Making leather shield armour - Impenetrable? Part 1

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  • Опубликовано: 27 дек 2024
  • I have made traditionally constructed shields before and the slow arrows, but they do not stop them completely and then I came across an original recipe for protecting your shield from "spears and edged weapons".
    Now that is something I have to try, so here I make the leather protection according to the recipe and in the next film I will shoot it, spear it and stab it.
    And yes, I know the 'axe' I show is in fact a sword.....
    For commissions and custom work todsworkshop.com
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    Films referred to:
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Комментарии • 910

  • @Stephen_Curtin
    @Stephen_Curtin Год назад +1222

    I thought when I saw the title, couldn't be... he's not going to make that thing I shared years ago. Wow great stuff as always Tod.

  • @notfeedynotlazy
    @notfeedynotlazy Год назад +413

    Todd, medieval sources from XIII century Castille specifically mention that the glues used for leather shields were *NOT* the common animal glues but _"engrudo de queso"_ ("cheese glue paste"), that is, medieval casein glue. Casein glues are far superior to common hide (collagen-based) glues. You might want to have this in mind if you wish to revisit this test.
    EDIT: (Source: MENENDEZ PIDAL, GONZALO, _La España del siglo XIII leida en imágenes,_ Real Academia de la Historia, Madrid, 1986.)

    • @davidroomes9087
      @davidroomes9087 Год назад +62

      Casein glue comes from milk, right? Milk, all by itself, is an excellent glue for sticking paper labels on glass. Perhaps it was milk that they boiled the leather in for armor. I would love to see a comparison of leather being boiled in different liquids and compared for final toughness: wax, water, oil, milk, fat, etc. Which one produces the best hardened leather armor?

    • @jancello
      @jancello Год назад +22

      That's known from other sources (like Theophilus) but is most likely meant for the glue to join the planks, not necessary for the facing.

    • @notfeedynotlazy
      @notfeedynotlazy Год назад +23

      @@jancello nope, specifically to glue the facing to the planks

    • @jancello
      @jancello Год назад +18

      @@notfeedynotlazy Oh, thanks. IIRC Theophilus suggests casein for the wood joining then hide glue for the facing.

    • @adifferentangle7064
      @adifferentangle7064 Год назад +30

      Casein would make sense, hide glue is not a good filler glue at all. It's strength comes from the physical connection between different surfaces, so if you have gaps it gets weaker.
      Not to mention if left in the weather for extended periods hide glue can break down and your knight could wake up one dewy morning to find his shield a sticky mess.

  • @daviddavidson2357
    @daviddavidson2357 Год назад +144

    I like how you wore the big sandblasting helmet every time you dealt with the glass except for the time when glass powder was going everywhere.

    • @AllanMacMillan
      @AllanMacMillan Год назад +8

      I noticed that as well. Fortunately for Todd, glass is amorphous not crystalline, so the body can get the dust out the lungs. If this were a dust of a crystalline solid like some sort of rock dust it would have been more worrisome.

    • @ShiningDarknes
      @ShiningDarknes Год назад +19

      @@ProperlyParanoid yeah that guy is being way too optimistic, glass, that is to say crudely crushed glass, is nothing but jagged edges. He even mentioned he could feel his hands getting loads of tiny cuts... yeah those tiny cuts on the skin, that will also happen to your raspatory system if you inhale glass dust from crudely crushed glass, this isn't like glassworks recycled glass that has been churned against itself which causes it to become thoroughly blunted, he put some glass in a tube and crushed it to powder, not nearly enough to blunt the hundreds of thousands of tiny glass knives that creates.

    • @daviddavidson2357
      @daviddavidson2357 Год назад +7

      @@ProperlyParanoid Yeah the structure and particle size matters. It's why asbestos dust is much more harmful than silica dust.
      You can still get silicosis however.

    • @AllanMacMillan
      @AllanMacMillan Год назад

      @@ProperlyParanoid As I understand it, it does matter, but the how isn't well understood.

    • @wonderboy2402
      @wonderboy2402 Год назад

      Amazing they used glass.

  • @MrBandholm
    @MrBandholm Год назад +169

    Videos like this, is really what sets you appart from the rest of RUclips... Stuff like this, will end up being reference material for future historians!

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +25

      Thank you

    • @rexbarron4873
      @rexbarron4873 Год назад +1

      Ummm...no it wont. etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/3919/1/Thom_Richardson_thesis_final.pdf

    • @pRahvi0
      @pRahvi0 Год назад +9

      @@rexbarron4873 Care to elaborate, since I'm not opening random PDFs on the internet? If it's publicly available, can you just point out the doi or ISBN number or something? If it's not, are you actually allowed to distribute it this way?

    • @jonathanh761
      @jonathanh761 Год назад +14

      ​@@rexbarron4873 wow you really got him with that one! A paper that has absolutely nothing to do with the context of the OP's comment. Good stuff rex.

    • @rexbarron4873
      @rexbarron4873 Год назад +4

      @@jonathanh761 The longbow as we know it did not exist when leather armour was all the rage.
      Only after 1310 do there start to be any records describing 6' bows with yard-long arrows; a Court crime record describes one used in a murder case in 1314. Depictions of 6' bows drawn to the ear, in full-scale longbow fashion, appear in the Luttrell Psalter of about 1330, and most graphically and accurately in the Smithfield Decretals manuscript of 1340.
      Arrowheads surviving from prior to 1300 have sockets 0.3" to 0.35" wide; arrowheads from the longbow era, 1330s onward, have sockets 0.45" to 0.5" wide, designed for larger and heavier arrows and warheads. It is clear that a major scaling-up of bow design took place between 1300 and about 1320, bringing it up to a weapon capable (with strength and practice) of shooting much heavier arrows with much heavier and more lethal warheads.
      No leather shields were found in Tower of London inventories of the period
      Shooting a bodkin tipped Tudor arrow at 165fps at shield last used in the 12th century is visually exciting but inconclusive. A bit like a Javelin missile against a Sherman tank

  • @macgonzo
    @macgonzo Год назад +175

    One thing i would REALLY like to see is a recreation of the Celtic bark shield that was found a few years back, and have it tested.

