The Linux vs Windows Gaming debate isn't over

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 17 дек 2024

Комментарии • 838

  • @gronki1
    @gronki1 3 года назад +1229

    As someone who has been driving Linux exclusively since 2015, thank you for your contribution to the Linux Desktop. You called out things that were a problem with Linux, but unlike normal users you had enough power for your voice to be heard. Every of your videos is more bugs fixed and this series caused a stir that was needed.

    • @LuisCaneSec
      @LuisCaneSec 3 года назад +73

      I definitely agree. Like the user experienced is way more polished than it was 5 or 10 years ago and the gaming experience has improved significantly in the last few years, but it still has a ways to go before it's "User proof" It's really easy to take your experience for granted and scoff at someone who's not familiar with command line, but that is something you have to learn over time. I've been using Linux for over a decade on and off and only recently learned that you can use !! to repeat a command (for example sudo !! if you forgot to use sudo for a command.)

    • @3333218
      @3333218 3 года назад +23

      Would love if they kept doing this for like several years to come! Can you imagine what would happen?

    • @cenonmin
      @cenonmin 3 года назад +28

      The Linus challenge is just the thing Linux needs to take it to the next level. I want to get out of Windows and unfortunately for me the issues / challenges I encountered to get my Linux KDE system initially setup so that it is acceptable for use was a lot of effort and I am an IT person and like to tinker, what chance does a normal user have? An example, I cannot believe that even now it takes a lot of effort and searching to get the mouse middle wheel scroll and click-scroll to be close to the level of experience in Windows.

    • @LuisCaneSec
      @LuisCaneSec 3 года назад +13

      I really hope that an expanded user base for Linux gaming brings support for specialized gaming hardware. One thing I can't do in Linux right now is VR. My Oculus Rift S has no Linux support at all.

    • @Aura_Mancer
      @Aura_Mancer 3 года назад +9

      @@LuisCaneSec Thanks for the !! thing

  • @a1g0rhythm
    @a1g0rhythm 3 года назад +487

    Thank you for making me aware of Steam Proton. I built a Linux gaming computer, all my Steam library (except one game) run great and every game in my wishlist is gold or better in Protondb. I bought a Windows gaming computer because ps5 and series x were impossible to get. I am so happy with the easy setup of steam on linux, once Crew 2 runs in linux I'll convert the windows box. Yes Linux gaming for me!

    • @AreWeViral
      @AreWeViral 3 года назад +32

      Welcome to the Linux club!

    • @Milos596
      @Milos596 3 года назад +1

      I only have problem with Medal Of Honor Airborn

    • @wikwayer
      @wikwayer 3 года назад +1

      what do you run ?

    • @silverywingsagain
      @silverywingsagain 3 года назад +17

      I went into linux desktop thinking that I would be losing access to half my steam library, but it was more like a tiny handful of oddball games that never really worked that great to begin with.

    • @TheTurnipKing
      @TheTurnipKing 3 года назад +14

      It's REALLY impressive. I mean, I was able to run native software like Half Life on the box I've been using as a NAS for about eight years, but to say I was mindblown by being able to run Cyberpunk on Linux via Proton and losing very little, if any, performance doing so...
      I mean, I was quite willing to lose the big releases and just play "whatever works", but having stuff like that - as well as older games like Pirates! working too is a gift.
      In the long term, I'd really hope to be seeing Linux native builds, though.

  • @geoffyuendesign
    @geoffyuendesign 3 года назад +343

    One of the biggest reasons I’ve been using Pop OS for the past year is because LTT has been covering Linux sporadically and showing me that it’s a viable alternative. I’m wasn’t even a frequent viewer of LTT until recently. To say that Linus hates Linux is silly.

    • @SnowyRVulpix
      @SnowyRVulpix 3 года назад +5

      I don’t think it’s silly. Linus has had a real bad time, that i know he’s going back to windows and never looking back.

    • @photonboy999
      @photonboy999 3 года назад +70

      @@SnowyRVulpix ,
      Did you actually watch this video?
      Linus literally said he only games on Windows and is fine using Linux for everything else.

    • @entelin
      @entelin 3 года назад +14

      I've used linux for 20+ years. I genuinely feel that Linus has a few valid points, but not many. He's going into it essentially with the premise of comparing the "gaming" experience, aka mostly running windows apps on linux, vs running windows apps on windows. I mean... yeah, by comparison it's not going to be favorable, it's going to require some tinkering and knowledge. I think the hype you feel coming from the linux side on this subject is that for most of the last few decades gaming on linux has effectively not been a thing, and now it actually kinda is, thanks to the huge amount of work Valve and others have put into making it possible and fairly easy. So when I hear Linus ranting about "user experience" issues he had while actually getting most things to work, over just a few weeks, while having no real experience..... That's not a negative, that's incredible. But he doesn't present it as such.
      I think that's the thing that irks me the most about this series. I have always just gamed on windows, I have a separate box in a DMZ, all it does it games, it's a console, nothing more. Recently I decided to try steam on linux and I was legit blown away, I had very low expectations, but most things I cared about worked perfectly, in one case actually better than on windows. The amount of progress that has been made in the last number of years is incredible. But Linus lacks that perspective.
      This video series has mostly been a Linux vs Windows, where when linux is different than windows it get's negative points. He never even really mentions any of the positive points, what things are easier or just plain better on linux. For example the first thing I miss on windows is not being able to alt drag/resize windows, but not even the little things are mentioned. "apt-get install firefox" is apparently an "objectively bad user experience" while having to open up a browser, type in or search for a website, find the download link, find the real download button while not clicking on the spyware and ads, run the installer, click next a bunch of times, etc etc is... good? somehow? Did it ever occur to you that maybe windows & mac have been the ones doing it wrong this whole time and you're just used to it?
      The linux install process is apparently a bad user experience, not an exceptional one in comparison to windows, etc. Few people ever install windows, everyone installs linux, and by and large it's way easier to do so on major distros, it's had to be. That gap has narrowed to some degree, the windows installer has improved, it wasn't that long ago on windows we still had to load drivers using floppy disks that computers didn't even have. But these days most of the windows install process is telling it how you would like to be datamined.
      And then he mentions goxlr not working, which does not claim to have linux support. Why even mention this? It doesn't have support, that's the end of the story. This is literally always true for every OS ever, including windows. But you know, you could run some random shell script you found on github... bad user experience! Get your stuff fact checked before you dump it in a video.

    • @rithvikdsouza1705
      @rithvikdsouza1705 3 года назад +20

      @@entelin Is it so difficult to understand that he's talking about whether it's EASY to move FROM windows TO linux? Of course if something runs on windows but not linux it'll be a negative point for linux, because it's assumed that person X is coming from windows. He never said linux is bad. It's just not the best for people coming from windows with all the peripherals they might have.

    • @entelin
      @entelin 3 года назад +2

      @@rithvikdsouza1705 I'd say his experience showcases that the transition is easier than one should expect. You should never expect, nor criticize linux for being unable, or it being difficult, to run software or hardware that doesn't have support for it. That's not a "negative point" that's just the reality for all OS's ever. So when those things are actually pretty easy, than that zero expectation, then that's something deserving of hype within that context, not derision. GoXLR not working on linux is a negative point for GoXLR, not linux. A windows game not working on linux is a negative point to whoever made that game without linux support, not linux.

