This was not mercy, it was a strategic move, he used the spy to mislead Tywin. That was one of Rob's weaknesses, he should've shared his plans more often with his commanders.
it was both. mercy was the strategically sound option in that situation. that was one of Robb's greatest strengths, he had a keen awareness for knowing when to be firm. Ned's honour, without the naivete.
Arrogance and ignorance is what made him a bad leader. This guy really didnt like sharing information with his commanders. A king wo advisors is a fool left unchecked.
@@qb6570He let them know obviously. He couldn't move 20000 men without their help. He for very obvious reasons couldn't let his plan be known with the scout right there
He should've kept his word to marry the Frey girl.... Rumors about all the ugly frey-ladies did that in when he met Talisa... though when Edmure was introduced to his bride, old Walder hád kept the prettiest of them all in reserve. Had Robb kept that word, he would have had Walder Frey's men, and allegiance for the long run. Walder Frey also knew he mocked by the Riverlords and this was a good chance for him to make up for it.. Despicable as he was perhaps. Robb marrying Talisa was a slap in Walder's face, and incited Walder Frey to side with Tywin Lannister, who made him an offer he couldnt refuse. Robb had already broken his word so Walder Frey owed him nothing. Big mistake on Robb's behalf though.
@@justinwright1745 True! Robb could have married 10 Frey-girls...Walder just wanted that Marriage-arrangement with a Great House! Roslyn Frey could have been married for the Title alone... If Robb wanted to hold 20 other mistresses, besides her, Walder wouldnt have spared it a second-thought... Robb should have just MARRIED a Frey girl... Wed her, bed her.. put a child in her...Done!... Robb could have fucked and married évery other woman in the Seven Kingdoms after that....
he partially deserves it, because he decided to break his oath to frey most of his bannermen were murdered including himself his mother and his pregnant wife, not to mention the north was utterly lost, they might've been able to win if he had just married the frey girl
@bargainbrandmilk9858 yes frey girl was his fault. But the red wedding wouldn't have happened if cat didn't free jaime. Which left a huge target on robbs back since his leverage was gone. Also robb wouldn't have needed the freys if the kastark beheading didn't happen. Which only happened because again cat freed jaime. But no one ever mentions it cuz it's easier to blame robb
@007haryboy robb laughed until the end came, and tywin laughed when robb's end came. There's a difference between both. But the fact that tywin had to resort to an underhanded family slaughter just shows there was no other way to take robb down. The man would've laid hell to king's landing had he not married the nurse.
@@007haryboyNo, they're not really. A war is an overall summation of many battles. An example would be World War two consisted of the battle of leyte gulf in the pacific ocean, the battle of the bulge in Belgium, the battle of Stalingrad in the u.s.s.r. and far too many more battles to list here.
@@007haryboy have you ever heard "The hundred years war"? A presume you have, but you probably never heard of "100 years battle" cuz there's no such thing. Wars can go as long as two nations are hostile, battles on the other hand last rarely over a week
@@DAMNS70 again, missing the point… He was a king and outside of leading battles, he was terrible. You literally saw Robs blunder after blunders from crowning himself king, reneging on Walder Freys marriage pact to letting Theon go back to the iron islands etc. Yet you came away from it, thinking he was a good king? 😆
The amazing thing is that while Robb was quick to realize the scout had no real idea how many there were and used him to bait Tywin, none of the experienced vets figured it out. Robb did a crap job letting his council in on his plans beforehand but in this case they failed to notice what Robb really did here
To be fair to Robb in this particular scene, this was kind of abrupt and he couldn't necessarily tell them what he was planning with the scout right in front of him. He could've easily filled them in right after the confrontation, which I don't think the show or scene shows.
I think he didn’t share his plans a lot because his father was betrayed by people close to him. He’s probably overly paranoid but it does help him keep up the act that he’s a novice with no clue what he’s doing
@@brycenm7614 hmm reaching a bit - Robb does not know who Littlefinger betrayed his father, instead he's only told it was joffery who put his father in chains - Sounds like something Littlefinger, or Varys would do. There's no point in pretending to be novice infront of his allies. And if he kept the act, I suspect he'd eventually have mutiny
@@monkeydluffy2063 he does know his father was invited to the capital to be hand of the king then publicly executed. I don’t think it’s hard to assume he was betrayed even if Robb doesn’t know the specifics. It could also be that he’s trying to prove himself and fill his fathers shoes at a young age and doesn’t know when to ask for help
So sorry Robb was killed off so quickly. He was just what, fourteen or fifteen? What a King he would have made, courageous, just, and merciful. RIP, Robb Stark.
