4:28:34 Browntable: "He's a person just like us, this isn't a Peter Parker that knows a billionaire..." But he does, Tobey Spiderman knows Harry Osborne and Norman Osborne, most Spider-Man know rich guys lol
Maybe by « knows » he means « is intimate friends with » ? Guire’s Peter doesn’t have the same relationship with Osborn as… the last one (I forgot his name)’s Peter as with IM.
Iron Man is intentionally made to be a mentor figure to Tom Spider-Man, inspiring him to be a superhero. Tom Spiderman also used Iron Man tech instead of his own. Tobey Spider-Man and comic Spiderman did not have this type of relationship with any billionaire.
5:52:53 Still reeling a bit here from the argument "May has to be alive for it to be Spider-Man," how does that reconcile with Peter B. Parker in Spiderverse? His exact line is _"I buried Aunt May"_ which is said over a shot of Peter staring at her fucking headstone.
Believe me, the Spiderman Purist can just double down. Showed a friend of mine who's a lifelong fan of Spiderman Spiderverse, and he hated it for like a dozen different reasons.
It is usually because Aunt May is suppose to be his moral compass and one who he turns to when he is in a crisis. Uncle Ben created the foundation and Aunt May is the one helping to build the house. But Aunt May doesn't always need to be there. Hopefully he gets a wife who could replace Aunt May in the morals department.
Well in spiderverse Peter B. Parker is well past his youth and aunt may died of old age. I'm more annoyed this aunt May was killed to wash out uncle Ben for the responsibility speech which sorta becomes a bait n switch because that turns 3 movies and cameo part into a drawn out origin story flipped backwards.
@@omgazr0 That second sentence of your's was completely invalid, as it's nothing but subjective biases mixed with incorrect projection of intent. Please, if you're going to criticize this movie for all of it's massive flaws, then please do so genuinely and with some principled integrity.
*In Honor of Headmetwall, the Timestamp Guy - Don But Not Forgotten* "How Big Can an Owl Get?" - The Much-Anticipated EFAP Owl Discussion ft. Frongold: 1:30 "WooOOOAAAHH" - My Appearance in the Chat: 3:19 Betty White, RIP: 4:44 The Vote of the Dark Triad Commences: 8:00 Movie Robert has Won: 18:31 Start MovieBob NWH Take: 20:11 FilmRobert's Design Philosophy is Nihilism: 27:02 - HiTop Begin: 1:24:01 D R I P P I N G W I T H S T Y L E: 1:24:43 But First, A Word from Our Sponser! (Also the Mask Slips): 1:37:39 - I guess Browntable (Seriously, what kind of a name is that?): 3:52:44 GAMINGGG (The Chat pleas for Cosmonaut's take, their voices fall on deaf ears): 4:41:48
Man, it was a real tragedy when Alfred Molina died while filming during that runaway fusion reactor accident. The man saved both the film and thousands of lives. Kino.
I'm stuck with the bit where Marc Webb dunked Jamie Foxx into a tub full of electric eels and then killed the guy all for one movie. Should probably have been charged for that.
For you peeps saying you need timestamps, here you go. 00:00:00 - Intro, Betty White, Chat Votes for the 1st Video, "Muckbang" Videos (Fun Fact, I didn't know this existed and sadly that is no longer the case) 00:20:00 - Beginning of Moviebob Video 01:24:06 - Beginning of HiTop Video 03:51:40 - "I don't know if we can fit Browntable in, can we?" 03:52:45 - Beginning of Browntable Video 04:38:39 - End of Browntable Video, Beginning of Gaming and Superchats 06:19:56 - Dr. Skipper Dips Out
I've had a relization: Hi-top dosnt actually care about artistic vision. He thows in "to me" and "personally" in like every sentence He never actually talks about what they might be going for, and if they succeeded. He only ever talks about what HE WANTED to see, and complains he didnt get it. He's viewing every movie through his own feelings towards it. And then claiming that if he didnt like it then its cause they "lacked vision" when really its just a vision he dosnt like.
That's modern criticism for you, you're trying to avoid structuralism (using a solid framework to determine what the creator wanted to do and if they succeeded at doing it) because it gets in the way of talking about yourself.
That's literally HiTop's entire shtick... It's not about saying what's good and what's bad (even if that was possibly, it would be completely worthless), but rather about explaining and analysing what affects him personally. His reviews are even more explicitly from his perspective than the usual, and they usually deal with his personal emotional experiences and why they happened. You're the ones trying to be the arbiters of what criticism should be... Art is subjective and must be, in some ways, personal. Videos focusing solely on that extremely personal experience are worthy of some people's time, and, though they can be criticized, should be criticized from the understanding that they're not aiming to tell you "this is good and this is bad" but rather "this works FOR ME".
@@radiofloyd2359 You missed my point. Hi-Top himself always says he values the directors vision above all else when he clearly does not. One of my favorite youtubers is Jacob Geller, and his videos are a thousand times more subjective and all about his personal interpretation. Hi-top should just be honest and say its his opinion, but he dresses it up its poorly made or that the director has no style or message whatsoever.
@@MilkT0ast Oh god I love it whenever there's some geeky little creature or big gentle chungus thing like that monorail alien in Mando S3 and Fringy is just utterly delighted by it/them, not even doing anything. "Look attum gough, he's sough happy!" Also starting a topic by going "I guess the interesting thing is,"
I love how everyone's ragging on EFAP for mocking Browntable but not ragging on Browntable for saying, "Asking a woman to smile is sexual harassment." Hypocrisy at its finest.
@@SiddharthShenoy Don't forget his famous "I used to think relating to characters was more about personality than skin color until I heard Miles Morales speak Spanish"
Every time someone mentions Uncle Ben I get reminded of the SuperBestFriends (rip) bit of Uncle Ben whispering: "Kill them all, Peter!" before he dies.
Comics are a disaster for the Purist tastes. The more movies get made of a franchise, the less the individual differences in each variation can be described as a problem.
Hitop: Far From Home doesn’t have regular teens problem No Way Home: College problems cause the entire thing. Hitop: They’re regressing the stakes and it’s bad.
@renji0002 this is known. He has a clear bias towards the Sam Raimi films that he's not willing to acknowledge taints his perspective. He pretty much only wants a Spider-Man movie to be like the Sam Raimi films. As Jay pointed out, he may even say he's biased, proceed to get things wrong about the MCU Spider-Man movies, and then attempt to lampshade it under "that's just my opinion, bro."
@renji0002 if I may ask, why does Jay annoy you? He's probably one of my favorite guests in the podcasts. I think he brings a unique mindset to the group and he tends to have insights that the others don't.
@renji0002 as a person who hardly uses Twitter and tries to avoid it, his twitter can be obnoxious from what I've seen. That being said, it's not Smud boy level or anything. At worst I feel like it's just incompetent. I think his argumentation skills have come a long way since he joined EFAP. His stances during the Hasan, ah relevant, and Denims situation were airtight, as was his stance on hitop. He's also shown almost irritating levels of charitably towards people like that.
3:06:30 it really sounds like hi-top wanted Tobey and Andrew to be introduced right in the middle of an action scene, cause what is the problem with them talking to each other first and then going to the action part later ?
I won't say who it is because he seems like a decent guy and I don't want to be mean to him, but there is one RUclipsr who I just can't sit through because he constantly sounds like he's an anime character perpetually staring sorrowfully into the distance and imagining that time he went to a festival with his friends who have since died in battle. While I haven't had any major disagreements with his actual points and I am sure he's a nice guy, I simply can't listen to it for that long. Much as I don't like it, however, I would rather watch ten of his back-to-back than one of HiTop's, because HiTop tries SUPER hard to be an "artiste" (cue dramatic hand gesture) with his inflection, script, and tone, and it comes off as self-aggrandizing and obnoxious.
3:26:20 I don't think your mentor heroically sacrificing himself to save half the universe is a comparable loss to your uncle being unceremoniously murdered by a petty thug that you let go. It's a lot easier to come to terms with Tony's death when you can comfort yourself with knowing it saved half the universe.
It's kind of like the difference of having Johnathan Kent die of a heart attack in most Superman properties, to allow Clark to grow by seeing that despite his strength there are some people he's powerless to save... Versus Johnathan choosing to die in a tornado in a situation where Clark could have chosen to easily save him and every other person there, as some lesson about how sometimes you need to just let people die, because reasons lol?
I mean, dead is dead. Being heroically dead doesn't change the loss he feels, or the sense that he's not good enough to live up to his example. They are simply two different scenarios. I wouldn't say either is strictly better or worse.
I think that the death of the characters having close connection with peter is not the reason for his character development. Rather it is why they die that gives him character development.The reason of death of all those characters is that they die trying to do the righteous thing. Uncle ben in raimi movies dies trying to teach the thief to walk on the correct path and to rectify their mistakes. Harry dies trying to correct his previous misdeeds. In the webb movies uncle ben tries to stop the thief when he sees that the thief has a gun and realises that he is a dangerous person and while trying to seize the the gun, he dies. Gwen dies after peter asks him to stay away from the electricity grid as it was dangerous for her, but she still goes disregarding his warning because she wants to take her own decisions and she herself wants to help peter to bring back electricity to the town and defeat electro. She succeeded in doing what she wants but in doing so was attacked by green goblin and killed. So it is not necessarily the death of the characters that motivates him but it is rather their mindset, virtues, values and priorities which teaches him and strengthens his own moral compass, mindset and aspirations. They teach him that he has to do the righteous thing even if his own life and the life of the people he cares about are in danger. They teach him about self-sacrifice, virtue, righteousness,responsibility.
@@unpopularopinions7407 the whole point of Peter is that his life is shit but the dude keeps going. That's way more interesting than having his life always be good.
@@razorwing360 how so? I personally really like the idea of a character (and indeed a Peter Parker) who learns lessons and perspectives from people he loves, and follows his values to do what he believes is right. Maybe those values can be challenged in more interesting ways as he's exposed to opposing perspectives, and he can have more focus on the contemplation of those ideas, changing his approach as he gets a little bit wiser as he gains experience, maybe with opposing views even reinforcing his initial beliefs as he now has a greater perspective of the need of responsibility, etc. I would even say the need to kill off characters on dramatic fashion to try to achieve that sort of thing is almost cliche, I don't think there's anything wrong with it in a vacuum, but I don't think it's good to think that is the only way to have meaningful development.
@@libertyprime6932"Drip" only works when Razzle does it. Those guys can actually do zoomer irony well. "Slaps" works well when paired with "cheeks" and delivered in a monotone, semi-serious context without dwelling on it.
As usual, Theatrical Ruperto is the WinZip of RUclips content. You have to spend minutes replaying his lines, breaking down his often vague and imprecise adjectives and metaphors just to decipher his often superficial critique. My god, can you imagine taking a restaurant order from him?
"But before I MAKE my order I think we need to look into the sociological origins of the RAMIFICATIONS of the concept of a restaurant, being of course the ultimate concept of property as viewed through a lens wherein the producers of the product that is PRODUCED are overbearingly burdened with the condemnation of the joy that is, of course, readily apparent to anyone who approaches this concept from a standpoint of historical knowledge of the factors involved or how one came to accept the concept of "fries" in a "meal." This also relates to NINTENDO, who..."
@@CruelestChris Jesus, I just covered MovieBob on another podcast. Took several hours to wade through a bad, 7-minute video. It's verbal Chinese water torture, I swear!
@@destroyer1187 "This of course, to anyone familiar with feminist theory, is a typical alt-right dogwhistle wherein the juxtaposition (pronounced "JUCK-stupper-dition") of "food" and "service" reflects the societal obsession with the commodification of both the menial and the fantastical, such that the mere mention of serving food is used to silence critical discourse within certain select spaces where it would be most warranted, and of course desired in addition to that, which is a typical observation regarding the MCU and other comic-book-movies." (A trick to writing truly convincing Bob is you have to forget the subject of your own sentences near the end)
I was reading quickly so my brain registered this as: “Browntable Nemesis Parker” And I’m now imagining an RE Nemesis with the face of Browntable and the powers of Spider-Man repeating “sexual harassment” as he swings through the city, somebody do an art of that please.
@@Dragonage2ftw fun fact: if you’re confused because you don’t have context, it usually works to actually watch the EFAP instead of just going to the comments
It's easy to counter argue Hitop's videos. Just say the opposite of whatever he's saying. He has nothing to fall back on then, because like a student who only writes the answers to a math test, he has no process for how he got to his answer. So he cant prove or disprove anything.
@@BilboniousBagODonuts He saw this coming and has already assembled the Perv Squad including X-Ray Gurl, The Nerdaholic, and the Astounding Dilk Duggler!
There wasn't really anything to cover since he spoke a lot of words without saying anything, they spend more time critizing his video style than anything he actually said
I mean, to be fair, that was a really low level Cinema Robert video with the worst things being the run-on word-salad sentences that you have to rephrase in your head to make sense of. No casual psychopathy and mentions of eugenics in this one to be stunlocked by in this one.
The fact that the dumbass references One More Day in a positive light in any mention on how Spider-Man should be done is hilarious. Probably the most infamous story out of his entire history. Hell, one of the main reasons people hate it is because of the reasoning behind it, where Marvel didn't like the idea of Peter being happy, mature and in a stable marriage. So they decided to retcon him back into a tired status quo.
I’m pretty sure the head writer of that story was going through his divorce when writing OMD, the storytelling of that crap comic shows with how it went out of it’s way for the deal to happen especially with making Peter choose his Aunt who at best had several more years left had she survived over his wife and unborn daughter: Mayday Parker.
It's like people don't want there characters to actually evolve or grow. Peter marrying MJ and eventually becoming a father was a natural state for his character to go.
