The Tyranny of FUN: Ammo, Encumbrance & Limitations in 5e Dungeons & Dragons - Web DM
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- You there! You're not having enough FUN?! Well F#%@ that $#%!
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Web DM there is a range restriction into range, you have disadvantage if there within 5 feet I think
all farmers would be necromancers. raise the dead would make the life of a farmer the easiest thing ever.
Hey, the "post credit scene" reminded me of Paranoia because in Paranoia "Friend Computer says fun is MANDATORY. Not having enough fun makes you a treasonous COMMIE TRAITOR."
I got the feeling reading paranoia that it was designed by a DM trying to troll rules lawyers because the first rule is that players are not allowed to know the rules...
Please do a video on Paranoia some time.
Well.. that intro was kinda unexpected lmao
*Modern soldier carries 50+ kg of gear around
Web DM: "There is a reason people stopped wearing plate armor [...of 25kg]"
*Accusatory tone* and where are you keeping all those greatswords, Mr. Fighter?
I actually started wheezing when Jim said that, absolutely underrated comment
I made a magical item called a "Brain in a Jar". It has a slimy, difficult to like personality, makes comments and criticisms on the players performance and choices, and REALLY likes the sound of it's own voice in your head. The benefit is that it's literally another brain, and can maintain concentration on a second spell for you.
That's super cool
Hey thanks!
Michael Davaz that's awesome
It does require attunement, hopefully to balance things out, and hasn't been used to break the game.... yet.
Nice i have two NPC Construct Gargoyles that do much the same thing as your brain, except there is no plus side, its just a way for me to take the piss out of my players.
Happiness is Mandatory
Are you unhappy citizen? I will be having a brief chat with your Happiness Officer about treason and neglecting one's duties
Miniluv has been reported. BB is watching. Have a doubleplusgood day.
You kiss damsels with that mouth!?
I watched the intro twice so I could read this comment twice with the same effect.
I wash their mouth out with soap first.
2:27 Someone used mage hand to fix his mic.
Chas Duren
Pin the mic's below the neck. I see so many RUclips shows do this with T-shirts. Buy a $1 pack of diaper pins.
"In my mind, I think arrows break way too often" - hey, I think that's a sentence most actual archers would agree with. At least in a D&D setting one can reasonably expect, as it was in real history, that they'd be pretty easy to replace, being so common. Now a days? Not so much. A dozen arrows cost me $100, and I broke one of them the very first time I went shooting. Annoying as hell.
And "Can you find it?" Hoooo, boy. You shoot an arrow in a field and that thing will slither into the grass like a fucking snake and you'll never see it again. You aim the trajectory wrong on a hill and that arrow will slide UP the slope and shoot off somewhere you can't even see.
Are these things annoying? Yeah. But they're very realistic.
Meh. What you are calling actual archers aren't actual archers. If you start using an English longbow (up to 160lb draw weight, very frequently over 120lb and 90lb is for hunting and not war) I can promise you that if you hit plate armour then EVERY arrow will break. That being said, this is a game, not a simulation.
@@TheBaconWizard The thing is, if you *hit*, that means you dealt damage, so you bypassed the armor by hitting a soft spot. And if you didn't hit, then it's up to the DM if that was an actual miss or it hit the armor, so you're still not having every arrow break all the time.
@@BIZEB This is true, but not entirely relevant to the point being made. The OP is speaking about realism as if he/she has some experience of it. This is false. Modern archery is to medieval battlefield archery as paintball is to WW1 trench warfare. If more realism is needed for archery in DnD (I don't think it is) then among many changes that would have to be made, getting far fewer arrows back would certainly be one.
"There's a reason why people stopped wearing heavy plate armor" - Guns. The reason was guns.
*THANK YOU* for knowing history. And, to be fair, they didn't let go of their heavy plate armor easily. Remember the actual historical breastplates? Each one of those weight as much as a good portion of a full plate set. They weren't even great against the primitive firearms, but they were better than nothing. And people used them.
Coupled with the fact that a modern soldier carries more weight into battle than a knight in plate armour did
So you want to be a historically accurate b*tch under a video about encumbrance.
OK... Plate armour doesn't make sense for adventurers because it's heavy and it needs a lot of maintenance and it's not really good for long walks, sewer pest control and mountain trips that all adventurers have to participate in.
Plate mail and specially lamellar armour, on the other hand, does offer the same protection of the essential parts, and it is able to stop early firearms. and it is not as limiting as full-plate.
now to the point that YOU made, not the point they were making in the video, the reason for not wearing armour was not guns, because there were cuirasses that were able to stop bullets. it was the effect of guns on the tactics. no matter how rulers tried, heavy armoured units were still special units. guns, on the other hand, could be mass produced, they were good at killing all but the heavily armoured units and they became what we would now call a glass cannon unit. they were dangerous until they fired. so the whole tactic changed to protect the gunners. pike units were protecting the guns. and pikes are also good against armour. and Zwei-handers were designed to counter pikes. and armoured units became redundant because guns managed to do more damage than heavy cavalry ever did.
and even after this change, people still used plate armour, just not full plate because their major concern was to protect their much needed organs, so they put the weight into their cuirasses and left the arms exposed and free to move.
So there is more to it than just GUNS.
have a nice day.
For someone who wanted to make a point you missed mine. I kept it short and simple for one. If you think about context here, guns, regardless of how, were the cause of armor being phased out. You said it yourself. The issue was he was claiming that weight is the reason people stopped using armor. We know that's not correct. It was about cost and it wasn't useful against the most common weapons. It never became "Viable" to wear less armor. People didnt turn into arrow dodging ninjas. Plate Armor became obsolete. Also wooden armor was often not less cumbersome and eventually no practical armor could stop bullets. Have a great day.
NO no, he doesn't. he has an assault rifle, few magazines and, if lucky, a bullet proof armour. as far as I know, assault rifles don't weigh 50kg.
Of note: people didn't so much eschew heavy plate armor because it became practical to do so, they did because guns got so good that the armor had to become impracticality thick. There was a 100 year period where guns and plate coexisted, but with the advent of the heavy muskets that require about 10mm of thickness or more, they simply couldn't cover your whole body any more and be able to move. The Spanish still used breastplates that could deflect bullets for a time, but after a while with guns becoming more and more powerful, even just a breastplate became to heavy (after becoming about 15mm a long time).
