To be perfectly honest, I very much prefer this format over the almost hour long Q&A videos. I think this is both more entertaining AND more educational than the long videos.
Tyler here! 🙋 I wasn't expecting this so quickly. I always assumed that manufacturers shyed away from double feed magazines because the single feed frees up real estate for link bars and whatnot related to the trigger
That's what I thought too. Maybe we can look and see where various designs do that? I also assumed it let the top of the grip cinch in a little bit, as that is comfortable for grips.
One of few channels where like “oh I have little interest in this topic” but click anyways just to hear Ian’s insight as never know what he’ll bring up to reference historically etc Make great content my man
Sometimes content is irrelevant, and Ian is great anyways, I have little interest too, but I´m a sucker for engineering, and guns-engineering is engineering in smallest space, which is always a challenge. But Ian is surely the main factor, he´s a great person and a hell of a presenter...
@@Shepard_AU The P90 also holds the ammo perpendicular to the bore and they do a twist to the feed lips. To double-feed would have likely added way more complexity to the design and likely other feed issues.
Love the format. It's really better and especially more searchable if you have stuff to say. Q&A videos probably still have a reason to exist for short miscellaneous questions.
I think it depends on the questions, i.e. some can still be answered "in bulk" in a Q&A video, but otherse deserve a video on their own which is more in-depth.
The KelTec PMR-30 is also a double feed magazine design, because of the small diameter of the cartridge. They've had to release at least 2 iterations of the feed ramp to improve reliability. There is a 3rd gen feed ramp that improves on it even more, but it's not essential.
That’s why the PS90 is such an amazing magazine design, bullet changes direction 90degrees, but it’s always single stack. Wish there was a 223/556 version.
I want a select-fire P90 so bad and would settle for a PS90 but every time I think about buying one I look at the price of 5.7x28mm and realize loading a magazine would cost as much as the magazine....
If I remember correctly, the US military did show an interest in pursuing such a system. The issues were that the 5.56 was too hot (I don't believe that), and that the weapon system couldn't handle the M855. I don't know what the big catch was, maybe they couldn't create enough space for a 5.56 chamber versus the 5.7, yes the diameter is smaller, but the cartridge is longer, maybe the internal space of the P90 chassis limited the space available to enhance the chamber for the length. I do not know off the top of my head the chamber pressure differences between 223/5.56 and m855, but I know that all 5.56NATO chambers are rated for 223 but not all 223 are for 5.56, so I know from that, there is a difference in chamber pressures. 🤷♂️
I really like these nuanced videos about stuff like this, it really brings to light all the little details that veterans of the gun world might overlook and important information new people coming into the hobby might not know.
I've always referred to the "double feed" magazines as staggered feed when covering this issue on different types of firearms to our new recruits. I dislike using the same phrase/term for two different things. We refer to a "double feed" as a malfunction and "staggered feed" as to type of magazine. Less chance of a challenge to a test question. Great content, as usual.
I was wondering about that. I don't have a lot of firearms experience but I immediately thought: "Wait, wasn't double feed a type of malfunction? What's going on here?"
@@TazyBaby the problem with that is lots of pistol mags are double stack single feed. Like the Glock 17 or Beretta 92 magazine. Double stack double feed is a bit different.
I have several double stack single feed pistols and I solved my feeding problems by spraying the ammo with a dry silicone lubricant prior to loading. It doesn't evaporate and the rounds stay lubed until you need them. Ten years with zero problems.
Doesn't lubing the rounds,even with a dry lubricant, run the risk of increasing bolt thrust on the pistol? NATO EVPAT testing does this deliberately to reduce the case friction and increase the bolt thrust.
@@eaton33a It would increase slide velocity on closing. Would make it similar to dropping the slide with no mag in the pistol. For the most part it shouldn't be an issue but will cause more wear and could cause seer problems on something like a high end 1911 and it's really not needed. If you have the proper recoil spring the gun is designed to function without any additional lubrication and in my opinion is more likely to cause an issue, things like the film getting in chamber and causing extraction issues
@@ryanpeck3377 It was a rhetorical question really. Bolt Thrust is the rearward force exerted on the breech when a firearm is discharged. It is a function of chamber pressure and the internal area of the case head. The friction effect when the case expands under pressure against the chamber wall has a reductive effect on this. Lubricating the case could/will reduce this effect and increase bolt thrust. This in turn would increase the load on the firearms locking surfaces, amongst other things. As you say, this could cause 'issues'. Might not have too critical an effect in a pistol calibre though, given the pressures and case length.
Sounds like a good idea for one man, but militaries/police forces etc. probably wouldn't want the added hassle of an extra step. I could be wrong, though.
Wow! Thanks Ian for always exerting effort to answer questions. It takes a lot of patience to even read it and even to make time to answer the questions thoroughly. That’s why you wont go short on patreon supporters 🙌
For pistols another advantage is that having a single feed leaves more room for the linkage between trigger and sear that in most cases goes around the top of the magazine.
Not anymore. Yes, you’re right, but it’s old version. Recently Kalashnikov Concern upgraded MP-443/446 for better reliability - including single-feed mags as well
Grach has very stiff springs in double feed mags, and normal springs in single feed mags. Single feed feeding lips act as guides to make the cartridge go where it needs to. Double feed lips cant ensure that, too little time for cartridge to go up and settle the bouncing. Gsh-18 also have very stiff mag springs, same reason.
