as the potential of car gets bigger, you need more natural talent to extract that from a car. with a car going max 10 km/h, the difference will be minimal. Quote from Horner: Checo said it's a mindfuck being Max teammate, you see his data and you question yourself "how is he THAT fast true that corner, how does he do that"........ Checo can (sometimes) get the same laptimes out of the car, but only for a few laps, while Max (as in Mexico 2022) can drive 42 laps within 0,3sec of laptime........... sometimes Max drives 10 laps within 0,1sec of laptime........ mind blowing. Try running around your coffeetable within 0,1 sec........... 🤣
Max’s consistency is almost robotic. That natural ability as you say is a big reason for why he’s able to maintain a high performance ceiling compared to his teammates.
Don't forget also his F3 year. His two teammates never won a single race while Max won 10. With only one of them being able to score a podium while Max got 16.
Why can one driver extract so much more? Because the engineers have a symbiotic relationship with the number 1 driver, who provides the feedback necessary to push the development of the car to the highest level. The gap to his teammate is naturally bigger with Max, due to his short corner, "on-the-nose" driving style that, while may be the optimum way to drive a car by practically abusing the laws of physics, is difficult to live with for almost anyone else.
its always the number 1 driver who gives the team the best way forward. Unfortunately for checo, Max's driving style is way tooo on knife edge for Checo to consistently drive on since the Red Bull is so in tune with Max's driving style
Max’s driving style is a factor I forgot to take into account. And it’s difficult to replicate for the guy on the other side of the garage (be it Checo, Danny Ric, or whoever).
Yes. We can call this the Peter Windsor appreciation thread 😉 His insight is miles ahead of everyone else; he's doing the job of TV pundits better than they are. It's not baseless speculation either. I've experienced what a pointy car feels like in Sim Racing, and while I obviously cannot reproduce what Max does, its possible to get a taste of what he's doing behind the wheel. I can see how Peter arrived at his conclusion on how the best drivers rotate the car like that.. its actually ridiculous that everyone in F1 isn't talking about it. (Yet!)
"It's just Max being Max" - Helmut Marko... Very true but Checo hasn't been there in P2 since Miami which is questionable. Ever since he called himself a "championship contender" it's gone down hill since then...probably too much pressure on himself.
a curious case is to examine the opening few races in 2022 when the red bull was overweight and had a balance more towards understeer. checo was very close to max in qualifying, indicating that when the balance of the car is relatively neutral, his performance ceiling is quite close to the car’s limit, this is probably why he shone in force india. but when the balance of the car became more pointy (because a pointy car is inherently quicker as it can rotate better), checo didn’t have the natural talent that max has in terms of manipulating the rear end and keeping it in check. in spa, the team recommended him to use max’s setup but checo found it undriveable. max’s talent allows the team to use an optimal setup, though it is so extreme that most drivers can’t handle it. it was the same with schumacher in ferrari
Exactly. The 2022 example is perfect in this case. There was a point mid season where Checo was talking about how the development “going away from him” which implied the upgrades didn’t suit his style as well. Although they improved the car overall, if you can’t extract the most out of them, then there’s not much of an improvement.
But when Checo was winning races at the beginning of 2023, both he and the team were lauding the fact that the car is quick with either setup preference. It just sounds like another excuse for trying too hard. People are better than other people at stuff, it’s a fact. Checo has always been a bit of a journeyman, his inconsistency has been a trademark of his career. 🤷🏻♂️
I think the difference is very much driver related. F1 always has a balance between having the fastest setup up to the point the car becomes undrivable. Max does that but Alonso as well. Other drivers just can't handle that car in the same setup. The second point is the pressure of being outclassed by your teammate all the time. Every F1 driver believes he is capable of winning the WDC. If your teammate just is faster that builds pressure and can cause you to overdrive and look bad. I think this is the case with Checo
I see valid point made here. first off I am mere spectator and enthused fan, not in any way having much knowledge on car specifics or drivers techniques etc, but I read somewhere else that the driver styles of Max and Checo differ as much as night differs to day. From early childhood onwards Max has been trained, programmed perhaps, to take to full speed immediately, short corner on the nose style etc. It's like in his nature and muscle memory. Checo drives differently which is also in his nataure and muscle memory, and I heard that suggestions were made he'd adapt some of Max's characteristics into his own way of driving to get more from RB19, such as shorter corners. One could argue that this is perhaps an impossible thing to achieve in a short period of time and I think in that process he may have lost touch with valuable elements of his own style which contributes to bad results and in turn loss of confidence and more struggle.... is this making sense?
@SuperPassionflower it is true that the favourite driving style of both is different. Max likes the front more stable and manages a more instable rear, and Checo likes a stable rear and manages a front that likes to go straight in the corner. In the same car, usually the stable front and more loose rear is faster, which is probably why Max's father learned Max to drive that way. Last year, the Redbull had a very loose front end, and Max had to adapt quite much at the start of the year. That's when Checo looked to drive almost as fast as Max. During the year, they adjusted the car, making it possible to drive with a pointy front end. That's when Max went faster, and Checo claimed they developed the car away from him. In fact, they didn't develop the car away from Checo, they made it possible for Max to drive his favourite driving style. This year, both driving styles are possible in the Redbull. That's what enabled Checo to have some great performances early in the year. Those performances also made him a title contender with additional pressure. I do believe that's what's bothering Checo. I think he is much better as he's able to show the last view races.
@@ruudkooijman819 thanks for further explaining, learnful for me and a day with nothing learned is a wasted day! does all this also relate to preference for over-steer (Max I am told) and under-steer (Checo I am told) ? Asking for a friend.. me haha. oh misschien wel een aardige: heb je de video van Driver61 channel gezien met de vraagstelling why is checo struggling in the RB. benieuwd naar je idee over de uitleg. ik vind het fascinerend
I agree with you both (I said a similar thing in my own comment). I hope this becomes more common knowledge now, so the grid can start getting a little closer together.
5:38 It feels to me like you are contradicting all your other points in this video here. You should see what Peter Windsor has to say about this. He says with the best drivers it is around 60% the car and 40% the driver, with worse drivers it is less than that 40% ,because they can not extract as much performance, but that also means a very big percentage of the car's performance is made that by the driver. Especially in Max's case he helps a lot to engineer the car to become faster.