"...convert all weight into stones" "...it has a medieval feel to it."
Cries in Irish
The casual mic fix hahaha
Dalton Inman
Trav just wanted some onscreen time.
JPruInc For the record, I know you guys (including Travis) try to run a tight ship, but I'd rather have these fun moments AND the engaging discussion, than an asceptized product where we would have missed that (because of a cut). I love your shows, please keep doing great ones! :-)
Stealth 20
What's weird is they cut to a wider angle to show it.
What's going on in the background there? Are they living inside a D20?
Yes
They provide a neutral backdrop and help reflect the lights Into areas where there might be too much shadow
@@elbyguitars That backdrop is not so neutral in later videos though. It has drawings all over it, but they don't use it any more.
His life is a d20.. he rolls a d20 to see how well his pooping goes..
@@thothheartmaat2833 Sometimes a good poop requires a will save.
I study game design so I can explain why races no longer get negative numbers on stats.
To do so, let me tell you a story about World of warcraft.
When WoW was at the height of it's popularity, people were concerned that people were playing it for too long, so long that it affected their health and life.
So blizzard decided that they wanted to do something about this.
As a solution they decided to make it so that the longer you played to game, the less xp you earned.
And people fucking HATED it, they were FURIOUS, and understandably so, no one wants to be penalized for playing the game.
So what did Blizzard do in response? They changed it so that the more time you spend offline, the more xp you got once you logged back in.
Now notice, that this is the exact same thing, it both comes down to "more playing=less xp, less playing=more xp".
But now people loved it.
The difference is that instead of feeling like you were punishing the player, you were now rewarding him.
It was positive reinforcement instead of negative reinforcement.
Same for races, there is no reason to reduce a races stat when you could also just adjust the baseline.
A 9 base strength with a +2 if you are a human and nothing if you are a goblin is the same as a base str of 10 with a +1 if you are a human and a -1 if you are a goblin.
Both end up with a human having 11 STR, and a goblin having 9. But now you feel like you are getting double as much when you are a human, and not losing anything when you are a Goblin.
psychology, it's the foundation for good game design.
Best F*cking intro
You mean...
Fuck! This f*cking intro, was the f*cking best intro of f*cking all time here n f*cking WebDM :D
Trevor Barnes
F*%king Thanks!
I'm gonna pretend that every one of those bleeps was just covering up the word "bagel".
He thinks he can just BAGEL in here and BAGEL all over my BAGELED BAGELS like some BAGELING BAGEL in my BAGEL BAGEL BAGEL?!
That's exactly what happened!
I imagine Drizzt or Raistlin as expletives.
how dare you say such foul word here? there are kids watching!
Totally want a bagel profanity filter now.
Thanks for that
its a tragedy that this series is less popular than the one on geek and sundry with the pornstar. you guys are great. thank you for all the incredible advice.
It might be because of the aforementioned Pornstar
How the fudge (except I didn't say fudge) does this show such great production value? The editing, framing, multi-camera, everything is just great. I do miss the goofy background drawings though
The old monsters illustrations were amazing
Holy crap, I hadn't noticed they were gone. Did they move location? I knew that Jim Davis moved, but I hadn't heard anything about Pruitt or Travis.
We moved to the other side of the room.
"Calvin we just moved to the other side of the room calm down"
he panicked like a puppy left in a fenced off area
Ok, so draw something there... ;)
Arrow breakage-- shooting a soft target is very different than even deer hunting. Wood arrows are going to warp and they are going break on impact with armor. Modern carbon arrows still warp and bend after downing a deer. Arrows will break and not be shattered- hairline fractures make them impossible to reuse. Sure you can shoot them, but they will shatter on impact. Even modern arrows break. Bullets deform on impact. The rules are pretty darn good.
Yeah, I'm not familiar with the specific rules but I know from actually using a bow while either practicing or hunting that you lose a lot of arrows real fast as soon as you aren't shooting at a big soft target. You fire one off into even a well mowed field, good luck. You can spend an awful lot of time searching sometimes and still not find them. Bury one in a tree, its effin gone. You will spend some serious time digging it out. You can save it, with some practice and a whole lot of time, but you WILL spend a lot of time getting it back, that is if its not already damaged, which it often is.
I came down here to post something to this effect. What material you are using for the heads of the arrow make a big difference as well. Steel arrowheads are magnitudes more durable than bone, stone, or wood. But, those can bend and break as well. I wouldn't go so far as to say arrows are one use items, but, you break them a lot, and lose them more often. Having buried many so deep in the ground that you can't get them out, I can attest to this.
Variant encumbrance I feel is fine, because it adds substantial value to powerful build and tenser’s floating disk, and once the party accrues enough money they can buy horses, or other beasts of burden like oxen to carry their supplies for them. It also brings up concept space that adventurers could be employed to do supply runs that could take multiple trips, because the people on the frontlines are also abiding by variant encumbrance. Idk, it’s another potential gold sink for players so I think it’s worthwhile.
I never thought this channel would have more F-Bombs in one video than an Eminem song
The real Web DM just stood up.
I feel old.
I was thinking George Carlin.
Ammo: I usually make players keep track of it simply for monetary reasons. My campaigns most often have shops easily available for things such as ammo.
Encumbrance: I don't apply this rule unless its so obvious that I need to. The reason I don't is because of how broken the encumbrance rule is for me. 90% of the time the class and background you choose will have too much for your backpack to carry or too much for you to carry so you lose speed.
Racial Benefits: I think the reason they made no negatives for your race was so that you could play any race and use any class with them good, granted not as good as other races could but you could still choose to be an Orc Wizard or an Elf Barbarian and not have heavy drawbacks. They went with a more creative approach to it and I really like it.
I agree. I'm dm'ing a group on Roll20 and half of my player's starting inventories would make them over-encumbered. I'll implement it if they are looting a boss like a dragon and they try to take the whole hoard back with them.