@@Rigel_6I can't think of a glock that turned out crappy? Sure I'm not a big fan of them, but they are all insanely reliable. Plus glock releases a new model once a decade or so, if you even count their new guns as new (it's just existing parts in a different combination)
This channel is a black hole. I only wanted to know a thing or two about Luger (mostly where was the slide) and now I can't stop watching. Hopefully I'll get my first gun around this time next year.
I actually really like these longer explanations. It helps me to understand the engineering, the little quarks within the different setups, better. Thank you for this one!
I converted a HK4 .22LR mag into a 13 round mag. It was originally a 7 round mag. Originally, the mag had a post in the baseplate. I cut off the post and, Viola, 13 round .22LR mag. No .22LR feed problems in all the years I've owned it. Surprisingly, the .22LR kit consistently puts rounds within a 6 inch circle at 7 meters (very accurate). The .380 kit always put rounds low & to the left at 7 meters (good info for emergency situations). I bought the HK4 in 1976. It was manufactured by Heckler & Koch but had a Harrington & Richardson nameplate. The 4 caliber set for the HK4 could not be purchased from H&R.
This reminds me of the Norinco CF98 pistol. When these came in Canada the first time they had double feed magazines. They have since changed to a single feed magazine.
I am convinced that if we are to progress much further when it comes to cartridge fed weapons we must look more to untraditional magazine and feeding systems. Now a days it seems like the magazine is an afterthought or chosen as a "safe" component. Its funny when you see innovative new firearms that use 100+ year old magazine designs...
I would agree with you, but there really isn't a lot that can be done to improve the basic principles of mag design, which is why all these new firearms are using that 100+ mag design. If it works, you get the desired result (a feeding, functioning firearm), why mess with success?
Altering mag design to something weird and unconventional would generally be done in accompaniment to the use of a strange feed system. See P90 with its rotating feed lips and the G11 with its vertically rotating breech.
@@tankeroftheeast105 And on top of that, magazines apparently tend to be one of the most difficult parts to design reliably, and the market likes it when they can use magazines/magazine carriers they already own.
I feel like I learn at least a little every time I watch one of these videos. As a fan of longer videos, I feel this format actually works a lot better for making a good overview of a specific concept or mechanism. Great stuff as always, Mr. Ian.
I love this video, I love the content, and the expertise. Not just in firearms but in making youtube videos. You have your ass covered at every corner, there is no point where you say something without directly addressing the obvious issues people may have. I love it, its so fun to watch. Keep doing what you do, you obviously know your shit and have a passion for it and I love it, I'm sorry the internet is the way it is.
I never watched the old Q&As because they were so long and may have included stuff I was not interested in and I had to commit to find out what the video was about. Love this new format!
I used to have a 25round 22 magazine that had that constant pressure wound-up spring and it was so easy to use and spoiled me. I want that with double feed in a pistol. This was an interesting and great video Ian. Thank you.
Never even thought about this before, thank you! I'm a relatively new gun owner (got my first in 2020 after never having fired a gun in my 38 years here).
Before my country decided to ban handguns, I loved single stack magazines because often they would not need to be pinned in order to stay within the guidelines of magazine capacities. I love guns, but the idea of having something like a FiveseveN with a giant grip, and only 10 rounds just felt so wrong. An unmodified 1911 magazine is perfectly legal on the other hand; I can feel like I’m not just making due with what my laws restrict me to.
One thing Ian didn't mention that I think has some effect here is the length and shape of round. A rifle round is usually longer and more narrow, particularly at the tip where it can be more easily and reliably fed into the chamber, where a pistol round is typically short and blunt. Just think about the physics of the two, and it's obvious the pistol round will jam up more when attempting to 'angle' them into the chamber.
I really like these simple explanatory videos. As a person from another country where we don't have the same gun-culture as you Americans these are really helpful in order to understand the mechanics of a firearm.
You consistently explain nesessarily convoluted engineering in easy to follow terms and so enable adequate understanding necessary for making wiser gun decisions. A rare talent - kudos sir.
Thanks to Tyler for asking a question I had no clue how to answer and to Ian who explained all aspects of the answer. Excellent question and excellent Video!
Great format for these questions. I enjoy the long Q&A videos but don’t always have an hour of time to dedicate to watching one. A 5-10 minute video is a great idea.
Not only is this video idea great for answering questions more in depth, but a great way to interact with the community more. I could see this style blowing up!
You're right! My A-Bolt 2 Browning is double feed. But my X-Bolt is single feed! My 22 lr of course is single feed. It makes a lot of sens. Thank you! 🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻
I really liked this format. I was never a big fan of the QnA videos because of the length, plus I rarely actually found the question in the title. More please!!!
Rifles, particularly assault rifles, also use double stack/feed systems because they typically have much larger 30 round magazines. So there is an obvious advantage to either making the magazines physically shorter or getting more into them for the same length, as magazines can only be so long before they start to inhibit soldiers' ability to fight while prone or in confined spaces.
What I love about Ian is the accessibility of his information. He speaks simply enough for a newb to understand, yet delves deep enough for a veteran to gain new insight. The Gun Jesus speaketh...
Nice and entertaining format for people who don't have the time to stick to the long QA's. By the amount of views I guess that this went pretty well, hope to see more in the future
Ah man i really loved your q&a. I have watched all of them over the years and the in range ones. I hope you reconsider it,it truly was a highlight for me as it was like having a "conversation" with you to pock your thoughts on niche/interesting topics.