  • @DDL4Blue
    @DDL4Blue 3 года назад +250

    The worst part of installing Windows is the part where it is trying to force you to do stuff you don't want to do. Like creating/logging into MS account. And you can only avoid this by disconnecting your network. It does not have the "skip" button. I hate this. I really do.

    • @GlenMerlin
      @GlenMerlin 3 года назад +17

      I hate that too. It's especially annoying because especially with windows 11, display drivers then can't be installed until you connect it to wifi. With no Ethernet you're stuck trying to screw with the wifi settings at the wrong resolution

    • @TheTurnipKing
      @TheTurnipKing 3 года назад +2

      I think I saw suggested someplace that it's not even an option on 11.

    • @boredplayer7425
      @boredplayer7425 3 года назад +1

      @@TheTurnipKing Last time I checked, you need to manually kill it in tasque manager

    • @GlenMerlin
      @GlenMerlin 3 года назад +7

      @@TheTurnipKing on home it's not an option to skip microsoft account creation... on pro or enterprise it's optional

    • @l4kr
      @l4kr 3 года назад +16

      Why does Windows cost money then wtf
      You're providing data and whatnot, you can't even crash a program without Windows sending data lol.
      Like, Windows is actually fkin expensive, the couple hundred bucks is nothing compared to the time you spend waste updating and the privacy you give up...

  • @Ryan6.022
    @Ryan6.022 3 года назад +273

    Linus and Luke were successful I've been using Linux for a few years and it's been impressive seeing the "normal" Linux users changing their tune from "fix it yourself" to "damn their right that shouldn't be like that". It's not everyone mind you but it's been a significant change.

    • @gronki1
      @gronki1 3 года назад +28

      yes, that makes me happy too. i hope this brings the change in attitude and will result in a more polished Linux experience

    • @JC-lk3oy
      @JC-lk3oy 3 года назад +26

      Oh man, you should have been around to enjoy the saltiness of running Linux in the 90s. Getting help past RTFM was difficult to say the least. Things are so much better than they used to be. Definitely lots of room to grow, but it's absolutely improving.

    • @Bob-of-Zoid
      @Bob-of-Zoid 3 года назад +31

      Most of it is the "Developers Mindset", as many of them are so into what they do technically, and outdoing each other... that the end user is often not even a thought, and many developers are not social mavericks to begin with, but rather reclusive. It is slowly changing, as they have been called out for it more often, and have to admit that wide computer adoption started with the GUI, and anyone being able to use them, and they owe it to the GUI and the general public (the largest portion of users) for giving them a platform in the first place.
      To say "You need to master your system" is nonsense, as no one buys a car known to be prone to failure, in order to learn how to become a mechanic!

    • @Bob-of-Zoid
      @Bob-of-Zoid 3 года назад +18

      @@JC-lk3oy Yeah, been there done that! RTFM always lead to RFHOM (Read F'n Hundreds of Manuals), because all of the cross referencing needed to understand 1/10th of what TFM contained! They need to learn the difference between a technical manual, and a user manual. Why make software that can do things in the first place, when only select few can do things with it, or make it have many features and capability only for other developers who may never use the program to understand it's use? I think that developing the GUI portions along with the underlying functionality should be done right from the get go, and have always wondered why programming languages and their tools don't have some automation for that already built in, leaving only the graphical part to some other tools and people more savvy in that area.

    • @neffscape6353
      @neffscape6353 3 года назад +6

      @@JC-lk3oy I think this is due to the "ubuntu effect": when ubuntu came out in 2004, it was really designed to make it "user friendly" and accessible, and many "normal" users actually switched to linux (because of compiz, the rotating cube that made ubuntu and linux popular until 2013). Linux nerds that were previously dominating the linux community switched to Gentoo and Arch and brought their RTFM mantra with them.

  • @Narwaro
    @Narwaro 3 года назад +105

    Linus, you and your team are a rare exception nowadays regarding media. Its really nice to see people do things that make sense and add value to society during times where those kinds of outlets have either diverged into crap or gone under.

  • @mikestaihr5183
    @mikestaihr5183 3 года назад +188

    Your whole thing has been pretty even-handed. I've been using Mint since Win 7 was murdered and had to deal with a few problem myself in the beginning. However, after the first couple of weeks it has been totally stable so far. I am glad that you have done this. It HAS created a buzz that might just shake up the Linux community a bit which might be good.

    • @thrik
      @thrik 3 года назад +1

      Curious, did any of your hardware give you issues when you switched over? Seems like it was a while ago for you so you may not remember too well.
      I switched over to Linux recently and it's been pretty annoying in some ways, can't find solutions. My hardware isn't ridiculous either, just a 4k monitor along with a 1080p monitor.

    • @mikestaihr5183
      @mikestaihr5183 3 года назад +5

      @@thrik My hardware is fairly old so no it wasn't computer components themselves. Problems were essentially with things like bluetooth dongles, an old Canon Scanner, and having to research printer/scanners to find out who had the best support. My printer I opted for was HP since they seem to play well with Linux. The bluetooth thing took some forum post and Google research to fix. Otherwise everything else has been working fine. I haven't really dealt with newer video cards so I can't comment on that. I am getting ready to build a newer rig soon so maybe I might run into some glitches then. You could try some forums--starting with the one on the distro you use. I use Mint so they were pretty tolerant of new users and sometimes Ubuntu since Mint is based on Debian/Ubuntu-- I can't tell you how the Arch/Manjaro or Fedora communities are.

    • @thrik
      @thrik 3 года назад +1

      @@mikestaihr5183 I gotcha and I'm surprised you remembered all that tbh, since it was so long ago for you. As far as my own stuff I just don't think Linux is there yet. My problem is that I have two different monitors with two different resolutions and I can't use Wayland yet because it doesn't support overclocking Nvidia GPUs.

    • @mikestaihr5183
      @mikestaihr5183 3 года назад +3

      @@thrik Back at ya... I don't have to deal with dual monitors on a regular basis and I stuck to AMD for my last two (budget) builds. Haven't had an nVidia card since my old 8600GS--so yeah, there's that. It was easy to remember all those inconveniences because it all happened in the first week or two after I migrated over and since I resolved those issues I just haven't had any other problems... I can't say that there won't be some in the future but for now it does all I ask it to do. Have a good one.. 🙂

    • @johnknight9150
      @johnknight9150 3 года назад +2

      I've got my parents running on Mint (they basically just watch youtube and do emails) and it's been awesome.

  • @scheimong
    @scheimong 3 года назад +115

    Windows almost has an abusive relationship with its users these days. People forget (or simply don't know) how much crap they put up with Windows and how it shouldn't be this way. You know, boiling a frog in warm water kind of stuff. I suspect your Windows revisit video after you're done with Linux challenge might just be the most popular video of this series, funnily enough.

    • @auturgicflosculator2183
      @auturgicflosculator2183 3 года назад +9

      I have probably forgotten 95% of the abuse I've got from Microsoft, but I still view them as one of the most evil bullies in existence.

