Ask Ian: Good Bullpup Conversions
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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From John on Patreon:
"You've covered your fair share of strange conversion of firearms. Have you ever come across a bullpup conversion that was actually useful, and not a kludge?"
Nope.
That's basically the whole answer.
Okay, to elaborate a bit, it's because making a bullpup use blue from either shoulder requires specific accommodation of the empty case ejection, and converting a standard rifle to bullpup configuration basically guarantees it will only be usable right-handed. Also, designing a good bullpup trigger requires specific intent in the design stage, and conversion triggers are always kludges. And lastly, the sights often end up mounted to some wobbly plastic extension.
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Don't forget the Hightower Armory bullpup conversion for the Hi-Point carbine..... It doesn't make it any worse (actually makes field stripping a little easier)....
That was my first thought as well. I've heard that they improved the Hi-Point quite a bit actually, though I have never handled one. I wonder if Ian is familiar with them.
I've had one for a few years. It makes the rifle even heavier(doh!), but it still runs like charm. Hi-Points are fugly, but ours has never once failed to operate.
You beat me to it! I actually really like my high tower conversion on my hi point 995. It takes a bad gun and makes it bad in a different way
I had their 10/22 PS90 conversion kit. Turned my 10/22 into a really nice ergonomic package. Unfortunately it was judged to be "too short" by the NZ Police 2 years back and it got handed over for destruction... 😞
@@chrisp.2544 lol, this guy complies with the law, lmao
Tbh im hoping the next gen trek 22 from desert tech comes with a regular grip and an integrated bipod.
I want a bullpup lower for bufferless AR uppers. I'm right handed so the ejection isn't an issue.
I'm surprised that the Reap Weaponries Scy conversion for AR15 was not mentioned. It's a grip, trigger & safety relocation kit for mil-spec lower though a dedicated bullpup lower would be the next step I think. Still new product & company. Poised to go far I think. There is at least one interview here on YT.
I would love to see a dedicated bullpup, funneled, poly lower for AR15 that would still allow the rearend of the upper to hinge away from the lower while maintaining pistol grip in your primary hand & leaving the other hand to detach & reattach the rear of upper & clear malfunction. Then, I think, the perfect fighting carbine can finally exist. Perhaps call it the "HWSB" or "How Would Stoner Bullpup?"
@@drag1286 thank you for taking the time to tell me about this. it's very interesting.
@@iamAwesomo1994 yw. Lovin' your screen name, btw!
Do you have a video of shooting that Grot carabines you mentioned?
"I thought about trying to go out there and actually tally out all the bullpup conversations"
I would watch a 5 hour video of Ian putting every bullpup conversion in a tier list
I second this notion. Would also be blissfully sadistic. 😂
Lol
Agreed gun jesus can talk as long as he desires and I would watch it.
I'll bring the beer.
I'm not against bullpups. Look, I have bullpups friends!
We see right through you Ian.
A few more lumps from brass to the face like most left handed shooters will convince him eventually :)
Ian from Forgotten Weapons Based Confirmed
@@mattthekiller9129 do you mean biased or based? Or something else?
@@george2113 Based
True bullpup haters don't have any bullpup friends
Ian within the first minute showing how well he knows his audience it's so wholesome
He is a member of some Facebook fan groups, and had posted an announcement in one of them once. Naturally, the group was excited when they realized he actually posted something there.
Not sure how it is on other platforms, though he at least observes the community.
Lol for sure, “you just love it bc it’s French!”
Q: Does Ian prefer French toast, or regular toast?
Audience: That's not even a question.
@@Bavid_Doughie HE DIDNT DENY IT
respect that man
Vektor CR21 got the coolest gun look when it was painted white and starred in 'District 9' movie. Its a great movie gun.
I'm convinced pretty much all Vektors were designed for movies because they certainly weren't designed for shooting.
...also being the rifle used by the human resistance in 'The Terminator' fighting their future war against Skynet.
district 9 discovered a way to make any gun look cool by painting it with stripes, and white paint
@@dj1NM3 No, the resistance weapon from "The Terminator" was the Finnish Valmet M82, a bullpup based on their earlier Rk62.
Design-wise, the CR-21 can be considered a close relative of the Valmet M82, since the CR-21 is a bullpup version of the South African R4 which is a copy of the Israeli Galil, which was in turn derived from the Rk62.
@@Mrcaffinebean There are a few you must have missed then...
I'd have to agree, if the weapon is designed from the ground up to be a bullpup, it has a "chance" to be quite good. P-90/PS-90 is another good example of what a bullpup should try to do, as far as accommodations go when trying to make the weapon have ambidextrous ejection, have a decent trigger, and make it easier to aim. There's another "accommodation" I think Ian could add:
Ease of manual clearing and remediation of the action. Kel-tec's RDB is a good example of a design that's quite good (for a Kel-Tec) until it jams.
_Step 1: field strip the weapon..._
Yeah I'd say the Tavor is a better example because the progressive trigger on the P90 is still pretty darn bad, whereas the Tavor trigger uses an AR-style trigger and there are geissele triggers for them if you want that nice crisp 3.5 lb. trigger that high end AR triggers are famous for.