That's not meant to be the lesson of Robb's relationship with Talisa. The sad thing is that replacing Jeyne Westerling (the girl Robb marries in the books) with Talisa robs this plot line of its actual lesson. In the books, Robb and his forces seize the Crag - the ancestral home of House Westerling, a Westerman house loyal to the Lannisters. The house's patriarch, Gawen Westerling, is already being held as a captive at Seagard by House Mallister. During the Storming of the Crag, Robb is wounded. Jeyne's mother and uncle, Sybell Spicer and Rolph Spicer, conspire with Tywin to bring House Stark down. They do this by making Jeyne tend to the wounded Robb. Word eventually arrives from Winterfell that Theon Greyjoy has betrayed Robb and supposedly killed his brothers. Robb is deeply wounded by this and Jeyne helps him grieve. The two end up having sex together, forcing Robb to choose between preserving his own honor by maintaining the marriage pact with the Freys or protecting Jeyne's honor by marrying her. Robb chooses the latter, marrying Jeyne the next day. This betrayal of their pact outrages the Freys, causing them to recall their forces from the Crag and Riverrun. Tywin uses this to his advantage, planning the Red Wedding with the Freys and Boltons. Robb's death isn't a ham-fisted "wahmen bad" story. It's a warning, much like with Ned, that honor gets men killed. Much of the books are a critique of ideas like honor.
What Robb teaches us is that fighting fair doesn't always mean winning. He underestimated how angry the Freys were and everyone, Caitlyn included, assumed they were safe at the wedding due to tradition, but tradition can't stop an arrow from piercing your chest. Robb never lost a battle, but he lost because he didn't consider where an attack would come from.
@@RealMothman98Well they’re not necessarily saying that honor is horrible, but the point is that honor is almost impossible to uphold in a world so devoid of it.
@@emperorconstantinexipalaio4121 I never said honor is horrible. I stated that Ned and Robb's stories act as a critique of honor. They show that, while noble and virtuous, honor gets men killed.
The one thing rob wasn’t good at was explaining to those under him his plans like the situation with the mountain where he wanted to draw him in but his commander not knowing the plan crossed the river to attack or this where umber just thinks he’s weak but in reality is smart that and marrying some random foreigner and breaking an oath condemning him and the north to defeat
Commanders don't often tell their subordinates the plans for why they do what they do. Tywin sure as hell didn't tell his generals things unless they needed to know. While it's confusing for civies to understand, ask any soldier and they'll fully understand why Robb played things close to the vest. The more people that know the plan, the higher the chance of the enemy finding out. Can't blame Robb for Edmure's stupidity. Edmure wanted to "share in the glory".
@@qb6570 I have served and letting your subordinates know the plan and overall intent on there objective so that they can know how best to achieve it is paramount. Yes information is left out but for someone who is commanding hundreds of your men there is no reason he should not be given the scope of the plan
The moment that Robb called for his Banners, he should've sent a rider to Castle Black, informing about Jon's status. As Jon hadent pledged an Oath to the night's Watch yet, and hadent committed any crime that banished him to the Wall: Robb could have sent a Pardon to the Lord Commander, and demanding his half-brother back! Jon would have kept Robb in line, and made him keep his word to Walder Frey, even as King in the North, Robb would greatly value Jon's counsil. And together, these 2 would have been unstoppable!
I think it was smart to let him go cause in Robb’s mind he prolly was thinking “ain’t no way this kids gonna admit to being captured to TYWINN LANNISTER OF ALL PEOPLE “💀😭
The day tyrion found his father on the privy and proceeded to put those arrows in Tywins chest was the day Westeros found out that Tywin does not shit gold
I dont see people talk about how this was actually a strategic move. The scout went and inflated Robb's numbers. If they had killed him there, another scout might as reported a more accurate 18, making them less of a threat in Tywin's eyes.
That wasn't the actual trick. The important part was "heading South". Robb sent a diversionary force south to distract Tywin. His whole plan was to capture Jaime, so sending the scout back wasn't a matter of a minor 10% miscount in troop size. The scout was a godsend because, if Robb played dumb properly (which he did) then Tywin would be more convinced than ever to keep his forces together for the fight. He didn't send a single troop to assist Jamie (which is why he got captured).
To be fair, Catelyn was southern lady who knew the politics of the riverlands, so she did have her uses but I don't see a reason why she would be included in the war meeting.
@@wasifalam802 at this she's the lady of winterfell, ned is still alive. The other lords respect her more than the "boy", as you can tell umber looked up before marching out. When in winterfell, he actually drew out his sword against the "boy"
Her advice was sound. Don't send Theon away. Don't betray Frey's trust. Listening to her would've kept Robb's head about his neck. She also called for peace between Renly and Stannis. In the show she advised Ned against going south and Robb against marrying Talisa.
She was right about some things, wrong about others. If Robb had kept Theon and the Freys on his side the he would've at least had a fighting chance against the Lannisters. She was very wrong when it came to letting Jamie go. She was also wrong to capture Tyrion. She wasn't a plainly awful/idiotic character though. She almost knew what she was doing and understood what the consequences could be, even if she was making decisions based on false information.
I think Rob and Cat were great examples of why you need wise council and experienced leadership. You can make reasonable choices all along the way and still be plain wrong.
