I wish Stealth Rock had Toxic Spikes mechanics. Switch in a rock type and they would get absorbed. Rocks aren't the best defensively, but that'd give them a huge defensive niche (and a big opportunity for counterplay by nailing them on the switch).
pokemon with the earth eater ability should just eat all hazards on switch in a full course gourmet of rocks, spikes, a bit of toxic spike spices and a sticky web for that extra flavour
Stealth rock should not affect resistances and weakness. It would still be very much valued but no longer makes mons like Charizard or Moltres or Articune completely useless.
@@wowwt Or it could deal more reasonable damage. 66% damage if resistant (doesn't matter if x2 or x4) and 150% damage if weak (again, doesn't matter if x2 or x4) would have been very reasonable and a nice way to punish flying types which are otherwise really privileged - 18.75% on switch-in sounds fair to me.
If you simply get rid of Dugtrio he might be alright Glidus. Poison type with Intimidate and Glare is good vs Fighters + can paralyze Ground types which is not horrible
@@jimothycoolEven without getting rid of dug if you had the berries that reduce super effective damage that would work too. You could turn dug weak mons into counters with a simple berry.
I feel like mons like Hariyama and heracross would love this change. I could even see intentional agil pass sets to guts hera for a hardcore sweep into tox spikes.
Lots of potential if you want to venture into this kind of content territory. BKC has tackled a lot of these hypotheticals on his channel as I'm sure you know (this is more for others who read this and might want to check those out). I think Assault Vest, Black Sludge, Safety Goggles, Expert Belt (10% to maintain parity with Magnet etc.), Iron Ball, and Covert Cloak could all fit well into the ADV OU meta. Then stuff like resist berries, Rocky Helmet, Clear Amulet, Eject Button, Red Card, and Air Balloon could probably be interesting without busting the metagame wide open. Hidden abilities (that already exist in ADV, so no Poison Heal or Technician for Breloom but Suicune can get Water Absorb) that Pokémon get later (might end up leading to banning weather though lmao). Static Zapdos ruining lives lmao (or you could go with Lightning Rod). Critical hits being 1/24 and 1.5x instead of 1/16 2.0x, Grass-types being immune to Powder moves, Electric-types being immune to paralysis, Oblivious etc. being immune to Intimidate, burn dealing 1/16, Fairy-type added along with some moves (would be special, of course), Steel losing its resistance to Ghost/Dark, RBY Hyper Beam, boom nerf, Ghost-types immune to being trapped, so many possibilities really. Fun stuff to think about.
33 minutes ago my mind was already blown by the release of this video. however thanks to the damage over time nature of poison i have only just now seen how insane this video truly is.
Good video. Would love to see this series expanded to how other arguably problematic mechanics in later gens would affect Gen 3 OU (Damaging Pivot moves, Dreamworld Abilities)
I like thinking about if Snow Warning were in Gen 3 and was on something like Glalie. What does Gen 3 OU look like when Skarm, Tar, Metagross, Swampert, etc take chip? Cloyster stocks go up?
Ooooo, I love theory videos like this! I would certainly not complain about seeing more of them from you, especially because you have the competitive experience needed to give reasonable predictions as to how these changes would affect the metagame. Great video as always Jimothy!
I was just thinking about how a video series where u theorize the changes to gen 3 meta game with the implementation of later gen mechanics would be a great idea. Some other ideas are: stealth rocks, buffed defog, life orb, choice specs, choice scarf, permanent rain/sun (on OU mons, I know it exists in Ubers)
@@raiford5082 it's a pretty obscure fact haha. I played gen 4 when it was current (only generation I played except for 3 nowadays) and I don't remember anybody ever playing nidoqueen or tentacruel back then, so the interaction with toxic spikes could only come up in the roserade vs roserade matchup, which is another way to say that it never came up
Love the idea ❤️ I also always wondered how the metagame would change if Pokemons would have a fifth move slot. Those "Four move syndrome" mons could shine like Umbreon
In more cases than not, it would shift the metagame to be far more offensive because of how many mons could add an extra piece of coverage or progress-making tool to their sets
Alternative title : how to make TSS even stronger (but revamp the entire metagame as well) If Weezing got toxic spikes though... it would pretty much skyrocket in popularity. Guys counters Dugtrio's entire reason for being just by existing
How INSANE would POKEMON’s very BEST generation of competitive Pokémon be with choice scarf, specs, and assault vest. Who am I kidding, show me the heavy duty boots.
