I am rebuilding a M177 myself but went the Nikasil route instead of sleeving. The acid for Nikasil does a number on that block. I will Darton sleeve the next one.
Yep i was just thinking of putting hi grade sleeves in it to strengthen the chambers and block. Its as if your guys read my mind, 🦘🦘😎😎 Also noticed no gas ports in the top part of the piston, which is a must for hi hp applications turbo or supercharged engines it help proved the right pressure to expand the compression ring and help lube it as well.🦘🦘😎😎
Which do you think is better, M177 or M157? I feel like M157 has a lot of extra displacement, and both engines will need sleeves for high power levels.
M177 is different from BMW S55/S58/Audi EA855 in one interesting point. M177 between cylinder cooling drilling angles are narrow, thus giving these holes a crazy depth/diameter ratio. what that means is cooling holes tend to drift at the bottom, intruding into what the proper dry flanged sleeves would be at. The result. we fear coolant leak behind liners into crankcase. To clear these nasty difted cooling holes, we had to mill down to a certain depth, and wet sleeves we go. So given 99.9% M177 owners want less than 1000hp street builds with regular gasoline fuel, a wet sleeve conversion with better cooling all around will be a good solution for street / circuit race builds. We do not argue if this method will be stronger than dry flanged sleeving at drag racing 1500-2000hp range with alcohol fuel. Our customers couldn't care less. We give warranty against sleeve sinking and other machining defects. So they run worry free. that is what they care.
No gauges to check clearance, just plastigauge?! Wtf. Plastigauge gets you close but it's not as precise and reliable as actual gauges. 0.002 to 0.004 may not be a big deal for mains, but rod bearings and other places, it can be huge. Did you guys not even check rod bearing clearances on the big end? I'm guessing it just wasn't shown.
@@OxBlitzkriegxO The filming is scattered, sometimes there is just no spare hand to hold a camere. We do both measurement. And we also maintain 23 degree celcius temperature the whole process. We always follow the standard
@@ppmlabofficial well thank you for the reply, thats much appreciated. it was weird to see some detail and care taken in some places but not in others, was confusing to me.
Some more details about these late generation German engines with aftermarket rods. As you are aware of, aftermarket rods cannot be plastigauged due to the interference fit alignment rings and factory does not provide different rod bearings as say Toyota does on 1gr/3ur. So basically you are stuck with uni-size new bearings On the record, we hate this idea. What we do is using dial indicator to verify the rod big end ID is +0.01mm, for example 56.01, 59.01… we then use the mitutoyo sphere probe micrometer to check the new bearing thickness, for example 1.48 or 2.50mm. Finally we measure the rod journal diameter of the crank at 90degree apart for example 54.98mm. Then it becomes the simple yet tedious math to confirm the oil clearance of 1/1000 the journal OD as per mahle guideline. If it is close enough, we call it a day. If too tight, send the crank for belt sanding crank polish to take off maybe 0.005-0.01mm. If too loose too bad not much can be done. Luckily German engines of recent decade since for example N55/EA855/m157 have always had clearance on the tighter side. So we do have some leverage if larger clearance is preferred. I hope this clears some of your concerns.
@@ppm-lab made my day. :) i think a lot of people dont understand how tedious and time consuming it is to do all those measurements and try to get everything to either match as closely as possible or tailor them to fit. the very first engine i ever rebuilt, we used plastigauge, but it was a very mild mopar smallblock and it really didnt matter that much honestly. i bought a micrometer set and did actually do the measurements over a weekend (i was 18 and was learning as i went). i think everything was within 0.001, so it wasnt really useful in that instance but it was a good learning experience.
it seems my previous reply got lost somehow. As you can imagine aftermarket rod cannot be plastigauged due to the interference fit alignment rings on the cap. So must measure A (rod big end ID) B ( bearing thickness) C (crank rod journal ODs at 90 degree apart). The value of “A - B - C” is the rod bearing oil clearance
How many times a year do you get the torque wrenches certified and checked that they are accurate, after all using them when building hi output engines does take its toll on hi end torque wrenches or tools etc. 🦘🦘😎😎
Insane work
Very impressive 🔥👍
I am rebuilding a M177 myself but went the Nikasil route instead of sleeving. The acid for Nikasil does a number on that block. I will Darton sleeve the next one.
@@igotaction Try ours nex time
@@ppmlabofficial do you have a link to your website?