This subject makes me think a lot about the semi-auto/selfloading conversions of bolt action rifles. There's only so much you can do to a weapon system designed to work a certain way... Conversions always have a certain appeal in the sense that you wouldn't need to go to the drawing board and design a brand new gun with brand new die sets and new assembly lines and so on. But throughout history that concept has been proven many times to be a deceptive downslope through endless troubleshooting (no pun intended) and unnecessarily complicated added parts to end up making "something" that is closer to the desired idea but doesn't work nicely (or at all) out of a firearm that is of an other design and maybe an older system, but that functions very well within the limitations of said design.
A bullpup bolt action. Stop, I could only get so wet.
straight-pull rifles had a lot more potential for conversion but by the time conversions were being attempted bolt actions were so dominant that it was kinda irrelevant. Cause afterall a conversion would need to be converting a very mass-produced and widespread rifle to be viable. If it's going to only have a couple hundred, you might as well purpose-build something.
@@WingMaster562 you'd practically have to reach behind yourself to cycle it lol
Yeah. In my experience, conversions tend to give you a bunch of added complexity, or something Rube Goldberg-esque. I've also noticed that hybrid designs in general often give you the worst of both worlds. Not just in gun design, but also in the tech industry. In my experience, and in my own biased opinion, I find that hybrid HDDs are not really worth it. You might as well (in my experience) go for a regular cheaper HDD, or just get a proper SSD. You see the same thing for exams with pistols that have a built in mechanism to lock the slide so that you have to manually cycle the action between every shot.
@@thepinkplushie check out the Thorneycroft episode here. It's bullpup and a bolt action handle is still the regular
I'd love to see Ian check out the Ukrainian Malyuk bullpup conversion of the AK once things have calmed down a bit over there. There doesn't seem to be much information about it out there on the internet.
The Malyuk isn’t a conversion - it is a ground up factory bullpup that uses AK action parts.
That may actually avoid some of the issues.
@@DriveCarToBar it's not a conversion. It's literally a redesign _based_ on the AK receiver but also the learnings of the Vepr (an actual conversion of an AK). You don't start with an AK and change parts. You build a Malyuk receiver from some AK parts and Malyuk parts and then a complete rifle from unique parts.
@@DriveCarToBar none of the Malyuks started their lives as AK, despite being virtually the same as standard AK parts, parts for Malyuk are proprietary made
@@DriveCarToBar so the AR-15, M4, M16 are all AR-10 conversions and in turn every single weapon based on those is also an AR-10 conversion. The world is a small place I guess.
@@Argosh no, it's is literally conversion, they took old Soviet AK's and turned them into bullpup.
I actually found the Hightower conversion to the hi-point carbine to be an improvement but that's more of an indictment of the hi-point than anything.
The Hightower 10/22 conversion is awesome and works great w bull barrels
The Desert Tech trek .22 is perfect.
Ian is just a stupid liar in this video and this proves he knows nothing about guns.
As some guy with a walrus mustache used to say, "it's not hard to improve on garbage."
@@vagitarian68419 Yep loved mine while I still had it. Made the 10/22 into a possum plinking beast.
@@chrisp.2544 🐿🔫
Man, this makes me so curious about those bullpup PKPs you see every once in a while. It seems like a really basic conversion, I'm mostly curious about the trigger set up
as a layman, I would guess that with a machine gun like a PK or m240 a good trigger isn't as big of a deal since their primary role is suppression and sustained fire, not marksmanship. I totally could be wrong but that's my guess.
@@rjmoskovitz2562 I mean yeah, I'm just curious if it's like a proper bar linkage or the somewhat goofy wire a lot of other bullpup conversions use. With the way the belt box is held in a unique position (which I'm assuming would require a proprietary part to mount it like that) it seems like a fairly high effort conversion for what it is.
I just want to know more about them, in my half assed attempts to look into them I've never really gotten anything more concrete than that they exist
@@Ezekiel_Allium yeah you're right there's almost nothing about the thing that's easy to find. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a wire lol
It just randomly shows up in video games from time to time.
@@rjmoskovitz2562 as another layman who only ever shot one machine gun in basic training I have to disagree with you.
The way I learned it is that you want short bursts. So maybe 3 or 4 rounds.
Now if your trigger sucks, I would assume that it is difficult to be precise enough to only fire short bursts.
Ukraine has it's relatively fresh Vulkan/Malyuk bullpup rifle based on AK mehanisms. A very interesting one.
I'm sure we'll get a video once the war is over.
It is not fresh, project started in 2002 with war on terror, but it is Ukrainian SOF main battle rifle and those guys don't use garbage
@@АндрійБулгаков maybe you have meant VEPR rifle? Seems like the vulkan/malyuk project has started in 2005 and they started using it since 2015.
First thing I thought of, but I guess I'd be surprised if Ian had gotten to hold one what with the war.
