My dad was 101s Airborne in WWII, I have that folding rifle and the pouch that attached to the leg in the safe, I bought it for him for his birthday. He is still alive and will be 100 in March.
@@mac11380 sad I was just going to say the same thing but I hope you still have that beautiful gun as I don't have the one my dad got from my great uncle. We're Canadian and I'm not exactly sure how he got it but from the story we got he traded for some alcohol as we got a bigger ration and easier ability to get alcohol wherever in Europe they were stationed. I think it sas actually an m1 a2 as it was fully automatic and was not ever brought out much and I think when our gun laws became more harsh my dad actually turned it in so we didn't lose our other rifles
As someone who spent many years in the Army, I can assure you the powers that be would be more concerned about breaking the Garand, the Paratrooper, not so much.
If you were talking about a standard troop I would definitely agree with you but someone like a paratrooper who has had thousands if not millions of dollars invested into their training (for the modern day depending on exactly what type of special forces troop they are) I think the military would be more concerned with replacing the rifle because it would be cheaper and easier to buy a new rifle than to train a new troop to fill that guys role. Standard infantryman though? Fuck him he better bring back all his issued shit or have a really good fucking reason why he only brought back 3 of his 4 issued magazines.
@@nunyabusiness4904 in the second world war, american paratroopers were standard light infantry, the only difference was that paratroopers were ALL volunteers, no draftees, and they only had light weapons
I have been kicking myself for years because I bought a M1A1 carbine at a local gun store for $700 years ago and ended up selling it. Knowing that it may have been a fake makes me feel a little better but the pain is still there. I wake up sometimes in a cold sweat and my girlfriend tells me I was screaming "Inland!" in me sleep. I'll have to buy another one eventually in order to shake the nightmares.
TwentythreePER inland was the best I ever had I converted it to m2 full auto and that was really fun... I loved it till we parted ways in the 90s...it can really sing a great song... thought I’d share this with you...
all though the inland is good start and a great house to house weapon,it lacks the true distance standard of the Garand.suggest the scout and socom 16 scout is same rifle with 18in barrel a good 500 yard weapon. the longer version is a a good 800 or even 1000 yard delivering 1000+ ft lbs to 1000 yard out pacing in averages all other weapon configurations.308 winchester or NATO 7.62x 51 are best all around weapons platforms.{ laymens terms} will knock a 400lb deer off his feet at 1000 yards! A man off his feet at 1760 yards or 1 mile.
Maintenance Report A-44519: Paratrooper, Model 1944, returned by Lt. Harrison with complaints of mobility issues and a constant screeching noise emanating from the trooper during drop before unit stopped functioning completely. Examination revealed several stress fractures in the lower leg assembly and main spine axle. Fractures determined to be the result of excessive torque placed on main body by overextending rifle catching on scenery during drop. Action Taken: Damaged parts realigned and reinforcing bars secured into place with olive drab reinforcement tape and gypsum plaster. Unit shipped back to front. Recommended Follow-up: Lt. Harrison is to allow 3-7 weeks for the repairs to set and to apply liberal amounts of standard drinking water daily. Installation of a shorter rifle is also highly recommended to avoid repeat issues.
Had a chance to jump these in the early 60s. You're right about the stocks being really skeezy, and anyone jumping one of these in that damn canvas leg holster was asking for a broken hip. Consensus in my unit was that you were a lot better off jumping with a M3 Grease Gun tied off to the lower flap of your Reserve
@@garymitchell5899 Are you telling me Vietnam vets don't exist anymore? Why is his story so far fetched? The M1A1 was still in use in the early part of Vietnam as a lighter alternative to the M14.
My uncle was in the 117th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron during the war. They had some interaction with the 82nd Airborne in North Africa, and ended up with a bunch of M1A1 carbines. There’s photographic evidence of their troopers with the weapons in Morocco. I have two pics of him with the weapon. He said the wire stock was lousy. Wiggly.
hockeyskull happened to me as well once, on Crete. Kept them grounded to prevent further damage. That worked until I went to the Casino and partied with some Poles.
Just a footnote, my late dad served in the 82nd Airborne in 1944 and jumped on D-Day. I asked him what he carried and he said an M-1 Garand which he described as a “perfectly suitable weapon”. He came to the division as one of the replacements for the losses in Sicily and told me that there were soldiers in his outfit who used bolt action rifles and some had carbines. He seemed to think that the men who carried bolt action rifles had peace time experience as hunters and he couldn’t see the point of carrying a carbine. My dad came to the USA as a 5 year old from Northern Ireland and grew up in Brooklyn NY and never mentioned any involvement with guns before the Army. He served in the NYPD for 27 years after the war and owned only his 38 caliber Smith&Wesson service revolver and his 38 snub nose off duty gun. He was not a gun buff and his experience of documenting shooting accidents in the NYPD. left him in doubt of the wisdom of having “guns around the house”. In ‘44 he was captured by the Germans soon after his jump and escaped from the POW camp in the Sudetenland the following spring. His half-starved condition prevented him from returning to combat and he spent the rest of his time until discharge in an Army hospital. He was quite clear about jumping with an M1 Garand and the other weapons that the guys in the outfit carried. I suppose that he could have been talking about the Paratrooper Carbine that you exhibited but his description suggests that by 1944 many paratroopers carried a variety of rifles.
The vast majority of US paratroopers carried the m1 garand in ww2 I believe it was only assistant gunners and radio men that had the carbine, but of course I’m sure some men chose to carry the carbine over the garand, even though there were only meant to carry what they were issued with, for instance dick winters of the 506th PIR 101st airborne would have been issued with a Thompson but he chose to carry the garand instead
I have an original one it's manufacture date was 11/44. It was passed on to me by my grandfather who was army, then army Air corps, the he was retired with the Air Force. He was a tail gunner and eventually managed one of the NCO clubs in England. He made me clean this weapon every time I got to visit with him. In my almost teenage years I used it to hunt whitetail on my Grandfathers land. I'm 52 years old now. The weapon is still almost perfect. Any scuffs that are on it happened before I had it full time. I love this rifle!
