Do Guitar Cables Matter? (Yes, But The Reason Might Surprise You…)
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Did you know the length of your guitar cable can play a significant role in the instrument's tone? Watch THIS video to learn how keep those tones pristine.
Thanks to @UndertoneAudio-nx1dh and @mrwev for making this video possible!
LINKS:
+ Undertone Audio Vari-Cap Instrument Cable: geni.us/twQb15f
+ Circuit Visualization Tool: falstad.com/circuit/e-cap.html
+ iZotope Neutron 4 Equalizer: imp.i114863.net/5b99O3
Matthew Johnson RUclips Channel: @matthewjohnson2554
NEXT VIDEO: • What Is A DI Box (Dire...
00:00 - Cable A or Cable B: Can you tell the difference?
00:38 - The reveal. . .
01:00 - Do you know Eric Valentine?
01:20 - Vari-Cap Instrument Cable
01:38 - Test #2: Matching Cable Brands
01:54 - Why does cable length matter?
02:05 - What is capacitance?
02:42 - Capacitor Demonstration - Part 1
04:25 - How capcitors affect analog low-pass filters
04:40 - Can you recover the high-end in post-production?
05:09 - Are low capacitance instrument cables better?
05:25 - Undertone Audio Vari-Cap Instrument Cable Demo
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This description is not accurate and specific enough. I can see 3 factors when it comes to cable/conductor selection.
1. Resistance
2. Noise
3. Filter effect(stray capacitance).
Almost all copper wire offer the same resistivity and the longer the cable the higher the resistance and the thicker the cable the lower the resistance. That’s it. Any claim on the superiority of such and such cable is just bullshit.
If you use coax or some differential cable, noise level can be greatly minimized. Again it’s not so exotic a thing that costs you hundreds of bucks.
At audio level, stray capacitance of a few picofarad is not a problem at all. For example, at 1 Hertz, 1 picofarad has 160 giga ohms. At 10,000 hertz a 10 picofarad has around 1600kilo ohms. Still it’s a huge resistance. Using square waves in testing environment is the standard and you can see on an oscilloscope how the broad range of frequencies are affected. But it’s still better if you calculate how a particular frequency (say, 20khz) is affected. Just like every cream and oil in beauty industry costs you many times the normal price, audio accessories are priced exorbitantly because people rely not on science but on mystical ability of their ear. Lol
Great information on instrument cable capacitance.
As long as a cable is made of good quality copper and shielding, I’ve always chosen cables based on repairability, not brand or claims about tone clarity.
The thing I’m sure you’re aware of is that passive instruments use capacitors in their tone controls anyway, so cable capacitance will obviously affect the tone of the instrument, even if only a little.
As you said, it’s not necessarily a good or a bad thing, it’s just important to be aware of what’s going on so you can properly voice the whole setup to suit your application.
Some guitars have tried to minimize capacitance in the signal path from passive pickups by using a “true bypass” tone control like Fender offered for a while or by leaving out the tone control altogether. Depending on your preference this could create a sound that is “brighter,” “clearer” or even “shrill” or “harsh” because of the high frequencies that don’t get filtered out.
Back when I managed a music repair shop I used to love doing custom wiring jobs on guitars because it gave me the opportunity to work with the musicians and really fine-tune the sound of their instrument to match their expectations beyond what you could achieve with a simple pickup swap.
Am I correct in assuming that this Vari-cap instrument cable is simply acting as a micro-tone control using capacitors in the nanofarad value range as opposed to the microfarad caps used in the instrument tone controls?
from the link - Wide spectrum of tones with a broad range of capacitance adjustments, spanning from 150 pF to 1650 pF in fifteen 100 pF steps. -
Yeah, any decent Mogami cables will do. I buy like bulk and solder them myself. I cut the shortest I can for my setup. I keep seeing people buy low capacity cables but super long run, lol it's useless then. Keep your cables as short as possible for studio work.
The visualization was indeed very helpful for me in understanding the why
Very interesting topic !
Thank you!
My personal preference is for low-capacitance cables. Two reasons: 1. I tend to like brighter tones (which might have something to do with my high-frequency hearing loss). 2. The tone knob on my guitar has enough range to darken the tone as much as I want.
Obviously these are personal choices, your mileage may vary, but it's always useful to know where and why your signal is being shaped.
Thanks.
