The Sanlida Saga: What We Need To Learn
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- Опубликовано: 4 июн 2024
- A commentary on the lessons we should be learning from the Sanlida controversy involving stealing content and deceiving their influencers and affiliates.
Jake Kaminski:
• Why I'm Boycotting San...
00:00 - Introduction
01:17 - The Archery Market
03:15 - Archery Influencers
06:55 - Stolen Content
09:57 - Cultural Divide
12:24 - Reputation Damage
13:44 - Message to Sanlida
===
Facebook: / nusensei
Instagram: / nusensei 
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As coach, I recommended Sanlida as first bow, but not anymore.
Exit Sanlida, hello Kinetic
Sebastien Flute is also a good brand, especially for beginners
Samick is a good brand for beginner archers or nearly all lower price models where only one model Nighthawk is the same as a PSE model because neither company makes bow. Also, PSE has some models in beginner and mid level price point on classic/traditional side of brand.
Did you know, that Kinetic is only a brand name owned by SSA Archery, a Belgian distibutor.
There Bows are made from chinese companys. There are companys like Topoint or Sanlida, that started out as suppliers for other Bow companys, that build anything you need for a Bow. Take a look at the Topoint homepage. Some of the risers you can see in their manufacture Videos look very simular to the risers from Kinetic.
Too sad, I was about to try out their products. I will not support a company stealing from my preferred content creators, period!
Same, was going to get a bow this summer. But not if they did that to Jake, followed him for ages and got good advice
Me neither. I've been a dedicated archer and bowhunter for almost my whole life. I've got quite a collection of bows, and am usually buying a new one once or twice a year, and only the gods know how much I spend on arrows and other accessories. Definitely making sure not a single penny of my money goes to Sanlida.
I, as a very newcomer to archery, am very grateful to you and to Jake Kaminski for all I have learned from both your channels.
You deserve a lot more respect than you have been shown by Sanlida and they should be shown up for what they have done.
Thank you for your great videos.
I think this was very well said by Nu. I bought my lot on tge strength of both Jake and Nu's reviews and i wish I could afford to replace them after this. Especially as im working towards becoming pro and doing a South African channel that's similar. They have broken trust and nothing less than a full public formal apology as well as removing the offending content would be a good start to establishing integrity in the sport
I'm glad you brought up the cultural divide differences, earlier during the Chinese New Year when all the businesses in China close up shop, there were people wondering where their Amazon welders were and figured it was a scam. It did not occur to to management in China to mention "no shipping" during the holidays.
Yes, this is why a cheap fiberglass one piece longbow on Amazon, the good sellers version going up to now 120 pounds almost did not arrive in time for my brothers birthday March 8th and I had bought back in January 2022, just I missed last day company was working before holidays in January.
Speaking of potential theft, Southwest is advertising the Scorpion Longbow on their site with your image, as well; dunno if you gave them permission, but they are doing it.
That's so sick 👎
Just leaving a comment so the algorithm knows this is an important message, also great didatics!
Very well said; I don't recall what you were going through in 2020, beyond what we were all going through; glad you've made it through! Always good fun interesting and honest content.
I'm pretty new to archery and my first bow is a Sanlida recurve takedown 32pounder, i bought it because of your review on the Sanlida bows and now I'm also gonna boycott the Sanlida brand because of what you have gone through, keep up the good work i always look forward to your reviews and remember that you have friends out here who support your endeavours cause we have a passion for archery 😊
Jake's call out was for archers, not the whole planet, and he wants this redressed, tried to redress it and got stone walled. How would you like it if a colleague took a small portion of your pay cheque every month because you told people you liked their work? It's THAT ridiculous! I don't agree with cancel culture but a temporary boycott sends a strong message and gets corporations to listen. I think this is very reasonable and something I hope Sanlida pay attention to.
Well i just tried to go on their site and my devises security is now stating its an unsafe site, wasn't saying that a couple of weeks ago.
@@digitaldogs233 Just tried it myself and got through, no issues. I think that just might be your issue. My concern here is it will drive traffic to them and they won't learn any lesson from this, heck it could even be financially rewarding! Jake's video was about result 8 on a Google search for the company ahead of several positive reviews of the kit.
boycotting is different from cancel culture
@@cyberlemmingasaservice7740 Right, a cancel culture would be to boycott all Chinese made bow brands even boycotting high end custom brands made by single people in China or people still making Chinese bows in old traditional methods.
