@@FlamingZelda3 Not against Zain, since this decade started they're like 2-5 million in Zain's favor, and Hbox's 2 were in 2022 which has been his only good year post-quarantine to date, but that was mainly because he was farming Jmook
@steamysoles chillindude said in the doc that they thought that ganon was the absolute best character at first. so yeah, someone coming along and saying yoshi could win is not too alien.
I wish the competitive scene of other games were like this. Other games have elite crybabies who feel threatened when someone of high skill tries to join their scene.
@@CommandoBlack123 I understand why you wouldn’t wanna help out your competition especially when money is on the line. Like, Federer and Nadal probably aren’t gonna run a bunch of scrimmages to help each other “figure out the matchup.” But as a spectator, it’s awesome for us.
@@SnackMuayTbf that's a bit different, it's in Zains best interest to get better at a losing matchup However Zain, Cody, and Hbox have been playing friendlies on stream, both of them beat Hbox so that's cool to see
Didn't realize it has been so long since a Zain win on amsa. That was eye opening. Mango Zain is always so depressing to see. The wins are so sweet but going into the set you know what most likely will happen
I really wish he would just pick up a different character, idk who it would be but it has to be someone else. Marth just isn't working and will never work.
It stinks because Mango Zain is normally always close the first game, which Mango tends to lose, and then after a game 2 loss you kinda figure its over.
@@shady8045 Nah I feel like Zain can 100% do it with Marth against Amsa. He just needs to dial into the MU more, which he recently has made a primary goal.
@@ShadowForce44 you have a point. After all Zain got consistent against Axe so history could very well repeat itself. In fact I struggle to see why that isn’t a safe bet as the situations are pretty similar imo.
Hbox says it himself, he works of his opponents mistakes. Im a way hbox is the floor of the top competition, your game has to be perfect eneugh to face hbox consistantly. If hbox grows the everyone elses consistancy has to rise eneugh to compensate
We had the 5 Gods, Now we have the Four horsemen. Mango and Amsa still running strong despite their age, having to compete with the top of newer blood, it's amazing. we just need one more to climb, Aklo, Junebug, Soonsay, Hbox even. The 2nd 5 Gods era of Melee would be as amazing as the first. For now however, it's just the four horsemen.
Some old dudes are crazy good at the games they play. Look at SSF2T for proof. Aging will weaken them but at a much slower rate for gaming than a lot of other competitions.
Yeah haha I just used to hear about gaming careers dying because players can't keep up when their like 25-26 or so. But if anyone plays league like faker is almost 30 and still one of the best players in the world.
People retire pretty young from FPS games, but fighting games don't follow the same trend. You got some real old heads like Daigo Umehara (43 years old) still playing at a high level even in new games
This is so well done lol. I think the only way this video could be better would be if the end of the video perfectly looped back into the beginning of the video
Can we all agree to give them a new name or title for the sake of a story to attract people into the scene? Like the Modern Gods of Melee, the 4 Emperors or Warlods of Melee, or the Apostles of Melee. Post-Slippi Melee Gods. We gotta find some shit. Some cool shit. I guarantee it will do WONDERS for the scene, if we can just agree on something.
Ngl as a spectator I always thought the 5 gods of melee thing was kinda corny and lame, like if we can call them anything other than gods this time I would be down for it
I think the reason people don't like Cody is that he (not a crowd favorite) consistently beats amsa (who is very much a crowd favorite). And plus, who would ever cheer for Fox over Yoshi?
ppl have disliked him for a long time before that, i think hes just got sweaty loser tryhard vibes, which sounds like it should apply to everyone in the melee community lol but honestly i think hes a lot more chill than he was a few years ago so maybe rn what you said is true
@shady8045 Yoshi has always had potential based on TAS videos and analysis, the thing is that no one thought that anyone was capable of actually pulling the tech off on a practical level at the time until Amsa came along.
@@shady8045 Also, are you really going to discredit everything Amsa has to do to even get a Major in what was previously thought to be a Low Tier character?