Love WW2 Martial arms and the M1 Carbine specifically. Have owned 10 over the years with only 8 in possession now to include an M2 and an authentic, AA-marked arsenal rebuilt M1A1. Thanks for the video.
I have a modern reproduction M1A1 and its a very fun gun to play with and enjoy. I also have 2 original standard M1 Carbines that round out the collection nicely. I enjoy your videos.
Our family owns a real M1 Carbine because we are friends with a Korean War veteran and he did so well in combat that his commanding officer allowed him to keep his M1 Carbine. He gave his Carbine to our family as a gift.
That #4 on the casting would likely be the impression number as opposed to the hour. Parts like this would be made using a "matchplate", with many impressions on each, to make several parts per mold. Being that they are identical parts, the foundry would number each impression for troubleshooting purposes. If say casting #10 were consistently defective, corrective action could be taken
I enjoy your presentations. Memories of them take me back to 1963 when I was the Arms Room officer in my high school ROTC program. We had about 200 M1 Garands, 3 M1A1 Carbine's, 10 M1 Carbine's, 2 BAR's and 2 1911 Colt pistols. Of course, all were leftover from WWII with firing pins removed but the study of with dissembling and reassembling every week which was required for cleaning as well as drilling with them twice a week was enjoyable for a 16-17 year old boy.
Ian, according to the article "Rock Island Rebuilds" by Bruce N. Canfield, found in the Spring 2001 GCA Journal, the presence of a "RIA/EB" stamp on the stock indicates that it was rebuilt at RIA between Jan. of 1946 and Apr. of 1958. It was during this period that Elmer Bjerke was the foreman of small arms inspection at Rock Island Arsenal.
While some may argue that putting this information out aids in the production of fakes, I would say that it has far more value to those who are trying to understand what they are buying. It is preferable to have this arrangement than one where collectors have less information to verify the authenticity of items. I was quite shocked to see the negative reaction on this (and the recent Luger) video.
A few things: -The M1 Garand was still the primary weapon for the majority of the paratroopers in an airborne light infantry company. -The MTOE for an airborne light infantry company (for D-Day) was 8 officers and 119 soldiers split into a headquarters section of 2 officers and 14 enlisted and three platoons of 2 officers and 34 enlisted. The platoons were further divided into 2 rifle squads and a mortar squad each. - only 21 total MTOE positions were assigned M1A1 carbines, usually for all of the officers and all of the weapons teams as backup weapons. The MTOE also allowed for 6 M1 or M1A1 Thompsons to be swapped in for one of the weapons. This allowed for the odd/interesting combinations that did not align with the MTOE and why some officers and NCOs carried M1 Garands or M1 Thompsons.
I have had two .30 carbines and sadly the original one I had I sold for $100 a few years ago. It was shot out and the rounds wobbled going down the barrel. The other one I still have was a fake one made after WW II down in Florida. It shoots great and parts are interchangeable with the real one. Out to 200 yards it is accurate and extremely effective. In all the times I have used it to take game it has been a very efficient weapon and I have 5 round, 10 round, 15 round, 20 round and 30 round mags for it. Lots of fun to shoot and a good weapon to start a non shooter off on in my opinion.
The "star" and number on the but plate most likely indicate a cavity number; seeing the size, the mould most likely had multiple cavities, so multiple products could be moulded in a single pouring. If multiple products have problems, one could identify the cavity with the problems and address them in only that cavity
Yep. Either that, or month of manufacture. Hour of casting would be too much hassle to keep swapping around, but updating once a month for batch control would be easy enough. If you look on things like PMags, you'll see a circle with an arrow, pointing at a number from 1 to 12 indicating the month of manufacture. But since these were all done in two batches, I'd wager it's much more likely that this is a cavity number on the buttstocks. I doubt these runs took 12 months to produce and if we know it runs that range, there must be examples of them all, which points to 12 cavities used for probably only a couple months for each batch.
Thanks for this info. A little covered aspect of collecting are the protocols, routines and procedures that the individual parts were made before assembly. I believe there is a niche among serious collectors for this information. (Granted, some viewers of this channel are little more than 'bubbas', that call Ian 'gun jesus', and can't wait to hacksaw sporterize, great grandpa's mint '03 Springfield, to shoot Tennerite, but fortunately there are many more serious collectors/enthusiasts here also.)
I have had one of these for years and always thought it was going to be worth a lot of money one day,now it turns out that it is an original Inland receiver but with repro wood and repro stock.Thanks Ian
Due to Dutch law in the past, all M1A1 folding stocks were welded so they couldn't fold any more. Making a valuable collectors piece worthless instead...
Please do this with AK rifles. I can differentiate between different AK rifles but many cannot. And many won't even believe me when i tell them "dude, your rifle is not AK 47 bro, its a Chinese type 56" Edit: don't understand why people are getting angry but this is my opinion. I have no problem whatever you call your AK. But I get upset when they deny the truth
nathan buck hmm true. If he just tells how to find out if its real, then there wont be any need to make for every rifle. Or he could do the main variants
Most airborne troopers continued to carry Garands. I have a picture of my late uncle who was in the 101st Airborne Div. The pic was taken in Zell Am See and he is equipped with a Garand. Most of them did not like the M1 Carbine because of its lack of stopping or penetrating power compared to the 30.06 Garand. One notable Airborne soldier who “ditched” his carbine in favor of a Garand was MG James Gavin. He talks about this in his book On to Berlin.