@@RogueFox2185 Is it…. actually “Mayday Parker”?! Like that’s her name xD Apologies to anyone who actually had that name but I guess I just find it funny
The "in my opinion" card came back with a friggin vengeance in the hitop video. How many times did he have to say "to me" at the end of his claims cause you know if he got called out he'd have a bad time trying to justify his bold claims.
HiTop needed with great power comes great responsibility in exact words. Completely missed Tony, his mentor's, final message to him when leaving EDITH being "heavy lies the head that wears the crown." It means the exact same thing.
The actual uncle ben quote is with great power must come great responsibility. And I’d say their different Tony had no powers iron man was the suit. Peter can’t stop being Spider-Man unless he gets rid of a change to his genetics.
@@mr.j7444 That's kind of irrelevant to the point of the message though, and even then Tony had power. Wasn't a super power but he was a multibillionaire military contractor bankrolling and leading the Avengers. Also Uncle Ben didn't have super powers either.
It also needed to be explicitly said on screen, preferably while Peter’s watching a parental figure die. It can’t just be heavily implied that Peter already heard those words before his introduction in Civil War. “When you can do the things that I can do, but you don’t and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you,” Does HiTop think Peter was just quoting his last fortune cookie?
Hi-top got one big vein on his forehead when during the credits of Spider-Man homecoming it said "no Uncle Ben's were harmed during the making of this film."
The whole point of Uncle Ben dying isn’t the act itself but more what it represents regarding Peter. This conversation has many iterations but the most common one is moments before Peter goes to an underground wrestling match to win a cash prize. Lying to May and Ben by saying he’s going to study at the library. Whether it be a conversation instigated by Ben in the Rami trilogy or Peter asking Ben if he should use his new powers to better his own situation in Spectacular, Ben uses that line. “With great power comes great responsibility”. It’s his way of saying that just because you have the ability to do something it shouldn’t give you the right to do it. In lying and taking the match Peter abuses his powers for monetary gain and then neglects using them after he was conned and a robber stole the money he thought was rightfully his. When confronted with this he repeats the sentence he was told by the spokesperson that didn’t pay him the money he was promised “it’s not my problem” And with that selfish need to get even with someone that same robber stole a car and shot a man dead. That man being Ben Parker. Once he realised this he made it his mission to ensure that no other person will become like his Uncle. No good man will be gunned down for a car or for money while he has the ability to stop it even if it affects his own life because “with great power comes great responsibility”. That’s why Uncle Ben’s death affects him more than it should because he’s indirectly responsible for it. He had a chance to stop that man while he was running down the hall with the money but he didn’t because he felt robbed and decided to make the man that wronged him feel the same way and in that selfish act the city lost one more good man among the dozens of bad ones and he lost the closest thing he had to a father. It’s not that I don’t get what y’all are saying but please don’t ridicule the argument that Uncle Ben has value to the story of Spider-Man because he does. It’s not an opinion it’s a fact that’s in the comics these films are based off. Also in regards to what “peak Spider-Man” is along with you guys, Rags especially being borderline condescending towards Browntable’s remarks towards Peter suffering despite the fact that he could’ve worded things better is that Peter is supposed to have complications in his life. If Pete had a good life with no hardships or dead friends and family especially when he puts the mask on it wouldn’t be compelling because aside from the web slinging and bad guy fighting the stuff that people come to see regarding Spider-Man is how it affects Peter’s life. Let’s take Spectacular for example. In the third episode of that he cures Dr Conners with a gene cleanser but takes a picture of the fight to win money to pay his aunt’s bills. In doing so he’s fired from his internship and is seen as a scumbag by his closest friends. Because of that he starts to reach a breaking point. Taking another vial of gene cleanser in order to cure himself of powers he got by chance. A mistake that is dismantling his life that he can rectify just by drinking the cleanser. It’s only once he’s reminded as to why he does this via a picture of his uncle that he starts weighing the pros. He saved Conners and the doctor’s son doesn’t live fatherless like Peter himself. So he decides to keep the gene cleanser but doesn’t use it until later in the show. You see what I mean? Spider-Man has an actual affect on Peter’s life and because of that he has a tough time with other commitments like a date or rent because he has to stop Electro or Doc Ock from hurting people. Stan Lee wanted the comics to be about a relatable character. It’s why he’s commonly a nerd with financial issues and a family that can hardly support themselves let alone him and it’s why he’s still bullied despite having the ability to punch said bully all over. Because the character of Peter is written to be more relatable than his web slinging persona in the comics. It’s why many people have a problem with Tony Stark essentially rewarding him stuff like a new suit or state of the art technology. Because Peter as a character in the comics has always been someone who’s down on his luck while Spider-Man is a cherished icon in the city that is also ridiculed by a news bulletin that Peter unfortunately has to supply pictures for. Again another thing that affects him personally. Having to assist in this smear campaign against himself for doing a good deed because he doesn’t have the money to say no and the bulletin are the only people that will pay him after all his other job opportunities have failed. That’s the Spider-Man people are after. And while I like Tom Holland as Spider-Man I will admit that I get where these people are coming from as a die hard Spidey fan myself.
@@dragonknightleader1 indeed, usually I like Efap but dear lord this was just painful to watch for me. Especially Rags’ comments regarding Uncle Ben as well as how the Spider-Man persona is affecting Peter’s life drastically. I know that he comes across as a dick most of the time. It’s his charm and humour so it’s understandable but he’s going really at it at these two for pointing out something that should be obvious for Spider-Man fans. Mostly his comment about how he doesn’t care about the traditional Spider-Man seems to peeve me the most for some reason.
@@Red-zh7vq But what if we had a story where we did? Wouldn't it be meaningful to explore how he, or the story, could be different due to him learning "uncle Ben's" lessons another way. How about if he doesn't even learn them at all?
I'm not sure what all you can see looking into an Owl's ear, but it's noteworthy that one of their ears is a great deal larger than the other, the difference in hole sizes allowing the owl to better gauge the distance, direction, and elevation of potential noises and thus prey. They can of course rotate their head three quarters of the way around, or two hundred and seventy degrees. But I think their most impressive feature is the textured down of their feathers that allows them to glide silently. This all of course while being that combination killing machine and adorable that humans just love. Fringy is right, Owls are great. Especially the Great Horned Owl. The largest Owl is the Blakiston Fish Owl, with a wingspan of 6 feet - nearly 2 meters!
That’s super cool, you learn new things every day. I wonder why owls look so different to other birds of prey as well, like eagles and hawks? I know that generally birds have protruding hooked beaks, whilst owls have flat faces with smaller, sloped beaks. Interesting stuff
@@peterbarlow5709 their face is like a radar dish that works in tangent with their asymmetrical ears to better locate their prey in complete darkness if need be. Blakiston's fish owl is tied with the Eurasian eagle-owl for being the heaviest (10.1 lbs), and both can have a wingspan up to 6'7". The great grey owl is the longest overall at 33 inches, but doesn't weigh nearly as much as the previous two owls mentioned. As with most birds of prey, females are bigger. Also, not all owls are nocturnal, and not all owls have silent flight (like fish owls). And as cool as turning their heads 180 is, technically lots of birds can do that, it's just more noticeable in owls due to their build.
I really wonder sometimes why the most specialzied, actually totally leathal and fearsome predators...do look the cutest to us? I get it that they usually have the eyes forward to hunt which appeals to us, but look at Cats (small and big breeds), Otters, Owls, or Icebears...those can´t be more deadly to their prey if they tried to...imagine beeing a mouse and facing a Cat...but they are SO CUTE!
@@peterbarlow5709 because they're nocturnal. All those other raptor adaptations are for daylight hunting. Owls are the sole nocturnal bird predator, they own the night and thus have less prey competition. It should also be noted the other nocturnal flying predator, bats, are not birds, they're mammals. Bats are far closer related to us, humans, than birds. On that note, bats are why we have butterflies. In the distant past, all we had were nocturnal moths, colorless. Bats became so good at hunting moths at night, some adapted to escape bats by becoming diurnal, and with daylight color became a thing. Now we have colorful diurnal moths we call butterflies that are safe from bats.
HiTop genuinely annoys me more than Movie-Jabba the BobHutt. His stuff is like fussily-edited TikkyTokky videos with bigger budgets, better equipment and 500 lbs of misplaced self-regard. It all screams "I scored 5th in the local film-festival's junior film-makers category, which only had 200 entries". And that film festival was so ghetto it had Movie Bob as the guest-speaker. Meanwhile HiTop sees himself as the Prince of Slamdance.
I like to see a character overcome their suffering and develop as a character but some of these guys just go into a movie or game like relishing in the torment of someone they supposedly like.
When Civil war introduced Spiderman to the MCU and later in Homecoming, it was clear that the character was constructed to be different from Tobey's and Andrew's version. I don't know where this false hyperbolic non-sense started that Tom's spiderman is helpless without Tony or Strange, and that he isn't or wasn't "a real spiderman" because no one was fridged to motivate him...yet.
I just love that HiTop lists Spider-man 2 as his favorite Spider-man film, waxes poetic about Raimi villains being in NWH, and then pronounces Alfred Molina’s last name “mill-ee-noh” 🙄
I think when people say that MCU Spider-Man needs actual struggles, it actually means daily life problems rather than extreme traumatic incidents. Not saying that tragedy should never happen, but I believe the character is at his best when he’s dealing with normal everyday problems alongside his superhero shenanigans. You don’t have to turn Peter Parker into Guts from Berserk to do that.
Well it doesn’t feel like Peter actually struggles in The Tom Holland portrayal as much because of his access to other characters. I’m not against this version of Peter as I like the concept and have mixed feelings about the execution but the fact that a lot of his choices aren’t so responsible after he becomes Spider-Man, in Homecoming, & Far From Home since they’re based on what matters to him or what he’s interested in, or the fact that help for him is a lot easier then Tobey’s version or Andrew’s version when they’re is in a tight spot honestly can make it understandable why Tom’s Spidey is a bit controversial. His little accuracy to the source material is also the icing on the cake. Like I don’t mind the distinct additions they made for him in this version but did they really need to cut off most of the previous material to make him feel unique? Why not blend both?
You’ve put into words what I’ve been thinking for a while now. Peter’s “struggles” are best displayed in Raimi’s Spider-Man 2: He saves some kids as Spider-Man, but loses his job because he was late to deliver pizzas. He stops a high-speed chase, but doesn’t make it to MJs play (also because of a douche-y usher, but that’s not the only factor). It’s not that he has to experience trauma to be the best Spider-Man, but being Spider-Man always tends to interfere with his personal life in some way. The best example of this in MCU’s Spider-Man, I believe, is him missing out on a relationship with Liz because he chose to do the right thing to bring The Vulture down or when he chooses to tail the Stark tech truck and missing out on the science competition as a result. We don’t need a character death every movie, we just need to see him trying to balance being Peter and being Spider-Man.
God Dixon That line caused me to spit my drink out. No. That isn’t Spider Man. Because Peter clearly was acting on wanting revenge and hence it took Tobey Parker to snap him out of it. Specifically him being stabbed. So BrownTable got that wrong. Bright side; his video essay was the least terrible out of the two others.
@@Avarn388 I think he meant the idea of him *wanting* to kill but choosing not to is "Spider-Man" but that's also wrong; still an interesting take on the character though.
I mean, in the comics, Spider-Man wants to kill Goblin when Goblin killed Gwen. The best thing about Spider-Man is he's a normal human being with real emotions. Of course he wanted to kill the person who killed his loved ones, but he choose not to. In Spider-Man 1, he wanted to kill the thief who killed Ben.
Ash Ketchum: Development is for nerds, look at me, I’m forever 10 and people love me, and I barely change at all Mario: I agree Sonic: I change, then safely go back to my classic basics all the time, and people love me all the same. Mickey, Donald and Goofy: We’re here too. Just as innocent and beloved on our own, separated from the corporation that owns us DC: We retcon all the time, multiverse is the ultimate power. Every time we fail, reset, start from the beginning
@@zogwort1522 Oh, didn't know that was a meme for reddit, I just used it as a way to make it easier to understand the point I was making, and that the characters I listed do in fact get away with not changing and remaining as they are next to those that do change, and are complimented for it, while their are those that don't and yet are complimented regardless simply because their content lives on
@@stigmaoftherose Appreciate the context, I just thought he said it wrong to be silly at the start of an episode or something. I never meant it like a callout or anything
"To quote Andrew Garfield's always gut-punching, vulnerable Peter Parker, they can stop Tom's Peter from ending up like them." What I did, here, is a quote. What you said, dear boy, is not a quote. To quote Captain Falcon Samuel America, "Do better."
well the idea behind it is that some people want to know what a person thinks of a movie and then decide whether or not they want to see it themselves, and if they decide they want to see it, they dont want to have been spoiled because they watched the review. in practice, "spoiler-free reviews" end up just being ways to put out another video without having to substantiate anything that you say in it
i prefer them, i can judge whether or not i want to waste my time with a movie or show if the reviewer is one whose opinion is usually similar to mine or multiple non-spoiler reviewers are giving the same vibes.
@@yinnyonline they should just go see the movie regardless. People have become so obsessed with others opinions they don’t form their own. You should go see something because YOU might think it’s good, not cause a hack youtuber wrote a shitty 15 minute video essay saying it’s good or bad.
@@alosim1541 most people dont want to leave their house and spend 2 hours watching a movie just because they think it MIGHT be good. they want to be more certain than that
@@yinnyonline What if the movie is on Netflix or even a free service like Tubi or something that doesn’t require you to leave your house/sit through the entire movie? I totally understand y’all’s stance on the matter. I used to feel the same way. Then I saw a movie I thought I’d hate based off the opinion of a critic/reviewer I liked and actually loved it.
The argument that Peter regresses as a character by having the iron spider suit in infinity war is so dumb. Tony activated the suit, Peter had no actually choice to accept or deny it.