I never knew that there were any double feed pistol magazines even though I have one. I didn't remember that my FiveseveN is double feed until a commenter mentioned that very gun. Seems like an unnecessary complication to the firearm design. But it is exactly why I disdain Glock magazines in PCC's.
As much as I ridicule the Five-Seven, I wouldn't say the double feed magazine is unnecessary. You have to remember that by default, it feeds from a 20 round magazine, which is pretty considerable for a handgun. Like Ian said in the video, if a gun with a high-capacity magazine fed from a single narrow channel, it could introduce feeding issues due to the extra pressure exerted on the uppermost cartridges.
Is it hard to load the mags compared to single feed ones? Russian double feed mags have very stiff springs to make them reliable. Single feed mag lips are guiding the cartridge to the chamber, so it doesnt matter as much if the cartridge is bouncing a little. Doulbe feed lips are not so great in that regard.
This video was great Ian, I think the format works well I've been wanting more videos like your difference between smg, pdw and machine pistol video and this scratches that itch
Thank you an absolutely excellent explanation video. I was obvious to me that double was more difficult. But I never thought about the lower receiver having to be more robust/bulky. I think your new Q&A is a great idea.
Pistols have higher recoil velocity and shorter, straight walled cartridges. The majority of pistols are designed as controlled feed,meaning the rim of the cartridge engages the extractor before completely stripped from the magazine. The final push from the magazine aligns the cartridge fully in the breech face. Double feed magazines are used in push feed as bottleneck cartridges align easier. Oddly enough, Mauser used control feed from a double feed magazine. This was done with a large, open bolt face and a long, straight extractor face which allowed feed from either side. Control feed was felt to be necessary during the rattle of battle and fast bolt actuation.
I think another consideration is that with pistols you are generally working with a short, wide, cartridge, which if you can imagine when trying to feed from either side of a mag you would have to have a really wide loading ramp/cone to make it work. Generally rifle rounds are longer and start narrow, this means your loading ramp/cone doesn't have to be super wide (reletive to the geometry of the gun). When you look at pistols that fire rounds that are like small rifle rounds, fn five seven perhaps, you can use double stack magazines.
CZ shadow p2 shot 1500+ rounds on stage shooting and precision shooting this year, not a single issue with double feed.. the only issues i had is with aftermarket weak trigger springs for faster and more precise shooting, and with diy bullet fillings since i use less gunpowder for less recoil of the firearm.
Just realized my MP-57 (Ruger 57 conversion).. has a double feed mag setup. Going to check the rest of my pistols too. I never thought to check this. I've had a few like a Beretta M9A1 that had mags that was a pain to load. One good thing about double feed mags in my ARs etc I've noticed is they're hard to unload typically. But if you take a round and press on the 2nd from the top bullet as you unload the top one it releases the pressure on it and makes it just fall out. With practice you can unload mags very fast this way
For the Swiss STGW 57 you have both - depending on the Magazine you are using - the normal 24 Shot Aluminium Magazine ist doublefeed - and the 30Shot Magazine - actually the LMG 25 Steele magazine - is singlefeed - Both works fine - but i had the impression that the precission while shooting the singlefeed 30 shot is slightly better - But the 30 Shot Magazine is Gigantic in size, as the bullets are stacked in a much steeper angle
George Kelgren made magazines for both his 22 WMR pistols (grendel p-30 and Pmr 30) double feed, and also created a divider for the two stacks at the rear of the magazine, thereby making 2 single stack magizines incorporated into one. Thats how he gets 30 rounds of potentially rim-locked ammo into such a small package.
I think it's most interesting to see the disparity between single and double feed with pistol caliber carbines. The en vogue thing is typically using standard pistol mags (eg PC Charger with Glock mags, Cx4 Storm with 92/Px4 mags) but PCCs with a proprietary mag design seem to tend towards double feed (Stribog, MP5, B&T if I'm not mistaken). Although not ideal for adverse reliability, it's also worth noting the extended (20-33rd) mags for Glock and Beretta have certainly proven their worth by functioning reliably in platforms like the G18, Vector, M93 Raffica and Mx4 Storm, which all fire incredibly fast in full auto.
thank you for another great video ian - one of the only firearm channels I actually watch. as a designer/creative, I find your work incredibly inspirational.
I like both the formats! I prefer it long but it'd bee cool for it to be long but with the extra detail and explanations in! Like a bigger super video! Love Ian and his stuff!
I much prefer this to the long Q&As, as I may not have interest in the entire video, but with this style of Q&A I am less likely to miss out on a topic I'm interested in.
I'll throw my 2 cents to say single topic vids are like this are way easier for the algorithm to reach their intended audience and putting in the Qs like this makes people to find this sorta thing a lot easier.
Hey Ian!!! There is one aspect that I especially appreciate about your videos that is very nearly as important to me as your endless knowledge on firearms. Well, two things. Lol. 1: you are a humble creator. If mistakes are made you readily admit if it was your fault and you are very respectful to all of your guests even if a few of them seemed like people who would have been difficult to spend the day with. And 2: (very cool in my opinion). I have never once heard you complain about any political issue…ever. I have watched hundreds of your videos and you deftly explain the entire history of the guns themselves without bringing politics into it. Even though it could be said that many different things about guns have changed over the years based on politics and laws, I, to this day, would be hard pressed to guess who you would vote for. I find this inspirational, very respectful and very respectable!! I will never ask and I hope I never find out about what your political leanings are. Your videos are all about the guns and never the politics surrounding them which I am sure is not easy, especially these days. Every time I think I know everything I could want to know about guns I watch another episode and learn something new and cool. Thank you sir!!! You are a gentleman and a scholar, and I hope some day to shake your hand and thank you in person.
