Kody: Of all the explanations I have heard on Thermal Mass - this one (describing the concrete mass as a "capacitor" and the insulation as a "resistor") is one of the best I've seen. Beautifully and clearly explained...
I sure wish you lived a few hundred miles further south. I am in Missoula MT and I am having a difficult time finding a builder with IFC experience and the forethought to build as you do. I sure appreciate your videos as I have watched hours of them. Keep up the quality work and I might just feel confident enough to build it myself someday.
Great video and explanation of the pro's of an ICF over stick frame. I'm thinking of building a Modern ICF home, looking for a passive home design and possibly net zero here in Nova Scotia. Kody here's your chance to design, build and video a project from scratch. You can test and prove all these facts of ICF. Thanks for the video's
I've lived in a ICF home for 21 years now. Thermal mass does have impact. We've learned to live with it. Many years ago we took a trip during xmas time. Heat was set to 60F. Took two days of running the heat pump to get back to 70F. Talked to a HVAC engineer and he told me if you build a ICF home you should use a software program designed for commercial buildings to determine sizing. Commercial software takes into account thermal mass. That was back about 18 years ago. One thing I do is not let the temp get more than about 4 degrees from my desired setting. In summer I like about 75F so the warmest I let it get to is 79 or 80 when I go to work. Winter time I never let the house get below 68F. Otherwise it takes the 3 ton HP hours/a day to get the temp back to where I want it. During the shoulder seasons of Fall and Spring you have to watch out when the sun shines strongly. A good sunny day can heat the house to 73 or 74. Two degrees warmer than we like. Sometimes more. This season we had some very sunny days. Outside temps only got into the 50's but by bedtime the house was still 75ish.
@@uptokode I like ICF. ICF is different than a typical wood house. You learn how to get the best from it. You need to be aware of how the home reacts when it comes to HVAC. love the thick walls. Love the lack of sound. I've slept through many storms. In strong winds...no creaking of the walls. No worry of rotting wood. It is KISS compared to some passive house wall designs. So my home is about 3600 square feet of condition space. Ranch with a walkout to the south. 6 inch ICF on main floor 8 inch ICF for the basement 2.5 inch foam, both sides. Eco-Block which I believe is no longer around. Pellla triple glass windows. 3 ton closed loop geothermal heat pump forced air. ERV. Plenty of windows. A lot facing south. Two foot roof overhang. Heat load calculations said the house needed 42,000 BTU for heat and 20,000 BTU's worth of cooling. Heat load calc's done by a local electric utility. Part of a program to encourage more heat pumps they did the cals. The HVAC fan is ran 24x7. In winter I never want the temps to get below 68. Otherwise it takes forever for the home to heat up to 72. If it is really sunny that can easily add two degrees or more to the south side rooms. My current system is undersized for the coldest months. The polar vortex had us running a gas fireplace often. In summer or high humidity times the HVAC system doesn't do a good job in bringing down the moisture as it is oversized for what is needed so it short cycles. Sometimes I run a dehumidifier in the basement. If not home I let the house get to 78ish and then kick on the AC to take it down to 72 for sleeping. That can take hours but it does a decent job in removing moisture. I know some newer HVAC units and controls can deal with this issue. If I were to build again, which I'm thinking about doing...I'd do the following: Nudra with the extra foam to the outside. 6" worth of concrete. Air to water Heatpump for heating and hot water. Something like a Nordic unit out of NB. www.nordicghp.com/product/nordic-products/air-source-heat-pump/air-to-water/ Zender as an ERV. Radiant heat everywhere. Basement slab, garage slab, maybe thin slab on suspended wood floors or wall radiators. Reason: comfort and low noise. I've been in radiant heated homes. It is hands down the most comfort. I hate the noise of the forced air system. Especially when the house is so quiet you can hear almost everything. Cooling: water to air fan coil or mini split(s) for cooling. but more likely the mini splits. Heads in the bedrooms and one in the living room. Mini splits are inexpensive and can provide stand alone de-humidification as well as heat in shoulder seasons.
@@BobLobsiger Your ICF house walls are not the problem it is your windows and doors and your wood roof. Best windows triple pane today are at best an around R-value of 10. Most doors are no better. So to change the outcome you need to limit the windows and door openings and sizing. Between windows and doors in a wood build house is at least 50% of heating or cooling problems. it will be no different in an ICF house. Also what way your house faces along with the number of windows. So south and west windows and doors can be a problem to take a good look at in North America.
Get a smart thermostat with a schedule, and run the heat pump at times of maximum coefficient of power - run it all day during winter in heat mode, and run it at night in summer in cooling mode. In other houses you would have to do the opposite (or run it 24/7) and suffer from lower CoP on the heat pump. Turn the thermal mass to your advantage.
Good info : Look at QuadLock ICFs all those insulation “R” value upgrades are part of the system and it only has four components to the wall (QuadLock) also all angles and curves are made in the field . A well engineered system and great support system!
@@chasjones5756 I've watched tons of videos on ICF (all brands) & I was leaning towards Nudura, do you have experience with both ? If so how would you compare the two ? Any pros & cons to consider ? Thanks
@@littlewingpilot Fire ratings, webbing or studs, holding power for finishing, size of block and time to build, R values, versatility in construction, fully engineered if needed for your area and laws are just a few for you to consider. I feel QuadLock fall behind in some to most of these areas. But you need to make up your own mind on this one.