On the adpocalypse, the advertisers would not leave RUclips permanently if RUclips fought back against the advertisers. The advertisers themselves would be losing out on money by not putting their ads on such a massive platform. Some advertisers would leave, but others would be clamoring to buy up that empty space and won't give a shit if someone talks about how they don't think climate change is man made or something.
I want to see Brown Table make a video about how Miles Morales is not a Spider-Man because he has far less tragity and much more help. Because of the crowd he caters to he would be crucified. He has layed a dangerous trap for himself.
@@grimlord3181 Oh, pedantry. Well if you are going to miss the point I suppose I should address what you said regardless and not hold it against you. So they are different people you say? Every alternate continuity person is equally or more different to a person living in the same continuity as anyone else in that same continuity. All the way down to a sub-molecular level.
He isn’t Spider-Man, he’s miles morales Spider-Man, he isn’t Peter Parker Spider-Man because he’s a fundamentally different character with a different set of circumstances. Miles is the perfect example of they didn’t just throw out key parts of the thing and instead made their own with the circumstances they wanted
@@Abysalss This argument has already been proposed but the last proposer ran from the question. Is it not true that anyone from an alternate universe is at least as different from each other, down to the sub-molecular level, as anyone within that universe those? Its a yes or no answer. If yes (and the answer is yes), then the argument about multiple interpretations of Parker being different creating a problem are voided. We need now only concern ourselves with if the new thing is good. If no then we are going to have to have a talk about what you think a universe even is, because I sure am getting tired of people appealing to physics without mentioning or even realizing that is what they are doing and then backing out without telling me how they even think multiple universes even work. You are the one who brought up this argument so don't ignore it.
@@reaemishi2278 no because this doesn’t have to appeal to your weird “well it’s another universe so they’re molecularly different so I can just abandon what makes a character that character and still use their imagery and good will to support my completely different story and setup I wish to sell.
4:01:40 It's OK Fringy, we've ready established Rags has terrible taste in fashion, because he thinks the mere idea of wearing any shirt with any blazer is somehow 'horrible' Salmon pink hoodies are absolutely fine!
Only hi-top can claim a movie is "visually textureless, aesthetically lifeless" and that the "visual styling gets in the way of the story" side by side, with the only thing between the two statements being a comma. Choose one, please.
HiTop has some pretty bad reasons for not liking MCU Spider-Man, but you know what would be a truly embarrassing take to have, is if you didn't like Homecoming because Peter cries in it. I wonder if such a person exists.
So, the "Full intent to kill" thing kinda IS so Spider-man. In both the comics and the movies, Peter's been known to flip out and get murderously angry when he's aggrieved. In one run he rips Norman Osborn's face off with his sticky fingers after Gobbie causes Gwen's death. In Raimi 1, he's totally about to murder Sandman's partner before he has a change of heart. Then in 3 you get a glimpse at what that looks like with less restraint, memes aside ("killing" sandman, "little goblin junior"). TASM admits to purposely hurting criminals after Gwen died in No Way Home. It's a pattern, is all I'm saying.
Heck, Peter wanting to kill someone is based in the most recognizable and often cited appeal of Spiderman, that he's a normal dude with a good heart. He's not Captain America; he makes mistakes, he falls down, he fails. But he always tries to do the good thing in the end. Like in Spiderverse, "Spiderman always gets back up" is a reoccurring theme throughout the movie.
This is true, I always think about in Maximum Carnage when he gets obliterated by Carnage and the other villains, MJ gets mad at him, other heroes die or give up, and then the citizens of New York start attacking him, and he basically completely loses his shit, throwing cars around and pretty much deciding to murder carnage, though I don't think he does. His snap was so well earned, it was nice to see him rage out.
@@Birthday888 it's funny that you compare him to Cap, because Jameson actually confronts him about that in the comics. Spiderman basically lies to Venom so he can capture both Venom and Carnage, and Jameson says something like "Captain America would've found a solution without lying, he was honorable" and Spiderman says "Cap was a legend! I'm just a man. And men have to live with their mistakes."
Actually he didn’t even have a change of heart in raimi 1, he broke his arm and then he just happened to fall out the window a few seconds later. I’m actually curious at would’ve happened if he hadn’t fallen out of the window lol
Have an objectively happy new year guys. These long streams really help me go through the long night working hours. Keep the good work through 2022 and let's hope for some good films and games in '22
Didn't Browntable talk about in his Justice League video that he learned there is more ways to make a super hero movie and as long you are true to your vision, you are good? Now it is "It is fine to change your vision last minute, as long as you do that one correct take on Spiderman"
People forget that the basic sitcom 3 camera setup with flat studio lighting had to be invented, for it's specific storytelling capabilities, by an avant garde experimental filmmaker.
I always used to think that Batman or Superman fans were the worst because they always get their panties in a bunch when any other character can a get a little edge on their perfect boy characters, but it might actually be Spiderman fans if they have to insist on Peter's life always being an unmitigated living hell in order for him to be valid.
LOTR, Frodo telling Sam to go home after "eating the bread", Frodo's side was a reshoot filmed a full year after Sam's shot. In The Incredibles, all of Bob's lines were recorded more than a year before the actor for Syndrome was even cast. 1/10 fake content.
Im not gonna argue what defines a spider-man or what is supposed to happen in a Spider-man story, but him losing someone close to him in No Way Home just made the movie hit harder compared to Homecumming and Far From Good. There's a clear difference in tone in NWH (and Spiderverse) vs HC/FFH. I think we just preferred the NWH and Spiderverse tone vs the HC/FFH Tone.
@@ShadowMan64572The tone in HC and FFH just felt way too lighthearted. It's not about wanting to see Spider-Man suffer, but to see him keep going in spite of his suffering. The RuBbLe scene in HC is often used as an example but damn it did not work for me.
I completely disagree in Homecoming and Far From Home there are definitely steaks. If you really look deep into the origins of Spider Man. The original Stan Lee era of comics was a lot more sitcom like. Theres a channel called Implicitly Pretentious and he made a whole video about it.
The jokes about multiversal uncle Ben getting massacred is so much funnier now that spiderverse 2 is out. Is hitop the real villain of the spiderverse movies?
Wait, 1:01:36 Doctor Strange wasn't the Sorcerer Supreme. The other guy was. Strange clearly says so in the move because he got blipped, the other guy got the Supreme role. Movie Roberto can't even get facts straight about the movie he's reviewing.
Its the same vapid shit the art kids at my university say. It's all a way to cover up their subjective takes with flowery language to make themselves sound cultured
2:32:47 is this weird example of "c'mon everyone, you know what Fringy meant. He was being hyperbolic." This idea contradicts almost every previous EFAP where they are picking apart every word some other creator says. Either be concise and measured or be a hyperbolic water brain. Don't expect everyone to hold you to a different standard than you hold to the creators you review. 8mins later...... 2:40:38 yep. My thoughts exactly. Thanks Rags
EFAP is nothing if not hypocritical. Fringy criticises lack of conciseness while sitting in a call with Mau "Lemme repeat myself 17 times with clips" Ler
So just take whatever a whiny petulant 5 year old would say about the topic, give it to a random college freshman to spruce it up, and bam you have a hitop script
The point of 'RUclips loses money' is that Google clearly doesn't care about YT's profitability, so any appeal to such is a non sequitur. RUclips's real value is in its social influence, so naturally that's more influential to their decisions.
Used to actually like a lot of HiTop’s stuff, mainly because I’m a huge Raimi Spider-Man fan and a fan of TASM1 because that movie I feel doesn’t get enough credit, especially since it’s associated with canceling Spider-Man 4 and and being followed up with TASM2. Not saying it’s perfect, but still, I liked how HiTops pointed out the themes in that movie and how great the characters were. But the guy is incredibly contradictory and over exaggerates how “bad” a movie is. Namely Far From Home. As for the comments about him using social issues or whatever the fuck to make himself seem down to earth, I can’t agree more, considering I remember that during the Summer riots of 2020, when they first happened, he made a statement on RUclips saying “I will not be releasing a video I’ve made cause I don’t want to detract from the importance of BLM” as if he’s somehow important enough to derail the attention of that shitty movement lol
36:01 To be fair I'm pretty sure this is his actual accent. He just used to hide it more. I remember Yahtzee Croshaw mentioning a few years ago that outside of his videos he does speak with a thick accent.
Browntable for next MCU Spiderman villain. A deranged fan who attempts to murder Peter's loved ones because "He needs to experience growth and consequences."
Spider-verse did Peter’s suffering really well. He suffered from something that can happen to *EVERYONE* like going bankrupt from bad investment, losing Aunt May due to natural causes, getting a divorce with MJ because he’s too scared to have a baby and getting fat due to his depression. And after that, he *GREW* . He learned to take risk again thanks to his experience with a youngblood like Miles. The essence of Spider-Man doesn’t have to be Peter succumbing to all kinds of tragedy, death and destruction. It could be small, realistic internal conflict like this. Having the villains keep winning while Peter keep losing for the sake of being “suffer” doesn’t help in his character development at all. Plus, I feel like Peter having to live up to the motto “With great power, comes great responsibility” is so out of place in the MCU because there are so many heroes who have even greater power than Peter but lack responsibility everywhere, like Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, Sam Wilson or Black Panther, and all of them got to walk scot free.
@@tevenpowell8023 the point is that that message would only apply to Peter but not to the others unfairly. It’s the fact that Peter has learned it but the others who should’ve learned it didn’t.
@@ColorlessRonin wouldnt a better point then be that they should have them interact with Spider-Man at some point so he can show them something he has already learned?
Wait, in this video you guys criticize MJ's character in the Raimi films, yet in your response to Cosmonaut you argued his point even though he criticized her for the same reason. =/
I love Mauler but I disagree with the fact that Tobey’s spider-man “summarizing” Harry’s literal sacrifice with just a “He tried to kill me and he died in my arms” or something like that, he could’ve said “He sacrificed his life for me” less amount of words and more in character for him. Y’know damn well the only reason they did that was so they could make that joke with ned later. Not so objective of you guys.
"You see I do not think no way home was the plan for MCU Spider-man from his first appearance in Civil War, and I think people should stop acting like it is." - This is a blatant Red Herring arguement, as no one is actually claiming that. In fact any of us that are paying attention know that Kevin Feige stated that he will **start** planning out the MCU **after** Multiverse of Madness, due to all the issues arising from the continuity conflicts. That up until now he had been leaving it to the directors and showrunners. This is why I have been adamant that he be replaced ASAP before the MCU is as dead as Star Wars.
Feige never said none of that.... Also if you read the writters of Home Trilogy interview on The Warp.Thry always knew what the character arc was going to be. After seeing two spiderman franchise with their origins in just a small amount of time they couldn't do that agsin so soon in MCU. So the trick was to make it look like they skip the origin and surprise the audience with his 3rd movie as an origin.His first and second movie were about learning the ropes of beinh s superhero. The Home trilogy was meant to be an origin trilogy.
The only people who can't except that a trilogy can be planned out are the ones who hated the previous movies. You feel like Marvel made you look stupid with their plan and you don't want to admit it.
HiTop, Browntable and Cinema Roberto. With their powers combined, they summon Captain Video Essay! Can they defeat the evil forces of EFAP? Find out in next episode "Captain Video Essay gets kicked in the nuts"
4:37:45 I seriously never got how people actually give a shit about fictional characters ages. It is, quite literally, just a number if the character flat out doesn't exist. The issue with peds isn't that it's screwing a body that's not been alive long enough for the earth to rotate 6574/6575 times around it's axis, the issue is it's screwing over a kid who isn't mentally fit for that sort of shit and can't give consent. Drawn characters 1 : aren't mentally anything and 2 : don't need to give consent anymore than your fleshlight does; they don't fucking exist. It's just so fucking weird to me hearing people actually bitch about a fictional character's age. If it's a real kid actually suffering that's one *thing, but when the person flat out doesn't fucking exist it's kinda fuckin different. Somehow I don't think this mentality holds for anything else like murder, torture, etc. "Police, come quick!" "why, what happened" "someone killed my imaginary friend after torturing him!" " **_*what_* ... you're aware wasting police time is a crime right" "what do you mean?" "I don't get paid enough for this" *to be extra clear here, my verbiage is not at all to downplay the harm that actually causes, it is genuinely shit and shouldn't happen at all (although, as with all things, a shit thing happening is not necessarily a justification for anything else. Extremely commonly people abuse the pathos of CSAM to push anti-privacy laws, anti-freespeech/obscenity laws, etc. Shit things can happen without necessitating action to prevent them in the future if the cost for that resolving action is greater than the cost of not taking it) but the person being hurt **_*existing_* is sort of a binary toggle for give-a-fuckery. I don't care that however many billions of people were killed by the deathstar, because they don't exist. On the other hand break a single person's arm and I'm going to care quite a bit. The existence of the person being hurt is a prerequisite to it mattering.
3:33:18 I acutlly agree with Hitop here, the way Tobey's peter described it felt off and not the way he would describe someone he considered a dear friend
5:29:30 ayy its my super chat I absolutely get the points towards HiTop as emotional manipulation is a scummy tactic, but the points BTC made in 150-3 was some of the most headache inducing arguments I ever heard. Like, I know its cringe to use this term but it has to be said, the dude was just gatekeeping his select hero's he didn't want changed and made exceptions only to the really special ones (i.e. Joker) I swear, these doofs always reveal their hypocritic side whenever Spider-Man/Batman is involved. Good episode btw. Happy new year
Agreed, it’s so weird to have people on earth that completely lack self awareness and separation from their own standards. Hitop deserves a platform to speak from and nobody should ever try to take that away from him, because I really do think he has the capacity to be good, but he’s so inconsistent that it makes him difficult to trust, and that’s a shame. (Btw I don’t know if hypocritic is a word or not, I think hypocritical is the full word lol)
food of thought, Tom Holland still would have lost Aunt May, regardless if she was in the hospital, or no. she would forgotten everything about him, and as we saw she would have kept happy in her life, at least for the duration of her recovery, while peter watches from a distance, kinda like MJ and ned are taking care of each other after they forgot about Peter. and is not the Peter feel like he is not needed or loved, but that he learn from the other, that mistakes happen, and sometimes those mistakes hurt those around you. he want to protect them and care for them, and if he is to continue being Spiderman, not involving them is the safest route.