Loved the video and just subbed. IMO this channel is on pace to be a modern day grsmash with well edited stream highlights, mini video essays like this, and tourney highlights featuring unique gameplay. The only thing I think this channel doesn't do in comparison to prime grsmash is top 10___ in melee/ greatest _____ in melee type videos ( which may/may not work in modern day youtube). Can't wait to see what videos you make next keep it up!!
this style of narration with no speaking and using simple captions to provide context for clips that speak louder than words would is a really appealing and interesting way to make a video and it honestly kept my attention better than the average voice would
I'd say it's still the same as Summer rankings, although Mango and Cody are a bit closer than when that occurred. I don't think aMSa can secure No. 1 from Zain, but if he were to put on a show these last few months he might be able to outdo Cody and Mango
Based off the thumbnail I thought this was about the 4 best characters in the game not the 4 best players so all I was thinking about as I clicked on it was “YOSHI?!?”
Before anyone says anything about the man, Hbox across 2023 and 2024 has a pretty solid winning record on Mang0, is pretty even with aMSa, is getting beat into the ground by Zain, and was on a loss streak against Cody until Hbox double eliminated him at Collision (Where he lost to Zain 2-3 in grand finals afterwards, wow it all adds up still)
He's in contention as the most technical character in the game, and he has a 60/40 matchup with the most popular character on the game, very unfortunate but it makes sense. He also plays differently compared to the rest which makes doing secondaries harder.
the fact amsa has lost to cody so much in gf too must be ultra mental blocking for him too, though I think theyre all kinda in that seat with each other
I like how you need to point out that Mango does well against Fox when the other 3 do just as well. But you're right,, the Mango - Cody matchup is highly in Mango's favor, even though Cody is still improving at it
One thing I love about melee is that the crowds are always way more hype than smash ultimate. All of them really care about melee way more than ultimate players care about ultimate.
Just watched GRsmash's recent video on Isai, and since he rightfully achieved #1 in 64, imagine if he came back to melee and actually tried. Highly doubt he would but a man can dream.
What does the relationship across the middle look like? Fox vs Marth and Yoshi vs Falco. I’ve only heard rumours that Marth counters Fox due to disjoints.
IMO Marth beats Fox, but Cody beats Marth. He's so ahead of the meta, it really looks like a whole different matchup, one where Marths get edgeguarded twice as often and kill half as fast.
Get a decent microphone and add a voice over to you be so good at making a full scale documentery, you have potential in making videos this is really good
Total fuckin' greenhorn when it comes to Melee. Is this an instance of the characters they pick having a strong RPS against each other, or is it more on the player end?
I am going to guess that of everyone that reads this comment no one else will feel the sentiment that, of all of these losing streaks, Cody to Mango makes me the most sad. I'm a fox lover, more then anything in melee I want to see a fox get good enough that they can maintain rank 1 multiple years in a row. I do *not* want to see the top 10 get consumed by foxes (which honestly in modern melee there are too many top 10 foxes.. wasn't always that way) but I do want to see a single fox main truly sit the melee thrown and long term dominate.
Thats respectable but most of us don’t want to see the most privileged and easy character succeed. People say you need tech skills and he is not consistent but it’s no issue when you always play melee since you stay sharp
@@TheBeggies95 See I don’t think he’s relatively as free or privileged as most youtube comments act like he is. I haven’t played since Covid granted, but I’ve been watching melee since 2012 and it always seemed to me like a game where just being 1% more skilled then your opponent meant you typically won much more often, terrible matchups excluded. The idea that “fox destroys other characters but also gets destroyed just as hard” is very true imo, and why even someone as insanely good as Cody couldn’t maintain #1 (most likely) and even during his dominant period was getting upset by Samus’s and DK’s. I know for a fact I’ve heard Mang0 say on stream that at top level there is no such thing as an easy character, and I think the proof is in the results that in 23 years of melee, the #1 player has for the majority been a floatier character. I mean if the character really is so busted how has it been so hard even with all the representation for a fox to get #1? Again not saying he isn’t privileged, I just think it’s not be as large a margin compared to other top tiers as others say it is. Also, obviously, this is just my opinion. Someone could mention the ratio of foxes to other characters in the top 100 as a counterpoint (which imo is due to how fun fox is mainly, though I do wish there was more diversity). Either way, just a different POV.