In-line feeding in a small space but also trigger bars? The double-stack Beretta M92 uses an external trigger bar although the design started out as the single-stack M1951 with an internal linkage.
What I think is needed is a not quite single feed pistol magazine, by which I mean the feed lips are far enough apart you can simply push down the cartridge between the feed lips but the rounds still have to angle towards the centre from either side. It would be so much easier to load a magazine that and it would more or less eliminate the wider slide issue.
Fun topic, and really well covered and explained. had this talk w my dad the other day... comparing 9mm sub guns and 9mm pistol feeding mechanisms and why "it takes glock mags" isnt always good.
Another example of a double feed handgun is the CF-98. The mags are very nice to load, except for the non-factory 10 rounder magazines which are 15 round pined to 10. Those are almost imposable to load to 10 rounds because whoever pined them to 10 rounds decided that they needed to fit 10 rounds and not one mm more.
Single feed pistol mags are also easier to perform reloads with, as you're putting a slightly smaller box into a slightly bigger box initially. This might make the difference between fumbling or not fumbling a reload, especially under stress.
We've seen single stack, single feed. We've seen double stack, single feed. We've even seen double stack, double feed. But I want to see single stack, double feed...
This was actually something I wondered about, why all hand guns seem to have hard to load single feed mags. Thank you for making it so easy to understand!
1) Also feed lips of the single feed mags act as guides, and it doesnt matter as much if the round is bouncing a little as it comes up and hits the lips. 2) Russian double feed handguns have very stiff mag springs. As i understand it was nescessary because the bolt is very fast and bolt travel is very short. Cartridges have to go up and settle the bouncing very quickly. For example MP-443 Grach (Yarygin Pistol) had very stiff springs in double feed mags, but they redesigned it to feed both from double and single feed mags, and single feed ones have normal springs.
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To be perfectly honest, I very much prefer this format over the almost hour long Q&A videos. I think this is both more entertaining AND more educational than the long videos.
Seconded!!!
Only for very specific questions.
Plus they work better for SEO.
i'd like to see a double feed magazine built in lego!
Good content in an easy to digest length (my attention span is fine - it's just easier to remember a short discussion on a point like this).
Tyler here! 🙋 I wasn't expecting this so quickly. I always assumed that manufacturers shyed away from double feed magazines because the single feed frees up real estate for link bars and whatnot related to the trigger
Link bar is often a bit lower, so even if it were double stack, you wouldn't have more or less space for that.
"wasn't expecting this so quickly" that's what she said!
@@Yoel_Mizrachi When she's with you.......
That's what I thought too. Maybe we can look and see where various designs do that?
I also assumed it let the top of the grip cinch in a little bit, as that is comfortable for grips.
I always figured it was about the size and comfort of the grip.
One of few channels where like “oh I have little interest in this topic” but click anyways just to hear Ian’s insight as never know what he’ll bring up to reference historically etc
Make great content my man
Sometimes content is irrelevant, and Ian is great anyways, I have little interest too, but I´m a sucker for engineering, and guns-engineering is engineering in smallest space, which is always a challenge. But Ian is surely the main factor, he´s a great person and a hell of a presenter...
The FN Five-seveN is the pistol I most think of as a double feed magazine due to the fact that the cartridge is so small caliber.
I don't think that's the reason why it's a double stack double feed mag, but yeah it's the one that comes to mind for me too.
The VP70 is what usually comes to my mind.
For some reason I always think of that newer Russian pistol the mp443 or something grach I forget the name
But a P90 that uses the same ammo is single feed and 50 round capacity.
@@Shepard_AU The P90 also holds the ammo perpendicular to the bore and they do a twist to the feed lips. To double-feed would have likely added way more complexity to the design and likely other feed issues.
Love the format. It's really better and especially more searchable if you have stuff to say.
Q&A videos probably still have a reason to exist for short miscellaneous questions.
Yes! These longer individual focus-talks on a single weapon detail are really great.
I think it depends on the questions, i.e. some can still be answered "in bulk" in a Q&A video, but otherse deserve a video on their own which is more in-depth.
The KelTec PMR-30 is also a double feed magazine design, because of the small diameter of the cartridge. They've had to release at least 2 iterations of the feed ramp to improve reliability. There is a 3rd gen feed ramp that improves on it even more, but it's not essential.
That's interesting. I wonder if that's why the Steyr GB took so long to begin production while the Rogak ruined its reputation in America.
That’s why the PS90 is such an amazing magazine design, bullet changes direction 90degrees, but it’s always single stack. Wish there was a 223/556 version.
22 boz
Be nice if we could get an actual P90 with select-fire
I want a select-fire P90 so bad and would settle for a PS90 but every time I think about buying one I look at the price of 5.7x28mm and realize loading a magazine would cost as much as the magazine....
That thing would be W I D E.
