@@tzeentch800 Nod was nuking everything...we should've done the same. Not like the Ion gun doesn't cause a lot of boom, or could cause a cataclysmic explosion of blue tiberium in a Red Zone- oh, wait
Edited for clarity. You're mostly right. While it is true that particle beams are kinetic weapons, they're actually similar to sand blasters. Yes, the individual grains of sand or particles erode the target physically, but they also heat up the target by means of lots of friction. In the end, much of the kinetic damage is turned to thermal damage at the impact site. So, while both lasers and particle guns operate under different principals, both damage their target similarly. In effect, the target itself is heated to the point where the surface melts or boils away. In the case of beams that cause explosions, you're actually heating the target so fast that the surface turns from solid to gas skipping the liquid phase. The amount of energy you need to do this is, predictably, very high, but the end result is that the impact site itself vaporizes. This means 2 things: 1, the material shot is weakened by the fact that there's less solid stuff. 2, the sudden transition of material from solid to gas means that the gas has a lot of energy and wants to expand outward. A sudden change in pressure causes a shockwave. The end effect is that the target's surface becomes a small explosive. This is why, despite lasers and particle guns having very little recoil and their..."projectiles" having very low mass, you can still result in impacts similar to if the target was shot with a conventional gun.
Funny thing is we're technically touching the technology for accelerated particles but not weaponized (yet) satellites due to a 1980s treaty (which was due to Rod of God/Canes of God kinetic energy weapons platforms).
Its called SDI (which is probably where GDI comes from) the plan was to use Energy weapons to stop Nukes from orbit, the Reagan Administration wanted to use it to deter the Soviets from launching them, but as you can see this would have escalate the Cold War and so it was scrapped. (funny part was one of the fears was that the US would develop something like the Ion Cannon to level Cities) Project Thor on the other hand was a proposed Satalite weapon that uses Tungsten Rods as Kinetic Missiles called Mijolnir (it was Show cased in COD at 1 point as Odin)
Speaking of the Cold war, there was a large number of proposed Soviet Tanks roughly the Weight of the Mammoths and Apocalypse tanks of CnC such as the IS 7 and the object 279 which was designed to survive Nukes.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 it was discarded because SDI was infeasible. the amount of power needed was not easily produced and accuracy wasn't very good. the plan originally called for nuclear bomb pumped x-ray lasers IE: literally placing nukes in space at extreme cost only to explode them to power a laser that could only focus one target and probably miss.
First, le me say welcome back Jethild. Good to see you back. This is another impressive work. For me, I like the Tiberium Wars Ion Cannon more as it is more powerful the way I see it.
Better than how it appears in Tiberium Sun- all those targeting lasers spinning in a circle that gets tighter and tighter, and then....BOOM ! Everything evaporates
Looking at the design of the TW3 Ion Cannon satellites, it may be that the eight secondary beams are used, as was said in the video, to ionize the air in the target area to create a larger explosion while the Main beam does not require them to cause damage, as it was able to do so before in TW1 and 2
Other way around. Lasers (which, fun fact is a short form for light amplification by stimilated emission of radiation) is a partical weapon as photons are perticles.
A possible explanation for the shoulder mounted Ion cannon is battery burnout. I'd imagine that even if it recharges, the battery only has so much structural tenacity to it if you're pumping that much juice through such a small thing in rapid succession. The ammo count could be the battery running out of life rather than power.
Like with the LASER video, I very much appreciate how you go the extra mile to provide the real-world science behind these concepts and actually explain them in an easy to understand manner. 10/10!
Not only do I love the thought, lore, and science that went into this video, but your visual effects are top notch! You just earned yourself a sub. Keep up the amazing work!
I gotta be honest. I actually did forgot about ya until you've popped up on my recommend feed again. I'm pretty damn happy on seeing ya again and uploading another c&c lore video. well anyways I know this comment will be drown and gone from the sea of comment section but I do hope for the best for you and I truly hope you continued on finding these tiny too large detail's of c&c universe until you've move on to the next game.
I'll be doing C&C lore videos for quite awhile. I could probably go the rest of the year doing only these kinds of videos and I'd still not get through all of the lore.
I believe the Merlin's "twirl around" might be the weapon venting heat. It is a shoulder-mounted particle accelerator, after all, and, now thinking about it, maybe radiation was a large part of why it was decommissioned. All in all, a greatly interesting video, as always.
My god your vids are great espacilly now that im playing GDI campign for the first time in my life in tib sun i am new but your vids make the game better with hard diffcilty i enjoey soooo much thank you next vid should be about nukes
I appreciate the efforts put into these videos, however, I am quite firmly of the opinion that gameplay quirks (Like weather changes in Renegade, or their extreme lacklustre power in especially Tiberian Dawn) are to be ignored as simple gameplay decisions. Same with it's inconsistency in C&C3 as you noted it fires differently in game compared to the cutscenes, yes both the Temple Prime and Scrin arrival cutscenes.
I agree with you. That's why I didn't try to explain why the weather change occurred in Renegade. Just stated that it did as part of the cannon's firing sequence. They're some things that are simply done for "gameplay reasons." In the case of the weather change, it acts as a greater visual cue for the player that an ion strike is about to occur. As well as just looking cool.
The cinematic mishaps may have been simple production oversights. Or time crunches for adding visual effects. Really makes you wonder. Which came first, the gameplay or cinematics.
@@許進曾 These aren't tungsten based cannons. These super accelerate photons at their target, which is why they are mentioned to be "kinetic". Read here : 1:25 . And we already have a machine that does this, so if we could minimize it's size and stuff it on a satellite, then yes, you could have a ion cannon.
@@doggo_woo Kinetic bombardment is not tungsten based weapon, it is a kinetic based weapon, like a usual cannon shell, but instead of a chemical propellent propelling the shell forward, the tungsten rod is pulled by the earth's own gravitational field and gain kinetic energy, hence the name "kinetic bombardment".
@@許進曾 But these do not USE tungsten rods. They litterally super charge particles up and blast them at their target. Which is why GDI never really ever needs to re-arm the damn things, they always are recharging because of all those solar panels.