Yep i was just thinking of putting hi grade sleeves in it to strengthen the chambers and block. Its as if your guys read my mind, 🦘🦘😎😎
Also noticed no gas ports in the top part of the piston, which is a must for hi hp applications turbo or supercharged engines it help proved the right pressure to expand the compression ring and help lube it as well.🦘🦘😎😎
Yes Yes Yes Yes Vientos Padrísimo 💯 Extraordinario 💯 Armar Máquina Mercedes Benz 👍👉💪
ItalianRP wow
Where can i hear this run?👀
Which do you think is better, M177 or M157? I feel like M157 has a lot of extra displacement, and both engines will need sleeves for high power levels.
Extreme horsepower always 157 for large displacement. Street drive and daily commute always 177 for reliability
cost?
Ranging from 5k to 15k USD, depending on the pistons/rods choice etc.
First time I have seen a 'closed deck' block get machined for mid sleeves.
@@stevenreid-g2y Ours is different from MID but I got your idea. And they do MID to closed deck blocks like VR38 all the time
M177 is different from BMW S55/S58/Audi EA855 in one interesting point. M177 between cylinder cooling drilling angles are narrow, thus giving these holes a crazy depth/diameter ratio. what that means is cooling holes tend to drift at the bottom, intruding into what the proper dry flanged sleeves would be at. The result. we fear coolant leak behind liners into crankcase. To clear these nasty difted cooling holes, we had to mill down to a certain depth, and wet sleeves we go.
So given 99.9% M177 owners want less than 1000hp street builds with regular gasoline fuel, a wet sleeve conversion with better cooling all around will be a good solution for street / circuit race builds. We do not argue if this method will be stronger than dry flanged sleeving at drag racing 1500-2000hp range with alcohol fuel. Our customers couldn't care less. We give warranty against sleeve sinking and other machining defects. So they run worry free. that is what they care.
hey im coming here
be our guest
No gauges to check clearance, just plastigauge?! Wtf.
Plastigauge gets you close but it's not as precise and reliable as actual gauges. 0.002 to 0.004 may not be a big deal for mains, but rod bearings and other places, it can be huge.
Did you guys not even check rod bearing clearances on the big end? I'm guessing it just wasn't shown.
@@OxBlitzkriegxO The filming is scattered, sometimes there is just no spare hand to hold a camere. We do both measurement. And we also maintain 23 degree celcius temperature the whole process. We always follow the standard
@@ppmlabofficial well thank you for the reply, thats much appreciated.
it was weird to see some detail and care taken in some places but not in others, was confusing to me.
Some more details about these late generation German engines with aftermarket rods. As you are aware of, aftermarket rods cannot be plastigauged due to the interference fit alignment rings and factory does not provide different rod bearings as say Toyota does on 1gr/3ur.
So basically you are stuck with uni-size new bearings On the record, we hate this idea. What we do is using dial indicator to verify the rod big end ID is +0.01mm, for example 56.01, 59.01… we then use the mitutoyo sphere probe micrometer to check the new bearing thickness, for example 1.48 or 2.50mm. Finally we measure the rod journal diameter of the crank at 90degree apart for example 54.98mm. Then it becomes the simple yet tedious math to confirm the oil clearance of 1/1000 the journal OD as per mahle guideline.
If it is close enough, we call it a day. If too tight, send the crank for belt sanding crank polish to take off maybe 0.005-0.01mm. If too loose too bad not much can be done. Luckily German engines of recent decade since for example N55/EA855/m157 have always had clearance on the tighter side. So we do have some leverage if larger clearance is preferred.
I hope this clears some of your concerns.
@@ppm-lab made my day. :)
i think a lot of people dont understand how tedious and time consuming it is to do all those measurements and try to get everything to either match as closely as possible or tailor them to fit.
the very first engine i ever rebuilt, we used plastigauge, but it was a very mild mopar smallblock and it really didnt matter that much honestly. i bought a micrometer set and did actually do the measurements over a weekend (i was 18 and was learning as i went). i think everything was within 0.001, so it wasnt really useful in that instance but it was a good learning experience.
it seems my previous reply got lost somehow. As you can imagine aftermarket rod cannot be plastigauged due to the interference fit alignment rings on the cap. So must measure A (rod big end ID) B ( bearing thickness) C (crank rod journal ODs at 90 degree apart). The value of “A - B - C” is the rod bearing oil clearance
你负责修车的罗博士？
@@richeng8666 🤓🤓
@@ppmlabofficial 一上来就推你的视频，在抖音看过😂😂
How many times a year do you get the torque wrenches certified and checked that they are accurate, after all using them when building hi output engines does take its toll on hi end torque wrenches or tools etc. 🦘🦘😎😎