    • @ethanpeeler3147
      @ethanpeeler3147 Год назад +10

      Never heard of this that sounds cool

    • @mostlygreen1
      @mostlygreen1 Год назад +5

      One has been done, but I can't remember whether it was by Tod or not.

    • @poppymason-smith1051
      @poppymason-smith1051 Год назад +5

      @@mostlygreen1 Digging for Britain briefly featured attempts at making one? but they didnt test it far as I can remember

    • @macgonzo
      @macgonzo Год назад +3

      @@poppymason-smith1051 I remember seeing a short clip of them doing it, but I'd like to hear what Tod thinks, etc. I don't think he's tried it, but I could be wrong...

    • @poppymason-smith1051
      @poppymason-smith1051 Год назад +6

      @@macgonzo I remember they were just figuring out you needed to have all sides tensioned and braced while it dried out, otherwise it would curl up. which I thought seemed pretty obvious tbh, being wood and also a soaked material. Hopefully someone or Tod looks into it more. I'm not sure if it was celtic or bronze age thinking back? but bronze cuts worse than steel or iron so could have been fine back then.

  • @ModernKnight
    @ModernKnight Год назад +2

    superb find of that text, and fascinating experiment. makes me rethink cuirbouilli horse armour.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +1

      Thanks Jason, I think it was really a very good material, I just think it is not generally done right

  • @medusa1147
    @medusa1147 Год назад +42

    Since the bottom half of your shield was empty in the video, it might be interesting to do a layer of the double leather and glue, but skip the glass and iron on that section. Then during testing you could compare the two and see if the glass/iron mixture actually helps, or if all the extra strength just comes from the leather

  • @JosefGustovc
    @JosefGustovc Год назад +85

    Cool! One of the paveses in a German museum (can't remember wich, sorry) actually has crushed iron ore in it's covering. Bichler did a reproduction and shot at it with a crossbow. Similar concept to that English recipe =). I'll post the link here when I find it!

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +23

      Thanks Augusto I will check it out

    • @JosefGustovc
      @JosefGustovc Год назад

      @@tods_workshop Found it! But text is in german =(. ruclips.net/video/G2Rl9DLUfao/видео.html

    • @AggelosKyriou
      @AggelosKyriou Год назад +7

      @@tods_workshop It's still up in his channel Medieval Crossbows with the title "Shooting a 1200 lb composite crossbow" 3:21 seconds starting with the recipe for the pavise

  • @ArgonZavious
    @ArgonZavious Год назад +171

    I think the brass mortar is important. A mortar would create blunted glass balls and not shards. would make it much more pleasant to use. The actual shape of the particles in a mixture can affect the properties.

    • @madmanthepope6448
      @madmanthepope6448 Год назад +13

      Also, get a large piece of cloth and put the glass balls inside to pound into a fine powder finish with a grinder like you would grain or motor and pestle.

    • @andrewsock1608
      @andrewsock1608 Год назад +41

      I think it is to allow the glass to dig into the mortar and that allows it to be crushed finely without chunks like Todd got.
      The brass traces will also help protect the glue and leather from insects ,bacteria and mould. The glass is probably used to dull edges and stop the glue from cracking. Same reason they add sand to clay when making pottery. If there is no sand the pot cracks when it dries.
      Glad I could answers all these questions for the modern experts😉😂🤣

    • @2adamast
      @2adamast Год назад +11

      Simply using sand?

    • @Arachnoid_of_the_underverse
      @Arachnoid_of_the_underverse Год назад +10

      Just a thought, but these could be swapped out with glass beads as used in high pressure cleaning

    • @daviddavidson2357
      @daviddavidson2357 Год назад +5

      Yeah, I would assume the glass would need to be dull, you aren't going to work with something that shreds your hands after making two or three shields.
      Glass beads used in composite plastic manufacture could work, or if you can get brass balls you could use those to ball mill the glass into powder.

  • @SlitherThing
    @SlitherThing Год назад +16

    The things people have tried when it comes to composite materials are always interesting. Fandabi Dozi just had a video recently where they tested 3 different construction methods for the Scottish Targe against musket balls, and some of them included a layer of wool between the layers of wood. Fascinating stuff!

    • @2bingtim
      @2bingtim Год назад +2

      Great stuff SlitherThing. Do you have a link to that please?

    • @SlitherThing
      @SlitherThing Год назад

      @@2bingtim Sorry about the wait, here you are: ruclips.net/video/Q1kdBDNnd3U/видео.html

    • @markiobook8639
      @markiobook8639 Год назад

      In the text "Conservation of Leather and Related Materials": Kite & Thomson: Routldge (2006) pp94-96: postillon boots used heated colophony pine resin, bees wax, and p98 details pitch being used on the raw flesh side. Apparently the "pitching technique" used for carriage boots was accurately duplicated from: De Garsault (1767) "Art du Cordonnier" in Arts du Coir (1984) Geneva, Slatkine.