Wow I didn't know there was such a severe powerstruggle between 4 players with 4 characters that's peak melee
There’s also hbox playing puff who loses to all 4 but pulls out wins just often enough to make these guys get nervous.
@@FlamingZelda3 Not against Zain, since this decade started they're like 2-5 million in Zain's favor, and Hbox's 2 were in 2022 which has been his only good year post-quarantine to date, but that was mainly because he was farming Jmook
Hbox doesn't lose against mang0 @@FlamingZelda3
@@Michael-hc2hp2-5 million is cap
@@FlamingZelda3Been his specialty for years, he’ll have a losing matchup to the rest of the top 5, but becomes a raid boss on the final day.
Go back to 2002 and tell people a Yoshi main would be a top 5 player in the world.
he was already noticed by everyone, but he was just another competent low tier hero, nothing more. 10 years later tho... @steamysoles
go back to 2002 and tell people this game will still be played in 2024
@@trueblueryu5713 top 3 player imho
@steamysoles chillindude said in the doc that they thought that ganon was the absolute best character at first. so yeah, someone coming along and saying yoshi could win is not too alien.
@steamysolesain’t no way no one called you out on that username and profile pic
update - mango faced zain in a first to 10 and lost 10 straight games 💀
Came back to this video just to check if someone would mention it.
Sometimes you go out like a buster lol
That's until they face the leader of the bunch.
And they know him well.
He's finally back... to kick some tail.
And his name is…. CarlDaLord *the crowd cheers wildly*
Junebug?
@@CalvinWiersum No
This is good enough, Welcome back Melee Gods.
fr this feels like a five gods kind of scenario
Hbox would be the 5th God
the titans of melee
Not even close.
@@DTTW54 you're right, unlike the 5 gods it feels evenly matched between them
Mute City jump scare
Its my fav stage so this its gold
@@BrownWarpwario
That set also had them at 5 stocks instead of 4 lol
What's amazing is Cody really wants to fly aMSa to his house to lab out the matchup with him. The guy just wants good Melee :D
The same thing with Amsa and Zain. At Eggdog they played friendlies for hours with Zain trying to figure out the matchup.
He’s such a great sportsman and competitor. Would love to play against him one day
I wish the competitive scene of other games were like this.
Other games have elite crybabies who feel threatened when someone of high skill tries to join their scene.
@@CommandoBlack123 I understand why you wouldn’t wanna help out your competition especially when money is on the line. Like, Federer and Nadal probably aren’t gonna run a bunch of scrimmages to help each other “figure out the matchup.”
But as a spectator, it’s awesome for us.
@@SnackMuayTbf that's a bit different, it's in Zains best interest to get better at a losing matchup
However Zain, Cody, and Hbox have been playing friendlies on stream, both of them beat Hbox so that's cool to see
been loving this dynamic of current melee and its so crazy to see the set counts they have on each other
A YOSHI?!?!? -Bobby Scar
The Four Emperors
Soon we got Monkey D Donkey going to upset the current emperors.
Donkey D Kong
Kong D. onkey
Does that make Mang0 a God Emperor?
This was Oda’s vision from the very beginning
Each top 4 player: “I fear no man, but that THING….
….it terrifies me.”
Didn't realize it has been so long since a Zain win on amsa. That was eye opening.
Mango Zain is always so depressing to see. The wins are so sweet but going into the set you know what most likely will happen
I really wish he would just pick up a different character, idk who it would be but it has to be someone else. Marth just isn't working and will never work.
It stinks because Mango Zain is normally always close the first game, which Mango tends to lose, and then after a game 2 loss you kinda figure its over.
@@shady8045 Nah I feel like Zain can 100% do it with Marth against Amsa. He just needs to dial into the MU more, which he recently has made a primary goal.
Falco doesnt beat marth. Cant convince me. Marth has a better dash and all the tools to deal with laser and a better punish game.
@@ShadowForce44 you have a point. After all Zain got consistent against Axe so history could very well repeat itself. In fact I struggle to see why that isn’t a safe bet as the situations are pretty similar imo.