Great video, don't forget to unroll your cable if you had 10+ meters (32+ feet) since if you left it coiled and stacked on top of itself, you just made an inductor and it starts having LPF (low pass filter) effect, ruining the upper trebles; thankfully it only affect more than 10+ meters cable but it can confused a lot of people on why it happened, kinda like using mains extension cable roll while using your power drill and then it gets hot thus became a fire hazard.
If you calculated the amount of inductance introduced by rolling the cable you'd see that it's negligible
There was a concept that low capacitance guitar cables lower noise more than higher compacitance cables.
A guy did a test to discover if it was true or not.
He took two passive guitars a humbucker pickup les Paul, not noted for being noisy and a single coiled telecaster notorious for being noisy.
Two equal length cords, one rugged for rock the other more delicate, with lower capacitance and preferred by country guitarists.
When both cables were compared on the different instruments, neither were noisier than the other, yet having a lower impeadence with it's single coil pickups the cables with higher capacitance gave weaker treble response.
As one turns up the treble to compensate, one increases the noise as well.
capacitors basically resist change. higher frequency = faster change, so it gets resisted more
good way to put it!
Thanks!
Thank you!
@@AudioUniversity of course you are very helpful in your videos. And you are very articulate when you speak
With a Capacitive Reactance formula you can work out (or tune) your cable's low pass filter properties.
I wonder what other instrument examples you could show this on (other than the ones mentioned in the video). :)
How is the vari-cap different than a tone control on the electric guitar?
Spitting facts! I keep 3 meters (9 feet) as the upper limit on guitar cable with passive output (if you have guitar with active pickups AND low impedance output, then this doesn't matter anymore) and then there needs to be a buffer.
5 meters (15 feet)is absolute maximum I'll allow and then it has to be extremely low capacitance cable and very high output pickups and you need an EQ after the fact to bring back the lost high end.
But shorter, the better. I have 6 feet cable and 9 feet cable in my studio readily on hand. I've stashed the 15 feet one to the cable locker because it's very rare to need it and if you do, you do and you work around the issues it's creating.
A similar comparison between XLRs on a miked source would be very interesting.
If our keyboard and our synthesizer has one cable out ( I assume TRS) can we go into our L20 Zoom into one XLR slot in the Mixing board? So with a TRS to XLR cable.
Sometimes TRS connections are used for stereo (left and right). In that case, you’d need a TRS to dual TS. If it’s a balanced TRS connection, you could use TRS to TRS or TRS to XLR.
@@AudioUniversity Ok so just so I understand, If I have an XLR cable One end goes to the mixer and on one end I add an adapter for 1/4" that plugs into the Keyboard, that will work. Right? Or do I have to split onto the mixing board and use up 2 channels?
If our band has all balanced cables. Would it be ok to use balanced cables on guitars? or any instruments for that matter.
The connection between a guitar pickup and the instrument input is unbalanced. The output and input are what make it balanced, which require a certain type of cable. But the cable itself can’t make a balanced connection if the output and input aren’t balanced.
So if all we have are balanced cables we should not use them or use it on to use them?
I have a question (hope you will understand me I'm baguette)
if resistance is resisting to change like a coment below said (wich feel right to me @cURLybOi). Why does passive pickup performe better tha active one while passive pickup as less voltage output (the space between the bot and the top off de wave is closer) than an active pickup who as a lot more output ?
What makes the passive pickup perform better in your opinion?
I'm baguette 😂
So this problem doesn't exist for active pickups?
I would love to see your opinion of the "leave input gain to 0 when recording electric guitars and only adjust VST guitar AMP input in relation to your interface max input level" statement from this video : ruclips.net/video/jXKZqJtjLkg/видео.html (instead of the "set input level on the interface untill the signal is arround -12/-6db kind of statement).
Another video speaking about it: ruclips.net/video/KCLQp4R0ahs/видео.html
I have gone to school for this stuff and this is my take on that advice:
Although my knee-jerk reaction was "don't do this!!", upon watching the first video you linked, I found out that it is very helpful to many people and I think I know why.