They aged up all of the main characters who were children in the books into late teenagers/young adults in the show. May have inadvertently hurt some plotlines, but aging up the main child characters makes too much sense for the visual medium. Some of the things these characters have to endure is truly horrific, and seeing it with out own eyes happening to literal children would've been an even harder sell for most than this shows graphic sex and violence already was to begin with.
He’s also just actually older in the show. Everyone is. It’s why Jon seems so immature at the beginning of him being at the wall. His actions are written for him being 14 instead of whatever 16 or 17 he is
He had the right number. Robb used him to trick Tywin into thinking that he's marching with all his army while he only sent 2000 and the rest 18000 captured Jamie
Generally when counting enemy encampments, you count the tents. Most camps are set up in some sort of order so if you count one row of tents, then count how many rows, you can get a rough idea of how many you're facing. Trying to count individual people in a camp where people are moving is pointless, but tents don't usually move.
Jon Umber was actually the opposite of Roose Bolton, he criticized Robb to his face but was always loyal to the end, while Roose was silent in public and plotted behind his back
I sincerely wished that the earlier seasons of this show had the budget that the later seasons did.. It was a shame we never got to see any real footage of Robert Starks battles. Always glossed over. Imagine a battle of the Bastards type episode with any of Robs victories.. Oh well.
For those who don't know, he baited Tywin, the scout fed the info back to Tywin, Tywin assumed Robb had gotten cocky and was marching south with his whole force to meet him in open battle, and as such left Jamie and his smaller host alone to lead the fight against Robb and his men, however there were only 2,000 men when they fought, the other 18,000 ambushed Jamie Lannister in the field, destroying his host, and capturing Tywins eldest son
The information sparked the notion for the Red Wedding. Recall when Lord Tywin said there was no need for 20K men to go die at war when a simple act of ventral will get the job done ☑️ 😮
Robb was one of my favorite characters in all of GOT. My heart truly broke when him and Catlin were betrayed by Roose Bolton and Walder Frey. I just wish the show would have brought in Lady Stoneheart.
For a (what is supposed to be) a 17 year old kid, Robb Stark showed a lot of promise as a battle strategist. He outsmarted Tywin and Jaime Lannister. Being a 17 year old thinking with his dick was his downfall.
I wonder if the scout knew that he was feeding false info to Tywin but did it anyways cuz Rob spared him. What did he owe to his Lord who basically sends scouts out to die if captured? He couldn't admit that he was captured either, no one would believe him or he might even be tortured just out of fear he may be a double agent.
I haven't watched this since it aired so my memory is a little hazy, but did Tywin actually fall for that ploy? I honestly thought he was smarter than that. How could he fall for thinking the Starks could rally 20,000 men in such a short period of time? They would have kept tabs on the growing army anyway so why would he believe the Northern army could acquire so many people in that time frame.
Ironically in the books Great Jon Umber was Rob’s most loyal general. Ready to give his life for his king. Of course D&D decided to make him an antagonist… another of so many bad changes.
By far the best leader in the entire series. He made 1 mistake and 1 mistake only. His people respected him, loved him, feared him and most importantly believed in him all at once despite him being still just a teenager. Even still Walder Frey made a terrible decision in the end. Dude traded a chance at having 2 of his grand daughters married to a northern prince and princess Arya and Rickon), a couple grandchildren fostered by the King in the North and one of his grandsons as the squire with the king of the North and thus being one of the biggest houses in the entirety of the new North/Riverlands Kingdom all for the promise of Tywin Lannister to grant him Riverrun (not even great lord/paramount if the riverlands title as Baelish was already granted the title), and to have one of his grand daughters married to the new warden of the North. Dude could’ve been one of the biggest political players in a newly conjoined Kingdom of the North and Riverlands along with being bound by blood with the new royal family 2 times all for a bigger castle and joining houses once with the new warden of the North. Terrible trade.
robs biggest failure was his lack of transparency in my opinion. You can see how it angers his generals and his lack of transparency with Edmure Tully leads to Edmure taking the windmill because he didnt know Rob wanted him to drive the mountain to the west to kill him.
Almost everyone misses Robb's genius here. The north doesn't have 20 thousand men here. IIrc it was maybe 14k. The scout was a poor one, knowing tywin would underestimate him, he took the opportunity to feed tywin bad information. "20k coming south to see if he really does shit gold". And then making a show if doing it for "honor and mercy" when in reality it was cold strategy. Now tywin thinks they are marching south, when they didn't and tywin believes there are mor northerners than there are. Very shrewd. Robbs fault here was overestimating his own commanders' shrewdness. They also didn't understand why he did it, the greatjon was as fierce as anyone, but not the sharpest.
