Is Vanity Sizing a Myth? Sewing Size Charts Explained
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- Why sizing charts are so different between brands and countries and possible solutions for fixing this issue.
Plus tips on how to read and understand a size chart to make sure you pick the right size.
I also address the somewhat controversial topic of vanity sizing and make a case why it's largely a myth.
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Thank you! Most important to me are finished garment measurements in sewing patterns. I think we will always have non-standard sizing, because style and body type complicate the issue.
Rob yN, I go farther than that. I measure the pattern pieces. It’s the only thing I trust.
I agree with you, things like ease and even fabric choices make only relying only on body measurements a very blunt instrument when it comes to gauging fit
What a great video about such a big and sometimes confusing topic. I am mid through designing my own sewing patterns and as a result, I have also dived into the topic of sizing. It is true that you cannot serve everyone so in the end, I have decided to serve the pear-shape as that is my own body shape and also an issue I deal with. Often pants are too small on the hips for me but going up a size means it will be too big. Luckily with sewing yourself you can adjust and I think it's important as a pattern company to communicate what kind of body shape you serve and how to alter your pattern for the perfect fit.
Happy to read this! The stagnation/demise of Sewaholic means there is a hungry market out there for you. Good luck!
I like that designers can have their own sizing based on the body they draft for. I think this allows designers more freedom to focus on creating. However, detailed sizing information is needed. Specially with buying online. Whenever I hear a YTer say "I'm a true size 20." or "l'm a true size 10." All I can think is that doesn't exist. The size on a tag is reference point. There is no "true size" only body measurements. Great video. Thank you for information.
Absolutely loved this. So useful and informative, but of course, as everything you do is fantastic. I watch dozens of videos weekly and I just have to say you are the very best!! Thank you again!
You've put a lot of thought and research into this! Much appreciated, and yes it can be so confusing. I like becoming aware that certain pattern companies draft for specific body types. Not only will it make it easier to find patterns that fit better out of the envelope, but also to choose companies that design more flattering garments for my body type (and avoid those that don't). I wonder how you can find out the shape the muse is for different companies? How did you discover that about Colette and Sewaholic, for instance? I suppose I could analyze the measurements on their size charts but you can't really know the cup size if you don't have the high bust number as well.
Also, I think the larger jump between sizes in plus sizes is because they build in more ease. Standard international sizing based on actual measurements is so logical and would be amazing!
I think many brands could do a much better job communicating this. When Colette came on the scene they did a big thing about it, hence why I knew this. But in later times they have been downplaying it, maybe they don't want to exclude customers? But as a small chested person I think it's awesome that brands cater to larger chests, since I'm aware of the fitting challenges and I don't feel that every brand should cater to my small b-cup
Sewaholic publicized this from the start. The creator of the brand was herself a Pear and wanted to cater to that particular shape.
Colette is more complicated, however, bc it later appeared (from more people sewing them) that they also drafted for a short torso, rounded back and flat butt. After a big scandal in 2015, they supposedly moved to a more standard/hourglass shape while keeping the C cup (I think). Generally, I feel a move towards more transparency, in Indie brands.
The size 8 samples that you compared are vanity sizing in patterns. They correspond to a size 14 in the big 4 patterns. I have learned to follow Nancy Zeimans way of picking a pattern size by going on my upper chest and shoulders. As a sewer I have the ability to then size up my pear shaped body knowing the top will always sit properly.
I wonder if catering to different body types really is vanity sizing? To me vanity sizing is when companies changes sizing just to play on people’s insecurities, not when they do adjustments to fit their target consumers. But the confusing bit is of course that everyone is using the same size label. As sewists we are equipped with so much more knowledge, and relying on resources such as Nancy and others has been amazing to help us understand this tricky subject
It helps to know your body measurements, but it is also helpful to know the finished garment measurements that you like for particular types of fabrics. Design ease varies so much between patterns that knowing your personal design ease comfort levels gives you something to compare to each pattern. Unfortunately with mass produced ready to wear you cannot always rely on the advertised size actually being the same for each garment. I have sometimes found that just trying on another garment of the same size will be the difference between fitting well and not fitting at all. If the garment maker took slightly wider seam allowances the garments can become impossible to try on.
You are so right, there are so many factors playing into the fit and the examples you are giving are very telling. Even different colours can affect this I’ve heard, so a jeans fabric dyed black can feel tighter than a bleached denim in the same fabric.