You are really lucky that you play D&D, bcs. our rpg system doesn't even have rules about encumbrance. And you take your players into king's treasury and somebody asks you how much gold can he fit into his bag, how much gold can he carry. and you have no idea... so you spend hour calculating it :D
I don't keep track of ammo because in my last 12 campaigns with 4-7 people per game I've had a dedicated ranged attacker in the party ONCE, and only one other time has someone actually used any ranged weapon. Seriously my players either fight with swords or spells, it's like they forgot Bows exist!
+PhoenixofEclipse | I had a rogue that carried a crossbow, +1 had a scope on'er. Fierra was her name. The crossbow, not the character. Yeah, she was real beauty that girl. The character, well he ended up turned into an animated crossbow toting teddy bear. Fierra didn't mind, loyal girl her. They don't make'em like that anymore.
I usually either ignore the first level of encumbrance or just assume that stuff like bedrolls and rations are left at camp and don't worry about them. Alternatively hand out a Haversack early to keep the basics and a reasonable amount of coin in. They hold a lot less than a Bag of Holding so the problem of carrying out literal tons of gold is still there if you want it. Ammo isn't nearly as much of an issue, especially in Roll20. It's just a number that goes up and down as opposed to an obnoxiously long list of everything the character has ever touched with various weights and volumes.
As for removing negatives I actually think they handled it really well. Previously the +/- stats were essentially relative to a normal Human anyway, so you give Humans +1 to everything and now any other race having no bonus is mechanically a -1 but doesn't have the psychological effect of seeing a penalty.
I do love the variant human option though. It seems really powerful to some people but you're giving up 4 stat points for one proficiency and one feat. If your DM is allowing feats anyway you can think of that as the equivalent of 2 ASIs which could have gotten you that same feat and 3 proficiencies through the Skilled feat. What I actually love about it is how much flavor that feat and proficiency can add to a 1st level character. Sure, waiting until 4th level gets you just as much power or utility in the long run, but starting with them at 1st makes it feel more like a part of the character gained from their backstory.
Tried to build a Halforc Bard in 3.5............ he was shit. my Halforc Bard in 5th is so much fun. his instrument is an iron banded didgeridoo, that he can also use as a club.
You can make such quirky and interesting characters in 5th.
Didgeridoo club sounds like something straight out of Monster Hunter!
Hunting horn 4 life
sh*t, does it have reach?
goo.gl/Fm2vjC if this thing doesn't have a good reach, I don't know what does
My first ever character in 5e was a half-orc bard, and I had SO much fun with him
"Carrying another person with me." I hear that ;-; HILLS AND STAIRS ARE DIFFICULT TERRAIN.
Have you tried keto?
The penalty for firing into melee is now part of the cover system of 5e, allies and enemies all provide cover vs ranged attacks. Want to shoot the orc your buddy is in melee with, and you are behind your buddy, the orc gains a +2 to his AC. Of course, the Sharpshooter feat removes this by allowing you to ignore all cover but full/total cover.
Michael Grimes melee range is 5', and that's an awful lot of potential space, especially if allies are mindful of shooting lines and maneuver accordingly. Cover isn't necessitated by being in melee.
However, spectacular misses I'd think could have a chance of hitting allies. Maybe if it's
Sorry but penalizing players for wearing heavy armor is only further incentivising a Dex built character with light armor. Dex is already the most used stat in the game for saves and checks. Can we please not continue trying to bring down Str. build Fighter or Paladins? Strength is argueably the least used stat in the game already and if you penalize people fore wearing heavy armor then why make a strength fighter or paladin?
There is a set of rules that already work on heavy armor that put disadvantage on stealth roles. There does not need to be any further penalty beyond that. You can reach 1 AC less than full plate with half plate + 14 dex or studded leather and 20 dex. That's not counting the medium armor feat ( sorry forgot the exact name ) that removes the disadvantage on stealth roles from medium armors that have it and allow for up to a +3 from dex making it 16 dex plus half plate = to full plate plus no disadvantage on stealth checks.
People who were knights or footsoldiers in a well armed force wore heavy armor and fought all out wars with them. Marched great distances win them. There is no reason to think those people WHO HAVE TRAINED, aka be proficient, in wearing heavy armor are not physically capable of normal mobility, climbing, etc. There is a reason there is a str. minimum on heavy armor. To wear full plate you have to have 15 strength which is 1 more strength than you need in dex to reach the "natural" top end in half-plate.
This is a silly home rule and in the current 5e rule set just pushes Str builds all towards Barbarian and Fighters/Paladins into Half-Plate Dex builds.
You want encumberance? Fine....full plate weighs a good amount. That on top of the disadvantage on stealth while requiring 15 str minimum is enough.
And the comment "Can an average guy weighing 165 pounds carry 150 lbs worth of things?" The answer if they are physically fit is yes. A "TRAINED" person of that weight can. Soldiers weighing 165 pounds in the military are still wearing body armor, helmet, backpack, weapon if not weapons, and ammunition weighing from 60 to 120 pounds. "I carry another person and it weighs on your joints"......you are seriously out of shape my friend. A "Hero" in D&D is not built like that. He has lots of muscle accounting for his weight not fat or water weight. This is a fantasy world with fantastic heroes. Its ridiculous to say you who does not appear to be in athletic shape for your size (( talking to the slender guy )) are of 10 strength....who decides what average strength in REALITY is? and how do you base this statement? There is no system for this in REALITY so why compare D&D to it? Not to mention items in D&D weigh stupid amounts. Some things weigh too little and other things weight WAY too much. The weights of the items are not based on reality so why should the weight limits you are working with be based on reality? Its all a fantasy game.
Couldn't read the whole wall of text, but the point on marching in armor is absolutely wrong. First, it doesn't make sense, second there are medieval sources describing some battles. Explanation for the defeats offered? The armor was in the wagons somewhere in the rear, recon forces screwed up, the army was slaughtered and only the dark/river/etc saved the remainder
I once ran a "gonzo free-for-all". Only restriction was no Humans, which had gone extinct in the world. This was Pathfinder - so many odd races showed up.
One thing I've added to concentration is adding concentration levels.
Every time you can cast a high level, your concentration lvl goes up.