I'm just happy Amsa is sitting at the same table as Cody, Zain, Mango, HBox etc
god i love aMSa
The foil to all of them is a fully locked in hbox which is crazy
Hbox says it himself, he works of his opponents mistakes.
Im a way hbox is the floor of the top competition, your game has to be perfect eneugh to face hbox consistantly. If hbox grows the everyone elses consistancy has to rise eneugh to compensate
the goat
@@boserboser6870 such a good way to put it
Nice video, not a lot of channels covering overall competitive trends ever since the monkey DLC came out
This exact predicament is one of the reasons the meta of Melee is so beautifully intricate.
Welcome back storyline, we’ve missed you
I love all of your videos, they're so high quality and everything I've ever wanted in Melee content!
And then there’s donkey Kong who just causes chaos because monke
Somehow Melee beat the odds and still has a developing meta
Its pretty awesome to watch
Coming back to this after Amsa beat Cody at LACS
Banger!! Love these edits, and the little stock icons in the captions
We had the 5 Gods, Now we have the Four horsemen. Mango and Amsa still running strong despite their age, having to compete with the top of newer blood, it's amazing. we just need one more to climb, Aklo, Junebug, Soonsay, Hbox even. The 2nd 5 Gods era of Melee would be as amazing as the first. For now however, it's just the four horsemen.
i miss when moky would have been mentioned here
@@shzinprobably4663 He could be argued. I haven’t watched moky in a bit but I assumed he was doing fine
Great video! Loving the content- Keep it up!
appreciate it!!
You’re gonna be the next melee channel man keep this going and ty
Zain really needs to lab this Dinosaur out.
The fact mango has been a top player this long is scary dont they say even in gaming pros get worse with age??
Some old dudes are crazy good at the games they play. Look at SSF2T for proof.
Aging will weaken them but at a much slower rate for gaming than a lot of other competitions.
@@zs9652worst case is a repetitive strain injury. Otherwise, game experiance/knowledge favors the vets
This game is about repetition and patience. Not about reaction time.
Yeah haha I just used to hear about gaming careers dying because players can't keep up when their like 25-26 or so. But if anyone plays league like faker is almost 30 and still one of the best players in the world.
People retire pretty young from FPS games, but fighting games don't follow the same trend.
You got some real old heads like Daigo Umehara (43 years old) still playing at a high level even in new games
THE WIN STREAK VS AMSA HAS BEEN BROKEN!
This is so well done lol. I think the only way this video could be better would be if the end of the video perfectly looped back into the beginning of the video
I love how mango time to time just go back to be one of the greatest
I mean he's always been one of the greatest
he is THE greatest of all time
Can we all agree to give them a new name or title for the sake of a story to attract people into the scene? Like the Modern Gods of Melee, the 4 Emperors or Warlods of Melee, or the Apostles of Melee. Post-Slippi Melee Gods. We gotta find some shit. Some cool shit. I guarantee it will do WONDERS for the scene, if we can just agree on something.
Ngl as a spectator I always thought the 5 gods of melee thing was kinda corny and lame, like if we can call them anything other than gods this time I would be down for it
Same @@Junya01
Four horsemen of melee?
@@HuuuuuuueThis is it. Nodody's topping this
@Junya01 I cringed so hard at that part of the Emplemon doc introducing the term.
It's grown on me, but yeah please no teenager from 2011 stuff
I think the reason people don't like Cody is that he (not a crowd favorite) consistently beats amsa (who is very much a crowd favorite). And plus, who would ever cheer for Fox over Yoshi?
hes also cringe af
ppl have disliked him for a long time before that, i think hes just got sweaty loser tryhard vibes, which sounds like it should apply to everyone in the melee community lol but honestly i think hes a lot more chill than he was a few years ago so maybe rn what you said is true
I feel like I'm the only amsa hater in the world bro, like bro should have fallen off in 2018 people should not still be losing to him.
@shady8045
Yoshi has always had potential based on TAS videos and analysis, the thing is that no one thought that anyone was capable of actually pulling the tech off on a practical level at the time until Amsa came along.
