shop and priced books just about the same way you describe you run yours. I did a tremendous business overall with Very satisfied customers. I can remember when just the IDEA of a grading service was proposed. It was a letter in an Overstreet update back in the 90's indicating how great it would be to have a Grading Service. I still remember this because I thought "This is NOT a good idea". My reputation was based on how accurate my grading and pricing was.... NOT on how some company graded my books. Also I could foresee how once Big Money was involved there would be...like in Any business...corruption and scammers. I REALLY loved the business while I was in it, but now I'm almost glad to be out of it. Best of luck to you, my Friend......
Thank you sir for taking the time to let us know your story.
I feel your pain!! And i agree with all U said!! However,if you're looking for a good price,they need to be GRADED!!As much as I hate it, it's a fact!! And the corruption involved,is astronomical!!! To make a long story short, It's almost a must to make money!!in having them graded.🤔
Thanks for joining the conversation and your honesty. Welcome aboard.
Finally someone said what I've always believed. CGC is a scam, and their prices are ridiculous. Ive been a collertor/reader since 1978 and the whole idea is to have, hold, and be able to read the book not stare at it in a case. Well said.
Thank you very much for sharing your comic journey. And joining our conversation. Welcome to the community.
you’re a grown man. You don’t need to be reading stories written for children in the 1950s
and how many times do you reread the same children’s stories lol strange
Just read the digital version
That oil in the case that you were talking about sounds more like newton rings
Thank you
I bought tons of comics in the 80s, I was addicted to the stories. I sold 98% of my old comics like an idiot when I was young. I can't afford to buy every single issue I want, so now I buy the omnibus of my favorite series or character. I miss the old ads, but I love the old stories. Graded comics are useless to me. Great video!
Thanks so much for sharing your comic journey being part of the conversation. Welcome to the community. It's growing fast
If not an Omnibus, Marvel's Epic Collection is a great project, too.
I wish I had money to get the entire Epic library to complement my old single-issue collection.
Very glad I found your channel. I totally agree with your assessment of CGC and grading. I collect comics, and have for 50 plus years, because I love to read them and appreciate the artwork. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining that my Hulk 181 and my Giant Size X-men 1 are worth a lot of money. I'm glad they are, but to me, they'd be priceless regardless of what they're worth to anyone else because I LOVE them and have owned them for over 50 years and kept them in great condition. Sometimes I wonder what it is some folks are collecting: comics or plastic cases with a comic inside and a number on the top. By all means, to each their own, but for me, comics have their greatest value in the joy I get from them when reading the stories and collecting the runs of characters I love; not hanging on a wall locked away in plastic cases. My hat's off to CGC, however. They created a market for their product and a fervor amongst many collectors to use it and make them (CGC) rich. For me, the true value of comics will always be in the stories and the great characters in them. 'Nuff said.
Thank you and welcome to the discussion
Need more people speaking the truth like this than the dozens of tedious CGC unboxing videos.
Thank you
Excellent video, subbed.
You are so right that comics are an art form. Sequential art, when done right, is amazing.
Thank you I'm glad there are still purist out there
You may be honest, but I have met many unscrupulous shop owners.
Shop owners and greeting companies. You have to vet them yourself.
Aloha sir! First off this is a great video! I get it, if your only in the hobby to make money, chase 9.8 grades, appreciate covers only, and conserve but never read the books then grade it. I myself never liked slabs and never will. I keep all my books raw and for me reading, appreciating the art and story is priceless. Nothing like the pure nostalgia of old school raw books.
The only point that I will agree with you on is the conflict of interest with CGC having an in house pressing and cleaning service, I have never thought that was a good look. I will disagree on everything else. I am old enough to have been collecting before CGC was around and remember the wild wild west that the comic collecting hobby was. There was (and still is) many comic book dealers that like to oversell their books and give you a condition of books based on what they think it is. No matter what having a disinterested third party is always a plus. Are grading companies perfect, no, do they still have room to improve their services and slabs, yes. But the collecting hobby as a whole is better off today that it used to be. However, you are totally on point about all the people that are sending in the most random books without even doing a basic inspection of it to determine if it will even be worth it to send it to get graded. But that's not on CGC that is on us as the consumer to make those determinations.
Thank you for your honest input.
CGC is not a disinterested 3rd party. They are very interested in continue to propagate the market with their product. The latest Heritage auction with clearly over-graded Silver/Gold keys is a prime example.
I have to disagree... i have been collecting comics over 40 years... selling books CGC graded is not selling... you nesd to see what you are spending your money on... sorry... not for me after 40years collecting... easy money.. slab your comic book in plastic and put values on it but buyers have no idea what's in plastic
100% agree. You are a breath of sanity. Before the scandals, I could see a lot of problems with the grading racket, one alone being human subjectivity between graders. You will find those who still believe in the grade & slab still believe because they’ve invested too deeply and don’t want to see themselves as suckers.and are convincing themselves the scandals are isolated. The best way to sell is in person as with any other object or item I may have, where it can be looked at and touched. In light of the Internet, I can appreciate why someone would see there is a need for some kind of universal grading but the current approach ain’t it and seriously flawed.