So at 3rd lvl you can have either 2 1st lvl spells of C, or 1 lvl 2 of C up.
Works pretty well.
The last line of the video is probably one of the best pearls of wisdom: "If you never have a low, can you really appreciate all the highs?" So applicable to many long running games/systems.
That's why you see a rise in people asking for Low Magic settings
lol. I fondly remember my very first DnD experience back in the late 80s early 90s. We had a Ninja in our party (we were trying the Oriental Adventures module), and he had found a magic item. We didn't have time to identify it so we decided to take a shortcut through this forest to get back to town. We ran into a small camp of bandits and in desperation he used the item. He got a good roll and it killed the bandits. He then decides that he is going gather up all their equip. ...and run back to town. Now the important thing to know is that he only had a str of 12 and our DM, who had a demented sense of humor said okay. It went something like this "You're running through the forest *rolls dice* You hit a tree and suffer x damage and you drop x # of items do you wish to continue...." Needless to say by the time he crawled into town he was down to 1 hp and had dropped everything but, what he could reasonably carry with his stats. :D
Restrictions can be fun if they are used occasionally. Having your players ship wrecked on an island where they have to keep track of rations and ammo and find shelter for rests could be fun for a session or two. Making players do that every session of the campaign would become tedious.
Gregory Floriolli that's what living costs are for. if you have the cash and the places to spend it, you don't have to track it until money runs out or the places you get what need burn down (or whatever). then it becomes something you need to pay attention to. till then you just track the money you're spending each month
I love to bring up encumbrance.
I brought it up as a PLAYER.
We cleared the caverns of enemies.
Then after the last Lich fell (forgot exactly what we fought, it was 30 years ago), one of the other players said: "We gather up the loot and head to town"
I popped up: "We can't carry all of that!"
We commenced calculating weight and encumbrance...
12 TONS per character...
That began the epic campaign to package and cart the loot to the capital of the empire (because noplace else had facilities to deal with selling it)
We had to hire teamsters and buy wagons and mules and hire guards and cooks and....
The caravan that finally left the caves was over a mile long.
I loved it.
All of the other players wanted to strangle me for bringing up encumbrance.
Super into this topic! I'm a DM who's really fond of restriction mechanics. In my current campaign, a lot of stuff like ammo, encumbrance, rations, and so forth have gone by the wayside for ease of play, but I'd like to bring it back in my next campaign. D&D can be a lot of things, but for me the best experience is running a dungeon from a module with my own little additions and fun things added and watching the players outwit bad guys and take it by storm, and THAT experience is really enhanced when rations are tracked, when ammo is counted, and when you can't just waltz out of the dungeon with everything on your back.
I think when you think about fun, you automatically get stress about your own emotional state and you don't actually have fun. I think you should mentally focus on something else, such as the elegance of events, or the value of making a story you can tell later.
i was introduced to RPGs through the 40k RPGs, so rolling for stats has always felt right to me.
My favourite way to run/play in DnD and pathfinder is 3d6, in order. and then once you have all 6 stats you get to choose to reroll a single one of them, and keep the highest.
So you can either choose to reroll your 5 Int just because it's so bad, or take a bit of a risk and try to reroll your 11 in Str in the hope that you get something better.
It makes for an excellent point of suspense and excitement in a session 0, but there are definitely some players who just can't handle not having high stats at lvl 1... which imho is a great way of avoiding people who don't fit our group's gaming culture.
That said, i've had some amazing games with more lenient 4d6 drop the lowest and then apply them to stats at will, or even point buy.
So Jim, I hear you have a pdf for us. :^)
Ha! I posted a little something for you on our Facebook page, my friend!
Jim Davis it's perfect, I will treasure it forever.
I played that way as well and I was a goblin with a 4 Constitution and I went Barbarian with a health feat and even role-played it as he was born sick and beat the sickness out of himself. It was awesome.
Sometimes when I am not having the best day, I will watch at least the intro to this one and it always helps.
I keep it super simple. Each character can carry 8 slots, everything (including armour and any size weapon) takes up 1 slot. That's what they always have on them and keep on them when they fight.
Everything else is carried in bags which are dropped to fight, this only becomes an issue when they have to run away from a fight or are being chased by something, in which case some of the bags may be left behind (roll to see what's lost). I also allow the party to go back and try to recover the items, which can give a good adventure hook to raid the orc camp or whatever.
I feel like if that was the system I played in I would save up for a bag of holding as soon as possible because that would become rather frustrating to me personally. Just my opinion though if it works for your game that's cool.
90% of the time it makes no difference, the characters can carry as much as they want and not have to worry about tracking encumbrance. And you avoid the mental image of a fighter going into battle with a two handed sword and 5 other two handed weapons on his back.
When it does become an issue it can lead to interesting choices and follow up adventures .
I did consider basing the slot numbers on on ability scores but I went with super simple. Plus you can adjust the number of slots to suite your group, more or less restrictive. Or decide that some items (Rings, Headwear, Armour) doesn't count, I use Rings don't take up a slot. Limitations on number of healing potions hasn't been the problem I thought it might be as combats in 5e tend to be short.
It won't be for everyone but I wanted some sort of encumbrance that avoided walked armoury syndrome, was turbo simple and offered interesting choices during play.
Paul Kingtiger yeah it make sense I guess it would only get frustrating if I lost a bunch of stuff multiple times in a short period of time.
Paul Kingtiger plus when you can buy a bag of holding it makes things less complicated
Yeah that would suck, if that happens the DM is doing something wrong.
I love your guys content so much. You think you could do a video on D&D Cults? I always figured Cults in D&D are such a classic but I feel like I struggle a bit with em, I would love to hear your guys input.
Matt Coville does a great job going through the iterations of the game in his building a fighter video series.
What is this mic adjusting ghost hand????
Blandco It should do a face reveal or more special guest appearances
Was Mage hand
Hi guys, I'm a bit late to this channel but found this vid your most interesting so far.
I played D&D from first edition to 3.5, but stopped when 4th edition came out. After a few years break from RP games a friend suggested trying "Barbarians of Lemuria"
It was a radically simple departure from D&D but, after a single session, I found it wonderfully liberating and fun. It's simplicity also makes it easy to mod, if you want.