Ok, we all know that the Tiberium Twilight is non-existant and all, but real question, how in the hell did GDI turn their ion cannon into a EMP + Ion combo? And, the ion control center even fired a beam up, as if they replaced the entire ion cannon defense network and turned it into a reflector network, similar to how the venoms could reflect lasers from beam cannons.
@@Cybersharky_ if I had to make a guess, I was probably very drunk when I made this comment. Tiberium twilight is most likely nod propaganda, what was I thinking...
Let me start of with nice video! Concerning the Merlin, I've got some theories on my own. Shots being limited by energy consumption maybe. Those charged particles need to be charged somehow. Also I always thought the spinning was a cooling mechanism. Love that you came up with some other theories (or if you didn't come up with them, found them). Anyway, keep up the great work!
@@Groza_Dallocort unfortunately I don't have a PC anymore, I tend to play Ps4 when I can these days. I know the radial menu and such was a bit naff of other console games, but I made it work haha
I wouldnt say particle weapons do only kinetic damage. As particles travel through the air the friction will result in decent heat buildup, thats why they light up and why you can see burns after Ion Cannon hit.
well the thing is the gdi ion cannon does not leave long term damage to the area making it uninhabitable. Nukes leave tons of radiation behind. Basically nukes are a small chernobyl incident. the effects can stay there for more than 50 years in some designs, while the ion cannon is a particle based kinetic strike weapon, which apart from being cheaper and unable to be intercepted, also leave the area clean of radiation
Whats next? I think maybe you can make a video that the black hand confessor cabal squads weapon that shoots the “Charged Particle Beam” that u can get by an upgrade Maybe the Charged Particle Beam doesn’t need an entire video since it looks like the GDI Beam And I remember you explaining me how it works on the Nod laser technology video I don’t know if you remember... anyway, awesome video as always 👍 I’m one of your first 200 subscribers And I really try to support u as hard as i can and I can’t support you anymore than subscribing and liking and sharing... keep it up❤️
In Tib Wars when Nod first uses particle beam weapons they appear to have a technological edge with GDI never having brought handheld versions to mass production. Since its significantly harder to create a very small particle beam weapon like we see in KW one can assume that the technological capability to build an ion canon type weapon is merely a matter of ressources for Nod.
The Ion Cannon keeps getting more powerful. In the first game, it was strong indeed, but lacked the area of effect while Nod had the nukes. This is compensated by airstrikes, combination of these and the Ion Cannon is deadly. Now the Ion Cannon is a massive threat. But I admit that even in Tiberian Sun GDI doesn't have an advantage over Nod, as they have their own missiles, even two kinds of them, and just as devastating. Chemical one possibly even more if targeted right. (and they steal Ion Cannon anyway if you play Nod) Ion Cannon was stronger in this game than before, but still not as strong as in third. that one is almost on par with a nuke when it comes ot area of effect, but recharges faster.
Love your lore videos! They are really informative and give a good perspective of the c&c world. I have a question: after the collapse of the Soviet Union at the start of the tiberium dawn what are your perspective on the world stage regards to nation states in europe and the rest of the world. Love to hear a input! /Mod Developer for C&C mod for Hearts of Iron 4
I think it's difficult to get a good idea on what happened between RA and Tiberian Dawn. Since it really depends on which faction you believe is the canon victor from RA. I think if the Allies are the victors then the world stage remains similar to our real world geopolitically speaking. If the Soviet Union is the victors then things get more complicated as even if Kane collapses the Soviet Union I don't think that the world stage would just go back to being like our real world. Then again personally I don't think it makes sense for Kane to collapse the Soviet Union to begin with. Would have been much easier for him to take over Africa in TD if he hadn't done that. Either way it probably warrants a video on the topic in the future.
The Alien Scrin's rift generator is an even more deadly and highly advanced super weapon, it can temporarily create a massive black hole with an extremely intense vortex moving around it, tearing nearby units and structures apart and soaking almost everything into it. As top GDI engineers on the ion cannon project had described their own superweapon as the product in the ancient world when it's compared to the Alien's.
Seeing the Ion Cannon for the first time in C&C 3 was freaking awesome. It turned it from a meh, it's okay I guess. To a real super weapon and something that's just a lot of fun to use. When I played verses AI skirmishes with my 2 other friends. We would do simultaneous triple Ion Cannon shots on one of the enemy AI's base. With luck we could wipe them out or cripple beyond repair in an instant. Which was always so good. One moment they're a fully operational Hard AI in the middle of launching an attack on one of us and in one giant flash of blue light nothing. Oh wait no look it's their harvester returning from the fields.
Wouldn't charged particle guns also generate crazy heat? Also zoids use them, they take in air from the atmosphere and then fire the particles like a fire hose.
You forgot to mention, that scrin also used particle beams in their weaponry. Most obvious - Annihilatior tripod, disintegrators and devourer tank. Their beams look like, that they're ion based. Also weapons with short waves of particles - gun walker, stormrider, unupgraded shock troopers, planetary assault carrier.
@@Jethild I've read an hour ago, that this is true for stormrider and thus, apparently, for PAC, walker and shocks. But plasma cannot be beamed, this is impossible, as I know. So, I think, that scrin beam weapons are ion based.
@@ChemFrogEngels "What the hell is that?!" "It looks like some kinda localized ion storm!" "But that is impossible!" "Tell that to the aliens!" GDI troops witnessing Scrin Storm Columns.
The destruction of the GDSS Philadelphia is kind of hilarious to me. You'd think they'd have anti-missile and anti-meteorite point defenses or something onboard.
GDI Was also shifting its priorities before the 3rd War, with its military budget having been massively slashed and those funds and resources being redirected towards Tiberium elimination and civilian infrastructure. Add to that, it had been decades since anyone heard anything out of the Brotherhood of Nod, so there probably was an onboard ASAT system on the Philadelphia originally, but it was decommissioned in favor of the cheaper, more centralized control center at Goddard
As far as I remember, the GDSS Philadelphia had anti-missile defense, but the control for it was located on earth and was deactivated by Nod troops before they launched the nuke that destroyed the space station.