Thank you
You've made some excellent points I hadn't fully thought through. Thanks for making the video!
Thanks for watching
I very much prefer display cases that companies like Comic Capsule or Gator Guard make. You can store the book in the 'slab' for display/protection, but you can always open it and read the book. Plus, they're much cheaper.
That's a great option. Thank you
I'm going to try Comic Capsule for my favourite old books. Slabs are a waste of money, & we can't even see the interior art; which is ridiculous if you think logically about why we are collecting in the 1st place. It's all just become about making money now. &, "investing".
@jEDi_BUddhA_YOGi I have two Comic Capsules, and they're fantastic! I don't think you'll be disappointed.
@@dougbotkin8553 thx, friend
@@jEdi_bUddhA_YOGicomic capsules are awesome, you won’t be disappointed!
You're so old school and I'm here for it. Everything you said about collecting is what made it fun. Encapsulation suffocates the hobby. I do like grading as a price setter and since it's subjective, it leaves the door open to negotiating. Encapsulation should only be used for the highest of grades of the rarest of comics. Or just to protect your personal favorites that are priceless to yourself.
Thanks for sharing your opinion and joining the conversation. Welcome aboard!
I also remember the day before cgc when people got scammed by dealers selling restored books. Just ask Nick Cage.
It's important to build trust in a business and it's also very difficult.
Yeah hard to trust. I always ask questions at the LCS and the answer changes when I have something he wants. Can’t seem to get straight answers. They’re at a point where it’s all about paying that expensive overhead.
Cgc solves the trust issue 🤷🏻♂️ that’s what it seems like to me
@@thousandaireradio3199Only they can't be trusted...
@@thousandaireradio3199bingo, no guessing at the condition or the authenticity...pretty sure they provide serial numbers as well...
100% agree. You grade a comic and you are just turning it into an oversized trading card.
I love that analogy.
That's one of my reasons for not grading any more, Unless I have a book that will bring me 10,000, + otherwise, I just sell them raw, however grading for that kind of money, cgc change's a ton of money!!! It's just a sham all the money thay can get. No matter the book!! Thay charge what Thay want!!!! 🤗
Yeah exactly. Thanks for the backup and for watching welcome aboard
Totally agree. Don’t get the comics graded. It’s a scam and we can agree between buyers and sellers a fair price.
Thanks for joining the conversation. Welcome aboard. Plenty more to come
After watching all this that I completely agree with I subscribed. I agree the whole market is in shambles as far as CGC and CGC flippers. And these “ community “ channels that can’t say CGC enough
Thank you very much more to come
Just found your channel and joined you..
When u said a comic should be seen and read you got me..I'd never incase my comics in plastic if you cant feel read smell the comic I think it's a real shame....
I couldnt stop my eyes wandering around your shelves behind you....
19 comic boxes and still collecting....
English fan joining you here...🙂
Thanks for sharing your experiences and joining a conversation. Welcome to our community
@@HavenForHeroes I like the way you dont ignore us...watched 4 of your videos learnt so much mate....I agree so much with your opinion on cgc i love comics luke you the art the passion that goes into them criminal to lock them away...
I'd love a shop like yours near me...I'd be in there all day......thanks for noticing me even though ur vid is old...
Greetings from England...🙂🤞
I'm a 56 year old collector who's been collecting since I was 7, being in and out of the hobby through out my collecting times. I feel I'm able to comment intelligently on your video. I want to say I respect your opions, however, don't agree with them. I have always will and always collected what I enjoy I have also considered myself an "ambassador" for the comic book community by educating people about comics, the history, slabbing, pressing, cleaning, grading etc. Encouraging them to read, get into the hobby and enjoy it how they want to. Money wasn't ever part of my collection until I've changed my spending habits and wanted to have the hobby pay for it's self, and started to sell (both raw & slabbed). I've also learned to grade, press & clean comics.
You say you "don't care" about the slabbed Star Wars, yet you got it graded, and tried to sell it. It didn't sell and you seem abit bitter about that. Seems like you do care. There have been times when I didn't "get the grade" I thought it was, so I looked it over and decided if there was something I missed or if I could improve it by futher pressing it. You critizied the Walking Dead slabbed comics that you got in a collection, you didn't have to buy them, you could have said "no". Why critize the person getting it slabbed especially on a RUclips video? It's what they wanted to do. Maybe they didn't know it was a reprint. They weren't educated, and if they were, ok it's what they wanted to get slabbed. I have no doubt that I have comics in my slabbed collection that people would wonder" WTF and why are those slabbed?"