  • @lukaslambs5780
    @lukaslambs5780 Год назад +38

    Combining rigid hardness with tear resistant, shock absorbing material is the best combo for any sort of armor, modern or ancient!

  • @tamago3131992
    @tamago3131992 Год назад +1

    Setting everything aside, I just love the fact that the only thing you "advertise" is your own hardwares, no sponsorship, no advertisement, it's really rare these day on yt.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +2

      Thanks and fortunately I can use YT to support the business rather than relying on income from YT which is vary variable and ultimately not much at my scale

  • @billmiller4972
    @billmiller4972 Год назад +20

    Hypothesis: The iron filings will not only blunt sharp edges just as the glass but contain iron-ions on their surface that will form metallocomplexes with the aminoacids in the glue, thus crosslinking everything with quite strong bonds.

  • @eirikronaldfossheim
    @eirikronaldfossheim Год назад +56

    There is an interesting text from Heimskringla on arrows penetrating shields. It is Magnus Erlingsson saga, chapter 40, the Fall of Nikolas. It happened in 1177.
    "... the Birchlegs went and filled the whole courtyard and then went to the upper loft from all sides. They shouted to each other. The Birchlegs offered Nikolas quarter, but he refused. After that they fought. Nikolas and his men defended themselves with bowshots and handshots and stones from the chimney, but the Birchlegs knocked down the buildings and shot as often as they could. Nikolas had a red shield with gilt studs in it and stars on it, a hiálms made. *The Birchlegs shot so that the arrows stuck in as far as the binding of the heads.* Nikolas spoke: ‘The shield is now proving false to me.’ There Nikolas fell and a large part of his company..."
    Just that last part about arrow penetration, "The Birchlegs shot so that the arrows stuck in as far as the binding of the heads."
    "Nicolás hafdi raudan skiölld, oc gylltir naglar í, oc stirnd hiálms-giörd á. Birkibeinar skuto sva uppi stód á reyr-böndunum."

    • @rexbarron4873
      @rexbarron4873 Год назад

      A bittbefore the 14th century longbow which is different animal altogether

    • @Knoloaify
      @Knoloaify Год назад +17

      ​@@rexbarron4873 Longbows from the 3rd century have been found in Scandinavia. Since they were self-bows (bow made from a single piece of wood using the natural qualities of the wood), they were most likely no different from the ones used during the 14th century. In fact the Royal Armouries state the following: "In addition, a 2 m (6 ½ ft)-long Viking bow from the 10th century, found in Hedeby, is almost identical to those 16th-century longbows found on Henry VIII's sunken warship The Mary Rose."
      So the bows in this extract from the Heimskringla were probably identical to the "English" longbows.

    • @jancello
      @jancello Год назад +7

      @@Knoloaify The principle and material of the bows was the same but the poundage was in general lower (more in the 70-90# range rather than 110-160). Which implies lower penetration. The surprising element is that the heads have binding, which is reminiscent of the construction of earlier, tanged arrowheads (which were the most common type in the Viking Age but not before and not after). A mention in the Heimskringla would prove that they were kept in use longer...

    • @eirikronaldfossheim
      @eirikronaldfossheim Год назад +16

      @@jancello The complet hedeby bow is 4 cm wide, 3.3 cm deep and 191 cm long and _could_ have been as heavy as 130lb at 28 in, depending on the elastisity of the wood.

    • @another3997
      @another3997 Год назад +2

      The world is a big place, and mankind has been around a long time, so it's almost inevitable that most variations and combinations of armour have been tried somewhere, at some time. The availability of materials and (relatively) local knowledge, means that multiple variations would exist in isolation in different locations. Each would be considered a "good" method if it improved protection, until they found something even better. Today we have the benefit of hindsight and a few thousand years of shared learning to draw upon... and we still can't agree on what's "best".

  • @edwardbear3683
    @edwardbear3683 Год назад +18

    An amazing example of composite leather armor! I never even knew such a recipe existed! I already can't wait to see the tests done against such tough-looking stuff.

  • @jamesfrankiewicz5768
    @jamesfrankiewicz5768 Год назад +2

    Some time ago, ThegnThrand did a video on making a viking round shield (center-bossed), with near-authentic materials. He used a homemade "cheese glue", but he filtered milk instead of using moldy, leftover cheese. It was leather-covered (as with your shield), but only a single-layer each side, but no fancy "additives" to the glue. Even with that construction, it was pretty darn resilient.
    Also, ThegnThrand is producing videos again!

    • @2bingtim
      @2bingtim Год назад +1

      That was an amazing result. But it was rawhide rather than tanned leather he used to cover, front & back, the shield. Tremendously effective. The 6mm pine wood just served as the "skeleton" to support the rawhide as it dried.

  • @T0ghar
    @T0ghar Год назад +5

    Part of my work is selling those 3M Versaflow mask and filter systems to the automotive repair industry. Even though it is worse for the audio recording for the video, I recommend keeping the mask on with activated fan or using a textile FFP3 mask when applying fine and hazardous materials on things like the shield.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +1

      Thanks and for the record for anyone out there - these masks are amazing and worth every penny

  • @tomp6548
    @tomp6548 Год назад +6

    There must be something to that crushed glass mixture; here's a reference to making Persian rawhide armor: "When dry, four layers of a special glue compound were applied to the surface of each plate, allowing drying-time between each coat. This ‘glue’ included granules of red copper and crushed corundite (emery), as well as two other substances that have not yet been identified by translators" - Mike Loades, The Composite Bow. I also recall references to crushed rock being used instead, off the top of my head

    • @morgansmith1930
      @morgansmith1930 Год назад +1

      That's so cool! Shot in the dark, but crushed sandstone would contain a lot of silica - basically glass. It's so neat to know that leather armor is actually a thing!

