How is the rust recycled? That is the all-important question. Historically, carbon was used to reduce iron oxide into iron metal. But if you do that, then you have a carbon footprint. Can you electrolytically reduce the iron or reduce it by other means?
We have done this on purpose. In the coming years, the steelmaking industry and other metal industries will have to obtain their energy from renewable sources, because they are one of the most polluting industries in the world. That is why a lot of effort is put in and a lot of research is done on finding ways to reduce metal oxides (iron oxide in particular) to pure metal. Therefore, at this stage, we are primarily focussing on making the oxidation of iron work, extracting energy from the combustion process and scaling this up. In case you are interesed, check out the website of HYBRIT (www.hybritdevelopment.com/), they are building a pilot plant for steelmaking in a completely sustainable way. Moreover, the resulting 'sponge iron powder' in their reduction process is exactly the same kind of iron powder that is used in the video.
@@solid9469 so you folks have only covered the easy part. Then OH I have an additional part in your cycle; burn aluminium, or use aluminium to do a thermite reaction to gain back the Iron...or any other metal (magnesium etc). But thing is you only get deeper in to the energy well. In recycling it you also have to take care of that part, so there is nothing cyclic about your proces its just burning up stuff. Sorry this is not impressive enough. I would have been impressdIF you solved the entire cycle without using carbon. You are shifting the burden of the CO2 production to an other party and dont dare to touch it yourself. Thats no solution. The biggest challenge is in the Fe2O3 or Al2O3 part back to Fe and Al and oxygen. that would be impressive.
@@thewaytruthandlife They don't need the process to be 100% efficient. The biggest problem in energy right now is storing all the energy from solar panels. Even if this is less efficient than current batteries, the fact is that this is much cheaper, simpler, and more plentiful than current batteries. If your complaint is that it isn't perfect yet, then please go harass solar panel videos, because solar panels are also not working yet. California's brownouts are partly because of solar power not being there when its needed, and there being too much solar energy when it isn't needed. We need storage, even inefficient storage is better than no storage, or unaffordable storage that raises our electric bill. No one wants that.
I never considered iron engines. I was considering molten iron as an energy storage system, but not just burning it. Hmm. This could work. Its a tough market to break into, I hope you can do it, for all our sakes.
You can do this with hydrogen. The real issue is how to do this so the iron stays in powder form, becouse now you can use only byproduct from steel processing industries.
I feel like once you add the energy requirements to produce iron powder, gas to sustain ignition and electricity to power airflow fans or compressors this would work out to require about as much energy to run as it produces.
20 kw, but how much powder and for how long will it burn? And how is iron-oxide recycled? in powder or bulk form, bcs crushing is another demanding process.
Een vraag : Is het aantal "Rust" wat na het proces terugkomt evenveel als, voor het "heating" proces? Zo niet.. wat is de percentage die verloren gaat? ( Als ik vragen mag natuurlijk )
Is there any paper related to your work ,if so please share the link Is iron oxide carried all the way till heat is extracted and then to cyclone separator ,won't it clog the tubes of HE ?
Hi Sreeram! We did not write a paper ourselves about our research on burning iron powder. However, there are multiple papers written on burning metal fuels which you can search for online.
We use a lighter to ignite the flame and it keeps burning because of a pilotflame of methane. We hope we informed you enough, otherwise you can also send an e-mail to info@teamsolid.org for more explanations.
@@sreeramnair9439 We need a continous ignition to assure that the iron flame keeps burning and we don't get unburned powder into our system. The methane pilotflame does get ignited electrically.
sorry where is the part that Fe2O3 is returned to Fe and oxygen ??? that is still, to my knowledge, based on carbon burning.... right ?? so where is the CO2 free part ?? you could use Hydrogen and a lot of heat (burning hydrogen).. and hydrogen could be gained by solar power... so you're still stuck to solar or wind to remain CO2 free.
Rust can be reduced to iron powder by passing hydrogen gas through heated rust. The only byproduct is water vapor. (There's a couple youtubes showing this being done in lab demonstrations.)The hydrogen and heat would come from either solar farms or wind farms. Once you have the iron powder, it can be stored indefinitely and used whenever needed. It's basically a fuel. This completely solves the problem of sun and wind power being intermittent. You make the iron powder during the middle six hours of the day when the sun is shining most directly and you store the powder and burn it as fuel to produce electricity any time you need electricity, including all evening and night. The beauty of it is that there's no limit to how much iron powder you can store. Eventually huge stockpiles of it could be built up so that there could be, for example, a years worth of reserve fuel for a whole country. There're masses and masses of dirt cheap scrap steel everywhere that could be turned into a fuel supply.
Hey, greetings from Latvia. SuperB project👌👍
From COLOMBIA. Wonderful idea. We are stating in the production of iron powders👍🏻🇨🇴
Sir we can provide u a good quality and quantity of ci powder...
I have a handful of questions but not to be outdone by the sheer brilliance.
How is the rust recycled? That is the all-important question. Historically, carbon was used to reduce iron oxide into iron metal. But if you do that, then you have a carbon footprint. Can you electrolytically reduce the iron or reduce it by other means?
Arc furnace
You seem to have totally missed the part where iron oxide is reduced?
We have done this on purpose. In the coming years, the steelmaking industry and other metal industries will have to obtain their energy from renewable sources, because they are one of the most polluting industries in the world. That is why a lot of effort is put in and a lot of research is done on finding ways to reduce metal oxides (iron oxide in particular) to pure metal. Therefore, at this stage, we are primarily focussing on making the oxidation of iron work, extracting energy from the combustion process and scaling this up. In case you are interesed, check out the website of HYBRIT (www.hybritdevelopment.com/), they are building a pilot plant for steelmaking in a completely sustainable way. Moreover, the resulting 'sponge iron powder' in their reduction process is exactly the same kind of iron powder that is used in the video.