@@joshg8053 That seems like an extremely stupid way to design missile defenses considering there would likely be lag between the station and the base. I guess they just wanted a reason to start the war and made up the lore explanations later. After all, it's Command and Conquer, not Peace and Chill. You'd also think Nod could have developed and deployed anti-satellite lasers and just bwap the thing out of existence.
9:32 These 8 beams may actually be lasers. Basically, their function might be to just ionize the air to create a tunnel made up of plasma. So when the actual particle beam is shot down, the tunnel ends up conducting the beam like a wire, and preventing it from spreading. This is essentially the same logic behind an electrolaser, another weapon that uses lasers to ionize air. Except an electrolaser shoots electricity instead of subatomic particles.
I think a reason that the firing sequence is faster against the scrin ships could be that the slower firing causes damage over a much larger area, and that’s not really needed against the scrin transports. GDI command is trying to destroy them quickly, assuming that a single powerful blast will do the job. They’d be right too, if the scrin ships weren’t to some degree designed to counter that strategy directly
Here's my hypothesis on the Merlin. Rather than pulling in particles from the air and potentially clogging the accelerator with dust and debris, it used pre-packaged canisters of accelerate medium that had to be replaced with each shot.
For that you would need to go to a direct control hub and have an exceptionally skilled commander to breach their defenses, that's why you gain control of the Ion Cannon in tibdawn, as a Nod commander you attacket the Ion Cannon control hub and started the storyline of Twisted Insurrection
in fact the hadron collider in Cern is rebuilt already as a defence weapon. ready to be used. and now they are planning to install the same prototype on the moon.
I remember some lore saying that Tiberium, and I think specifically blue Tiberium was instrumental in the development of Ion and other charged particle weaponry. Not sure if it was something to do with it providing enough energy to make it practical or if the weapons actually use Tiberium particles as "ammunition"
@@doggo_woo yeah, that's why I think the power supply angle is more plausible, of course same problem, eventually someone has to go replace the fuel cells but GDI's space program is pretty top notch. I'll have to see if I can remember which intel file it was in 3.
Even if the initial impact did not work out as intended, I suspect the Scrin were more than a bit surprised when closing in on a world they thought cleared of life had satellites that started to fire particle beam weapons at them and then would continue to do so on the ground.
Huh, I assumed that the Ion Cannon actually would be using some sort of laser technology; you heat up the air with a laser so the ion beam can be channeled at the target. You can probably skip that step when firing at enemy spaceships or you don't need as much energy put into the laser channel? Maybe the Portable Ion Cannon's "ammunition" is the battery life and after firing each shot you vent the heat.
when i play tiberian sun, i always like to use the ini files to modify the mammoth mark 2 to fire lasers instead of railguns (railguns have so much terrain issues), i then make the lasers light blue and pretent they are ion cannons
I gotta be honest, considering that the Brotherhood of Nod is capable of outfiting personal laser weapons and other kind of energy weapons both to infatry and vehicles, it always baffle me that the GDI arsenal remains composose of regular weapons, there are some exeptions like the Disruptor Tank, the recently mention Merlin Shoulder Monted Ion Cannon, the sonic turrets and sonic granades used by the Zone Operations Command. It kinda confuses me that they don't have something like, a Titan Walker but with a particle cannon instaed of a 120 MM cannon. Or a Mammoth tank with twin particle cannons strap on the top Great Video as alway bub, keep it up. Question: Can you answer me this question? Why did Nod phase out of their arsenal vehicles and technologies like the Subterranean APC, the Devil's Tounge flame tank that could dig under enemy bases or the Tik Tank or the Banshee? Acording to C&C 3 Database, GDI phase out much their arsenal used in the second Tib Wars and Firestorm Crysis due to founding redirection ... Wich is a sad excuse of EA to get rid of the Sci-Fi element and turn Tib Wars into middle east war simulator but at least I can usertand they remove certeain things like the walkers because in real life a walker could carry several problems like the fact they are easily spotable and if their legs are destroyed they may not be able to keep fighting. But since this is a videogame and walker are cool, I am kinda they take an step back But thing like the Hover MLSR ... I just ask, why you get rid of that? is a vehicle that is practically unaffected by terreain The Orca Bomer was replace withe the Firehawk. I don't have problems with that because it is way faster, can make sub orbital flights to lighting attacks or quick retreats and even tought it can't carpet bomd the battlefield, it is still a capable bomer, and plus it can engage enemy aircraft so it also server a support role in keeping the skies clean ... Getting rid of a combat medic toughy ... There is not excuse that is stupid. But at least they gave us a lorewise reason of why. But in the case of the Brothergood of Nod, they never gave us a reason why things like the Subterranean APC that can evade enemy defenses for lighting surprise attacks or even fast retreats wich suits Nod tactical doctrine, or the versatile Tik Tank or the Devil's Tounge that is perfect for evande enemy defenses or created distractions or make fast attacks while the main Army distracts the GDI commander away from the base. The Banshee and Vertigo in my opinion can cooexist since, the Banshee can both provide covert and support for the vertigos or even a distraction so the enemy don't notice the Vertigos decloaking until is too late Or just strap a stealht generator in a Banshee and call it a day. The cyborgs ... Well just look at Firestorm But other that the cyborgs ... It seems to me that there was no reason of why many of the Nod units of the second war ear are just gone.