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +4

      Marble was part of that mix too I think - there is a full translation of the Arabic in these comments somewhere

  • @skiffelinmedia
    @skiffelinmedia Год назад +9

    It says 'spear or edged tool', I don't think arrows fall into either category. I imagine its talking about a thrusted spear or some kind of sword. Can't wait to see the next video anyway...love your work Tod

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +1

      I will test other things too, it was just that a 'regular'; shield is not that great against arrows I wanted to see

  • @bobthegoat7090
    @bobthegoat7090 Год назад +2

    It is amazing how Tod can make something he has never done before, yet he still looks like a master craftsman that has done it for decades.

  • @fastenbauer
    @fastenbauer Год назад +3

    Tod just cutting the leather instead of throwing it all out and starting all over, is actually a nice call back to the previous videos about the quality of craftsmanship. Just doing the quick and easy solution probably is exactly what a craftsman back then would have done.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +3

      Probably as in fact it would be covered and nobody would know, but we just have to discount any hits on exactly that area

  • @cristianespinal9917
    @cristianespinal9917 Год назад +1

    I first remember reading about leather shields in /The Iliad/. I looked it up to refresh my memory, and Ajax's tower shield was made up of a bronze base layer, 7 layers of ox-hide taken from 7 bulls, and topped with an outermost layer of bronze. In Ajax's duel with Hector, Hector throws his spear at Ajax. The 7th layer of leather is the one that stopped Hector's spear.

  • @mountaindave01
    @mountaindave01 Год назад +2

    the plains tribes of American natives used to make rawhide layered shields that were so tough that they were said to repel musket balls. they didn't use the filling mixture, but they did, to the best of my recollection, use natural glue.

  • @TheLoveTruffle
    @TheLoveTruffle Год назад +2

    Very cool that you've gone back to the cuir bouilli and covered shields with the questions those raised in earlier videos. This was an entertaining video and I can't wait to see the results!

  • @sepeck2
    @sepeck2 Год назад +6

    This is neat. Having used the wax method for armor 20 years ago, I kind of want to try this glue method now.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +7

      It is fabulous and it has so many decorating benefits too.

  • @jonathanbridgstock4033
    @jonathanbridgstock4033 Год назад +4

    Very cool, can’t wait to see the rest of the process and the testing.
    Also, requesting “cooking with tod” 😅

  • @Daylon91
    @Daylon91 Год назад +4

    Us native Americans made Buffalo hide shields that when held at the right angle could deflect musket balls. Both the Sioux and Comanche had these shields and said their shields protected them so men would aim low to kill the horse or go under the shield

  • @Dagonius.
    @Dagonius. Год назад +3

    In Germany, someone taking far too long to get their job done, is called a "Leimsieder" (pronounced almost like: "laim seeder", which means "glue boiler".
    Because you have to keep an eye on the glue at all times, heat it up very very slowly and can't leave it on it's own, otherwise it will overheat and be spoiled...
    Bit too late for this information, isn't it?! LOL
    Thanks for your awesome work!😘

  • @SasoriZert
    @SasoriZert Год назад +3

    Tod the amount of effort and love you put into yours videos is evident in each everyone. The fact you are not only such a skilled craftsman but have such passion and love for the history of your work and bring that to us to watch and learn from I praise you my guy your a true legend.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +3

      Thank you, that is very kind and the bottom line is that I enjoy it

    • @SasoriZert
      @SasoriZert Год назад

      @@tods_workshop I'm so glad you do enjoy it Tod it's evident that you do cause of how excited you get when testing things out it makes me want be right there helping you. Please never lose your drive for this kinda work you are an inspiration for us all to find work we all enjoy to do in life.

  • @beezo2560
    @beezo2560 Год назад +2

    Fascinating Tod. The glass and metal powder was totally unknown to me. Thanks for the upload.

  • @benmiller3358
    @benmiller3358 Год назад +4

    For future reference, if you want to make powdered glass (or anything similar to that) in the future, use a steel ball mill (used in mining). Very quick, very efficient but VERY loud.

  • @molochi
    @molochi Год назад +1

    Saw a neat video yesterday testing 3 differently (all very nicely) designed Scottish targes against a couple of period 18th century firearms at close range. these were made with two layers of wood planks aligned perpendicularly to the grain and covered in leather with studs. One of the designs sandwiched a layer of felt between softwood planks and was able to prevent a 69 caliber charleville's musket round from getting through enough of the time to be notable as effective. This, of course, isn't a medieval shield but it is interesting as an illustration of what level of protection could be generated when people put their minds to it.

  • @ericmitchell985
    @ericmitchell985 Год назад +4

    Really looking forward to seeing what this does! Just to echo everyone else, I'd love to know how much weight this adds in the end. Cheers!

  • @joshuadarling7439
    @joshuadarling7439 Год назад +1

    One of my favorite RUclips channels. A man just testing different ways to not die. Classic. ❤

  • @JoramTriesGaming
    @JoramTriesGaming Год назад +4

    The first thing I thought on seeing the glass-coated leather was "this looks like roofing felt" - can imagine it felt similar.