    • @22981991
      @22981991 3 года назад +2

      Linus, Luke, Win 11 and sneaky Edge tyranny convinced me to switch to Linux (Mint) for home usage.

    • @JustSomeRandomIdiot
      @JustSomeRandomIdiot 3 года назад +2

      > Windows almost has an abusive relationship with its users these days.
      I'd agree with this statement but subtract the word 'almost'.
      Likewise same with Adobe's software.

    • @waltherchemnitz
      @waltherchemnitz 3 года назад +3

      Abusive relationship…. Yup, that’s exactly what it is. I mean seriously, I have windows in a VM on my Linux mint machine. I use it about once a week, just because I can. I started it up Saturday and it’s in a loop where it wants to restart, but wont. I used Virtual box to run it back to the previous week, which worked better than using windows’ own restore feature. In other words, it takes running windows as a guest in Linux in order to improve the windows experience.

    • @RedVRCC
      @RedVRCC 6 месяцев назад

      There are ways around window's bullshit if linux just doesn't work for your use case and thankfully most are 1 or 2 click solutions.
      Winaero Tweaker which can disable forced updates, copilot, cortana, telemetry, and allows enabling long-buried features like the aero theme or extra context menu options.
      OOSU10, W10privacy, Windows 10 debloater powershell script are all primarily meant for disabling the telemetry and bloat.

  • @esenel92
    @esenel92 3 года назад +87

    Maybe it would be fun to take 2 systems at LTTHQ and have Luke and Linus just install and test-drive each other's distro's. So this time Linus gets to install mint, and Luke gets to install manjaro, just so they can compare their "first use" experiences, and to see which distro does what better when it comes to the first time setup.

    • @johnknight9150
      @johnknight9150 3 года назад +1

      I'd also like to see Linus take another punt at Pop! and see what he thinks in retrospect.

  • @liamsweeney4754
    @liamsweeney4754 3 года назад +126

    Linus you are KILLING it, the discourse is simply going to have a positive impact on PC gaming in general

  • @SpressoMan
    @SpressoMan 3 года назад +73

    5:52 This is why I love this series so much!!
    The evolution of Linux over the past 2 decades has put such tremendous pressure on Microsoft to fix their @#$% OS, they actually came up with a half decent OS by Win10. So, I'm a huge fan of Linux' evolution.
    However, Linux (as a community) needs to make Linux less painful (and/or more supported [good tutorials, etc]) if they ever want to be adopted as mainstream.
    I'm pulling for you, Linux. But this uncomfortable spotlight from LMG was necessary and helpful.

    • @d0cx
      @d0cx 3 года назад +11

      In my opinion, Windows 7 was the best version of modern Windows. I really enjoyed how fast the start menu was.

    • @MrWarlock616
      @MrWarlock616 3 года назад

      Microsoft is actually contributing to Linux in many ways, so Win10 wasn't good because Linux is getting better.

    • @l4kr
      @l4kr 3 года назад +6

      You're calling out Linux but the funny part is that Linux is just a kernel.
      It's not a corporation like Microsoft so there's not one company to point at.
      It's basically a big community with many developers and maintainers so if something doesn't work on a Linux distro, you can't really blame a single entity lol

    • @SpressoMan
      @SpressoMan 3 года назад +11

      @@l4kr pretty sure I made it clear I was referring to a community. I even said "as a community..."
      I'm also pretty sure I said I was a big fan and that Linux is the primary reason Windows isn't still a raging pile of poop.
      Any suggestion how I could be any more fair?

    • @Tiky.8192
      @Tiky.8192 3 года назад

      @@l4kr you're missing the point there. It's the Linux ecosystem they're talking about. What software runs on Linux. They never mention the Linux *kernel* in any video.

  • @mdzaid5925
    @mdzaid5925 3 года назад +101

    It's quite frustrating that there is so much delay in linux series

    • @MichaelSmith-fg8xh
      @MichaelSmith-fg8xh 3 года назад

      You have to live with it a while. I did a month on Ubuntu with my work computer and it took at least that long to do a good test. I got most stuff running in the first few days but it took me a month to explore a good range of use cases

    • @mdzaid5925
      @mdzaid5925 3 года назад

      @@MichaelSmith-fg8xh he already has other parts recorded, i think till part 5 it's been recorded

  • @iseceepcool2
    @iseceepcool2 3 года назад +25

    I think the main problem with Linux currently is that it is mainly grass roots and hardware developers not developing software and drivers for it Linux the responsibilities to the community

    • @xybersurfer
      @xybersurfer 3 года назад +5

      a potential problem is also that closed source drivers don't fit well into the development model of Linux

  • @malelonewolf80
    @malelonewolf80 3 года назад +19

    After having watched a few reaction videoes to the Linus Linux challenge it seems to me that many linux users makes a point of that you have to select hardware that runs well on Linux. But from what I gather, that was not in the scope of the challenge. Most who tries Linux does not go on the web and research what hardware is compatible with Linux and then purchase new hardware for that spesific purpose. Most who tries Linux installs it on the system they have, exotic or not. And thus encounter various problems. This is what Linus and co does on the Linux challenge, and their results are valid because of that. On that poing, many who critique the linux challenge fails in their critique, since they do not consider that it is the average windows users that tries Linux, not a Linux pro that sets up a system spesifically for Linux OS. Linus could have gotten some linux compatible hardware to do the test on, and that would give a far more positive outcome. But that outcome would not be representative of most windows users who tries Linux for their first time.

  • @aslant3740
    @aslant3740 3 года назад +50

    I've been working with windows since the windows 98 days and I gotta tell you installing a fresh version of windows 11 was the most frustrating unintuitive thing I've ever had to do, way to go Microsoft

    • @1pcfred
      @1pcfred 3 года назад +6

      You've obviously never tried to install Debian back in the dselect days. OMG that stuff was rough! I'd actually end up in a cold sweat dealing with it.

    • @affieuk
      @affieuk 3 года назад

      How, what's so different that you didn't do with Windows 7+, i.e. download the media creator or iso and 'burn' to a usb stick. Where is the difficulty in that, it's the same process for all the OS's. The only caveat being if you have a hard fail on one of the "mandatory" requirements, where you have to tweak a registry.

    • @amogharsekar1488
      @amogharsekar1488 3 года назад +9

      @@affieuk He's talking about the process of going through with the setup after that, not the installation media creation part that has been the same for many years now.

    • @affieuk
      @affieuk 3 года назад +1

      @@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece When you have multiple drives? Nah, the roulette is still there. I've given up with that and simply make sure only one drive is connected during the install.

    • @1pcfred
      @1pcfred 3 года назад

      @@TriNguyen-he7xk dselect was just diabolically contrary to use. Oh you want that? Well, then you can't have these other things! They should have named it Faust. Because it was like making a deal with the Devil.

  • @rashkae1
    @rashkae1 3 года назад +17

    One of the first things I have to manually change when installing Windows 10 is change my region from United States to Canada. But Since Windows 10 changed to the new, what I still call Metro style interface for the installer, I can't press Can to jump to right item. I have to scroll through the list of *every* country every damn time.