Max is an allround champion,,, he knows the settings of the car, he speaks the language of the Mechanics, he has an head mechanic, that really know Mas, and does know that he never has to take Max' comments personal if it goes wrong. All about Max, is about perfection. And Max knows his Mechanics, all about his car, all about his skills.. and even about the circuit and the circumstances... about the tyres, the pitstops. Max knows everything, there is to know. And yes, his father Jos probably learned Max the most of it!
I would argue that the trend of Red Bull having unusually large teammate gaps isn't a Red Bull thing, it's a Newey thing. When Newey gets a lead driver he works well with, they shine, to the detriment of the second driver. Usually, the lead driver's gap over their teammate grows as they stay at the team longer. This happened with Mansell taking a huge leap forward over Patrese in 1992; with Häkkinen taking a leap forward over Coulthard in 1998-1999; with Räikkönen taking a leap over Coulthard in 2002-2004 before making Montoya look average in 2005-2006; with Vettel taking a leap forward over Webber in 2011-2013; and with Verstappen taking a leap forward over Ricciardo in 2018, before making Gasly, Albon and Pérez look second-rate in 2019-2023. Newey is the best since Colin Chapman at getting the maximum out of his star driver.
Max is a one in a hundred years talent. Checo isn't. And beside Max being at RB quite a few years longer, I believe the quality of Max's feedback towards the engineers is way better than Checo's. Max learned a lot about cars from his father. Checo just doesn't have the capabilities Max has. Mental and mind included. When Max is in the car you think he's cruising while doing all kinds of things on the wheel and he still has room in his mind for other things.
@@Enzoblueblood He's referring to a quote from Lauda, who called Max the talent of the century after he saw him win in his first race for RB in Spain 2016. With the rate Max is going at now, he has all the opportunity to smash all the records and become a double digit WDC. I think it's pretty safe to say that, should he actually do such a thing, those records may well be safe for a century if not longer. He changed the game so much, no driver will be able to enter F1 as young as he was, when he was 17. The FIA actually changed the rules to prevent such a thing from happening.
@@EntropicExergy well, that clarifies. Kinda. Thing is, if the fia changed the rules that prohibits any other 17-18yr old from driving in f1, that means Lauda has no reference to make a comparison, as far as we know, the talent of all time has yet to arrive in f1, and as brilliant Max’s win was, he wasn’t a novice at that stage and he did have the two merc boys to thank for that win
@@Enzoblueblood He was the first to get into it at that age, skipped F2 completely. If anything, he was the benchmark, as he still is today. If anything, Lauda was a three time WDC, in the very least that should tell you he has the knowledge and is qualified enough to state such a claim. As far as single seaters go, he only had a single year of F3 and single seaters and jumping straight into F1, you can very much consider him a novice. The merc was so OP, it was simply a cheat of a car. Generally speaking, except for an outlier of a track like Mexico or Brazil, merc would win anyway. In a way, lulu helped launch his own nemesis by crashing out Nico and himself that race, allowing Max to take that first win. History can be rather ironic that way.
@@EntropicExergy I’m sorry, I love talking f1 with anyone but once you start throwing names like Lulu or stuff like that I just can’t take you seriously. I know who Lauda is. I remember him winning his 3rd title and I know his value to the sport; in fact, he’s one of my personal heroes in life, and I am familiar with his comments about Max but like anything in life, there’s perspective. Lauda has no other 17-18yr old to compare Max to because Max is the only one that was ever recruited to F1, so when Niki uses one of his famous hyperbole and mindful to put things into perspective.
Interesting. So the job for Helmut Marko is to find a driver that is 1 super consistent, 2 can drive with loads of front end grip. Why? Because that wins races. So, why is nobody as fast as Max? Because they have driving styles that do not win races, scraping off energy in the form of rubber from their front tyres.
Too quickly we forget how many "Great Drivers" came and went before Checo. Head to head with the best driver in a generation. Someday all time? Bet the Farm says Honeybadger won't do better.
How many great drivers? Albon (not one of the greats)? Gasley (not one of the greats)? Ricciardo was the strongest teammate Max ever had, and he beat Max in 2 out of 3 seasons. Max has never been tested by a great driver as a teammate in his entire career.
@@pablokenzie47 Since Max wasn't in the RB in every race in 2016 that season does not count, making it 1 out of 2 seasons. Add to that, that in 2017 Max had way more DNF's and when those DNF's happened Max was ahead of Daniel a vast majority of times, you really can't say Daniel beat him. That unreliable Renault engine beat Max, not Daniel, but to see that one has to look at the actual facts. Just for your sake, i hope Daniel gets to replace Perez, whether that is after the summer break or starting next season. With that reliable Honda RBPT we will see who beats who in a straight up battle. I already know the smart money is on Max beating Daniel, again. That last point is especially BS, since to become champion you don't just have to beat your teammate, but the entire grid. Max has done it twice already and is working on the third time. Heck, he even did it with a car that was lesser to the merc in 2021. Max had his big test that season and he passed with flying colours.
@@EntropicExergy The problem I have with Max fans is I have yet to meet one who is not delusional. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE, SkySports, F1 TV, BBC, and all the sports media outlets I came across, not to mention Mercs, Ferrari, and other drivers all confirmed RedBull had by FAR the most superior car all season in 2021 up until Brazil. In the last 4 races, Mercs had the upper hand. For you to spin the fantastically foolish narrative that RB was lesser than Merc for the first 18 races tells me all I need to know about your fictional reality. Have a nice day sir, I hope you get the medication you need to snap back into reality.
The fastest cars in F1 have always been tight in the nose and more open in the rear, good drivers know how to use that and know how to make sure the rear follows the rest of the car. If a driver (or team) can't handle that it's a safer option to design a car more to the rear, less errors from the drivers so more consistent in the race BUT..... not just as fast. So yes it is a combination of car design and driver. Schumacher knew how to (in almost every corner without making big mistakes) put the car in almost a drift and in that way make the rear turn with the corner (tight front and loose rear of the car). Alonso had to use some overpower in the renault to push the car through the corner while the front goes straigt to the point where he pointed it to (again tight front and loose rear). If the red-bull is also designed that way (Max likes a tight front) then Checko (and all other drivers of Red-Bull) has to live with the fact the car is not so comfortable in the rear.