  • @StevieB8363
    @StevieB8363 Год назад +1

    This is awesome! The practical experiments and testing of historic weapons and armour that most of us can only wonder about. And that "recipe" is somewhat vague as to proportions, times, temperatures - I'm sure there are many variations that would need to be tried to achieve the best result. But the basic concept seems promising. Many thanks Tod for putting in the effort to bring history to life and show us how things worked centuries ago.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +1

      Thanks and yes a great deal of testing would be required to perfect it, but all I can hope for is to show that it has a significant effect but perhaps not the maximum effect

    • @StevieB8363
      @StevieB8363 Год назад +1

      e@@tods_workshop I don't doubt that it will give additional protection. But it's worth noting that the weapons and armour used in historical times had been used for CENTURIES! Literally hundreds of years of real-world experience, and experimentation by blacksmiths and similar. Furthermore, the spread of information was much more limited back then. Most people were illiterate, so knowledge spread through word of mouth - which drastically limited the number of people who could be informed.
      Additionally, insider knowledge like this would have been confined to the trades who used it, and even then, a craftsman who had a good method for making armour would have strong incentive to keep that knowledge to himself. There are doubtless many "trade secrets" that have been discovered and lost because there was no single library that made this information availible.
      While I greatly admire your efforts to experiment with historical weapons, we both know that you can't replicate centuries of trial and error within a couple of months. But your real-world testing and documentation provide a valuable insight into the past.

  • @retovideogames
    @retovideogames Год назад +4

    What a great composite armour! Tough, lightweight and what I think, due to the layer of glass shards / powder and metal filings, very abrasive to any edged tool. I am very curious to see how quickly sharp implements get blunt when hitting that layer. Wonderful work as always!

  • @thefatefulforce8887
    @thefatefulforce8887 Год назад +2

    Brilliant as always Tod.
    I will soon be conducting a personal experiment on my channel, testing arrows against a shield as well.
    I will be using an 87lb and 100lb bow. The Poplar shield is 10mm thick. So lighter bows than Tod's lockdown longbow as well as a bit thinner shield.
    The purpose of this test is to gather additional data on the effectiveness of different arrow types and add those data points to the conversation
    The arrows I will be using include heads made by Will Sherman and Hector Cole, such as Type 9's, Crecy Warbodkins, Type 7's, and Type 10's.
    Again brilliant work Tod.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +3

      Thanks for letting me know and will watch out for it

  • @GofuKyersen
    @GofuKyersen Год назад +5

    Could you use Quartz sand rather than glass? contains about 20% iron I think.

  • @toddgreener
    @toddgreener Год назад +1

    omg, I'm only 2 minutes in and I've never been more excited for a Tod's Workshop video. I'm SO INTERESTED

  • @osarkthegoat7038
    @osarkthegoat7038 Год назад +23

    this is the second time this week i have come across a reference to this recipe. a tiny channel called Malcom P.L. made a small armor panel from the same recipe and tested it out. (ruclips.net/video/itlVWINumiU/видео.html)
    he also made a suit of native American wooden armor, which is quite interesting.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +10

      I will check it out

    • @ME_YA4P
      @ME_YA4P Год назад +6

      Malcolm is a great guy and knows his stuff.

    • @osarkthegoat7038
      @osarkthegoat7038 Год назад +4

      @@ME_YA4P yep. i came across him last Sunday, and basically spent the entire day binge-watching his channel. his essay on back shields was especially interesting.

    • @russmitchellmovement
      @russmitchellmovement Год назад

      @@tods_workshopDavid Nicolle also references similar recipes in "A Companion to Medieval Arms and Armor."

  • @ptonpc
    @ptonpc Год назад +1

    Welcome back to the Lockdown Longbow! The explanation for 'boiled leather' armour makes sense.
    I watched a video by Fandabi Dozi a few days ago where they tested different methods of making targes. One had wool between the layers as a form of protection against musket balls.

  • @bryangrote8781
    @bryangrote8781 Год назад +4

    Leather can be amazingly strong if treated the right way so this is very interesting.
    On a related topic, I've wondered for a long time about how effective leather shields used by various indigenous tribes such as the American Indian and African tribes were at stopping edged weapons, arrows, or even bullets. I've read a few accounts that claimed the shields carried by American Plains Indian tribes were able to deflect arrows and even bullets at times and were usually made of hardened buffalo hide.
    One such account I recall is in "The Last Captive", the memoirs of Hermann Lehman who was captured as a boy by the Lipan Apaches in the Texas Hill Country in the early 1870s. He later also joined the Comanches in Quanah Parker's tribe (very unusual as these tribes were mortal enemies) near the end of the Indian Wars, soon after which he was re-captured. After he (mostly) adapted to rejoining White society again he spoke of his experiences after his capture which were recorded by a biographer. This biography has been reprinted, revised, and re-titled at least 3 times, the above version being the most recent and which also includes quite a bit of original research in the footnotes by the author or this addition (A.C. Greene).
    At any rate, Lehmann claimed that the rawhide shields they used did in fact deflect arrows and even bullets shot at him on more than one occasion (but not always IIRC). He also described the technique used to make the shields using buffalo rawhide. I believe the rawhide was hardened using buffalo brains, urine, a type of glue made from the hooves and a heating technique and I think they may also have been multi-layered, but I don't recall the exact method he described. I tend to believe that at least if hit at an oblique angle that perhaps these shields could have in fact deflected arrows and bullets under some conditions as some of the techniques he described sounds similar to what you did in this video.
    Your channel is the only place I've seen that has actually tested the effectiveness of leather shields or armor so I really appreciate your work on this topic (as well as all the others you've covered). First rate and unique work as always!