"Vepr" (not to be confused with RPK-based series of rifles and shotguns by VPO plant in Russia) is a straight-up example of "provincial factory does bullpup AK" bullshit that everyone in Eastern Bloc did in late 90s - early 00s. It's not even the worst example of the genre, but it has all of the problems Ian mentioned: right-hand-only cheekweld (because otherwise you're cheek-welding on AK selector and getting, at best, a facefull of gas), kludged-together trigger linkage (on top of already so-so mil-spec AK trigger) and wack sighting system (standard AK irons but the rear is an inch from your eye, and standard AK optics rail glommed onto welded-on receiver extension).
Malyuk is more of the same with better-looking plastics and typical mid-late '00s "AK modernization project" dumb shit like pic-rail on (extended, pin-attached) dustcover (new PoI after every field strip!), crossbolt-style trigger-lock safety, wack mag catch button right behind the trigger (so you can ND while you tac-reload) and a 5-slot pic-rail section right under the charging handle so you can drag your finger right across some rail while you jerk it under stress (at least that's detachable).
UA SOF love to pose with those guns very much (or, at least, their command loves to make them), but almost none have been found in combat so far, unlike NATO-supplied SCARs and SIGs or local-made AR-15s. Even hohols aren't stupid enough to go into combat with those kludges.
"I have never come across a bullpup conversion that wasn't crap"
Ian, you're a bloody legend. Keep up the good work!
For every bullpup lover whose feelings Ian hurt, there are at least five other viewers who got a laugh out of his absolutely brutal honesty. When Gun Jesus says bullpup conversions are crap, you can take it as the gospel truth.
@@jamesdalton2014 I'm a bullpup lover, and I totally agree with Ian because, as he has said, bullpups don't necessarily suck. It's the conversions that suck a lot.
The malyuk out of Ukraine looks like it would be pretty okay. Would be cool to get a close look on that thing
Trigger Linkage..
They are recruiting...
Well, Maluk been in development for decade or even more, but anyway, US gun standards are waay above common. In general, if it can shoot and git - the rifle is good
@@prfwrx2497 It's not a "drop-in" conversion, no, but does take AK-74 parts directly and puts them into a bullpup chassis, so it is a conversion of sorts.
@@alexandermarinin7036 I believe almost two decades as It was the continuation of a previous (failed) conversion project.
Im really enjoying the Ask Ian series!
To bad everything he said in this video is a stupid and outright lie in everyway.
@@robertsears8323 sure bud
@@russellschlotfeldt6206 I am 100% right as Ian just straight up LIED and lied in a very stupid way.
Sure you can say he did not lie as he just did not bring up the gun but not taking about it still makes him stupid.
@@robertsears8323 how
What about the Ukrainian AK conversion (Malyuk was the name, I think)? Afaik it's used by special forces, so it shouldn't be a complete pile of trash.
I'm not Ian, but honestly there's no way it's better than the Sako/Valmet one and that one is not great. The main advantage of the Malyuk is that it's a domestic rifle. I can't see any reason why it'd be superior to a standard AK.
@@hirumaryuei Their SOF is using it over tavors and AR-15s, so something might actually be there. Or they might be ordered to just deal with it and use the weapon they have.
@@JumaiPL ive seen footage of Ukrainian SF riding around in cars and trucks, makes sense that they would go for a bullpup. Its also great that it shares the same ammo and mags as the enemy so its easier to resupply. The tavor might not be more common in use due to the reasons above or it could be something stupid like our soldiers will use our gun because it looks better
When you start cutting into receivers is it really conversion? Looks like they are just using the hard to manufacture parts like bolts barrels and trunnions.
@@hirumaryuei Better than *standard* AK? I can think of a bunch of reasons, optics rail being major one.
Better than modernized AK (for example something with ZenitCo B-33 rail)? I dunno. I would have to handle Malyuk on my own to know.
But they are being used in war and not by your average grunts at that, hence my curiosity. I hope Ian can shed some light here (or maybe someone else who handled it)
I really like the High Tower Armory P90 clone for the Ruger 10/22. I know it’s technically just a stock, but it is a conversion with a linkage. It is 26” with an 18” barrel. Plus the trigger can modified with an incredible 2lb smooth trigger.
I would say the SA80 counts as a conversion. It is basically an AR18 converted to bullpup, and they did very little to actually make it work well as a bullpup( or at all really).
The fact that they set out to design a bullpup doesn't mitigate the fact they did it the cheapest and lowest effort way possible, but still managed to take too long and overcomplicate the process.
Like the US did with the M14.
Yeah, but the Steyr AUG is the same thing. Just better done.
I know it started development as straight up conversion, but doesn't the final production model have like receiver and other stuff that' designed specifically for it? Surely that would count as AR-18 derivative bullpup instead of conversion
@@JohnHughesChampigny the steyr uses the generally same operating mechanism for the bolt and recoil system, but outside of that is completely different in terms of manufacture of the receiver, the trigger mechanism, and how all the parts interact, as it was designed to be as good of a bullpup as could be and borrowed a known good bolt system( that was also very compact) along the way.