The rules & restrictions are minimal, which initially concerned me, but its career-based approach gave me complete freedom to create and play any character I wanted.
Think on this: I want to enjoy gaming while WotC want to maximise revenue. Who benefits from rules/books? Shed the rules/books to lower costs & prioritise fun.
High ability score characters aren't any more fun to PLAY, they are more fun to MAKE. After character creation people talk about spells and combat abilities.
Also, Pruit, heroes are defined by what they DO, not their stats. A hero is one who rises to the challenge, not one who was born super fast or smart or strong or with perfect teeth.
Depends on the angle you're playing at. If you're looking to play the campaign where you're a farmer and the raid that slaughters half your village is your call to adventure, a dice roll for stats is definitely appropriate and possibly more enjoyable as you're discovering yourself as a character and finding out where you wind up. But if you have an exact idea of what you want in you character and who they are, it could be non negotiable. If I want to play a world class elite detective and roll the lowest possible score on investigation and charisma, really, what's the point of even playing? The performance of the character is going to be greatly hindered to the point where they seem like a fraud that can't do anything right worst case scenario, or some goofy mister bean type that gets everything done by sheer luck to the point that they're laughable as a character and not taken seriously. Some characters represent the common man. Others represent the exceptional. The point is, if you're trying to build a diverse world, you need to make room for all walks of life. A poor dm pigeon holes his players. If you want to play super restrictive with hard limitations, it's your obligation to be upfront at the zero session and make sure everyone is on the same page so those who realize they won't enjoy themselves can quit while they're ahead.
Fun fact, leather armour never existed in real life and full plate armour does not restrict mobility or speed, it weighs around 15 kilograms and it is distributed through the body, and archers did not carry quivers in their backs, as it made the arrows jump off the quiver when the archer ran or jumped, instead, they carried quivers in their belt, and aways kept 3 or 4 arrows in their shooting hand or their bow hand, to fire arrows really fast.
Bruce Wayne I think full plate is less restrictive than portrayed, but it does restrict mobility and speed.
I'm sure if we both run a mile, you wearing full plate and myself in sneakers and shorts, I'm going to win. I'm also sure if we both run a simple obstacle coarse while you're wearing plate, I'd also win.
Chumley belated In any contest of stamina though the plate armor's main drawback will be heat more than anything.
Leather armor did exist as something very basic, but Gambesons were far superior just with layered cloth
Fun fact, the word Cuir bouilli did exist in the 1500's. Which is boiled leather. Also fun fact, I know shocker...DnD isn't real life.
I feel like in terms of the wizard's subclass, basically your wizard is an EXPERT in one school, but is able to cast spells from the other schools. No restrictions.
People didn't avoid plate armor because it was too heavy, plate armor was amazingly protective, even if it was a bit encumbering.
For EDC? Sure, encumberance can come into it. But if you were going into battle, there was nothing better.
The problem was that it was *extremely* expensive to produce.
If you could afford to put an army in plate armor, you could probably just buy nations instead of conquering them.
Plate armor is great. Other armors were favorable because they were more cost effective.
Unless it would be dramatic or appropriate for the story, I don't impose ammo or encumbrance rules. I like to keep track of that fiddly stuff when I'm playing, but not everyone does. It's so much easier to assume that basic spell components, ammo, etc., are all part of the general upkeep of an adventurer's kit.
That being said, I like to reward my players (usually with inspiration) who do keep track of the fiddly things. It's just another layer of roleplay.
Encumberance- I keep it more general. I usually just say no problems until half your max or so, and past that I want a vague knowledge of where you're carry it and maybe some mild situational penalties 'you travelled 5 fewer miles today because Travis is carrying 36 gallons of milk again.' or 'you're getting a slightly higher swim check, the backpack of milk is throwing you off."
Food and Ammo are tricky. Ammo I keep a general track of, but I keep track for them and it's more of a vague number, but I keep a lot of special ammos in my game that're more expensive. FOOD on the other hand I keep track of. my players know 3 things- beware goblins, stay out of ANY water, and turn all possible monsters into food. I've almost had a party turn on itself because they were stuck and starving in a minotaur maze and that ranger was NOT letting them eat his companion without a fight. but as long as you're in the forest or town, or you say that you're making monster jerky from that giant snake, I'll let it slide XD
Once I [tryed to] play in a medieval fantasy setting with a DM. I wanted to be a Paladin and he told me it was impossible because they have no gods in his setting... the bigest limitation I've ever seen in a RPG.
no gnomes. ever. won't allow them. and teifling isn't a race, it's an affliction. and paladins ARE almost all human, because they have the only gods that work that way. and if you want to play a paladin you need to start as something else and prove your worth before you can take levels in it. and half elves can't breed. they are a genetic dead end. and dragonborn are all under the sway of the dragon that creates them... and even then they are rare. and dwarves can't be wizards sorcerers or rangers, but they make powerful priests. and elves have q natural affinity to sorcery and suck at wizardry itself, rarely learning such human magics. and humans don't practice sorcery without having some Elven blood in them. and... well, I could go on, but I'm getting bored texting this on my phone.
+MIchael Hannah Wow...
↑ýr :p it's how dnd is supposed to work. those are just some of the things that make my world a real place for the players. I've tried free for all's, and they just lack a certain interest. of course, the exceptions, if their are any, are the characters that the players make that push against the envelope of what is allowed. the best most successful games I've ever run have been in this world and it is the one that almost every group has enjoyed playing in the most. people forget that even the players handbook is just a tool for the gm to use to allow his world to be populated
once upon a time there were no tieflings, until a player wanted to play one and we worked out how it would work in this world together. same for dragonborn. the whole dwarf thing is just because I'm as much old school as new age, and I wouldn't stop a player from TRYING to learn magic as a Dwarf. probably a sorcerer if he did, spec'd into earth magic. or maybe a transmuter specialized in the same. dunno, hasn't happened yet, so it doesn't exist... yet
Well, in this case this is "good" limitations since you can overcome it, in my case thr GM was just a dick (or really really bad), he just didn't wanted to have religion and throwing all the content it could offer without replacing it didn't bothered him. The proof is that he didn't even managed to bring the party together and just gave up after the first session even if we were still in the same town.