    • @mysticonthehill
      @mysticonthehill Год назад +2

      Also the Spanish have many interesting comments on leather armor made by the natives during their time when guns were less common. Essential they were made of 6-8 layers of leather usual bison or elk hide. Similar to what Todd is doing here it was repeatedly faced with glue and then sand or fine rock dust several times. You can see very simple depictions of this armor in rock paintings in the Midwest.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +3

      Thanks - I didn't think of that and thanks for bringing it to my attention

  • @unclebob540i3
    @unclebob540i3 Год назад +2

    This is fantastic stuff. An exercise in period composites. As a materials geek I am fascinated. Can't wait for the testing!

  • @billp3337
    @billp3337 Год назад +7

    It's amazing how Tod makes worn out work clothes look cool.

    • @cammobunker
      @cammobunker Год назад

      A master craftsman and scholar, educating the RUclips masses while looking homeless. Truly a Renaissance man indeed. Somebody make him a leather apron!

    • @derstoffausdemderjoghurtis
      @derstoffausdemderjoghurtis Год назад

      He doesn't even wears his legendary sweatshirt jacket in this one^^

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +4

      Hoodie is still not dead and will come back out this winter. It has failed to die

  • @Brandeena233
    @Brandeena233 Год назад

    Genuinely one of my favorite channels on RUclips.

  • @someidiot6545
    @someidiot6545 Год назад +2

    RIP for the shield maker who had to follow this recipe before fume hoods were invented.

  • @jvin248
    @jvin248 Год назад +1

    Another option may be quartz-heavy sand plus 'black sands' (iron heavy sand, magnet can sort out), both found on various beeches. The quartz provides the hard-but-brittle component like modern ceramic armor plates while the iron heavy black sands provides the ductile toughness.

  • @Disgruntled_Dave
    @Disgruntled_Dave Год назад +18

    Seeing that glass powder wafting up in the air was truly scary. I'm glad you were wearing that helmet/mask for that.
    Also, here's to hoping Shad sees this and makes an Underappreciated Medieval or Fantasy Rearmed video on it. I think we all knew leather could get hard, but I had no idea just _how_ hard.

    • @ilari90
      @ilari90 Год назад +3

      He didn't, when he spread it on, I was wheezing watching that.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +3

      Yeah, I was too. I didn't realise it was so much in the air until I watched the film

  • @davidroomes9087
    @davidroomes9087 Год назад +2

    Another fantastic video, Tod. I love seeing these actual experiments in medieval craftsmanship. Can't wait to see the final product stand up against different types of arrowheads. Also, curious what the weight of the final shield is. Finally, thanks to Jenny for helping out.

  • @RaccKing21
    @RaccKing21 Год назад +4

    Oh look, it's medieval Chobham armor!

  • @RyanWolfNZ
    @RyanWolfNZ Год назад

    Tod have you thought about a podcast? I think it would be a massive winner. Speaking with guests about all the same things you’re doing here but the luxury of even more depth. Absolutely love this channel. Cheers

  • @LuisAldamiz
    @LuisAldamiz Год назад +3

    Looks like it will work: the medieval theory seems solid to me.
    Also you clarified a question I had about boiled leather: cooking does not make things tougher (all the opposite unless you burn them maybe) but cooking in glue... that's a wholly different thing.

  • @cgamejewels
    @cgamejewels Год назад

    I was able to read the whole thing without the modern translation. I love it. He forgot the "e" on the first syde, but he corrected it on the second. Spelling is important. I need to learn how to write like this.

  • @TheUncleRuckus
    @TheUncleRuckus Год назад +4

    They might have mixed the glass and iron filings in with the glue so they didn't have to deal with the issues you encountered. Can't wait to see this in a future video. 👍👍

  • @MrTankton
    @MrTankton Год назад +1

    This might actually work well. If you think about modern body armor, there is also a tough (kevlar) and a hard (ceramic plate) layer. The tough part slows/catches while the hard layer distributes the impact. I have a feeling this leather works as kevlar, while the glass/iron/glue mix works as a ceramic plate.

  • @QuartzChrysalis
    @QuartzChrysalis Год назад +3

    I always want to remind everyone that a shield is not to protect you from all harm, it is to keep you from dying. If the arrows pierce through your shield into your arm they haven't gone into your head, chest or belly. You have been maimed, you might even be crippled, but you aren't dead.

  • @jc-d6179
    @jc-d6179 Год назад +1

    We used a thick pvc sack for smashing glass prior to ball milling for composites at AERE Harwell.

  • @jasond1433
    @jasond1433 Год назад

    Here in America, there are many stories of Sioux and Comanche buffalo hide shields being effective against old flintlock style firearms, until Colt Walkers and Winchester repeaters came on the scene and rendered them obsolete. As an example, Sitting Bull is rumored to have deflected a shot with his shield during a duel with a Crow chief when he was a young man. Interesting video!

  • @charlesbrelaud985
    @charlesbrelaud985 Год назад

    Thanks for sharing your passion, that's a really cool recipe to try, can't wait for the result ! have fun finishing it

  • @yunyng
    @yunyng Год назад +1

    I think the glass and iron filings are to add something hard to the outside of the shield, which can blunt arrows and spear tips.

  • @wellywanderer
    @wellywanderer Год назад

    Awesome experiment. I love the use of an original "recipe" - fascinating

  • @tapioperala3010
    @tapioperala3010 Год назад

    Commenting at 16:23, and to be honest, I think that double-leather with the iron-glass mix in between makes a lot of difference :O

  • @Erikreaver
    @Erikreaver Год назад

    Oh goodness, this is going to be good. And goodness, that sounds horrible to work with, but the reasoning is sound. To me the flesh side is less smooth, and I think it will take the coating better. As for the glass, I am so glad you used a mask. Also wondering if you could use fine sand. My thinking is that the glass, being harder than iron, is going to dull whatever is poking into the shield and make going through harder for the weapon, same as mail over a gambeson in your earlier videos. As for the iron filings though, I've no idea. It sounds like it will be tough as an old boot and worse, even just basic old rawhide soaked in hot water dries into something resembling hard plastic! I am so looking forward to the finished thing, and thank you for the sacrifices you make for our entertainment and education!