He checked off his equipment and made sure his pack was tight. He had to sit and listen to those awful engines roar - You ain't gonna jump no more! Proud to say my great-uncle was part of the 101st Airborne, IIRC 502nd, D company. I can't help but smile whenever I hear that song, morbid as it is.
Pretty cool! I was told by a gun shop owner (who was very smug in his knowledge, by the way) that the M1A1 was also issued to tankers, according to some book he read, and the older gentleman selling his on consignment who 'carried it on his Sherman at Anzio', according to the gun shop owner.
Excellent Series Ian I Can’t Wait Till The Next One You Make . I’m Learning a Lot Of Valuable Information From These Please Do More Of Them Thank You Gun Jesus 😀😃😎👍🏼
On d day most of the leg bags were ripped off when they jumped out and they lost there weapon. Dick winters from 101st easy company explained what happened. The pilots were flying way too fast due to all the flak and it being dark out.
I have always been interested about, what weapon would Ian choose if he would've been an American soldier back in WW2? Out of the American used small arms of course.
Ian, the early war method of parachuting with an M1 RIFLE was to break it down and carry it in a padded bag ("Griswold Bag"). One can imagine jumping into the unknown with a disassembled rifle! As units gained experience they found out how to jump with an assenbled M1.
My father (339TH INF. Italy) didn't care for the, "flimsy", folding stock. He said the standard carbine was great for herding prisoners, but he loved his Garand.
I jumped with a M240B quite a bit. Never had any issues. Over 30 jumps and my only issue was jumping from a Blackhawk in the winter, dropping straight down into the ice, in Alaska. I slipped, hit my head and had a concussion for a few days. Most incidents are the soldiers faults in my opinion. Every guy I knew that had a bad incident was the “nervous” jumper in the unit at the time.
I believe their was 13 companies in total that built m-1 carbines I have a Rock Ola Paid $125.00 for it when I was 16 years old in 1985. Keep up the good work with the info your giving
My dad has one of these and I have the standard. We almost never take his out since shooting with a full stock is far better IMO. I would also like to note, beech wood could have original metal, They were surplussed to the greeks after the war and they often used beech instead.
I've always suspected that I had a fake folding stock, especially since the circle P is missing, theres no nomenclature on the buttstock and the stock isn't Walnut. It is stamped "OI" and the grip is stamped "RI" and underneath that is "8". I have an standard Inland carbine and it come directly from the Toole Army Depot (in 1961 through the DCM). It was totally arsenal reconditioned with bayonet lug, adjustable rear site and a Marlin barrel and was in like new condition, reparkerized too I believe. Paid $17.50 + 2.50 for shipping and handling! I bought the folding stock years ago and it was only $60.00. I've never fired the carbine with the folding stock...
I'd like to state for the record that many paratroopers in WW2 did indeed drop with M1 Garands, it's a common misconception that these guns outright replaced the Garand in paratrooper service. In reality it was a supplement for the Garand, as was the full stock M1 in the regular infantry, most riflemen preferred to use the M1 for the extra range and punch.
I assume you mean most preferred the M1 Garand and not the M1 Carbine because the M1 Carbine had terrible range compared to the Garand. This became a serious issue during a key battle during the race to the Rhine river after D-day.
@@geodes6722 it should be noted a lot of them quickly traded in their M1A1s for M1s once their initial landing operations had been finished, again, for the extra punch and range.
@@trainknut General Gavin himself originally had an M1 carbine and gave it up for a Garand. In his book “On to Berlin”, he had nothing good to say about the carbine!
The one I liked, the stock just injected into the rifle, it did not fold. I like the rifles lack of stock for self defense purposes and it is unconstitutional I feel to prohibit the collapsing stock as found on the antique versions. The barrel is long for proper firing power, but the lack of stock length is great for moving the self defense weapon around in close quarters combat.
In the early airborne days, the Garand was broken down in to the three main groups and carried on the paratrooper in a bag. This was later abandoned and troopers jumped with the M1 assembled. Later still a canvas weapons container bag was developed where the rifle was carried assembled in the bag and the bag strapped to the chute harness on the jumper’s side. This is still used today to carry US rifles
Those wire stocks, although tbey look really cool, are hella mediocre for actual shooting like Ian said. It's better than that paratrooper Reising stock that was featured on FW a while back but that's not saying much. If you want an M1 Carbine that you plan on shooting regularly, just go for a standard stock version. Its leaps and bounds more comfortable.
I've heard stories about dudes jumping with the canvas holster landing on it and getting anywhere from a serious Charlie horse to a broken thigh. Dont know how truthful these stories are never really bothered to fact check it to be fair
Inland Manufacturing is back or at least the name is back and they are making M1 carbines that look like the originals and also with a Cage chassis. The ones in the chassis are modernized that are covered in Picatinny rail. I just looked at their line at the Great American Outdoors Show in Harrisburg PA.
I don't think it's pointless. Yes, things like the markings on the stock would be relatively easy to fake, but those mold marks on the butt plate would be quite difficult, ironically because of their crappiness. And you still have to start with a genuine Inland M1, or a convincing fake (which is another layer of problems for the faker). The better informed the collector, the higher the level of detail required by the faker, and therefore the more work (and higher outlay) for the faker.
Well known to people making fakes, does not mean well known to people buying "fakes" Hell I own one and paused the vid to go grab mine and follow along just to double check :D
Hi Ian. I have a paratrooper stock that matches your description of a real one in every detail. It is on aWinchester carbine with the upgraded rear sight not an Inland. Years ago, I bought it from a guy who says his father brought it back from Korea. The guy says his father swears that during the Korean War, (or in the interwar years), it was common for various maker carbines to be arsenal reworked and reissued with the original paratrooper stock. I think I bought it in the 1970s. Neither the guy I bought it from or his dad were gun people. The son remembers his dad having it in his footlocker since he was little. Do you know of any verifiable history of reissue of non-Inland carbines with authentic paratrooper stocks? Thanks!!