I'm so glad you made this video as it's something that definitely needs to be discussed.
A great topic and so well researched! I never pay much attention to the numbers or letters on any pattern I make. I always use my measurements and grade between sizes. As for RTW, I tend to know which styles and brands will fit me. I would love to see the labeling you showed on RTW.
Oh, and I love your blouse! What pattern did you use? The pattern matching of the fabric is impressive!
Great video. I’d love to see a standard sizing system. I’m not sure it would ever take in the US. Too many people are wedded to the ‘I can fit in a size 8!’ way of thinking.
Yes, the value we put into such an arbitrary number is crazy, but it also shows how much these things affect us.
I'd love them all to be the same and use measurements instead of "sizes"!
Yes agree I was teased for my size up or down. I found a very small range of 10s and 12s. I ended up quite gaunt and balance wasnt great. People read into them and people are seen as different than they really. I glad to know they are different. I wore the younger makes. I can't fit in the bottom in some ranges in most shops. Most need darts the lower half was a bit better. I pick up mine as people just worry.
Yes it needs updating worldwide universal in inches and cms .
Yes they need to make the inches vs cm easy to gauge and understand too
Absolutely and where the waist is in each make. It can be higher or lower than bellybutton.
Great video Johanna! I agree with you and Libby below… I prefer to purchase from pattern companies that fit me right away! I have a few of those independent pattern companies that do just that! I tend to purchase more patterns from them than others. Lately I’ve shied away from commercial pattern companies because I’m always having to adjust them and can’t seem to pick the right size for myself. It’s been an on-going issue.
Myra Lorraine Could you share what your body shape (and height!) is like and which pattern companies tend to fit you well? I would love to put together a resources for people to use. I don’t have a blog, but I’m thinking I could collaborate with others to have this info posted somewhere.
Billie V This is quite a project you’re taking on! I don’t mind sharing my information...I am 5’6”, a total “rectangle” and patterns that fit me are ItchtoStitch, Butterick, Jalie, Closet Case & Style Arc. Good luck to you, I believe some will enjoy using a resource like this!
Terrific video as usual with great insight...I agree, that a central system for pattern measurements would be a great help in choosing a size. We also must be aware that each designer and style comes with it's own amount of ease for drape & movement that can differ from pattern to pattern from the same company which we need to be aware of to suit our own taste & comfort level. I have also found, in using vintage patterns, that the era in which patterns were produced, will also affect the fit of a particular size. For example, a pattern from the '60's will have a much closer fit than a pattern from the 80's, when over sized was the style of the day, even if they were both marked with the same size. The idea of multi-sized patterns not only saved the pattern companies money, but has made adjusting a pattern for a multi-sized body very easy. I still will not tackle a project using a new pattern with out making a muslin first. I have learned over the hundreds of years that I've been sewing, it's absolutely worth the extra time...
You are so right Howard, our own measurements is just one piece of the fitting puzzle, ease, fabric etc all plays into it too. And interesting observation about the changes in ease in patterns, I’ve been thinking along the same lines and you confirmed it. Comfort has been such a big deal in fashion for the last decades, so if something is close fitting today it almost always have Spandex in it.
Thank you for this video, I certainly agree and would love a universal system such as the one you mentioned with the body measurements.
However, the trouble with sizes does not end there. Just as an example, a tall woman (say, 1.80) may have either long legs or a long torso. If she has long legs, a standard "knee-length" skirt which is about 58 cm long will be a mini-skirt for her, while for the woman with a long torso it will end at the knee as intended. However, the woman with a long torso will notice that any tops she wants to tuck into the skirt will be too short, so they slip out as she moves.
Same with the upper body. A certain bust circumference may either be caused by a broad torso (broad shoulders and a broad back) or by large breasts. But the cuts these two women need will be very different even if their measurements are the same.
Fortunately, sweing our own clothing allows us to adjust for our bodies and get well-fitting clothes even if our bodies do not fit into standard sizes. I always adjust for my long torso and do a FBA - if I buy a pattern based on the printed bust circumference, it will be too big everywhere except the bust.
In the mid 80s I studied fashion merchandising at the university level in the US. True vanity sizing was in existence in the US at least at that time. I also worked in bridal at that time. Women were horrified to order at sz 14 bridal gown when they wore a 10 in street clothes. We explained that these dresses are very fitted and most US women as used to wearing clothes with more ease that are more forgiving. Also bridal sz charts came about after WW2 and were not changed. To be honest, the average 20something American woman was smaller in the 80s than now.