  • @LinxOnlineGames
    @LinxOnlineGames 3 года назад +17

    'Can you switch to day as the average gamer?' - I wouldn't like to be the one who has to quantify the 'average gamer'.
    For a large group of people that answer is yes, however is Linux suitable for you, well that depends.
    Folk who have to choose between Nintendo, Playstation, Xbox, or PC gaming are already familiar with this problem, each has their strengths and weaknesses and you as the consumer decide the level of rough and smooth you're willing to accept.

    • @rajder656
      @rajder656 3 года назад

      The difference is multiplayer games. And i'm not saying that the fault is on the linux side but most online popular games don't work

    • @rajder656
      @rajder656 3 года назад

      @gilkesisking DOESNT MATTER. Does siege works? Does fotnite work?

    • @rajder656
      @rajder656 3 года назад

      @gilkesisking Wait wait what does apple have to do with it. And before the apple v epic case fortnite run perfectly on macs. I still don't see why they as the developers behind EAC wouldn't turn on the AC for linux of their flagship game. That's great that Siege devs are looking to support linux but still i'm not mistaken its a toggle for battle eye too so why ask and not just turn it on. It wont make the game worse on other platforms.

    • @rajder656
      @rajder656 3 года назад

      @gilkesisking The thing is for Adobe they would need to make a new of photoshop for linux. EAC is a toggle and if epic wants to push out eac for linux they should themselves enable it in their own game. They don't need to port anything just enable it. That's it. They said themselves its just a toggle so why not turn it on ? Still the apple point is a non argument. It has nothing to do with toggling on support for it cause they aren't the ones deciding whether the game can or cannot be on the platform when it comes to apple.

    • @rajder656
      @rajder656 3 года назад

      ​ @gilkesisking thats not my point. I literally said at the start thats its not the fault of linux its the fault of devs. " And i'm not saying that the fault is on the linux side but most online popular games don't work"

  • @JuanCAraujoS
    @JuanCAraujoS 3 года назад +50

    One great thing about FOSS is how fast can things be corrected. If Linus blew Windows's GUI, Microsoft would still be in the middle of bureaucratic debates before an update that might fix the problem.

    • @petebateman143
      @petebateman143 3 года назад +2

      My record response from a dev with a new fixed version is two hours....

    • @JuanCAraujoS
      @JuanCAraujoS 3 года назад +1

      @@petebateman143 awesome!

  • @olwynskye417
    @olwynskye417 Год назад +3

    Being a Linux gamer is kind of like being a vegan. You need to constantly remind everyone of it to the point of exhaustion, but behind the scenes when push comes to shove and there are no more fruits laying around, you'll boot up Windows from your secret drive and sink your teeth into the freshest roadkill you can find.

  • @Bob-of-Zoid
    @Bob-of-Zoid 3 года назад +22

    Linus: About KDE Dolphin: Go into the settings and make it do what you want it to, and download some extensions (even make your own if you can, which is not that hard). It's stripped down out of the box so that computing illiterates don't do potentially harmful things to their files. There isn't a more versatile and capable File manager I know of, that is so easy to use and feature rich once setup for your needs. The one in windows doesn't even come close, not by miles.

    • @l4kr
      @l4kr 3 года назад +6

      It has a terminal too so basicaly dolphin can do anything lol

  • @NiSE_Rafter
    @NiSE_Rafter 3 года назад +20

    I don't remember what game it was but my friends and I have experienced that one controller handling multiple players issue on remote play too. Although, was more like everyone's controller could connect but some inputs from some people overwrote others. So like person A and person B can mostly play just fine with the sticks and face buttons, but when person B uses his D-Pad it also controlled person A's D-Pad. It was very strange.

    • @slendydie1267
      @slendydie1267 3 года назад

      Happened to me too. Remote play 2 people and my PC controlled both people for some reason

    • @foxmamer
      @foxmamer 3 года назад

      Yup, same, I blame Windows and it's input manager

  • @atenga5881
    @atenga5881 3 года назад +24

    Towerfall has other controller issues I've experienced that leads me to believe the game is probably at fault here. It was an ouya exclusive originally so it could still have some janky code.

    • @foxmamer
      @foxmamer 3 года назад +6

      I've had that exact same issue they described on other games, so I think it has to do more with how windows and steam interpret controller inputs, because I noticed that games that use the default input libraries just keep getting this errors. I think that's why Luke said they didn't have that many issues when doing it on Linux

  • @JamesLewis
    @JamesLewis 3 года назад +30

    Perhaps you should also buy a "pre-installed" Linux system... and compare the experience to a pre-installed Windows system.

    • @dogunboundhounds9649
      @dogunboundhounds9649 3 года назад +5

      Tbf, there wouldn't be much difference for linus. He said that other than gaming, Linux is great.
      Also, I don't think any pre-built gaming rig comes with kinux installed except the steam deck, so he couldn't really compare what really matters. Gaming.

    • @RedVRCC
      @RedVRCC 6 месяцев назад

      The only thing that you can get preinstalled with linux that could actually game that I know of off the top of my head is the framework 16 laptop. It has GPU expansion modules available for it so it could game.

  • @kanishkachakraborty
    @kanishkachakraborty 3 года назад +36

    The reason people tell you not to use Manjaro is that it's a bad distro. It delays packages but that does not translate to any extra testing - it just breaks more packages because the AUR expects up-to-date packages. Manjaro also had some really bad issues with their fund management and there was some controversy.

    • @neffscape6353
      @neffscape6353 3 года назад +3

      Well... no. I don't think it's a bad distro. It's actually pretty stable and well curated imho. I switched to it in june and I was ready to hop to something else at the first problem. But so far I had a wonderful experience... so I'm still daily driving it.

    • @thenujansandramohan8930
      @thenujansandramohan8930 3 года назад +2

      it delays packages for stability( which is awesome because i didnt have to go through the problems KDE Plasma 5.23 caused and if you need packages immediately then switch unstable branch it is a single command . AUR expects up to date packages ?? i 'm on stable branch(delayed packages) but i have never had issues with aur packages and i have 36 AUR packages I have never even seen someone from the manjaro forum complain about maybe i was blind can you provide links Maybe a very low percentage of aur applications cause problem if so we have snaps and flatpaks. Fund management issues arent so bad . we actually dont know what happened there clearly so speaking about that is somewhat stupid .
      I first started off with ubuntu and i hated it as much as i hated windows but then i came to manjaro i'm lovin it .

    • @kanishkachakraborty
      @kanishkachakraborty 3 года назад

      @@neffscape6353 If it works well for you, that's great. I've used Manjaro in the past and it broke a lot, had extreme compatibility issues and just wasn't usable.
      All I can say, is good luck with updates.

    • @kanishkachakraborty
      @kanishkachakraborty 3 года назад +2

      @@thenujansandramohan8930 Adding a delay does not magically increase stability. Known broken packages have been released into Manjaro "stable" days after the problems being reported. Just because the system hasn't broken yet doesn't mean it's stable - Manjaro "Stable" with AUR is a ticking time bomb.