Darkwin That’s why I love the ending because it really emphasizes just how much sacrifice Peter has gone to make sure his loved ones are safe. It also reinforces the idea that Peter has finally learned to stand on his own two feet. Seeing other takes of himself and in a world without the Avengers, his idols are gone. And the decisions he makes are all on him. Thus he keeps shouldering on to keep up the fight against evil. If that isn’t heroic, I don’t know what is.
@@Avarn388 i dont have my hopes up, im actually affraid they are going to ruin him and ruin Doctor strange in some way. and i have prove to believe it. starting with Strange, by Wong saying "he is forgetting a lot lately" it remindme what they did to sherlock in elementary "been distracted and forgetfull latelt" boom brain cancer... which is not ruining the character, dont take me wrong, i believe he is going to be in a situation, when everyone is going to see him lose or die, and then "he forgot he could have used this spell and win" and i already hated and it just a expeculation. For peter, im hoping to see what they have planned, if they do him correctly, he will try to overcorrect mistakes before on the next movie, which, mean he probably going to be more aggresive, or too absorbed in the situation to look out for help when he could have made it easier by just asking for help, he did learn, but he still learning and that can bring him to not be the best he could. if they do him incorrectly, i would expect something like being a side character on his movie [like they did to black widow]
damn so if we’re all figments of Fringy’s imagination then he’s got some pretty serious self loathing issues he’s gotta work through, considering how every other comment he makes is interpreted in the most bad faith way possible and thrown back at his face lmao
I feel like everyone always forgets that you need a radioactive spider to make a Spider-Man. Nope, just suffering. Watching these 3 videos made the EFAP crew into Spider-Men. In fact, we are all Spider-Men on this glorious day!
I think you guys misunderstand why people like spiderman. Him sticking to walls, shooting webs and using banter is cool, but there are a lot of characters that have neat powers and wit. What people find most endearing about spiderman is what he endured; but not the tragedy itself. People don't want to see Peter suffer, they want to see him overcome suffering, and use it to reshape himself in a positive way. Unlike fighting space grimace, this is a kind of heroism everyone can relate to, because it's a crossroads we've either all taken, or will one day take when tragedy finally finds us. I don't agree that lacking it necessarily ruins spiderman, but it did feel like something huge was missing in the MCU version up until this third movie. The death and great power speech fixed that.
But why it has to be someone dying ? In Homecoming he missed the party which made him looked like and idiot, he missed he competition and at the end he lost the girl. Outside of Ned and MJ he looks like an irresponsible idiot to everybody in his school. He is wasting his teenage years to save people, time that he is never going to get back. I think that's more than enough suffering.
@@gamefan987 Because that's the big thing that defines most people's lives in one way or another. Him losing some of his teenage funtime to responsibility is also something we can relate to, sure. We are all spending our time doing things we don't want to do, and that's time we will never get back. A death is quite a bit more existential, and significantly more meaningful in what can come of it. And to answer your question, no, I wouldn't call what he endured in the MCU up until the third movie suffering. Even when the kid got snapped, the wheels were already turning to reverse it. He had every emotional and financial need met, and he was loved by those around him. That sounds like heaven to me, even if it did involve occasionally fighting criminals and aliens. You can make a version of batman where he just stubs his toe and that's all that happened to him as a kid, and it would work if it was somehow written well. But it just wouldn't have the same impact as the original.
@@picsl8ed867 I most certainly disagree. FFH doesn’t happen if Peter is having his emotional needs met. In fact, Mysterio’s plan *only* works because people keep piling on more and more that Peter can’t handle but that he’s desperately trying to live up to despite feeling utterly unworthy, and then here comes along someone who looks like they’re better suited to actually wearing the crown Tony Stark forced upon Peter’s head. The fact that people kept needing his help, and the people who loved him kept pushing him into being Spider-Man when he was barely treading water, to the point where he literally has a breakdown over a man who died almost a year before, when we know he’s usually a lot more stable thanks to Civil War and Homecoming’s references to Ben, is quite literally the only reason FFH and NWH happen. The idea that Peter was living a cushy life free of any struggle or consequences in the MCU is, in my opinion, not possible to have if you actually watched his movies
Peter Parker’s “tragedy” in Spider-Man ps4 works for me because his tragedy wasn’t as easily preventable like those in No Way Home. It all started with Peter helping Otto conducting a scientific experiment because Peter saw Otto as a hero but he wasn’t aware that Otto had a deep resentment against Osborn that he wants to take Osborn down, no matter how unethical. Then with the climax, Peter had to fight against his hero for the sake of justice and had to let Aunt May die to save millions of people. While he lost two prominent loved ones, he still has MJ and Miles to cheer him up and give him hope to continue being a hero. Meanwhile, Peter in No Way Home. His tragedy didn’t even have to happen at all if Happy, Pepper Potts and the entire Avengers tried harder to exonerate Peter by giving the cops the intel of Quentin Beck, a former Stark employee who was mentally unstable and was in charge of an illusion making tech. Nope, somehow the only guy who helped Peter was a blind lawyer who also had a shitty life. And how unrealistic is that everyone in New York hates Peter (who saved them and talked to them everyday) for “murdering” the multiverse hero like Mysterio (whom they’ve never met). And FBI must be so stupid that they believed immediately that Mysterio is an actual multiverse hero without investigating further.
1: literally at no point in FFH does any good guh find out that quentin is an ex stark employee. (And quentin isnt his real name so looking into him that way wouldnt reveal anything) 2: The movie goes out of its way to show that NOT everyone hates him. When hes entering school there are to equel opposing groups, one that sides with mysterio, and one that sides with him. Only one of his three teachers sides with mysterio. 3: How the FUCK would the FBI investigate weather or not mysterio was from an alternate universe? That literally makes no sense at all.
@@tevenpowell8023 Yep. I appreciate not having to personally type that all out. Couldn't have countered him better myself. And what's funny is I actually AGREE with the broad strokes version of what his point was, but I had... well... *VALID* examples of why No Way Home's tragedy was "easily preventable."
@@tevenpowell8023 *Most* of them actually, yes. Exactly. In fact, I don't know if it's possible to even *start* the conversation about Peter's tragedy in this film *without* immediately blaming Doctor Strange for being such an incompetent fucking moron and causing it all to begin with. Doctor Strange ruined Peter's entire life and the film doesn't even acknowledge it.
4:16:41 Yes. Yes, it is. It's not something they often explore in the movies, but Peter Parker began off pretty callous and self-serving as well as having anger issues. What happened to Uncle Ben helps him focus his motivation, but there have been times when he almost lets his anger get the better of him. One of the more famous examples of this would be after his secret identity was revealed and Wilson Fisk attempted to have him assassinated only for the shot to miss and hit Aunt May. As a result, Peter beats Fisk to within an inch of his life and threatens that if anyone he loves is ever harmed again, he will kill him. Another example would be the Symbiote story. The Symbiote didn't make him angry and violent. It just elevated his negative traits. And considering the fact that Peter is one of the strongest characters in the Marvel Universe, his anger could lead to disaster. Anger is one of his biggest flaws and one he has to contend with every now and then.
Uncle Ben had his chance
we need to see uncle Ben getting fucking DROPPED in every spooderman
I am all the Uncle Ben!
😭😂😭
You know, I’m something of an uncle myself.
@@PedroThePanda64 yes
4:28:34 Browntable: "He's a person just like us, this isn't a Peter Parker that knows a billionaire..." But he does, Tobey Spiderman knows Harry Osborne and Norman Osborne, most Spider-Man know rich guys lol
Maybe by « knows » he means « is intimate friends with » ?
Guire’s Peter doesn’t have the same relationship with Osborn as… the last one (I forgot his name)’s Peter as with IM.
Iron Man is intentionally made to be a mentor figure to Tom Spider-Man, inspiring him to be a superhero. Tom Spiderman also used Iron Man tech instead of his own. Tobey Spider-Man and comic Spiderman did not have this type of relationship with any billionaire.
5:52:53 Still reeling a bit here from the argument "May has to be alive for it to be Spider-Man," how does that reconcile with Peter B. Parker in Spiderverse? His exact line is _"I buried Aunt May"_ which is said over a shot of Peter staring at her fucking headstone.
Believe me, the Spiderman Purist can just double down. Showed a friend of mine who's a lifelong fan of Spiderman Spiderverse, and he hated it for like a dozen different reasons.
It is usually because Aunt May is suppose to be his moral compass and one who he turns to when he is in a crisis. Uncle Ben created the foundation and Aunt May is the one helping to build the house. But Aunt May doesn't always need to be there. Hopefully he gets a wife who could replace Aunt May in the morals department.
@@velnoa That is probably the best depiction of Spiderman outside of the comics.
Well in spiderverse Peter B. Parker is well past his youth and aunt may died of old age. I'm more annoyed this aunt May was killed to wash out uncle Ben for the responsibility speech which sorta becomes a bait n switch because that turns 3 movies and cameo part into a drawn out origin story flipped backwards.
@@omgazr0
That second sentence of your's was completely invalid, as it's nothing but subjective biases mixed with incorrect projection of intent.
Please, if you're going to criticize this movie for all of it's massive flaws, then please do so genuinely and with some principled integrity.
*In Honor of Headmetwall, the Timestamp Guy - Don But Not Forgotten*
"How Big Can an Owl Get?" - The Much-Anticipated EFAP Owl Discussion ft. Frongold: 1:30
"WooOOOAAAHH" - My Appearance in the Chat: 3:19
Betty White, RIP: 4:44
The Vote of the Dark Triad Commences: 8:00
Movie Robert has Won: 18:31
Start MovieBob NWH Take: 20:11
FilmRobert's Design Philosophy is Nihilism: 27:02
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HiTop Begin: 1:24:01
D R I P P I N G W I T H S T Y L E: 1:24:43
But First, A Word from Our Sponser! (Also the Mask Slips): 1:37:39
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I guess Browntable (Seriously, what kind of a name is that?): 3:52:44
GAMINGGG (The Chat pleas for Cosmonaut's take, their voices fall on deaf ears): 4:41:48
What happened to him? Is he ok?
@@froggotheweebo6806 I'm not sure, but until his return, he will be missed.
@@charlesowen5408 #DonButNotForgotten
Ikr, Browntable is the worst name in the history of the internet, I hate it so much, personally, I think it’s very offensive, truly disrespectful
I'm not sure if EFAP knows this but Tobey Maguire and Alfred Molina actually fought on a speeding train while filming Spider-Man 2.
Man, it was a real tragedy when Alfred Molina died while filming during that runaway fusion reactor accident. The man saved both the film and thousands of lives. Kino.
I find it sad that James Franco got cancelled as an actor he willing to burn his face and get stabbed by a space alien from outer space
@@puppysect And then John Watts actually opened a rift to a parallel dimension where he was alive to film this. Now thats dedication to the craft.
I'm stuck with the bit where Marc Webb dunked Jamie Foxx into a tub full of electric eels and then killed the guy all for one movie. Should probably have been charged for that.
@Nicholas Cage Did the guy you summoned have Octupus arms? Becoase thats a crucial detail
For you peeps saying you need timestamps, here you go.
00:00:00 - Intro, Betty White, Chat Votes for the 1st Video, "Muckbang" Videos (Fun Fact, I didn't know this existed and sadly that is no longer the case)
00:20:00 - Beginning of Moviebob Video
01:24:06 - Beginning of HiTop Video
03:51:40 - "I don't know if we can fit Browntable in, can we?"
03:52:45 - Beginning of Browntable Video
04:38:39 - End of Browntable Video, Beginning of Gaming and Superchats
06:19:56 - Dr. Skipper Dips Out
I like that "he is comprehensible" is a sincere point of praise regarding the Nostalgia Critic.
Kinda of a mood tbh
He is truly akin to the almighty cthulhu
Never underestimate the power of speaking in a way that people don't have to guess what you're saying.
@@teddyharvester I suppose that is a virtue, but I never would have thought it needed outright stating.
I like this. Objectively cool.
I've had a relization: Hi-top dosnt actually care about artistic vision.
He thows in "to me" and "personally" in like every sentence
He never actually talks about what they might be going for, and if they succeeded. He only ever talks about what HE WANTED to see, and complains he didnt get it.
He's viewing every movie through his own feelings towards it. And then claiming that if he didnt like it then its cause they "lacked vision" when really its just a vision he dosnt like.
That's modern criticism for you, you're trying to avoid structuralism (using a solid framework to determine what the creator wanted to do and if they succeeded at doing it) because it gets in the way of talking about yourself.
That's literally HiTop's entire shtick... It's not about saying what's good and what's bad (even if that was possibly, it would be completely worthless), but rather about explaining and analysing what affects him personally. His reviews are even more explicitly from his perspective than the usual, and they usually deal with his personal emotional experiences and why they happened.
You're the ones trying to be the arbiters of what criticism should be... Art is subjective and must be, in some ways, personal. Videos focusing solely on that extremely personal experience are worthy of some people's time, and, though they can be criticized, should be criticized from the understanding that they're not aiming to tell you "this is good and this is bad" but rather "this works FOR ME".
@@radiofloyd2359 You missed my point. Hi-Top himself always says he values the directors vision above all else when he clearly does not. One of my favorite youtubers is Jacob Geller, and his videos are a thousand times more subjective and all about his personal interpretation. Hi-top should just be honest and say its his opinion, but he dresses it up its poorly made or that the director has no style or message whatsoever.