I made up an extremely overcomplected system for arrow recovery early in my 3E D&D campaign. It was quickly abandoned, probably never once having been used. System abstractions are often worthwhile, just to keep things moving instead of having to look shit up all the time.
You mentioned silk armor as common sense armor, yet you still think full plate makes you less mobile/is very heavy.
Matthew Dylla ....doesn't it? I mean... You're wearing underclothes, a chain mail and then thick plates of hardened steel held together by metal rivets and thick leather straps.
The plates are pretty thin and light despite how sturdy they are, a gambeson, chain mail, and plates are heavy together, but the weight is distributed over your body, 20 spread out feels like a lot less.
Current active military Soldiers carry more on average then a full plate of proper fighting armour. (You can do cartwheels in plate.) Yes its more tiring going full sprint for hours compared to leather but even then its kinda just.. ehh you train to deal with it.
1: Heavy armor didn't go out of favor because it was heavy. It went out of favor because it didn't stop bullets.
2: Target archery doesn't put the same stress on arrows as combat archery. War bows have far higher draw weights than target bows, often 3-4x as heavy, and thus the arrows carry a lot more energy. In addition, they are typically hitting harder targets, since the target are generally wearing armor. 50% ammunition loss is being generous to archers in actual context.
modern armor is also heavy and their ammos and guns helmet and backpack
0:10 we need a meme of this
"Bag of Teleportation"...variant on the "Bag of Holding"...anything you put in the "BoT", automatically gets teleported to a specified location in your keep/stronghold...no more loot encumbrance ...except maybe those 5 +3 shields you INSIST on carrying
"Gotta have a litte sadness once in awhile so you know when the good times come." Bob Ross
I haven't played D&D since just after 3rd edition came out, but I think I enjoyed 2nd edition AD&D more. Mainly because all of the restrictions forced me to be more creative when conceptualizing my characters. Plus, I really had to come up with a compelling story to convince my DM to let me play a half-orc paladin with 2nd edition, rather than with 3rd edition when everything was allowed.
Jim Davis the Slam Poet Bard. Thanks for the new npc guys!
If you're going to throw out all the restriction rules, you might as well play the game called Munchkins. I'm okay with fudging some rules to make the game move along, especially more on a situational basis.
I do think there should be some draw backs to a character to real them in, make it a little easier to suspend disbelief, and balance the players. If your stats are that much higher than John Q Public, you're playing a Mary Sue. Limiting stats or even buying them at least makes a character flawed.
I don't have a much use for the recently made up creatures like dragonfolk, warforged or teiflings or whatever. The publisher's should have harvested more creatures from folklore (even Eastern or American folklore).
I have noticed another element in the culture in D&D when reading forums on various sights. When ever there is a negative, or trade off in a stat, Such as a race having a negative modifier to one stand while giving a bonus to another. Player started using the word "punishment" for the negative. The concept of risk reward, or trade off has been totally skewed by a generation of players who think that any negative is a punishment. You are punished for being a halfling because of the negative to strength.
Easy way to put it: Hey man Gary’s Mod is fun. But so is darksouls!
I love the 1984 thumbnail so much 😂😂😂
arrows are nearly never re-usable in combat due partially to loss (how long are you gonna spend actually searching underbrush?) and largely due to deformation of the tips and destruction of the shafts on impact.
UNLIMITED POWER!
have you ever hear the tragedy of darth plaguies the wise
Toporamen It is not a story an NPC would tell you
Re: Dragonborn, Tieflings, and Aasimars...
There are two types of Web DMs: Those who allow for classically styled Tolkienesque worlds as an option that players might like, and those who are *wrong*.
The weird assumptions of what exists in a "proper" fantasy world are the absolutely *least* cannon assumptions of the questionable canon things in the rule books...
Just to throw this out there: I really love listening to your guys' conversations about how D&D has evolved over the years. I started in 4e but mostly played 5th and a little 3.5 so its interesting to hear how the game used to be designed in compared to recent years. I hope you guys keep having with with the content and the small community you guys have begun growing.
The 3d6 in a row, stuck with it is used in Dungeon Crawl Classics. A really interesting take on old school D&D. They also have you make 3-4 0 level peasants (no class), have some crazy adventure and the one that survives becomes a level 1 adventurer, called The Funnel. For 5e there is an amazing document called The Fifth Edition Funnel, which you can get on Drivethrurpg, pay what you want. Its how all my games start now!
Jim's face at the beginning was amazing. XD I love these guys SO much. Such great chemistry.
The video game method for encumberance has many interestings things attached. Like if you have some sort of token for your items (like a card with a drawing, or poker chips or anything really) the visual representation is really nice for some players (we all love props in the end).
Anyways, the problem of FUN is that... well is really short sighted. You go to the movies to see suspense and "drama". You play games like silent hill to get scared and unnerved. You obses and get frustrated over stuff... and that's great, because it makes your games more meaningful. In the end, you don't want your games to be FUN... you want them to be INTERESTING
My campaign setting has 'Arrow Trees'...
*NOICE!* I love it!
*cries in Gunslinger*
@@DannyDog27 bullet-berry bushes ? :p
As someone who approaches play from a GURPS perspective, where world building is _subtracting_ options rather than adding them, the attitude that the GM must allow anything in the PHB is just... alien to me.
I do not like the idea that regular people can't be heros. My prime example is Ripley in Alien, and Aliens - nothing after, which totally erked me.
When Pruitt mentioned that their table's general philosophy is that they're rolling "heroes," and not farmers bound to be killed.
Bryon Ross Ripley isn't a long term, continuous hero. That's really a big difference between how most D&D games are run and the scrappy heroes in many movies and TV shows. She's the hero of the hour that then goes home from the Ship and tries to forget the incident.
Compare that with characters like the Captains of Star Trek, and most fictional police detectives, like Sherlock Holmes. They live for the next case, the next adventure, until they reach the point where they die in action. It's their job to adventure, philosophically and story-wise, not to win.
Ripley wants to win and go home.