Really considering building an ICF home, I need more content on the benefits of ICF in predominantly hot and humid climates. I live in Ghana, West Africa and will like to know the benefits of ICF for keeping the home cool all year round with little reliance on the AC. A large portion of energy is used to primarily cool the home, in the afternoon the temps can get as high as 34 degrees Celsius or 93.2 degrees F and stay around 28 degrees C or 82.4 degrees F in the evenings.
You could contact the manufacturers directly. They probably have that info. I’ve heard to benefits of using ICF is greater in hot climates. It hardly takes any AC to keep them cool. It takes a lot of sun to transfer through a concrete wall.
I can answer your question, having built several ICF homes in Canada/USA and now living in West Africa, thermal mass ( from the concrete) is your best friend, it’ll work the same way as in cold climates BUT you have to mitigate solar heat gain on any exposed interior concrete walls, like with traditional blocks used here. What you’ll notice with ICFs is no /very small fluctuations in the interior temps over a 24hr timeframe, stays cool all day and the a/c barely used ICF is definitely a better option to what is used locally in W. Africa, I’ll be promoting it here as a better choice to save on cooling cost.
ICF has its place, but where you are in Alberta, the winter temperature average is around 0 C. You will not save additional energy by using ICF since ICF is not going to generate heat. However, Spring and Fall will be very beneficial with ICF by smoothing out night and day temperature swing.
I totally agree. You have a week or two cold snap and you house still needs to pump out the heat to keep the cold out. I also heard that a ICF house can actually feel hot in the summer months because our days are so much long then the nights so the walls can radiate the heat they collect during the day fast enough through the nights.
Kody, you have done a great job covering ICF walls, but what about sealing the roof? I have only seen a few videos on it and none are very good or even a very good idea!! Some are on the right track, but have a pile of waste. Maybe we are stuck with that, but the fact is, unless we figure a better way to tie the sides with the roof, we are still spending a crazy amount of money building a new home. I live in the Tampa Bay area in Florida. We have to deal with temperature and rain and severe winds all too often. Hurricanes devour homes here almost every year in one area or another. So we love the ICF's for the solid walls, but what about the roof and tying into the roof?? We need the walls to continue on up to the peek OR a flat roof that can shed many barrels of water quickly. Preferably that can also deal well with Solar Panels. I know that really isn't a big need for you in Canada, but your TUBERS are all over the WORLD and you my friend, have earned the trust of thousands. We ALL want our new homes to be UP TO KODE.....
Oh wow! What an amazing compliment! Thank you. Well I guess I better solve the roof issue or at least get some good content out there for it. One could do a suspended slab as a low slope roof. Fortruss is a great system that has the insulation incorporated into the form work. I don’t know how steep one coils go with it. Not a lot. Sloped ICF roofs have been done but I’ve heard the issue is keeping the foam from delaminating from the concrete. I’ll put more serious thought into this a s question some smarter people than myself! Thank you so much!
@@uptokode Why don't you have a look at the building method here in the "Bermuda Islands..!!!". 😉 We are 400+ year veterans with building concrete homes with pitch roof designs surviving extreme weather such as Hurricanes etc..!!! 👍💯😎 ICF Homes are so very similar to the Bermuda House design which utilizes a very heavy stone slate roof with a stepped feature within the design for safety and water catchment..!!! 🤔💯😉
I build ICF roofs with the ICF of all shapes and sizes. it is very doable and does complete the envelope. When completed no storm known to man can touch it. When done with the right reinforcement materials can last over 1000 years as Rome has. Cosmetic damage may happen but that is about it unless you run into a meteor or a 9.5 rector scale earthquake but I know I can deal with the earth quake as well.
Question.. you cant have a cold joint with poured wall below ground level for potential water leak..how do you mitigate air leak at a cold joint from basement wall to first floor .. then 1st floor to second floor.. finally (maybe) top of 2nd to gable... IS there a risk for air leakage at these cold joints?? yes insulation is important.. but passive ..air leakage is king. again..another great video ...
Did the engineering firm do a test with just the concrete, or full masonry wall, and the heat transfer? Like for in a warm climate, like Texas. Would the room matter more than insulation on the walls?
I was wondering if you could say without to much explanation why you choose Nudura over logix because I see in earlier videos you used logix. I’m actually trying to figure out what blocks I want to use currently. 20 year carpenter/ tradesman lots of experience with whalers concrete, walls, flatwork and building. I’m a general contractor but have never used icf. Building my own house and would like to use icf for basement and first floor walls ranch house. Appreciate any help.
Feel free to email if you want in the future. Check the description. I like Nudura because...reversible, ties lock together when stacking rows (no need to tie vertically), larger nubs (my bad terminology), and they come collapsed which saves a ton of space on site.
Oh wow! Can you email me photos as you progress? I will add you to my fan featured videos I am planning to roll out twice a year or so. kody@uptokode.com
@@uptokode I can definitely do that. We are in Ontario. In a small town north of Belleville. Initially intended on building a 2x6 house with I joist outriggers and dense pack cellulose. With lumber prices where they are and the extra labour/air sealing details we've decided to make the switch to xr35. Will also be doing a suspended structural slab floor for the extra thermal mass.