The SA80 however, didn't change much from the original mockups that were literally just bullpup conversions of AR18s. They lengthend the receiver( unnecessarily) forward and back, and slapped on some crappy plastic furniture and an optic, but the location of the fire selector, mag catch, the entire magwell, the bolt and charging handle setup, the dust cover, the fire control group are all nearly identical to the AR18. It has all the problems of a bullpup conversion, because it is one. It's just one built from the ground up because they really didn't know what they were doing, and it was the easiest way to meet the requirement of a 'bullpup'.
@@coolsenjoyer As I put it in my other comment, yeah it uses a new receiver, but all they did was lengthen it forward and back( IIRC, it might have had something to do with the prototypes were made using commercial Sterling AR18 recievers, and they got into a conflict because Sterling was offering its own in house bullpup conversion and they didn't want to pay for the rights to it).
@@mickvonbornemann3824 Well, the F90 is just a localized AUG, and the M17 is much more a direct AR18 derivative, but it also uses a completely different reciever layout and method of manufacturing, and I think a different FCG? The F2000 is essentially a forward eject AUG wrapped in even more plastic. IIRC the Tavor is a long stroke system so it just shares the multi lug bolt, so stretching it to call it an AR18. I can't recall any other major bullpups.
This is going to be incredibly niche, but the way Ian said 'These are not the only bullpups I like' reminded me of Jocat's 'Girls' song/animation.
Ah a man of culture
As bullpup lover, I'm completely agree with this. conversion 'conventional' to 'bullpup' is like a normal assault-rifle into LMG. there's not same purpose, not same goal, not same actions.
But the M14 was such a resounding success its never been repeated. LOL
The gun in the thumbnail looks like it was AI generated, but the fact that it's real makes it even funnier.
Ian only likes bullpups that are FAMAS or FAMAS derivatives /s
This actually gives me a related question: why are so many people making bullpup trigger linkages that try to push against the original trigger back in the receiver? If you set up that linkage so it pulls from the opposite side of the trigger axis pin, you have much less trouble with spongy triggers. You do get a bit more take-up, but I usually find that acceptable.
Ian sent me off to find the pronunciation of kludge. I have always pronounced it "klooj" but it turns out the Brits pronounce it to rhyme with judge. So, there you go.
O.o where you from? Its spelled and pronounced Cludge in the US. So yeah, just take the word judge, and swap the J for CL. No idea how you could think it was supposed to be "klooj"
It's given in the first Jargon File in 1976:
KLUDGE (kloodj) alt: KLUGE. From the German "kluge", clever. 1. A
Rube Goldberg device in hardware or software. 2. n. A clever
programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty case in an
efficient, if not clear, manner. Often used to repair bugs.
Often verges on being a crock. 3. Something that works for the
wrong reason.
I think kluge -- no "d" -- might have come up as a separate word, more negative.
I have usually heard ''klooj" from hardliners that cared; not this century. I never pronounced it that way, but I do pronounce GIF correctly.
@@davydatwood3158 what is the Australian version?
Hey Ian, I’m a patron on Patreon I just wanted to say I like these videos but I kinda like the full length q and a videos more will you ever go back to those?
maybe at the end of each month he can just compile all the separate Q&A's together into an hour or an hour and a half long video.
@@sptm5694 sounds like a good idea
I like that he can prepare for the answers more and that I can go straight to the question I'm interested in. I also like that he can use more visual aids
Maybe the lightning round style for questions that require less research/shorter answers each month, and then longer, in depth individual questions every so often.
The SKS bullpup conversion works great, still far from perfect though.
Ew. Hate those.
Considered doing it to mk SK, but didnt want to ruin my trigger pull and throw away my high cap mags. So close to being cool but they just make it a shorter , much worse rifle.
There is a WA-2000 style conversion for the 10/22 (I’m blanking on the name), that I’ve heard is actually decent.
Same with the High Tower 90/22 conversion.
However, that’s primarily cosmetic, and a .22, so it probably doesn’t count.
Are you thinking of the Desert Tech Trek-22 by chance?
I have a high tower hi point carbine bullpup kit and you can argue that it's only polishing a turd but it's a damn fine turd.
@@Weld0id I wasn’t referring to that, although I have seen ads for it.
Gotta say, love these shorter Q/A videos way more than the hour long ones you used to do. Good choice, Ian. 👍😁
Directly to the meat! 🥩
Possessing and shooting a Juggernaut M1A conversion, I reluctantly have to agree with Ian here. For me its less about the sights, and more about the mushy, sluggish trigger. If there was some way to design a "direct drive" linkage to connect the original trigger with the bullpup one that would help. This particular model (Juggernaut Rogue) uses essentially a rubber band to connect the trigger bar to the M1A trigger and allows to much slop. I am tempted to try running a pin through the bar and trigger to see if it would improve the situation (one that would allow the bar to rotate on the trigger), but I've yet to see a conversion that treats this issue with the design considerations that it really requires. That said, I love the form factor. Nice and compact. Weighs a ton, but that weight is tucked up close to center of mass, not out on the end of the rifle. Lots of rail space for scopes, RDS, etc.
I would argue the SA80 is a cludge conversion since it's basically a bullpuped AR-18.
I've always favored the Morita Mk I.