If you look at how Perez is doing, you wouldn't call it dominant at all, whereas Max is making it look uber dominant. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It is dominant compared to the entire field, but not as dominant as the merc was, which was seconds a lap faster than any other car. Merc tended to get near constant 1-2's, which RB isn't doing now. Max is so damn good; he is making that car look more dominant than it really is.
Where Checo has become disappointing this year is because the redbull car is so so dominant. When Mercedes was in the same situation, for what felt like a decade, teammates had trouble matching Hamilton. The difference then, was the #2 driver could be counted on to be on the podium week after week.
DR is the most logical teamate in future, ticks nearly all the boxes and above all he knows he isnt coming to be a number 1. Likes of norris would want to challenge max and might end up the checo route. Yuki is still not ready imo, despite having a brilliant season.
Masterful and captivating … you make a compelling argument with meticulous attention to detail, as always. Sadly 😅 for cynics like myself, it’s hard to shake off what you described at the start of the video - a collusion in favour of Max 😂. Great video though … we’ll see you in the next one.
The car is developed in a certain direction to suit Max's driving style. RB have alluded to this for some time. You can't blame Red bull for doing that given Max is simply the better driver, but the style isn't shared by many drivers so the second driver is likely to struggle. The only driver that shared the similar style is probably Daniel Ricciardo as he likes an oversteering car which takes speed into a corner. This is why both of them were very evenly matched as team mates.
I wouldn't say that Ricciardo was evenly matched with Max. The many DNF's that Max had with that unreliable Renault engine might make it seem like that, but that matching was probably the case for the first half of a season or so they were together. Ricciardo ran away from RB at the end of 2018 for a reason, he probably realised that Max' potential would go way beyond his own ceiling. Ricciardo is a pretty good driver, but he never was called the talent of a century like Lauda called Max after he had won Spain 2016.
Any Motorsport driver/rider has his own preferential setting for cars/bike he will drive/ride. A 7 time-MotoGP World Champion, Rossi failed to ride Ducati (a bike is built on Stoner input) fast like what his predecessor did because his mechanic at the times failed to set up Ducati into Yamaha. So, what can we learn from this: even a great driver will struggle to drive a car fast if the car setup is long way off from his preferential setup liking. Let's see Max drives super biased udersteery car (away off from his drive input preference), how well he will be fare against a common great understeery car driver. Danny Ric failed at Maca stint because Maca was already max-out optimized to his setup liking. H/e, it is still long, long way off from his best setup liking hence why he doesn't have confident he used to have in RBR previously to turn and rotate the car fast in corner.
Many F1 greats have commented on this fan idea being false. They say it may hold true for mediocre drivers but the best adapt their style to fit the car as needed.
@@ask.repeat true but it depends on how much the new driver is able to convince the team to to change the cars philosophy. If you'd ont remember, Max always wants his car to turn and in the past has complained many times when he didn't get the front downforce that he wanted. We'll never know how well Max can adapt to another car until he moves to a team that has a high understeery car. Unless he again convinces the team to change that philosophy too
Max beat Perez and the rest of the field easily in the first half of last year when the car was strongly understeering because of it being massively overweight. He already did what you claim he needs to, yet you still show up with the same nonsensical drivel. Just admit it, you hate Max and how he is the best F1 will ever have known by the time he retires. Contrary to what this guy below you states, you have no clue of F1 and it shows. Stick to your motoGP and leave F1 to the people who do get the game of F1.
Ah yeah it makes so much sense that checo was doing so great at the beginning of the season and then suddenly just forgot how to drive the car yess that makes so much sense
I don't think they will bother putting him in AT first, that team is purely meant to prep their junior academy drivers for the real thing at RB itself. If they plan to replace Perez with Daniel, they'll put him straight in the RB.
Dont forget that Checo failed at McLaren as teammate of Lewis in, ehm, 2013 (thanks Google). Lasted for 1 season. Checo should accept he's no. 2 at RB.
How many great drivers did Max have as a teammate? Albon (not one of the greats)? Gasley (not one of the greats)? Ricciardo was the strongest teammate Max ever had, and he beat Max in 2 out of 3 seasons. Max has never been tested by a great driver as a teammate in his entire career.
@@xSCHEF RIC ripped Max a new ass in 2015 and did it again in 2016 (Meanwhile the GOAT had the best rookie season in history in 2007 and became DWC in 2008) RIC left RB when he realized the team was firmly tucked up inside Max's asshole and has been ever since 2016. 2 - 1 to Ricciardo. Put Max in any other team and he will retire because he will get exposed. Without a car that is 22mph quicker than everyone else Max is nothing. Bottas could beat Max in the same car.
@@xSCHEF I already corrected this guy in another post, but you probably won't see it. Whatever the case, this post tells me he looks only at some stats on wikipedia, but never actually followed actual seasons. Max was ahead after only a couple of races together in the RB already, the unreliable Renault forcing him to DNF far too often for that to become apparent. There is a clear reason why, as you correctly state, Max forced him to run away from RB. Max was always going to be better and Ricciardo knew that too.
We can all agree that Max is extremely talented and is better than checo, but I can’t help but think about every little decision that can be made during a race that could affect one or the other, without being the main reason of this dominance don’t you think all those small call in a race could advantage max a bit.
Alonso and Hamilton are excellent drivers but even with machinery to challenge Max I don't think they can do it... Since 2019 Max is the best driver on the grid!
@@SwaggySimon20 Hamilton couldn't even beat Verstappen in 2021 when Hamilton had better machinery and plenty of luck throughout the season. Remember the red flag in Imola? If the incident between Bottas and Russell happened a lap later Hamilton wouldn't have scored any points. On the other hand Verstappen had all the bad luck, like Silverstone, Hungary and Baku. We don't need to talk about Abu Dhabi, those 7 points are insignificant to everything else that happened in the season that unfairly benefited Hamilton. Verstappen won that season by being much more consistent than Hamilton and making far less errors. He was simply by a substantial margin the better driver. So no, Hamilton can not match Verstappen, that discussion was already settled in 2021 and confirmed again in 2022 when Verstappen showed what he can deliver from a car that was only the best car in the second half of the season. Compare that to Hamilton who had the best car 8 seasons straight and an absolutely dominant one in at least 5 seasons. Hamiltons at his best has never been as strong as Verstappen.