ICF is the only true monolithic wall assembly. No joints or connections after the concrete is poured. Stronger than the above mentioned and more air tight. I could go on and on and on.
I don’t actually know if SIP is more. I think it’s very similar but in the end it’s still a series of panels (NOT monolithic like ICF) and there’s no thermal mass. ICF is more air tight as well.
I think Inland (now Heidelberg materials) has some carbon solutions for concrete. I haven’t looked into it. Or check the other big names like Burnco, etc
Hello there Kody, Thanks for the Video. I just have a couple of questions & a comment and I love to see some feedback from you and perhaps some viewers , first off, what are your thoughts the Zip sheathing building system, as it addresses the thermal bridging issue ? Secondly, how difficult/complicated do you think it would be to convert drawing (building plan) from a stick frame utilizing the Zip system to an ICF exterior wall system? (foundation walls are already planned for ICF) The reason I ask is because I changed my mind on the building type because of the thermal mass issue. I'll explain, I was initially planning on building a log home (lots of thermal mass there) at my lot in Northern Ont. - same latitude as Thunder Bay, however the building will not be occupied for a 16 days at a time and in the interest not wasting energy the temperature would be kept down for that time, now upon returning all that thermal mass would have to be brought back up to temperature as well as the living space. Therefore I switched to looking at the Zip wall sheathing system. Thanks in advance
Zip system has many thermal breaks to deal with and if not do properly is no different then any other wood build. Cost to build right is higher. Best Zip house I have seen was passive house spec but took 3 to 4 more months longer to achieve over the ICF build time and Zip took a larger HVAC unit means more money and waste. ICF can still have your log cabin siding to give you the look but have all the benefits behind it.
Hey Kode! How is icf comparing price wise to 2x6 framing right now? With these super high wood prices we have to be getting so close to flipping sides right?
LOL ICF is good anywhere. From Antarctica to the north pole, from small structures to massive high rises. Just use real non-rusting rebar and stone fiber re-enforcement's which I have both which make concrete so it doesn't spauld or break up. Also if you double anything it is better than a single! But wood will never have the mass, strength or durability of stone.
I am looking at doing a netzero ready carriage home (in bc) and am overwhelmed with choices. With the prices of framing lumber how does icf compare cost wise?
I honestly can’t see u saving a dime by building with lumber. And you won’t have nearly the benefits. ICF is easier, stronger, quieter and substantially more air tight. Much easier to achieve net zero with ICF than anything else. There’s NOTHING you can do to a wood wall to make it compatible to an ICF wall. Any ICF is done in 1 step. No extra materials or labour required.
Nice post, but using high thermal mass materials such as ceramics (ie brick, concrete, block, rock or soil ) for passive buildings. Far pre-dates ICF construction. The issue is not with the use ICF, as the construction method or not? But how best to build a true Passive Home using it. Which takes far more expertise than building a conventional ICF. Using 1 side ICFs instead, is just the start. Builder/architect needs to know far more. For example, how to use an interior (non ICF ) concrete supporting wall as heat storage medium. By having it get heated by the southern sunlight in the winter. But also not get heated in the summer, by using long overhanging eave and the steeper angle of the sunshine in the summer is just one example. And none of it tends to be easy to do or duplicate on different sites... Which is why Passive Solar is not used as much now with lower fuel costs. FWIW it would also be great to see 1 sided ICF, that used rough cut boards or molds instead, that created more refined surface. For example by adding thin rough cut boards (or molds of stone or brick) to the plywood, with a release agent. If your interested, I have few other ideas on how to modify the process, so they still fit together and have the "seam" be less noticeable. (BTW decorative forms are already used to construct 2 sided non ICF, concrete walls. so it not a new idea) So good luck building a Passive Solar home someday. And/or adding a more finished look to the expose concrete surfaces.. I hope to see the posts of how you do it... Sorry for ranting on, did not expect it to be this long....
Hi Kody, I live in the Ouachita National Forest, Arkansas. We get about 60" of rain per year. I really want to build a small home customized for my disabilities. The people who I've spoken to have warned me that there is too much rain/moisture/humidity for ICF. What do you think?
I’m not an expert but I can’t see there being any issues. The concrete will never rot and neither will the foam. Make sure to use house wrap or a liquid applied membrane beneath your exterior and you have it made! Take care of that drainage plain below the exterior and there is the key. Wonder if I’m missing anything?
How much $$$ does it cost to build a 4000 sq ft house with 10 ft ceilings?? You keep saying ICF only costs 10% more but I'm not getting that from builders in Dallas.
Make your cameraman stand still (or buy a cheap tripod) and script your video out. There's a lot of good info here that is very hard to watch or listen to.
You will never get a stick frame to perform like a (ICF) thermal mass house. It physically impossible. The air tightness is also a non comparison, when properly installed.
Absolutely agree. One of the great ICF contractors around my area (engineered Fortruss btw) says this when asked to compare ICF to wood frame. “I can’t build ICF sh@!ty enough to compare to a wood frame”. He’s got a point.