GDI was repurposed as more of a clean up and peace keeping force so they have less military research than Nod despite being Richer. As for the Banshee they lossed the Tacitus so that probably includes its schematics. The subterranian vehicles were probably phased out because of constant Earthquakes caused by Tiberum or because Nod can now fight with more advanced tech against GDI so they really have no need as they have technically a firepower advantage.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 Well the Banshee was more base of the information on the Tacitus, the desing was entirely made by Nod scientist and enginieers so even tought they lost the Tacitus they should be more than capable of keep on manufacturing them even after loosimg the tacitus. The subterranean drilling vehicles ... Well I guess the subterranean Tiberiun deposits might become a real troble when moving under ground. Lorewise G.D.I Ion Stome Refugees are buil like 10 or 20 metter under the earth but never something like 40 metter because at that point there is the risk of hitting Tiberium veins, reason of why they have build in Sonic emitters to prevent Tiberium grown. That could be a reasons since that would mean subterranean movement is now more complicated than before ... But even then I still have problem beliving that the Brotherhood wouldn't find a solution for this problem if it has become so big ... So is like 50/50 to me. With the Tik Tank ... I just can't find any reason why they just ... Get rid of it, it's ability to burried itself partially to gain aditional armour and increase range made it perfectly for both siege in enemy bases and base defense, since the Tik Tank din't burried deep enought to hit Tiberium deposits so I dobout it was a reason. And considering that G.D.I replace the Titans with the Medium Predator Tank, the Tik Tank would have been a perfect equivalent if not a countermesure thanks to it's Dig in ability. The Scorpion Tank could cooexist with the Tik Tank in that yhe scorpion could have been an cheap and fats recoon unit more resiliant and powerfull than the Buggies or Attack Bikes, but when the situation demands more power or defending a key location they send in the Medium Tik Tanks. But getting rid of the Tik Tank entearily ... That is just ... Stupid in my opinion. I like the dising of the Scorpion Tank but overall ... In some aspects it seems like a downgrade to me
@@RexMK- well the Tiberium thing could be a religious thing for Nod as they see Tiberium as sacred so them destroying Vains underground is kind of out of character, also it means they can be detected by GDI above ground. The Tik Tank and Banshee thing could be a balancing thing in the part of EA but in the Lore it might mean that Nod might have simply lossed the ability to manufacture them as well, most of their stuff is experimental (or they simply find both as not sutible for their current doctrine or resource situation which happens in real life e.g France again using out dated designs for Tanks because lack of funds and Japan that though Tanks are not a good part of their Armies and the fact that the Navy wanted to get the complete funding of the government.)
@@forickgrimaldus8301 That makes more sense actually. Well yes maybe the Banshee mah have gotten a bit to expensive to keep on mass production so maybe the just either stop using them or maybe the keep some as ... Elite air support? The Tiberium thing ... Yes that sound like Nod allright.
@@Jethild Sonic weapon isn't as good as it sounds (no pun intended), their are too slow in our atmosphere, theoretically if you see someone firing at you with a sonic weapon from 2 kilometer away, it will literary take almost 6 second for the projectile to reach you. It might be a better weapon when fighting in aquatic environment since under normal condition sound travel at 1.5 km/sec (close to a modern tank shell) under water.
I would think the reason it fires in space is because Objects were coming in too quickly and they needed to fight now You'll probably just fired on a lower setting
"Nukes are barbaric and we have sworn never to use such weapons of mass destruction... Now check out our orbital Death Ray!"
And the thing is, GDI does actually have nukes. They just don't want to use them. As Director, though, I would.
Gdi watched too much star wars
Lets use nukes on a planet infested with a volatile raidoactive cyristals what could go wrong ?
@@tzeentch800 well... we did find out...
@@tzeentch800 Nod was nuking everything...we should've done the same. Not like the Ion gun doesn't cause a lot of boom, or could cause a cataclysmic explosion of blue tiberium in a Red Zone- oh, wait
Edited for clarity.
You're mostly right. While it is true that particle beams are kinetic weapons, they're actually similar to sand blasters. Yes, the individual grains of sand or particles erode the target physically, but they also heat up the target by means of lots of friction. In the end, much of the kinetic damage is turned to thermal damage at the impact site. So, while both lasers and particle guns operate under different principals, both damage their target similarly. In effect, the target itself is heated to the point where the surface melts or boils away. In the case of beams that cause explosions, you're actually heating the target so fast that the surface turns from solid to gas skipping the liquid phase. The amount of energy you need to do this is, predictably, very high, but the end result is that the impact site itself vaporizes. This means 2 things:
1, the material shot is weakened by the fact that there's less solid stuff.
2, the sudden transition of material from solid to gas means that the gas has a lot of energy and wants to expand outward. A sudden change in pressure causes a shockwave.
The end effect is that the target's surface becomes a small explosive. This is why, despite lasers and particle guns having very little recoil and their..."projectiles" having very low mass, you can still result in impacts similar to if the target was shot with a conventional gun.
this exploding layer of gas however forms a very effective barrier preventing the layer below from taking more damage, kinda like a ablative shield.
There's so much lore that I never knew or it was to dense for me to read, thank you for your work making this great stuff available to all
" SILOS FULL "
Funny thing is we're technically touching the technology for accelerated particles but not weaponized (yet) satellites due to a 1980s treaty (which was due to Rod of God/Canes of God kinetic energy weapons platforms).
Its called SDI (which is probably where GDI comes from) the plan was to use Energy weapons to stop Nukes from orbit, the Reagan Administration wanted to use it to deter the Soviets from launching them, but as you can see this would have escalate the Cold War and so it was scrapped. (funny part was one of the fears was that the US would develop something like the Ion Cannon to level Cities)
Project Thor on the other hand was a proposed Satalite weapon that uses Tungsten Rods as Kinetic Missiles called Mijolnir (it was Show cased in COD at 1 point as Odin)
Speaking of the Cold war, there was a large number of proposed Soviet Tanks roughly the Weight of the Mammoths and Apocalypse tanks of CnC such as the IS 7 and the object 279 which was designed to survive Nukes.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 it was discarded because SDI was infeasible. the amount of power needed was not easily produced and accuracy wasn't very good. the plan originally called for nuclear bomb pumped x-ray lasers IE: literally placing nukes in space at extreme cost only to explode them to power a laser that could only focus one target and probably miss.
@@mxn1948 That's more or less what's used for ship to ship combat in the Honor Harrington books.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 to add: SDI stood for Strategic Defense Initiative and was also nicknamed project Starwars
came for C&C lore, got a free physix lesson in the bundle.
love these videos. :)
*physics
So glad there are still people who talk about Command and Conquer lore.
15:32 "Formidable cyborgs"
-Gets taken out by turrets
I know they are pretty good but the timing he said it xd
"Ion Cannon ready!"
"Ion Cannon Activated"
@@hasyim4051 Nod: ( terrified screaming )
@@Chino56751 we are victorious.
@@kirbi4266 ( Shiny GDI logo spins )
@@Chino56751 *happy GDI noises*
First, le me say welcome back Jethild. Good to see you back. This is another impressive work. For me, I like the Tiberium Wars Ion Cannon more as it is more powerful the way I see it.