The only good bug is a dead bug!
Mossberg bullpup conversion is clearly the superior conversion
a question about the sa80 being purely righthanded and nothing else.Isn`t that from an infantry soldiers standpoint terribly inconvenient, as this means that you need to expose more of yourself around half of the corners in this world?
Yes it is inconvenient and that is probably the reason why the SAS and some other British units have opted to use conventional configuration rifles.
Not forgetting that the SA80 is essentially just a bullpup version of the AR18. And originally, yep, that sucked too.
There's a really good video on the subject Forgotten Weapons.
Oh, hang on, um......
Answer is...
Caseless ammo
Simple, Elegant
Brass
Most PROBLEMS are caused by BRASS cases.
Laser guns (power issues, minute damage and lack of kinetic energy)
Flechettes etc.. whatever...
After shooting, researching and taking a few Astronomy courses that's my answer.
The best bullpup conversion is, of course, the Morita rifle. ( ... Starship Troopers rifle. It's a Mini-14 or a AC556k under the shell)
The Moritas were based on the Muzzelite MZ14 conversion for the Mini-14/AC-556.
While they went to great lengths to give the Morita its own distinct look, the Muzzelite itself actually looked plenty futuristic right out of the box, so you see barely-modified versions in *a lot* of 90‘s era SciFi movies / TV shows, most notably Total Recall.
I have wondered why in a bullpup why the seer is not in the trigger group and the hammer/striker not be at the end of the linkage. The bullet does not care about the feel of the release, to the linkage flex would be removed from the shooter.
That’s an interesting idea.
I see a pattern here! Convertions of muzzle loaders into breach loaders... convertions of bolt actions into selfloaders... convertions of normal firearms into bullpups... almost every single time it's better to just start over with something designed from ground up.
At what point would you consider at to be a new design/redesign instead of a conversion?
Probably if you take the action and the fire control group it's a conversion.
It's certainly a question I'd like Ian to answer or at least try to
The problem is it's a very subjective question and probably comes down to what the designer was trying to achieve, the distinction being something along the lines of "I want to make a bullpup AR-15" opposed to "I want to make a bullpup that utilises off the shelf parts like mag well, pistol grip and handguard of an AR-15"
Ian, have you ever seen the conversion kits made by CBRPS? They're pretty interesting looking, but I've never had one to mess with.
I am extremely excited for the inevitable Ukrainian Malyuk bullpup video one day. Nobody can really agree on if it's a conversion or a new rifle with some stock parts. Nor can they agree on if it's good or not. From some GoPro combat footage I've seen of one (Civ Div), it looks really professional and well made, though of course looks can be deceiving. I hope it's awesome, especially for the embarrassment of having Ukraine make a better modernized AK than Russia's hamfisted bubba'd-out AK-12.
I cant wait for ian to get hands on a ukrainian malyuk after the war and tell us how and why that thing got accepted and produced in a country at war. You'd think wartime procurement would focus more on practicality than on gimmicks like bulpup conversions there has to be an interesting story behind it
You should touch on the Ukrainian Malyk or however its spelled. Definitely an interesting conversion, simply for the fact that it was formally adopted by a military.
If it's not a Bullpup from the Factory, don't Bullpup your wallet 🤔🤣👍
Would love to see you get your hands on a Malyuk (bulpupped AK in use with the Ukranian military)
People say they are pretty happy with the bullpup conversion for the Hi Point carbine. I dunno
Thanks again Ian for your knowledge and understanding of the function of bullpups I really like the new VHS2 and I almost just bought one but I bought a brand new Ruger SFAR in 308 it is super light.
I might still buy a VHS2 someday?
Thanks again Ian.
I have a SGW bullpup conversion kit for the sks and I like it. No ambi controls but works well as a plinking gun.
Can't say I am surprised. The problem here, as with many times before, that a conversion of a older rifle is rarely going to be as good as a one designed from the ground up.
Wait what about the Malyuk conversion that is being used in Ukraine? Would you say even that is garbage or are you not adding it into the equation
I love this video. It’s good to know that you think you already knew something but you’re wrong. I really like how much I have learned from this Ask Ian content
Ian is not only wrong but is a outright liar in this video.
There's also the matter of operators safety. If you're building the rifle as a bullpup, you know to make accomodations for the fact that the action is going to be right next to the shooter's face. Even the QBZ95/Type 97, essentially just an AK pattern rifle built as a bullpup, has a built up trunnion and pressure release venting to protect the shooter in case of a catastrophic malfunction. Converted rifles won't have that.
I will say that the only bullpup conversion rifle that I think is actually good is the Ukranian Malyuk/Vulcan rifle. That has got to be the most tasteful ak Bullpup I’ve ever seen! It even has a brass deflecter and a relocated ambi charging handle for Ambidextrous use
The trek .22 from Desert Tech is by far the most perfect way to shoot a 10/22.
There are people who claim that the L85 can fired from the left shoulder by using the RMR mounted on top of the Elcan but as they fail to describe the methods used for such shooting these claims seem dubious at best.