I'm going to back the OP up on this. I find this way more compelling. Narratively, it's so much more interesting to juxtapose a character's humble beginnings against their later heroic standing. Big deeds seem even larger when placed against the background of an otherwise ordinary person rising to the occasion.
Characters in my game are folk who have a little special something about them - a skill they've practiced extensively, or a studied knowledge, etc. - and the desire to raise their hand when someone asks for volunteers. As they achieve, and the world grows big around them, they achieve greater and greater things, becoming those heroic figures.
Sure, you could start off as an ass-kicker, and finish as an ass-kicker, but there's nowhere near as much journey or discovery to that. Big only looks big when it's set against small. The smaller or more humble you start, the larger the victory, in the end.
Think of it as the difference between the Bond films and the most recent Batman movies. They were both awesome, but you got to see one just kick ass, and the other grow and diminish as a person, through their journey. It's just preference.
Another aspect is living vicariously through our characters. If we start out with the mind set of heros are different people - I could never do that, we wold be less likely to strive to be that person who helps others, tries to solve the mystery etc. Now are we really going to have such instances in our lives - probably not. But if we play with the iss=dea that heroes are normal people who take action in the sight of adversity then we, as players, cen envision and become, the kind of people to they to help, to do something, even stop that guy who just snached that ladies purse ...
This is also, why I tend to play more heroic characters, and dislike evil campaigns. As Mathew said - It's preference.
Sure there's no firing into melee modifier, but there is a cover modifier.
Arrow breakage at 10-20%? ruclips.net/video/qw62NV0bUTg/видео.html
If you're hitting iron or wood, you know the material most armor and shields are made of, that shit is breaking. The only time an arrow might be recoverable is when hitting cloth, flesh, or dirt, and even then if it's hitting a creature, there' s bone which can be tougher than most woods used for shields. There's a reason why archery targets are big cloth, hay, or foam targets, because otherwise those shafts will break.
Arrows were never intended to be recoverable, that's why archers brought wagons full of arrows or bolts, assuming they didn't bring fletchers and blacksmiths as well.
There is a penalty. In 5e you get disadvantage on ranged attacks at melee range.
2:26 seems like unseen servant isnt working wright, i can totally see that hand
manuel acosta mage arm actually it's like mage hand except its an arm and can fix mics
Haha that opening tirade! Ive been DMing a game for about a year now and I don't run encumbrance or ammo counts either. I only skip them however, on the provision that player's dont seek to exploit them with no sense like picking up literally every single thing that gets in their way or obviously overload their characters and make mention when in town etc that theyre stocking up on ammo blah blah. I partially did this to avoid the occasional bog-down with excess maths and inventory management, and partially because I myself wasn't super familiar with all the encumbrance rules early on as well. I feel like now this far into my game though thst suddenly flicking the switch and bringing these rules in would have some fairy radical impact on my party as they tend to run with a fairly bit of gear. Not so much that thwyd have to dump a lot of it but enough that aquiring new gear to carrying would mean in a few cases that they will need to drop other stuff.
fun is all in the eyes of the players, I personally kept the encumbrance rules to make the party make choices, (take the gold statue or rescue a comrade in arms) I found that even though they grumbled in the beginning the understood why after a level or two . it all depends on the group and how they want to play. playing with power gamers can be a bit of a mess when you choose to not be a power gamer and have a character with faults but that is what makes it fun is being able to play in a way that is enjoyable. limits often make for better games
Hello Web DM, have been loving your series on D&D. Anyway, when this came up on my sub feed I had this lurch of fear, as I am a new budding DM (working on a setting first), I wanted to have players keep track on food, water, ammunition, encumberance (on Roll20 it is easier because character sheets can actually calculate weight for you), not being able to speak longer sentences in combat, et cetera.
My first question was: Would this be fun at all? But then I watched the video, and I felt relieved.
I think that when players are actually tracking of things like food and water, it becomes more challenging overall, and would create some situations like "Did you get those waterskins filled up in town? No? Then the desert heat WILL get to you", or "You remembered to get more arrows? Too bad, you have to now use your bow as a melee weapon or pull out your sword, ranger.", which add depth to the game.
I obviously want players to have fun, but I don't want to hand everything to them on a silver platter (not just through difficult combat encounters) - I want it to feel rewarding to reach a high level, and then being able to ignore some of these obstacles and restrictions.
Keeping track of encumbrance is kind of tedious. I just feel my players "good luck carrying 5 war hammers and 2 suits of extra armor". To solve this, the party bought a boat.
As for arrows, I gave my Ranger 15 of those little glass gem tokens to keep track. Shoot an arrow and lose a gem. We didn't care about having extra tokens, as we play a lot of Fantasy Flight games (they have so many tokens).
Poker chips or coins can help a ton.
The restriction I miss most are skills that require training to use. Imo it diminishes the meaning of the skill system and makes the characters feel more homogenous.
Y'all should do a long video about the Unearthed Arcana! :)
Goochburg Adventures
We're working on covering the UA material.
plz
You guys are awesome and you have helped me become a Dungeon Master for my group. Thank you so much!
Daniel Sandefur glad to help!
Daniel Sandefur
You're truly welcome!
One of the most interesting and surprisingly refreshing episodes in a long time. Thanks, guys!
No wonder these guys hate sorcerers; with familiars offering free concentration they'd make wizards infinitely better.
So I was wondering what you guys think about Familiars. I gave my Owl Familiar named Losa a Headband of Intellect and I thought what would happen if I made her an NPC or a PC and gave her a Class and Background. I made her a Cleric of Life because Familiars can't attack for non warlock classes. I just wanna know what you guys think about this.
I think the better question is "What does your DM think about it?" Because that is something you'd want to bring up with your DM...
jeryek13 My DM said they'd allow it because the spell Find Familiar doesn't say a Familiar can't be a PC, NPC or have a Class and Background. He went on to explain it was a really big stretch of the rules but allowed it because all my Familiar can do with a class is heal and use support spells. I thought of the idea of using my Owl Familiar as a Cleric after my party noticeably needed a proper healer and support character because all of the players at my group wanted to play attackers or characters used for solving puzzles and problems rather than healing.
Alright, well there you go.