You stated that comics are for reading, holding etc, which I agree, however, there are now trade paperbacks, and Omnibuses. I have lots of trades of my favorite story lines in comic so I don't have keep rereading my single issues. This a bad thing in your opinion?
The FMV (Fair Market Value) is taken by companies looking at auctions houses, eBay, mulitple outlets that sell comics, and looking at current trends in the market, and average them all out and that's how it's figured out.
You went to talk about grading...you do realize that CGC has come out with a very comprehensive book about what they look for and how they assess grades for comics. You're old enough to know that CGC didn't come up with gradeing, that was done by the folks that wrote The Overstreet Guide. Having a comic graded or knowing how to grade a comic is essential in today's hobby, whether you like it out not. Are there some over priced, yep, so don't buy them.
You know being a seller, that the market is down, so putting up a book up for auction is a risk. I'm not surprised the comics "underperformed" because I've had comics auctioned and they underporformed too and I wasn't happy. However, that's the risk I took. So if you go with an auction house that right off states that they will charge 4% of FMV, then you're going with the wrong auction house. I'd never put a book up for auction based on FVM for someone to charge that to me. I'd go with an auction house that charged me after the selling price. Or put it up yourself.
The "oil" that you stated wasn't even "oil". It was when CGC started going with a new case and "Newton Rings" were created due to the two types of plastics being used were too tight on eachother. The "rings" never effected the comic and there were no liquid "oil" substance on the comics. Of all the slabbed comics I have, I have never seen or had any with "micro cracking". Also, CGC/CBCS/ECG has never claimed their cases were indistructable, they will break/crack if they're dropped or mishandled. However, I'd personally would rather drop a comic that's slabbed than a raw comic. I'm pretty sure the slabbed comic would sustain less damage.
I apologize for making this post so long, however, what I had to say took alot of space. I'm a reader, buyer, seller, slabber, cleaner, presser, and collector in this amazing hobby. I'm always ready and wanting to be a postitive ambassador for this amazing, fun, and growing hobby/community and never have judgements of what or how people collect.
I appreciate your thoughtful criticism. Exactly what we need in the industry. You make a lot of great points. The 4% I was talking about was not from the auction house. It's 4% is what you pay on a book over a thousand two CGC and have a problem with that because they don't know what the value is until the book sells. When they're taking a percentage of the value that they have created there can be a lot of subjectivity that should not be in the grading process.
A lot of people have a lot invested in graded books and I know that this would be very controversial, but as a purist that's where I'm at. All the books that are graded including that Star Wars book was sent out by the auction house, not by myself. Sometimes you have to pay a bill. Thanks again for watching. I hope to hear more from you.
Both of you have good points
I appreciated that you both expressed your thoughts and feelings on multiple subjects with intelligence and class. This is what makes our hobby great.
@@oliverortiz5226 I really wanted to begin the conversation.
And thank you for doing this. I've been collecting since the early 1970's and I can testify that collecting comics has drastically changed and grading has not always been for the betterment of the hobby. I don't dislike slabbing but it has created many things that I don't like. But we adapt with the times. One thing I can say is that slabbing is not the main focus of my collecting but buying and collecting raw comics and always reading them has been a rewarding experience for me. Graded comics are cool, especially preserving my older books but appreciating the wonderful stories and beautiful sequential art is the most rewarding.
I appreciate your insight and becoming part of the conversation
Absolute wisdom - comics are for reading and enjoying. The art and the stories are the beating heart of the actual reading community! Speculation is for money markets.
Good video! You bring up a lot of very good points. I got back into collecting last July and I liked getting graded copies of books I had as a teenager but I’ve really gone back towards raw copies recently. So much more fun to actually be able to read and smell them.
I really think you should only get gradebooks when you're getting rid of them if they're big enough to go to auction and then choose your grading company that has integrity and not just cuz it's the hottest thing on the shelf
what a voice of sanity, thank you. i've never seen the channel or heard of the shop, but your genuine care for the hobby and fans (/customers) made me just google your shop, I'm down in NYC and going to find time for a little road trip to come give you some business. good man.
Thank you It's a very humbling review. We'd love to have you welcome to The community.
Amen brother... I don't buy slabs for many of the same reasons you stated and I only slab books I intend to sell. It's amazing to me what people will pay for a slabbed book. I recently sold a book that I paid 5.00 for not even a YEAR ago for 315.00 on ebay because it got a 9.8 when I sent it to CGC. That's bonkers to me.
Yep, the only reason to use them is if we're turning and burning. Congrats on a nice sale! Appreciate you being part of the community and welcome aboard
Your quote at 15:27 is the damn truth! Most hobbies lose the fun factor with the introduction of big money processes and speculators looking for a quick and big money grab! Great video!