I've seen training footage of it being done on RUclips. When taking a left corner, they simply switch shoulders and keep the face well back from the ejection port. There's no secret technique beyond that, although it's not something I'd want to do.
0:40 Ah yes, the French rifle and the almost French rifle.
What are your thoughts on the Ukrainian Malyuk Bullpup?
Any thoughts on the Tavor? I’ve been thinking about purchasing one.
1:50 I came to this realization myself and I think most bullpup design comes from an adaptation of a standard system because designers are, by default, familiar with standard setups and naturally start there.
So are the long-form q&a videos no longer a thing? Haven’t seen them for a while
FN-P(S)90 is probably one of the best bullpup examples out there, bigger ammo capacity is one of the good reasons for a bullpup because it pulls back the center of mass, making if less tiresome to wield it, in addition to it's small size. If there was a tally of firearms ranked by volume to firepower ratio, I imagine it would be pretty high.
Still, future technology could make bullpup the most desirable configuration. Electrically primed firearms and caseless ammo eliminates both otf the bigges problems of bullpups that is trigger placement and case ejection angle.
I know InRange did a short piece on the Polish MSBS, but are you planning on ever releasing a FW on it?
Yes, I have a full video filmed, but not yet scheduled.
@@ForgottenWeapons Please schedule it. I would love to see it.
I would love a deep dive on making good/really good bullpup triggers.
keltec is OK.
Bullpups are a nice option only at the range.
I am a low level patreon, but I just cant think of a good small arms related question. Well, maybe one day.
VHS-2 is Gun Jesus approved
2:23 Ian, isn't the SA80 / L85 sort of an AR-18 that's been converted to be a bullpup though? And since the L85A1 was a bit rubbish and the A2 is actually alright does that make it sort of a bullpupped AR-18 that was first bullpupped badly but not in a way that it was the bullpupping itself that was the fundamental problem? I suppose the argument against that is everything based on the AR-18 that was better than the L85A1 from the outset.
that not really a conversion
the rifle was built from the group up as a bulupup on the basis of the ar18 mechanism
conversion implies a deign originally a standard rifle being modified into a bulpup
Early gang
wassup!?
Eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Having trigger hand at the muzzle with full hand protection and brace hand on top is the, only way to use a bull pup.
I second this notion.
Brandon Herrera is having a fit watching this.
I actually have a soft spot for the Tavor 21.
Bro, I thought the Famas sucked!
How can someone who made their initial money in computers think that kluge is pronounced like fudge?
Spending too much time hanging out with Europeans. I agree, should rhyme with Stooge, but apparently the Brits pronounce it to rhyme with fudge.
Can't wait for Ian to get his hands on a ukrainian malyuk bullpup conversion some day, hopefully! They seem pretty solid for a conversion
I'm actually shocked that nobody has thought of a bullpup Beretta ARX. That gun is the perfect bullpup to be, IT CHANGES THE EJECTION SIDE WITH THE PRESS OF A BUTTON, everything is ambi.
One wonders if any enterprising individual has, instead of having a length of metal connecting the trigger and striker mechanism, tried to make it electronic? Solenoids, switches and such. I know here were those electrically fired rifles with special rounds, one was covered on this channel, so, electronic firing mechanisms aren't unheard of.
It would never get approved by the ATF if it's semiautomatic. Too "easily convertible to a machine gun" for them.
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 Oo, true enough.
This video is exactly why I want to see the AK guy forced to have to bulpup an AK... Ian... Promise him a Forgotten weapons collab special if he gives us the 'yugopup'...
He simply couldn't refuse such torture for that opportunity...
I wonder if Ian would say that the Norinco Type 86S counts as a conversion because of all the parts that it shares with the AK
I'd also love to hear his thoughts on that rifle in general. It seems like the design was much less clumsy than other attempts to make bullpup AKs
You should do a book on how & how not to make/design/market a gun
I suppose if you really stretch the definition of "conversion" in the sense that the action is based off the AR-18 like many other guns, I suppose the FN F2000 would be a decent example? But that's not exactly a full on conversion. The closest full on conversion of a bullpupped AR-18 is the L85 and that was a bit if a disaster.
The only bullpup conversion I recommend are the ones for the Ruger 10/22.
Any particular brand of those that you recommend? The shortcomings of bullpups become kinda moot if you are talking about a non fighting rifle. Could be a really handy camp/survival tool.
@@jeremyharshey4974 High Tower Armory with a faux suppressor. You can still find them on Brownells around $300. Not cheap, but if history has taught anything, is that cool tactical .22lr don’t last for long
Ian also loves the EM-2 if I recall correctly.
...a number years sgo...prolly 10 or so I was at the Melbourne, FL show...dude there had a semi FAMAS along with the FAMAS air rifle trainer..dude also had a Hotchkiss Universal in Semi....
What those 1980's adverts in Guns and Ammo for the Mini 14 and 10-22 Bullpup conversions are crappy.. No Way.......
The big problem with bullpups is the swapping of handedness -- sure, most you can set it up either way, but what if you have to switch hands to peek around a corner holding it the way it's not set up for?
