How I made a Talharpa.
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- The Talharpa, Tagelharpa, Jouhikko, or Bowed-Lyre, is a 14th century instrument originating from Scandinavia. For this reason, I feel that "Viking Cello" is another acceptable name lol. This build was inspired by another, more famous, RUclipsr's Tagelharpa: Gnaal.
LINKS:
Patreon: www.patreon.co...
FunnyJunk Post: funnyjunk.com/...
MUSIC:
"Unwritten Return" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons...
Hi, I have been researching Talharpas for a while, getting organised to make one (I normally make Lyres) and I must say that yours is up there in the best made and good sounding ones I have seen. Great work. I look forward to see you future wood working projects.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that!
I think this is because his includes a soundpost. If you make one as big as his, you might also want to consider adding a bass-bar in as well. Look up how violin soundboards are constructed and it'll give you a good idea on what to do. You sort of vaguely chuck a long brace up and down the soundboard under your lowest string and directly below the bridge.
The second thing you can do to get the best sound out of your instrument is to put the little cuts in the bridge on either side that violin and cello bridges have. Plucked string bridges vibrate up-and-down, but bowed string bridges vibrate side-to-side, and they need to transfer the momentum to up-and-down in order to get some sound out of the instrument. These little cuts on either side of the violin's bridge allow the bridge to sort of wobble and "stamp it's feet", translating the vibration to an up-and-down one.
That's literally all you need to do to maximize the volume and quality of your bowed instrument. I've been considering making one of these for a while too, so if you ever do get around to it you should post it!
Looks and sounds far better than most home builds I've seen on YT. Quality wood and a proper bass bar and soundpost really worked out.
Thank you very much! Modern techniques for an ancient instrument lol
Amazing work sir! Sounds fabulous.
Thank you so much! :)
Man that sounds amazing!
Thank you so much!
Thanks for sharing the Talharp making! It sounds great!
And thank you for your kind words! I'm happy that you enjoyed it :)
6:47 First Sound : Epona´s Song xD great^^
Your Talharpa looks and sounds very beautiful. Like it very much :)
Thank you very much! :) Yih lol Zelda rules xD
You did INCREDIBLE! I'm going to be building one, myself with no prior experience with these, or wood in general LOL.
Thank you very much! And I wish you luck! They're a cool instrument for sure, and when I was researching them, I learned that they can basically be as complex or as simple as you want them to be lol. Some people successfully make them out of what looks like a shoebox, so just have fun with it. Crafting things is always rewarding!
that is fucking sick dude
Thank you so much!
Neat, I recommend that you make some horsehair strings as well. One thing on the bow, the ability to tighten the string on the bow using your hands is very helpful for getting the bow to hit one, two or three strings as you are playing (assuming your bridge is arched.) For good sound transfer, you want your bridge to be as thin as possible.
I did consider horsehair strings, but they were going to be more expensive, more difficult, and less stable than the archery line lol so I decided against them. They do have a very specific tone though. Mad respect for the players that use horsehair strings. And yes! That's something that I'm still experimenting with. It's strange but kind of nice having control over the bows tension like that.
This is a kind of Viking cello. Such musical instruments were also widely distributed throughout Europe. There were smaller ones, the so-called "hoots", "guisles", and there were bigger ones even than this instrument, they had more strings and a larger resonator body. This is where the history of all stringed bowed instruments comes from. Postglacial humanity rapidly developed its culture, crafts, agriculture, and construction. This is a beautiful tagelharp, its sound transports us like a time machine to the distant past...
Thank you so much for your kind words. There's something magical about old instruments. I feel like they reconnect us with a part of ourselves that we've drifted too far from.
very nice work
Thank you!
Nice job. It looks very nice and sounds great :)
Thank you so much! :)
Very nice. Regarding the bow, you should check out the Korean Haegum, which features the bow design with hair purposely kept loose, and the player squeezes the grip to vary the tension while playing.
Interesting! Reminds me of a Chinese Erhu. Yeah, the tension on my bow is such that I pretty much have to do the same lol
Great job!
Thanks broseph
Cool build!!
Thank you very much!
Omfg this sounds n looks amazing ! I would soo buy one from u ! Reminds me of A Plague tale innoccence
Thank you so much for the compliment! That really means a lot :)
You did a great job thanks for sharing the build . 🎶🌈😎
And thank you for your kind words! Glad you enjoyed :)
The hardest part with my talharpa is the damn pressure fit tuning pegs. I might have to remake them. I posted a 30 second update on where I'm at in my project.