It’s all density no way timber can compete! My only ding on icf (which I’ll be building with) is the environmental impact but these houses can last a tremendous amount of time so I think like stone building in Rome ice has the chance to work off some of that impact on the long run
Honestly.., I really don't understand the love affair with wood frame construction when other more competent and efficient building technologies such as ICF exist..??? 🤔..,🥴🤷🏽♂️ ICF has consistently proven itself a superior construction method in every pre/post testing system thrown at it..!!! 👍💯🤨 What gives with the building contractors of America..??? 🤔..,😳🤦🏾♂️
Oh man! Canada too. Everyone is stuck with old thinking. It honestly boggles my mind! Seemingly “high end” buildings in our area still building a garbage envelope. Drives me mental.
I agree. A lot of times the ICF roof would push the budget beyond the threshold. Now a days with the rise in material costs, it’s hard to keep new builds affordable. Now if someone wants the ultimate structure then yes, ICF roof.
OK it took 2 hours for the heat to go to the cold in a R25 wall of a 2x6 construction the the real "R" value is what R9 to 15? What is the "real world" R value of a 6" ICF wall? The R value has to be way up there for the mass did not allow the heat to go to the cold for 2 days because of the thermal mass, so what is that R value equivalent? "R50 maybe" We need the "R" value to be re-done to reflect real world conditions.
Thanks again Cliff. I’m going through comments and asking for some assistance. If you found this video valuable (or others) would you mind helping me by sharing a link with friends or on social media? Once you do follow the instructions below. Reply to this comment “DONE” then I’ll add you to a list to draw for some free Up To Kode swag. Thank you in advance!
In general, the passive house community stays away from ICFs because of a goal of minimizing embodied CO2 during construction, of which concrete is a pretty big offender, not because they are trying to build something more complicated. That's not to say ICFs are a poor way of building, but that's why passive houses tend to avoid them.
Concrete is all natural just as wood. machines used is greater in wood construction causing more C02. If so many trees was not used in construction the trees convert C02 to oxygen part of the cycle of life call photosynthesis needed for trees and all life to live. Don't go down that rabbit hole. There is no off gassing of the ICF either.
@@cliff7634 Except Cement isn't a natural material at all, it's calcium carbonate and other minerals fired in a furnace, which uses an enormous amount of energy. The trees consume carbon as part of their lifecycle (the carbon is then embodied in the tree), and when cut down this leaves room for new trees to grow and consume more carbon. Sustainably harvested forests are carbon negative, and cutting them down every few decades helps improve carbon capture as younger trees absorb carbon faster than older trees.
It's a fantastic insulating material and is carbon negative, it probably has more to do with it being a type of cannabis than any technical or economic reason.
Gat a different camera person. I actually had to stop watching and just listen to you talk because I was getting motion sick from all the bouncing of the view
good information. But you have the idea incorrect. HEAT moves to cold . Cold does not move to heat. Am guessing you have zero clue how a heatpump operates.
Just a little bit of constructive criticism. You should have a teleprompter with preplanned script or just plan what you’re going to say. It’s like pulling teeth hearing you struggle trying to explain ICF benefits. You could have made this video in half the time.
Hello there Kody I have been involved in energy efficient homes for about 35 years and would love to share a few some ideas with you on more efficient home design ........send me your contact information if you would be interested...thanks, Maurice
Kody: Of all the explanations I have heard on Thermal Mass - this one (describing the concrete mass as a "capacitor" and the insulation as a "resistor") is one of the best I've seen. Beautifully and clearly explained...
Ok wow! Thank you. I can’t take credit for the analogy...that was Kocsis engineering.
good points. What also caught my eye was the garage mock-up behind you.
Ah yes! That’s a Fortruss floor system, aka suspended slab . I know it’s an old comment but happy you noticed!!
I sure wish you lived a few hundred miles further south. I am in Missoula MT and I am having a difficult time finding a builder with IFC experience and the forethought to build as you do. I sure appreciate your videos as I have watched hours of them. Keep up the quality work and I might just feel confident enough to build it myself someday.
Have you tried calling the manufacturers? They usually have a list of cerified contractors they can provide
Given another year I might have enough content that you could do it yourself. Definitely stay in touch.
This is very true. I’ve heard of www.ICFbase.com but have never looked at it personally
Great video and explanation of the pro's of an ICF over stick frame. I'm thinking of building a Modern ICF home, looking for a passive home design and possibly net zero here in Nova Scotia. Kody here's your chance to design, build and video a project from scratch. You can test and prove all these facts of ICF. Thanks for the video's
If you want to do some video consults I would be happy to be part of it. I know the concepts and I have tons of ideas.
The wobbly camera was distracting from the excellent content. Was the camera gimbal broken?
No it wasn’t. Perhaps moving around too much.
Sidenote altogether nice to see the nicely painted honeybee boxes against the wall :-)
I knew somebody would notice. Good catch
I've lived in a ICF home for 21 years now. Thermal mass does have impact. We've learned to live with it.
Many years ago we took a trip during xmas time. Heat was set to 60F. Took two days of running the heat pump to get back to 70F. Talked to a HVAC engineer and he told me if you build a ICF home you should use a software program designed for commercial buildings to determine sizing. Commercial software takes into account thermal mass. That was back about 18 years ago. One thing I do is not let the temp get more than about 4 degrees from my desired setting. In summer I like about 75F so the warmest I let it get to is 79 or 80 when I go to work. Winter time I never let the house get below 68F. Otherwise it takes the 3 ton HP hours/a day to get the temp back to where I want it. During the shoulder seasons of Fall and Spring you have to watch out when the sun shines strongly. A good sunny day can heat the house to 73 or 74. Two degrees warmer than we like. Sometimes more. This season we had some very sunny days. Outside temps only got into the 50's but by bedtime the house was still 75ish.