He did not do it for mercy. If the spy had said the true numbers, which was less then 20,000 he would have been likely kept. But he is happy to let false information return to Lord Tywin
This wasn't mercy though. This was a planned tactical move. Let the scout return to Tywin with a wrong number and Robb played the Lion like a fool. If not for his mother's Tully side rearing it's dumb head, he would have likely been able to get Tywin to negotiate. Even a brilliant tactician like Tywin couldn't fight a war on 2 fronts (Robb and Stannis)
“Never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake, it’s bad manners.”
That wasn't a mistake he let that spy go so he would tell tywin that 20k northerners are coming so that he could only send 2k and capture jamie
@@muhammadesa2517yeah nice I didn’t catch that when it watched the show
It was a win-win situation
Napoleon Bonaparte!!
@@muhammadesa2517i would have said 30 000 northerners and counting
This was not mercy, it was a strategic move, he used the spy to mislead Tywin. That was one of Rob's weaknesses, he should've shared his plans more often with his commanders.
Perhaps the real anger in the tent was more convincing to the spy.
it was both. mercy was the strategically sound option in that situation. that was one of Robb's greatest strengths, he had a keen awareness for knowing when to be firm. Ned's honour, without the naivete.
Arrogance and ignorance is what made him a bad leader. This guy really didnt like sharing information with his commanders.
A king wo advisors is a fool left unchecked.
@@qb6570His advisors are morons, hot blooded northeners or pretty sus lmao
@@qb6570He let them know obviously. He couldn't move 20000 men without their help.
He for very obvious reasons couldn't let his plan be known with the scout right there
Rob was phenomenal, i wish he lasted longer the show would have been so much more intresting.
I agree. His story should have been so much better. His evolution would have been incredible.
He should've kept his word to marry the Frey girl.... Rumors about all the ugly frey-ladies did that in when he met Talisa... though when Edmure was introduced to his bride, old Walder hád kept the prettiest of them all in reserve.
Had Robb kept that word, he would have had Walder Frey's men, and allegiance for the long run. Walder Frey also knew he mocked by the Riverlords and this was a good chance for him to make up for it.. Despicable as he was perhaps.
Robb marrying Talisa was a slap in Walder's face, and incited Walder Frey to side with Tywin Lannister, who made him an offer he couldnt refuse.
Robb had already broken his word so Walder Frey owed him nothing.
Big mistake on Robb's behalf though.
If he didnt marry the nurse he would still be alive.
Bro could’ve married the frey girl and just been with Talisa. Walder frey wouldn’t have given a fuck about him not being loyal lmao.
@@justinwright1745 True! Robb could have married 10 Frey-girls...Walder just wanted that Marriage-arrangement with a Great House! Roslyn Frey could have been married for the Title alone... If Robb wanted to hold 20 other mistresses, besides her, Walder wouldnt have spared it a second-thought...
Robb should have just MARRIED a Frey girl... Wed her, bed her.. put a child in her...Done!... Robb could have fucked and married évery other woman in the Seven Kingdoms after that....
Robb will always be my favorite. Bro doesnt desereve the hate he gets
same. I wish he had a "badass" scene like Jon.
he partially deserves it, because he decided to break his oath to frey most of his bannermen were murdered including himself his mother and his pregnant wife, not to mention the north was utterly lost, they might've been able to win if he had just married the frey girl
So easy to say. Just marry somebody. You don't love and don't want anything to do with, isn't it. Especially when it isnt you@@bargainbrandmilk9858
@bargainbrandmilk9858 yes frey girl was his fault. But the red wedding wouldn't have happened if cat didn't free jaime. Which left a huge target on robbs back since his leverage was gone. Also robb wouldn't have needed the freys if the kastark beheading didn't happen. Which only happened because again cat freed jaime. But no one ever mentions it cuz it's easier to blame robb
@@Tempsdg it's easier to blame both of them, both of them are at fault for the red wedding
Robb set him up to send tywin false information about his plans.
Yes. Obviously.🙄
@notknown6605 what's up your bum bro
Rob had courage and brain too. He baited tywin successfully and won the war. He was a perfect king to rule 7 kingdoms.
Won battles not the war
@@phoenixking9457 I thought both are synonymous. Isn’t it??
@007haryboy robb laughed until the end came, and tywin laughed when robb's end came. There's a difference between both. But the fact that tywin had to resort to an underhanded family slaughter just shows there was no other way to take robb down. The man would've laid hell to king's landing had he not married the nurse.
@@007haryboyNo, they're not really.
A war is an overall summation of many battles.
An example would be World War two consisted of the battle of leyte gulf in the pacific ocean, the battle of the bulge in Belgium, the battle of Stalingrad in the u.s.s.r. and far too many more battles to list here.
@@007haryboy have you ever heard "The hundred years war"? A presume you have, but you probably never heard of "100 years battle" cuz there's no such thing. Wars can go as long as two nations are hostile, battles on the other hand last rarely over a week
Robb would’ve been an amazing King.