That's awesome! It's great that you have the peg shaper. I really need to get one of those as well. I have a reamer for the hole but didn't get a peg shaper lol. Are they made of a hard wood?
@@englman-oc3893 I have the shaver but nothing to attach the pegs to the drill so I can actually use it. The reamer attaches to my drill at least. So, I'm here manually sharpening red oak in the shaver. Not ideal. #fail #ouch
@@jcmusc yeah, doing them by hand like that would be tough. I don't know if it would work, but you could maybe try putting a dowel with a hole through the end of it in the chuck of your drill, then tightly tie the peg to that as close to the center-point as you can?
@@englman-oc3893 I need to find a Ratchet key that's big enough to fit the T shaped tuning peg. Then maybe it will work.
Very nicely done. I'd encourage people to use spruce or cedar for the top plate and use thicknesses compatible for instruments for the top back and sides. The only real specialized tools people need to invest in would be a reamer and peg shaper.
What would you recommend for the body?
@@Udoch look at what's made for cellos and violins, they only use wood that works good for producing sound
I would pay you to build one for me, but I don't got the money. Just know your skill as a tagelharpa maker is profitable
Thank you so much! I would love to one day sell instruments, so I really appreciate that :)
Very nice looking and sounding instrument. You went so far as to add a soundpost so kudos, I think that greatly improves the sound quality of your instrument over others out there. I really like the hole you put at the top of the soundbox, I might copy it ;). If you make another try adding a bass-bar and using a bowed-instrument style bridge. They can substantially improve the quality of the sound in your instruments.
Edit: I missed the part where you added a bassbar! I am the biggest of rubes!
Thank you so much for your kind words! I actually watched a lot of violin/cello making videos alongside talharpa making videos when I was preparing to make this instrument lol so I copied some of the techniques. The only thing that I dislike about the instrument is the VERY slight arch that I gave to the bridge. It makes it difficult to hit all three at the same time, so I think I may actually correct it soon. Just FYI if you build your own! ;)
@@englman-oc3893 I probably will, I might make two bridges to ameliorate the issue of not being able to bow all 3 at the same time, and swap them on the go depending on the song. I'm hoping mine will sound as nice, it'd be really cool to be able to switch between ye olde drones and a functionally similar instrument to a cello.
I have one last question though, and it might be in the video and I missed it, but was there any other bracing you put under the soundboard? Or is it exactly like a violin/cello? Would you recommend any in the long run?
@@SassyTesla No other bracing was used. Tailpiece, bridge, and pegs aside, this instrument is almost entirely made of 2 full pieces of wood lol. All that is inside the instrument is the sound post and the bass bar.
@@englman-oc3893 Very noice. I'll definitely take a whack at it then, it could be a really nice instrument. Last question, but how deep was your instrument's body? I don't recall the exact dimension of the plank from the video.
@@SassyTesla 36mm on the inside from the back of the top piece to the inner surface of the body piece.
49mm measuring up the side.
The top piece is 4mm thick.
Hi, would you mind going a bit more into detail about the strings? I've been working on the planning for my own Talharpa for a few weeks now, but information on homemade strings has been a struggle for me to find.
Am I right to assume these strings are made up of smaller cords put together? How are they combined/put together? Just wrapped/twisted together or is there a sort of 'binding' thing put on them to hold them keep them together? Or does the tension of being strung on the actual instrument do that? Do you know how much the cord material affects the sound of the instrument? You said you used archery polyester cord, while I've found a few other makers who have used nylon fishing line or even cello/guitar strings. I'm aiming for mine to have a bit of a deeper cello-like voice, i'm curious to know if string material is a variable to consider in that.
Certainly, I remember it being a pain for me as well lol.
That assumption is correct, for each of the strings I took B50 archery line (basically a spool of waxed polyester, as I understand it) and cut lengths of smaller cords to make up each of the strings. The thinnest required 7, middle 9, thickest 11. As for how they're secured, you just tie both ends of the string bundle together so that they don't come loose, then gently twist them a bit so that they stay together better once the tension present. I didn't count the number of times that I twisted the strings or anything, but I tried not to do it too much or too little, for whatever that's worth. To answer you directly: There's no applied "binder" or anything to the length of the string and yes, the tension is mostly what keeps them together. It's possible that the thin layer of wax on the archery line helps hold the individual cords together though, just not certain.