If I remember correctly, the US military did show an interest in pursuing such a system. The issues were that the 5.56 was too hot (I don't believe that), and that the weapon system couldn't handle the M855. I don't know what the big catch was, maybe they couldn't create enough space for a 5.56 chamber versus the 5.7, yes the diameter is smaller, but the cartridge is longer, maybe the internal space of the P90 chassis limited the space available to enhance the chamber for the length. I do not know off the top of my head the chamber pressure differences between 223/5.56 and m855, but I know that all 5.56NATO chambers are rated for 223 but not all 223 are for 5.56, so I know from that, there is a difference in chamber pressures. 🤷♂️
I really like these nuanced videos about stuff like this, it really brings to light all the little details that veterans of the gun world might overlook and important information new people coming into the hobby might not know.
I've always referred to the "double feed" magazines as staggered feed when covering this issue on different types of firearms to our new recruits. I dislike using the same phrase/term for two different things. We refer to a "double feed" as a malfunction and "staggered feed" as to type of magazine. Less chance of a challenge to a test question. Great content, as usual.
I was wondering about that. I don't have a lot of firearms experience but I immediately thought: "Wait, wasn't double feed a type of malfunction? What's going on here?"
I’ve always heard it as double stack and single stack
@@TazyBaby the problem with that is lots of pistol mags are double stack single feed. Like the Glock 17 or Beretta 92 magazine. Double stack double feed is a bit different.
@@thomasshively7338 ahh yeah totally went over my head for a second there
I have several double stack single feed pistols and I solved my feeding problems by spraying the ammo with a dry silicone lubricant prior to loading. It doesn't evaporate and the rounds stay lubed until you need them. Ten years with zero problems.
What do you use? Do you spray it in a tumbler? Dry lube is interesting, while other lube would be disastrous.
Doesn't lubing the rounds,even with a dry lubricant, run the risk of increasing bolt thrust on the pistol? NATO EVPAT testing does this deliberately to reduce the case friction and increase the bolt thrust.
@@eaton33a It would increase slide velocity on closing. Would make it similar to dropping the slide with no mag in the pistol. For the most part it shouldn't be an issue but will cause more wear and could cause seer problems on something like a high end 1911 and it's really not needed. If you have the proper recoil spring the gun is designed to function without any additional lubrication and in my opinion is more likely to cause an issue, things like the film getting in chamber and causing extraction issues
@@ryanpeck3377 It was a rhetorical question really. Bolt Thrust is the rearward force exerted on the breech when a firearm is discharged. It is a function of chamber pressure and the internal area of the case head. The friction effect when the case expands under pressure against the chamber wall has a reductive effect on this. Lubricating the case could/will reduce this effect and increase bolt thrust. This in turn would increase the load on the firearms locking surfaces, amongst other things. As you say, this could cause 'issues'. Might not have too critical an effect in a pistol calibre though, given the pressures and case length.
Sounds like a good idea for one man, but militaries/police forces etc. probably wouldn't want the added hassle of an extra step. I could be wrong, though.
Wow! Thanks Ian for always exerting effort to answer questions. It takes a lot of patience to even read it and even to make time to answer the questions thoroughly. That’s why you wont go short on patreon supporters 🙌
I like this format. Much more accessible to get snippets like this rather than having to commit to 40+ minutes of a full Q&A.
Much prefer this format to the long Q&A format, thanks Ian!
he's like the qui gon jinn of firearms
he is gun jesus
You bite your tongue. Blasphemy. Blasphemy I say.
Qui GUN jinn
@@michaelrandall5007
It’s early in the morning but I think you win the internet today. I’m stealing this.
Somehow I think Ian would appreciate this comment.
For pistols another advantage is that having a single feed leaves more room for the linkage between trigger and sear that in most cases goes around the top of the magazine.
MP-443 Grach / MP-446 Viking ("Yarygina") is a year 2003 and onward (RUS) Pistol that uses double feed and is quite modern in size and function.
And that pistol jams quite often
Not anymore. Yes, you’re right, but it’s old version. Recently Kalashnikov Concern upgraded MP-443/446 for better reliability - including single-feed mags as well
IIRC, APS Stechkin and GSh-18 also use double feed, the Gyurza pistol probably as well. Seems like the Russians like the double feed.
Grach has very stiff springs in double feed mags, and normal springs in single feed mags. Single feed feeding lips act as guides to make the cartridge go where it needs to. Double feed lips cant ensure that, too little time for cartridge to go up and settle the bouncing. Gsh-18 also have very stiff mag springs, same reason.
@@Rigel_6I can't think of a glock that turned out crappy? Sure I'm not a big fan of them, but they are all insanely reliable. Plus glock releases a new model once a decade or so, if you even count their new guns as new (it's just existing parts in a different combination)
This channel is a black hole. I only wanted to know a thing or two about Luger (mostly where was the slide) and now I can't stop watching. Hopefully I'll get my first gun around this time next year.
...
The damn thing's a toggle lock. Everyone knows that.
@@lkhdmrtn newbies have to learn somewhere, and Ian is the perfect one to teach them.
suicide time
@@lkhdmrtn you could've easily helped the lad instead you chose to be an ignorant salty Mr. Know-It-All.
You must be fun at parties.
@@lkhdmrtn Complete noobs dont know this. Give them some slack and let them learn.
*casually has Bergmann 10/21 in background* The most passive and strongest of flexes.