So is the ICF a nuisance or do you like it?
@@uptokode I like ICF. ICF is different than a typical wood house. You learn how to get the best from it. You need to be aware of how the home reacts when it comes to HVAC. love the thick walls. Love the lack of sound. I've slept through many storms. In strong winds...no creaking of the walls. No worry of rotting wood. It is KISS compared to some passive house wall designs.
So my home is about 3600 square feet of condition space. Ranch with a walkout to the south.
6 inch ICF on main floor
8 inch ICF for the basement
2.5 inch foam, both sides.
Eco-Block which I believe is no longer around.
Pellla triple glass windows.
3 ton closed loop geothermal heat pump forced air. ERV.
Plenty of windows. A lot facing south. Two foot roof overhang.
Heat load calculations said the house needed 42,000 BTU for heat and 20,000 BTU's worth of cooling. Heat load calc's done by a local electric utility. Part of a program to encourage more heat pumps they did the cals.
The HVAC fan is ran 24x7.
In winter I never want the temps to get below 68. Otherwise it takes forever for the home to heat up to 72. If it is really sunny that can easily add two degrees or more to the south side rooms. My current system is undersized for the coldest months. The polar vortex had us running a gas fireplace often.
In summer or high humidity times the HVAC system doesn't do a good job in bringing down the moisture as it is oversized for what is needed so it short cycles. Sometimes I run a dehumidifier in the basement. If not home I let the house get to 78ish and then kick on the AC to take it down to 72 for sleeping. That can take hours but it does a decent job in removing moisture. I know some newer HVAC units and controls can deal with this issue.
If I were to build again, which I'm thinking about doing...I'd do the following:
Nudra with the extra foam to the outside. 6" worth of concrete.
Air to water Heatpump for heating and hot water. Something like a Nordic unit out of NB. www.nordicghp.com/product/nordic-products/air-source-heat-pump/air-to-water/
Zender as an ERV.
Radiant heat everywhere. Basement slab, garage slab, maybe thin slab on suspended wood floors or wall radiators. Reason: comfort and low noise. I've been in radiant heated homes. It is hands down the most comfort. I hate the noise of the forced air system. Especially when the house is so quiet you can hear almost everything.
Cooling: water to air fan coil or mini split(s) for cooling. but more likely the mini splits. Heads in the bedrooms and one in the living room. Mini splits are inexpensive and can provide stand alone de-humidification as well as heat in shoulder seasons.
@@BobLobsiger Your ICF house walls are not the problem it is your windows and doors and your wood roof. Best windows triple pane today are at best an around R-value of 10. Most doors are no better. So to change the outcome you need to limit the windows and door openings and sizing. Between windows and doors in a wood build house is at least 50% of heating or cooling problems. it will be no different in an ICF house. Also what way your house faces along with the number of windows. So south and west windows and doors can be a problem to take a good look at in North America.
I appreciate the information!
Get a smart thermostat with a schedule, and run the heat pump at times of maximum coefficient of power - run it all day during winter in heat mode, and run it at night in summer in cooling mode.
In other houses you would have to do the opposite (or run it 24/7) and suffer from lower CoP on the heat pump.
Turn the thermal mass to your advantage.
Good info : Look at QuadLock ICFs all those insulation “R” value upgrades are part of the system and it only has four components to the wall (QuadLock) also all angles and curves are made in the field . A well engineered system and great support system!
I’ve heard great things about QuadLock. I just need more houses to build so I can learn more.
I recommend that anyone interest in QuadLock,take the time and take the training course , as it will give you a better feel for the product.
@@chasjones5756 I've watched tons of videos on ICF (all brands) & I was leaning towards Nudura, do you have experience with both ? If so how would you compare the two ? Any pros & cons to consider ? Thanks
@@littlewingpilot Fire ratings, webbing or studs, holding power for finishing, size of block and time to build, R values, versatility in construction, fully engineered if needed for your area and laws are just a few for you to consider. I feel QuadLock fall behind in some to most of these areas. But you need to make up your own mind on this one.
Ndura, quad and build block are arguably the best three systems to consider, also superblock
Really considering building an ICF home, I need more content on the benefits of ICF in predominantly hot and humid climates. I live in Ghana, West Africa and will like to know the benefits of ICF for keeping the home cool all year round with little reliance on the AC. A large portion of energy is used to primarily cool the home, in the afternoon the temps can get as high as 34 degrees Celsius or 93.2 degrees F and stay around 28 degrees C or 82.4 degrees F in the evenings.
You could contact the manufacturers directly. They probably have that info. I’ve heard to benefits of using ICF is greater in hot climates. It hardly takes any AC to keep them cool. It takes a lot of sun to transfer through a concrete wall.
I can answer your question, having built several ICF homes in Canada/USA and now living in West Africa, thermal mass ( from the concrete) is your best friend, it’ll work the same way as in cold climates BUT you have to mitigate solar heat gain on any exposed interior concrete walls, like with traditional blocks used here. What you’ll notice with ICFs is no /very small fluctuations in the interior temps over a 24hr timeframe, stays cool all day and the a/c barely used
ICF is definitely a better option to what is used locally in W. Africa, I’ll be promoting it here as a better choice to save on cooling cost.