    • @thenujansandramohan8930
      @thenujansandramohan8930 3 года назад

      @@kanishkachakraborty yeah you are right it doesn't magically increase stability but some packages never make it to stable plasma 5.23.1 and plasma 5.23.2 didn't so we get the stability we want and if you don't like it as i said you can always switch manjaro gives what you want then why are screaming ?

  • @danielkobi6338
    @danielkobi6338 3 года назад +47

    Honestly, I'm just glad they get to talk about Linux, it's a good thing in general because of the large audience of normies they have, it can definitely create more Linux-enthusiast people. However, gaming has never been the reason of my switch... It's been more about privacy, customization and real control over what comes in & out of my machine.

    • @jebril
      @jebril 3 года назад +10

      I've probably been using Linux longer than you and I hate people who use the term normies unironically, such a insulting term IMO.

    • @Booruvcheek
      @Booruvcheek 3 года назад +3

      @@jebril is not

    • @xybersurfer
      @xybersurfer 3 года назад +2

      @@Booruvcheek yes. it is insulting

    • @xybersurfer
      @xybersurfer 3 года назад +9

      i don't consider their audience "normies", especially compared to others. i think it says more about you, thinking you are somehow special for using Linux

    • @V1CT1MIZED
      @V1CT1MIZED 3 года назад +1

      @@xybersurfer they are special, mentally and socially

  • @sauve76
    @sauve76 3 года назад +22

    I don't get why few in the Linux community have reacted to Linus Linux posts...for me it's easy...it's taking the step as a newbie diving into Linux with no knowledge ...and for that is great as someone looking at this sees this as a useful show....so those who are upset...wow really.

    • @drsparklagasm
      @drsparklagasm 3 года назад +11

      Linus didn't really do any research or take the time to learn some linux concepts, which pretty much set him up to have a bad time. Approaching it this way, he'd probably have just as frustrating a time if he moved to Mac having never used one before. And that's not really a dig against him, he's a busy guy, so it makes sense. But to a linux user, it comes across as lazy because even a noob would at least slow down and take the time to figure something out before criticizing it. Theres valid points on both sides, but the internet is the internet so everyone is butthurt.

    • @1pcfred
      @1pcfred 3 года назад +2

      I deal with stuff regularly on Linux that I have no knowledge of. Thing is I know what I don't know. I make it a point to find out too.

    • @MajiriTadakichi
      @MajiriTadakichi 3 года назад +8

      @@drsparklagasm "but to a Linux user..." that's literally the point, to share the experience as someone, making the switch, who isn't familiar with Linux.

    • @dirlrido2522
      @dirlrido2522 3 года назад +3

      @@AdhityaMohan No one is forcing you to use the terminal on most distros at all. If you want to learn it, good for you. It's often quicker and more powerful than any GUI can be.

    • @l4kr
      @l4kr 3 года назад +6

      @@AdhityaMohan As if - searching for an installation exe file on various websites, making sure you're downloading the correct version with the correct architecture (x86 or x64), then running the installation file, clicking through the "next" buttons - was a modern way of installing programs
      In Linux, it's literally one command or you can use the graphical interface to search and one click
      Talk about 80s...

  • @saycheeseordie4458
    @saycheeseordie4458 3 года назад +17

    This LTT Linux thing is so rapid, we may see "Switching to FreeBSD for gaming" in the next few years. I mean seriously, Wine exists for FreeBSD and as I've recently discovered - amd drivers for FreeBSD are quite usable at this point. :)
    Really appreciate you covering Linux. As a 10+ years Linux user and administrator, I could not be happier seeing so much attention brought to Linux (gaming side of it specifically) thanks to you.
    I think in some cases gaming experience even better than on Windows. I was recently playing around with win11, and I got so frustrated with unability to easily move fullscreen game from one monitor to another while it's running, it's just awfull. In Gnome, for example, you can do it with 2 operations (in 'overview' mode you literally drag it to your second monitor and that's it). I'm just saying.
    BTW: yes, Linux, not GNU\Linux. Remember, kids: name the operating environment after the kernel.

    • @TAP7a
      @TAP7a 3 года назад

      Ah yes, but NT 10 and the recent 11 cover 85% of the consumer desktop space, which makes baseline support for it a default expenditure for almost all developers selling to consumers ;)

    • @skywz
      @skywz 3 года назад +2

      @Jack of Games The 4.23% is probably a combination of Win7, WinXP, BSD OSs, and Linux users who just don’t report because privacy, probably.

    • @PixLgams
      @PixLgams 3 года назад

      Oh really? That means Linux is actually the biggest gaming platform out of all of them. Too bad no one takes touch controls seriously though.

    • @thefirehawk1495
      @thefirehawk1495 3 года назад +1

      BSD was always rock solid for me compared to Linux.

    • @skywz
      @skywz 3 года назад

      @Jack of Games There is no way that more people would be using Vista than XP.

  • @linuxretrogamer
    @linuxretrogamer 3 года назад +14

    I'm not sure about Linux for gaming, but for everything else I'm happy to ditch Windows.
    For PC gaming I see nothing wrong with dual booting if running in a VM with 3D GPU pass through (like VirtualBox) doesn't give good results.

    • @PixLgams
      @PixLgams 3 года назад +6

      What people tend to forget is that Wine and Proton are *workarounds* to the lack of native support. The games you run through it may be optimized for Proton but they're still fundamentally Windows games and as such there will always be some jank involved.
      Valve is working on Proton to make Linux gaming viable, but to actually compete there needs to be game developers willing to employ a "Linux first" approach to showcase how much you can get out of the system if you actually optimize for it.

    • @linuxretrogamer
      @linuxretrogamer 3 года назад +3

      @@PixLgams It's a little chicken and egg, and always has been thus the need for Proton/Wine.
      I think the biggest issue from a dev point of view would be which Kernel/Userland do you target?
      Other popular Unix-y environments with good(ish) gaming support doesn't have this fragmentation problem (Mac, Android, Playstation).
      This is somewhat highlighted by Linus failing with Apt on a distro that doesn't support it.

    • @petebateman143
      @petebateman143 3 года назад +1

      @@PixLgams Totally correct, and I wish LTT had made a much bigger point of this.

    • @mek101whatif7
      @mek101whatif7 3 года назад +1

      For that you already need 2 gpus

    • @linuxretrogamer
      @linuxretrogamer 3 года назад +1

      @@mek101whatif7 Virtualbox does 3D acceleration with your existing (single) GPU for DX8/9 and OpenGL. If that's not good enough (eg req. newer DX) then dual booting is a sensible option (assuming Proton doesn't work).

  • @srijan4622
    @srijan4622 3 года назад +9

    I think Gnome files added the functionality of opening a zip file directly from the explorer right after you guys talked about it on stream. That was so cool knowing how much of an effect a small suggestion from people like you lead to immediate action in the linux community.

    • @l4kr
      @l4kr 3 года назад +4

      Yeah that's how open source community works.
      Devs actually listen and take action, it's actually normal here.