If you're aiming for an instrument with a deeper cello-like tone, you may need to consider making a longer and deeper-bodied instrument than the one I've made. My instrument was based around a large viola in terms of size/scale. Length and body depth are what tend to determine an ability to produce deeper notes properly (think of the difference between a violin, cello, and upright bass). With that in mind, you may also need to consider string material if you do end up making an instrument that's capable of producing the deeper notes, because even on my instrument, I've noticed that the deepest/thickest string is not entirely stable. If I press on it a little too hard with the bow, it will pretty easily change pitch. It's possible that adding more cords to the string bundle would help this, but I haven't tried it. I say this not to recommend a specific string type, necessarily, but rather just as a consideration. Metal strings would be more stable, but they also add a lot more pressure to the overall instrument, are kind of costly for decent ones, and (in my opinion) don't sound quite as good for talharpa specifically.
I hope this was helpful and if you have any further questions, I'm happy to help if I can!
Archery line you say...
Dident think about that. Well good thing that I'm a archer then.
I'm seriously thinking about making an Tagelharpa, and were looking for horsehair for the strings. But using Archery strings would be a F tonne easier to get my hands on.
Oh yeah, definitely. It's apparently more stable for tuning as well. Takes a little while for the string to stretch to where it wants to be, but after it does it's pretty stable.
Nice build!
Glad to see that Gnaal inspires people to make their own instrument!
Thanks for this!
Thank you so much! Gnaals creation and the blueprints for it were a tremendous help in creating my instrument :)
@@englman-oc3893 Hey! Any chance you could share with me where to find these blueprints? I feel like I've been looking all over! :)
@@leifhaaland2300 Absolutely! Check out this video(link below) and look in the description for his Facebook page. That's where you can find the blueprints for Gnaal, as well as many photos for its creation. ruclips.net/video/muRr8WqrU48/видео.html&ab_channel=ELDRIM
@@englman-oc3893 Thanks for the reply! Someone else told me to look there too, and although his videos are brilliant and very informative I can't seem to find the blueprints on the facebook page. Perhaps it has been removed? (or I am blind)
@@leifhaaland2300 Should be under photos, toward the top. He has several drawings, but also two images that are more blue-print like (white background), with albeit limited dimensions given(really just total length and width). He has a few videos on his channel where he talks more about extra dimensions like thickness, string length, etc. I'd say check out the videos that look like Q&A's. There's not too many to sift through, so it shouldn't be too bad :) plus if you want to know anything more specific, I can always try to answer that directly!
the sound post its glued? PS: looking to make my own one and this vid its awesome
Thank you so much! The sound post is not glued. It is held in place with friction, as it is cut to be VERY SLIGHTLY longer than the distance between the two surfaces on the inside. Then the tension of the strings will press down on the top of the instrument to hold it even more securely. I wish you the best of luck in creating your own instrument, it's very rewarding :)
I think back in the day chellos might have done the string rosin thing before the steel strings where used.
I built one but now I have the problem of how to make the strings, since I have horsehair, how should I braid them to get the right notes? (c3,g3,c4)
@langwolfendaniel I'm not entirely sure since you're using horse hair and I used archery line. Similarly to the archery line, though, I would think that you would want to measure out a decent number of hairs and increase/decrease it incrementally. After you find an amount that seems sufficient, you probably want to just twist each end of the string in opposite directions, instead of braiding it. My fear is that braiding it might deaden the vibration too much or something, but I'm not sure. I'm certainly not an expert on the Talharpa, so these are just my meager suggestions.
@@englman-oc3893 ok but what fiber is used for the bowstring??
Do you know approximately what the dimensions are? I'm especially interested in the depth of the main body. There seem to be so many ways to craft one it's insane
Internal body cavity depth from the inside of the back to the back of the top piece is ~32mm. The good thing about this instrument is that it really can be made just about however. Better materials and some knowledge of violin/cello making can help elevate it, but it isn't even necessary lol. I can't give every single dimension, but it's basically ~38.5" length by ~8" width. Just shy of ~2" deep.
@@englman-oc3893 Even with those simple dimensions you have helped vastly. I appreciate you taking the time to help and measure!