So, if this one is an Inland RIA rebuild, how is it more legitimate than, say, a Winchester receiver that was built to M1A1 spec. during rebuild?Just because the RIA armorer happened to rebuild the rifle with an Inland receiver, it's original? I could understand if we were talking about an original, un-refinished carbine, but I don't see how any of this could apply to rebuilds.
Seems like I remember reading about the Japanese on Attu tried a bonzai charge, to over run the front line soldiers and get into the rear echelon support, cooks artillery, supply etc. soldiers. It worked they got past the front line troops. But then they ran into the rear echelon armed with M1 carbines, who wipes them out.
I've shot with one of these before (I don't know if it was a real one; I didn't bother to check at the time) and I liked it a lot. It felt very quick and agile, with very low recoil.
I understand that for the M1 Carbine, the bayonet lug was added either late WW2 or after, and has been used as a way to identify (apart from the serial number) if the firearm was an earlier production and produced during the war vs. post-war production. What about the M1a1? Was the bayonet lug always a component of the firearm since its first production?
You just had to do a video on the one I put a bid on, didn't you? Lol! Might have to up the ante now that it's on the youtubes being fondled by, gun Jesus. Thanks alot. Jk
@ 1:28 you say the words " ... break the paratrooper..." This is a mistake. My dad was a paratrooper in Korea (187th) I can tell you, paratroopers don't break, they do the breaking. He trained with and carried both the M1 Garand and the M1A1 carbine, his preference was the M18 57mm Recoilless Rifle you should do a video on that
Alot of the Repro Paratrooper stocks that I came across have the Selector cut out and the slight swell in the stock or whats called the "pot belly". That's the one thing I look for first.
My dad was 101s Airborne in WWII, I have that folding rifle and the pouch that attached to the leg in the safe, I bought it for him for his birthday. He is still alive and will be 100 in March.
mac11380 tell him I said happy birthday and thank you for his service.
@@AngelusCV You got it, thank you so much!
Hope your dad is still alive
@@timmocnik3458 He will have passed one year on July 20th 2021, I thank you though.
@@mac11380 sad I was just going to say the same thing but I hope you still have that beautiful gun as I don't have the one my dad got from my great uncle. We're Canadian and I'm not exactly sure how he got it but from the story we got he traded for some alcohol as we got a bigger ration and easier ability to get alcohol wherever in Europe they were stationed. I think it sas actually an m1 a2 as it was fully automatic and was not ever brought out much and I think when our gun laws became more harsh my dad actually turned it in so we didn't lose our other rifles
How to identify between M1A1 Carbine and M1A1 Abrams?
I got them mixed up last week
Different calibre...
Allan Gibson really they look the same
"Tongue firmly in cheek"...(the M1 designation covered a Lot (because the US used it for everything (I am sure you could find an M1 can opener))).
Easy, M1A1 Carbines have wider tracks than the Abrams. But the Abrams has a more well-built stock.
the 6 dislikes were people finding out they got scammed
Or people who know the jig is up!
24 now
31, don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them honestly.
52 now after a year.
57
As someone who spent many years in the Army, I can assure you the powers that be would be more concerned about breaking the Garand, the Paratrooper, not so much.
If you were talking about a standard troop I would definitely agree with you but someone like a paratrooper who has had thousands if not millions of dollars invested into their training (for the modern day depending on exactly what type of special forces troop they are) I think the military would be more concerned with replacing the rifle because it would be cheaper and easier to buy a new rifle than to train a new troop to fill that guys role.
Standard infantryman though? Fuck him he better bring back all his issued shit or have a really good fucking reason why he only brought back 3 of his 4 issued magazines.
@@nunyabusiness4904 in the second world war, american paratroopers were standard light infantry, the only difference was that paratroopers were ALL volunteers, no draftees, and they only had light weapons
I have been kicking myself for years because I bought a M1A1 carbine at a local gun store for $700 years ago and ended up selling it. Knowing that it may have been a fake makes me feel a little better but the pain is still there. I wake up sometimes in a cold sweat and my girlfriend tells me I was screaming "Inland!" in me sleep. I'll have to buy another one eventually in order to shake the nightmares.
wait, wu' hut the hell? Lol
TwentythreePER inland was the best I ever had I converted it to m2 full auto and that was really fun... I loved it till we parted ways in the 90s...it can really sing a great song... thought I’d share this with you...
There is a National Postal Meter m1 carbine for $700 at my local pawn shop. Really tempting!
all though the inland is good start and a great house to house weapon,it lacks the true distance standard of the Garand.suggest the scout and socom 16 scout is same rifle with 18in barrel a good 500 yard weapon. the longer version is a a good 800 or even 1000 yard delivering 1000+ ft lbs to 1000 yard
out pacing in averages all other weapon configurations.308 winchester or NATO 7.62x 51 are best all around weapons platforms.{ laymens terms} will knock a 400lb deer off his feet at 1000 yards! A man off his feet at 1760 yards or 1 mile.
TwentythreePER - I understand brother!
'break the paratrooper'
JoshGG sent it back to the manufacturer
JoshGG try turning it on and off again.
I'm sure those can be fixed with a couple swearwords and a bit of tape, like a Miata.
Maintenance Report A-44519: Paratrooper, Model 1944, returned by Lt. Harrison with complaints of mobility issues and a constant screeching noise emanating from the trooper during drop before unit stopped functioning completely. Examination revealed several stress fractures in the lower leg assembly and main spine axle. Fractures determined to be the result of excessive torque placed on main body by overextending rifle catching on scenery during drop.
Action Taken: Damaged parts realigned and reinforcing bars secured into place with olive drab reinforcement tape and gypsum plaster. Unit shipped back to front.