The car setup and psychology of the garage need to be considered. Remember Monte Carlo 2022? All that nastiness about the crash in qualifying that apparently spoiled Max's chance of a pol? Remember Max's mother said something really vile about Checo cheating on his wife? Maybe that was just the press stirring but I understood from it that Max wanted him out and what Max wants Max gets. I wonder if Red Bull treated him fairly. I think they have a down on him and want him out of his contract early. It's a very great shame.
There are pictures of Perez cheating on his wife after he stole that win from Max in that very same weekend. That weekend we saw the true face of Perez, a vile backstabbing little creature. You can bet your behind RB has treated him well, he just isn't good enough to beat Max. There is no logical reason for RB to treat him any different as they want to win constructors too and before a season starts you have no idea whether you need all the points from the second driver or not. And if Max gets what he wants, why did they sign Perez anyway? Max had suggested Hulkenberg as they are on friendly terms and Max likes hanging with the Hulk, yet it didn't happen. Your entire post is BS is the only possible conclusion here.
I would like to see max driving a car which isn't designed according to his absolute preferences . The redbull since 2019 has always been a tailor-made outfit to fit max like a glove , seeing max drive a car which is made for checo's driving ability will clear any doubts
Me personally, no one will succeed at red Bull as a second driver. The car is set up 100% to max's liking and the other driver has to just deal with it It cannot be a coincidence that every driver fails when they were competitive in lesser cars There's been two times they gave checo equal machinery then got results then randomly dropped off Which was when checo first joined and also at the start of this season gets a new contract then all of a sudden he's nowhere I just don't think the drivers have equal chance to beat each other Barrichello won races, against Schumacher Rosberg and bottas won races against Lewis Just think that is max's car and max's team and will always have 95% favouritism which makes it impossible for any driver to succeed at red Bull that isn't named Max verstappen And it's obviously obvious the way max throws a tantrum every single time that it isn't 120% in his favour
@@garythefishable people just cant handle the fact that Max is THAT much faster. I cant remember the time people said Perez is a huge talent and future WDC, especially in his earlier career. Difference with Norris, Russel, Leclerc is that they are spoken of as future WDC
Merc is far more toxic. The amount of times we heard "Valterri, it's James" is staggering. All when merc was dominant and many of those instances unnecessary. RB only issued such an order once in AD21. That's because Max is so much faster, they generally don't need to.
"The best drivers extract the performance from their cars" Not true. Early in the season when the car had good balance but didn't have as much oversteer as Max prefers, Checo was doing well and Max wasn't winning by 20+ secs. The reality is Max prefers a car that is extremely unstable but also performs at his best in that type of car. Redbull will always build a car suited to their #1 driver. You can't argue with the results and you cannot compare Max to his teammates for this reason.
If you know that oversteering cars are much faster than the understeering variety, you'd arrive at the opposite conclusion. Max still won far more races in that first half of last year than Perez while the car was very much an understeering one. He might not have won comfortably, but that is simply because of the fact i just told you, physics prevented him from doing so. But hey, a win is a win and Max adapted to still beat Perez in a car Perez preferred. Ever since the car lost weight and headed towards oversteer, Max started to win with larger gaps, just as physics tells us. In other words, Max did indeed extract the maximum performance of the car, that performance was simply limited with the ceiling being raised through in-season development. Thus your post is wrong.
Danny Ric beat Max in 2016 and 2017 so he is not unbeatable. Redbull don't want anybody in the car that can beat Max because Max and his dad can't handle it. Can you imagine if Max got to Redbull and he had to go up against an Alonso, a 2x world champ. That would have been the end of Max's story. I mean F1 and the FIA had to step in and stop Lewis from beating him. Max's has I lot more to prove
Well 2016 he started several races into the season, on race 4 if I recall and had more DNFs than Daniel. He had 7 DNFs in 2017 to Daniel's 6. But like he said in the video, it's much akin to Seb and Webber
@@Hellstorm616 Not to mention that when Max DNF'ed he generally was ahead of Daniel, meaning those DNF's cost him far more points. But don't think the Max haters care for facts, they never really paid attention to F1 anyway.
In points.. yes due to dnf's. Never lost at qualify any teammate.. Sainz was his main competitor.. Faster Qualify Sainz vs verstappen 0.06% Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11% Gasly vs verstappen 0.45% Albon vs verstappen 0.62% Perez vs verstappen 0.46% Faster Race wins Sainz vs verstappen 54.5% Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6% Gasly vs verstappen 90% Albon vs verstappen 88.9% Perez vs verstappen 88.1%
as the potential of car gets bigger, you need more natural talent to extract that from a car. with a car going max 10 km/h, the difference will be minimal. Quote from Horner: Checo said it's a mindfuck being Max teammate, you see his data and you question yourself "how is he THAT fast true that corner, how does he do that"........ Checo can (sometimes) get the same laptimes out of the car, but only for a few laps, while Max (as in Mexico 2022) can drive 42 laps within 0,3sec of laptime........... sometimes Max drives 10 laps within 0,1sec of laptime........ mind blowing. Try running around your coffeetable within 0,1 sec........... 🤣
Max’s consistency is almost robotic. That natural ability as you say is a big reason for why he’s able to maintain a high performance ceiling compared to his teammates.
Don't forget also his F3 year. His two teammates never won a single race while Max won 10. With only one of them being able to score a podium while Max got 16.
Why can one driver extract so much more? Because the engineers have a symbiotic relationship with the number 1 driver, who provides the feedback necessary to push the development of the car to the highest level.
The gap to his teammate is naturally bigger with Max, due to his short corner, "on-the-nose" driving style that, while may be the optimum way to drive a car by practically abusing the laws of physics, is difficult to live with for almost anyone else.
its always the number 1 driver who gives the team the best way forward. Unfortunately for checo, Max's driving style is way tooo on knife edge for Checo to consistently drive on since the Red Bull is so in tune with Max's driving style
You've watched the Peter Windsor analysis, I see. ;-)
@@MrFloppyHare love Peter's insights. Must also point out that's I've been watching F1 for about 13 years now
Max’s driving style is a factor I forgot to take into account. And it’s difficult to replicate for the guy on the other side of the garage (be it Checo, Danny Ric, or whoever).
