Oh boy, ol' Harold C. I used to call and debate against him for 1/2 of his hour long ''Open Forum''. His Daughter Marie is a pleasant girl, we went out once, but I just couldn't handle her father's perspective.
Crisis his commentary on Revelation is one set of books. But many of his books on Revelation or Daniel cover eschatology. his view does not fit one view. he takes the best elements from all views and disregards the problem areas. perhaps one book you might want to start with is: "The Coming Worldwide Calvary: Christ Versus Antichrist" Amazon has many choices.
Another recommendation from Des Ford's widow is this Desmond Ford The Final Rollercoaster found here: www.amazon.com/Final-Rollercoaster-Elijah-Jezebel-Again-ebook/dp/B079574RJJ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Desmond%20Ford%20The%20Final%20Rollercoaster&qid=1632617457&sr=8-1&fbclid=IwAR3wKA4vSoLL7vM4RG7DiwFhOc3D9-2s98Wj6RSdQZ54lVjaBR-jZvhpPso
Considering Christians since the first century have been in Tribulation, with mass persecution and death. I don't see how God warning us about going through the last and final great tribulation is a heartless God?
@ fleetwd I got your reply and I thank you for viewing that video. I have criticism on the pre-trib believer side too. We tend to try to make things simple for explanation purposes so we use terms the opposition are familiar with i.e. second coming. Yes the coming of the Lord to get his saints is the 2nd coming and I believe this will STILL be before the Great Tribulation and then later will be the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD when he comes to judge and setup 1000yr kingdom on earth.
correct. Your religions is based on faith. So why do you want to have faith in martyrdom? You have two doctrines you can hold on to. Wouldn't the one that sounds better suit you? Truth is based on YOUR interpretation of what is truth. I don't debate these things anymore because your truth will never override my truth. We will never know 100% the truth until judgement comes. However I am curious why people believe what they believe when there is so much to believe.
God never said His people would never suffer or have trials...but He has promised that He would always be with us through trial. during the plagues of egypt, Gods people were protected and provided for THRU the plagues. adversity in the christian life proves who's side we are on if we keep following Him even in adversity. remember Job? "tho He slay me yet will i trust Him" king david wondered why it seemed the wicked prospered while the righteous suffered. God makes rain to fall on both.
interpretation doesnt prove anything except that you believe something (theology) specific which MAY or MAY not be true. interpretation DOES NOT determine the truth. the truth is the truth no matter what kind of crazy (yours) interpretation (theology) people come up with.
well then, 'more logical' would therefore completely exclude the futurist rapture theory, but believe as you like. I wish you well my friend. take care.
1. you still dont get it. truth is truth...your wrong interpretation of it doesnt change doesnt change it because you dont like it. the bible is silent on anything about a secret rapture and saints escaping all trouble. that notion is ridiculous. God did not promise that we would never have trouble, He said He would be with us THROUGH the trouble. the bible says through MUCH TRIBULATION shall ye enter the kingdom of God. there is no 'your truth' & 'my truth', there is only God's BIBLE truth.
@dollarbill I have listen to the full video but might have missed something but from what I gathered from this man is that he is very well learned yet he has not debunk the rapture but only simply deny it based on modern history concerning dispensational teaching. He needs to prove a PostTrib rapture which he has not. He needs to prove a Catching away of LiVING saints after Satan has been imprisoned in the pit. Becoz thats when the dead martyrs r raised. No PostTribber can prove their doctrine.
No Rapture....why do people believe this fairy tale? Those taken away are the wicked! The Movie Left Behind has brainwashed the world. Do not be deceived, Jesus said!
@@yeswing10 you're right. after eight years I've come to believe there is no rapture. Only a fleeing of Israel to the wilderness Rev 12. You gentiles have to endure the tribulation.
@@WilliamJoseph2015 Yes, maybe someday, I will see you on the highway of righteousness on the way to New Jerusalem. I will tug your mantle as you lead the way to the Great City of God to worship. Blessed is he that cometh in the Name of the Lord.
@@yeswing10 absolutely, come. Zechariah 8:23 KJV - Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
NO the bible does NOT PROVE YOUR THEOLOGY. Your interpretation proves your theology. And this is not a issue of my lack of faith or salvation. THis is an issue about what is truth. Let try this as an example 2 Thes 2:6-8 7...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Question: Who is "the HE that letteth"
the bible proves my theology. if you have no faith in the bible as you are showing here, then you need to just give up now, because that lack of faith wont lead to salvation anyway. take care.
Touché Well. The God according to your bible is merciful god. rewarding the righteous and punishing the wicked. So why does your doctrine teach that God punishes the righteous along with the wicked during the great tribulation..that wrath that is to come?
Key, absolutely key words!! Central to our faith, thank you, Des!
Thank you Des.. Sure do miss you in Banff !,!
Amen and thank you
Excellent!
Oh boy, ol' Harold C. I used to call and debate against him for 1/2 of his hour long ''Open Forum''. His Daughter Marie is a pleasant girl, we went out once, but I just couldn't handle her father's perspective.
i understand completely, I am glad my wife took more after her mother than her father. It would have been unbearable otherwise
Did Des Ford write a book on escatology?