Recommended Follow-up: Lt. Harrison is to allow 3-7 weeks for the repairs to set and to apply liberal amounts of standard drinking water daily. Installation of a shorter rifle is also highly recommended to avoid repeat issues.
Fien that made my night dude, you're a saint
Really liking these "how to identify" videos. Thanks Ian!
Larrypotterfieldvideos
Had a chance to jump these in the early 60s. You're right about the stocks being really skeezy, and anyone jumping one of these in that damn canvas leg holster was asking for a broken hip. Consensus in my unit was that you were a lot better off jumping with a M3 Grease Gun tied off to the lower flap of your Reserve
thank you for your sandwiches
@@garymitchell5899 the guy said early 60s meaning 1960s not 60 years ago
@@michaelmccloskeyooi Early 60 is now closer to being 60 than 50 years ago tho
@@garymitchell5899 Are you telling me Vietnam vets don't exist anymore? Why is his story so far fetched? The M1A1 was still in use in the early part of Vietnam as a lighter alternative to the M14.
@@michaelmccloskeyooi 1960+60=2020
My uncle was in the 117th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron during the war. They had some interaction with the 82nd Airborne in North Africa, and ended up with a bunch of M1A1 carbines. There’s photographic evidence of their troopers with the weapons in Morocco. I have two pics of him with the weapon. He said the wire stock was lousy. Wiggly.
"Hey i need to go to the store my paratrooper broke again"
hockeyskull happened to me as well once, on Crete.
Kept them grounded to prevent further damage.
That worked until I went to the Casino and partied with some Poles.
Return your paratrooper and buy yourself a proper Marine.... they’re more durable
Just a footnote, my late dad served in the 82nd Airborne in 1944 and jumped on D-Day. I asked him what he carried and he said an M-1 Garand which he described as a “perfectly suitable weapon”. He came to the division as one of the replacements for the losses in Sicily and told me that there were soldiers in his outfit who used bolt action rifles and some had carbines. He seemed to think that the men who carried bolt action rifles had peace time experience as hunters and he couldn’t see the point of carrying a carbine. My dad came to the USA as a 5 year old from Northern Ireland and grew up in Brooklyn NY and never mentioned any involvement with guns before the Army. He served in the NYPD for 27 years after the war and owned only his 38 caliber Smith&Wesson service revolver and his 38 snub nose off duty gun. He was not a gun buff and his experience of documenting shooting accidents in the NYPD. left him in doubt of the wisdom of having “guns around the house”. In ‘44 he was captured by the Germans soon after his jump and escaped from the POW camp in the Sudetenland the following spring. His half-starved condition prevented him from returning to combat and he spent the rest of his time until discharge in an Army hospital. He was quite clear about jumping with an M1 Garand and the other weapons that the guys in the outfit carried. I suppose that he could have been talking about the Paratrooper Carbine that you exhibited but his description suggests that by 1944 many paratroopers carried a variety of rifles.
The vast majority of US paratroopers carried the m1 garand in ww2 I believe it was only assistant gunners and radio men that had the carbine, but of course I’m sure some men chose to carry the carbine over the garand, even though there were only meant to carry what they were issued with, for instance dick winters of the 506th PIR 101st airborne would have been issued with a Thompson but he chose to carry the garand instead
I have an original one it's manufacture date was 11/44. It was passed on to me by my grandfather who was army, then army Air corps, the he was retired with the Air Force. He was a tail gunner and eventually managed one of the NCO clubs in England. He made me clean this weapon every time I got to visit with him. In my almost teenage years I used it to hunt whitetail on my Grandfathers land. I'm 52 years old now. The weapon is still almost perfect. Any scuffs that are on it happened before I had it full time. I love this rifle!
I just bought an Auto Ordanance paratrooper M1 Carbine. It's a fun shooter. It's not a true WWII M1 but it's a neat little reproduction gun.
How much
Love WW2 Martial arms and the M1 Carbine specifically. Have owned 10 over the years with only 8 in possession now to include an M2 and an authentic, AA-marked arsenal rebuilt M1A1. Thanks for the video.
I have a modern reproduction M1A1 and its a very fun gun to play with and enjoy. I also have 2 original standard M1 Carbines that round out the collection nicely. I enjoy your videos.
How to identify a human from a reptilian humanoid would be an amazing video.
Sadly thats considered to be a real thing in the US today, very sad...best to enjoy the guns, than to get involved in that nonsense, even in jest!
A reptilian always says that free speech is offensive.
Hawkeye 47 That's easy. Fry up a slice of them. If they taste like sweet beef, human. If they taste like chicken, reptiloid.
Duh, ya gotta have the special sunglasses man!
And we think Humans are deliciious...
Our family owns a real M1 Carbine because we are friends with a Korean War veteran and he did so well in combat that his commanding officer allowed him to keep his M1 Carbine. He gave his Carbine to our family as a gift.
He is quite generous, I don't think I would ever give up a special gun like that
That #4 on the casting would likely be the impression number as opposed to the hour. Parts like this would be made using a "matchplate", with many impressions on each, to make several parts per mold. Being that they are identical parts, the foundry would number each impression for troubleshooting purposes. If say casting #10 were consistently defective, corrective action could be taken
I enjoy your presentations. Memories of them take me back to 1963 when I was the Arms Room officer in my high school ROTC program. We had about 200 M1 Garands, 3 M1A1 Carbine's, 10 M1 Carbine's, 2 BAR's and 2 1911 Colt pistols. Of course, all were leftover from WWII with firing pins removed but the study of with dissembling and reassembling every week which was required for cleaning as well as drilling with them twice a week was enjoyable for a 16-17 year old boy.