@@solid9469 so you folks have only covered the easy part. Then OH I have an additional part in your cycle; burn aluminium, or use aluminium to do a thermite reaction to gain back the Iron...or any other metal (magnesium etc). But thing is you only get deeper in to the energy well. In recycling it you also have to take care of that part, so there is nothing cyclic about your proces its just burning up stuff. Sorry this is not impressive enough. I would have been impressdIF you solved the entire cycle without using carbon. You are shifting the burden of the CO2 production to an other party and dont dare to touch it yourself. Thats no solution. The biggest challenge is in the Fe2O3 or Al2O3 part back to Fe and Al and oxygen. that would be impressive.
@@thewaytruthandlife They don't need the process to be 100% efficient. The biggest problem in energy right now is storing all the energy from solar panels. Even if this is less efficient than current batteries, the fact is that this is much cheaper, simpler, and more plentiful than current batteries. If your complaint is that it isn't perfect yet, then please go harass solar panel videos, because solar panels are also not working yet. California's brownouts are partly because of solar power not being there when its needed, and there being too much solar energy when it isn't needed. We need storage, even inefficient storage is better than no storage, or unaffordable storage that raises our electric bill. No one wants that.
Even if it is 70% it is still better than 0% of what the present fossil fuels are.
Seems you still need gas to ignite the iron powder? How does the oxide look once it has formed in terms of particle size for regenerability?
I never considered iron engines. I was considering molten iron as an energy storage system, but not just burning it. Hmm. This could work. Its a tough market to break into, I hope you can do it, for all our sakes.
Are you also making an animation which explains the whole proces? It is not very easy to see what is going on in there exactly.
Yeah just forget to mention that the conversion from rust to steel emits massive amounts of CO2...
You can do this with hydrogen. The real issue is how to do this so the iron stays in powder form, becouse now you can use only byproduct from steel processing industries.
I feel like once you add the energy requirements to produce iron powder, gas to sustain ignition and electricity to power airflow fans or compressors this would work out to require about as much energy to run as it produces.
Well, entropy to be damned! It's a storage medium not a perpetual motion machine.
Check out the Form Energy iron/air battery (July 2021) -- probably using the Solid method??
Keep up the good work...
Good initiative all the best ❤️
Clever.
Do u buy iron powder???
20 kw, but how much powder and for how long will it burn? And how is iron-oxide recycled? in powder or bulk form, bcs crushing is another demanding process.
1kg bithumous coal get 8,06 kWh
Interesting.....
What is the energy density of the iron powder compared to coal ?
So instead of coal powder burner you use iron?
I learned that you can use iron as fuel from Oxygen Candles.
Een vraag : Is het aantal "Rust" wat na het proces terugkomt evenveel als, voor het "heating" proces? Zo niet.. wat is de percentage die verloren gaat? ( Als ik vragen mag natuurlijk )
Hoi Joey! Natuurlijk mag je dat vragen. Ja dit is evenveel. Er gaat dus niets verloren!
i hope they can put this close circle system in cars, so we stop releasinc Co2
Cars suck. Mass transit is far more efficient. It would be dope as hell if old Diesel locomotives could be converted to run on this system.
Burning iron because we think that our current CO2 levels of 0.04% of total atmosphere is causing our weather problems...
Is there any paper related to your work ,if so please share the link
Is iron oxide carried all the way till heat is extracted and then to cyclone separator ,won't it clog the tubes of HE ?
Hi Sreeram! We did not write a paper ourselves about our research on burning iron powder. However, there are multiple papers written on burning metal fuels which you can search for online.
And you are right, in that order the tubes do get clogged. That is why we are now doing it the other way around.
What was the size of iron particles used ( micron or nano)
We are using micro particles.
And how were you able to ignite (igniter used )?
We use a lighter to ignite the flame and it keeps burning because of a pilotflame of methane. We hope we informed you enough, otherwise you can also send an e-mail to info@teamsolid.org for more explanations.
So, why did you opt for methane pilot ignition system instead of electric ignition system
@@sreeramnair9439 We need a continous ignition to assure that the iron flame keeps burning and we don't get unburned powder into our system. The methane pilotflame does get ignited electrically.
@@solid9469 so ,the dispersion medium .Isn't it the same as used in AJM .Could you provide more information regarding dispersion medium
sorry where is the part that Fe2O3 is returned to Fe and oxygen ??? that is still, to my knowledge, based on carbon burning.... right ?? so where is the CO2 free part ?? you could use Hydrogen and a lot of heat (burning hydrogen).. and hydrogen could be gained by solar power... so you're still stuck to solar or wind to remain CO2 free.
Rust can be reduced to iron powder by passing hydrogen gas through heated rust. The only byproduct is water vapor. (There's a couple youtubes showing this being done in lab demonstrations.)The hydrogen and heat would come from either solar farms or wind farms. Once you have the iron powder, it can be stored indefinitely and used whenever needed. It's basically a fuel. This completely solves the problem of sun and wind power being intermittent. You make the iron powder during the middle six hours of the day when the sun is shining most directly and you store the powder and burn it as fuel to produce electricity any time you need electricity, including all evening and night. The beauty of it is that there's no limit to how much iron powder you can store. Eventually huge stockpiles of it could be built up so that there could be, for example, a years worth of reserve fuel for a whole country. There're masses and masses of dirt cheap scrap steel everywhere that could be turned into a fuel supply.
Why recycle det rust at all, it seems to comsume a lot of energy.
they can convert the rust with hydrogen back into iron powder ,so you get a clean loop ,hydrogen produced in sun and wind rich countrys