People who say this sincerely, really missed the point of the show. 😂
@@ad1170yep yep yep 👍
Characters like tyrion varys little finger make it preety clear that there is no true succesor to Iron Throne there never was
Especially if he had Bran the All-Seeing Greenseer watching out for treachery
@@ad1170 I’m not saying King of Westeros. I’m saying King in a general sense.
@@DAMNS70 again, missing the point…
He was a king and outside of leading battles, he was terrible.
You literally saw Robs blunder after blunders from crowning himself king, reneging on Walder Freys marriage pact to letting Theon go back to the iron islands etc.
Yet you came away from it, thinking he was a good king? 😆
Robb was young, but he sure as hell wasnt a pushover
Crazy thing is - in the books he's only like 15 or 16 at this point.
Not by a long shot
@@fayceoffnothing crazy about it. Teenagers in middle ages weren't treated like today. By 16, you were considered a grown man.
The amazing thing is that while Robb was quick to realize the scout had no real idea how many there were and used him to bait Tywin, none of the experienced vets figured it out. Robb did a crap job letting his council in on his plans beforehand but in this case they failed to notice what Robb really did here
To be fair to Robb in this particular scene, this was kind of abrupt and he couldn't necessarily tell them what he was planning with the scout right in front of him. He could've easily filled them in right after the confrontation, which I don't think the show or scene shows.
@@wasifalam802 ahem, op said that his council is in the wrong in this scene. No need to bring anything in this defense
I think he didn’t share his plans a lot because his father was betrayed by people close to him. He’s probably overly paranoid but it does help him keep up the act that he’s a novice with no clue what he’s doing
@@brycenm7614 hmm reaching a bit
- Robb does not know who Littlefinger betrayed his father, instead he's only told it was joffery who put his father in chains
- Sounds like something Littlefinger, or Varys would do. There's no point in pretending to be novice infront of his allies. And if he kept the act, I suspect he'd eventually have mutiny
@@monkeydluffy2063 he does know his father was invited to the capital to be hand of the king then publicly executed. I don’t think it’s hard to assume he was betrayed even if Robb doesn’t know the specifics.
It could also be that he’s trying to prove himself and fill his fathers shoes at a young age and doesn’t know when to ask for help
Rob is just and fierce !
He wasn't doing it for just reasons. It was a ploy
Yeah he gave them the information of the 20k men and only sent 2k and the other 18k attacked Jamie’s army and took him prisoner
I might have to rewatch the early seasons just for Robb. Forgot how interesting it used to be
And how stupid he became. He represents this series very well: Start like a badass, die an idiot.
Agreed
Robb is the reason one of my favorite POV's in the books was Catelyn's
1st 4 seasons are top notch
@@e-f-f-y6781 For me Catelyn was insufferable for some reason. I didn't like her as a character.
So sorry Robb was killed off so quickly. He was just what, fourteen or fifteen? What a King he would have made, courageous, just, and merciful. RIP, Robb Stark.
I think he was about 22 at this time.
@@nicholasnixon1311In books he is 17 when dies
@@avrace2708the books are ridiculous with the ages 😂
Then again Alexander the Great took over kingdoms at 19
@@nicholasnixon1311 the actor was 24-25 in season 1
The best lesson the show teaches us via Rob is that stupid decisions over women will cost you everything.
That's not meant to be the lesson of Robb's relationship with Talisa. The sad thing is that replacing Jeyne Westerling (the girl Robb marries in the books) with Talisa robs this plot line of its actual lesson.
In the books, Robb and his forces seize the Crag - the ancestral home of House Westerling, a Westerman house loyal to the Lannisters. The house's patriarch, Gawen Westerling, is already being held as a captive at Seagard by House Mallister. During the Storming of the Crag, Robb is wounded. Jeyne's mother and uncle, Sybell Spicer and Rolph Spicer, conspire with Tywin to bring House Stark down. They do this by making Jeyne tend to the wounded Robb.
Word eventually arrives from Winterfell that Theon Greyjoy has betrayed Robb and supposedly killed his brothers. Robb is deeply wounded by this and Jeyne helps him grieve. The two end up having sex together, forcing Robb to choose between preserving his own honor by maintaining the marriage pact with the Freys or protecting Jeyne's honor by marrying her. Robb chooses the latter, marrying Jeyne the next day.
This betrayal of their pact outrages the Freys, causing them to recall their forces from the Crag and Riverrun. Tywin uses this to his advantage, planning the Red Wedding with the Freys and Boltons. Robb's death isn't a ham-fisted "wahmen bad" story. It's a warning, much like with Ned, that honor gets men killed. Much of the books are a critique of ideas like honor.
What Robb teaches us is that fighting fair doesn't always mean winning. He underestimated how angry the Freys were and everyone, Caitlyn included, assumed they were safe at the wedding due to tradition, but tradition can't stop an arrow from piercing your chest. Robb never lost a battle, but he lost because he didn't consider where an attack would come from.
@@RealMothman98Well they’re not necessarily saying that honor is horrible, but the point is that honor is almost impossible to uphold in a world so devoid of it.