Better than how it appears in Tiberium Sun- all those targeting lasers spinning in a circle that gets tighter and tighter, and then....BOOM ! Everything evaporates
@@Chino56751 i did not understand the physics of that. but it felt good when i was 11
@@ionelstoica7082 Circling lasers paint the target, while scorching and damaging it, so its softening for the main blast
Looking at the design of the TW3 Ion Cannon satellites, it may be that the eight secondary beams are used, as was said in the video, to ionize the air in the target area to create a larger explosion while the Main beam does not require them to cause damage, as it was able to do so before in TW1 and 2
Thank you sir, love the lore
Came for the amazing lore as usual, learned that Particle canons/beams are not lazers lol
Other way around. Lasers (which, fun fact is a short form for light amplification by stimilated emission of radiation) is a partical weapon as photons are perticles.
A possible explanation for the shoulder mounted Ion cannon is battery burnout. I'd imagine that even if it recharges, the battery only has so much structural tenacity to it if you're pumping that much juice through such a small thing in rapid succession. The ammo count could be the battery running out of life rather than power.
I fixed my old laptop today and the first thing I'm installing is the whole CnC games
Start with cnc generals
Dude I'm so glad you make these videos, I've been looking for good command and conquer lore for years.
The true definition of " Death from above !! "
When I was really young, I thought that the Ion cannon threw a bunch of smurfs at the speed of light and thats why the beam was blue. lol
I thought the scrin decimator or whatever (I haven’t played in months I forgot what unit it was) fired green grapes
Like with the LASER video, I very much appreciate how you go the extra mile to provide the real-world science behind these concepts and actually explain them in an easy to understand manner. 10/10!
Not only do I love the thought, lore, and science that went into this video, but your visual effects are top notch! You just earned yourself a sub. Keep up the amazing work!
I gotta be honest. I actually did forgot about ya until you've popped up on my recommend feed again.
I'm pretty damn happy on seeing ya again and uploading another c&c lore video.
well anyways I know this comment will be drown and gone from the sea of comment section but I do hope for the best for you and I truly hope you continued on finding these tiny too large detail's of c&c universe until you've move on to the next game.
I'll be doing C&C lore videos for quite awhile. I could probably go the rest of the year doing only these kinds of videos and I'd still not get through all of the lore.
I always wondered what the actual difference was, because they go of roughly the same principle of acceleration. Makes sense! 😁👌
i love these videos thanks for making them
I believe that the things that are spinning, during the recharge cycle of the portable ion weapon, might be heat sinks or something simmilar.
I believe the Merlin's "twirl around" might be the weapon venting heat. It is a shoulder-mounted particle accelerator, after all, and, now thinking about it, maybe radiation was a large part of why it was decommissioned.
All in all, a greatly interesting video, as always.
These are very well made and edited, not to mention the information and details. Good work!
You put more love for the CnC saga into one video than ea put into every game since Tiberian Sun.
finaly a new jethild video. and of very high quality as always. great work again :)
Love your channels content buddy
My god your vids are great espacilly now that im playing GDI campign for the first time in my life in tib sun i am new but your vids make the game better with hard diffcilty i enjoey soooo much thank you next vid should be about nukes
Short but great. I love it
I appreciate the efforts put into these videos, however, I am quite firmly of the opinion that gameplay quirks (Like weather changes in Renegade, or their extreme lacklustre power in especially Tiberian Dawn) are to be ignored as simple gameplay decisions. Same with it's inconsistency in C&C3 as you noted it fires differently in game compared to the cutscenes, yes both the Temple Prime and Scrin arrival cutscenes.
I agree with you. That's why I didn't try to explain why the weather change occurred in Renegade. Just stated that it did as part of the cannon's firing sequence. They're some things that are simply done for "gameplay reasons." In the case of the weather change, it acts as a greater visual cue for the player that an ion strike is about to occur. As well as just looking cool.
The cinematic mishaps may have been simple production oversights. Or time crunches for adding visual effects. Really makes you wonder. Which came first, the gameplay or cinematics.
Once again another perfect video! Been waiting for a new one!
Honestly, I love the idea of orbital ion cannons.
Really good video too
Ion cannons could exist IRL too, except there's a law preventing the development of space based weapons.
@@doggo_woo You dont need that you just need a tungsten rod to perform orbital kinetic bombardment.
@@許進曾 These aren't tungsten based cannons. These super accelerate photons at their target, which is why they are mentioned to be "kinetic". Read here : 1:25 . And we already have a machine that does this, so if we could minimize it's size and stuff it on a satellite, then yes, you could have a ion cannon.
@@doggo_woo Kinetic bombardment is not tungsten based weapon, it is a kinetic based weapon, like a usual cannon shell, but instead of a chemical propellent propelling the shell forward, the tungsten rod is pulled by the earth's own gravitational field and gain kinetic energy, hence the name "kinetic bombardment".
@@許進曾 But these do not USE tungsten rods. They litterally super charge particles up and blast them at their target. Which is why GDI never really ever needs to re-arm the damn things, they always are recharging because of all those solar panels.
Ok, we all know that the Tiberium Twilight is non-existant and all, but real question, how in the hell did GDI turn their ion cannon into a EMP + Ion combo? And, the ion control center even fired a beam up, as if they replaced the entire ion cannon defense network and turned it into a reflector network, similar to how the venoms could reflect lasers from beam cannons.
@Carson Blok sounds like a NOD propaganda cartoon
@@Cybersharky_ if I had to make a guess, I was probably very drunk when I made this comment. Tiberium twilight is most likely nod propaganda, what was I thinking...
Let me start of with nice video! Concerning the Merlin, I've got some theories on my own. Shots being limited by energy consumption maybe. Those charged particles need to be charged somehow. Also I always thought the spinning was a cooling mechanism. Love that you came up with some other theories (or if you didn't come up with them, found them). Anyway, keep up the great work!
Unlimited ammo doesn't mean unlimited battery charge.
What if it's an interpretation of barrel life? That's another explanation for having an ammo count.
Oh how I wish they'd remaster these games.
Been waiting for more videos. Brilliant
... I think I have good news.