@@tevenpowell8023 Fair.
Almost as if he's a critic that gives his own opinion on things.
EFAP bingo:
Mauler says "bits and bobs",
Rags says "dut-ta-duh",
Fringy says " c a t e g o r i c a l l y "
Skipper says
Lol
Fingers crossed MauLer says “Tellytubbies”
Nah Fringy 's is : "Nough!"
and : "Look at him go!"
also add to the bingo card "Ob;igatory Hitler reference from Rags"
@@MilkT0ast Oh god I love it whenever there's some geeky little creature or big gentle chungus thing like that monorail alien in Mando S3 and Fringy is just utterly delighted by it/them, not even doing anything. "Look attum gough, he's sough happy!"
Also starting a topic by going "I guess the interesting thing is,"
Fringy should be bringing up “ought to” in relation to “should”
Browntable went from "Asking a woman to smile is sexual harassment" to "thank you for sending in lewd fanart of my underage character" really fast
I love how everyone's ragging on EFAP for mocking Browntable but not ragging on Browntable for saying, "Asking a woman to smile is sexual harassment." Hypocrisy at its finest.
@@SiddharthShenoy Don't forget his famous "I used to think relating to characters was more about personality than skin color until I heard Miles Morales speak Spanish"
@@SiddharthShenoy “sexual harassment” was just stupidity. What Efap is doing here is full blown animosity, extremely uncalled for at that
@@TheVagabond627 What EFAP did here was mild condescension. BT will live from getting his shirt pooh-poohed for a few seconds
@@TheVagabond627 oh no, making fun of someone for their shirt is so terrible.
Every time someone mentions Uncle Ben I get reminded of the SuperBestFriends (rip) bit of Uncle Ben whispering: "Kill them all, Peter!" before he dies.
So we just gonna pretend that there isn't a version of Peter out there who got everything he wanted, and has a daughter and wife with Spider powers?
Are we also going to forget that there's a version of Peter Parker out there where he's the head of his own corporation?
Or the version of Peter Parker who had a clone crisis, and got overtaken by the symbiote carnage
Comics are a disaster for the Purist tastes. The more movies get made of a franchise, the less the individual differences in each variation can be described as a problem.
I just realized your talking about mayday but even then he lost his leg aunt may is dead
@@TheKpa11 Or the version of Peter Parker that gave MJ cancer from his radioactive semen.
Hitop: Far From Home doesn’t have regular teens problem
No Way Home: College problems cause the entire thing.
Hitop: They’re regressing the stakes and it’s bad.
Wish I had some steak :(
@renji0002 this is known. He has a clear bias towards the Sam Raimi films that he's not willing to acknowledge taints his perspective. He pretty much only wants a Spider-Man movie to be like the Sam Raimi films. As Jay pointed out, he may even say he's biased, proceed to get things wrong about the MCU Spider-Man movies, and then attempt to lampshade it under "that's just my opinion, bro."
@renji0002 if I may ask, why does Jay annoy you? He's probably one of my favorite guests in the podcasts. I think he brings a unique mindset to the group and he tends to have insights that the others don't.
@renji0002 as a person who hardly uses Twitter and tries to avoid it, his twitter can be obnoxious from what I've seen. That being said, it's not Smud boy level or anything. At worst I feel like it's just incompetent. I think his argumentation skills have come a long way since he joined EFAP. His stances during the Hasan, ah relevant, and Denims situation were airtight, as was his stance on hitop. He's also shown almost irritating levels of charitably towards people like that.
@renji0002 his Twitter stuff can be pretty painful though. I'll agree with you there.
3:06:30 it really sounds like hi-top wanted Tobey and Andrew to be introduced right in the middle of an action scene, cause what is the problem with them talking to each other first and then going to the action part later ?
I shouldn’t feel more attracted to Aunt May, than MJ. That makes the movie bad.
Maybe we're just getting older...
Maybe that’s just saying that MJ isn’t really attractive, rather than that Aunt May is super attractive.
Or it could be both. But I still agree.
Marisa Tomei is unreasonably hot
@@MaxRovensky Just like Clarice van Houten...
I sincerely hope this comment is satirical, but at this point I couldn't possibly be sure.
Why does HiTop always sound like he's on the verge of crying?
You're mistaking "crying" for the sound of him almost orgasming at the sound of his own voice.
I won't say who it is because he seems like a decent guy and I don't want to be mean to him, but there is one RUclipsr who I just can't sit through because he constantly sounds like he's an anime character perpetually staring sorrowfully into the distance and imagining that time he went to a festival with his friends who have since died in battle. While I haven't had any major disagreements with his actual points and I am sure he's a nice guy, I simply can't listen to it for that long.
Much as I don't like it, however, I would rather watch ten of his back-to-back than one of HiTop's, because HiTop tries SUPER hard to be an "artiste" (cue dramatic hand gesture) with his inflection, script, and tone, and it comes off as self-aggrandizing and obnoxious.
Cause he’s pathetic
He always sounds like he’s depression. Like he’s literally Heart broken because mcu spider man isn’t like the Rami series. Grow the frick up
He sounds like he’s depression lol
Movie Bob becomes Cinema Robert, who evolves into Theatrical Ruberto, finally completing the transformation with Talky Bobby
3:26:20 I don't think your mentor heroically sacrificing himself to save half the universe is a comparable loss to your uncle being unceremoniously murdered by a petty thug that you let go. It's a lot easier to come to terms with Tony's death when you can comfort yourself with knowing it saved half the universe.
It's kind of like the difference of having Johnathan Kent die of a heart attack in most Superman properties, to allow Clark to grow by seeing that despite his strength there are some people he's powerless to save...
Versus Johnathan choosing to die in a tornado in a situation where Clark could have chosen to easily save him and every other person there, as some lesson about how sometimes you need to just let people die, because reasons lol?
@@RobertMorgan I wouldn't compare those at all to Spiderman tho
I mean, dead is dead. Being heroically dead doesn't change the loss he feels, or the sense that he's not good enough to live up to his example. They are simply two different scenarios. I wouldn't say either is strictly better or worse.
@@EmberBright2077 Exactly, it’s gets the job done
Losing a dear friend is still a tremendous loss for anyone
I think that the death of the characters having close connection with peter is not the reason for his character development. Rather it is why they die that gives him character development.The reason of death of all those characters is that they die trying to do the righteous thing. Uncle ben in raimi movies dies trying to teach the thief to walk on the correct path and to rectify their mistakes. Harry dies trying to correct his previous misdeeds. In the webb movies uncle ben tries to stop the thief when he sees that the thief has a gun and realises that he is a dangerous person and while trying to seize the the gun, he dies. Gwen dies after peter asks him to stay away from the electricity grid as it was dangerous for her, but she still goes disregarding his warning because she wants to take her own decisions and she herself wants to help peter to bring back electricity to the town and defeat electro. She succeeded in doing what she wants but in doing so was attacked by green goblin and killed. So it is not necessarily the death of the characters that motivates him but it is rather their mindset, virtues, values and priorities which teaches him and strengthens his own moral compass, mindset and aspirations. They teach him that he has to do the righteous thing even if his own life and the life of the people he cares about are in danger. They teach him about self-sacrifice, virtue, righteousness,responsibility.
ew no how can i be expected to care unless the moral of the story is that everything is shit and life is only suffering
@@unpopularopinions7407 the whole point of Peter is that his life is shit but the dude keeps going. That's way more interesting than having his life always be good.
@@razorwing360 I disagree, I think you could tell incredible stories about a non-suffering Peter.
@@EmberBright2077 you can, but the ones where he does suffer are just gonna be better. Way more compelling since we can empathize with him more
@@razorwing360 how so? I personally really like the idea of a character (and indeed a Peter Parker) who learns lessons and perspectives from people he loves, and follows his values to do what he believes is right. Maybe those values can be challenged in more interesting ways as he's exposed to opposing perspectives, and he can have more focus on the contemplation of those ideas, changing his approach as he gets a little bit wiser as he gains experience, maybe with opposing views even reinforcing his initial beliefs as he now has a greater perspective of the need of responsibility, etc.
I would even say the need to kill off characters on dramatic fashion to try to achieve that sort of thing is almost cliche, I don't think there's anything wrong with it in a vacuum, but I don't think it's good to think that is the only way to have meaningful development.
It never sounds right when someone like Browntable, who speaks so eloquently, uses phrases like "dope" and "this slaps".
It never sounds right when anybody says something "slaps" or "drips" lol
_How do you do fellow kids_
Serious note: I’ve heard “slap” in comments regarding osts’
@@libertyprime6932"Drip" only works when Razzle does it. Those guys can actually do zoomer irony well. "Slaps" works well when paired with "cheeks" and delivered in a monotone, semi-serious context without dwelling on it.
As usual, Theatrical Ruperto is the WinZip of RUclips content.
You have to spend minutes replaying his lines, breaking down his often vague and imprecise adjectives and metaphors just to decipher his often superficial critique. My god, can you imagine taking a restaurant order from him?
"But before I MAKE my order I think we need to look into the sociological origins of the RAMIFICATIONS of the concept of a restaurant, being of course the ultimate concept of property as viewed through a lens wherein the producers of the product that is PRODUCED are overbearingly burdened with the condemnation of the joy that is, of course, readily apparent to anyone who approaches this concept from a standpoint of historical knowledge of the factors involved or how one came to accept the concept of "fries" in a "meal." This also relates to NINTENDO, who..."
@@CruelestChris Jesus, I just covered MovieBob on another podcast. Took several hours to wade through a bad, 7-minute video. It's verbal Chinese water torture, I swear!
We serve food here, sir.
@@destroyer1187
"This of course, to anyone familiar with feminist theory, is a typical alt-right dogwhistle wherein the juxtaposition (pronounced "JUCK-stupper-dition") of "food" and "service" reflects the societal obsession with the commodification of both the menial and the fantastical, such that the mere mention of serving food is used to silence critical discourse within certain select spaces where it would be most warranted, and of course desired in addition to that, which is a typical observation regarding the MCU and other comic-book-movies."
(A trick to writing truly convincing Bob is you have to forget the subject of your own sentences near the end)
Pot. Kettle. Black.
“Oh the ravages of time can’t kill this old hag? Don’t worry, putting a cap in her backside should do the trick!” -Browntable: Nemesis of Peter Parker
The Brown Goblin
I was reading quickly so my brain registered this as:
“Browntable Nemesis Parker”
And I’m now imagining an RE Nemesis with the face of Browntable and the powers of Spider-Man repeating “sexual harassment” as he swings through the city, somebody do an art of that please.
@@BilboniousBagODonuts Greentable.
What?
@@Dragonage2ftw fun fact: if you’re confused because you don’t have context, it usually works to actually watch the EFAP instead of just going to the comments
It's easy to counter argue Hitop's videos. Just say the opposite of whatever he's saying. He has nothing to fall back on then, because like a student who only writes the answers to a math test, he has no process for how he got to his answer. So he cant prove or disprove anything.
The combined might of Sexual Harassment, Hitop “A Bad Spider-Man Movie” Alex and the mighty Diabeto himself. Will EFAP survive?
They may need a rescue from Peeping Tom!
@@BilboniousBagODonuts He saw this coming and has already assembled the Perv Squad including X-Ray Gurl, The Nerdaholic, and the Astounding Dilk Duggler!
EFAP has to call apon the Spiders for guidence.
Yeah, I had to tapout a quarter through Hitop
What a shite video that was
The Sinister Six of Efap (Bob accounts for 4/6 of them)
“She will probably live another million years”
Sure got that wrong Mooler
RIP Queen Elizabeth II
EFAP managed to cover a Cinema Robert video in under an hour?? They're evolving as critics....
Or Ol' Bobby is rapidly running out of bad takes worth even commenting on...
Probably that his 7 min vid should had been a 3 min video. I believe they are tired of listening to him reading out a thesaurus.
There wasn't really anything to cover since he spoke a lot of words without saying anything, they spend more time critizing his video style than anything he actually said
They were never critics tho
I mean, to be fair, that was a really low level Cinema Robert video with the worst things being the run-on word-salad sentences that you have to rephrase in your head to make sense of. No casual psychopathy and mentions of eugenics in this one to be stunlocked by in this one.
The fact that the dumbass references One More Day in a positive light in any mention on how Spider-Man should be done is hilarious. Probably the most infamous story out of his entire history. Hell, one of the main reasons people hate it is because of the reasoning behind it, where Marvel didn't like the idea of Peter being happy, mature and in a stable marriage. So they decided to retcon him back into a tired status quo.
What was the reasoning?
I’m pretty sure the head writer of that story was going through his divorce when writing OMD, the storytelling of that crap comic shows with how it went out of it’s way for the deal to happen especially with making Peter choose his Aunt who at best had several more years left had she survived over his wife and unborn daughter: Mayday Parker.
It's like people don't want there characters to actually evolve or grow. Peter marrying MJ and eventually becoming a father was a natural state for his character to go.
@@RogueFox2185 Is it…. actually “Mayday Parker”?! Like that’s her name xD
Apologies to anyone who actually had that name but I guess I just find it funny
@@warrenharshaw7677 They don't. That's the problem with a lot of people. They love the DC/Marvel status quo.
The "in my opinion" card came back with a friggin vengeance in the hitop video. How many times did he have to say "to me" at the end of his claims cause you know if he got called out he'd have a bad time trying to justify his bold claims.
HiTop needed with great power comes great responsibility in exact words. Completely missed Tony, his mentor's, final message to him when leaving EDITH being "heavy lies the head that wears the crown." It means the exact same thing.
The actual uncle ben quote is with great power must come great responsibility. And I’d say their different Tony had no powers iron man was the suit. Peter can’t stop being Spider-Man unless he gets rid of a change to his genetics.