    • @bufordmaddogtannen
      @bufordmaddogtannen 3 года назад +1

      @@l4kr are you sure? Gnome now defaults to the overview once you login.
      The reason from the gnome developers is "Nobody wants to log into an empty desktop, so it makes more sense to open the overview".
      Users asked this to be an option. The gnome developers said no.
      Guess what? THERE IS A FRIGGING NEW EXTENSION ON THE MARKET NOW. 🤬

    • @Henrik_Holst
      @Henrik_Holst 3 года назад +4

      Gnome files have had that functionality since decades ago (long before Windows added it). It's the KDE Dolphin that Linus used that don't have that functionality (or so he claims, I don't know since I don't use KDE).

    • @ClifffSVK
      @ClifffSVK 3 года назад

      @@Henrik_Holst Dolphin has that feature. It can be enabled in the settings.

    • @Henrik_Holst
      @Henrik_Holst 3 года назад

      @@ClifffSVK Well then I don't know what the problems LTT had was unless he missed that setting, not sure why KDE decided that it should be a setting either and not default behaviour but I digress.

  • @unicorn.mushroom
    @unicorn.mushroom 3 года назад +18

    I've recently been playing around 3D mesh software. My laptop has an AMD GPU which doesn't play well with the software on Linux, most of which only supports Nvidia CUDA and the free software that does support AMD was for Windows. My Laptop is dual boot, so I installed it on Windows and it worked well. Laptop is pretty new so I pretty much started my daily driving Linux just before the LMG Linux challenge. In that time, I think I only boot into Windows enough for 2 updates. This weekend I learned that Windows update can also update the UEFI. I learned of this because it corrupted my UEFI and I had to understand what happened. My ROG sound was messed up, sounded kind of like a game or video freezing and the audio stuttering, it was jarring. Then, in both Windows and Linux I had no touchpad. Did you know automatic UEFI updates was a thing? I just learned of this. Unless it's a security or stability (assuming I'm experiencing stability issues) update for my UEFI I don't want it updated, too risky. When I learned of this, I was so mad. I have since learned I can disable the firmware update drivers for my motherboard. To further slap me in the face, after the Windows update it tried to make me create a cloud account and some other services I refused when I initially setup Windows on that laptop. I didn't want it then why do I want it now? I had to navigate that without a touchpad (and no external input devices). Super mad. So not only did the Windows update try to brick itself, it tried to brick my main OS... well it tried to brick the hardware both require to run on. I managed to flash the UEFI through the motherboard's UEFI flash utility and in the end restored my laptop, an experience that I should not have had in the first place

    • @Bob-of-Zoid
      @Bob-of-Zoid 3 года назад +5

      Sorry you are wrong! Linux and AMD have always played well with each other. Cuda has been around for a lot longer than AMD's new equivalent, and since most FOSS software developers are volunteers who do it on the side, and don't get paid, you can't expect them to implement changes as fast as corporations, and the latter is slower than they should be, while Linux developers are faster and more precise about it than you can ask for. Add to that, that NVIDIA although they have improved their support for Linux, it seems to always be way low on their list of priorities, where as AMD has taken an active role of support, so that which you are complaining about should be fixed soon.
      BTW: Just saying "Linux software" is too vague to know what you are talking about, and I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't already ways to make whatever it is you say doesn't play well work. If you say what software it is you are talking about by name, I bet any Linux user could and would point you in the right direction. Also: Linux is community driven, so be part of the community, go to the software's forums, report bugs, make suggestions and ask for features, help out where you can, and even donate to developers, those are what drives Linux to become better, not selling you pipe dreams, and seeing you the user as a product!

    • @Henrik_Holst
      @Henrik_Holst 3 года назад +11

      @@Bob-of-Zoid No she is not wrong, she is not talking about AMD support in Linux, she is specifically talking about 3D mesh software being almost CUDA exclusive and they are. OpenCL which is AMD:s "version" of CUDA came to the Linux driver so late that everyone had already moved on to use CUDA exclusively. There is also the problem that AMD only have OpenCL support in their closed PRO divers and not in their much better open mesa drivers.
      So for this specific use case, 3d mesh, she is completely correct.

    • @naraydaniels7832
      @naraydaniels7832 3 года назад

      Wait WHAT, I literally got a AMD gpu so I could be more compatible with my other OS’ like Linux and Windows and now you’re telling me that AMD is bad too? Gah Lee so what do I choose

    • @ChaoticNox
      @ChaoticNox 3 года назад

      Windows didn't try to brick your machine, it most probably assume you are only running a single OS so the fault lies on you even though you didn't know that's just how it is.

    • @unicorn.mushroom
      @unicorn.mushroom 3 года назад

      @@naraydaniels7832 Your probably fine with your AMD gpu. I'm gaming on an AMD gpu on PopOS

  • @1pcfred
    @1pcfred 3 года назад +17

    Linus Torvalds runs a Threadripper. He builds a lot of kernels so he can use the processing power.

  • @gerowen
    @gerowen 3 года назад +3

    16:41 I could see including crapware like Candy Crush if the product was free and they were trying to subsidize the cost of development, but Windows is a paid for product. Whether you paid for it as a bundle with your PC, or paid for an individual license for your custom built gaming rig, real life currency was transferred from you to Microsoft in exchange for the use of Windows, therefore it should not come with any pre-installed third party garbage. The only exception to this might be people who don't activate it during install, since they might not have paid for it.

    • @bufordmaddogtannen
      @bufordmaddogtannen 3 года назад

      If you don't activate Windows 10 the only limitation you have is the lack of customization. For the rest it will keep working. So effectively it's free nowadays.
      "Free for free" the LTSC version doesn't have all the crap the home and pro versions come with.

  • @johnbovay8353
    @johnbovay8353 3 года назад +4

    How to determine the degree of Linux support for the various chipsets which comprise your rig:
    1) Learn which chipsets comprise your rig.
    2) Search each one in turn thusly: (model and revision number of the chipset), Linux
    3) Doing the above in sum will tell you the minimum Linux kernel version you need to use.
    4) Choose the easiest-to-use Distribution which has that kernel version or newer.
    Alternately:
    Choose the latest version of Linux Mint Cinnamon that's at least 2 years newer than the newest chipset in your rig and then make use of the Linux Mint Forums for any additional assistance.

  • @masaufuku1735
    @masaufuku1735 3 года назад +7

    I understand Linus' reasoning for picking Manjaro. And for what he did, he's probably right - Manjaro wasn't a roadblock. But that's likely a combination of not using Manjaro for particularly long and, more importantly, not extensively using packages from the Arch User Repository (user submitted and maintained package builds).
    Manjaro is a decent enough "arch with training wheels distro" - but where Manjaro really starts causing problems is when you get into AUR packages due to it's repositories being delayed by weeks or even months from the Arch repositories. While you can occasionally run into issues in the main Manjaro repositories when they decide to hold a package back "for testing" and accidentally break dependencies, this is primarily a problem for the AUR (and third-party repositories) because those packages are maintained with the assumption that you'll have the latest updates available in the main repositories and, as a result, you'll quickly find packages you can't install or can't update because Manjaro hasn't updated a dependency yet.
    Switching to the unstable branch of Manjaro alleviates this issue substantially (unstable is a 1 day old clone of the Arch repositories), but it still doesn't eliminate it - and you shouldn't need to switch to the unstable branch of a distribution to get core functionality.