Now imagine Gen 3 OU if cross-gen evolutions such as Roserade and Dusknoir were allowed in the tier. I wonder how much that would impact the current meta.
i think guts mons would be indirectly buffed by this in a significant way. having no flame orb sucks, so gen 3 guts is mostly used to scare you into not clicking status or on hariyama to nuke things with focus punch. if t-spikes were common then you could switch banded heracross in as soon as the first layer goes up to get a 2.25x boost then go to work, this could work nicely on superman with a defensive jirachi as the special wall to also provide wish support for heracross
On this I've been wondering about if there've been any conversations about Gen 2 exclusive moves making their way into the Gen 3 metagame now that there are ways to migrate pokemon from GSC up? Nidoking may not get toxic spikes but lovely kiss nidoking would be interesting in current Gen 3 OU
A time ago I expended a lot of time wondering how much gen 3 ou would change if you could get hidden abilities (other than the weather abilities) and I think there would be plenty of interesting changes
This sounds great, to my utterly subjective taste. Buffs to cool pokes like nidoking, tentacruel maybe cloyster, and forretress, as well as giving another avenue for dealing with blissey and suicune who I find a bit tedious, with the only real downside being buffing guts heracross. ...does nerf the salac variant for sandless teams though, which is nice
Hello Jim, I couldn't help but notice that Serperior has usurped my dear Kabutops' place in the Thank You list at the end of the video. Is this another ploy by Omastar to thwart Kabutops' efforts to become the best water/rock fossil of all time?
It would poop on swamperts viability esp with its ability to chip heal. It would basically be forced to run refresh on most sets cutting into its already limited moveslots
I would so run a stall dugtrio with toxic spikes. Arena trap with sub and protect and just letting my toxic spikes poison your Pokémon until they faint
I feel like with Venomoth, wouldn't Sleep and Toxic Spikes create some anti-synergy? Smeargle can use Spore and Spikes because they don't inflict status. Venomoth could only sleep Steel-, Flying-, and Poison-types. Which would be good for Skarmory I guess? I may be overthinking this
What if rock types cleared stealth rocks on switch in? What if there was a broom item that cleared hazards on entry? Pokémon always leave their room dirty. This is insane.
This might be a hot take but can we hust have an alternate metagame or optional mod with no hazards at all? I know its part of the game but I hate how a huge part of the game is just battling against hazards instead of attacks, setups, and strategy. Why punish a player for making a correct prediction and switching for example?
I really enjoy these what-if scenarios as presented by users competent in competitor play Please tell me what happens if fairy had been in the game from Gen one
Personally I'd like to see what wouldve happened if Dark were physical and Ghost were special in gen 3. You're telling me that Crunch, Bite, and Night Slash are all special attacks? off the top of my head, a lot of ghosts get good stab shadow ball (except banette lol) while most pursuit trappers hit a lot harder (no more surviving TTar pursuit with gengar sadly)
I wish Stealth Rock had Toxic Spikes mechanics. Switch in a rock type and they would get absorbed. Rocks aren't the best defensively, but that'd give them a huge defensive niche (and a big opportunity for counterplay by nailing them on the switch).
pokemon with the earth eater ability should just eat all hazards on switch in
a full course gourmet of rocks, spikes, a bit of toxic spike spices and a sticky web for that extra flavour
I always thought magcargo and a few other mons should have an ability that melts rocks away
Stealth rock should not affect resistances and weakness.
It would still be very much valued but no longer makes mons like Charizard or Moltres or Articune completely useless.
@@wowwt Or it could deal more reasonable damage. 66% damage if resistant (doesn't matter if x2 or x4) and 150% damage if weak (again, doesn't matter if x2 or x4) would have been very reasonable and a nice way to punish flying types which are otherwise really privileged - 18.75% on switch-in sounds fair to me.
Flame body should be able to melt stealth rocks when you enter!
The toxicity of this dangerous strategy cannot be understated. It's truly hazardous, folks.
This is insane.
Good pun based on the video
how much of the game would you have to change for Arbok to be viable
like are we talking just a couple of changes and he's good, or do we have to start this whole thing over
If you simply get rid of Dugtrio he might be alright Glidus. Poison type with Intimidate and Glare is good vs Fighters + can paralyze Ground types which is not horrible
@@jimothycool thank you Jimothy Cool for the new Arbok insight. i will get started on Banning Dugtrio Immediately.