It's a beautiful instrument you've made, thank you very much for your help and I hope you're having a wonderful life!
It sounds heavy
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Спасибо!
I wish I could just buy one.
That's actually what prompted me to make my own lol they're really expensive for an instrument that's arguably MUCH more simple to make than a violin/cello.
Well done! How did you tighten the bow hair to the bow? I just finished my first Tagelharpa a view days ago. But as you experienced the part with the horse hair and the bow was extremely hard for me. Would appreciate some tips!
So.. I sort of just brute forced it a bit. I tied the knot in the end near the handle/frog area first, then pulled the hair through the tip of the bow, loosely tied a knot, and then put it under a good amount of tension/pulled down on the bow to flex it slightly. That way when I finished the knot and let it go, it was under at least SOME tension that way. I'll admit, that didn't work nearly as well as I had hoped it would though. I still have to press my fingers against the horsehair when I'm bowing to make sure that I have sufficient tension.
@@englman-oc3893 that's a good thing, what you'll learn playing a tagleharpa, is that your ability to use your fingers to change the bow tension as you are playing helps you select which strings get bowed.
i dont know if you told and i missed it, but what is the sound board made from?
Hey, sorry for the slow reply. The soundboard is made of Bolivian Rosewood.
@@englman-oc3893 much appreciated
Time to build an actual cello
Not going to lie, I'd love to attempt that at some point. That's actually a project me and my dad talked about doing years ago and never got around to.
Hi ENGLMAN-OC, I am currently working on building a Talharpa and was wondering if you know how many strands are in each string?
The thin string is 7, middle is 9, thickest is 11. You could MAYBE get away with using 1 strand less for each string though, because I sort of feel the bass string might honestly benefit from being a little bit thinner. Not sure though since I haven't tested that. Feel free to ask anymore questions, I'll help however I can :)
@@englman-oc3893 Thank you so much
@@englman-oc3893 awesome. I just ordered some b55 archery string 🎯
здорово вышло
Thank you! :)
Amazing! Which strings you used?
Sorry! I am only just now seeing this lmao. I made my own strings out of archery line :)
@@englman-oc3893 thank you 😊
Steel talharpa for your next challenge build?
But yeah, super cool build, love the sound
@@drunkenbogan Thank you! I honestly wonder how that would sound. One made out of tempered stainless sheet might actually be pretty resonant..
What were the dimensions you used
For which part specifically?
@@englman-oc3893 Every part
@@englman-oc3893 The body and the bow
@@Udoch Body length is 39in and slightly over 8in wide, bow length is slightly over 26in
Hell yes. How well does it keep it's tuning?
At the current D,A,D tuning, it holds it decently. Long enough to play for a little while. But I think the polyester strings stretch a bit or something over time because just leaving it untouched over night will still bring it out of tune by about a half-step to a whole-step.
@@englman-oc3893 I'm sure the tuning would be more fuss with natural fibers. I mean, I feel like I always have to check guitar tuning, even being synthetic.
@@_swordfern Definitely, Talharpa strings are traditionally made using horse hair and those instruments REALLY have a tough time staying in tune lol
@@englman-oc3893 I like your choice the best so far. I ordered some b55 archery cord. I'm sampling my pattern off my acoustic bass guitar which puts the scale at exactly 3 ft. I was tempted to just use bass strings. Maybe in a second model. I do want a "historical" mock-up.
did you make a case?
I did not. I just let it sit in the chair in my room lol
What was the thickness of that maple slab you used for the body?
1.75 inches or 4.45cm
@@englman-oc3893 wow that's it? Thought it wood be deeper
@@chriswayne8820 The inside cavity is technically ~4mm less deep as well, thanks to the thickness of the back lol I was surprised by how well the instrument projects despite being fairly shallow.
I was surprised at that as well. I've played acoustic instruments my whole life and the bigger the body (and thickness of the strings) the bassier the tone. Well I can't wait to put this together. I also bought the type of strings that you suggested I was going to go with horse hair but I really dig the sound and tone of the strings that you used. Really awesome video man
@@chriswayne8820 Thank you so much :) I hope you enjoy the end result!
Do you have a blue print of this to share?
Not really. I have a drawing, that doesn't really have measurements on it, on my Patreon. I should probably make a more detailed blue print and try selling it, considering all of the research that I put into this project lol