Some ready to wear brands have measurements on the label. H&M is problematic for other reasons but they put measurements the garment was designed for in centimeters on the label, this is the third row on the actual label, there is hight and bust or waist measurement depending on the garment . For example EUR 36, US 6, CN 165/84 . This last number refers to hight and bust. I wish more main stream brands would do this, because ist is not that hard
Yes, I know that the Swedish standardisation institute has been lobbying hard to make companies adapt the change so it's good to see H&M taking it on. I also read that they got some backlash in the UK a few years ago due to inconsistent sizing so maybe it also made them more prone to be more transparent. This is system has actually been standard "requirement" in Sweden since the 70s I think but it's still few companies who have adapted it
I don‘t think so. I have a coat from 2011 with measurements on the label and the UK size problems came up in the last 2-3 years. Sizes are arbitrary anyway, „Medium“ means a lot of different things to different people. I think the problem was that customers had valid expectations regarding size and H&M chart did not reflect those, and was confusing. A big main stream brand can not aford to be confusing.
No matter what pattern you sew you always need to compare your own measurements to the measurements given on the pattern. Each maker also likes a different degree of tightness or looseness of a garment. Thank you for your research on this topic. No matter how standardized measurements become, people are not standardized!
I agree! I think being as clear as possible about what the sizing is based upon is super useful, but as you say we have so many variations that there will never be one size chart that fits all
Indeed! I hope more people realize we are all unique. Way too often I hear people blaming their body instead of the clothing that doesn't fit. I hope outside of the sewing world that more companies will offer alterations or made-to-measure again. It seems to come back slowly.
The reason they call it vanity sizing for the US is because over the years the clothing manufacturers have actually started labelling the same size clothing with smaller sizes. This was because they found that clothes with a smaller size sold better due to the psychological effect of suddenly fitting into a smaller size. Justine Leconte did a good video about this a while ago. 🙂
Ah, that makes sense! I've also read that we are more likely to make a purchase if we fit in a size smaller. But now this phrase is also being used to describe size adjustments due to our changing bodies and that's where vanity sizing becomes a bit of a misnomer
ruclips.net/video/Dh9aNEKrw2U/видео.html
Justine is good Johanna
'A size 00 is a 20 inch waist. There was demand from Asia for that sizing. When using an Amercian pattern, I sew a size 3 times larger than ready to wear. I wear a size 4 in jeans so if I make a pair, I sew a size 10.
I wonder what the story behind the US pattern size system is? I tried to research it but wasn't able to find a clear answer. I do wonder if some sewing newbies find it confusing, since it uses similar numbers but as you say is several sizes off
@@Thelaststitch The US pattern sizing was overhauled in 1969 or 1970 and the pattern sizing actually got one size larger. So if i were to sew a 1965 pattern, I would have to sew a size 12 and probably have to increase the waist by 2".
I think as long as they put body measurements, as well as the final garment measurements on their pattern there is not a problem. That gives the information of what they want the project to look like. Then it is up to the one making the item how much ease they like.
I live in the NL but as a foreigner of average height where I come from, I'm definitely short by Dutch standards, I either make my own or buy abroad :-). For shoes it's even worse, try finding adult shoes in sizes less than 39.....
Oh I can imagine! And I didn't think about shoe sizes, but that makes total sense. And that's harder for us to DIY!
I’m Dutch, and I have trouble finding both clothes that fit my bust (I typically fall into three different sizes for bust, waist and hips!) and I have trouble finding sewing patterns that fit my height! I’m 1.73m or 5’8” - which is average height for a woman here. I have relatively short legs, which means I don’t normally need to shorten trousers, but most will gape at the waist... I guess we all have our issues! 😂
❤would love universal sizing, certainly would make shopping online easier…I sew most of my clothing and make my own patterns so if anyone wants to know what size I’m wearing , I answer “my size”..😘
I would love for sizes to be standardized. We just got used to looking at measurements b which has been my experience of late. A couple of the pattern companies are also including ease on the envelopes. They are working on the system but notice it becoming standardized. It. Would be great. Just recently started watching your videos. I am really getting a lot from them. Thank you.