@@emperorconstantinexipalaio4121 I never said honor is horrible. I stated that Ned and Robb's stories act as a critique of honor. They show that, while noble and virtuous, honor gets men killed.
Many such cases...
Such a young genius. He was playin 4D Chess while everybody else played checkers. Right up until he met a girl.
The one thing rob wasn’t good at was explaining to those under him his plans like the situation with the mountain where he wanted to draw him in but his commander not knowing the plan crossed the river to attack or this where umber just thinks he’s weak but in reality is smart that and marrying some random foreigner and breaking an oath condemning him and the north to defeat
Commanders don't often tell their subordinates the plans for why they do what they do. Tywin sure as hell didn't tell his generals things unless they needed to know. While it's confusing for civies to understand, ask any soldier and they'll fully understand why Robb played things close to the vest. The more people that know the plan, the higher the chance of the enemy finding out. Can't blame Robb for Edmure's stupidity. Edmure wanted to "share in the glory".
@@qb6570 I have served and letting your subordinates know the plan and overall intent on there objective so that they can know how best to achieve it is paramount. Yes information is left out but for someone who is commanding hundreds of your men there is no reason he should not be given the scope of the plan
@@Theobserver6897 the reply was for the 1st comment under your comment
@@qb6570 oof
@@brettbrooks5511in real life you’re supposed to provide mission and intent if nothing else. It’s a basic tenant of good military planning.
That's why Robb is my favorite character
More than John snow
The moment that Robb called for his Banners, he should've sent a rider to Castle Black, informing about Jon's status. As Jon hadent pledged an Oath to the night's Watch yet, and hadent committed any crime that banished him to the Wall: Robb could have sent a Pardon to the Lord Commander, and demanding his half-brother back!
Jon would have kept Robb in line, and made him keep his word to Walder Frey, even as King in the North, Robb would greatly value Jon's counsil.
And together, these 2 would have been unstoppable!
Just love Rob...and his maturity
Holy shit. I never rewatched the show and saw this scene. Even years later I’m realizing new things
I think it was smart to let him go cause in Robb’s mind he prolly was thinking “ain’t no way this kids gonna admit to being captured to TYWINN LANNISTER OF ALL PEOPLE “💀😭
No. Because he only sent 2000, the other 18000 went elsewhere. He was brilliant until he got married and soft. 😅
@@kevinhope561....yup, fell in love during War n paid the price....
Lol you literally just said the exact opposite of what he was thinking and planning 😂😂
This was not mercy he used the scouter for his future plan to capture Jaime
Lol scouter.....
"How strong is the North Vegeta?"
"Damnit it's over 9000!!!!"
Why not both?
The day tyrion found his father on the privy and proceeded to put those arrows in Tywins chest was the day Westeros found out that Tywin does not shit gold
Rob was very meticulous but yet inexperienced how war affects everything around you and beyond it.
"Go on!" Great delivery
Rob would have been a better king than any of them. I think he was just like his father.
Very smart he's breeding loyalty
Also it was to trick Tywin
Robb was awesome! It's too bad the way things went down for him, he was noble and honorable like his father, he would have been a good king!
I loved Rob so much ! He was fair, brave, nice, gorgeous
Cant believe they got young tom cruise to play the role of the scout
I dont see people talk about how this was actually a strategic move. The scout went and inflated Robb's numbers. If they had killed him there, another scout might as reported a more accurate 18, making them less of a threat in Tywin's eyes.
It’s because he took 18 k with him. Tywin says it was only 2k men and that rob was with his 18k men.
That wasn't the actual trick. The important part was "heading South".
Robb sent a diversionary force south to distract Tywin. His whole plan was to capture Jaime, so sending the scout back wasn't a matter of a minor 10% miscount in troop size.
The scout was a godsend because, if Robb played dumb properly (which he did) then Tywin would be more convinced than ever to keep his forces together for the fight. He didn't send a single troop to assist Jamie (which is why he got captured).
In the words of shaka zulu never leave an enemy behind
Sun tzu would have been proud, and napoleon too.
Theon quick to hide the plans
The nerve of Catelyn to ever offer advice to ANYONE
To be fair, Catelyn was southern lady who knew the politics of the riverlands, so she did have her uses but I don't see a reason why she would be included in the war meeting.
@@wasifalam802 at this she's the lady of winterfell, ned is still alive. The other lords respect her more than the "boy", as you can tell umber looked up before marching out. When in winterfell, he actually drew out his sword against the "boy"
Her advice was sound. Don't send Theon away. Don't betray Frey's trust. Listening to her would've kept Robb's head about his neck. She also called for peace between Renly and Stannis. In the show she advised Ned against going south and Robb against marrying Talisa.
She was right about some things, wrong about others. If Robb had kept Theon and the Freys on his side the he would've at least had a fighting chance against the Lannisters.