I would do almost anything for a small arsenal like that
Ian, according to the article "Rock Island Rebuilds" by Bruce N. Canfield, found in the Spring 2001 GCA Journal, the presence of a "RIA/EB" stamp on the stock indicates that it was rebuilt at RIA between Jan. of 1946 and Apr. of 1958. It was during this period that Elmer Bjerke was the foreman of small arms inspection at Rock Island Arsenal.
I can't say I've used one, but that looks about as comfortable as it gets for a wire stock.
PneubTube wrapped in Paracord it would probably be better.
While some may argue that putting this information out aids in the production of fakes, I would say that it has far more value to those who are trying to understand what they are buying. It is preferable to have this arrangement than one where collectors have less information to verify the authenticity of items. I was quite shocked to see the negative reaction on this (and the recent Luger) video.
A few things:
-The M1 Garand was still the primary weapon for the majority of the paratroopers in an airborne light infantry company.
-The MTOE for an airborne light infantry company (for D-Day) was 8 officers and 119 soldiers split into a headquarters section of 2 officers and 14 enlisted and three platoons of 2 officers and 34 enlisted. The platoons were further divided into 2 rifle squads and a mortar squad each.
- only 21 total MTOE positions were assigned M1A1 carbines, usually for all of the officers and all of the weapons teams as backup weapons. The MTOE also allowed for 6 M1 or M1A1 Thompsons to be swapped in for one of the weapons. This allowed for the odd/interesting combinations that did not align with the MTOE and why some officers and NCOs carried M1 Garands or M1 Thompsons.
I have had two .30 carbines and sadly the original one I had I sold for $100 a few years ago. It was shot out and the rounds wobbled going down the barrel. The other one I still have was a fake one made after WW II down in Florida. It shoots great and parts are interchangeable
with the real one. Out to 200 yards it is accurate and extremely effective. In all the
times I have used it to take game it has been a very efficient weapon and I have 5 round,
10 round, 15 round, 20 round and 30 round mags for it. Lots of fun to shoot and a good
weapon to start a non shooter off on in my opinion.
The "star" and number on the but plate most likely indicate a cavity number; seeing the size, the mould most likely had multiple cavities, so multiple products could be moulded in a single pouring. If multiple products have problems, one could identify the cavity with the problems and address them in only that cavity
Yep. Either that, or month of manufacture. Hour of casting would be too much hassle to keep swapping around, but updating once a month for batch control would be easy enough. If you look on things like PMags, you'll see a circle with an arrow, pointing at a number from 1 to 12 indicating the month of manufacture.
But since these were all done in two batches, I'd wager it's much more likely that this is a cavity number on the buttstocks. I doubt these runs took 12 months to produce and if we know it runs that range, there must be examples of them all, which points to 12 cavities used for probably only a couple months for each batch.
Thanks for this info. A little covered aspect of collecting are the protocols, routines and procedures that the individual parts were made before assembly. I believe there is a niche among serious collectors for this information. (Granted, some viewers of this channel are little more than 'bubbas', that call Ian 'gun jesus', and can't wait to hacksaw sporterize, great grandpa's mint '03 Springfield, to shoot Tennerite, but fortunately there are many more serious collectors/enthusiasts here also.)
Came here to make this same comment, most likely a die number used for quality control. No way they changed that on a timed base.
Even though there is no chance of me buying one of these, I love watching these “how to Spot a fake...” videos
I have had one of these for years and always thought it was going to be worth a lot of money one day,now it turns out that it is an original Inland receiver but with repro wood and repro stock.Thanks Ian
Due to Dutch law in the past, all M1A1 folding stocks were welded so they couldn't fold any more. Making a valuable collectors piece worthless instead...
Please do this with AK rifles. I can differentiate between different AK rifles but many cannot. And many won't even believe me when i tell them "dude, your rifle is not AK 47 bro, its a Chinese type 56"
Edit: don't understand why people are getting angry but this is my opinion. I have no problem whatever you call your AK. But I get upset when they deny the truth
Almost every soviet satellite state had there own variant of AK-rifle.
i feel ya, or they just being jerks and doesn't gave a damn
'so? it's another AK after all' and i'm like k whatever, lol
That's easy, front sight hood.
nathan buck hmm true. If he just tells how to find out if its real, then there wont be any need to make for every rifle. Or he could do the main variants
spankmeister you know the wae!
THE RIFLE BROKE BEFORE THE TROOPER DID
A cowboy and a soldier walk into a bar.
Cowboy: “Let’s step outside.”
Soldier: “oh you’re finished!, you’re finished 3 times over.”
I own a WWII Inland that I dropped into a walnut paratrooper stock just for myself - I also shoot it.... Fits nicely into a tennis racket case
Most airborne troopers continued to carry Garands. I have a picture of my late uncle who was in the 101st Airborne Div. The pic was taken in Zell Am See and he is equipped with a Garand. Most of them did not like the M1 Carbine because of its lack of stopping or penetrating power compared to the 30.06 Garand. One notable Airborne soldier who “ditched” his carbine in favor of a Garand was MG James Gavin. He talks about this in his book On to Berlin.
$1,600 - $2,500 estimated price...That's actually affordable for such a cool piece of history. It's definitely on my list.
I had an M2 version of the Real carbine rifle 650 rpm . Reloading all that brass took time, but getting the brass empty was fun
Please do this with K98ks!
He was just a rookie trooper and he surely shook with fright
He checked off his equipment and made sure his pack was tight. He had to sit and listen to those awful engines roar - You ain't gonna jump no more!
Proud to say my great-uncle was part of the 101st Airborne, IIRC 502nd, D company. I can't help but smile whenever I hear that song, morbid as it is.
So, Dog Company? Pretty cool!
Is everybody happy? Cried the Sergeant looking up
"Jumping with a standard M1 Garand rifle wasn't the greatest idea." Don't believe Dick Winters would have agreed.