Yes. We can call this the Peter Windsor appreciation thread 😉
His insight is miles ahead of everyone else; he's doing the job of TV pundits better than they are.
It's not baseless speculation either. I've experienced what a pointy car feels like in Sim Racing, and while I obviously cannot reproduce what Max does, its possible to get a
taste of what he's doing behind the wheel. I can see how Peter arrived at his conclusion on how the best drivers rotate the car like that.. its actually ridiculous that everyone in F1 isn't talking about it. (Yet!)
"It's just Max being Max" - Helmut Marko...
Very true but Checo hasn't been there in P2 since Miami which is questionable. Ever since he called himself a "championship contender" it's gone down hill since then...probably too much pressure on himself.
a curious case is to examine the opening few races in 2022 when the red bull was overweight and had a balance more towards understeer. checo was very close to max in qualifying, indicating that when the balance of the car is relatively neutral, his performance ceiling is quite close to the car’s limit, this is probably why he shone in force india.
but when the balance of the car became more pointy (because a pointy car is inherently quicker as it can rotate better), checo didn’t have the natural talent that max has in terms of manipulating the rear end and keeping it in check. in spa, the team recommended him to use max’s setup but checo found it undriveable. max’s talent allows the team to use an optimal setup, though it is so extreme that most drivers can’t handle it. it was the same with schumacher in ferrari
Exactly. The 2022 example is perfect in this case. There was a point mid season where Checo was talking about how the development “going away from him” which implied the upgrades didn’t suit his style as well. Although they improved the car overall, if you can’t extract the most out of them, then there’s not much of an improvement.
Preach.
But when Checo was winning races at the beginning of 2023, both he and the team were lauding the fact that the car is quick with either setup preference.
It just sounds like another excuse for trying too hard. People are better than other people at stuff, it’s a fact. Checo has always been a bit of a journeyman, his inconsistency has been a trademark of his career. 🤷🏻♂️
I think the difference is very much driver related. F1 always has a balance between having the fastest setup up to the point the car becomes undrivable. Max does that but Alonso as well. Other drivers just can't handle that car in the same setup.
The second point is the pressure of being outclassed by your teammate all the time. Every F1 driver believes he is capable of winning the WDC. If your teammate just is faster that builds pressure and can cause you to overdrive and look bad.
I think this is the case with Checo
I see valid point made here. first off I am mere spectator and enthused fan, not in any way having much knowledge on car specifics or drivers techniques etc, but I read somewhere else that the driver styles of Max and Checo differ as much as night differs to day. From early childhood onwards Max has been trained, programmed perhaps, to take to full speed immediately, short corner on the nose style etc. It's like in his nature and muscle memory. Checo drives differently which is also in his nataure and muscle memory, and I heard that suggestions were made he'd adapt some of Max's characteristics into his own way of driving to get more from RB19, such as shorter corners. One could argue that this is perhaps an impossible thing to achieve in a short period of time and I think in that process he may have lost touch with valuable elements of his own style which contributes to bad results and in turn loss of confidence and more struggle.... is this making sense?
@SuperPassionflower it is true that the favourite driving style of both is different. Max likes the front more stable and manages a more instable rear, and Checo likes a stable rear and manages a front that likes to go straight in the corner.
In the same car, usually the stable front and more loose rear is faster, which is probably why Max's father learned Max to drive that way.
Last year, the Redbull had a very loose front end, and Max had to adapt quite much at the start of the year. That's when Checo looked to drive almost as fast as Max. During the year, they adjusted the car, making it possible to drive with a pointy front end. That's when Max went faster, and Checo claimed they developed the car away from him. In fact, they didn't develop the car away from Checo, they made it possible for Max to drive his favourite driving style.
This year, both driving styles are possible in the Redbull. That's what enabled Checo to have some great performances early in the year. Those performances also made him a title contender with additional pressure. I do believe that's what's bothering Checo. I think he is much better as he's able to show the last view races.
@@ruudkooijman819 thanks for further explaining, learnful for me and a day with nothing learned is a wasted day! does all this also relate to preference for over-steer (Max I am told) and under-steer (Checo I am told) ? Asking for a friend.. me haha. oh misschien wel een aardige: heb je de video van Driver61 channel gezien met de vraagstelling why is checo struggling in the RB. benieuwd naar je idee over de uitleg. ik vind het fascinerend
@@SuperPassionflower hmm, ik heb hem nog niet gezien maar zoek hem wel even op.
I agree with you both (I said a similar thing in my own comment). I hope this becomes more common knowledge now, so the grid can start getting a little closer together.
Max is in his Lewis faze right now he's at his best in the best car on the grid an unstoppable combo.
5:38 It feels to me like you are contradicting all your other points in this video here. You should see what Peter Windsor has to say about this. He says with the best drivers it is around 60% the car and 40% the driver, with worse drivers it is less than that 40% ,because they can not extract as much performance, but that also means a very big percentage of the car's performance is made that by the driver. Especially in Max's case he helps a lot to engineer the car to become faster.
Max is an allround champion,,, he knows the settings of the car, he speaks the language of the Mechanics, he has an head mechanic, that really know Mas, and does know that he never has to take Max' comments personal if it goes wrong.
All about Max, is about perfection. And Max knows his Mechanics, all about his car, all about his skills.. and even about the circuit and the circumstances... about the tyres, the pitstops. Max knows everything, there is to know.
And yes, his father Jos probably learned Max the most of it!
I would argue that the trend of Red Bull having unusually large teammate gaps isn't a Red Bull thing, it's a Newey thing. When Newey gets a lead driver he works well with, they shine, to the detriment of the second driver. Usually, the lead driver's gap over their teammate grows as they stay at the team longer.
This happened with Mansell taking a huge leap forward over Patrese in 1992; with Häkkinen taking a leap forward over Coulthard in 1998-1999; with Räikkönen taking a leap over Coulthard in 2002-2004 before making Montoya look average in 2005-2006; with Vettel taking a leap forward over Webber in 2011-2013; and with Verstappen taking a leap forward over Ricciardo in 2018, before making Gasly, Albon and Pérez look second-rate in 2019-2023.
Newey is the best since Colin Chapman at getting the maximum out of his star driver.
Great work as always, mate!
Max is a one in a hundred years talent. Checo isn't.