Jake has been such a wholesume and valuable influence on me in my recurve journey. He feels offended and violated for a good reason. Sanlida should've done better. Disappointing. I was considering purchasing one of their most expensive plungers, but now I'm not. In fact, I don't think I'll purchase anything from them until I see a public apology, which is highly unlikely.
A bump for the algorithm I'm an old grandpa you have really helped me out and are enjoyable
Why was Leoleo archery banned by WA, when Sanlida was accepted enough to be a sponsor? I really don't understand if it's not WA admins bending over backward for money.
LeoLeo used FAKE email addresses and impersonated ACTUAL WA company staff.
LeoLeo used WA logos and graphic designs IN AN ATTEMPT to impersonate actual WA licenced-merchandise.
I'm inclined to agree with John Demmer on this one. They've ripped off other companies. Everyone knows what they do. The howls of indignation ring a bit hollow.
Strength and Fortitude to you David. Thanks for providing a balanced insight into the situation. Haven't purchased a Chinese bow, and will not.
You the man Nu sensei! Well articulated and very fair
Good one mate - FO is sometimes needed for people to get the message
Great content once again. Instead of buying new entry level or intermediate equipment consider buying from the vast second hand market. My favourite recurve set up (Wiawis Nano Max riser, Win&Win Inno Power limbs, top of the range about 10 years ago) cost me much less than new inferior items would have.
Excellent video. Thoughtful, calm reasoned, intelligent argument and information. With the added bonus of "Fuck off". Made me a proud Australian lol. You and Armin Hirmer were the very first people I discovered on here when I started archery during lockdown. While I loathe the term "influencer" as usually those people are fuckwits with anything but knowledge, you and Hirmer excel at archery and have so much knowledge and no bullshit. I have relied on content-makers here for information, Hirmer more as he is Asiatic archer but still there is so much knowledge being shared for our benefit. (I wrote down your technique checklist and keep it with me when shooting) I am very grateful for it. Hirmer played a part in my choice of first bow. That is why this all pisses me off.
Most recurve people at my club follow Jake Kaminski, with our club prez an avid fan. Recurve ppl lurve the tech talk (I am way to thick lol) It is actually real influence from knowledge and experience, so how dare Sanlida do this. I don't think it is a cultural thing, it is more of a fuck-you thing. It's exploitative and entitled. And opportunistic. I was hoping there would be a legal consequence as nothing seems to smack a point home like a big fat lawsuit but I do get the juggernaut nightmare legal labyrinth thing. I think they know that too. So hopefully Kaminski's reputation and influence will help jolt things into place. Looks like a big fat mess.
I had only recently heard of Sanlida and will now not be looking further. There are other options from China so it is pretty stupid of them. Respect and asking permission is that hard.
PS NUSensei when are you gonna come and visit us at BHCA. 😊 I know it is the other side of the city but would be cool. We have all types of archers and very chill atmosphere :D
That's actually going to happen
@@NUSensei Awesome!
Strange, I never heard of Sanlida, and just two days ago, some videos on Sanlida popped up on my feed. And then Nusensei comes out with this. I never considered Sanlida, and looks like I never will. I'll stick with Hoyt, Samick, and Southwest.
Yeah that was pretty dumb using images and video screenshots knowing full well they had no permission. Will wait to see if Jeff at archery addiction chimes in and see what his take on it is. I know I wont buy their stuff but its based on a previous issue with a riser so this just cements my opinion of sanlida and not in a good way. Pretty sad when a large company like sanlida has to resort to back alley bs so to speak.
That was my initial reaction. I wasn't mad - it didn't affect me in any way and I didn't really care if I end up on someone's page for promotion. It doesn't mean I approve, it just isn't worth the effort. I'm more baffled by their PR choices. They intentionally picked the people to feature their products, and in one swoop they've alienated every single one.
My heart goes out to you for the difficulty that was induced by the lockdown. Glad we all made it thru. ❤
I myself am an Archery-Gear and Content Creator, mainly focusing on shooting traditional Asiatic bows. I've also seen some of my videos featured by other manufacturers without them ever asking for my permission. However, those individuals were at least fair enough to include a link directly to my channel or mention me on their website. The way "SANLIDA" is behaving here is absolutely unacceptable and dishonorable! Therefore, I will not purchase any Sanlida products or recommend them. Thank you for your video, and best regards.