This is a great video! I’d love to see a follow-up (or a blog post) with more examples of what body shapes different companies design for. Also, I wonder if maybe the wonderful ladies of the Fold Line already have such an overview?? 🤔 If not, I’d be happy to help you gather info, Johanna! I’m too tall (1.73m) for most pattern companies that serve my hourglass shape... I’ve found a few patterns but haven’t tried them yet.
I would love to see a global, universal system for sizing. I've been thinking about this a great deal and how it could be implemented.
Thank you ! Well researched ....
I would very much prefer a sizing system that was fit/measurement focused.
When I was a teen nothing smaller than a medium fit. I am now middle aged and am wearing size small and extra small in the same style clothes. It is quite frustrating to think I know my size and then have to try on so many things to check fit.
Also, I don't like how nearly all clothes are designed for ... um, the more plump type person, even the smaller sizes have extra ease. I am by no mean slim however those baggy clothes make me look terribly frumpy at best.
I have recently begun to make my own clothes due to these frustrations. Thank you for all things sewing that you share.
Keep al the different sizingcharts...but put more forward for what bodytype its in mind. The ready to wear with body masurments is A good idea as well. 😎
Great video. I really enjoyed it.
Thank you 😊
Love watching your vlogs! Hi from Australia ❤️
I think it is very sensible for companies to have different fit models for their pattern sizing. I'd like to know what shapes most pattern companies design for. Thanks for mentioning the two you did; I didn't realize that. Anyone design more for the apple shape (rectangle)?
I agree! I think it’s a wonderful idea to be very clear about what body type a company is primarily serving. I know that cashmerette say that they serve the apple type, as in fuller in the upper body and less around the lower hip but I’m not sure if that’s the same as a rectangle, but hopefully there are more ones out there!
@@Thelaststitch Thank you.
I had some luck finding companies that serve my body shape (hourglass) by searching the wonderful pattern database at The Foldline and typing in “full bust.” I am not sure what search word you would need to put in, though... (sorry). But if you are looking for, say, a good jumpsuit pattern for your shape, you could select all the jumpsuit patterns there and compare the size charts to your body measurements. It’s quite labor intensive initially, of course. But since their database is as complete as they come, you will probably be able to find a few companies that draft for your specific body shape, which may save you time later!
In my case, I’m grateful that Christine Haynes is back, because her size chart is very close to my body shape. Also, Style ARC (in case other people with hourglass figures are reading this...).
Good luck!
@@billiev8705 Thank you so much. I will check out The Foldline, which I haven't done yet.
I always look at finished garment measurements. Although some patterns don't even have them
One of the reasons (not the only one) I started sewing is precisely because it's near impossible for me to find fitting clothes in the industry. I used to live in France, now I'm in Canada and it's even worse, because depending on the shop you go, I have found at least 3 sizing systems in use in ready-to-wear. And nothing ever fits.
It's not like I'm an extraordinary size either, but because I'm tall and slender, anything that fits in terms of width is too short in the legs and sleeves, and oppositely, things that are long enough are loose and wide beyond fixing with a belt. Taller than average people and larger than average people basically get the same thing, which makes no sense for either of them. And then if I find something roughly my size, there are always cut problems: whatever pants size you chose, NONE really take seat depth in consideration, and everything gapes or wrinkles weirdly on me.
Maybe I have weird proportions, but I'm pretty sure some people have similar or mirror/opposite problems with ready-to-wear. I don't understand how anyone finds anything wearable these days, unless they get it tailored or go to specialized (i.e. expensive) brands. At the end of the day, I found it simpler to just learn to make/adjust my own patterns and make things the exact way I want them.
I have a vintage Burda Magazine from 1978. For the patterns in there I would have to size up two sizes :)
I would love a label with exact measurements on RTW clothes!
Yes, it's fascinating how much companies have changed the sizing in just a few decades, but it does get confusing. I too would love a measurement based system, but I can imagine that for many people knowing how to measure is confusing too. But not for us sewists 😊
I’m about a size 44 at H&M (usually..) but I’m a size 46 or 48 in even present-day Burda magazines... Usually a 46, and then I need an FBA. I’ve learnt to look at measurements, not sizes. I don’t care about the number, but I do care about fit!
so, so virtuous until the last...."eat snacks and watch the world burn"...now I don't have to sum up my year. I need to do better. I am capable. I stumble a lot! Hugs for 2020.