And beside Max being at RB quite a few years longer, I believe the quality of Max's feedback towards the engineers is way better than Checo's.
Max learned a lot about cars from his father.
Checo just doesn't have the capabilities Max has. Mental and mind included.
When Max is in the car you think he's cruising while doing all kinds of things on the wheel and he still has room in his mind for other things.
F1 first championship race was on 13 May 1950. I’m no math genius but 😂😂😂
@@Enzoblueblood He's referring to a quote from Lauda, who called Max the talent of the century after he saw him win in his first race for RB in Spain 2016. With the rate Max is going at now, he has all the opportunity to smash all the records and become a double digit WDC. I think it's pretty safe to say that, should he actually do such a thing, those records may well be safe for a century if not longer. He changed the game so much, no driver will be able to enter F1 as young as he was, when he was 17. The FIA actually changed the rules to prevent such a thing from happening.
@@EntropicExergy well, that clarifies. Kinda.
Thing is, if the fia changed the rules that prohibits any other 17-18yr old from driving in f1, that means Lauda has no reference to make a comparison, as far as we know, the talent of all time has yet to arrive in f1, and as brilliant Max’s win was, he wasn’t a novice at that stage and he did have the two merc boys to thank for that win
@@Enzoblueblood He was the first to get into it at that age, skipped F2 completely. If anything, he was the benchmark, as he still is today. If anything, Lauda was a three time WDC, in the very least that should tell you he has the knowledge and is qualified enough to state such a claim. As far as single seaters go, he only had a single year of F3 and single seaters and jumping straight into F1, you can very much consider him a novice. The merc was so OP, it was simply a cheat of a car. Generally speaking, except for an outlier of a track like Mexico or Brazil, merc would win anyway. In a way, lulu helped launch his own nemesis by crashing out Nico and himself that race, allowing Max to take that first win. History can be rather ironic that way.
@@EntropicExergy I’m sorry, I love talking f1 with anyone but once you start throwing names like Lulu or stuff like that I just can’t take you seriously.
I know who Lauda is. I remember him winning his 3rd title and I know his value to the sport; in fact, he’s one of my personal heroes in life, and I am familiar with his comments about Max but like anything in life, there’s perspective. Lauda has no other 17-18yr old to compare Max to because Max is the only one that was ever recruited to F1, so when Niki uses one of his famous hyperbole and mindful to put things into perspective.
Interesting. So the job for Helmut Marko is to find a driver that is 1 super consistent, 2 can drive with loads of front end grip. Why? Because that wins races. So, why is nobody as fast as Max? Because they have driving styles that do not win races, scraping off energy in the form of rubber from their front tyres.
I agree the only driver that has come close to max putting up good performances is checo. But reality is they’ll never match max’s skills.
Too quickly we forget how many "Great Drivers" came and went before Checo. Head to head with the best driver in a generation. Someday all time?
Bet the Farm says Honeybadger won't do better.
How many great drivers? Albon (not one of the greats)? Gasley (not one of the greats)? Ricciardo was the strongest teammate Max ever had, and he beat Max in 2 out of 3 seasons. Max has never been tested by a great driver as a teammate in his entire career.
@@pablokenzie47 Since Max wasn't in the RB in every race in 2016 that season does not count, making it 1 out of 2 seasons. Add to that, that in 2017 Max had way more DNF's and when those DNF's happened Max was ahead of Daniel a vast majority of times, you really can't say Daniel beat him. That unreliable Renault engine beat Max, not Daniel, but to see that one has to look at the actual facts. Just for your sake, i hope Daniel gets to replace Perez, whether that is after the summer break or starting next season. With that reliable Honda RBPT we will see who beats who in a straight up battle. I already know the smart money is on Max beating Daniel, again.
That last point is especially BS, since to become champion you don't just have to beat your teammate, but the entire grid. Max has done it twice already and is working on the third time. Heck, he even did it with a car that was lesser to the merc in 2021. Max had his big test that season and he passed with flying colours.
@@EntropicExergy The problem I have with Max fans is I have yet to meet one who is not delusional. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE, SkySports, F1 TV, BBC, and all the sports media outlets I came across, not to mention Mercs, Ferrari, and other drivers all confirmed RedBull had by FAR the most superior car all season in 2021 up until Brazil. In the last 4 races, Mercs had the upper hand. For you to spin the fantastically foolish narrative that RB was lesser than Merc for the first 18 races tells me all I need to know about your fictional reality. Have a nice day sir, I hope you get the medication you need to snap back into reality.
The fastest cars in F1 have always been tight in the nose and more open in the rear, good drivers know how to use that and know how to make sure the rear follows the rest of the car. If a driver (or team) can't handle that it's a safer option to design a car more to the rear, less errors from the drivers so more consistent in the race BUT..... not just as fast. So yes it is a combination of car design and driver. Schumacher knew how to (in almost every corner without making big mistakes) put the car in almost a drift and in that way make the rear turn with the corner (tight front and loose rear of the car). Alonso had to use some overpower in the renault to push the car through the corner while the front goes straigt to the point where he pointed it to (again tight front and loose rear). If the red-bull is also designed that way (Max likes a tight front) then Checko (and all other drivers of Red-Bull) has to live with the fact the car is not so comfortable in the rear.
Red Bull isn’t a dominant car Max is a phenomenal driver 🥳
It definitely was a dominant car at the start but after Canada it's clear that it ain't staying for long
No like Lewis and the Merc the combo is just right Dominant car Dominant driver
If you look at how Perez is doing, you wouldn't call it dominant at all, whereas Max is making it look uber dominant. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It is dominant compared to the entire field, but not as dominant as the merc was, which was seconds a lap faster than any other car. Merc tended to get near constant 1-2's, which RB isn't doing now. Max is so damn good; he is making that car look more dominant than it really is.
Not sure about that if you were to put Max in a Williams or Alfa Romeo do you really think he would win races?.
@@ForzaPolska06this didn’t age well
I never understood why RBR dropt Albon. Max is great, so was Jim Clark, Niki Lauda en Seb Vettel.
2:40 That Ferrari comment was brutal. True, but brutal.
Where Checo has become disappointing this year is because the redbull car is so so dominant. When Mercedes was in the same situation, for what felt like a decade, teammates had trouble matching Hamilton. The difference then, was the #2 driver could be counted on to be on the podium week after week.