Honestly all I've really seen sanlida used for is beginner bows (one piece ones) and some limbs. Just go with kinetic if you are actually putting together a setup.
Basically just saying it wouldn't be a huge loss (other than the training/beginner bows for clubs I guess)
Not getting permission from creators is just plain inexcusable though, its quite clear they don't care and when it shows in what they are doing you know its too late.
I love the way you swear in this video: just in the same measured and deliberate tone that you say everything :D
Sanlida has messed up massively, and I hope WA takes appropriate steps. I hope people also boycott other brands that blatantly rip off the hard work done by other companies, particularly TBow, who seem to make some of the nastiest knock-off bows you can find.
Even still no one can make simple chart with varying spines and what weights they can accommodate lol
I found it amusing when Topoint used a clip of me from the NZ Nationals a few years ago - but I’m not the producer of the RUclips channel. Not sure if they or ArcheryNZ had anything to say about it.
This is the thing that some people are missing. It's not just influencers who should have known better when accepting products. If you post a photo of yourself using their equipment on your social media, they will use it. You held their product, therefore they have the right your image for promotion. They take without seeing the need to give back. The bigger warning is really for anyone buying Chinese products that any of their photos, whether their own or photos of them taken by someone else, can and will be used.
@NUSensei As I said, it amused me - I had no real issue, and I'm close to having my next Topoint bow delivered. I've shot my best scores with them, so happy to pay 1/3 price of US bows and accept they don't have all the levels of adjustments. Remember that NZ is a small market, so archery shops here probably have to add more %age of their overheads to each product they sell.
There is no mistakes here, if you tag a chinese branded product in a public photo, it will end up in fake 5 star review at the very least.
I genuinely like quality imitations and when done right, I recommend them. On two occasion, that I know of, my photos became fake reviews on multiple sites. And I have zero public image.
Respect. Solid vid.
Great insight about the importance of the “collective”. In China.
Collective doesn't mean as of the general human aspect as with ethics, but more like a hivemind, where everyone follows the queen - opportunism is also quite natural for humans, but if one hasn't an upbringing towards a conscience, things will all be about imitation and cameras everywhere is a bad substitute.
A concrete individual and an authentic community (made up of authentic individuals) also doesn't have to relate to -isms like collectivism or individualism (ideologies).
Common chinese methods.
*edit
Congratz on the 200K subs!
After reviewing both your channel and of Jakes, I bought the Hoyt satori instead. I could not support a company that steals from others no matter how much cheaper the product is.
Well done!
Hey, sorry to hear you were in a dark place.
I hope you are better now.
"creeping half an inch on my anchor" excuse me sir that was a full inch creep you showed.
In all seriousness they have great products & I got my first bow + a large set of arrows for my latest bow from them. This is 100% disrespectful. Hope they can make this right.
Fair
Sanlida's behaviour is typical asian triad/gangster. You need to stand up to them to earn their respect. Do not go soft on them. That's how they lose respect for you.
They could of said check out these reviews and provided links. Too easy.
How can he say he doesn’t promote them when he has a link to them which he gets a piece of the sale?
Dream on.
Honestly not a surprising thing to come out of that company, they've always been toeing the line testing how far they could go.
Oww wow i was going to grab the Hermit X10 ilf and while in their site i did see you and Jake, obviously that just reaffirmed that they must be a good brand. And i only knew about that bow threw the another archery channel that i wont name because thats being abit harsh, he has no role in this so why mention him. But he said it was the best bow he has, and he has alot. So idk, just makes me wonder now how truthful some CC are, or if they actually did get a kickback, because this channel claimed the Hermit X10 was not in production any more, and only had a small stock left, yet alot of his comments was saying they just irdered one, and obviously i looked and there it was, but no claims of clearing stock. I also now find it very suspicious that my security on my device is warning me that its an unsafe site, and it didnt state that about 2 weeks ago. Very suspicious, and really makes me feel how truthful are some of these content creators because i tried to find revews of the Hermit X10 on other channels and couldnt find any, only a couple of guys with really short videos shooting with one. This is all very strange.
I was offered the Hermit X10 with the caveat that they were out of stock, but they were restocking in May.
@@NUSensei
That's odd because a few said in end of march that they brought one. But they could be just fluffing the content creator. But it was in their site when i looked. So i don't know. Maybe was just on there but not if i ordered it. That happens, not saying their bows are not good, just their business approach obviously needs to be looked at.