I have a Tavor, and I pull my face way back when shooting lefty. The sight picture is awful, but since I only see this for short range shots, I just deal with it.
FN2000. MDR.
Not even the Bullpup chassis for the Mossberg 500 and Remington 870? I like it. Seems to work for either shoulder and isn’t ridiculously expensive.
I saw a Ruger 10/22 to FN PS90(ish) conversion which looked pretty cool. Obviously, it still used 10/22 magazines. Briefly saw it being shot at the range. Not sure how well it functions.
I'm surprised that the Reap Weaponries Scy conversion for AR15 was not mentioned. It's a grip, trigger & safety relocation kit for mil-spec lower though a dedicated bullpup lower would be the next step I think. Still new product & company. Poised to go far I think. There is at least one interview here on YT.
I would love to see a dedicated bullpup, funneled, poly lower for AR15 that would still allow the rearend of the upper to hinge away from the lower while maintaining pistol grip in your primary hand & leaving the other hand to detach & reattach the rear of upper & clear malfunction. Then, I think, the perfect fighting carbine can finally exist. Perhaps call it the "HWSB" or "How Would Stoner Bullpup?"
If only HK actually made a good Bullpup instead of just constantly fixing everyone else's. In fact, i think the French Army are going HK?, cant remember the designation, but the French Foreign Legion is following suit but still mixed with the FAMAS.
In the RAF with the SA80A2 rifles, the lefties that complained and asked how to change it for left hand firing, the drill segrent would just Chew them up and get them to write a letter to quartermaster asking for custom made rifles as they are left handed, then he would just slap them with the letters and rip them up lol.
They got abysmal scores when shooting.
The A2 was not a bad rifle but it was a bullpup and in no way a good rifle the A1s sounded awfull, the triggers varied wildly from good to god awful, it was heavy, the SUSAT optics where heavy and in training if you broke one it was classed as hazardous radioactive material, slower to realod than a conventional rifle, it had good accuracy for a non-free floated barrel, I suppose the best thing is had going was a 20 inch barrel in a small package to get maximum velocity and fragmentation from 5.56
The whole thing was one big failure from start to finish, the amount of money they spent on the SA80A2 then the H+K A2 conversion now the H+K A3 conversion that's just mostly a new selector, cere coat and a free float handrail.
It cost a fortune they should have gone with a conventional 20 inch fancy AR18 style rifle or AR15 style.
Would have been cheap and easy to modernize.
Everyone loves the American made AR10 style DMR rifles in service.
Whenever we went to USAF bases and would shoot M16s and M4s, the first time we handled one it felt like a feather, comfortable to shoot, fast to reload balanced, left handed people could use them.
At first I assumed it was a very expensive rifle but later looking at the cost of the M16A2 and M16A4 vs the SA80A1 then the added cost of the A2 it made no sense.
I'm sure NATOnwill be thrilled with the M5 and it's ammo but somehow I don't think then M16 and M4 are going anywhere.
Personaly I love the T91, I love how tiny Taiwan got the machinery to make ARs and just said we can make them better, I have a close as possible rifle to a T91 a %80 ar lower with all the T91 markings, a T91 upper and 20 inch CHF CL barrel, also the furniture and flash hider and open sights from Taiwan. it may have been related to the wolf A1 upper but I think different importer and the parts are different.
I used jurry rigged a free float hand tube so you could have a stock A1 or A2 hand guard but have it free floated.
I did the same on my M16A1 Vietnam era clone.
I don't own and 5.56 rifles under 18 inches.
I think bullpups can still be useful for 2nd line troops that need a weapon that's short and handy and can even have a full sized barrel.
The VHS is a great rifle but the name....... VHS, maybe Zastavas bullpup will be called the DVD or betamax.
The Chinese PLA are moving away from bullpups.
The type 95 is OK but the safety position is in the worst place.
Now they are moving to more conventional 5.8 assault rifles like the Type 03 (the only assault rifle I know or that had a female developer)
And the Type 05 that looks alot like the IWI Ace.
It's possible Canada could better civilian rifles soon but I'm sure red tape will swap that.
I don't think norinco makes AKs any more I know China makes some sus AKs for export, I have no idea if they make new 7.62x39 or just sell surplus.
Norncos most popular assault rifle for export is their own version of the M16 or M4 and they make alot of brass case 5.56.
The Norico AR15 type rifles are apparently pretty good quality, not as good as the west but close and the ammo is supposed to be pretty good, very surprised they only make brass case with no bi metal jackets only copper.
China won't export the 5.8 assault rifle cartridge or 5.8 pistol/SMG cartridge.
They are all laqured steel cases with bi metal jackets, look berdan primed no idea if corrosive with a steel core or hardened steel / tungsten penetrator.
I lived in China a long time and shot quite a few (twice a year they have to take stock so they shoot all the ammo they have down to emergency levels, same with RPGs, grenades and hand grenades.
They also destroy bad magazines and problematic weapons so they get more ammo, more weapons and more funding)
It's hard to say but the 5.8 felt like it had just a little more kick than 5.56 or 5.45, did not have much of a taper compared to most conblockn ammo, was accurate.