@@shady8045
Also, are you really going to discredit everything Amsa has to do to even get a Major in what was previously thought to be a Low Tier character?
aMSa doesn't look as happy anymore, I miss his smile :c
Puff and Shiek in the mix makes it more interesting
and then there is puff
Loses to all 4, but wins just often enough to make them shit their pants
@@FlamingZelda3the wildcard
Rock paper Mango Amsa ✌️
Loved the video and just subbed.
IMO this channel is on pace to be a modern day grsmash with well edited stream highlights, mini video essays like this, and tourney highlights featuring unique gameplay. The only thing I think this channel doesn't do in comparison to prime grsmash is top 10___ in melee/ greatest _____ in melee type videos ( which may/may not work in modern day youtube). Can't wait to see what videos you make next keep it up!!
Playing this video on loop is crazy
this style of narration with no speaking and using simple captions to provide context for clips that speak louder than words would is a really appealing and interesting way to make a video and it honestly kept my attention better than the average voice would
This is a really cool video. I had been thinking about this. I would love to see how Jmook fits into this.
jmook has a good shot against them all. he is kinda outside of this circle
They all do WHAT to each other?
I'd say it's still the same as Summer rankings, although Mango and Cody are a bit closer than when that occurred. I don't think aMSa can secure No. 1 from Zain, but if he were to put on a show these last few months he might be able to outdo Cody and Mango
The ending if the video was 👌
This is content i have always wanted to see!
The Four Titans? Can a former God also be a Titan? Idk but I'm living for it
Didn't hbox retire from melee?
@@dudesayshi2191Hbox hasn't retired yet from what I've seen
@@Quackra okok
Bro Mango's right there
Nice. Would love to see more videos like this one.
I looked at the thumbnail and thought you meant these were the top 4 characters overall and was like: YOSHI OVER PUFF?!
It's gonna happen
Based off the thumbnail I thought this was about the 4 best characters in the game not the 4 best players so all I was thinking about as I clicked on it was “YOSHI?!?”
This video is fantastic. But how about the zain v cody match up, and mang0 v amsa?
Zain Cody is only 2-1 Zain this year. Zain double eliminated him at riptide and Cody beat him a BOBC earlier this year.
Mang0 amsa idk
yo wait this is scarf? always quality videos 🙏
still so weird to see yoshi up there even after all this time
Crazy how Yoshi is on here LMAOO wild times
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Jmook has entered the chat.
Yo where we at now that amSa has beaten Cody?
HungryBox is the equivalent of princess lumps from adventure time
Mang0 back to absolutely killing it after all this time is a fantastic thing.
essay worthy work ty
this is the most exciting melee has been ever i beleive this is epic
Before anyone says anything about the man, Hbox across 2023 and 2024 has a pretty solid winning record on Mang0, is pretty even with aMSa, is getting beat into the ground by Zain, and was on a loss streak against Cody until Hbox double eliminated him at Collision (Where he lost to Zain 2-3 in grand finals afterwards, wow it all adds up still)
Hbox 3-0’d Mang0 today at Wavelength
So he's a wildcard or a good runner up to the top 4
How does HungryBox fit into this? Will we see Junebug join the cycle? Imagine a 6-character cycle lol
hbox fell off unfortunately
If Hbox played mango liked he did in the previous invitational then he becomes the mango roadblock
@@BIGAMBERFAN closer to demoted than fell off. He is now a gatekeeper instead of a threat to finish top three.
@@connorturner1594Yeah he 3-0 Mang0 today at Wavelength
Man it’s really sad that even with amsa there’s still like no one trying to main yoshi or even try him (in melee)
So true
He's in contention as the most technical character in the game, and he has a 60/40 matchup with the most popular character on the game, very unfortunate but it makes sense. He also plays differently compared to the rest which makes doing secondaries harder.
Melee blunt rotation
*Jmook has entered the chat*
*Hungrybox used Roar of Time*
I think we’re almost in a new era of the gods. It just so happens MANG0 IS STILL HERE
Hbox too tbh
Thank fuck yoshi did something instead of fox, blue guy, and other blue guy being the only 3 characters ppl played to win
the fact amsa has lost to cody so much in gf too must be ultra mental blocking for him too, though I think theyre all kinda in that seat with each other
As nature intended. There is a balance. Melee at it's natural course. Someone eventually will come into the mix and mess it up though LOLOLOL
Personally i like to include hbox in this, hbox isnt a bum against 3/4 but againsr zain he is locked out.