WTF, indeed.
If you’re a person going around harassing people who make videos a hard time you’re probably going to hell.
Did they break a contract?
They did not make a contract to begin with. Sanlida arbitrarily took content they didn't own for commercial purposes.
Chinese business ethics!
I'll be boycotting til the situation is made right and even then I don't see myself buying or recommending any of there gear.
I'm a fan of both yourself & Jake and whilst you mention you're "just a high school teacher", well, you're far more influential on archery than any teacher I've met !
Disclosure - I do have/use a Sanlida recurve sight. It's very well made and has been as reliable as my significantly more expensive Shibuya one, although I do suspect the Sanilida is a copy of an even more expensive brand. But that's just what China does, they are very good at producing near exact copies of designs at significantly cheaper prices. The whole culture is different from Western countries and if you work with them it's often hard to understand from a Western perspective.
I'm not defending what Sanlida did with Jake's content/brand images but I do understand how someone in their organisation decided that it was a good idea and just went ahead without asking him. It's the way they live, the culture, the accepted moral stance and we just don't get it. You've touched on that in this video and done a good job in explaining that basically, if they see something produced featuring their name/product then they'll just go ahead and use it .
Like it or not, it's just the way the world is and we (or Jake) aren't going to change it any time soon and sadly there's no such thing as bad publicity.
I've found Top Archery to be an honest company
Sanlida have good bow but sadly they make thier brand not good
As an overseas Chinese person, I fully agree with you in this situation. However, I think you should't blindly generalize that bad impression to "All Chinese companies." The thing is, there are over 3 MILLION companies/brands/factories in China, and they all have different morals (just like 3 million individuals). Sure, I wouldn't say their average level of copyright awareness is as good as the western counterparts. But there are still many good examples, and things have been improving in recent years.
I certainly don't hold that generalisation, though the majority of Western viewers might think so. I am, however, specifically referring to Chinese archery companies, not literally all three million Chinese companies.
I make it clear in my video that my negative experiences are not exclusive to Chinese archery companies. Of the three companies that have taken my content, two are Chinese, one was American.
A Chinese company was one of the top-three relationships I've built. Sadly, Chaser isn't around anymore, but that was legitimately a relationship built from the ground up, not a corporate manager expecting me to do dirty work.
As I said, I was genuinely hoping that Sanlida was going to be a better example, but this was not the case. I hope that they can sort it out.
@@NUSensei Thanks for the clarification! I did miss some parts of this video. It makes sense now. I hope Sanlida (and some others) could learn a hard lesson, which is good for them at the end of the day, as many Chinese companies are seeking success overseas nowadays. I fully support boycotting Sanlida.
generalization is important when it comes to a culture of collectivists.
@@BeetleBuns Don't flex like you really know what "collectivists" means, its role in the Chinese culture, and its relationship to stereotypical generalization. Lol
Yes, except that humans are breathing and that imitation alone doesn't make us us, you and me.
There is a difference between abstractions and concrete things and all thought generalizes - an individual and a collective doesn't have to relate to individualism and collectivism.. this is also a lot about authenticity and there sure is a lot of that lacking everywhere on the planet, and without authentic individuals, all communities become an performative act, which can be seen a lot online, especially within games, where every 12 year old becomes Superman, but fears to look others into the eyes outside of constructed stuff (the Internet is imaginary)...
Disagree with the "influencer" comments... the amount of people that bought a Wise Guy index release because Cam Haines uses it....
I like their stuff. I'll wait to see how they react to these vids before I buy anything else from them 👍🎯❤️🇺🇸 ps, the f bomb shocked me😂
Sanlida
Sux
Grrrrrrrr
You all know that companies like Sanlida have no respect for manufactures intellectual property, you mention them outright copying designs, yet you still promote and reviewed their products. Why would you expect them to show you any more respect than manufactures, seems you are only worried when it effects you directly.
It doesn't affect me and I'm not worried. I'm not affiliated with Sanlida. I review Sanlida like I do with any other product that is sent to me, that I borrow, or I buy on my own. I don't promote Sanlida over any other brand. Consumers are free to make their own judgement over whether or not they want to buy from Chinese companies.