With wood prices and availability in question now and for the future, maybe it’s time to take a look at ICF,s
It’s always time to look at ICF. No other system offers as many benefits while keeping construction simple and being similar in cost.
ICF has its place, but where you are in Alberta, the winter temperature average is around 0 C. You will not save additional energy by using ICF since ICF is not going to generate heat. However, Spring and Fall will be very beneficial with ICF by smoothing out night and day temperature swing.
I totally agree. You have a week or two cold snap and you house still needs to pump out the heat to keep the cold out. I also heard that a ICF house can actually feel hot in the summer months because our days are so much long then the nights so the walls can radiate the heat they collect during the day fast enough through the nights.
I can see that.
I live in central Florida. What termite protections would you use?
Quad-lock and Quad-Deck, with Nudura s Prebuck would be Awesome 👍👍
Kody, you have done a great job covering ICF walls, but what about sealing the roof? I have only seen a few videos on it and none are very good or even a very good idea!! Some are on the right track, but have a pile of waste. Maybe we are stuck with that, but the fact is, unless we figure a better way to tie the sides with the roof, we are still spending a crazy amount of money building a new home. I live in the Tampa Bay area in Florida. We have to deal with temperature and rain and severe winds all too often. Hurricanes devour homes here almost every year in one area or another. So we love the ICF's for the solid walls, but what about the roof and tying into the roof?? We need the walls to continue on up to the peek OR a flat roof that can shed many barrels of water quickly. Preferably that can also deal well with Solar Panels. I know that really isn't a big need for you in Canada, but your TUBERS are all over the WORLD and you my friend, have earned the trust of thousands. We ALL want our new homes to be UP TO KODE.....
Oh wow! What an amazing compliment! Thank you. Well I guess I better solve the roof issue or at least get some good content out there for it.
One could do a suspended slab as a low slope roof. Fortruss is a great system that has the insulation incorporated into the form work. I don’t know how steep one coils go with it. Not a lot.
Sloped ICF roofs have been done but I’ve heard the issue is keeping the foam from delaminating from the concrete.
I’ll put more serious thought into this a s question some smarter people than myself!
Thank you so much!
You can do an icf roof as well. In tornado alley an icf roof would be the way to go for sure, but it makes sense in any region!
@@uptokode Why don't you have a look at the building method here in the "Bermuda Islands..!!!". 😉 We are 400+ year veterans with building concrete homes with pitch roof designs surviving extreme weather such as Hurricanes etc..!!! 👍💯😎 ICF Homes are so very similar to the Bermuda House design which utilizes a very heavy stone slate roof with a stepped feature within the design for safety and water catchment..!!! 🤔💯😉
I build ICF roofs with the ICF of all shapes and sizes. it is very doable and does complete the envelope. When completed no storm known to man can touch it. When done with the right reinforcement materials can last over 1000 years as Rome has. Cosmetic damage may happen but that is about it unless you run into a meteor or a 9.5 rector scale earthquake but I know I can deal with the earth quake as well.
@@uptokode Thanks Kody. I don't know why I just got this response on July 11th. YT must be slipping..
Question.. you cant have a cold joint with poured wall below ground level for potential water leak..how do you mitigate air leak at a cold joint from basement wall to first floor .. then 1st floor to second floor.. finally (maybe) top of 2nd to gable... IS there a risk for air leakage at these cold joints?? yes insulation is important.. but passive ..air leakage is king. again..another great video ...
No your only air leaks possible are from penetrations through the walls to exterior, roof if non ICF, doors and windows.
Did the engineering firm do a test with just the concrete, or full masonry wall, and the heat transfer? Like for in a warm climate, like Texas. Would the room matter more than insulation on the walls?
One would have to read the research papers to determine the specifics.
Excellent
Awesome as always
super job on the vids !
I was wondering if you could say without to much explanation why you choose Nudura over logix because I see in earlier videos you used logix. I’m actually trying to figure out what blocks I want to use currently. 20 year carpenter/ tradesman lots of experience with whalers concrete, walls, flatwork and building. I’m a general contractor but have never used icf. Building my own house and would like to use icf for basement and first floor walls ranch house. Appreciate any help.
Feel free to email if you want in the future. Check the description.
I like Nudura because...reversible, ties lock together when stacking rows (no need to tie vertically), larger nubs (my bad terminology), and they come collapsed which saves a ton of space on site.
Nudura now has the xr35 forms that are 8 inches of total foam (4 either side) with the studs still near the surface.
We are using the XR35 for a commercial building in a few weeks! Can’t wait.
@@uptokode were building a nearly passive house in Canada this summer and plan on using them as well.
Oh wow! Can you email me photos as you progress? I will add you to my fan featured videos I am planning to roll out twice a year or so.
kody@uptokode.com
What province or city are you in?
@@uptokode I can definitely do that. We are in Ontario. In a small town north of Belleville. Initially intended on building a 2x6 house with I joist outriggers and dense pack cellulose. With lumber prices where they are and the extra labour/air sealing details we've decided to make the switch to xr35. Will also be doing a suspended structural slab floor for the extra thermal mass.