Thank you so much! I'm glad it's resonating with so many people. It looks like we're all finding each other. Welcome to our community
You have my respect. Glad I found your channel. New subscriber now
Thank you
I gotta say. I really enjoyed this video. I just got into collecting. At first I was very anti slab. But after a Bit I bought a slab for dirt cheap. I know what condition this book is in. It's easy to display and show off. Graded books are more of a Flex piece then anything. I loved what you said about a graded book essentially being "blank" on the interior. You are right on so many levels. But at the same time. That book isn't lost. Comics have been printed so many times, it's so easy to read them physically or digitally. Like it or not comic books are a form of investment. Like stocks, gold, etc.
Unlike those things tho. What makes comics so great and fun to collect is the story in them. Black suit spider man covers, First appearances of your favorite character. Death of characters. Beginning of story arcs etc. Comics get their value from the community, and the impact of the stories inside of them. Even tho a book may be graded. It doesn't mean it's lost to time. So many people have multiple copies of the same book. One to read, one to collect.
TO sum it up. I think grading is a beautiful thing. It allows us a way to prove how pristine our books are. I don't think you should grade EVERYTHING. Like you said. Paying $25 to grade a modern $4 book is a waste of everyones time, and the worlds resources. Graded books should be reserved for those truly special. Not random $1 bin stuff. It has it's good and bad. I do think CGC is a shit company tho. I hate that they have the monopoly on the market. I live in texas and like CBCS alot. But people don't respect it.
Thanks for the video!
Thank you for joining the conversation making valid and thought provoking points. Welcome to our community.
Comics are for reading first. Read better comics is my new mantra. Grading is absolutely a money-maker for those who understand and work that process. I had a guy at a con tell me the act of sealing the comic damages the pages (made of paper which is made from wood -older newsprint - which needs air flow to remain fresh and supple). If you're not happy with what mainstream publishers are printing, seek out self-published and "true" indie titles. Great job, Emmet! Thanks for telling the truth about this medium we love. And what's that shirt you're wearing?
It's a horror movie Mr Hush
Not to mention, there are plenty of "Vintage" Indies with phenomenal Art and Stories!!! You can find these usually in the $2 bin......
I love your "create readers" mentality. It is great to see people still caring for comic books as much as you do.
I got a second channel dedicated to animations. My dream is to have my animations inspire viewers to pick up comics and start reading. I hope we both achieve our goals, at least with one person every now and then.
Subscribed. 💚
Thank you so much for trying the conversation. All the kind words. Welcome to the community to drop your channel so you can check it out.
Thanks. I feel like going to a local comic book shop and talking to the owner, like I used to do years ago. It's a very nice vibe.
My channel is called The Icecypher Animation.
www.youtube.com/@TheIcecypherAnimation
Ice for Bobby Drake and Cypher for Doug Ramsey. I think my main audience is people who has read and enjoyed Marvel comics from the 70s and 80s, but I want to reach people who haven't so they may feel like starting.
Great video. Just subscribed. I agree that comic books should not be graded like sports cards or coins because comic books should be opened up and be read.
Thank you, but I think rating is here to stay sadly but people will always be able to get ungraded comics at Haven for Heroes
You have said some things I have thought about since CGC started. You make so much sense.
Thank you for joining the conversation and backing me up. Welcome to our community
I totally agree, I buy EC books graded on eBay (just so I know they are complete and unrestored) but I crack them out as soon as I receive them. What’s the point in having the book if I can’t read it, or look at the fantastic art of the panels? I bag them in Mylar with acrylic clear backing boards, they are just as protected as the would be in the cgc case and I get to enjoy them whenever I want.
Love it.
yah, but you can always buy the cheap reprints to read them.
@@berardoferrari then you don’t get that awesome smell
@@gotgame226 i can get that from cheap 60s marvel or DC books all day long! LOL!
The SMELL
I agree with your assessment of the graded comics market. I’ve been collecting since the mid 1970’s, mostly silver and bronze age. I have my books bagged, boarded and stored in collector boxes. About a year ago, I decided to do a ‘test’ slab on one of my newer books, Batman 428. I bought the book new when it originally came out in 1988, bagged and boarded it. I sent it in to CGC for grading, I believe that the fee was about $40 total. (that included shipping) I got it back several weeks later, they graded it at 8.5, no explanation as to why it received this grade. I was surprised to get an 8.5 on a book that has been stored since new. About a month later, I decided to sell it and got $36 for it. The bottom line is the most important part of having a book that is not slabbed, is the enjoyment of opening it up and READING it. (…and enjoying the artwork) I pull out my folding table, put down a towel and carefully read the book.
Thank you for sharing your comic experience. This business is not sustainable once all the vintage gold and silver books have been graded. All's left is the modern and the the values of those have been headed south. Welcome to our community
This was a great video. Keep doing what you’re doing
Thank you! Will do!