She was very wrong when it came to letting Jamie go. She was also wrong to capture Tyrion. She wasn't a plainly awful/idiotic character though. She almost knew what she was doing and understood what the consequences could be, even if she was making decisions based on false information.
I think Rob and Cat were great examples of why you need wise council and experienced leadership. You can make reasonable choices all along the way and still be plain wrong.
(not that that has anything to do with this video)
In the books he had Greywind eat his fingers and Umber fucking LAUGHED🤣
Um...that happened in the show 💀
The dialect in the first few Seasons: "Gods... I was strong then."
I like Robb's actor a lot, it's just that he looks way older than Robb is supposed to be in the book... 😅
They aged up all of the main characters who were children in the books into late teenagers/young adults in the show. May have inadvertently hurt some plotlines, but aging up the main child characters makes too much sense for the visual medium. Some of the things these characters have to endure is truly horrific, and seeing it with out own eyes happening to literal children would've been an even harder sell for most than this shows graphic sex and violence already was to begin with.
@@levy9595 sure, but in this scene - or Robb in general - it makes less sense, since Robb certainly isn't a "boy" as the Greatjon calls him :D.
They aged up all the kids to make the horror of their reality more palatable. In the books, Dani was about 12 when she was married off to Khal Drogo.
He’s also just actually older in the show. Everyone is. It’s why Jon seems so immature at the beginning of him being at the wall. His actions are written for him being 14 instead of whatever 16 or 17 he is
@@geronimo8159he's still younger than everyone else in the room, and considered young for the standards of someone leading a war
He had the wrong number. Rob was using him.
Captain obvious 😂
Well; the number wasn't necessarily wrong, it's just about where he thought the numbers were going.
He had the right number. Robb used him to trick Tywin into thinking that he's marching with all his army while he only sent 2000 and the rest 18000 captured Jamie
Unfortunately honorable men leave this world sooner than others
He counted up to 20,000? Damn im too lazy to even count up to 100
Generally when counting enemy encampments, you count the tents. Most camps are set up in some sort of order so if you count one row of tents, then count how many rows, you can get a rough idea of how many you're facing.
Trying to count individual people in a camp where people are moving is pointless, but tents don't usually move.
I'd imagine that they have certain technics to count effectively
this
If Rob wasn’t as honorable as Ned he’d have lived longer.
The opposite. Robb wasn't as honorable as Ned, Ned would've married that Frey gir
Robb was actually a tactical leader, it was just the stubbornness of his bannermen that slowed him down. He learned greatly from his father Ned
Rob's deadly flaw was not sharing his plans with his commanders.
Jon Umber was actually the opposite of Roose Bolton, he criticized Robb to his face but was always loyal to the end, while Roose was silent in public and plotted behind his back
Rob was great at sharing his secret plans
I sincerely wished that the earlier seasons of this show had the budget that the later seasons did.. It was a shame we never got to see any real footage of Robert Starks battles. Always glossed over. Imagine a battle of the Bastards type episode with any of Robs victories.. Oh well.
Rob is such a good person as well as his brother John snow
Imagine how far Rob would have gone if it was not for his mom messing everything up
Robb was too wise for his age. He was a military prodigy but his downfall was is youth and his desire for a woman. Great writing ✍️
For those who don't know, he baited Tywin, the scout fed the info back to Tywin, Tywin assumed Robb had gotten cocky and was marching south with his whole force to meet him in open battle, and as such left Jamie and his smaller host alone to lead the fight against Robb and his men, however there were only 2,000 men when they fought, the other 18,000 ambushed Jamie Lannister in the field, destroying his host, and capturing Tywins eldest son
I was so sad when Robb died. He was hauling ass. Ugh. The Starks never catch a break yet theyre often there to save the day.
The information sparked the notion for the Red Wedding. Recall when Lord Tywin said there was no need for 20K men to go die at war when a simple act of ventral will get the job done ☑️ 😮
i always liked they casted the older warriors taller then the young ones
Rob never lost a battle and still lost the war. There's a reason season 5-8 have such a bad wrap.
Robb was one of my favorite characters in all of GOT. My heart truly broke when him and Catlin were betrayed by Roose Bolton and Walder Frey. I just wish the show would have brought in Lady Stoneheart.
Rob was an mvp
Robb was a war genius.
I prefer this Wolf King who can silence battle-tested warriors like the Greatjon Umber over Jon Snow Mister _"I dun want it, She is my Queen"_
Charismaoncomnand explained Robb’s greatest flaw was not explaining the overarching plan to his team of advisors. It would’ve alleviated mistrust.
Robs problem was he let love get in the way of his duty. Had he married the Frey girl, he would've defeated the Lannisters.
For a (what is supposed to be) a 17 year old kid, Robb Stark showed a lot of promise as a battle strategist. He outsmarted Tywin and Jaime Lannister. Being a 17 year old thinking with his dick was his downfall.
The problem is Robb is he doesn't tell his plans to his close generals then expect them to know how to act.