I learned to sew using Burda so taking my measurements was always the first step. Once I learned Petite alterations from them, the fit of my clothes got even better. I am a proportional, hourglass Petite of 1,53 m. Burda is usual a close fit but their descriptions (though provided without a numbered chart) are always accurate. In the Big 4, US patterns, I always go down 1 size from what I should be in the chart on the flap, and then do my specific alterations (Petite, Narrow Shoulders, Forward shoulder, narrower waist). I do wish ALL brands would include Bust, Waist and Hip placement AND finished measurements. Yes, as the US seamstresses seem to do a lot, you can measure the pattern piece, but this information is already available so why not give it to me? Especially the Indie brands with digital patterns. Use that website! I especially want to know *where is the waistline on this design*
I want to add that I live in a Third World country and, until 20-30 yrs ago, most garments were custom made. So when I started travelling and shopping in North America, I was terribly confused by the sizing. Almost cried once from trying on jeans, I felt like a monstrous blob!!!
@The Last Stitch Hi Johanna I loved the video but I am interested to know where you found all your information.
This a very good tutorial thank you from Switzerland
What happens is that many people do not know they measurements
Yes that I think could be a real issue, I actually found a Swedish study trying this idea and they did come to the conclusion that without proper info some participants was very unsure on how to do this properly
That's absolutely true Elsa. Or, they would be horrified to take them & admit them to anyone..This would be the case more so for someone who does not sew...those of us who sew, are more aware of our own measurements ( in my case, I even hate to admit them to myself...ha..ha....)
@@howardgoldstein8290 I visited the Vionnet exhibit in Paris in 2011 and she took measurements in code...
Very interesting, thanks!
Would rather have a universal sizing system.
Yes that would really make it less confusing, but I do think it would have to be based on actual measurements because as soon as we start using arbitrary numbers and letters it leaves room for deviation
Thanks very helpful. Im interested in fashion and in order to get more length i prefer to go with bellybutton measurement and have extra length to accommodate my thighs. It explains why people dont get it 🙄 im quite light i would be unhealthy if i was much lighter but I need flares 2 pants fit my legs in every store im a runner. Im much smaller on top down to xs and xxs im classic pear but thighs and calves the most prominent. I go for long inseams up a size or 2 but then have to alter waist think that comfort and stretchy material is important and wearing them with room is important.
Thank you for your video. I am a large cup size G/GG but in ready to wear a UK size 12/14. It’s a struggle for me to adjust sewing patterns as I am relatively new to dressmaking. Any tips you could give me? 😀
You need to learn how to do a Full Bust Adjustment. Basically, you measure around your armpit and pick that size, then slash the pattern to add the extra space needed for your breasts to the front bodice pattern pieces. Look up channel Tomkat Stitchery or Alexandra Morgan of In House Patterns for tutorials. Or the Curvy Sewing Collective blog. Good luck!
Hi Sabina! I’m about the same shape and size as you are. I did a search on the wonderful pattern database over at the Foldline. I put in the search term “full bust” (or maybe it was “cup size”?) I have been able to find a few patterns and pattern companies that cater to my body shape that way:
- Style ARC
- Christine Haynes (who has recently relaunched, so not many patterns out yet)
- Simplicity’s Amazing Fit patterns come in cup sizes. Don’t be fooled by the letters (A through DD); just look at your body measurements and the finished garment measurements - make sure to have wearing ease! You’ll need anywhere from 5-20 cms of wearing ease depending on the pattern and the fabric. Best to measure a garment that fits your bust well and compare it to the finished garment measurements. You can pick your size based on your waist measurement, and then see which “cup size” will give you the ease you need. I hope that helps!
Also, quite a few indie pattern companies have tutorials on how to do an FBA on their garments, and if they don’t, I have found that they will usually happily email you instructions/a chart!
Billie V Thank you very much for your suggestions
meacelestin Thank you very much for your help. 😀
Vanity sizing in ready to wear is real. When I was in my 20's I always wore a size 2 or 4. Now 40 years later I'm still the same size. (maybe a bit lumpier) but now these sizes are too big for me. I'm a zero in ready to wear. On to sewing.. I usually fit into the smallest size for the pattern. So I made the nina lee kew dress in the smallest size. Big mistake. I should have looked at the envelope. I made a beautiful dress that will fit me if I lose 10 pounds. sigh..... Just so you know. I'm in the United States.
What the companies do is for a M they make them larger