So passive about it that it took me like 10 mins to realize "holy sh*t this dude has a unicorn gun just chilling in the background"
I actually really like these longer explanations. It helps me to understand the engineering, the little quarks within the different setups, better.
Thank you for this one!
I converted a HK4 .22LR mag into a 13 round mag. It was originally a 7 round mag. Originally, the mag had a post in the baseplate. I cut off the post and, Viola, 13 round .22LR mag. No .22LR feed problems in all the years I've owned it. Surprisingly, the .22LR kit consistently puts rounds within a 6 inch circle at 7 meters (very accurate). The .380 kit always put rounds low & to the left at 7 meters (good info for emergency situations). I bought the HK4 in 1976. It was manufactured by Heckler & Koch but had a Harrington & Richardson nameplate. The 4 caliber set for the HK4 could not be purchased from H&R.
I am a very long time shooter who never thought about it, but you made this concept very clear to understand. Thank you Ian.
Thank you, Ian
This reminds me of the Norinco CF98 pistol. When these came in Canada the first time they had double feed magazines. They have since changed to a single feed magazine.
I love this single question format, perfect to watch on a lunch break at work!
Very interesting information presented beautifully as always sir.
Not boring at all. I never found Ian boring due to his own excitement about the discussed topics ...
I am convinced that if we are to progress much further when it comes to cartridge fed weapons we must look more to untraditional magazine and feeding systems. Now a days it seems like the magazine is an afterthought or chosen as a "safe" component. Its funny when you see innovative new firearms that use 100+ year old magazine designs...
I would agree with you, but there really isn't a lot that can be done to improve the basic principles of mag design, which is why all these new firearms are using that 100+ mag design. If it works, you get the desired result (a feeding, functioning firearm), why mess with success?
Altering mag design to something weird and unconventional would generally be done in accompaniment to the use of a strange feed system. See P90 with its rotating feed lips and the G11 with its vertically rotating breech.
@@tankeroftheeast105 And on top of that, magazines apparently tend to be one of the most difficult parts to design reliably, and the market likes it when they can use magazines/magazine carriers they already own.
@@Howjadoo22 Exactly, couldn't have put better myself.
Rimmed shotgun shells
I feel like I learn at least a little every time I watch one of these videos. As a fan of longer videos, I feel this format actually works a lot better for making a good overview of a specific concept or mechanism. Great stuff as always, Mr. Ian.
Thank you. I enjoyed this format. It. Is good to know why things evolved to what we have today.
I love this video, I love the content, and the expertise.
Not just in firearms but in making youtube videos.
You have your ass covered at every corner, there is no point where you say something without directly addressing the obvious issues people may have. I love it, its so fun to watch.
Keep doing what you do, you obviously know your shit and have a passion for it and I love it, I'm sorry the internet is the way it is.
I like this much better than the other Q&A format! Thanks!
I really enjoyed this format for q&a stuff, more time to go in depth for questions. Keep it coming.
I like single feed glock mags and everything but I'm really digging these dubbel feed mags for CZ scorpion this is a dang nice mag
Can I touch your Scorpion mag?
While I have gathered this from many of your videos, it’s nice to have in an easy to access spot, and a refresher.
I never watched the old Q&As because they were so long and may have included stuff I was not interested in and I had to commit to find out what the video was about.
Love this new format!
I like this new format too. It allows you to go into a little more detail in answering questions Ian.
I like this format of Q&A, allows the information to be much more easily searched for on top of the extra information depth it provides.
That was not even *remotely* boring. That's *precisely* the kind of discussion I'm here for.
I used to have a 25round 22 magazine that had that constant pressure wound-up spring and it was so easy to use and spoiled me. I want that with double feed in a pistol. This was an interesting and great video Ian. Thank you.
Never even thought about this before, thank you! I'm a relatively new gun owner (got my first in 2020 after never having fired a gun in my 38 years here).
Not in the slightest bit boring, in fact very informative and fun to watch/listen to. Immediately looking forward to more of these.
Really like this "deep dive" Q&A format. I'll miss the older version, but I think this is a better idea overall. Thanks!
Before my country decided to ban handguns, I loved single stack magazines because often they would not need to be pinned in order to stay within the guidelines of magazine capacities. I love guns, but the idea of having something like a FiveseveN with a giant grip, and only 10 rounds just felt so wrong. An unmodified 1911 magazine is perfectly legal on the other hand; I can feel like I’m not just making due with what my laws restrict me to.
One thing Ian didn't mention that I think has some effect here is the length and shape of round. A rifle round is usually longer and more narrow, particularly at the tip where it can be more easily and reliably fed into the chamber, where a pistol round is typically short and blunt. Just think about the physics of the two, and it's obvious the pistol round will jam up more when attempting to 'angle' them into the chamber.
I really like these simple explanatory videos. As a person from another country where we don't have the same gun-culture as you Americans these are really helpful in order to understand the mechanics of a firearm.
You consistently explain nesessarily convoluted engineering in easy to follow terms and so enable adequate understanding necessary for making wiser gun decisions. A rare talent - kudos sir.
Ian these are my favorite of your videos. Your Q&As are endlessly fascinating.
Oh Ian, how could that be boring! That is one of the most interesting & concise explanations of the topic!! More! More! More!
Thanks to Tyler for asking a question I had no clue how to answer and to Ian who explained all aspects of the answer. Excellent question and excellent Video!
That was very interesting, I really like the idea of this new format. Very excited for the coming questions!
