An idea regarding the construction of leather armor.
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- Опубликовано: 15 апр 2021
- In which I share a half baked idea.
Half tanned leather has certain advantages over full tanned leather, not the least requiring five to eleven months less waiting and eight hours or so less hard labor.
Just a thought...
There actually is some evidence from the 14th century that leather armour was, at least sometimes, made from half-tanned leather. It comes from a text kept in the Ashmolean museum which mentions glueing two pieces of half-tanned leather, flesh side to flesh side, to make a doublet of fense.
Yeah. I’ll have to try the recipe.
@@MalcolmPL
you have used Albumen and Tannins powder mixed with olive oil
Then apply it to the half-tanned leather that has already been boiled
And let the mixture dry in the air, after drying it, heat it with a fire wick?
🤔
This is likely the most informational and quality comments section ive read through.
Something I intended to mention, but forgot when scripting, is that plains war shields are made by stretching a fresh buffalo hide over a fire until it shrinks and contracts down to significant thickness. (See my video, "Speculation on Iroquoian shields.") I've tried this on some small test scraps and the end result broke one of my knives. So hides don't need to be tanned to be hardened.
Also, a commenter just pointed me in the direction of a comment thread on Tod's workshop's leather armor video. I don't usually read comments on bigger channels, as anything useful tends to be buried under a sea of memes. But I should have done here. To cut a long story short, It seems like I'm late to the party yet again.
@@MalcolmPL After seeing this I went back to the comment section over at Tod's. If you came up independently with a similar theory to the old recipe that's an achievement in itself. Will you try the recipe?
Maybe. I’ve got lots of iron filings kicking around.
@@MalcolmPL
I once saw in an old TV series, I could see how a musket ball bounced off some kind of greasy skin armor.
the armor was 6 to 8 layers of skin
I say skin and not leather, because it had not gone through all the leather processing and it was still greasy, it even stank from the grease.
A shot was fired at a clean, tanned leather armor, with the same amount of layers 6 to 8, and the bullet did go through that leather armor.
So I do believe you when you say that it is more resistant in comparison.
The historian ended by saying:
It's a shame, no one used these skin armors because they stank because of the grease, but if they had they would have been able to protect themselves from bullets
🤔
Dan Howard states in his book "Bronze age military equipment" that he believes that most if not all leather armour in antiquity would have been rawhide or half-tanned, so I do think this makes some sense.
Partially tanned leather is certainly superior to fully tanned one. If you're interested in the topic, I suggest you grab Chris Dobson's ebook "As Tough as Old Boots..." where he discusses this in some detail and argues that the material used in cuir bouilli was, in fact, partially tanned leather. If you desire to have as thin tanned parts as possible (= and leave as much of the cross-section raw), the missing piece in the puzzle here is using a strong tanning liquid instead of a typical one. This causes a shock reaction that seals the surfaces and prevents the tannage from penetrating further. I've coined this as "Armour-grade partially tanned leather".
I like your method of hardening leather, since it actually comes somewhat close to the way that the armor plates on WWII era german tanks were hardened. Such "case hardening" is also the basis for modern composite tank armor. You basically made the optimal hardening technique
I came accross an interesting recipe for hardened leather. While probably not historical, it is very quick and easy. Mix baking soda with water until milky. Soak your leather through in the liquid, then take out and let dry for 24 hours. The leather will shrink and harden, as well as turning dark brown. I used this process to make a singlestick basket, and the leather is now as hard as plastic.
Interesting, I wonder what's going on there.
I once used some baking soda to get the smell out of a hide I took too long tanning, The outer layers turned hard. I just attributed it to something other than the baking soda.
@@MalcolmPL I assume the basic ph of the baking soda is reacting with the leather somehow and causing a chemical burn, hardening the leather, but I don't know for sure. I'm really enjoying your channel btw. One of my HEMA club friends posted a link to your armor build on our discord channel.
On of my internet friends said that the Hungarians used half tanned leather to make breast plates and greaves.
Good, more potential confirmation.
A number of Islamic and African armours and shields just flatout use rawhide rather than tanned leather, sometimes hardened with lacquer, other times just left untouched behind the actual drying process. Rhino and giraffe skin, it turns out, don't need a lot of help.
At least one Ayyubid source also contains very detailed instructions on creating moulded leather shields and camel hide cuirasses.
You are making awesome stuff
Cheers.
Thank you for Your Knowledge and Testing, I really Appreciate this. Sláinte ☘️
Nice materials
I wonder if covering the leather with laquer would make it and the ropes more durable. It was a trick used by the samurai,since their laquer was able to greatly increase the hardness,but i don't know if it still can be made in a different region with different flora.
I only know about two historical lacquers, one is made from bug excretions and comes from india, the other is a tree sap from the far east.
Hide glue would give you a hard surface, but it isn't ideal as it's water soluble.
That's all I can think of. But this is by no means my area of expertise.
@@MalcolmPL Japanese leather armour is almost an artificial composite. The leather itself - ideally water buffalo hide - is soaked in a fish glue until it penentrates all of the leather fibres. The sections are then cured and dried, and become incredibly hard. Lacquer (tree lacquer) is then applied - dried - the horizontal boards of lamellar armour are tied together with rawhide thonging - and the boards are then given multiple laquer layers.
Shoulder armour for Jukendo (bayonet fencing) is still made from buffalo hide today (sans laquer and glue). It's amazingly thick, and very very solid.
Nice video, your observation on the antler arrows reminds me of the accounts the Spaniards gave of timucua longbow arrows punching through Spanish shields and armor when metal bullets and bolts apparently could not.