That scout they captured always looked like a medieval "Tom Cruise" 😂😅
It was weird not seeing comments about that being mentioned.
The scout kept his word to robb
I wonder if the scout knew that he was feeding false info to Tywin but did it anyways cuz Rob spared him. What did he owe to his Lord who basically sends scouts out to die if captured? He couldn't admit that he was captured either, no one would believe him or he might even be tortured just out of fear he may be a double agent.
I haven't watched this since it aired so my memory is a little hazy, but did Tywin actually fall for that ploy? I honestly thought he was smarter than that. How could he fall for thinking the Starks could rally 20,000 men in such a short period of time? They would have kept tabs on the growing army anyway so why would he believe the Northern army could acquire so many people in that time frame.
In this one scene you can see Robb two of his biggest flaws and his two biggest strengths
Robb must have been one of the best characters in the game
Rob was a real one. A true Stark.
#HonorableAF
Ironically in the books Great Jon Umber was Rob’s most loyal general. Ready to give his life for his king. Of course D&D decided to make him an antagonist… another of so many bad changes.
Rob died because he was worried bout the wrong thing during war, had terribly lax security for him to be a commander and king
They killed off the best character after Ned.
That spy probably called his first son "Rob"
By far the best leader in the entire series. He made 1 mistake and 1 mistake only. His people respected him, loved him, feared him and most importantly believed in him all at once despite him being still just a teenager. Even still Walder Frey made a terrible decision in the end. Dude traded a chance at having 2 of his grand daughters married to a northern prince and princess Arya and Rickon), a couple grandchildren fostered by the King in the North and one of his grandsons as the squire with the king of the North and thus being one of the biggest houses in the entirety of the new North/Riverlands Kingdom all for the promise of Tywin Lannister to grant him Riverrun (not even great lord/paramount if the riverlands title as Baelish was already granted the title), and to have one of his grand daughters married to the new warden of the North. Dude could’ve been one of the biggest political players in a newly conjoined Kingdom of the North and Riverlands along with being bound by blood with the new royal family 2 times all for a bigger castle and joining houses once with the new warden of the North. Terrible trade.
King of the north
Imagine how hard it is to count 20,000 men and not lost count or track of what and who you’ve seen
Misinformation is a stronger weapon than a sword.
Rob was too smart for his own good.
robs biggest failure was his lack of transparency in my opinion. You can see how it angers his generals and his lack of transparency with Edmure Tully leads to Edmure taking the windmill because he didnt know Rob wanted him to drive the mountain to the west to kill him.
Sick ass move
Still a smart move. Rob was an idiot and thought with his small head but that was a great move.
Almost everyone misses Robb's genius here. The north doesn't have 20 thousand men here. IIrc it was maybe 14k. The scout was a poor one, knowing tywin would underestimate him, he took the opportunity to feed tywin bad information. "20k coming south to see if he really does shit gold". And then making a show if doing it for "honor and mercy" when in reality it was cold strategy. Now tywin thinks they are marching south, when they didn't and tywin believes there are mor northerners than there are. Very shrewd. Robbs fault here was overestimating his own commanders' shrewdness. They also didn't understand why he did it, the greatjon was as fierce as anyone, but not the sharpest.
Gods, the early seasons were strong then
They need to make an Upscaled conscripts box. £25 for 20 Conscripts. They’d probably make it £30 tho.
They were expecting them him south while he captured jaime somewhere else😂
Are you touched, boy? Always seemed like such a wild thing to say to someone.
Whenever u get in power send away people who don't respect ur new status like robb did with his mom
Never lost in a fair fight.
Having mercy in that age gets you killed.
It was a trick, his treason to Frey cost him all
He did not do it for mercy. If the spy had said the true numbers, which was less then 20,000 he would have been likely kept. But he is happy to let false information return to Lord Tywin
This wasn't mercy though. This was a planned tactical move. Let the scout return to Tywin with a wrong number and Robb played the Lion like a fool. If not for his mother's Tully side rearing it's dumb head, he would have likely been able to get Tywin to negotiate. Even a brilliant tactician like Tywin couldn't fight a war on 2 fronts (Robb and Stannis)
it was trick, Tywin underestimated him and thought Robb was just gonna head directly for him thinking he wanted to prove himself
ROB KNEW was he doing this is how he captured JAMIE lying about his 20k moving south
And that’s why the Starks rule the north They think of stuff like that!
Imagine that the scout saied a wrong number intentonaly,knowing that is a small probability that ,Robb will let him go back to Tywin...
XD
I loved robb.
It’s a real shame that big Jon Umber was only in the first season he played a pretty big role in Robb’s army
Rob was too naive, this cause him his life.
Well I would not want to play Chess against Rob and definitely not checkers.
Its so tragic... Robb couldve been unstoppable if he didnt let love blind him... I guess he truly was just a boy...
Rob saw an opportunity and he took it, none understood at the time
Try Kratos with that 😂😂😂
Good scene