Agree. More paratroopers jumped Garands than the M1A1. The Garand was the standard rifle issue for airborne troops, not the carbine!
That RIA stamp got a giggle out of me. Not gonna lie.
Pretty cool! I was told by a gun shop owner (who was very smug in his knowledge, by the way) that the M1A1 was also issued to tankers, according to some book he read, and the older gentleman selling his on consignment who 'carried it on his Sherman at Anzio', according to the gun shop owner.
This is a really helpful video since the M1 Carbine has skyrocketed in price in the last couple of years.
Had one of these things way back when and always assumed it was a fake as the wire stock was missing...now,I'm not too sure
Excellent Series Ian I Can’t Wait Till The Next One You Make . I’m Learning a Lot Of Valuable Information From These Please Do More Of Them Thank You Gun Jesus 😀😃😎👍🏼
there's instances where men had to do jumps with M1919s tied to them.
I happen to own a m1919, just the thought alone sends shivers down my spine.
While some people are worried whether their M1 carbine is real or fake, I'm worried about my non-existent M1 carbine.
There's something particularly cool about Paratroopers.
The look of horror in Ian’s eyes when he said break the paratrooper.
On d day most of the leg bags were ripped off when they jumped out and they lost there weapon. Dick winters from 101st easy company explained what happened. The pilots were flying way too fast due to all the flak and it being dark out.
I have always been interested about, what weapon would Ian choose if he would've been an American soldier back in WW2? Out of the American used small arms of course.
Out of American small arms, an M1 Garand.
Forgotten Weapons Thats a strange way to spell Thompson?
The Thompson would be almost my last choice for a submachine gun.
Forgotten Weapons is there a video where you explain this opinion on the Thompson?
Laird Cummings "Heavy."
“Break the paratrooper” needs to be on a t-shirt, as off right now!!!!
Ian, the early war method of parachuting with an M1 RIFLE was to break it down and carry it in a padded bag ("Griswold Bag"). One can imagine jumping into the unknown with a disassembled rifle! As units gained experience they found out how to jump with an assenbled M1.
Correct!
My father (339TH INF. Italy) didn't care for the, "flimsy", folding stock. He said the standard carbine was great for herding prisoners, but he loved his Garand.
I jumped with a M240B quite a bit. Never had any issues. Over 30 jumps and my only issue was jumping from a Blackhawk in the winter, dropping straight down into the ice, in Alaska. I slipped, hit my head and had a concussion for a few days. Most incidents are the soldiers faults in my opinion. Every guy I knew that had a bad incident was the “nervous” jumper in the unit at the time.
I believe their was 13 companies in total that built m-1 carbines
I have a Rock Ola
Paid $125.00 for it when I was 16 years old in 1985.
Keep up the good work with the info your giving
9:25 "anyone of the other 5 manufacturers". I think you mean 10 or 11 other manufacturers.
I am enjoying this series, with more and more people getting into this hobby this is great info.
The M1A1 looks like it would be really comfortable to fire left-handed
Ones a little heavier I think. You don’t want to jump out of a plane with an M1A1 Abrams strapped to your hip.
My dad has one of these and I have the standard. We almost never take his out since shooting with a full stock is far better IMO. I would also like to note, beech wood could have original metal, They were surplussed to the greeks after the war and they often used beech instead.
True. Mine is direct from CMP that way. It is a transitional. Correct SN range for Inland production.
anyone know what that C stamp on the right side of the rifle indicates?
Its not a USGI mark. He forgot to mention that (eye roll)
I've always suspected that I had a fake folding stock, especially since the circle P is missing, theres no nomenclature on the buttstock and the stock isn't Walnut. It is stamped "OI" and the grip is stamped "RI" and underneath that is "8".
I have an standard Inland carbine and it come directly from the Toole Army Depot (in 1961 through the DCM). It was totally arsenal reconditioned with bayonet lug, adjustable rear site and a Marlin barrel and was in like new condition, reparkerized too I believe. Paid $17.50 + 2.50 for shipping and handling!
I bought the folding stock years ago and it was only $60.00.
I've never fired the carbine with the folding stock...
I'd like to state for the record that many paratroopers in WW2 did indeed drop with M1 Garands, it's a common misconception that these guns outright replaced the Garand in paratrooper service.
In reality it was a supplement for the Garand, as was the full stock M1 in the regular infantry, most riflemen preferred to use the M1 for the extra range and punch.
I assume you mean most preferred the M1 Garand and not the M1 Carbine because the M1 Carbine had terrible range compared to the Garand. This became a serious issue during a key battle during the race to the Rhine river after D-day.
That is correct. Most 101st and 82nd Airborne soldiers in WWII were equipped with standard Garands and not the M1A1 carbine.
@@geodes6722 it should be noted a lot of them quickly traded in their M1A1s for M1s once their initial landing operations had been finished, again, for the extra punch and range.
@@trainknut General Gavin himself originally had an M1 carbine and gave it up for a Garand. In his book “On to Berlin”, he had nothing good to say about the carbine!
The one I liked, the stock just injected into the rifle, it did not fold. I like the rifles lack of stock for self defense purposes and it is unconstitutional I feel to prohibit the collapsing stock as found on the antique versions. The barrel is long for proper firing power, but the lack of stock length is great for moving the self defense weapon around in close quarters combat.
Just curious but was there ever experimenting with the M1 Garand to make it more suitable for Paratroopers?
Some experiments, but nothing successful.
In the early airborne days, the Garand was broken down in to the three main groups and carried on the paratrooper in a bag. This was later abandoned and troopers jumped with the M1 assembled. Later still a canvas weapons container bag was developed where the rifle was carried assembled in the bag and the bag strapped to the chute harness on the jumper’s side. This is still used today to carry US rifles
Those wire stocks, although tbey look really cool, are hella mediocre for actual shooting like Ian said. It's better than that paratrooper Reising stock that was featured on FW a while back but that's not saying much.