DR is the most logical teamate in future, ticks nearly all the boxes and above all he knows he isnt coming to be a number 1. Likes of norris would want to challenge max and might end up the checo route. Yuki is still not ready imo, despite having a brilliant season.
Checo King Of Excuses
Look at the Adrian Newey interview, everything is clear there. Feedback! That is the difference.
Masterful and captivating … you make a compelling argument with meticulous attention to detail, as always. Sadly 😅 for cynics like myself, it’s hard to shake off what you described at the start of the video - a collusion in favour of Max 😂. Great video though … we’ll see you in the next one.
Oooooohhh, "we('ll see you)": how mysterious! 😯
@@MrFloppyHare mysterious indeed:)
Tsunoda is nowhere near ready for that seat. He wouldn't last half a season
The car is developed in a certain direction to suit Max's driving style. RB have alluded to this for some time. You can't blame Red bull for doing that given Max is simply the better driver, but the style isn't shared by many drivers so the second driver is likely to struggle.
The only driver that shared the similar style is probably Daniel Ricciardo as he likes an oversteering car which takes speed into a corner. This is why both of them were very evenly matched as team mates.
I wouldn't say that Ricciardo was evenly matched with Max. The many DNF's that Max had with that unreliable Renault engine might make it seem like that, but that matching was probably the case for the first half of a season or so they were together. Ricciardo ran away from RB at the end of 2018 for a reason, he probably realised that Max' potential would go way beyond his own ceiling. Ricciardo is a pretty good driver, but he never was called the talent of a century like Lauda called Max after he had won Spain 2016.
Any Motorsport driver/rider has his own preferential setting for cars/bike he will drive/ride. A 7 time-MotoGP World Champion, Rossi failed to ride Ducati (a bike is built on Stoner input) fast like what his predecessor did because his mechanic at the times failed to set up Ducati into Yamaha. So, what can we learn from this: even a great driver will struggle to drive a car fast if the car setup is long way off from his preferential setup liking. Let's see Max drives super biased udersteery car (away off from his drive input preference), how well he will be fare against a common great understeery car driver. Danny Ric failed at Maca stint because Maca was already max-out optimized to his setup liking. H/e, it is still long, long way off from his best setup liking hence why he doesn't have confident he used to have in RBR previously to turn and rotate the car fast in corner.
So well put. This is a true motorsport fan right here
Many F1 greats have commented on this fan idea being false. They say it may hold true for mediocre drivers but the best adapt their style to fit the car as needed.
@@ask.repeat true but it depends on how much the new driver is able to convince the team to to change the cars philosophy. If you'd ont remember, Max always wants his car to turn and in the past has complained many times when he didn't get the front downforce that he wanted. We'll never know how well Max can adapt to another car until he moves to a team that has a high understeery car. Unless he again convinces the team to change that philosophy too
Max beat Perez and the rest of the field easily in the first half of last year when the car was strongly understeering because of it being massively overweight. He already did what you claim he needs to, yet you still show up with the same nonsensical drivel. Just admit it, you hate Max and how he is the best F1 will ever have known by the time he retires. Contrary to what this guy below you states, you have no clue of F1 and it shows. Stick to your motoGP and leave F1 to the people who do get the game of F1.
Ah yeah it makes so much sense that checo was doing so great at the beginning of the season and then suddenly just forgot how to drive the car yess that makes so much sense
Idk I just hope Checo's bad luck will end.
As for DR we will have to see. Already rumors are saying he might be heading to AT first.
I don't think they will bother putting him in AT first, that team is purely meant to prep their junior academy drivers for the real thing at RB itself. If they plan to replace Perez with Daniel, they'll put him straight in the RB.
The only one who beat his teammate, Rosberg. But then he RAN AWAY!
Dont forget that Checo failed at McLaren as teammate of Lewis in, ehm, 2013 (thanks Google). Lasted for 1 season. Checo should accept he's no. 2 at RB.
He was teammates with Jenson Button, not Lewis.
Checo uncharacteristic crash in Monaco? Lmao
Remember Checo was on his way out of F1! Redbullcrap needed a journeyman driver!!
Max is just better that easy
Let me know when you find that car in which Max doesn't look like a legend compared to his teammate
How many great drivers did Max have as a teammate? Albon (not one of the greats)? Gasley (not one of the greats)? Ricciardo was the strongest teammate Max ever had, and he beat Max in 2 out of 3 seasons. Max has never been tested by a great driver as a teammate in his entire career.
Max was literally a teenager and ended RIC’s career
@@xSCHEF RIC ripped Max a new ass in 2015 and did it again in 2016 (Meanwhile the GOAT had the best rookie season in history in 2007 and became DWC in 2008) RIC left RB when he realized the team was firmly tucked up inside Max's asshole and has been ever since 2016. 2 - 1 to Ricciardo. Put Max in any other team and he will retire because he will get exposed. Without a car that is 22mph quicker than everyone else Max is nothing. Bottas could beat Max in the same car.
@@xSCHEF I already corrected this guy in another post, but you probably won't see it. Whatever the case, this post tells me he looks only at some stats on wikipedia, but never actually followed actual seasons. Max was ahead after only a couple of races together in the RB already, the unreliable Renault forcing him to DNF far too often for that to become apparent. There is a clear reason why, as you correctly state, Max forced him to run away from RB. Max was always going to be better and Ricciardo knew that too.
We can all agree that Max is extremely talented and is better than checo, but I can’t help but think about every little decision that can be made during a race that could affect one or the other, without being the main reason of this dominance don’t you think all those small call in a race could advantage max a bit.
And great work as always, your videos are always a pleasure to watch !
Alonso and Hamilton are excellent drivers but even with machinery to challenge Max I don't think they can do it... Since 2019 Max is the best driver on the grid!
i disagree. I think they can match and beat him
@user-xj2wg4wl7b thank you for looking like complete idiot
LEWIS WOULD DESTROY BULLY BOY
Damn YOU HUMANS forget that Danny Ric beat MADMAX 2 out of the 3 years they were together!! Come On Man
@@SwaggySimon20
Hamilton couldn't even beat Verstappen in 2021 when Hamilton had better machinery and plenty of luck throughout the season. Remember the red flag in Imola? If the incident between Bottas and Russell happened a lap later Hamilton wouldn't have scored any points. On the other hand Verstappen had all the bad luck, like Silverstone, Hungary and Baku. We don't need to talk about Abu Dhabi, those 7 points are insignificant to everything else that happened in the season that unfairly benefited Hamilton.