God I love you man! I started collecting in 1968, have over 10K comics and have never, nor will ever slab any of my comics. God bless ya man! 💯
Thanks brother. Welcome to our community we're going to take comics back.
Honestly i could tear your reasoning apart and be 100% right. On the other hand I can defend almost everything you said as well. If you wanna be a collector you have to deal with all bad and good. AS far as signatures go a signed comic with no authentication such as grading is a damaged comic cause unless i saw it signed it isn't real unless there's proof. So i am 100% behind getting comics signed and graded as a way to assure myself and other buyers that its authentic. Other than that i only like graded comics i want to display it makes me personally feel better it being encased in that armor.
Man, I enjoyed this. I have been saying for years that the FMV “sliding scale” price for grading higher end books is a massive scam (and a conflict of interest). Thanks. I just hope more people listen.
Thank you
Your wisdom and understanding of the true scam of grading companies is so refreshing. Great insight, wish some younger members of the community understood these things. Great video.
Thanks for watching!
This is an important video. I’ve been collecting for over 20 years and any collector know that this is what happens when greed and tech are introduced into the hobby. ❤
thanks for posting and being so passionate
Thank you for the humbling review. Welcome to our community
NICE VIDEO BUD....Here is my philosophy on Grading Comics. I have a very large collection and my Kids and Grandkids are not guaranteed to take up my collection. Who knows if they will show any interest in any of my collections. However, you mention "MONEY $$$$" around them and it's like God smacked them in the head and their ears perk right up. I grade my comics and make sure they KNOW not to start a garage/yard sale and sell them for pennies on the dollar. There's no haggling over a comics grade if it's graded. Also like the gentleman in the video said, auction houses will not sell your comics if they are not graded.
Perfectly understandable for a long-term investment. I just hope that CGC can recoup their name and not be the PGX in 20 years. This is what I
Readers not Speculators! Great line. Bravo man! I'm 50 years old and haven't seen a comic in over 30 years. But I have had an itch to find a comic store and go thru their bins like when I was a teen. I like watching these videos because they give me an idea of what is going on in comics today.
Keep up good work.
Subscribed and liked.
Thank you for commenting and joining the conversation. Welcome to our community. You're in for the drawing
Unfortunately, I believe there’s a lot of favoritism occurring at CGC, there are an underhanded company the way they do a business and recently they were exposed and that’s the first layer of deception. I’m sure there’s multiple layers over there. They need to be unraveled.
I 100% agree with you if there are a lot of layers. Thanks for sharing your opinion and joining the conversation. Welcome to the community.
@@HavenForHeroes sam*-thing-with-B*ck*tt.....no-auth*nticity-control-cuz-larg*-cli*nts&lots-faux-autographs-c*rt*d-as-r*al.....its-all-about-$$$
Finally someone being honest!! I got some graded books but there only for display I don't buy for value just for display purposes only and only if there dirt cheap and I have atleast one raw copy of each!! But I 100% love and endorse everything you just sed, that shits a scam!!!!
Thank you so much! For watching. Appreciate all the kind words.
You make great points! I prefer raw books and only have afew slabs.
Same with me brother. Same with me
You won our giveaway please contact us @havenforheroes on instagram so we can get your address to send you the signed King Spawn #1
You're right it is art, and the cover is typically the masterpiece of that art and how people recognize the book. I line my office walls with it so even though I don't own a comic shop it sure feels like I'm in one. I like the grading process and its very enjoyable for a great deal of the community. I do like to sneak a peek at the actual frame that a character may make his first appearance, but I know people that have your perspective, but I like that grading exists and I hope it continues to grow.
You should enjoy the hobby the way you like to enjoy the hobby. My opinion is just my opinion. It's whether what the CGC is doing is right or wrong. I bet your office looks awesome! Thanks for being part of that discussion
Yes, why conceal the interior art to never be seen? It's cockamamie. Avaricious bastards ruining the hobby, & brainwashin' collectors. VALUE VALUE VALUE. What happened to collecting for the love of the art & stories. Great philosophical explanation on the inside being blank once encapsulated, beautifully said, I must say. Great video, friend.
Exactly values. Not why we read these books
Totally agree! So many people look at me like I am insane when I say that I think grading comics is stupid, but lately I am finding a lot more people who agree with me.
The community is starting to wake up. Thank you for joining the conversation. Welcome aboard
@@HavenForHeroes thank you. I found your channel because this video was recommended to me. Now I am going to go back and watch some of your other content.
Most comics are online so you can always read them there. I see the use for grading only to determine the condition of the book that everyone can agree on. I do like the magnetic cases and plan to put some in those. I have said all grading companies should switch to AI grading just so there is no emotional judgement
Some good ideas
I've bought a handful of 70's comics in slabs (mainly Kirby, the GL/GA drug issue haha), just because I like the look of them and put them up like art pieces. Just buy what you love and you'll never be upset!