First of all, the reason why you want to dial in the input gain of your interface is to get an optimal signal to noise ratio (SNR). Basically, an audio interface (just like any other piece of audio processing equipment with any analog circuitry) has a noise floor. That is the lower boundary of its dynamic range. The upper boundary is defined by when it starts clipping. So when we adjust the input gain, we adjust our signal level so it's as far away from the noise floor as can be while not hitting the ceiling (clipping). Fully analog gear has a high noise floor while the clipping (saturation) is considered pleasing by many. This is why with analog gear, we raise the signal to just shy of clipping - if it clips occasionally it's not too bad, but if it's closer to the noise floor than it needs to be, it is bad. But digital gear is different: it has a far lower noise floor, but we don't want it to clip. Ever. Thus, we keep a safe distance (-18 dB) so we have enough headroom. That is proper gain setting on a digital system. And that is where I think it went wrong. Back when I was new, I thought you set the gain on digital just like on analog - just shy of clipping. But all the plugins expect a -18dB signal as that's the standard level in the digital realm, so a lot of amateurs using amp sims are running their signals way too hot. The solution is not to turn down the input gain completely, that'll lead to a noisier signal, which btw, no following plugin in the signal chain can properly salvage. *Use a trim plugin between your interface and all your plugins instead.* It's fully digital, so there's no noise floor in sight and you can use it to attenuate (lower) both the guitar and the noise part of your guitar signal (when lowering input gain, you're only lowering the guitar part but the noise stays the same). By using a trim plugin instead of the input gain, you are preserving a good signal to noise ratio while not giving the plugins too much signal.
@@charlotteice5704 that is a very useful observation! 👍
By trim plugin do you mean DAW specific plugin for gain increase/decrease? Like Ableton utility plugin for example?
@@kennethdarlington yes, something like that. It doesn't have to be DAW specific in the sense of Ableton plugin for Ableton Live/Avid plugin for Avid ProTools though, just DAW specific in the sense of being made for use inside of a DAW's channel strip which is of course most trim plugins.
Also, if it's plugin for level increase/decrease and you want to make sure that it really is a trim control, look out for it going both up and down. Gain like on your interface starts at 0 and whatever the maximum is, e.g. +40 dB. As opposed to gain, trim can also decrease the level, so for example, it goes from -20dB to +20dB. If a level adjustment plugin cannot go below 0dB, it's of no use for this application.
I also commented such a thing on the first video you linked and its original creator, Ed S, had something very important to say to that: guitar pickups are usually an already very noisey source, so it's not like you're increasing a clean signal so it's far above the noise floor; that signal already has significant noise in in it. Thus, your mileage with the strategy I suggested may vary. It doesn't hurt to try, so try both options and listen to which has less noise.
Thx for your interest in this ^^
I tried the workflow above and honnestly didnt find more noise even with high gain guitar. Sounds good to me, and has tje serous advantage of being easily reproductible.
Also, the workflow seems to be backup up by manufacturers lile DSP, for which plugins are calibrated for -12db max output. Different plugins seems to have different requirements (not just -18 for all), there is a spreadsheet about it. I'm waiting for answer of Positive Grid on this (they are digging already)
Also Guitar Amp plugin have bulltin input gain knob so no need for dedicated trim plugin.
Anyway, a sure thing is that it fo raise question, and Audio University call on this would be very appreciatded 😉
what about using a DI box with longer cables?
Like he says on the video, once those high frequencies are gone, they're gone, it doesn't matter where you plug that long cable into.
However, if you have a short cable going into a buffer (like a boost pedal that's on, but not actually boosting the volume), you can use a long cable *after* that buffer without losing high frequencies (at least not nearly as much).
The whole point of a DI box is to boost your signal *before* a long cable run.
Does this affect headphones and speakers?
IEM, Headphones, Speaker cables are all analogue cable which is the same as a guitar cable.
So yes. It matters and but checking methods doesn’t apply to this.
The capacitor doesn’t attenuate the frequency as you increase to 40Hz (4:11), it attenuates the amplitude. Slip of the tongue I’m sure.
Great video for the science. Not using the science, but my ears when editing, using a high quality cable and ends, your signal will be cleaner, much more even and balanced, less harsh or brittle. There is a big enough difference for myself to use Mogami with Neutrik ends. Last thing you want, is to have to retrack a part because your cable was inferior.
Are there Guitars with optical cables?
Whats the point? You are converting analog to digital for what? By then you’re just introducing more variables to the signal.
Guitars already have variable capacitors, in the tone control. With that in mind, I'm not sure I see any advantage to a cable with variable capacitance - you can never reduce capacitance from the default, so you may as well just use the variable capacitor that's already on the guitar.
I've bought Mogami before. They are not cheap. B.