I like how you need to point out that Mango does well against Fox when the other 3 do just as well. But you're right,, the Mango - Cody matchup is highly in Mango's favor, even though Cody is still improving at it
The struggle is real
One thing I love about melee is that the crowds are always way more hype than smash ultimate. All of them really care about melee way more than ultimate players care about ultimate.
There’s more rock paper scissors too. For example Moky beats Amsa, Amsa beats Zain, Zain beats Moky.
Just watched GRsmash's recent video on Isai, and since he rightfully achieved #1 in 64, imagine if he came back to melee and actually tried. Highly doubt he would but a man can dream.
I knew everything leffen said was a lie the first time he said marth beats fox
He was coping hard
really well done video
The 4 Titans of Smash. I think Zain comes out slightly on top with the double win on Cody at Riptide though.
The four Duques 😅
everybody in the comments trying to coin a cool name like we’ll ever have five gods again smh.
the new gods of melee???
I think tournaments need to switch to a round-robin format, at least for top 16 or so.
What does the relationship across the middle look like? Fox vs Marth and Yoshi vs Falco. I’ve only heard rumours that Marth counters Fox due to disjoints.
IMO Marth beats Fox, but Cody beats Marth. He's so ahead of the meta, it really looks like a whole different matchup, one where Marths get edgeguarded twice as often and kill half as fast.
Rock, paper, scissors, egg
This is the longest short I've ever seen what the hell
That ending 😂
Get a decent microphone and add a voice over to you be so good at making a full scale documentery, you have potential in making videos this is really good
we need plup back to have another 5 gods
if we all played PAL Amsa would be nambaa 1!
so mango is the only one of the original five to still be there huh
Wil amsa single handily turn yoshi into a high tier?
These are the new gods
Awesome funny video! Earned sub
What's the song used in this video called?
Total fuckin' greenhorn when it comes to Melee. Is this an instance of the characters they pick having a strong RPS against each other, or is it more on the player end?
I love nontransitive relations
close enough welcome back 5 gods (the 5th will develop later like PPMD)
I am going to guess that of everyone that reads this comment no one else will feel the sentiment that, of all of these losing streaks, Cody to Mango makes me the most sad. I'm a fox lover, more then anything in melee I want to see a fox get good enough that they can maintain rank 1 multiple years in a row. I do *not* want to see the top 10 get consumed by foxes (which honestly in modern melee there are too many top 10 foxes.. wasn't always that way) but I do want to see a single fox main truly sit the melee thrown and long term dominate.
Thats respectable but most of us don’t want to see the most privileged and easy character succeed. People say you need tech skills and he is not consistent but it’s no issue when you always play melee since you stay sharp
@@TheBeggies95 See I don’t think he’s relatively as free or privileged as most youtube comments act like he is. I haven’t played since Covid granted, but I’ve been watching melee since 2012 and it always seemed to me like a game where just being 1% more skilled then your opponent meant you typically won much more often, terrible matchups excluded. The idea that “fox destroys other characters but also gets destroyed just as hard” is very true imo, and why even someone as insanely good as Cody couldn’t maintain #1 (most likely) and even during his dominant period was getting upset by Samus’s and DK’s. I know for a fact I’ve heard Mang0 say on stream that at top level there is no such thing as an easy character, and I think the proof is in the results that in 23 years of melee, the #1 player has for the majority been a floatier character. I mean if the character really is so busted how has it been so hard even with all the representation for a fox to get #1? Again not saying he isn’t privileged, I just think it’s not be as large a margin compared to other top tiers as others say it is.
Also, obviously, this is just my opinion. Someone could mention the ratio of foxes to other characters in the top 100 as a counterpoint (which imo is due to how fun fox is mainly, though I do wish there was more diversity). Either way, just a different POV.
Looking like a new "Gods" situation 😅
Hbox with puff 🗿
Remember when people thought falco/marth was 50/50?