Meaning?
@@RC-qv9in Command & Conquer 1 Tiberium Dawn and Command & Conquer Red Alert have a remake on Steam
@@Groza_Dallocort unfortunately I don't have a PC anymore, I tend to play Ps4 when I can these days.
I know the radial menu and such was a bit naff of other console games, but I made it work haha
Thanks
I love your content. Well displayed and explained.
This Channel is gold
You are amazing, I love these videos, please keep going.
Hungry for more
2021 starts very nicely
Can you please do a video on Nod Stealth and Cloaking technology.
I do plan to do a video on Nod stealth technology in the future.
After having played through a few times, I still find there's plenty I do not know, and thank you for your videos.
I wouldnt say particle weapons do only kinetic damage. As particles travel through the air the friction will result in decent heat buildup, thats why they light up and why you can see burns after Ion Cannon hit.
Thanks man very EPIC
"We don't use nukes."
"In other news, we are happy to announce our new and inavative weapon of mass destruction! The Ion Cannon!"
well the thing is the gdi ion cannon does not leave long term damage to the area making it uninhabitable. Nukes leave tons of radiation behind. Basically nukes are a small chernobyl incident. the effects can stay there for more than 50 years in some designs, while the ion cannon is a particle based kinetic strike weapon, which apart from being cheaper and unable to be intercepted, also leave the area clean of radiation
Excellent
Whats next? I think maybe you can make a video that the black hand confessor cabal squads weapon that shoots the “Charged Particle Beam” that u can get by an upgrade
Maybe the Charged Particle Beam doesn’t need an entire video since it looks like the GDI Beam
And I remember you explaining me how it works on the Nod laser technology video I don’t know if you remember...
anyway, awesome video as always 👍
I’m one of your first 200 subscribers And I really try to support u as hard as i can and I can’t support you anymore than subscribing and liking and sharing... keep it up❤️
Please do more lore videos on other C&C weapons!
I love these vids
In Tib Wars when Nod first uses particle beam weapons they appear to have a technological edge with GDI never having brought handheld versions to mass production. Since its significantly harder to create a very small particle beam weapon like we see in KW one can assume that the technological capability to build an ion canon type weapon is merely a matter of ressources for Nod.
Renegade has the Portable Ion Cannon.
Beacon*
Coming back to this in 2024 and let me just say the Generals Evolution mod has gorgeous Particle Cannon effects.
The Ion Cannon keeps getting more powerful. In the first game, it was strong indeed, but lacked the area of effect while Nod had the nukes. This is compensated by airstrikes, combination of these and the Ion Cannon is deadly. Now the Ion Cannon is a massive threat.
But I admit that even in Tiberian Sun GDI doesn't have an advantage over Nod, as they have their own missiles, even two kinds of them, and just as devastating. Chemical one possibly even more if targeted right. (and they steal Ion Cannon anyway if you play Nod) Ion Cannon was stronger in this game than before, but still not as strong as in third. that one is almost on par with a nuke when it comes ot area of effect, but recharges faster.
Everybody gangsta until you hear thunder and see the hair on your arms start to stand up.
You should do rail weapon for your next videos.
Love your lore videos! They are really informative and give a good perspective of the c&c world.
I have a question: after the collapse of the Soviet Union at the start of the tiberium dawn what are your perspective on the world stage regards to nation states in europe and the rest of the world. Love to hear a input!
/Mod Developer for C&C mod for Hearts of Iron 4
I think it's difficult to get a good idea on what happened between RA and Tiberian Dawn. Since it really depends on which faction you believe is the canon victor from RA. I think if the Allies are the victors then the world stage remains similar to our real world geopolitically speaking. If the Soviet Union is the victors then things get more complicated as even if Kane collapses the Soviet Union I don't think that the world stage would just go back to being like our real world. Then again personally I don't think it makes sense for Kane to collapse the Soviet Union to begin with. Would have been much easier for him to take over Africa in TD if he hadn't done that.
Either way it probably warrants a video on the topic in the future.
4:41 "which saw gdi and nod forces, engaged in Mortal Kombat"
ROUND 1
FIGHT!!!
Finally, lore time
4:17 - Best ending credits.
Thank you, I love the ion cannon, most fun superweapon ever.
(Although not a big roster, fun idea: superweapons in video games)
I do love me some C&C lore. Anyone else here play RenegadeX? Lol
I have renegade x.
The Alien Scrin's rift generator is an even more deadly and highly advanced super weapon, it can temporarily create a massive black hole with an extremely intense vortex moving around it, tearing nearby units and structures apart and soaking almost everything into it. As top GDI engineers on the ion cannon project had described their own superweapon as the product in the ancient world when it's compared to the Alien's.
Seeing the Ion Cannon for the first time in C&C 3 was freaking awesome. It turned it from a meh, it's okay I guess. To a real super weapon and something that's just a lot of fun to use.
When I played verses AI skirmishes with my 2 other friends. We would do simultaneous triple Ion Cannon shots on one of the enemy AI's base. With luck we could wipe them out or cripple beyond repair in an instant. Which was always so good.
One moment they're a fully operational Hard AI in the middle of launching an attack on one of us and in one giant flash of blue light nothing. Oh wait no look it's their harvester returning from the fields.
Wouldn't charged particle guns also generate crazy heat?
Also zoids use them, they take in air from the atmosphere and then fire the particles like a fire hose.
hot damn, i'm trying to study but here i am learning about particle beam weapons from a game💀
these videos are too damn interesting
You forgot to mention, that scrin also used particle beams in their weaponry. Most obvious - Annihilatior tripod, disintegrators and devourer tank. Their beams look like, that they're ion based. Also weapons with short waves of particles - gun walker, stormrider, unupgraded shock troopers, planetary assault carrier.
I was always under the impression that the Scrin weapons were primarily plasma based, including their beam weapons.
@@Jethild I've read an hour ago, that this is true for stormrider and thus, apparently, for PAC, walker and shocks. But plasma cannot be beamed, this is impossible, as I know. So, I think, that scrin beam weapons are ion based.
@@ChemFrogEngels Interesting. I'll have to look into it more when I get around to doing more videos on the Scrin.