Kids any advice for icf in a termite neighborhood?
How does ICF compare to SCIPS or insulated concrete paneling?
ICF is the only true monolithic wall assembly. No joints or connections after the concrete is poured. Stronger than the above mentioned and more air tight. I could go on and on and on.
Did you use SIP? What do you think about its insulation? I think SIP will cost more. Is that correct?
I don’t actually know if SIP is more. I think it’s very similar but in the end it’s still a series of panels (NOT monolithic like ICF) and there’s no thermal mass.
ICF is more air tight as well.
Where can you get the more carbon neutral geopolymer cconcrete
I think Inland (now Heidelberg materials) has some carbon solutions for concrete. I haven’t looked into it. Or check the other big names like Burnco, etc
Is there an ICF distributor on Long Island, New York
Hello there Kody, Thanks for the Video. I just have a couple of questions & a comment and I love to see some feedback from you and perhaps some viewers , first off, what are your thoughts the Zip sheathing building system, as it addresses the thermal bridging issue ? Secondly, how difficult/complicated do you think it would be to convert drawing (building plan) from a stick frame utilizing the Zip system to an ICF exterior wall system? (foundation walls are already planned for ICF)
The reason I ask is because I changed my mind on the building type because of the thermal mass issue. I'll explain, I was initially planning on building a log home (lots of thermal mass there) at my lot in Northern Ont. - same latitude as Thunder Bay, however the building will not be occupied for a 16 days at a time and in the interest not wasting energy the temperature would be kept down for that time, now upon returning all that thermal mass would have to be brought back up to temperature as well as the living space. Therefore I switched to looking at the Zip wall sheathing system.
Thanks in advance
Zip system has many thermal breaks to deal with and if not do properly is no different then any other wood build. Cost to build right is higher. Best Zip house I have seen was passive house spec but took 3 to 4 more months longer to achieve over the ICF build time and Zip took a larger HVAC unit means more money and waste. ICF can still have your log cabin siding to give you the look but have all the benefits behind it.
Hey Kode! How is icf comparing price wise to 2x6 framing right now? With these super high wood prices we have to be getting so close to flipping sides right?
I haven’t had time to compare but it has to be very close.
Def a good option in Canada especially! (And double Canadian stud wall system beats 2x6 any day.) Regards from USA.
Thanks!
LOL ICF is good anywhere. From Antarctica to the north pole, from small structures to massive high rises. Just use real non-rusting rebar and stone fiber re-enforcement's which I have both which make concrete so it doesn't spauld or break up. Also if you double anything it is better than a single! But wood will never have the mass, strength or durability of stone.
Fair enough, I think it is wide to cover the environmental impacts of producing cement/concrete and the Foam being a petrochemical byproduct??
I am looking at doing a netzero ready carriage home (in bc) and am overwhelmed with choices. With the prices of framing lumber how does icf compare cost wise?
I honestly can’t see u saving a dime by building with lumber. And you won’t have nearly the benefits.
ICF is easier, stronger, quieter and substantially more air tight. Much easier to achieve net zero with ICF than anything else.
There’s NOTHING you can do to a wood wall to make it compatible to an ICF wall. Any ICF is done in 1 step. No extra materials or labour required.
@@uptokode Feel like building a project in bc? Lol
Maybe. Open to the idea but no one has pursued much further than this. What area in BC?
Harder to cool the thermal mass from the inside?
your question for a total full answer is long. But the short answer is not at all if you understand the construction.
awesome!
Nice post, but using high thermal mass materials such as ceramics (ie brick, concrete, block, rock or soil ) for passive buildings. Far pre-dates ICF construction.
The issue is not with the use ICF, as the construction method or not? But how best to build a true Passive Home using it. Which takes far more expertise than building a conventional ICF. Using 1 side ICFs instead, is just the start.
Builder/architect needs to know far more. For example, how to use an interior (non ICF ) concrete supporting wall as heat storage medium. By having it get heated by the southern sunlight in the winter. But also not get heated in the summer, by using long overhanging eave and the steeper angle of the sunshine in the summer is just one example. And none of it tends to be easy to do or duplicate on different sites... Which is why Passive Solar is not used as much now with lower fuel costs.
FWIW it would also be great to see 1 sided ICF, that used rough cut boards or molds instead, that created more refined surface. For example by adding thin rough cut boards (or molds of stone or brick) to the plywood, with a release agent. If your interested, I have few other ideas on how to modify the process, so they still fit together and have the "seam" be less noticeable. (BTW decorative forms are already used to construct 2 sided non ICF, concrete walls. so it not a new idea)
So good luck building a Passive Solar home someday. And/or adding a more finished look to the expose concrete surfaces.. I hope to see the posts of how you do it...
Sorry for ranting on, did not expect it to be this long....
Thanks for your input! I have also thought about rough cut boards for an exposed concrete wall. One day...
Hi Kody, I live in the Ouachita National Forest, Arkansas. We get about 60" of rain per year. I really want to build a small home customized for my disabilities. The people who I've spoken to have warned me that there is too much rain/moisture/humidity for ICF. What do you think?
I’m not an expert but I can’t see there being any issues. The concrete will never rot and neither will the foam. Make sure to use house wrap or a liquid applied membrane beneath your exterior and you have it made! Take care of that drainage plain below the exterior and there is the key.