I did another video where I tested the antler arrows against a sheet of twenty some gauge sheet steel. The arrow sheared in half and didn't go through. ("Antler arrows vs dark age armor." I think I called it.)
It looks like there's a couple of sellers out of Scandinavia for half tanned hide.
But I can't seem to find the actual process of making half tan leather anywhere online except this video of yours.
The all have to same general description of the half leather part rawhide.
Anywhere I can go to find an actual recipe?
Here’s the recipe I made up.
To make the tanning solution Fill a big pot with walnut hulls, boil until the hulls turn to mush and the water is black. Set aside the solution and make another pot.
Get a tub of water, about twice the volume of the hide, and add tanning solution until the water turns brown.
Soak the hide in the tub for a couple months, add the rest of the solution gradually over this period. If it starts to stink of rot you need to add solution more frequently.
Do not put a tight lid on the container or the skin will ferment.
You can check on how the hide is progressing by cutting a slit into the edge, the colors will demonstrate how far the solution has penetrated.
Once you are satisfied, the hide needs to be dried. You need to either hang it stretched on a rack or to roll it back and forth on a table as it dries. The former is easier but the leather will be very stiff, the latter will make it more flexible, but is a lot of work.
Alternatively Someone else’s veg tanning recipe could be easily adapted, just reduce the duration of the soak in tanning solution by two thirds.
@@MalcolmPL thanks 🙏
Dude can you show more of that helmet from the beginning?
I think you are on to something here. No proof or sources but I imagine that the best leather armor used a mix to several different leathers to take advantage of their various properties.
I'd imagine most of it historically would be made of whatever was to hand. Scraps from other projects, worn out shoe soles. Anything you like.
Can you make the individual squares and then boil them? Or would they deform if they are put into boiling water because of their size?
What you could do is boil each square and then put it under something heavy. That would keep it from warping.
Great Question 🤘🏻☘️
@@MalcolmPL Excellent Answer 🤘🏻☘️
I bet medieval leatherworkers all had their own techniques, too.
What is the draw weight of the bow you use in the video?
3 stone.
@@MalcolmPL thank you.
Hi, I love your videos dude. I think you describe your bow as hunting bow, what draw weight do you reckon it is?
I forget which bow I shot with, it was between 40-50 something. Shot from about fifteen-twenty feet.
@@MalcolmPL Ok, thanks. Keep up the good work buddy.
Yo you should use the half tanned leather as an inner coating for your vest. Then test the vest. And maybe add it on the outside after it’s been treated better or something?
That’s not a bad idea.
@@MalcolmPL all I have is ideas I just can’t build this stuff till I get a job 🤣😂
@@boaz2473 That's what the dole is for.
So maybe veg table tanned coat with half tanned plates sewn to it for best of both worlds
I don't know which would be better, that or rawhide over veg tanned.
'ille' is pronounced 'y' like in 'toy'.
'Fille' = 'fee-y' (a girl, a daughter)
'Bille' = 'bee-y' (a small ball, a bead, a section of a tree trunk)
'Nouille' = 'noo-y' (noodle)
'Touille' = 'too-y' (stir)
'Mouille' = 'moo-y' (dampen, wet)
'Fouille' = 'foo-y' (to dig earth at a small depth, to search for something in a bunch of objects)
'Brouille' = 'broo-y' (to mix, to confuse)
etc
Bouilli(e) = 'boo-y-ee' or 'boo-ee'
🖐🇫🇷🇨🇦
🛶
_
Boo-ee-yeh? I guess that makes sense with what little french I know.
With these anglicized french words, I don’t often bother making an effort. Either I get it wrong because I’m not french, or I sound like a stuck up twit, pronouncing things differently from all the other shlubs.
a realistic leather armor would be more like untanned cow hide armor. Cow hide is not pretty like that nice brown leather we all know but its far thicker and tougher. And at that im suggesting something like 5 or more layers of untreated cow hide that still has the fur on it. That would make decent armor against thongs like swords and blunt weapons a like but you'd look more like a caveman or barbarian that what you see in movies.
Frankly i think wood armor is far better then leather.
Hello. I am new to this and have a suggestion, blood has iron in it..... why not try with animal blood? Random, I know, and I have no idea if this has been done before. 😅
The amount of iron in blood is insignificant for this purpose.
@MalcolmPL I did think about that later, but surely that can be changed, and it may just be a good medium. I've never seen anyone use it. 😬
Gambeson still outperforms + is far cheaper.....pretty sure that leather (much harder to produce) was used almost exclusively for straps/shoes/laces and so on.
Have you researched historical prices and production time? Or are you just talking out of your hat like so many others?
armour gives false hope for a person to say they can survive nothing will change better armour say to build better equipment to go throw it
Not necessarily. Until firearms came around, Human muscles were a limiting factor, a knife can only strike so hard. A bow can only be so powerful.
@@MalcolmPL factor when the arrow or scrod cut guess you bleed to death back then
and can happen in this century too
@@jenniferwhite6089 Yes. But the chances of bleeding to death are a heck of a lot lower if the arrow only goes in half an inch than if it goes all the way through.
@@MalcolmPL you miss the whole point there very primitive them having an arrow going in a 1/2 was a big thing back them disease and infections see where i am look at it they say they were mass grave dig i would not think that was the case by now were should have found them i would say they were paled up and burned DISEASE and INFECTIONS was their worst enemy
I agree that disease was a bigger issue back then. However a half inch wound is still easier to clean and treat than a deeper wound. I can treat a minor injury myself, while An internal injury requires a skilled surgeon.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re getting at with the mass graves and body burning.