  • @tjingdjong9036
    @tjingdjong9036 Месяц назад

    There is a similar recipe described in 1784 (随筆・貞丈雑記) called "nerikawa", which is said to be cowhide that has been roasted over a fire, or soaked in water that is mixed with glue, and then hardened by beating it. There are several surviving helmets for example made with such leather.

  • @axistec
    @axistec Год назад +1

    I appreciate your effort in bringing amazing content for us, even bleeding with glass powder. Can't wait for the following shooting test video!

  • @Terry-n1i
    @Terry-n1i 2 месяца назад

    Glass, especially old style glass, is pure sand.. im retired truck driver, i use to deliver, 51,000lbs , 3 to 4 times a week, to a glass factory in Arkansas.. i was always fascinated with how easy it was to make glass. The whole process.. anyway, im thinking using fine sand, would work just fine, for this recipe. Dont think youd need to pulverize glass.. great vid!! Thanks

  • @jansenart0
    @jansenart0 Год назад +1

    So happy you went and got a second pair of hands!

  • @markiobook8639
    @markiobook8639 Год назад +1

    To reinforce what @notfeedynotlazy said- Casein glue was common for half-timber houses as a protective stain for the wood (vs lime) and casein was used in lime whitewash (there is also a castle recipe that includes lard- source Mike Haduck: Conwy Castle- a Welsh restoration worker around minute mark 6:10). Quark or cottage cheese + lime= an excellent glue and waterproofing. The exact recipe is in the documentary "How to restore half-timbering | SWR Handwerkskunst" circa minute mark 27:00 about 2 tbs slaked lime to a 300g-ish tub of quark.

  • @flyboymike111357
    @flyboymike111357 Год назад +1

    Curious if you've seen Fandabidozi's recent tests on targe shields against muzzleloaded firearms. Shield tests seem to be a passion of yours. And I vaguely recall you wondering about the efficacy of the targe when you tested conventional shields against a longbow.

  • @Bdeslaurs
    @Bdeslaurs Год назад +1

    Hello, if people are complaining about your shield being rubbish because they are penetrated by the arrows you use, maybe an interesting test to do after doing this video would be to test different bows next. I think it might be the last step now that you have done all this. I haven't watch all the videos so you might have already done it, most of the time I see your crossbow fit to represent the Longbow strength so maybe my proposition would settle some disagreements.
    Also thx very much for all the transparency of your work, there's nothing I love more than actual empirical data.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +2

      Thanks and I will shoot this one with both the 160lbs and 120lbs simulators and leave the bottom half of the shield just covered in parchment and see the difference

  • @zantakio
    @zantakio Год назад

    "This is what I do for you."
    And we really appreciate you for it! Thank you for so many interesting videos.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +1

      a pleasure - without you I probably wouldn't do so much and certainly would not read all the amazing comments and get ideas for videos

  • @line8124
    @line8124 Год назад +1

    Always a good time when Tod releases a video.

  • @krissteel4074
    @krissteel4074 Год назад +2

    My guess is the iron and glass grit might serve a purpose to both stop it slipping around during the forming process and perhaps adding some sort of composite layer that adds impact resistance.

    • @jlasud
      @jlasud Год назад +4

      I think the powder mixture should grip all steel and iron blades,points, with abrasive force, particularly useful with arrowheads, limiting their penetrating ability. As a bonus,it might dull edged weapons a bit faster than without it.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +3

      I think jlasud has it

    • @krissteel4074
      @krissteel4074 Год назад

      @@jlasud Its comparatively non-ductile in how it would transfer energy, so it would prevent that going into the second layer of leather closest to the wood behind it.
      So if they're not using it as a 'filler' to cut down on glue use or improve the contact properties in a composite, there's some mechanical property they're looking for.
      Composites are a bit out of my pay grade though :)

  • @mandowarrior123
    @mandowarrior123 Год назад

    I think that is a great source find, opens the door to many techniques.

  • @elijahsanders3547
    @elijahsanders3547 Год назад

    This is exciting! Can't wait for the next episode :) Thank you.

  • @HereticalKitsune
    @HereticalKitsune Год назад +1

    Oh, this is a fascinating idea! Medieval composite armor, super cool!

  • @phillipallen3259
    @phillipallen3259 Год назад

    I believe you hit the nail on the head! That is a composite shield. Not at all strikingly different from the body armor used today and considered high tech. It boggles the mind how this technique and technology was forgotten. If the compounds were adjusted over the years, the combat losses throughout history may have been dramatically reduced!

  • @BasMeek
    @BasMeek 8 месяцев назад +1

    I sort of feel like if you listened to this 'recipe' while you were in the kitchen, you'd end up with a completely edible meal.

  • @euansmith3699
    @euansmith3699 Год назад

    A teaser trailer for "Man Shoots Shield 2"? Count me in. Tod's experimental videos are always cool.

  • @jaffa726
    @jaffa726 Год назад

    This video had me eyes glued to the screen (no pun intended) super fascinating.

  • @rodneymiddleton1044
    @rodneymiddleton1044 Год назад

    Keeping an eye out for part 2 Tod, stay safe.