They keep using 54r for machine guns and DMR rifles, soviet 12.7 for heavy machine guns and anti material rifles.
I have not see it but apparently they have a home grown sniper rifle that takes domestically made .338L
The service handgun is a pleasure to shoot and load, double stack double feed with a DA/SA with exposed hammer and nice trigger, take 20 rounds.
Similar to a FN 5 7 but with the trigger is so much better it feltnablittlenkitrnsnaooy then a 5.7
It seems AKs are the most converted rifles to bullpups, some look cool but the extended trigger linkage is basically a part of a wire coat hanger, they have to add some stuff to cover the trigger mech, make iron sights viable and have a solid optic mount.
Some are much better than others but none are great at all.
Maybe a few decent prototypes are out in the wild.
Never seen a SKS conversion that was not a total bubba.
I have seen some awful mosin and mauser bullpups that look so bad and look like a pig to shoot.
Worst thing I have ever done was I got a mosin, nice with matching numbers and a great bore but the barrel was bent towards the end so I cut it down to about 20 inches, recrowned it, reblued the muzzle and cut stained and varnished the wood down so it just looked like a normal mosin but shorter, the front sight was hard to remove then install on the new barrel, adjusting the zero was fine, passed all barrel bend mandrel check for a .30 cal
It's my most accurate soviet mosin (my Finnish mosins are the most accurate)
I think it's more accurate due to the fact what was left of the barrel was quite thick so little or no barrel whip.
Suprisngly only a couple if hundred less FPS but its very loud with a huge fireball.
It's a shame its probably the end of surpluss. I have crates of mosins, yugo mausers, Finnish and Swiss rifles even some Turkish and South American mausers and all types of milsupr guns and litraly tonnes of millsurp ammo.
Same with barreled AK parts kits that you could get for under 50 dollars a kit in bulk.
74s even less at one point.
When they first come into the country they are super cheap, for me millsurp, kits, ammo and other guns have turned out to be one of the best investments. Its a safe investment you won't loose money unlike stocks but they go up very fast and the longer you hold onto them the more you can get.
The millsurp market has been realy bad now for a long time so now I mostly buy steel sports rolex watches from ADs but that's a waiting list game and never sure if the bubble will pop but won't loose money.
I do feel sorry that people can't shoot
.223, 7.62x39, 9mm and such for 20 cents a round if you buy Russian steel bulk, I always knew it would be banned but I hoped it would be a temporary ban, unless other nations can take up the slack by making steel case 7.62x39, .223, 5.45, 54r, 9mm .308 and such (I'm sure so many ex wasr nations have the equitment)
Then ammo will just get more and more expensive, of course it won't realy go down until the war in Ukraine is over.
Hopefully if they win they could produce some extra ammo.
Alot of AP ammo from Turkey came into the US, someone imported them and sold them off cheap I was lucky my dog managed to buy a few crates.
PSA said it would import used machinery to make 7.62x39 and 5.45 (maybe . 223)
And have it made in the US or components made in Eastern Europe thenbfobished in the US but in sure it would be double the price.
The Russian ammo ban has effected the price of all makes and calibers, maybe 5.45x39 could become a rare collectable type of ammo in the US.
I wonder what Ian would think of the Trek-22 by Desert Tech. I thoroughly enjoy mine, almost as much as my UTAS-15 with both having splendid triggers. You end up taking the time tested design and parts rich platform of the Ruger 10/22, and then shave off all of the overall length, and a nice chunk of weight AND can hold three rotary magazines. I do worry about holding zero however. Might swap to irons and not my usual optic.
Back in '90, I had a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle that I bought with a decent Ramline folding stock. I saw this "cool" bullpup conversion stock for the Mini-14 and decided that it would be a great idea. Well, I was wrong. Of course, I was wrong about a lot of things when I was 20 years old. I still think bullpups are kind of cool in their way, just... well... We all know now.
I would argue converting a Ruger AC556k into a Morita bullpup is a win-win. Who needs sights when it magically becomes a larger caliber with a nearly unlimited magazine, plus a shotgun for those "close encounters"
20 minutes ago I just had the idea of bullpupping my Remington 7615.. first video I watched
I wonder if Ian's experienced CZ's / Manticore (I think) bullpup Scorpion project for this question.
Ian, can you recommend a standard and/or bullpup configuration conversion for the Winchester Wildcat 22 LR action?
The IWI Tavor with the Geissele trigger pack and lightning bow is better than 90% of all AR’s and every rack grade military M4. End of story and is absolutely better then the two rifles in the background of this video
And it’s not up for debate the X95 or even a SAR tavor with Geissele fire control components is just better.
This question is completely off topic but I’m too curious not to ask. Ian did you meet your wife before or after you became “gun Jesus “ ? And if you met her after you became “gun Jesus “ how did the conversation go with her when you had to explain that “you may have talked to other guys who “”like”” guns but I’m a little different LOVE guns so much and am so knowledgeable on the topic that my followers lovingly know me by Gun Jesus” ?
Have you gotten to try the ak bullpup that Ukraine makes and is generally in use by their special forces?