I agree buy what you like and you will never be disappointed. Thanks for joining the conversation.
I agree, I have been collecting for 40 years, and i do not own one graded book in my collection.Now i will admit to having got a book graded, I worked for someone who had an account and i used it to grade my Young Avengers #1, Why? Because i bought it at the time to try it out, didnt care for it, never bought another issue, been sitting in my box since, the book had gone way up, and was going for 900-1k on ebay, so the guy i worked for felt it would get a 9.8, 9.6 at worse, Well it came back a 9.8 and i sold it for around 980.00. I do not miss the book, dont care i dont have it anymore and made some money i needed at the time. that same book in that grade i could turn around and buy for 300 or less now. Every point you made about the grading system and the corruption is on point and i have been saying it for years ,going back to when sports cards started it.
It's great if you can fund your collecting with books. You don't care about more power to you
This was a terrific, cold hard reality check about the current state of comics. Thoughtful, rational, common sense commentary by a dealer that seems to sincerely care about the field and history. So many good silver and bronze age books essentially taken out of the market place, just to be slabbed. Making collecting harder and more expensive. They are killing the field.
Thanks for watching a lot. More to come
Well. I started collecting comics in the 70's. Back then it was about bunch of weirdos who loved comics, because they were COMICS, not because they were abstract commodities that could be see as a speculative return in investment. I went to the San Diego con when it was held in the El Cortez hotel, and it was mostly about comics. I fell out of the "hobby" (as apparently we like to call it), in the 90's-- disillusioned by the shattering of continuity that the big companies were involved in at the time (mandated, by the way, by an increased need to show continual profits for shareholders once the companies went public). I have recently returned to the comics culture, and have to admit that I am pretty shocked. The speculative aspect of the culture seems to me akin to the most egregious aspects of crypto currency, based on pyramid scheme concepts of "hype and dump," regardless of actually value or personal connection. Most of this seems connected to copper and modern comics of which there are actually THOUSANDS of copies of, in high grade. It reminds me of beenie babies-- a collectible that was ONLY made to be collected (anyone remember pogs?), and therefor inherently valueless. Golden age comics are valuable because they are scarce, not unlike gold itself. If this "hobby" is now only about seeing profits on speculative "key" comics, regardless of what it is, then I think I will demure. I love comics because they are COMICS, a quintessential aspect of pop American culture, their stories and amazing and essential art, their smell of newsprint, their thusness, and not because they could make me rich. The practice of entombing them in a plastic serving tray to only safeguard their profit commodification to me seems like a betrayal of what they actually are. Remember, the term "slab" is also used for dead bodies. Yet, if in this post human economic world that we are making for ourselves decides that the only relevance that comics have to us and our culture is in their monetary exchange, then I will kindly tip my hat and disappear behind the curtain, and enjoy my comics, leafing through their pages, smelling their smells, and being amazed by their existence. But, remember, it's all up to us.
You and me both brother the smell.
I do agree with you on most points, but , I do like the protection for my big books, I can read a reprint / facsimile at my leisure. That being said, yes the grader and the grading ability is totally subjective and does leave some doubts in my mind plus it has gotten much more expensive than when it started, you are right about the garbage books that have been graded, it’s ruined the initial idea of encapsulating to protect a big book
Yeah I agree with you. It has morphed into something that's no longer special. It's like if Rolex started giving out a watch and a Happy meal.
Everyone needs to watch this.
Thank you
You 100% right. I believe that grading books should only be to preserve a book. However there are other ways to do that by buying the capsules yourself. I feel that the value of a book has many factors like first appearance, artist, writer, and nostalgia. Keep up the great work
Thank you and we will try to keep it up. Welcome to the community
Grading modern books is fine…but the only reason I’d grade a modern book personally is 1. If it has key significance 2. Has the potential for a 9.8 grade….and that’s it. I see no point in spending money to grade a non key of miles morales Spiderman to only receive a 9.2 grade.
Exactly you're right on point. Thanks for joining the conversation
The most comfortable commentary I heard about collecting comics. Thank you and best regards. I agree with you.
Thanks for joining the conversation and the community welcome aboard
I understand grading a card like a Michael Jordan rookie. But don’t understand grading comics like you said now you can’t even read it. You can see the cover that’s it.
Thanks for joining the conversation. Welcome aboard
I get where he’s coming from he has a good point but it also brought new people some good and some bad into the industry and it’s helped a lot of the good ones be able to survive in the industry. He right 100% we need more readers. Someone who’s actually into comics needs to start one that’s a happy medium
Thank you for joining the conversation. Welcome to our community
Greeting From St. Catharines Ont. Canada. Agree with you 100 percent!!! Keep up the Great Work!!!! Question What happened to the Overstreet system?