Crisis his commentary on Revelation is one set of books. But many of his books on Revelation or Daniel cover eschatology. his view does not fit one view. he takes the best elements from all views and disregards the problem areas. perhaps one book you might want to start with is: "The Coming Worldwide Calvary: Christ Versus Antichrist" Amazon has many choices.
Another recommendation from Des Ford's widow is this Desmond Ford The Final Rollercoaster found here: www.amazon.com/Final-Rollercoaster-Elijah-Jezebel-Again-ebook/dp/B079574RJJ/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Desmond%20Ford%20The%20Final%20Rollercoaster&qid=1632617457&sr=8-1&fbclid=IwAR3wKA4vSoLL7vM4RG7DiwFhOc3D9-2s98Wj6RSdQZ54lVjaBR-jZvhpPso
Considering Christians since the first century have been in Tribulation, with mass persecution and death. I don't see how God warning us about going through the last and final great tribulation is a heartless God?
@ fleetwd I got your reply and I thank you for viewing that video. I have criticism on the pre-trib believer side too. We tend to try to make things simple for explanation purposes so we use terms the opposition are familiar with i.e. second coming.
Yes the coming of the Lord to get his saints is the 2nd coming and I believe this will STILL be before the Great Tribulation and then later will be the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD when he comes to judge and setup 1000yr kingdom on earth.
I never said i was 100% right...but if you believe in the secret rapture left behind cartoon theory then you are 100% wrong.
LOL, and Des just finished warning about those who are absolutely certain they're right. Thank you for making his point.
correct. Your religions is based on faith. So why do you want to have faith in martyrdom? You have two doctrines you can hold on to. Wouldn't the one that sounds better suit you? Truth is based on YOUR interpretation of what is truth.
I don't debate these things anymore because your truth will never override my truth. We will never know 100% the truth until judgement comes. However I am curious why people believe what they believe when there is so much to believe.
God never said His people would never suffer or have trials...but He has promised that He would always be with us through trial.
during the plagues of egypt, Gods people were protected and provided for THRU the plagues.
adversity in the christian life proves who's side we are on if we keep following Him even in adversity. remember Job? "tho He slay me yet will i trust Him"
king david wondered why it seemed the wicked prospered while the righteous suffered. God makes rain to fall on both.
...as in the days of Noah. Noah found favor with God and was saved from God's wrath.
interpretation doesnt prove anything except that you believe something (theology) specific which MAY or MAY not be true. interpretation DOES NOT determine the truth. the truth is the truth no matter what kind of crazy (yours) interpretation (theology) people come up with.
WOW...you don't believe in "anything"....Why and when did this happen? i know u don't have to answer but I would like to understand....
well then, 'more logical' would therefore completely exclude the futurist rapture theory, but believe as you like. I wish you well my friend. take care.
1. you still dont get it. truth is truth...your wrong interpretation of it doesnt change doesnt change it because you dont like it. the bible is silent on anything about a secret rapture and saints escaping all trouble. that notion is ridiculous. God did not promise that we would never have trouble, He said He would be with us THROUGH the trouble. the bible says through MUCH TRIBULATION shall ye enter the kingdom of God.
there is no 'your truth' & 'my truth', there is only God's BIBLE truth.
@dollarbill I have listen to the full video but might have missed something but from what I gathered from this man is that he is very well learned yet he has not debunk the rapture but only simply deny it based on modern history concerning dispensational teaching. He needs to prove a PostTrib rapture which he has not. He needs to prove a Catching away of LiVING saints after Satan has been imprisoned in the pit. Becoz thats when the dead martyrs r raised.
No PostTribber can prove their doctrine.
No Rapture....why do people believe this fairy tale? Those taken away are the wicked! The Movie Left Behind has brainwashed the world. Do not be deceived, Jesus said!
@@yeswing10 you're right. after eight years I've come to believe there is no rapture. Only a fleeing of Israel to the wilderness Rev 12. You gentiles have to endure the tribulation.
@@WilliamJoseph2015 Yes, maybe someday, I will see you on the highway of righteousness on the way to New Jerusalem. I will tug your mantle as you lead the way to the Great City of God to worship.
Blessed is he that cometh in the Name of the Lord.
@@yeswing10 absolutely, come.
Zechariah 8:23 KJV - Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
@@WilliamJoseph2015 Thank you for finding that ! Amen, Amen
Now you're getting it! Your ALL CRAZY if you think your 100% right.
NO the bible does NOT PROVE YOUR THEOLOGY. Your interpretation proves your theology.
And this is not a issue of my lack of faith or salvation. THis is an issue about what is truth.
Let try this as an example
2 Thes 2:6-8
7...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Question: Who is "the HE that letteth"
the bible proves my theology. if you have no faith in the bible as you are showing here, then you need to just give up now, because that lack of faith wont lead to salvation anyway. take care.
No doubt you prove *_your_* theology using many various parts of the Bible.
Touché
Well. The God according to your bible is merciful god. rewarding the righteous and punishing the wicked. So why does your doctrine teach that God punishes the righteous along with the wicked during the great tribulation..that wrath that is to come?
I don't believe in anything. But sense I should I rather pick the belief that's more logical
The color of the sky can be proven. Your theology can not.