Delete everything except Arbok
@@jimothycoolEven without getting rid of dug if you had the berries that reduce super effective damage that would work too. You could turn dug weak mons into counters with a simple berry.
guts stock would shoot through the roof
"Call an ambulance, but not for me" moment
I feel like mons like Hariyama and heracross would love this change. I could even see intentional agil pass sets to guts hera for a hardcore sweep into tox spikes.
252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 220-259 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
@@ugandaknuckles850 drill peck this! *kerblam*
@@Typh3621 Honestly might still be worth it to avoid the tyranny of "bring sand or lose to random sub-salac heracrosses"
Muk stocks go way up
Muk Monday folks
Kum😂
Every Muk has its Monday
Lots of potential if you want to venture into this kind of content territory. BKC has tackled a lot of these hypotheticals on his channel as I'm sure you know (this is more for others who read this and might want to check those out).
I think Assault Vest, Black Sludge, Safety Goggles, Expert Belt (10% to maintain parity with Magnet etc.), Iron Ball, and Covert Cloak could all fit well into the ADV OU meta.
Then stuff like resist berries, Rocky Helmet, Clear Amulet, Eject Button, Red Card, and Air Balloon could probably be interesting without busting the metagame wide open.
Hidden abilities (that already exist in ADV, so no Poison Heal or Technician for Breloom but Suicune can get Water Absorb) that Pokémon get later (might end up leading to banning weather though lmao). Static Zapdos ruining lives lmao (or you could go with Lightning Rod).
Critical hits being 1/24 and 1.5x instead of 1/16 2.0x, Grass-types being immune to Powder moves, Electric-types being immune to paralysis, Oblivious etc. being immune to Intimidate, burn dealing 1/16, Fairy-type added along with some moves (would be special, of course), Steel losing its resistance to Ghost/Dark, RBY Hyper Beam, boom nerf, Ghost-types immune to being trapped, so many possibilities really.
Fun stuff to think about.
33 minutes ago my mind was already blown by the release of this video. however thanks to the damage over time nature of poison i have only just now seen how insane this video truly is.
Watching this laying on my stomach kicking my feet, thinking about how cool Jimothy is.
Good video. Would love to see this series expanded to how other arguably problematic mechanics in later gens would affect Gen 3 OU (Damaging Pivot moves, Dreamworld Abilities)
I like thinking about if Snow Warning were in Gen 3 and was on something like Glalie. What does Gen 3 OU look like when Skarm, Tar, Metagross, Swampert, etc take chip? Cloyster stocks go up?
Your purely gen 3 videos just feel so much better than the rest
A Jimothy Cool video came out a few seconds ago. This is insane.
Toxic spikes is an often overlooked entry hazard that creates a long term threat to bulky pokemon
I honestly find these competitive theory videos super interesting
Ooooo, I love theory videos like this! I would certainly not complain about seeing more of them from you, especially because you have the competitive experience needed to give reasonable predictions as to how these changes would affect the metagame.
Great video as always Jimothy!
I really like what-if scenarios like this coming from someone with a lot of competitive experience such as yourself.
Finally, the niche Muk has been waiting for
Muk's moment has arrived
Muk does have a niche, but it's only on Mondays. Specifically Muk Mondays.
Imagine if Muk had recover. It would be usable
I love to see the channel grow and i think it's well deserved!
Thank you “The Grimothy Reaper”. Now I know what would happen if Gen 3 OU had Toxic Spikes.
80,000 this is insane, worthy of congratulatory gesture
I was just thinking about how a video series where u theorize the changes to gen 3 meta game with the implementation of later gen mechanics would be a great idea. Some other ideas are: stealth rocks, buffed defog, life orb, choice specs, choice scarf, permanent rain/sun (on OU mons, I know it exists in Ubers)
I love theorymon ideas like this, like how to improve a meta or shake it up in a way that's interesting and fun
Not me learning today that poison types can get rid of toxic spikes by switching in. I actually never knew that...
I believe it was a change done i gen 6 or 7 but they never always did it so it's fair if you never knew
@@raiford5082 not true, poison types could remove toxic spikes by switching in from the beginning (which was gen 4)
@@konsth191 Damn I just looked it up and you are correct, I guess I never noticed it until later generations too.