If you want an M1 Carbine that you plan on shooting regularly, just go for a standard stock version. Its leaps and bounds more comfortable.
Ian is just the classiest dude out there.
Did any GIs remove the stock outright?
I really enjoy these real vs fake vids! Keep it up!
In pristine condition mainly because most carbines were issued to NCO’s that didn’t see much trigger time.
I've heard stories about dudes jumping with the canvas holster landing on it and getting anywhere from a serious Charlie horse to a broken thigh. Dont know how truthful these stories are never really bothered to fact check it to be fair
I had one once and the top of the hand guard was stamped metal with a series of holes. It looked really cool.
Inland Manufacturing is back or at least the name is back and they are making M1 carbines that look like the originals and also with a Cage chassis. The ones in the chassis are modernized that are covered in Picatinny rail. I just looked at their line at the Great American Outdoors Show in Harrisburg PA.
ruclips.net/video/VIZD3CxO0aA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/U3fFOu5XhlI/видео.html
I have only seen one real M1A1 carbine. It came off a Submarine that was being decommissioned. I believe Larry Ruth acquired it moments later.
"What to do to your fakes so they appear genuine"
All of this is already well known among anyone who would be making fakes.
It was a joke. Besides, if this is already "well known" to people that make fakes, then isn't this video pointless?
I don't think it's pointless. Yes, things like the markings on the stock would be relatively easy to fake, but those mold marks on the butt plate would be quite difficult, ironically because of their crappiness. And you still have to start with a genuine Inland M1, or a convincing fake (which is another layer of problems for the faker). The better informed the collector, the higher the level of detail required by the faker, and therefore the more work (and higher outlay) for the faker.
Well known to people making fakes, does not mean well known to people buying "fakes" Hell I own one and paused the vid to go grab mine and follow along just to double check :D
Luben Lambov I don't make fakes, nor do I want to buy one, the history interests me, so definitely not pointless.
Hi Ian. I have a paratrooper stock that matches your description of a real one in every detail. It is on aWinchester carbine with the upgraded rear sight not an Inland. Years ago, I bought it from a guy who says his father brought it back from Korea. The guy says his father swears that during the Korean War, (or in the interwar years), it was common for various maker carbines to be arsenal reworked and reissued with the original paratrooper stock. I think I bought it in the 1970s. Neither the guy I bought it from or his dad were gun people. The son remembers his dad having it in his footlocker since he was little. Do you know of any verifiable history of reissue of non-Inland carbines with authentic paratrooper stocks? Thanks!!
Could it be made into an M2A1 carbine
Genuine question. What about the underwood m1a1 paratroopers
Also bayonet lug was part of the refurbishment
Fold that stock, rest the front on my forearm and shoot it one handed, and make sure it hits me in the nose when I fire it.
Like a pro.
Thanks my grandfather who served with the 101st airborne.somebody broke into his stole his rifle with ammo and stuff
Makes you wonder who used that gun back in the war. How much has that gun seen? How much has it done?
So, if this one is an Inland RIA rebuild, how is it more legitimate than, say, a Winchester receiver that was built to M1A1 spec. during rebuild?Just because the RIA armorer happened to rebuild the rifle with an Inland receiver, it's original? I could understand if we were talking about an original, un-refinished carbine, but I don't see how any of this could apply to rebuilds.
Seems like I remember reading about the Japanese on Attu tried a bonzai charge, to over run the front line soldiers and get into the rear echelon support, cooks artillery, supply etc. soldiers. It worked they got past the front line troops. But then they ran into the rear echelon armed with M1 carbines, who wipes them out.
as a left handed person, that wire stock looks miserable to use when its hot out as theres no "cheek rest" on the right side of the stock
I am also left handed and to remedy what you mentioned I put the magazine pouch on and it makes it a lot better
Don't care if it's real or fake...I want one!
I've shot with one of these before (I don't know if it was a real one; I didn't bother to check at the time) and I liked it a lot. It felt very quick and agile, with very low recoil.
rock island's circle is complete
I understand that for the M1 Carbine, the bayonet lug was added either late WW2 or after, and has been used as a way to identify (apart from the serial number) if the firearm was an earlier production and produced during the war vs. post-war production. What about the M1a1? Was the bayonet lug always a component of the firearm since its first production?
Hi Ian, I'd love to see another Final Prices video. Will we see another one soon?
You just had to do a video on the one I put a bid on, didn't you? Lol! Might have to up the ante now that it's on the youtubes being fondled by, gun Jesus. Thanks alot. Jk
That 1-12 number on the buttplate is probably a cavity number on the mold, not the hour it was cast.
@ 1:28 you say the words " ... break the paratrooper..." This is a mistake. My dad was a paratrooper in Korea (187th) I can tell you, paratroopers don't break, they do the breaking.
He trained with and carried both the M1 Garand and the M1A1 carbine, his preference was the M18 57mm Recoilless Rifle
you should do a video on that
Alot of the Repro Paratrooper stocks that I came across have the Selector cut out and the slight swell in the stock or whats called the "pot belly".
That's the one thing I look for first.
Another use case I can think of for this is being given to tank crewmen
My hands are to God damn big for that pistol grip. The sling loop needs to be cut off with a damn Dremel so I can wrap my hand around the grip
very helpful. our gun shop is getting more WWII guns coming in.
Watch this for all the tips to fake an M1A1 properly.
Serial numbers can be flawed. If there's a list of known numbers readily available then a reproduction company could copy the serial numbers.
Did no paratrooper ever remove the rear stock, or was the recoil too harsh?
Are you going to review the HMG Stg on this channel or on inRange?
On InRange, once we get one.