Verstappen won that season by being much more consistent than Hamilton and making far less errors. He was simply by a substantial margin the better driver. So no, Hamilton can not match Verstappen, that discussion was already settled in 2021 and confirmed again in 2022 when Verstappen showed what he can deliver from a car that was only the best car in the second half of the season. Compare that to Hamilton who had the best car 8 seasons straight and an absolutely dominant one in at least 5 seasons. Hamiltons at his best has never been as strong as Verstappen.
Dude, he's second in the championship..
And?
@@maazahmed2336doing good job mate, doing him and the team good for 2 seasons now. Talk is talk, but not that true or relevant in the end.
The car setup and psychology of the garage need to be considered. Remember Monte Carlo 2022? All that nastiness about the crash in qualifying that apparently spoiled Max's chance of a pol? Remember Max's mother said something really vile about Checo cheating on his wife? Maybe that was just the press stirring but I understood from it that Max wanted him out and what Max wants Max gets. I wonder if Red Bull treated him fairly. I think they have a down on him and want him out of his contract early. It's a very great shame.
There are pictures of Perez cheating on his wife after he stole that win from Max in that very same weekend. That weekend we saw the true face of Perez, a vile backstabbing little creature. You can bet your behind RB has treated him well, he just isn't good enough to beat Max. There is no logical reason for RB to treat him any different as they want to win constructors too and before a season starts you have no idea whether you need all the points from the second driver or not. And if Max gets what he wants, why did they sign Perez anyway? Max had suggested Hulkenberg as they are on friendly terms and Max likes hanging with the Hulk, yet it didn't happen. Your entire post is BS is the only possible conclusion here.
What is this nose-problem///???? BMPH.....????
Red Bull is bias towards Max, sim0ples.
I would like to see max driving a car which isn't designed according to his absolute preferences . The redbull since 2019 has always been a tailor-made outfit to fit max like a glove , seeing max drive a car which is made for checo's driving ability will clear any doubts
@@TheAcholi Very well said!
No one wants a car that doesn’t reflect their preferences.
A fake champion with costs cap issues 🤣😂
Me personally, no one will succeed at red Bull as a second driver. The car is set up 100% to max's liking and the other driver has to just deal with it
It cannot be a coincidence that every driver fails when they were competitive in lesser cars
There's been two times they gave checo equal machinery then got results then randomly dropped off
Which was when checo first joined and also at the start of this season gets a new contract then all of a sudden he's nowhere
I just don't think the drivers have equal chance to beat each other
Barrichello won races, against Schumacher
Rosberg and bottas won races against Lewis
Just think that is max's car and max's team and will always have 95% favouritism which makes it impossible for any driver to succeed at red Bull that isn't named Max verstappen
And it's obviously obvious the way max throws a tantrum every single time that it isn't 120% in his favour
Or Verstappen is just much faster than Albon, Gasly and Perez who are all pretty mid anyway.
No. Perez himself even said that he has the same car as Max
Everyone understand this, except the orange army
@@garythefishable people just cant handle the fact that Max is THAT much faster.
I cant remember the time people said Perez is a huge talent and future WDC, especially in his earlier career.
Difference with Norris, Russel, Leclerc is that they are spoken of as future WDC
🎯 Max is definitely the darling of Red Bull.
Fact if U aren't the Faviote Son at RedBullCrap that second seat is very Toxic! From Vettle/Webber& Danny Ric/Vettle&MADMAX/Danny Ric😬😬😬
Merc is far more toxic. The amount of times we heard "Valterri, it's James" is staggering. All when merc was dominant and many of those instances unnecessary. RB only issued such an order once in AD21. That's because Max is so much faster, they generally don't need to.
Redbull is a toxic team. Max can thrive in that sort of environment, not many other people can.
Wrong, that is merc for you, do stick the right name to the right team next time.
"The best drivers extract the performance from their cars" Not true. Early in the season when the car had good balance but didn't have as much oversteer as Max prefers, Checo was doing well and Max wasn't winning by 20+ secs. The reality is Max prefers a car that is extremely unstable but also performs at his best in that type of car. Redbull will always build a car suited to their #1 driver. You can't argue with the results and you cannot compare Max to his teammates for this reason.
If you know that oversteering cars are much faster than the understeering variety, you'd arrive at the opposite conclusion. Max still won far more races in that first half of last year than Perez while the car was very much an understeering one. He might not have won comfortably, but that is simply because of the fact i just told you, physics prevented him from doing so. But hey, a win is a win and Max adapted to still beat Perez in a car Perez preferred. Ever since the car lost weight and headed towards oversteer, Max started to win with larger gaps, just as physics tells us. In other words, Max did indeed extract the maximum performance of the car, that performance was simply limited with the ceiling being raised through in-season development. Thus your post is wrong.
Danny Ric beat Max in 2016 and 2017 so he is not unbeatable. Redbull don't want anybody in the car that can beat Max because Max and his dad can't handle it. Can you imagine if Max got to Redbull and he had to go up against an Alonso, a 2x world champ. That would have been the end of Max's story. I mean F1 and the FIA had to step in and stop Lewis from beating him. Max's has I lot more to prove
Well 2016 he started several races into the season, on race 4 if I recall and had more DNFs than Daniel. He had 7 DNFs in 2017 to Daniel's 6. But like he said in the video, it's much akin to Seb and Webber
@@Hellstorm616 Not to mention that when Max DNF'ed he generally was ahead of Daniel, meaning those DNF's cost him far more points. But don't think the Max haters care for facts, they never really paid attention to F1 anyway.
In points.. yes due to dnf's. Never lost at qualify any teammate.. Sainz was his main competitor..
Faster Qualify
Sainz vs verstappen 0.06%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11%
Gasly vs verstappen 0.45%
Albon vs verstappen 0.62%
Perez vs verstappen 0.46%
Faster Race wins
Sainz vs verstappen 54.5%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6%
Gasly vs verstappen 90%
Albon vs verstappen 88.9%
Perez vs verstappen 88.1%