The over Street system is still used by by many comic shops and a few of the grading companies.
Great insights sir.
That being said, I only do graded if it’s a comic I want for my collection. I’ve learned the hard way, speculating on CGC is like playing the ponies - maybe the odds are even worse.
You have gained a subscriber🙏🏻
Barry, understandable and thank you for the subscription
Collect what you like.
Absolutely but be informed
Great points. You have opened my eyes to what in industry has become. Hope to see you again and let me know if you have an web site so I can support your business and my hobby. Thanks.
Thank you for joining the conversation and the kind words. Welcome to our community!.
As a collector of over 45 years I can't agree more
Thank you
To all you illustrious, comic book collectors-when I purchase a CGC graded book I always pull out my magnifying glass, yes, we do not know what’s inside unless we read the graded notes usually that’s a safer bet. if it’s marked CGC 9.6 and I feel it’s a 9.4 I request a return etc. etc. etc.
Don't great point. Thanks for being part of the conversation.
the flip side to this is that CGC, for the most part protects you from restoration scammers. not everyone is on the up and up with all the new scams.
This is a good point, but should we only have one company doing it?
Forgive me, sir, but you must be either a Boomer or Gen X. I respect how you cut through the noise about comic readers-calling out those who chase graded collections for profit, unlike the real fans who actually love the art and stories. I’m with you. The art, the words, the raw creativity-this is what matters. You’re one of the last who sees it for what it really is. Thank you for keeping it real.
Wow, thank you very much! Very humbling to hear that. It's how I truly feel and I try to say it as often as possible so it touches as many people as possible. Welcome to our community. Hopefully there'll be more to come.
I dont disagree, but I still get keys graded or buy graded. Not because I trust CGC, but because I trust that that graded keys will be easier for my family to identify and get fair market prices for when that time comes. The thought of someone getting a raw nm batman 251 or vf giant size xmen 1 in a cheap lot auction after I pass because they were in a short box with raw walking dead reprints makes me nauseous.
Understandable. There's just companies that have higher integrity than cgc
been collecting comics since the late 70's, and when CGC came out, i couldnt stand it. thank you for talking about something i have been yelling for years. what gets me is when you see a brand new book thats been slabbed!??!?!?!??!!?!/
Thank you for joining the conversation. A lot of people think like we do. Welcome to the community
Most books should not be graded. Stick with keys, or if you personally want to preserve the book. I knew my Dr. Strange #1 would come back as a low grade, but I did it because it is a piece of my youth.
My point exactly. The only thing is to have a company as big as cgc. You need to grade a lot of books to pay the bills. Especially when your overlords or vanguard and Black Rock!. Thanks for joining the conversation and welcome aboard
Finally a mature and honest take on this scam-and scheme- ''phenomenon'', hyping up and price-inflating the comic world by scheme! Thanks a lot, for this!
Thank you for watching. I appreciate the kind words. More to come.
I've always hated cgc and slabs. Been collecting over 40yrs. Comics meant to be read. Thanks and nice looking shop.
Yes Sir thank you
You just saved me a whole bunch of money.
THANK YOU,
Andy, Annmarie's husband.
Well thank you for watching and welcome to our community
Thank you for your honest perspective. I am a comic book collector for more than 30 years and I have zero graded books. Lately I have been thinking about getting some of my key issues graded because I worry about their value decreasing. But I agree with you on all of your points. I like holding my comics. I like re-reading them. Plus there are plenty of new companies making products that help you display and protect them without incasing the comics forever.
It's not like I've never graded a book. I just don't think all of us are educated enough on the inner workings of these companies and they're not very transparent and inhibits trust.
I agree with everything that you’re saying but I have 40 and 50 year-old books I’m not sell them for $20 so they can make 1000 I have paid bills with that book when I need it so I had to grade it to make the money because it will not sell to a better price
Understandable I did say when I have to send to auction it does get graded because that is the market even if I don't agree.
When I got into comic books it wasn't about money. It was about collecting the artwork. The cool stories, the cool thing. S somehow everything got crazy and comics became just another piece of money. I never got into comic books because of money. I enjoy comic books reading them the artwork. I appreciate the people that made the comic books they are to street the artwork. How long hours they had to put in to make that comic book and all of the works to put it appreciate art. And this content was very educational.Very smart, very cool and I agree.What you actually said about the whole thing.Appreciate glathers, more guys like you in the business.Thank you for great content
Thank you very much for the very humbling compliment. I'm going to spend a lot of time trying to bring the community back together. Welcome to the community
Interesting Video. I mostly have raw books. I do agree with what you're saying. I do however grade the books I really want to keep in my collection. I do believe it's easier to sell certain graded books then raw books because it's sometimes very difficult to agree on the raw grade. The beauty is in the eyes of the beholder as they say. Raw books can hide Alot of hidden defects. So ther are pros and cons to be made. Yes your trusting a grading company to be honest and fair with you, and people who sell raw books as well. Thanks for sharing this video.