@@raiford5082 it's a pretty obscure fact haha. I played gen 4 when it was current (only generation I played except for 3 nowadays) and I don't remember anybody ever playing nidoqueen or tentacruel back then, so the interaction with toxic spikes could only come up in the roserade vs roserade matchup, which is another way to say that it never came up
I thought I was already subbed but I wasn’t, I am now tho! Keep up the great work Jimothy, thank you for your contributions to competitive pokemon
Toxic spikes seems like it would indirectly buff superman teams.
Love the idea ❤️
I also always wondered how the metagame would change if Pokemons would have a fifth move slot.
Those "Four move syndrome" mons could shine like Umbreon
In more cases than not, it would shift the metagame to be far more offensive because of how many mons could add an extra piece of coverage or progress-making tool to their sets
A cool video im not sure anyone has done yet would be "what would pokemon be like if the physical special split never happened"
we love you Jimothy, the coolest dude around
This would certainly be an interesting change.
I like learning more about gen 3
Alternative title : how to make TSS even stronger (but revamp the entire metagame as well)
If Weezing got toxic spikes though... it would pretty much skyrocket in popularity. Guys counters Dugtrio's entire reason for being just by existing
The Old Gen that needs a New Gen mechanic the most is giving Gen 5 Gen 6's non infinite weather. Might make it playable
This sounds like it would make Weezing Wednesday a weekly occurence.
Folks, its a furret field day.
Days since Groodon: 5
How INSANE would POKEMON’s very BEST generation of competitive Pokémon be with choice scarf, specs, and assault vest.
Who am I kidding, show me the heavy duty boots.
being able to toxic suicune without ramming into pressure would be huge
There’d be a much better argument for snorlax over blissey as a special wall thanks to immunity
This is all roselia daydreams for jimothy :)
Waiting for the "What if Ghost was Special and Dark Physical?" video.
Would be cool to see this concept with u-turn
“Honey, we’re viable!”
I would love to see a “what if Gen 3 had Gravity”
The long awaited Gen 3 Gulpin Update
Jimothy will find anyway he can to NOT have a Gen 4 focused vid
Im more interested in Drought and Drizzle hidden abilities in Gen 3 OU like Torkoal, Ninetales, Politoed and Pelliper
Cannot wait for sub tect dugtrio w/ toxic spikes
Good, another hazard for Skarmory to ignore.
It's a Furret Festivity, Folks!
Video idea: Gen 3 OU but all pokemon have all gen 1-3 moves they learn in later gens available. (Typhlosion with Eruption, for example).
I think it would be funny if we let whole-ass Gen 4 mons with 1 Gen 4 move into Gen 3 OU to see what would happen. Like imagine Lucario in Gen 3 OU.
Now imagine Gen 3 OU if cross-gen evolutions such as Roserade and Dusknoir were allowed in the tier. I wonder how much that would impact the current meta.
please make more videos on how mechanics from future generations would affect the gen 3 metagame
i think guts mons would be indirectly buffed by this in a significant way. having no flame orb sucks, so gen 3 guts is mostly used to scare you into not clicking status or on hariyama to nuke things with focus punch. if t-spikes were common then you could switch banded heracross in as soon as the first layer goes up to get a 2.25x boost then go to work, this could work nicely on superman with a defensive jirachi as the special wall to also provide wish support for heracross
On this I've been wondering about if there've been any conversations about Gen 2 exclusive moves making their way into the Gen 3 metagame now that there are ways to migrate pokemon from GSC up? Nidoking may not get toxic spikes but lovely kiss nidoking would be interesting in current Gen 3 OU
TSSS just announced
I love toxic spikes as a move. I love it the most in AAA for meme Merciless teams
Superman would be sick.
Please theoryze more about metagames, specially ADV if you want to. Is só much fun
A gen 9 ladder with only gen 3 mons would be fun..
Now do a video on if gravity was in Gen 3. Forcing spikes chip on usually flying mons could actually be kinda useful.
Damn this sounds fun
A time ago I expended a lot of time wondering how much gen 3 ou would change if you could get hidden abilities (other than the weather abilities) and I think there would be plenty of interesting changes
This would definitely be a huge buff to gengar.