@@mr.j7444 That's kind of irrelevant to the point of the message though, and even then Tony had power. Wasn't a super power but he was a multibillionaire military contractor bankrolling and leading the Avengers. Also Uncle Ben didn't have super powers either.
@@stillsameguy2836 also also, everyone knew he was iron man, so it isn't like he can just forget about the suit and move one.
It also needed to be explicitly said on screen, preferably while Peter’s watching a parental figure die. It can’t just be heavily implied that Peter already heard those words before his introduction in Civil War. “When you can do the things that I can do, but you don’t and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you,” Does HiTop think Peter was just quoting his last fortune cookie?
Hi-top got one big vein on his forehead when during the credits of Spider-Man homecoming it said "no Uncle Ben's were harmed during the making of this film."
Is that actually in the credits?
@@Masonia_ no
The whole point of Uncle Ben dying isn’t the act itself but more what it represents regarding Peter.
This conversation has many iterations but the most common one is moments before Peter goes to an underground wrestling match to win a cash prize. Lying to May and Ben by saying he’s going to study at the library.
Whether it be a conversation instigated by Ben in the Rami trilogy or Peter asking Ben if he should use his new powers to better his own situation in Spectacular, Ben uses that line. “With great power comes great responsibility”.
It’s his way of saying that just because you have the ability to do something it shouldn’t give you the right to do it. In lying and taking the match Peter abuses his powers for monetary gain and then neglects using them after he was conned and a robber stole the money he thought was rightfully his. When confronted with this he repeats the sentence he was told by the spokesperson that didn’t pay him the money he was promised “it’s not my problem”
And with that selfish need to get even with someone that same robber stole a car and shot a man dead. That man being Ben Parker. Once he realised this he made it his mission to ensure that no other person will become like his Uncle. No good man will be gunned down for a car or for money while he has the ability to stop it even if it affects his own life because “with great power comes great responsibility”.
That’s why Uncle Ben’s death affects him more than it should because he’s indirectly responsible for it. He had a chance to stop that man while he was running down the hall with the money but he didn’t because he felt robbed and decided to make the man that wronged him feel the same way and in that selfish act the city lost one more good man among the dozens of bad ones and he lost the closest thing he had to a father.
It’s not that I don’t get what y’all are saying but please don’t ridicule the argument that Uncle Ben has value to the story of Spider-Man because he does. It’s not an opinion it’s a fact that’s in the comics these films are based off.
Also in regards to what “peak Spider-Man” is along with you guys, Rags especially being borderline condescending towards Browntable’s remarks towards Peter suffering despite the fact that he could’ve worded things better is that Peter is supposed to have complications in his life.
If Pete had a good life with no hardships or dead friends and family especially when he puts the mask on it wouldn’t be compelling because aside from the web slinging and bad guy fighting the stuff that people come to see regarding Spider-Man is how it affects Peter’s life.
Let’s take Spectacular for example. In the third episode of that he cures Dr Conners with a gene cleanser but takes a picture of the fight to win money to pay his aunt’s bills. In doing so he’s fired from his internship and is seen as a scumbag by his closest friends.
Because of that he starts to reach a breaking point. Taking another vial of gene cleanser in order to cure himself of powers he got by chance. A mistake that is dismantling his life that he can rectify just by drinking the cleanser.
It’s only once he’s reminded as to why he does this via a picture of his uncle that he starts weighing the pros. He saved Conners and the doctor’s son doesn’t live fatherless like Peter himself. So he decides to keep the gene cleanser but doesn’t use it until later in the show.
You see what I mean? Spider-Man has an actual affect on Peter’s life and because of that he has a tough time with other commitments like a date or rent because he has to stop Electro or Doc Ock from hurting people.
Stan Lee wanted the comics to be about a relatable character. It’s why he’s commonly a nerd with financial issues and a family that can hardly support themselves let alone him and it’s why he’s still bullied despite having the ability to punch said bully all over. Because the character of Peter is written to be more relatable than his web slinging persona in the comics.
It’s why many people have a problem with Tony Stark essentially rewarding him stuff like a new suit or state of the art technology. Because Peter as a character in the comics has always been someone who’s down on his luck while Spider-Man is a cherished icon in the city that is also ridiculed by a news bulletin that Peter unfortunately has to supply pictures for. Again another thing that affects him personally. Having to assist in this smear campaign against himself for doing a good deed because he doesn’t have the money to say no and the bulletin are the only people that will pay him after all his other job opportunities have failed.
That’s the Spider-Man people are after. And while I like Tom Holland as Spider-Man I will admit that I get where these people are coming from as a die hard Spidey fan myself.
YoU JuSt WaNt To SeE HiM SuFfeR
Excellently put. I've found EFAP super disingenuous on this subject.
@@dragonknightleader1 indeed, usually I like Efap but dear lord this was just painful to watch for me.
Especially Rags’ comments regarding Uncle Ben as well as how the Spider-Man persona is affecting Peter’s life drastically. I know that he comes across as a dick most of the time. It’s his charm and humour so it’s understandable but he’s going really at it at these two for pointing out something that should be obvious for Spider-Man fans.
Mostly his comment about how he doesn’t care about the traditional Spider-Man seems to peeve me the most for some reason.
Spider-Man is born out of the tragic death of Uncle Ben. Peter doesn’t become a superhero if his uncle is absent from his young life.
@@Red-zh7vq But what if we had a story where we did?
Wouldn't it be meaningful to explore how he, or the story, could be different due to him learning "uncle Ben's" lessons another way. How about if he doesn't even learn them at all?
I'm not sure what all you can see looking into an Owl's ear, but it's noteworthy that one of their ears is a great deal larger than the other, the difference in hole sizes allowing the owl to better gauge the distance, direction, and elevation of potential noises and thus prey. They can of course rotate their head three quarters of the way around, or two hundred and seventy degrees. But I think their most impressive feature is the textured down of their feathers that allows them to glide silently.
This all of course while being that combination killing machine and adorable that humans just love. Fringy is right, Owls are great. Especially the Great Horned Owl. The largest Owl is the Blakiston Fish Owl, with a wingspan of 6 feet - nearly 2 meters!
That’s super cool, you learn new things every day. I wonder why owls look so different to other birds of prey as well, like eagles and hawks? I know that generally birds have protruding hooked beaks, whilst owls have flat faces with smaller, sloped beaks. Interesting stuff
@@peterbarlow5709 their face is like a radar dish that works in tangent with their asymmetrical ears to better locate their prey in complete darkness if need be. Blakiston's fish owl is tied with the Eurasian eagle-owl for being the heaviest (10.1 lbs), and both can have a wingspan up to 6'7". The great grey owl is the longest overall at 33 inches, but doesn't weigh nearly as much as the previous two owls mentioned. As with most birds of prey, females are bigger. Also, not all owls are nocturnal, and not all owls have silent flight (like fish owls). And as cool as turning their heads 180 is, technically lots of birds can do that, it's just more noticeable in owls due to their build.
I really wonder sometimes why the most specialzied, actually totally leathal and fearsome predators...do look the cutest to us?
I get it that they usually have the eyes forward to hunt which appeals to us, but look at Cats (small and big breeds), Otters, Owls, or Icebears...those can´t be more deadly to their prey if they tried to...imagine beeing a mouse and facing a Cat...but they are SO CUTE!
Yeah but these are AUSTRALIAN owls, they're venomous and kill dozens of people a year with their venom-spurs, possibly.
@@peterbarlow5709 because they're nocturnal. All those other raptor adaptations are for daylight hunting. Owls are the sole nocturnal bird predator, they own the night and thus have less prey competition.
It should also be noted the other nocturnal flying predator, bats, are not birds, they're mammals. Bats are far closer related to us, humans, than birds.
On that note, bats are why we have butterflies. In the distant past, all we had were nocturnal moths, colorless. Bats became so good at hunting moths at night, some adapted to escape bats by becoming diurnal, and with daylight color became a thing. Now we have colorful diurnal moths we call butterflies that are safe from bats.
HiTop genuinely annoys me more than Movie-Jabba the BobHutt. His stuff is like fussily-edited TikkyTokky videos with bigger budgets, better equipment and 500 lbs of misplaced self-regard. It all screams "I scored 5th in the local film-festival's junior film-makers category, which only had 200 entries". And that film festival was so ghetto it had Movie Bob as the guest-speaker. Meanwhile HiTop sees himself as the Prince of Slamdance.
Bobba the Hutt
@@josephweppelman2021 😸
From: "I watched Gandalf die and I felt nothing. "
To: "I watched Aunt May die and I clapped. "
Wait who said that? What?
@@rileymoore2967 It was from the Lord of the Rings EFAP 93.
I'd never seen a Hitop video before, and I probably never will again. I'm blown away by how pretentious and self-absorbed he is with himself.
“Is the queen next?”
Well this is an interesting time for me to be watching this
Why are we still talking about Spiderman when Spiderman man is literally coming out. Spiderman!
Why are we still talking about literal Spiderman when Browntable's InterStellar Ranger Commence is coming out?
I like to see a character overcome their suffering and develop as a character but some of these guys just go into a movie or game like relishing in the torment of someone they supposedly like.
When Civil war introduced Spiderman to the MCU and later in Homecoming, it was clear that the character was constructed to be different from Tobey's and Andrew's version. I don't know where this false hyperbolic non-sense started that Tom's spiderman is helpless without Tony or Strange, and that he isn't or wasn't "a real spiderman" because no one was fridged to motivate him...yet.
“Why don’t you chew that spit and walk to the bank with it?”
-Rags
I did not expect a return of "narrative tripling". I literally exploded.
I just love that HiTop lists Spider-man 2 as his favorite Spider-man film, waxes poetic about Raimi villains being in NWH, and then pronounces Alfred Molina’s last name “mill-ee-noh” 🙄
Who cares?
@@matthewmakkar1524 k lol
@@jacksparrow7618 Lol
I think when people say that MCU Spider-Man needs actual struggles, it actually means daily life problems rather than extreme traumatic incidents. Not saying that tragedy should never happen, but I believe the character is at his best when he’s dealing with normal everyday problems alongside his superhero shenanigans. You don’t have to turn Peter Parker into Guts from Berserk to do that.
Well it doesn’t feel like Peter actually struggles in The Tom Holland portrayal as much because of his access to other characters. I’m not against this version of Peter as I like the concept and have mixed feelings about the execution but the fact that a lot of his choices aren’t so responsible after he becomes Spider-Man, in Homecoming, & Far From Home since they’re based on what matters to him or what he’s interested in, or the fact that help for him is a lot easier then Tobey’s version or Andrew’s version when they’re is in a tight spot honestly can make it understandable why Tom’s Spidey is a bit controversial. His little accuracy to the source material is also the icing on the cake. Like I don’t mind the distinct additions they made for him in this version but did they really need to cut off most of the previous material to make him feel unique? Why not blend both?
Who cares about spiderman! Browntable's InterStellar Ranger Commence is coming out!
basically this.
You’ve put into words what I’ve been thinking for a while now. Peter’s “struggles” are best displayed in Raimi’s Spider-Man 2: He saves some kids as Spider-Man, but loses his job because he was late to deliver pizzas. He stops a high-speed chase, but doesn’t make it to MJs play (also because of a douche-y usher, but that’s not the only factor). It’s not that he has to experience trauma to be the best Spider-Man, but being Spider-Man always tends to interfere with his personal life in some way. The best example of this in MCU’s Spider-Man, I believe, is him missing out on a relationship with Liz because he chose to do the right thing to bring The Vulture down or when he chooses to tail the Stark tech truck and missing out on the science competition as a result. We don’t need a character death every movie, we just need to see him trying to balance being Peter and being Spider-Man.
I don’t care if he doesn’t have actual struggles or not FFH felt like a filler movie to me.
BrownTable describing Peter wanting to KILL someone: "That is Spider-Man."
God Dixon That line caused me to spit my drink out. No. That isn’t Spider Man. Because Peter clearly was acting on wanting revenge and hence it took Tobey Parker to snap him out of it. Specifically him being stabbed. So BrownTable got that wrong. Bright side; his video essay was the least terrible out of the two others.
@@Avarn388 I think he meant the idea of him *wanting* to kill but choosing not to is "Spider-Man" but that's also wrong; still an interesting take on the character though.
I mean, in the comics, Spider-Man wants to kill Goblin when Goblin killed Gwen.
The best thing about Spider-Man is he's a normal human being with real emotions. Of course he wanted to kill the person who killed his loved ones, but he choose not to. In Spider-Man 1, he wanted to kill the thief who killed Ben.
Ash Ketchum: Development is for nerds, look at me, I’m forever 10 and people love me, and I barely change at all
Mario: I agree
Sonic: I change, then safely go back to my classic basics all the time, and people love me all the same.
Mickey, Donald and Goofy: We’re here too. Just as innocent and beloved on our own, separated from the corporation that owns us
DC: We retcon all the time, multiverse is the ultimate power. Every time we fail, reset, start from the beginning
@@zogwort1522
What meme?
@@zogwort1522
Oh, didn't know that was a meme for reddit, I just used it as a way to make it easier to understand the point I was making, and that the characters I listed do in fact get away with not changing and remaining as they are next to those that do change, and are complimented for it, while their are those that don't and yet are complimented regardless simply because their content lives on
Actually, you can see Ash growing to mid-teens by XYZ and then de-aged to 7 to 9 by Sun and Moon
@@tyvamakes5226 God XYZ was so fucking good
@@bender5271 I thought it was average as long as the OG series exist.
Also, Orange Islands is Ash's first championship win, not Alola
MauLer's ruined the word "intellectual" for me when he called it "intellecutal" that one time
He didn't call it that tho, there was a channel they covered who had it misspelled in their banner.