If your selling on line or through an auction house grading does increase your chances of a higher price. Right now CGC is the industry leader but should they be.
As the market grows demand will grow for graded products. It is a more official way to negotiate rather than just eyeballing and willing and dealing, although it is fun to make a deal with an individual those times are coming to an end.
I acknowledge that and I appreciate your contribution to the conversation. Welcome aboard!
COMICS ARE NOT COMMODITIES.
They're LITERATURE combined with ART.
Encasing it in plastic defeats the PURPOSE....
We have a growing group of like-minded people joining our community. Thanks for commenting
Great episode! 👏 👏 👏 You make an excellent point! 💯
True story... I cracked open my Hulk 181 graded at 8.6 I think (it was 30yrs. ago).
I just wanted to read the story and enjoy the art. It was worth it!
That was my one and only graded book.
No grades books for me.
Subscribed 👍🏼
Thanks for sharing your comic journey joining the conversation. Welcome to the community. We're going to be talking a lot comics
@@HavenForHeroes Thank you 🥰
When I first saw one of those plastic cases, my very first thought was "How do I read it"? I was surprised to find you can't open it.
My sentiments exactly. Thank you for joining the conversation and welcome aboard
I am really close to you age I, I am with you and agree brother. I have been collecting since the 70's and feel the grading is just wrong. My Silver Age books are precious, the art, the advertising and story cannot be appreciated in a slab!
Hell yeah brother. We are the Stewart's of The hobby, the guy, the people.
eBay is as much to blame for slabbing as CGC who have listed every book they have graded. Opinions very but there are millions of ways to collect. The medium is art but you’re not gonna find a Van Gogh owner who is gonna let you touch it. So I don’t want your grimy fingers on my 9.4 Silver Surfer #4! Haters gonna hate. 😊
Thanks for sharing your comics journey there are other ways to protect without grading
I don’t know how this video found me as I don’t collect comics, but I appreciated your perspective and thoughtful content.
Well thank you so much! We do a lot of other collectibles too. We appreciate your commenting welcome aboard!.
I always hear the Johnny come lately influencers say "I can't believe this guy wanted a graded price for his raw comic" as if only CGC grading is valid and all Raw copies cannot be better than a Fine unless proven by CGC.
Exactly
Glad i found your channel all the way from sunny south africa....outstanding video...truth in every word.
Thank you very much and welcome aboard
The fact that you can crack the slabs and resubmit them and get very different grades for each submission is pretty damning. The 4% of fair market value is a scam too, there should be a cap to cover insurance. And how they categorize restoration, what is and isn’t is dubious.
Agreed thanks for watching and commenting
I agree you have a handful of people deciding what graded your book is awarded which makes no sense to me. Also these grading companies have way too many grading points. I can’t tell the difference between a 6.5 and a 7.5 which can have a profound affect on the value of the book. Should they also reduce grading fees if you don’t get the desired grade? That would at least be fair to reimburse the fee costs if you did get the grade you thought it was. Thanks for sharing your view on this matter btw. 👍
Thanks for watching and joining the discussion. Stay tuned for more
5:18 - "Outside of comics, these are people that are making money on the collecting of comics. They don't create comics. They don't invest in comics." - Sure, but you could say the same thing about companies that manufacture and sell bags, boards and boxes. And to be fair, CGC (and CBCS) should NOT be investing in comics; that would create a conflict of interest.
Good point
"You have to make readers...not speculators", thus statement spoke to my Fandom soul. Thank you Sir. 🙏🏽
Well thank you sir. I appreciate it so much. Thank you for joining the conversation. Welcome to our community. We've got lots more to come.
Cgc is definitely good for the business when it comes to Golden Age comics and some silver age especially if you're worried about restoration, expensive gold and silver age books and before grading comics you were at the discretion of all sellers of what condition is it considered near mint mint very good very fine and so on so then cgc is healthy for the the comic collecting Community but yeah grading all these new books that are 5 years old and to get a 9.8 is ridiculous but the hate I see that you say about cgc and all grading companies is way overboard as I see many sellers way over grade dare books back in the day I've been collecting for almost 40 years myself and would take advantage of collectors that weren't we're not experts at grading and trusting it's better to have a third party to verify the grade especially if you're ordering through the mail when I saw back in 2000 this service offered I was like this is awesome now I don't have to worry if I want to hear my book and I buy from some seller a raw copy and it's not near mint so yeah there's a place for cgc they're not the gods of comics but they do have a place just like raw copies have a place in the community
Some good points and I've had a lot of pushback. I'm going to make a follow-up video explaining some more of what I'm looking for from a grading company