  • @just.another.guy.2343
    @just.another.guy.2343 Год назад +1

    Todd! What a wonderful opportunity; speaking of your merch, I want to buy one of your kitchen knives/cleaver for my father, he loves cooking, but I would like to know if you have shipping available for Mexico!
    I'd be really fortunate to have this replied, gonna enjoy the video during my lunch at work :)

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +1

      Thanks and drop the office an email and I am sure we can send to Mexico

  • @ungraa2149
    @ungraa2149 Год назад +1

    Yaaaay, this is wonderful. I cannot wait for you to shoot stuff at it. Please bring back the javelin guy to throw stuff at it as well

  • @andrewphillips6147
    @andrewphillips6147 Год назад +1

    Would be really interesting to see the other half the shield covered with just the leather - no glass/filings - to see the impact they have.

    • @tods_workshop
      @tods_workshop  Год назад +1

      I am actually going to just finish it in the normal way and see the comparison

  • @doppel5627
    @doppel5627 Год назад

    Dear Tod, there is something extraordinary in watching your videos. You awake a boy in a 53 years old man. Thank you for that!

  • @sciverzero8197
    @sciverzero8197 Год назад

    interesting recipe.. I haven't seen the tests yet but given the composition of the materials, this sounds like medieval _armored glass._ Armored glass or bulletproof glass, are two laminated sheets of a less durable material, with a type of gel glue between them, and the combination of the components makes the materials _hard_ and stiff, but with enough flex that the two layers can slide apart and de-laminate when significant force is applied, which absorbs large amounts of energy. It will eventually fail with successive strikes or trauma, but it significantly increases the strength of the base materials.

  • @m1k3y48
    @m1k3y48 Год назад +1

    Glue, glass, and iron filings sandwiched between leather sheets, it’s like ye olde composite armor. That’s so cool

  • @turtlewolfpack6061
    @turtlewolfpack6061 Год назад +1

    Multi layer but super light armor was a lot more common even in the age of bronze than most people realize. This is an intriguing project!

  • @MonkeysEmperor
    @MonkeysEmperor Год назад

    Primitive Technology and Tod's Workshop both keep me alive

  • @cammobunker
    @cammobunker Год назад +1

    I'm nearly certain that the "Brass Mortar" thing is very specific for a reason. For something from that time it was *very* specific about it.

    • @r.gilman4261
      @r.gilman4261 Год назад

      usually when I hear brass in conjunction with iron as a material, I think sparking as an issue...note they specify iron filings, not rust ( I assume in mideval times they have a way to differentiate between iron and iron oxide), as anyone can find on the series of RUclipss fine iron will combust ( as steel wool is wont to do)

  • @fostersstubbyasmr9557
    @fostersstubbyasmr9557 Год назад

    Omg I’ve been a blacksmith for 10 years and this is the video that finally taught me what boiled leather really is!
    Omg so much shrunk ill formed leather damn!!!
    Thankyou Todd!!

  • @elijahoconnell
    @elijahoconnell Год назад

    i remember reading that in the comments of the original video im quite excited to see you do it

  • @tomtruesdale6901
    @tomtruesdale6901 Год назад +1

    I wonder if sand could be used in place of the crushed glass? Looking forward to seeing the results of this test.

  • @tones7mca
    @tones7mca Год назад

    Another interesting vid, I look forward to seeing the results. If this technique works, I wonder how/if it could be applied to other types of leather armour, pauldrons, vambraces, grieves etc, and how effective it could be...

  • @sloth_e
    @sloth_e Год назад

    Ive been working with leather for a while now and do treatments with talow and wax and oil's and plain water and heat to harden and water proof leather. The key is to not use too much heat. Around 20 to 30°c over time is plenty. 50°c max. When you get up over 75°c prolonged, things start to warp and the leather can be ruined. You can use the high end temps if its applied amd removed periodically. Like using a heat gun. If in hot liquid or oven id go no higher than 50°c. Even then id keep an eye on it and remove and check fairly regularly.
    Id say the leather was applied quite stretched aswell. Ive found when i wet mould (stretching the leather over an item) and then dry infront of a standard electric heater, it becomes quite hard. Doung the same after a hot wax soak makes it very very hard.

  • @TheExalaber
    @TheExalaber Год назад

    If you ever want to do this again, ground glass can often be purchased from pottery supply stores because it is used in gaze formulation.

  • @Joe___R
    @Joe___R Год назад +1

    Even though their materials were primitive compared to what we have today. Our ancestors were far from primitive. They found ways to master the materials available and made ingenious use of it. There are not many surviving examples of most things made of natural materials since they decompose too quickly to survive burials. If I could change one thing about history that would be to make everything extensively well documented. If we could somehow never lose knowledge it would greatly improve humanity.

  • @mark.p9824
    @mark.p9824 Год назад

    Whilst to some it may seem that the powder is sort of an odd addition, in fact it's incredibly interesting. A very similar mechanism is used in modern battle tanks (like the challenger 2) for stopping kinetic energy penetrators. Namely a brittle ceramic plate is placed under stress between metal plates. When penetration occurs the ceramic fractures in an instance (speed of sound in the ceramic) and creates a highly abrasive powder which due to the high hardness of ceramics is much more efficient at grinding down the penetrator of the incoming APFSDS round.

  • @chrisj683
    @chrisj683 Год назад

    The brass utensils garner a lot of both compliments and curiosity.
    I do find myself defaulting to the spoon to eat foods like chop salads or cold noodles which I might ordinarily use a four-tined fork to eat.
    It can be planned around, though, so I typically only use them for pack lunches and do just that.