Yeah ott was thought theater who misspelled it in his videos and banner and then efap saw it and couldn't stop laughing at the irony
@@stigmaoftherose Appreciate the context, I just thought he said it wrong to be silly at the start of an episode or something. I never meant it like a callout or anything
@@watcher99999 Link? Sounds really funny
@@cyrus2395 ruclips.net/video/ArECwHMIsgI/видео.html
EFAP #78 3:59:00
"To quote Andrew Garfield's always gut-punching, vulnerable Peter Parker, they can stop Tom's Peter from ending up like them."
What I did, here, is a quote. What you said, dear boy, is not a quote. To quote Captain Falcon Samuel America, "Do better."
5:36:10 The begining of the "Tragedy is the most essential trait of Spider-man" EFAP vs Astrospect disscusion.
I've never really been a fan of the whole "spoiler free" review thing, because it feels like content for the sake of content.
well the idea behind it is that some people want to know what a person thinks of a movie and then decide whether or not they want to see it themselves, and if they decide they want to see it, they dont want to have been spoiled because they watched the review. in practice, "spoiler-free reviews" end up just being ways to put out another video without having to substantiate anything that you say in it
i prefer them, i can judge whether or not i want to waste my time with a movie or show if the reviewer is one whose opinion is usually similar to mine or multiple non-spoiler reviewers are giving the same vibes.
@@yinnyonline they should just go see the movie regardless. People have become so obsessed with others opinions they don’t form their own. You should go see something because YOU might think it’s good, not cause a hack youtuber wrote a shitty 15 minute video essay saying it’s good or bad.
@@alosim1541 most people dont want to leave their house and spend 2 hours watching a movie just because they think it MIGHT be good. they want to be more certain than that
@@yinnyonline What if the movie is on Netflix or even a free service like Tubi or something that doesn’t require you to leave your house/sit through the entire movie?
I totally understand y’all’s stance on the matter. I used to feel the same way. Then I saw a movie I thought I’d hate based off the opinion of a critic/reviewer I liked and actually loved it.
The argument that Peter regresses as a character by having the iron spider suit in infinity war is so dumb. Tony activated the suit, Peter had no actually choice to accept or deny it.
He also refused the suit prior in Home Coming.
maybe hi top wants peter to suffocate and die. SUFFERING
"Misery, misery, misery, that's what you've chosen."
“I offered you friendship, and you spat in my face.”
On the adpocalypse, the advertisers would not leave RUclips permanently if RUclips fought back against the advertisers. The advertisers themselves would be losing out on money by not putting their ads on such a massive platform. Some advertisers would leave, but others would be clamoring to buy up that empty space and won't give a shit if someone talks about how they don't think climate change is man made or something.
I want to see Brown Table make a video about how Miles Morales is not a Spider-Man because he has far less tragity and much more help. Because of the crowd he caters to he would be crucified. He has layed a dangerous trap for himself.
Not the same thing. Miles is literally a different Spider-Man.
@@grimlord3181 Oh, pedantry. Well if you are going to miss the point I suppose I should address what you said regardless and not hold it against you.
So they are different people you say? Every alternate continuity person is equally or more different to a person living in the same continuity as anyone else in that same continuity. All the way down to a sub-molecular level.
He isn’t Spider-Man, he’s miles morales Spider-Man, he isn’t Peter Parker Spider-Man because he’s a fundamentally different character with a different set of circumstances. Miles is the perfect example of they didn’t just throw out key parts of the thing and instead made their own with the circumstances they wanted
@@Abysalss This argument has already been proposed but the last proposer ran from the question. Is it not true that anyone from an alternate universe is at least as different from each other, down to the sub-molecular level, as anyone within that universe those?
Its a yes or no answer.
If yes (and the answer is yes), then the argument about multiple interpretations of Parker being different creating a problem are voided. We need now only concern ourselves with if the new thing is good.
If no then we are going to have to have a talk about what you think a universe even is, because I sure am getting tired of people appealing to physics without mentioning or even realizing that is what they are doing and then backing out without telling me how they even think multiple universes even work.
You are the one who brought up this argument so don't ignore it.
@@reaemishi2278 no because this doesn’t have to appeal to your weird “well it’s another universe so they’re molecularly different so I can just abandon what makes a character that character and still use their imagery and good will to support my completely different story and setup I wish to sell.
4:01:40 It's OK Fringy, we've ready established Rags has terrible taste in fashion, because he thinks the mere idea of wearing any shirt with any blazer is somehow 'horrible'
Salmon pink hoodies are absolutely fine!
I feel like these two statements contradict each other somehow.....
Thank you for imagining me into existence, Fringy.
This whole life thing is pretty neat.
Only hi-top can claim a movie is "visually textureless, aesthetically lifeless" and that the "visual styling gets in the way of the story" side by side, with the only thing between the two statements being a comma.
Choose one, please.
HiTop has some pretty bad reasons for not liking MCU Spider-Man, but you know what would be a truly embarrassing take to have, is if you didn't like Homecoming because Peter cries in it. I wonder if such a person exists.
Mr. Biggles is gonna completely fill his litterbox when he sees the tweet about the Flash movie erasing the Snyderverse.
The guy from Friday Night Tights that superchats $500 every week to suck off the Snyderverse is going to blow his brains out
@@gingeranagram2467 Ouch! I don't wanna laugh at that, but...
Poor McBigglo, a valiant effort indeed. But the war is over and sadly he has lost….
I’ve never felt better
So, the "Full intent to kill" thing kinda IS so Spider-man. In both the comics and the movies, Peter's been known to flip out and get murderously angry when he's aggrieved. In one run he rips Norman Osborn's face off with his sticky fingers after Gobbie causes Gwen's death. In Raimi 1, he's totally about to murder Sandman's partner before he has a change of heart. Then in 3 you get a glimpse at what that looks like with less restraint, memes aside ("killing" sandman, "little goblin junior"). TASM admits to purposely hurting criminals after Gwen died in No Way Home. It's a pattern, is all I'm saying.
Heck, Peter wanting to kill someone is based in the most recognizable and often cited appeal of Spiderman, that he's a normal dude with a good heart. He's not Captain America; he makes mistakes, he falls down, he fails. But he always tries to do the good thing in the end. Like in Spiderverse, "Spiderman always gets back up" is a reoccurring theme throughout the movie.
This is true, I always think about in Maximum Carnage when he gets obliterated by Carnage and the other villains, MJ gets mad at him, other heroes die or give up, and then the citizens of New York start attacking him, and he basically completely loses his shit, throwing cars around and pretty much deciding to murder carnage, though I don't think he does. His snap was so well earned, it was nice to see him rage out.
@@Birthday888 it's funny that you compare him to Cap, because Jameson actually confronts him about that in the comics. Spiderman basically lies to Venom so he can capture both Venom and Carnage, and Jameson says something like "Captain America would've found a solution without lying, he was honorable" and Spiderman says "Cap was a legend! I'm just a man. And men have to live with their mistakes."
Actually he didn’t even have a change of heart in raimi 1, he broke his arm and then he just happened to fall out the window a few seconds later. I’m actually curious at would’ve happened if he hadn’t fallen out of the window lol
Have an objectively happy new year guys. These long streams really help me go through the long night working hours. Keep the good work through 2022 and let's hope for some good films and games in '22
Didn't Browntable talk about in his Justice League video that he learned there is more ways to make a super hero movie and as long you are true to your vision, you are good?
Now it is "It is fine to change your vision last minute, as long as you do that one correct take on Spiderman"
EFAP, please review Browntable's Inter Stellar Ranger. 4:37:23
Browntable seems quite proud as he had to make us aware of all the nude fanart. 😬
Yes I'd love to see a reaction from them. Preferably with Jlong on the panel cuz her comments on this guys zootopia animation where gold.
@@Jesei1211 That would be legendary, get Moriarty as well so we can combine the powers of their laughter👌
@@fluff6811 hell yess
People forget that the basic sitcom 3 camera setup with flat studio lighting had to be invented, for it's specific storytelling capabilities, by an avant garde experimental filmmaker.
I always used to think that Batman or Superman fans were the worst because they always get their panties in a bunch when any other character can a get a little edge on their perfect boy characters, but it might actually be Spiderman fans if they have to insist on Peter's life always being an unmitigated living hell in order for him to be valid.
Skipper was kinda just there. Would like to hear more from him
I forgot there was a guest many times
Sometimes Guests take time to get into their own on here. It happens, but yeah hope so too.
@@anomalous5549 🙄
Metal was like that for 100 episodes before he started to get fleshed out as a character.
@@samwallaceart288 the writers really started putting in effort after the tenth season
LOTR, Frodo telling Sam to go home after "eating the bread", Frodo's side was a reshoot filmed a full year after Sam's shot.
In The Incredibles, all of Bob's lines were recorded more than a year before the actor for Syndrome was even cast.
1/10 fake content.
Im not gonna argue what defines a spider-man or what is supposed to happen in a Spider-man story, but him losing someone close to him in No Way Home just made the movie hit harder compared to Homecumming and Far From Good. There's a clear difference in tone in NWH (and Spiderverse) vs HC/FFH. I think we just preferred the NWH and Spiderverse tone vs the HC/FFH Tone.
I had someone argue there was no tonal difference and that Mysterio's death had the same emotional impact. Just...no.
@@ShadowMan64572The tone in HC and FFH just felt way too lighthearted. It's not about wanting to see Spider-Man suffer, but to see him keep going in spite of his suffering. The RuBbLe scene in HC is often used as an example but damn it did not work for me.
I completely disagree in Homecoming and Far From Home there are definitely steaks. If you really look deep into the origins of Spider Man. The original Stan Lee era of comics was a lot more sitcom like. Theres a channel called Implicitly Pretentious and he made a whole video about it.
The jokes about multiversal uncle Ben getting massacred is so much funnier now that spiderverse 2 is out.
Is hitop the real villain of the spiderverse movies?
Wait, 1:01:36 Doctor Strange wasn't the Sorcerer Supreme. The other guy was. Strange clearly says so in the move because he got blipped, the other guy got the Supreme role. Movie Roberto can't even get facts straight about the movie he's reviewing.
Hi-top has some surprisingly superficial takes for someone who really wants to be artsy.
Its the same vapid shit the art kids at my university say. It's all a way to cover up their subjective takes with flowery language to make themselves sound cultured
Is it really this surprising ?
That's not surprising at all
2:32:47 is this weird example of "c'mon everyone, you know what Fringy meant. He was being hyperbolic."
This idea contradicts almost every previous EFAP where they are picking apart every word some other creator says. Either be concise and measured or be a hyperbolic water brain. Don't expect everyone to hold you to a different standard than you hold to the creators you review.
8mins later......
2:40:38 yep. My thoughts exactly. Thanks Rags
EFAP is nothing if not hypocritical. Fringy criticises lack of conciseness while sitting in a call with Mau "Lemme repeat myself 17 times with clips" Ler
So weird to see Skipper on here now after his recent god awful Godzilla video blew up and was stomped into the dirt
This is where the fun begins!
A wild Shiny then appears.
Woo woo woo
So just take whatever a whiny petulant 5 year old would say about the topic, give it to a random college freshman to spruce it up, and bam you have a hitop script
The point of 'RUclips loses money' is that Google clearly doesn't care about YT's profitability, so any appeal to such is a non sequitur. RUclips's real value is in its social influence, so naturally that's more influential to their decisions.
"Even the bad ones get a B+" "7/10" Either math isn't ole Bobert's strong suit or he doesn't know what a B+ is.
The ladder is probably true
@@DOOM_guyEditz433 sorry about this but latter..
Im only doing this sm you rewatch this video.
Used to actually like a lot of HiTop’s stuff, mainly because I’m a huge Raimi Spider-Man fan and a fan of TASM1 because that movie I feel doesn’t get enough credit, especially since it’s associated with canceling Spider-Man 4 and and being followed up with TASM2. Not saying it’s perfect, but still, I liked how HiTops pointed out the themes in that movie and how great the characters were. But the guy is incredibly contradictory and over exaggerates how “bad” a movie is. Namely Far From Home. As for the comments about him using social issues or whatever the fuck to make himself seem down to earth, I can’t agree more, considering I remember that during the Summer riots of 2020, when they first happened, he made a statement on RUclips saying “I will not be releasing a video I’ve made cause I don’t want to detract from the importance of BLM” as if he’s somehow important enough to derail the attention of that shitty movement lol
LMAO I DIDN'T KNEW HE DID THAT
36:01 To be fair I'm pretty sure this is his actual accent. He just used to hide it more. I remember Yahtzee Croshaw mentioning a few years ago that outside of his videos he does speak with a thick accent.
Seeing yahtzee and movie bob referenced in the same sentence hurts my brain a bit.
It's pretty disturbing how much joy Browntable gets from Peter's suffering.
He can pretty much give both Norman Osborn and Eddy Brock a run for their money on wanting to see Peter utterly suffer in his personal life.
@@RogueFox2185 Norman Osborn would look back at Browntable and think he really needs to get some help.
Yes because Peter is supposed to suffer, you'd know if you understood the character
Browntable for next MCU Spiderman villain. A deranged fan who attempts to murder Peter's loved ones because "He needs to experience growth and consequences."
MK scorpion: ……………..
Movie Bob is to competent audio what Carrot Top is to mens' hair fashion.
That Hitop vid was so pretentious, cringe and flat-out awful that it hurt to listen.
Spider-verse did Peter’s suffering really well. He suffered from something that can happen to *EVERYONE* like going bankrupt from bad investment, losing Aunt May due to natural causes, getting a divorce with MJ because he’s too scared to have a baby and getting fat due to his depression. And after that, he *GREW* . He learned to take risk again thanks to his experience with a youngblood like Miles. The essence of Spider-Man doesn’t have to be Peter succumbing to all kinds of tragedy, death and destruction. It could be small, realistic internal conflict like this.