Wonder if I’m missing anything?
@@uptokode Thank you!
How much $$$ does it cost to build a 4000 sq ft house with 10 ft ceilings?? You keep saying ICF only costs 10% more but I'm not getting that from builders in Dallas.
I’m not sure what prices are in southern US. For a 4000 sq ft home the ICF portion is very small.
What are people in Dallas telling you?
wouldnt that test assume the mass is at the 70degrees
I am definitely going to be building my next house out of ICF! Wanna come give me a hand Kody? I can offer all the pizza and beer you can handle!
Haha. Sounds great! Where you at?
Make your cameraman stand still (or buy a cheap tripod) and script your video out. There's a lot of good info here that is very hard to watch or listen to.
Got it!
does the styrofoam outgas cfc's or other VOCs into the house ?
No. EPS foam does not off-gas at all. It does not lose R-value over time either.
You will never get a stick frame to perform like a (ICF) thermal mass house. It physically impossible. The air tightness is also a non comparison, when properly installed.
Absolutely agree. One of the great ICF contractors around my area (engineered Fortruss btw) says this when asked to compare ICF to wood frame. “I can’t build ICF sh@!ty enough to compare to a wood frame”. He’s got a point.
It’s all density no way timber can compete! My only ding on icf (which I’ll be building with) is the environmental impact but these houses can last a tremendous amount of time so I think like stone building in Rome ice has the chance to work off some of that impact on the long run
Honestly.., I really don't understand the love affair with wood frame construction when other more competent and efficient building technologies such as ICF exist..??? 🤔..,🥴🤷🏽♂️ ICF has consistently proven itself a superior construction method in every pre/post testing system thrown at it..!!! 👍💯🤨 What gives with the building contractors of America..??? 🤔..,😳🤦🏾♂️
Oh man! Canada too. Everyone is stuck with old thinking. It honestly boggles my mind!
Seemingly “high end” buildings in our area still building a garbage envelope. Drives me mental.
If you use an ICF roof you have no issues. You then also have a house capable of withstanding an F5 tornado
I agree. A lot of times the ICF roof would push the budget beyond the threshold. Now a days with the rise in material costs, it’s hard to keep new builds affordable. Now if someone wants the ultimate structure then yes, ICF roof.
Good video, but please hold the camera still. Made it hard to watch your video.
Gotcha. Thanks.
OK it took 2 hours for the heat to go to the cold in a R25 wall of a 2x6 construction the the real "R" value is what R9 to 15?
What is the "real world" R value of a 6" ICF wall? The R value has to be way up there for the mass did not allow the heat to go to the cold for 2 days because of the thermal mass, so what is that R value equivalent? "R50 maybe" We need the "R" value to be re-done to reflect real world conditions.
That’s what I’m trying to say as well.
Thanks again Cliff. I’m going through comments and asking for some assistance. If you found this video valuable (or others) would you mind helping me by sharing a link with friends or on social media? Once you do follow the instructions below.
Reply to this comment “DONE” then I’ll add you to a list to draw for some free Up To Kode swag. Thank you in advance!
@@uptokode Done
In general, the passive house community stays away from ICFs because of a goal of minimizing embodied CO2 during construction, of which concrete is a pretty big offender, not because they are trying to build something more complicated. That's not to say ICFs are a poor way of building, but that's why passive houses tend to avoid them.
I get that. I just don’t understand how cutting trees down is good for the environment even though they are carbon negative.
Concrete is all natural just as wood. machines used is greater in wood construction causing more C02. If so many trees was not used in construction the trees convert C02 to oxygen part of the cycle of life call photosynthesis needed for trees and all life to live. Don't go down that rabbit hole. There is no off gassing of the ICF either.
@@cliff7634 Except Cement isn't a natural material at all, it's calcium carbonate and other minerals fired in a furnace, which uses an enormous amount of energy.
The trees consume carbon as part of their lifecycle (the carbon is then embodied in the tree), and when cut down this leaves room for new trees to grow and consume more carbon. Sustainably harvested forests are carbon negative, and cutting them down every few decades helps improve carbon capture as younger trees absorb carbon faster than older trees.
Slightly off topic but maybe not. I want to know why hemp isn’t utilized more.
It's a fantastic insulating material and is carbon negative, it probably has more to do with it being a type of cannabis than any technical or economic reason.
Gat a different camera person.
I actually had to stop watching and just listen to you talk because I was getting motion sick from all the bouncing of the view
Fair enough! I will change how we film.
@@uptokode ...Tripod for this video would have worked fine.
Noted and thank you.
Cold doesn't transfer, heat does.
good information. But you have the idea incorrect. HEAT moves to cold . Cold does not move to heat. Am guessing you have zero clue how a heatpump operates.
The camera shake made this unwatchable
My apologies. Consider it fixed for the future
Just a little bit of constructive criticism. You should have a teleprompter with preplanned script or just plan what you’re going to say. It’s like pulling teeth hearing you struggle trying to explain ICF benefits. You could have made this video in half the time.
Hello there Kody I have been involved in energy efficient homes for about 35 years and would love to share a few some ideas with you on more efficient home design ........send me your contact information if you would be interested...thanks, Maurice
I know we touched base but don’t let me forget to get together in the future