    • @zepar_
      @zepar_ 3 года назад +2

      thats the issue i hear the most about too, but using manjaro myself, i barely have anything from the aur installed, especially nothing "critical" like a library or a different kernel

    • @mek101whatif7
      @mek101whatif7 3 года назад

      The only problem I ever had of manjaro + aur was that linux-mainline was lacking some modules procompiled into the manjaro kernel. Aside from that...

    • @masaufuku1735
      @masaufuku1735 3 года назад +1

      @@mek101whatif7 I ran it as my primary OS on both my desktop and laptop for ~2 years from 2017 to 2019 and each time I installed it (probably 5 times between my desktop and laptop) I would run into dependency issues with the AUR that forced me to switch to unstable to get stuff working, usually within a week.
      Good to hear that you didn't run into those issues though.

    • @mek101whatif7
      @mek101whatif7 3 года назад

      @@masaufuku1735 What packages may I ask?

    • @masaufuku1735
      @masaufuku1735 3 года назад

      @@mek101whatif7 I don't remember anymore at this point - it was several different packages over the two years I used Manjaro, but it's been a few years since I last used it.

  • @edwardecl
    @edwardecl 3 года назад +15

    If you are familiar the computers you can absolutely switch to Linux for gaming. If you are new to computers and all you to is browse the web and play card games you can absolutely switch to Linux. If you use Windows and have a lot of proprietary programs such a Photoshop and expect things to just work (not that they do on Windows anyway) and want stuff like gamepass, then no.
    Yes I know at the moment anti-cheat is an issue for Linux, but it is being worked on and will imminently be less of a problem.

  • @lownitro1385
    @lownitro1385 3 года назад +18

    As they have said, their criticism have generated some improvements to the user experience in Linux at all, but gaming, music production and video editing are still things i probably won't be doing in Linux for some time.
    (for me, the 3 or 4 games i want to play works just fine, but this doesn't even count lol, plus using Ableton Live through Wine just sucks - installing it is the easiest thing, but i can't use ASIO in Wine so the performance is plain horrible + idk how to install my VSTs)

  • @SEL_69
    @SEL_69 3 года назад +6

    The fact that Windows is mostly consumed on pre-built machines is a massive factor! By definition it means that pretty much only "enthusiasts" will every want to install it manually. With Linux there is effectively no choice! Therefore to get "normal" consumers to use Linux the experience has to be more seamless than Windows to install and setup, because you DONT HAVE TO INSTALL WINDOWS if you don't want to. You buy a PC and windows works (ok, probably comes with a load of useless bloat, but people don't notice of know any different). This is pretty harsh on Linux of course, but that is the reality of it.

    • @Nnda8731
      @Nnda8731 2 года назад

      Linus Torvalds has said the same thing many times

  • @NerdLFG
    @NerdLFG 3 года назад +7

    From the late 90's to now. All the PCs I've owned I have installed windows myself. (Windows 3.1 and on) The one time I did not, is when I got a laptop for school with Windows 2000 on it. So for me, the installation process is the default for me, and will be going forward without a doubt. Though I had the impression people like me were the majority? I'm getting the impression I am mistaken.

    • @pilotavery
      @pilotavery 3 года назад +4

      80% of people don't even know how to reinstall Windows

    • @petebateman143
      @petebateman143 3 года назад +3

      @@pilotavery 75% of people don't even know that OS is a choice.

  • @00SNIVY00
    @00SNIVY00 3 года назад +4

    The preinstalled things like games on Windows is pretty annoying now that it's brought up. The fact that they don't include the regular games like solitaire and minesweeper like what existed in Windows 7 and instead have Microsoft store downloads that have ads in them is annoying.
    Microsoft going to an ad based and subscription model for everything is annoying.

  • @toosafelol
    @toosafelol 3 года назад +10

    only "thing" i had about pt2 is that some of the things you mentioned like the github wasn't a linux issue however still very relevant to the experience/challange and this made linux look worse than it is to any people considering a switch for the first time.
    At the same time I love to see how an "end user" interacts with all this stuff and this can be used moving forward for linux (distros) to improve the UX

  • @richardrisner921
    @richardrisner921 3 года назад +2

    I can't get over how awful it is to have to use a terminal to install a program. It isn't 1977 anymore and my time isn't worthless.

  • @Blockbuster2033
    @Blockbuster2033 3 года назад +1

    Biggest problem for Linux currently is that many programs apart from games just don't have a Linux version. I would love to switch, but I use Solidworks, Adobe Premiere and Adobe Lightroom, which all don't have a Linux version, almost daily. Drivers for my Fanatec steering wheel only exist for windows. The update suite for my Sena motorcycle intercom only has a Windows version. Basic stuff like that makes it impossible for me to switch my only computer to Linux even tho I would love to do so.

  • @angryoldcanadian3905
    @angryoldcanadian3905 3 года назад +3

    Gatekeeping is a HUGE problem with the Linux community. It is filled with Zealots. As someone who has been using Linux since the mid 1990's on Slackware (kernel 1.2.3 I believe), your points are 100% correct.
    Linux Desktop will NEVER become mainstream until these problems are solved.
    I still run into problems on my Linux system that your average user would have a huge problem with.
    Gnome 3 does suck :)

  • @mdzaid5925
    @mdzaid5925 3 года назад +12

    Processor's are never a problem on linux, infact linus torvalds use a threadripper machine to compile & test kernels. It's just that if processor is very new, then it's better to go with short term release version of linux kernel, else definitely lts.

  • @fsaavedrap
    @fsaavedrap 8 месяцев назад +1

    I wonder if this challenge needs to be repeated now that the popularity of Steam Deck has done a lot for linux gaming.

  • @jordanmartinetti8224
    @jordanmartinetti8224 3 года назад +3

    In terms is user testing these Linux challenges are a wet dream. It's insane how much valuable experience you can get from this testing.

  • @jonathanmathai9269
    @jonathanmathai9269 3 года назад +22

    I would love the see other members of LTT do the Linux challenge as well

    • @Zabomafooable
      @Zabomafooable 3 года назад +2

      I would pay so much money for a Dennis Linux challenge

    • @jonathanmathai9269
      @jonathanmathai9269 3 года назад +2

      @@Zabomafooable or Sarah butts

  • @stoodent1975
    @stoodent1975 3 года назад +1

    I could never get Windows 10 to install on my computer it got through the install process went to the sitting up process and then errored out every time

  • @GTFour
    @GTFour 3 года назад +3

    The windows bloat that’s almost impossible to remove is absolutely infuriating.

  • @maschinen181
    @maschinen181 3 года назад +10

    MAN, the amount of people commenting their take here without actually watching the video is hilarious

  • @jorgvespermann5364
    @jorgvespermann5364 3 года назад +4

    I started with a C64 way back in 1982 and switched to Amiga in 87 and in 99 i switchet my prsonal rig to win 98. May 2018 I switched to vanilla Arch. Everytime I switched I had problems and i was breaking things but Linux-gaming made lots of progress in the last years mostly thanks to Valve. Im quite happy how my mashine works today.