Absorbs spikes while also keeping its role of denying spikes removal.
Since Gengar is levitating in Gen 3, it will actually not remove toxic spikes. Only grounded Poison-types remove them from the field
@@freshpasta9463 ah, didn’t know that effect applied to them needing to ‘land’ in it.
Idea: what if gen 7 pokemon had gen 9 buffs? (Aka tyranitar getting knock off, gastro getting spikes and stealth rock etc...)
It would be Muk Monday every day
This sounds great, to my utterly subjective taste. Buffs to cool pokes like nidoking, tentacruel maybe cloyster, and forretress, as well as giving another avenue for dealing with blissey and suicune who I find a bit tedious, with the only real downside being buffing guts heracross. ...does nerf the salac variant for sandless teams though, which is nice
Hello Jim, I couldn't help but notice that Serperior has usurped my dear Kabutops' place in the Thank You list at the end of the video. Is this another ploy by Omastar to thwart Kabutops' efforts to become the best water/rock fossil of all time?
It would poop on swamperts viability esp with its ability to chip heal. It would basically be forced to run refresh on most sets cutting into its already limited moveslots
TSSTS teams gonna go wild
I feel that Tspikes in Gen 3 would make Zapdos broken
Would Venonat be any good? On paper, Compound Eyes + Sleep Powder + Toxic Spikes sounds kinda good.
Want to balance stealth rock/ spikes? Set a limit to his many times they activate. Maybe they hurt the next 10 switch ins before to be reset
I would so run a stall dugtrio with toxic spikes. Arena trap with sub and protect and just letting my toxic spikes poison your Pokémon until they faint
I guess heal bell would be almost required on Blissey or you’d need to focus on rapid spinners even more.
I feel like with Venomoth, wouldn't Sleep and Toxic Spikes create some anti-synergy? Smeargle can use Spore and Spikes because they don't inflict status. Venomoth could only sleep Steel-, Flying-, and Poison-types. Which would be good for Skarmory I guess? I may be overthinking this
Not if it's a lead and uses the early sleep to get the hazards up. It'd be just like how Roserade is used in Gen 4 OU
Oh, makes sense. Thanks!
What if rock types cleared stealth rocks on switch in? What if there was a broom item that cleared hazards on entry? Pokémon always leave their room dirty. This is insane.
is this something that's been tried on dragonhaven? sounds fun
QWILFISH TIME 4
How GOOD would toxic spikes be ACTUALLY?
How about sandstorm defense boost for rock types?
What if toxic spikes were in generation 3,
More theorymon videos soon?
No Muk Mention? Has Muk been marooned on this day (Monday)?
nerf spikes, buff toxic spikes
I'm curious if this would make it so that Snorlax would be picked more often as a special wall since it gets immunity
Now
How will be of the fisical-special categorie split from gen 4 never appear. How much strange and what pokemon benefit from it
5:00
Can I ask what this sound effect is?
Can you do What if Toxic Spikes was in Gen 2!?
jimmy how did you play gen 3 with toxic spikes in showdown?
Iron Mugulis meta
What if ADV had the buffs gen 9 gave, I.e boltbeam gardevoir would be a good idea
Dugtrio would get even better I think.
*Hoenn gaiden intensifies*
Do Flying or Levitating Poison type Pokemon, remove Toxic Spikes?
Hypotheticals? Heck yeah. Now imagine gen 3 with blaze kick as a fighting type move that could cause burn. How viable does Blaziken become?
This might be a hot take but can we hust have an alternate metagame or optional mod with no hazards at all? I know its part of the game but I hate how a huge part of the game is just battling against hazards instead of attacks, setups, and strategy. Why punish a player for making a correct prediction and switching for example?
Salamence heal bell meta
I really enjoy these what-if scenarios as presented by users competent in competitor play
Please tell me what happens if fairy had been in the game from Gen one
Rosalia has grass whistle for sleep, right?
Personally I'd like to see what wouldve happened if Dark were physical and Ghost were special in gen 3. You're telling me that Crunch, Bite, and Night Slash are all special attacks?
off the top of my head, a lot of ghosts get good stab shadow ball (except banette lol) while most pursuit trappers hit a lot harder (no more surviving TTar pursuit with gengar sadly)
Night Slash did not exist in gen 3. This user is a fake Pokemon fan - possibly a Palworld enthusiast, investigation pending.