Galactic NeonLime if I was the dm, I would rule it so if it can talk and make the correct hand gestures, it can cast the spell
Galactic NeonLime also I think Jim and Pruitt had a similar idea
Thinking about incumbrance I try to keep in mind how I felt wearing my full battle rattle back during my 3 tours to Iraq. My first tour we wore our body armor w/ chest and back plates. And our nut guards, then of course helmets and pouches attacked to the armor that contained ammo about 7 magazines full. And then water in the form of camel backs. First aid pouches, hearing protection and maybe a sunglasses or goggles case. And this could vary by individual solder according to his role and such. Later more and more armor plates were added and even heavier plates were added. Then came knee pads and elbow pads during my 2nd tour and 3rd tour. The weight just kept going up with what seemed very little regard for the soldiers bodies to actually withstand that amount of weight for entire days at a time. I personally have jacked up knees and my back is really screwed up because of these kinds of things. Oh yeah plus our rifles we had with us at all times. All that weight and constantly wearing it is why the Army and the VA see so many Iraq veterans now showing up with so many back and lower body injuries. I am currently 70% disabled due to my injuries from wearing all that stuff over there. Plus if you take into account the extra weight we all carried in the form of back packs and ruck sacks during movements to and from country. Yeah its allot of weight. Some guys even bringing duffle bags along as well. We were easily way beyond 100 pnds in gear during these times. So if I hear some player saying "Oh I am going to jump this wall with my Paladin in full plate". I would haft to call bullshit from a realistic point.
Holy shit, they look like 20 years older in this one x D
I find 'no-fun rules' fun af, fam-a-lam. It really immerses me, and I value that above anything else--immersion.
I don't care for Encumberance. I basically only use it when it makes sense. "No, you can't carry a door as a shield like Bram."
I always forget to say I eat so I've just started playing lizardfolk, dragonborn or orcs, so I can just feed on the last battle and hoard the scraps for later consumption.
"Restrictions breed creativity" is my mantra for D&D. And I think you guys nailed it with the idea that everything's allowed.
15:45 Well concentration used to eat up your action every turn, so the new system actually loosened that penalty.
Those intros are being amazing.
DamascoGamer
Thanks!
for weight and carry things, i ask my players where they keep it. got a new sword? where do you keep it? your back is already filled with weapons and so is your belt.
I think I might track special ammo, but not normal ammo, it sucks for a ranger to run out, while the swordsman doesn't run out of sword ammo...
the swordsmen does if you break the sword...
True but that's also lame
Amy thechubbylittlesatan hmmm getting close to the dreaded but that's not fair argument that plagues the game and ruined, to name one example, wizards in the name of balance and fair play.
I think it's something that doesn't really matter enough to ruin the game if you don't track arrows or ammunition, and is kinda lame if the archer has to keep track of extra things and it slows down the game to have to be like "roll to find arrows" after every single encounter. Idk what the dreaded that's not fair argument is :P
Amy thechubbylittlesatan lol it's no biggie. and by raw there is no roll to find. you spend time looking and recover half what you used. takes a minute I think?
early in our game, the Wizard / Cleric was the ammo recovery expert team. Mend Cantrip plus high perception :p
Next episode on rolling vs point buy confirmed.
Arctic Alpaca
We're not going to do another episode on that subject. There would be riots.
Wait, there's still a penalty for ranged attacks in melee iirc. Something like the deepstalker ranger can circumvent that and i believe the Crossbow Master feat does it too, but it's still there unless you're willing to make an investment to get rid of it.
Despite having both played and DM'ed a total of 2 session of 3.5e, I've never really learned the rules of another system besides 5e so it might be that, comparatively, 5e doesn't have a "real" penalty on ranged attacks.
a single point I latched onto 5 mins into a 30 min video... on to watch the rest I guess :P
it's a little unclear, but we were talking about shooting into melee not shooting while engaged in melee, one of the few penalties for ranged left in the game.
It was just unclear to a guy like me who only knows 5e. You specifically use the words "shooting into melee" which I at first misheard, but also I don't know what means, so I assumed you spoke about shooting _in_ melee.
Had to look up what shooting _into_ melee meant. In 5e, there are some optional cover rules and it's also a great opportunity to do something extra with a critical fail. You not only miss, you hit a random ally within a cone. Last part is obviously homebrew and I still haven't cared to look up _exactly_ how shooting into cover worked in other editions.
I used to play with a group (along with the 1st time I played 5th edition) that I went to them wanting to play a Dragonborn paladin; but, the GM was "old school" (as he put it). He would not allow the following races Dark Elves, Dragonborn, Half-Orcs, Tieflings; because they were either too exotic or they are "Monster or NPC" races only. Then he would not allow Fighters using Eldritch Knight, Monks, Paladins with Oath of Vengeance, or Warlocks. It was freaking insane! Like this is the first time a lot of us are playing this edition and you want to take half of the limited options we have? Mind you at this time it was only the three core books.
My husband actually runs a series of one-shot campaigns that we call "You Tried" where we roll 4d6 and drop the highest for stats, so the highest stats cap at 12. It's definitely played as a comedy, like "why are these nobodies trying to fight a dragon???"
In-game the premise is these wannabe adventurers signed up for the guild Development of Early Adventurer Duties (DEAD) that's run by an eccentric wizard who really just wants people to test out his new magic items in the field. (My favorite so far is The Deck of Some Things, which has made our barbarian forget how to read and gave our pixie wizard three wishes if she could manage a handstand, which is the only reason our party escaped the first adventure alive.)
It's not my ideal game of D&D (I'm much more character/story-focused and enjoy the grander scale of adventures), but it's a lot of fun and makes for some pretty great stories to tell later xD
wow that was an intro?
i like the 'video game method' most. the real issue with encumbrance (IMO), and most of these other restrictions, is the book-keeping
arrows do break very frequently IRL. big difference between modern fiberglass arrows fired from sporting bows with a draw-weight of ~50lbs on the high-end, and medieval wooden arrows fired from warbows with upwards of 120lbs of draw-weight.
not to mention Styrofoam targets vs flesh, bone, wood, metal, and stone
as a side note, thats why bows should be strength weapons, nimbleness was not what longbowmen were known for