@@ChemFrogEngels
"What the hell is that?!"
"It looks like some kinda localized ion storm!"
"But that is impossible!"
"Tell that to the aliens!"
GDI troops witnessing Scrin Storm Columns.
You are great man; im so thankful that this *dead* community has such a talented and passionate personality.
The destruction of the GDSS Philadelphia is kind of hilarious to me.
You'd think they'd have anti-missile and anti-meteorite point defenses or something onboard.
Nop as far as i can remember a lot of control and i think even somebackup was on the ground.
Also hubris in believing the ion cannons where enough.
GDI Was also shifting its priorities before the 3rd War, with its military budget having been massively slashed and those funds and resources being redirected towards Tiberium elimination and civilian infrastructure. Add to that, it had been decades since anyone heard anything out of the Brotherhood of Nod, so there probably was an onboard ASAT system on the Philadelphia originally, but it was decommissioned in favor of the cheaper, more centralized control center at Goddard
Missile used their stealth tech and kane blessed it, solved.
As far as I remember, the GDSS Philadelphia had anti-missile defense, but the control for it was located on earth and was deactivated by Nod troops before they launched the nuke that destroyed the space station.
@@joshg8053 That seems like an extremely stupid way to design missile defenses considering there would likely be lag between the station and the base.
I guess they just wanted a reason to start the war and made up the lore explanations later. After all, it's Command and Conquer, not Peace and Chill.
You'd also think Nod could have developed and deployed anti-satellite lasers and just bwap the thing out of existence.
that Ion Cannon explosion at the end was so satisfying XD i love to use it especially since it's so brutal
0 dislikes and if someone ruins it he is not a human
Looks like there are 8 nonhumans. 😱
@@lcoop9351looks that they are animals or bugs
Good!
9:32 These 8 beams may actually be lasers. Basically, their function might be to just ionize the air to create a tunnel made up of plasma. So when the actual particle beam is shot down, the tunnel ends up conducting the beam like a wire, and preventing it from spreading. This is essentially the same logic behind an electrolaser, another weapon that uses lasers to ionize air. Except an electrolaser shoots electricity instead of subatomic particles.
I think a reason that the firing sequence is faster against the scrin ships could be that the slower firing causes damage over a much larger area, and that’s not really needed against the scrin transports. GDI command is trying to destroy them quickly, assuming that a single powerful blast will do the job. They’d be right too, if the scrin ships weren’t to some degree designed to counter that strategy directly
not just that, there is no air to ionize in space so no need to use the smaller beams to prepare the air beforehand
Here's my hypothesis on the Merlin.
Rather than pulling in particles from the air and potentially clogging the accelerator with dust and debris, it used pre-packaged canisters of accelerate medium that had to be replaced with each shot.
Nice ion canon you have there GDI be a shame if someone could hack it...
Leave it to some Nod creeper to do it.
For that you would need to go to a direct control hub and have an exceptionally skilled commander to breach their defenses, that's why you gain control of the Ion Cannon in tibdawn, as a Nod commander you attacket the Ion Cannon control hub and started the storyline of Twisted Insurrection
in fact the hadron collider in Cern is rebuilt already as a defence weapon. ready to be used. and now they are planning to install the same prototype on the moon.
So, basically, the Partical Cannon is a Particle Shotgun
I remember some lore saying that Tiberium, and I think specifically blue Tiberium was instrumental in the development of Ion and other charged particle weaponry. Not sure if it was something to do with it providing enough energy to make it practical or if the weapons actually use Tiberium particles as "ammunition"
If that were true, GDI would have to regularly send tiberium to space to reload their Ion Cannons. Not very practical if you ask me.
@@doggo_woo yeah, that's why I think the power supply angle is more plausible, of course same problem, eventually someone has to go replace the fuel cells but GDI's space program is pretty top notch. I'll have to see if I can remember which intel file it was in 3.
@@lordfrostwind3151 Blue tiberium was used to develop sonic tech, which would then be able to detonate even more tiberium.
Even if the initial impact did not work out as intended, I suspect the Scrin were more than a bit surprised when closing in on a world they thought cleared of life had satellites that started to fire particle beam weapons at them and then would continue to do so on the ground.
Huh, I assumed that the Ion Cannon actually would be using some sort of laser technology; you heat up the air with a laser so the ion beam can be channeled at the target. You can probably skip that step when firing at enemy spaceships or you don't need as much energy put into the laser channel?
Maybe the Portable Ion Cannon's "ammunition" is the battery life and after firing each shot you vent the heat.
Honestly we need a Commando variant carrying the Merlin and Godsend, maybe a Subfaction focused on Ion Technology Advancement.
Kontent about GDI tiberium dawn rocket technology please ? Mammoth tanks, advanced guard tower, orcas.
Yes I have plans for videos for some of the topics you mentioned.
@@Jethild nice man. I'll be waiting. Btw great kontent u have.
*RA3 Proton Collider is the same, with chain reaction, built on Earth, and with slower particles instead*
when i play tiberian sun, i always like to use the ini files to modify the mammoth mark 2 to fire lasers instead of railguns (railguns have so much terrain issues), i then make the lasers light blue and pretent they are ion cannons
1:55
Thanks for showing off the sick looking pipe lol
That was badass to destroy the philly station like that..😯
ironic how every tiberium war was ended by an ion cannon to the same temple.....
Wasn't Tib War 2 ended with a pole through Kane's chest in a pyramid?
wait there are more than one ion cannons?
4:45 I hate that I can't stop thinking about that.
Hmm is it LOIC? (Low Orbit Ion Cannon)
I gotta be honest, considering that the Brotherhood of Nod is capable of outfiting personal laser weapons and other kind of energy weapons both to infatry and vehicles, it always baffle me that the GDI arsenal remains composose of regular weapons, there are some exeptions like the Disruptor Tank, the recently mention Merlin Shoulder Monted Ion Cannon, the sonic turrets and sonic granades used by the Zone Operations Command.
It kinda confuses me that they don't have something like, a Titan Walker but with a particle cannon instaed of a 120 MM cannon.
Or a Mammoth tank with twin particle cannons strap on the top
Great Video as alway bub, keep it up.