Great format for these questions. I enjoy the long Q&A videos but don’t always have an hour of time to dedicate to watching one. A 5-10 minute video is a great idea.
Not only is this video idea great for answering questions more in depth, but a great way to interact with the community more. I could see this style blowing up!
You're right! My A-Bolt 2 Browning is double feed. But my X-Bolt is single feed! My 22 lr of course is single feed. It makes a lot of sens. Thank you!
🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻
I really liked this format. I was never a big fan of the QnA videos because of the length, plus I rarely actually found the question in the title. More please!!!
Rifles, particularly assault rifles, also use double stack/feed systems because they typically have much larger 30 round magazines. So there is an obvious advantage to either making the magazines physically shorter or getting more into them for the same length, as magazines can only be so long before they start to inhibit soldiers' ability to fight while prone or in confined spaces.
What I love about Ian is the accessibility of his information. He speaks simply enough for a newb to understand, yet delves deep enough for a veteran to gain new insight.
The Gun Jesus speaketh...
I really like this format! There's a lot of good Q&A questions that are worth a deeper dive like this!
It was actually very interesting and presented in a very accessible and compact form, thank you.
i love the normal Q&A
favorite vid of the month
Nice and entertaining format for people who don't have the time to stick to the long QA's. By the amount of views I guess that this went pretty well, hope to see more in the future
Ah man i really loved your q&a. I have watched all of them over the years and the in range ones. I hope you reconsider it,it truly was a highlight for me as it was like having a "conversation" with you to pock your thoughts on niche/interesting topics.
I never knew that there were any double feed pistol magazines even though I have one. I didn't remember that my FiveseveN is double feed until a commenter mentioned that very gun. Seems like an unnecessary complication to the firearm design. But it is exactly why I disdain Glock magazines in PCC's.
Engagement for algorithm!
As much as I ridicule the Five-Seven, I wouldn't say the double feed magazine is unnecessary. You have to remember that by default, it feeds from a 20 round magazine, which is pretty considerable for a handgun. Like Ian said in the video, if a gun with a high-capacity magazine fed from a single narrow channel, it could introduce feeding issues due to the extra pressure exerted on the uppermost cartridges.
@@washingmachine969 actually, I have +10 round extensions on my FiveseveN magazines, and they function flawlessly.
Is it hard to load the mags compared to single feed ones? Russian double feed mags have very stiff springs to make them reliable. Single feed mag lips are guiding the cartridge to the chamber, so it doesnt matter as much if the cartridge is bouncing a little. Doulbe feed lips are not so great in that regard.
@@eloiseharbeson2483 Probably because it's a double feed magazine.
Great idea Ian, I like this Q&A format better.
Love these kinds of videos where you get to explain in depth mechanical aspects of guns both in technical/pratical terms and historical
I honestly didn't know that I had always wondered about this until you started getting into the video. Great info and really really interesting
I LIVE for the moments Ian whips out a gun from off-screen. He's always got it at the ready.
EXCELLENT FORMAT !! The SINGLE QUESTION Q&A is the way to go. GREAT IDEA, IAN !!
This video was great Ian, I think the format works well I've been wanting more videos like your difference between smg, pdw and machine pistol video and this scratches that itch
I'm not even that interested in guns, but I always enjoy listening to Ian explaining how stuff works. Its mesmerizing!
Thank you an absolutely excellent explanation video. I was obvious to me that double was more difficult. But I never thought about the lower receiver having to be more robust/bulky. I think your new Q&A is a great idea.
Pistols have higher recoil velocity and shorter, straight walled cartridges. The majority of pistols are designed as controlled feed,meaning the rim of the cartridge engages the extractor before completely stripped from the magazine. The final push from the magazine aligns the cartridge fully in the breech face.
Double feed magazines are used in push feed as bottleneck cartridges align easier.
Oddly enough, Mauser used control feed from a double feed magazine. This was done with a large, open bolt face and a long, straight extractor face which allowed feed from either side. Control feed was felt to be necessary during the rattle of battle and fast bolt actuation.
Hi Ian, long term watcher of about 5 years now. Liking the new format for the Q&A. Cheers
Thanks for this. I always watch the q&a but can't always watch it all at once. This is nice 👌 👍
I think another consideration is that with pistols you are generally working with a short, wide, cartridge, which if you can imagine when trying to feed from either side of a mag you would have to have a really wide loading ramp/cone to make it work. Generally rifle rounds are longer and start narrow, this means your loading ramp/cone doesn't have to be super wide (reletive to the geometry of the gun).
When you look at pistols that fire rounds that are like small rifle rounds, fn five seven perhaps, you can use double stack magazines.
CZ shadow p2 shot 1500+ rounds on stage shooting and precision shooting this year, not a single issue with double feed.. the only issues i had is with aftermarket weak trigger springs for faster and more precise shooting, and with diy bullet fillings since i use less gunpowder for less recoil of the firearm.
Just realized my MP-57 (Ruger 57 conversion).. has a double feed mag setup. Going to check the rest of my pistols too. I never thought to check this. I've had a few like a Beretta M9A1 that had mags that was a pain to load. One good thing about double feed mags in my ARs etc I've noticed is they're hard to unload typically. But if you take a round and press on the 2nd from the top bullet as you unload the top one it releases the pressure on it and makes it just fall out. With practice you can unload mags very fast this way
For the Swiss STGW 57 you have both - depending on the Magazine you are using - the normal 24 Shot Aluminium Magazine ist doublefeed - and the 30Shot Magazine - actually the LMG 25 Steele magazine - is singlefeed - Both works fine - but i had the impression that the precission while shooting the singlefeed 30 shot is slightly better - But the 30 Shot Magazine is Gigantic in size, as the bullets are stacked in a much steeper angle
Thank you Ian for answering this question and thank you Tyler for asking it. This has been on my mind for a while as well.