Having the villains keep winning while Peter keep losing for the sake of being “suffer” doesn’t help in his character development at all. Plus, I feel like Peter having to live up to the motto “With great power, comes great responsibility” is so out of place in the MCU because there are so many heroes who have even greater power than Peter but lack responsibility everywhere, like Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, Sam Wilson or Black Panther, and all of them got to walk scot free.
Why would other people being irresponible void Peters own personal code? He didnt learn that from other heroes, he learned that himself
@@tevenpowell8023 the point is that that message would only apply to Peter but not to the others unfairly. It’s the fact that Peter has learned it but the others who should’ve learned it didn’t.
@@ColorlessRonin why should they have learned it? Im genuinely confused
@@ColorlessRonin wouldnt a better point then be that they should have them interact with Spider-Man at some point so he can show them something he has already learned?
Wait, in this video you guys criticize MJ's character in the Raimi films, yet in your response to Cosmonaut you argued his point even though he criticized her for the same reason. =/
That Browntable animation is not cringe, Rags. It looks good.
I love Mauler but I disagree with the fact that Tobey’s spider-man “summarizing” Harry’s literal sacrifice with just a “He tried to kill me and he died in my arms” or something like that, he could’ve said “He sacrificed his life for me” less amount of words and more in character for him. Y’know damn well the only reason they did that was so they could make that joke with ned later. Not so objective of you guys.
I still can't get over Bob being younger than me. Until I found that out, I thought for sure that he was 15-20 years older than me.
"You see I do not think no way home was the plan for MCU Spider-man from his first appearance in Civil War, and I think people should stop acting like it is." - This is a blatant Red Herring arguement, as no one is actually claiming that. In fact any of us that are paying attention know that Kevin Feige stated that he will **start** planning out the MCU **after** Multiverse of Madness, due to all the issues arising from the continuity conflicts. That up until now he had been leaving it to the directors and showrunners. This is why I have been adamant that he be replaced ASAP before the MCU is as dead as Star Wars.
Feige never said none of that....
Also if you read the writters of Home Trilogy interview on The Warp.Thry always knew what the character arc was going to be.
After seeing two spiderman franchise with their origins in just a small amount of time they couldn't do that agsin so soon in MCU. So the trick was to make it look like they skip the origin and surprise the audience with his 3rd movie as an origin.His first and second movie were about learning the ropes of beinh s superhero.
The Home trilogy was meant to be an origin trilogy.
The only people who can't except that a trilogy can be planned out are the ones who hated the previous movies. You feel like Marvel made you look stupid with their plan and you don't want to admit it.
I love how HiTop accidentally revealed that he was drunk when he went to say NWH. I wonder if that influenced some his plot summary...issues.
HiTop, Browntable and Cinema Roberto. With their powers combined, they summon Captain Video Essay! Can they defeat the evil forces of EFAP? Find out in next episode "Captain Video Essay gets kicked in the nuts"
No one can defeat EFAP since their power of not showering is too overwhelming
When you shower you wash off the power acumulated within you, showers are for the weak who can't handle true strength.
4:37:45 I seriously never got how people actually give a shit about fictional characters ages. It is, quite literally, just a number if the character flat out doesn't exist. The issue with peds isn't that it's screwing a body that's not been alive long enough for the earth to rotate 6574/6575 times around it's axis, the issue is it's screwing over a kid who isn't mentally fit for that sort of shit and can't give consent. Drawn characters 1 : aren't mentally anything and 2 : don't need to give consent anymore than your fleshlight does; they don't fucking exist.
It's just so fucking weird to me hearing people actually bitch about a fictional character's age. If it's a real kid actually suffering that's one *thing, but when the person flat out doesn't fucking exist it's kinda fuckin different. Somehow I don't think this mentality holds for anything else like murder, torture, etc. "Police, come quick!" "why, what happened" "someone killed my imaginary friend after torturing him!" " **_*what_* ... you're aware wasting police time is a crime right" "what do you mean?" "I don't get paid enough for this"
*to be extra clear here, my verbiage is not at all to downplay the harm that actually causes, it is genuinely shit and shouldn't happen at all (although, as with all things, a shit thing happening is not necessarily a justification for anything else. Extremely commonly people abuse the pathos of CSAM to push anti-privacy laws, anti-freespeech/obscenity laws, etc. Shit things can happen without necessitating action to prevent them in the future if the cost for that resolving action is greater than the cost of not taking it) but the person being hurt **_*existing_* is sort of a binary toggle for give-a-fuckery. I don't care that however many billions of people were killed by the deathstar, because they don't exist. On the other hand break a single person's arm and I'm going to care quite a bit. The existence of the person being hurt is a prerequisite to it mattering.
3:33:18 I acutlly agree with Hitop here, the way Tobey's peter described it felt off and not the way he would describe someone he considered a dear friend
Yeah it happens with both tobeys and Andrews that was a problem for me to
Yeah, the fact they played it off as a joke felt pretty wrong.
4:32:12 is my favorite moment of the stream. Rags' delivery and choice of words is what sells it for me
5:29:30 ayy its my super chat
I absolutely get the points towards HiTop as emotional manipulation is a scummy tactic, but the points BTC made in 150-3 was some of the most headache inducing arguments I ever heard. Like, I know its cringe to use this term but it has to be said, the dude was just gatekeeping his select hero's he didn't want changed and made exceptions only to the really special ones (i.e. Joker)
I swear, these doofs always reveal their hypocritic side whenever Spider-Man/Batman is involved.
Good episode btw. Happy new year
Agreed, it’s so weird to have people on earth that completely lack self awareness and separation from their own standards. Hitop deserves a platform to speak from and nobody should ever try to take that away from him, because I really do think he has the capacity to be good, but he’s so inconsistent that it makes him difficult to trust, and that’s a shame.
(Btw I don’t know if hypocritic is a word or not, I think hypocritical is the full word lol)
food of thought, Tom Holland still would have lost Aunt May, regardless if she was in the hospital, or no. she would forgotten everything about him, and as we saw she would have kept happy in her life, at least for the duration of her recovery, while peter watches from a distance, kinda like MJ and ned are taking care of each other after they forgot about Peter.
and is not the Peter feel like he is not needed or loved, but that he learn from the other, that mistakes happen, and sometimes those mistakes hurt those around you. he want to protect them and care for them, and if he is to continue being Spiderman, not involving them is the safest route.
Darkwin That’s why I love the ending because it really emphasizes just how much sacrifice Peter has gone to make sure his loved ones are safe. It also reinforces the idea that Peter has finally learned to stand on his own two feet. Seeing other takes of himself and in a world without the Avengers, his idols are gone. And the decisions he makes are all on him. Thus he keeps shouldering on to keep up the fight against evil. If that isn’t heroic, I don’t know what is.
@@Avarn388 i dont have my hopes up, im actually affraid they are going to ruin him and ruin Doctor strange in some way. and i have prove to believe it. starting with Strange, by Wong saying "he is forgetting a lot lately" it remindme what they did to sherlock in elementary
"been distracted and forgetfull latelt" boom brain cancer... which is not ruining the character, dont take me wrong, i believe he is going to be in a situation, when everyone is going to see him lose or die, and then "he forgot he could have used this spell and win" and i already hated and it just a expeculation.
For peter, im hoping to see what they have planned, if they do him correctly, he will try to overcorrect mistakes before on the next movie, which, mean he probably going to be more aggresive, or too absorbed in the situation to look out for help when he could have made it easier by just asking for help, he did learn, but he still learning and that can bring him to not be the best he could. if they do him incorrectly, i would expect something like being a side character on his movie [like they did to black widow]
damn so if we’re all figments of Fringy’s imagination then he’s got some pretty serious self loathing issues he’s gotta work through, considering how every other comment he makes is interpreted in the most bad faith way possible and thrown back at his face lmao
Hitop will drag Aunt May into the second circle of hell to make a real spiderman
I feel like everyone always forgets that you need a radioactive spider to make a Spider-Man.
Nope, just suffering. Watching these 3 videos made the EFAP crew into Spider-Men.
In fact, we are all Spider-Men on this glorious day!
I think you guys misunderstand why people like spiderman. Him sticking to walls, shooting webs and using banter is cool, but there are a lot of characters that have neat powers and wit. What people find most endearing about spiderman is what he endured; but not the tragedy itself. People don't want to see Peter suffer, they want to see him overcome suffering, and use it to reshape himself in a positive way. Unlike fighting space grimace, this is a kind of heroism everyone can relate to, because it's a crossroads we've either all taken, or will one day take when tragedy finally finds us.
I don't agree that lacking it necessarily ruins spiderman, but it did feel like something huge was missing in the MCU version up until this third movie. The death and great power speech fixed that.
But why it has to be someone dying ? In Homecoming he missed the party which made him looked like and idiot, he missed he competition and at the end he lost the girl.
Outside of Ned and MJ he looks like an irresponsible idiot to everybody in his school. He is wasting his teenage years to save people, time that he is never going to get back. I think that's more than enough suffering.
@@gamefan987 Because that's the big thing that defines most people's lives in one way or another. Him losing some of his teenage funtime to responsibility is also something we can relate to, sure. We are all spending our time doing things we don't want to do, and that's time we will never get back. A death is quite a bit more existential, and significantly more meaningful in what can come of it. And to answer your question, no, I wouldn't call what he endured in the MCU up until the third movie suffering. Even when the kid got snapped, the wheels were already turning to reverse it. He had every emotional and financial need met, and he was loved by those around him.
That sounds like heaven to me, even if it did involve occasionally fighting criminals and aliens. You can make a version of batman where he just stubs his toe and that's all that happened to him as a kid, and it would work if it was somehow written well. But it just wouldn't have the same impact as the original.
@@picsl8ed867 I most certainly disagree. FFH doesn’t happen if Peter is having his emotional needs met. In fact, Mysterio’s plan *only* works because people keep piling on more and more that Peter can’t handle but that he’s desperately trying to live up to despite feeling utterly unworthy, and then here comes along someone who looks like they’re better suited to actually wearing the crown Tony Stark forced upon Peter’s head. The fact that people kept needing his help, and the people who loved him kept pushing him into being Spider-Man when he was barely treading water, to the point where he literally has a breakdown over a man who died almost a year before, when we know he’s usually a lot more stable thanks to Civil War and Homecoming’s references to Ben, is quite literally the only reason FFH and NWH happen.
The idea that Peter was living a cushy life free of any struggle or consequences in the MCU is, in my opinion, not possible to have if you actually watched his movies
I mean does the fact that he literally died at 15 not count as a hardship he had to overcome?
@@JakeMXZero 16*
Peter Parker’s “tragedy” in Spider-Man ps4 works for me because his tragedy wasn’t as easily preventable like those in No Way Home. It all started with Peter helping Otto conducting a scientific experiment because Peter saw Otto as a hero but he wasn’t aware that Otto had a deep resentment against Osborn that he wants to take Osborn down, no matter how unethical. Then with the climax, Peter had to fight against his hero for the sake of justice and had to let Aunt May die to save millions of people. While he lost two prominent loved ones, he still has MJ and Miles to cheer him up and give him hope to continue being a hero.
Meanwhile, Peter in No Way Home. His tragedy didn’t even have to happen at all if Happy, Pepper Potts and the entire Avengers tried harder to exonerate Peter by giving the cops the intel of Quentin Beck, a former Stark employee who was mentally unstable and was in charge of an illusion making tech. Nope, somehow the only guy who helped Peter was a blind lawyer who also had a shitty life. And how unrealistic is that everyone in New York hates Peter (who saved them and talked to them everyday) for “murdering” the multiverse hero like Mysterio (whom they’ve never met). And FBI must be so stupid that they believed immediately that Mysterio is an actual multiverse hero without investigating further.
1: literally at no point in FFH does any good guh find out that quentin is an ex stark employee. (And quentin isnt his real name so looking into him that way wouldnt reveal anything)
2: The movie goes out of its way to show that NOT everyone hates him. When hes entering school there are to equel opposing groups, one that sides with mysterio, and one that sides with him. Only one of his three teachers sides with mysterio.
3: How the FUCK would the FBI investigate weather or not mysterio was from an alternate universe? That literally makes no sense at all.
@@tevenpowell8023
Yep. I appreciate not having to personally type that all out. Couldn't have countered him better myself.
And what's funny is I actually AGREE with the broad strokes version of what his point was, but I had... well... *VALID* examples of why No Way Home's tragedy was "easily preventable."
I assume a few of those would be Strange not acting like an idiot?
@@tevenpowell8023
*Most* of them actually, yes. Exactly.
In fact, I don't know if it's possible to even *start* the conversation about Peter's tragedy in this film *without* immediately blaming Doctor Strange for being such an incompetent fucking moron and causing it all to begin with.
Doctor Strange ruined Peter's entire life and the film doesn't even acknowledge it.
@@tevenpowell8023 It’s been a minute since I’ve seen FFH so does shield not round up mysterio’s crew at the end? I honestly can’t remember
4:16:41 Yes. Yes, it is. It's not something they often explore in the movies, but Peter Parker began off pretty callous and self-serving as well as having anger issues. What happened to Uncle Ben helps him focus his motivation, but there have been times when he almost lets his anger get the better of him.
One of the more famous examples of this would be after his secret identity was revealed and Wilson Fisk attempted to have him assassinated only for the shot to miss and hit Aunt May. As a result, Peter beats Fisk to within an inch of his life and threatens that if anyone he loves is ever harmed again, he will kill him.
Another example would be the Symbiote story. The Symbiote didn't make him angry and violent. It just elevated his negative traits. And considering the fact that Peter is one of the strongest characters in the Marvel Universe, his anger could lead to disaster. Anger is one of his biggest flaws and one he has to contend with every now and then.