Edit- The other thing about Mogami is that they are durable. I have cables over a decade old that are no worse for wear.
Can UTA say the same? I tried something along the same lines for an audio cable. They failed within a year.
KISS
It was mogami or nothing for me. I could instantly hear the difference. It was crazy.
Yea i make my own cables using basic copper cable and neutrik connectors and in 25 years havemt had one fail. Mogami is all hype and nonsense, they are just copper cables.
@@christophejergales7852difference from what? If the previous cable was copper and of the same thickness then you're imagining any improvement.
@@nickmandleberg I want to believe that, but I plugged one cable in, and I plugged in another, mogami sounded better. I've gone through my entire life scrutinizing heavy metal guitar tones. I can't stand how many bands just phone it in and produce such crappy tones out of their instruments. I spent a lot of money finding my guitar tone. It can't just be in my head. I hear the difference. And the first thing everyone says when they heard my music: that guitar tone. They sure as hell didn't make a compliment about my crappy music, but the tone definitely stood out.
@@christophejergales7852 it all depends what the previous cable was constructed of and to what specs and if it was working as it should. If they were both copper of the same length and thickness with no faults then your assertion is impossible. There is a possible reason. It's called the placebo effect and audio can absolutely fool your brain - this is a scientific fact - our ears are unreliable.
I think the tone should have a minimal impact for the tone, what I would look for a cable is not the tone, but durability.
I already thought B was the expensive cable and sounded like that because it's longer :)
But I haven't learned this in the audio lessons at the vocational school for event technicians. I learned this from RUclips videos aimed at guitarists. That's really disappointing because it's something that I think every event technician working as a sound guy should know, but many don't.
As for the vari-cap cable: I think it's a mostly useless gimmick. Any producer and especially live sound guy is going to achieve this effect using an equalizer instead of having another piece of gear in the signal chain that can fail or have the wrong settings that get overlooked. Any analog-loving guitarist who would like this effect would much prefer to not have it permanently attached to a cable and have it in a pedal or DI box form factor instead. The few guitarists who do not fetishize analog gear would also just use an EQ plugin.
For some reason B sounds worse to me (there's a weird buzzing in the high end compared to cable A)
Isn't a capacitor in series a high pass filter
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A is the expensive one.
Cheers.
"A" sounds better :)
B
NO, cables made of gold and platinum and unicorn urine at $200 a pop are superior!
I couldn't get any difference with any example , I have to fix my ears or did same for others
A
4:48 until there is some kind of AI based VST to resynthesize them 😅 (which would be overkill for sure)
yes but 70 bucks matter also
$85 is pocket change in most audiophile circles 😂
Pretty much it...
Normal people use their equipment to listen to music; audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment.
I mean audiophile circles and Gibson players are pretty much the same.
High end cables are all hype and no science ask any professional audio engineer who works in commercial grade facilities. Copper is copper.
Build quality still matters. The cheapest cables might be less durable or have inadequate shielding.
So what I take from this video, is unless you're a multi-million dollars professional, this subject is completely irrelevant, and any cable will produce infinitesimally irrelevant different results.
Cheers.
If it's analog cables, it matters. End of discussion.
Well, actually no if output impedance is low enough.
That's why he said no difference if using active pickups, and same as speaker/headphone amplifiers with lower than 0.1 ohm impedance.
Nonsense - as long as there's no signal loss a copper cable is a cable ia a cable. There is no science to back up your claim
@@nickmandleberg You literally just backed up my response.
Edit: but anyway, I switched from a monster cable guitar cable to a mogami and the sound difference was night and day. I'm a total tone chaser and I went through whatever troubles I could to ensure the best tone coming out of my equipment.
Yes the fact you can hear *but cannot measure in any scientific way* this night and day "difference" sums it up... I'm guessing you're a bedroom player and not a pro audio engineer...
@@nickmandleberg I'll do a blind taste test any day. And thanks for the put down. Very constructive.
I'm a guitarist and an audiophile. When I setup my office/studio I used a some random 1/4 trs cables to connect my Focal Shape 40 monitors and SVS Micro 3000 sub to my Focusrite 18i8. Being an audiophile I immediately realize how there was no soundstage and no matter what I did I couldn't get the sub to disappear. I replaced all of the cable with Mogami Gold and instantly the vocals were dead center, the soundstage had depth and the sub completely disappeared. Summary: Cables can make a huge difference. I use nothing but Mogami Gold cables.
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A