George Kelgren made magazines for both his 22 WMR pistols (grendel p-30 and Pmr 30) double feed, and also created a divider for the two stacks at the rear of the magazine, thereby making 2 single stack magizines incorporated into one. Thats how he gets 30 rounds of potentially rim-locked ammo into such a small package.
I think it's most interesting to see the disparity between single and double feed with pistol caliber carbines. The en vogue thing is typically using standard pistol mags (eg PC Charger with Glock mags, Cx4 Storm with 92/Px4 mags) but PCCs with a proprietary mag design seem to tend towards double feed (Stribog, MP5, B&T if I'm not mistaken). Although not ideal for adverse reliability, it's also worth noting the extended (20-33rd) mags for Glock and Beretta have certainly proven their worth by functioning reliably in platforms like the G18, Vector, M93 Raffica and Mx4 Storm, which all fire incredibly fast in full auto.
thank you for another great video ian - one of the only firearm channels I actually watch. as a designer/creative, I find your work incredibly inspirational.
I like both the formats! I prefer it long but it'd bee cool for it to be long but with the extra detail and explanations in! Like a bigger super video! Love Ian and his stuff!
I really like this format and I hope it sticks around in the future
I much prefer this to the long Q&As, as I may not have interest in the entire video, but with this style of Q&A I am less likely to miss out on a topic I'm interested in.
I actually loved this video
It's really nice having a complete video dedicated on a topic
Glock 43X with PSA Micro double stack 15 round mags: Hold my beer.
I'll throw my 2 cents to say single topic vids are like this are way easier for the algorithm to reach their intended audience and putting in the Qs like this makes people to find this sorta thing a lot easier.
The Ruger 57 is a modern example of a double feed magazine, granted it is shooting what is basically a baby rifle round.
Hey Ian!!! There is one aspect that I especially appreciate about your videos that is very nearly as important to me as your endless knowledge on firearms. Well, two things. Lol.
1: you are a humble creator. If mistakes are made you readily admit if it was your fault and you are very respectful to all of your guests even if a few of them seemed like people who would have been difficult to spend the day with.
And 2: (very cool in my opinion). I have never once heard you complain about any political issue…ever. I have watched hundreds of your videos and you deftly explain the entire history of the guns themselves without bringing politics into it.
Even though it could be said that many different things about guns have changed over the years based on politics and laws, I, to this day, would be hard pressed to guess who you would vote for.
I find this inspirational, very respectful and very respectable!!
I will never ask and I hope I never find out about what your political leanings are.
Your videos are all about the guns and never the politics surrounding them which I am sure is not easy, especially these days.
Every time I think I know everything I could want to know about guns I watch another episode and learn something new and cool.
Thank you sir!!! You are a gentleman and a scholar, and I hope some day to shake your hand and thank you in person.
Ian is pretty progressive. He turned off the comments on several videos because of white supremacists for example.
Really interesting. Videos like this are some of your best in my opinion.
Great video! That's the first time I've heard that explanation given so clear.
I love the format Ian.....keep up the good work
In-line feeding in a small space but also trigger bars?
The double-stack Beretta M92 uses an external trigger bar although the design started out as the single-stack M1951 with an internal linkage.
What I think is needed is a not quite single feed pistol magazine, by which I mean the feed lips are far enough apart you can simply push down the cartridge between the feed lips but the rounds still have to angle towards the centre from either side. It would be so much easier to load a magazine that and it would more or less eliminate the wider slide issue.
Fun topic, and really well covered and explained.
had this talk w my dad the other day... comparing 9mm sub guns and 9mm pistol feeding mechanisms and why "it takes glock mags" isnt always good.
Another example of a double feed handgun is the CF-98. The mags are very nice to load, except for the non-factory 10 rounder magazines which are 15 round pined to 10. Those are almost imposable to load to 10 rounds because whoever pined them to 10 rounds decided that they needed to fit 10 rounds and not one mm more.
Just bought a PSA Rock 5.7x28 pistol, and was marveled at the double stack magazine lol
Single feed pistol mags are also easier to perform reloads with, as you're putting a slightly smaller box into a slightly bigger box initially. This might make the difference between fumbling or not fumbling a reload, especially under stress.
We've seen single stack, single feed. We've seen double stack, single feed. We've even seen double stack, double feed.
But I want to see single stack, double feed...
This was actually something I wondered about, why all hand guns seem to have hard to load single feed mags. Thank you for making it so easy to understand!
1) Also feed lips of the single feed mags act as guides, and it doesnt matter as much if the round is bouncing a little as it comes up and hits the lips.
2) Russian double feed handguns have very stiff mag springs. As i understand it was nescessary because the bolt is very fast and bolt travel is very short. Cartridges have to go up and settle the bouncing very quickly.
For example MP-443 Grach (Yarygin Pistol) had very stiff springs in double feed mags, but they redesigned it to feed both from double and single feed mags, and single feed ones have normal springs.