Sue them
The problem is you have to do that over in China, with an unfamliar legal system and having your partner with local legal representation. As Nu has pointed out, that’s beyond the means of most if not all archery content creators even with their resources combined. The other thing about suing, is you are awarded based on the monetary damage you incurred. As Nu pointed out, he doesn’t lose any meaningful revenue from Sanlida stealing his image. If the potential damages awarded are outweighed by the legal costs, even if they win, the content creators are still the losers. Trying to fight large corporations is a difficult situation to find yourself in. What does hurt them is lack of sales and damage to their reputation.
Sanlida compound bows are popular around here for hunting. Never seen any of their target stuff but the compounds I've seen are solid, if not cutting edge.
Cheers.
This is not affecting quality of their product. if you don like them, you are not obligated to anything.
The thing is, sanlida makes good bows especially for the beginner...at a very veryyyyyy affordable price for most people on the planet. Yes I wish sanlida didn't use Jakes image without his permission. No I won't boycott them because they make archery affordable for the poor person. They have essentially democratized the archery market.
I think what needs to happen is these companies like sanlida need to take note of how to maintain good relationships with Western individuals in particular. There should be an open dialogue between San lida and the archery influencers.
There is always WNS if you want good value gear
There are other companies that sell bows at affordable prices for “poor people”. You don’t have to buy Sanlida to get a lot of bang for your buck.
@@ExiledExia I haven't found any that provide similar quality gear at that price point. I've looked around because Sanlida doesn't offer any left-handed risers, and I didn't have any success finding an equivalent bang for the buck. Can you give some recommendations?
@@ThirdLawPair ah I see. WNS makes great affordable bows. If you’re looking for an affordable traditional bow, I can recommend Oak Ridge for example. Hope it helps :)
@@ExiledExia Thanks for the recommendation. I've been deer hunting with the Black Hunter recurve, and it shoots great but it has a very small sight window. I liked the idea of upgrading to the Sanlida Hermit 10 not only because of the carbon foam limbs, but it has a very tall sight window. I'm looking for a high-performance hunting recurve with a nice tall sight window that I can shoot off the shelf traditional style. Most setups like that that I can find will set me back well over 1000 buck.
Unreliable
How can anyone be surprised about this?? Happens all the time... the worlds filled with real problems, this kind of stuff reminds me of kids on facebook...
Example only: l do all my work for free and it just so happens that customers send me gift money and products later. But no, I don't get paid.😂
Sanlida all the way. I dont earn big bucks. 😂
Calling the entire planet to boycott a product it is like a Cancel culture. 😂. It's his problem not mine.
Shitty businesses practices need to be called out. Ultimately, it's your decision what you do about it, but I for my part, would like to avoid companies like that, wherever possible.
@@ItsJakeTheBrake Jake should have avoid doing a review without any written agreement. He is a known archer 2 Olympic silver medal on his neck. He has something to loose. But for us regular people. We don't care.
Someone who does not honor his agreements is also able not to honor warranty. But everyone is more or less free to do what he wants with his money.
@@markod7662 lesson for jake, don't accept any free products, it is not free. 😁
They literally re-edited clips of Jake talking about the equipment to make it look like Jake was endorsing the product. Giving an honest review of a free product is not an invitation to fabricate a fake endorsement. You don't mind when people lie to you?
Dude, your videos are all 10 minutes longer than they need to be.
YOUR INCREDIBLE NUSENSEI!!!...
ITS NOT SO LONG AGO THAT YOU WERE BLATENTLY ARGUING AGAINST AND CRITISCISING THOSE WHO TRIED TO EXPLAIN THE VERY IDEA THAT RIGHT HAND SIDE SHOOTING WAS EVER A DOABLE THING. BUT NOW, YOU ARE SHOWING YOURSELF RIGHT UP THERE SHOOTING THAT WAY IN PROMINENT SHOTS. IS THERE ANYWHERE IN YOUR LIBRARY OF VIDEOS WHERE YOU CLEARLY AND OPENLY ADMITTED THAT YOU WERE WRONG? ...... AND YOU SPEAK OF ALITISM BUT YOU ARE ABVIOUSLY ABOUT THE MOST ALITIST ONE OUT THERE IN ARCHERY.
If you are going to boycott businesses that have taken advantage (illegally) of individuals, organisations or nations then I suggest that you take a long hard look at the selfish irresponsible business practices of your OWN beloved USA, before criticising others that may have ‘hurt’ you personally.
Shame.
Perhaps mommy can make it better ..?! 😥
Nusensei is in Australia….
What are you talking about, he is a vietnamise born in australia 😂
Whataboutism
This makes zero sense.