Question: Can you answer me this question? Why did Nod phase out of their arsenal vehicles and technologies like the Subterranean APC, the Devil's Tounge flame tank that could dig under enemy bases or the Tik Tank or the Banshee?
Acording to C&C 3 Database, GDI phase out much their arsenal used in the second Tib Wars and Firestorm Crysis due to founding redirection ... Wich is a sad excuse of EA to get rid of the Sci-Fi element and turn Tib Wars into middle east war simulator but at least I can usertand they remove certeain things like the walkers because in real life a walker could carry several problems like the fact they are easily spotable and if their legs are destroyed they may not be able to keep fighting. But since this is a videogame and walker are cool, I am kinda they take an step back
But thing like the Hover MLSR ... I just ask, why you get rid of that? is a vehicle that is practically unaffected by terreain
The Orca Bomer was replace withe the Firehawk. I don't have problems with that because it is way faster, can make sub orbital flights to lighting attacks or quick retreats and even tought it can't carpet bomd the battlefield, it is still a capable bomer, and plus it can engage enemy aircraft so it also server a support role in keeping the skies clean
... Getting rid of a combat medic toughy ... There is not excuse that is stupid.
But at least they gave us a lorewise reason of why.
But in the case of the Brothergood of Nod, they never gave us a reason why things like the Subterranean APC that can evade enemy defenses for lighting surprise attacks or even fast retreats wich suits Nod tactical doctrine, or the versatile Tik Tank or the Devil's Tounge that is perfect for evande enemy defenses or created distractions or make fast attacks while the main Army distracts the GDI commander away from the base.
The Banshee and Vertigo in my opinion can cooexist since, the Banshee can both provide covert and support for the vertigos or even a distraction so the enemy don't notice the Vertigos decloaking until is too late
Or just strap a stealht generator in a Banshee and call it a day.
The cyborgs ... Well just look at Firestorm
But other that the cyborgs ... It seems to me that there was no reason of why many of the Nod units of the second war ear are just gone.
GDI was repurposed as more of a clean up and peace keeping force so they have less military research than Nod despite being Richer.
As for the Banshee they lossed the Tacitus so that probably includes its schematics.
The subterranian vehicles were probably phased out because of constant Earthquakes caused by Tiberum or because Nod can now fight with more advanced tech against GDI so they really have no need as they have technically a firepower advantage.
@@forickgrimaldus8301 Well the Banshee was more base of the information on the Tacitus, the desing was entirely made by Nod scientist and enginieers so even tought they lost the Tacitus they should be more than capable of keep on manufacturing them even after loosimg the tacitus.
The subterranean drilling vehicles ... Well I guess the subterranean Tiberiun deposits might become a real troble when moving under ground.
Lorewise G.D.I Ion Stome Refugees are buil like 10 or 20 metter under the earth but never something like 40 metter because at that point there is the risk of hitting Tiberium veins, reason of why they have build in Sonic emitters to prevent Tiberium grown.
That could be a reasons since that would mean subterranean movement is now more complicated than before ... But even then I still have problem beliving that the Brotherhood wouldn't find a solution for this problem if it has become so big ... So is like 50/50 to me.
With the Tik Tank ... I just can't find any reason why they just ... Get rid of it, it's ability to burried itself partially to gain aditional armour and increase range made it perfectly for both siege in enemy bases and base defense, since the Tik Tank din't burried deep enought to hit Tiberium deposits so I dobout it was a reason.
And considering that G.D.I replace the Titans with the Medium Predator Tank, the Tik Tank would have been a perfect equivalent if not a countermesure thanks to it's Dig in ability.
The Scorpion Tank could cooexist with the Tik Tank in that yhe scorpion could have been an cheap and fats recoon unit more resiliant and powerfull than the Buggies or Attack Bikes, but when the situation demands more power or defending a key location they send in the Medium Tik Tanks.
But getting rid of the Tik Tank entearily ... That is just ... Stupid in my opinion.
I like the dising of the Scorpion Tank but overall ... In some aspects it seems like a downgrade to me
@@RexMK- well the Tiberium thing could be a religious thing for Nod as they see Tiberium as sacred so them destroying Vains underground is kind of out of character, also it means they can be detected by GDI above ground.
The Tik Tank and Banshee thing could be a balancing thing in the part of EA but in the Lore it might mean that Nod might have simply lossed the ability to manufacture them as well, most of their stuff is experimental (or they simply find both as not sutible for their current doctrine or resource situation which happens in real life e.g France again using out dated designs for Tanks because lack of funds and Japan that though Tanks are not a good part of their Armies and the fact that the Navy wanted to get the complete funding of the government.)
@@forickgrimaldus8301 That makes more sense actually.
Well yes maybe the Banshee mah have gotten a bit to expensive to keep on mass production so maybe the just either stop using them or maybe the keep some as ... Elite air support?
The Tiberium thing ... Yes that sound like Nod allright.
@@RexMK- speaking of using out dated equipment as an elite, France actually did this to some of their WW1 tanks during WW2.
This is making me want to play Renegade.
I wonder if the reason nod hasn't built ion cannons is because GDI would probably shoot them down before there is anychance to use them.
Down With GDI!
arent there ZOKOM troops with beam weapons aswell? Also the Epic unit
ZOCOM troops and the MARV use sonic weapons. I did a video covering that technology already.
@@Jethild Sonic weapon isn't as good as it sounds (no pun intended), their are too slow in our atmosphere, theoretically if you see someone firing at you with a sonic weapon from 2 kilometer away, it will literary take almost 6 second for the projectile to reach you. It might be a better weapon when fighting in aquatic environment since under normal condition sound travel at 1.5 km/sec (close to a modern tank shell) under water.
I would think the reason it fires in space is because Objects were coming in too quickly and they needed to fight now You'll probably just fired on a lower setting
Minor quibble about physics: Photons DO have mass! It's just very very very very very very very very very small.
1:27, technically it can electrocute as well due to the particles being charged
whatabout the generals Particle cannon?
This video was just focused on the weapons in the Tiberium universe/timeline.
@@Jethild could you make a video about the Generals particle cannon?
6 dislikes are from fanatics of Brotherhood
WE ARE THE HAND OF NOD!