  • @brianhsu_hsu
    @brianhsu_hsu 3 года назад +1

    11:05 Totally agree. Each OS has their strength and weakness. An OS is better in one domain, doesn't mean it's perfect for every domain.
    I personally use all major system myself (Linux for my personal computing and software development / MacOS for work forced by company policy / Windows for some game that doesn't work on Linux).
    They all have their props and cons, and I don't think anyone of them is really perfect. For example, many people say MacOS is easy to use and any dump can use it, yes, in some degree. But once you have really complex multi monitor setup, it's become a pain to use MacOS, there is just simply not enough built-in tool to make it work as you intended to be.

    • @bufordmaddogtannen
      @bufordmaddogtannen 3 года назад +1

      And yet when you look at the tools included in macos, and what they offer, there is a lot to be desired in Linux land.
      Two examples: disk utility, the dock (copied one hundred times in looks, but not in functionality).

    • @petebateman143
      @petebateman143 3 года назад

      I agree. To me Windows is a glorified X-Box

  • @TheWoblinGoblin
    @TheWoblinGoblin 2 года назад +2

    I've been daily driving Linux for years. Your points were spot on and I really liked your series, especially because it showed the experience of average users. My gaming is limited to compatible Singleplayer games, so I'm fine most of the time, but when seeing your streaming and multiplayer requirements, I really knew how tough it would be.
    Thanks

  • @VV-nw4cz
    @VV-nw4cz 3 года назад +1

    9:59 - no, your problems were not arch related, but as you admitted it, the solutions for the problems were discussed with tools like apt in mind. So as a beginner who has any other goal than just "learn" in mind you should stick with ubuntu or a derivative, until you know your way around linux. And then - its time to experiment.

  • @peq42_
    @peq42_ 3 года назад +4

    ARM windows is a necessity. ARM is, no matter what, the future of PCs, all it needs is CPUs with more performance(which we will see in this decade, due to competition having to catch up with apple's M1) and boom. It brings a bunch of benefits over x86(such as lasting longer and not requiring active cooling, due to its extreme efficiency).

    • @foxmamer
      @foxmamer 3 года назад

      It is not the future of PCs, but it is a necessary alternative, x86 it's just bloated at this point. What Apple has done with ARM on Macs is amazing, but I still don't think it's the future of desktops, I hope other open source command sets take the center place in the future

    • @liblevi45s53
      @liblevi45s53 3 года назад

      ARM definitely is the future, but we'd need to find a way to emulate x64 instructions otherwise older software won't work. ARM and x64 are completely incompatible with each other. Software has to be ported or written for it. Also x86 became obsolete a decade ago.

    • @dirlrido2522
      @dirlrido2522 3 года назад

      @@liblevi45s53 If x86 became obsolete a decade ago we wouldn't still be using it. There are benefits and drawbacks to both. Even RISC-V could become viable.

    • @bufordmaddogtannen
      @bufordmaddogtannen 3 года назад

      @@dirlrido2522 RISC-V will bring us back to the 80s where every system was incompatible with each other, as it promotes hardware fragmentation.
      It could be like watching a re-run of the MSX standard.

    • @dirlrido2522
      @dirlrido2522 3 года назад

      @@bufordmaddogtannen For embedded systems it sounds like it could be great from what I know. Either way there's no perfect outcome no matter the architecture.

  • @the_undead
    @the_undead Год назад +1

    I find it funny how this video ends and then like a month-and-a-half later is when Microsoft announced that they're going to buy Activision

  • @MrYossarianuk
    @MrYossarianuk 3 года назад +3

    Would be good to re-visit the challenge (maybe a more simple - install Linux and play games challenge..) 6 - 12 months from now and see what's improved .. (plus when SteamOS v3 is out), anti-cheat is coming and there are improvements coming to kernel 5.17 (some to 5.16) that will directly improve gaming performance (via Proton and native), plus various GPU and network improvements. Also the audio system is being replaced completely (pipewire) in some desktops/distros

    • @neffscape6353
      @neffscape6353 3 года назад +1

      I would also try PopOS again, because it is actually a pretty good distro. Too bad there was that bug....

    • @MrYossarianuk
      @MrYossarianuk 3 года назад

      @@neffscape6353 It really is, and better for gaming than Ubuntu, for example popOS 20.04 just updated their kernel to 5.15 (which is higher than Ubuntu 21.10, which has 5.13).
      Although I still think arch based is best for new hardware

  • @Play-On7
    @Play-On7 3 года назад +3

    The intriguing thing about this whole saga is the split between the Linux users.
    People who daily drive Linux are either on the side of agreeing that somethings can be done better, or that the hurdles of using Linux are part of the Linux experience.
    Me personally I have not had any issues with Windows 10 in my personal rig outside of a BSOD caused by a bad driver.

    • @1pcfred
      @1pcfred 3 года назад

      There's always room for improvement. Easier isn't always better either. If you never have to make any effort you're never going to learn anything either.

  • @thering0010
    @thering0010 3 года назад

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but weren't the "fixes" made by Pop and Debian just changes to how that warning pops up? You're still potentially gonna bork your system if you try to install or uninstall stuff before the system is properly updated (which is its own issue for sure). Never been a big fan of Apt for this reason... Stuff just seems to like breaking for me. Or I guess it used to when I was still using it

  • @krazymist6950
    @krazymist6950 3 года назад +2

    Remember running Mint on a CD (was a long time ago). Could be installing at the same time as I was using it.

  • @aaronmhanson
    @aaronmhanson 3 года назад +1

    I had quite the adventure trying to get a bootable usb working (from Microsoft's ISO download) to install Windows on a NUC after years of Linux. Being familiar with Raspberry Pis and other straight forward disk images I found it rather frustrating getting it to play nicely with UEFI and needing to brush up on splitting the image in order to make the FAT32 partition happy. I'm sure it's considerably easier with an existing Windows machine, but not having one made it more work than it should have been.

  • @toggtlas7099
    @toggtlas7099 2 года назад +3

    Oh Microsoft reevaluated their relationship with Activision Blizzard alright...

    • @Zeryther
      @Zeryther 2 года назад

      just thought the same thing lol

  • @Airbag888
    @Airbag888 3 года назад

    I'm on pop os (been a week) and still can't figure out why my dual monitors don't go in standby... Most of the experience is not horrible but some things seemingly no one has a solution for

  • @joedoe9958
    @joedoe9958 3 года назад +1

    Hey Luke, when reloading Mint try the the XFCE mint edition. The XFCE is cinnamon but just better with panels that you can place where ever you want. Cannot use Linux without XFCE..

    • @WR3ND
      @WR3ND 3 года назад +2

      Yeah, Xfce seems hugely underrated by the hypesters.

  • @SyphistPrime
    @SyphistPrime 3 года назад +1

    You didn't even mention how you were thanked for helping make such a drastic change to apt. They dropped the "Yes, do as I say." thing and made you use a command line argument instead.

  • @Artista_Frustrado
    @Artista_Frustrado 3 года назад +3

    i have the feeling that a lot of people were wanting for Free Linux Advertisement/Validation rather than actual critique, but thank you for voicing concerns that the Linux community is addressing
    so so far my biggest gripe with Linux is the lack of Propiatary Hardware support, which means anything Wacom is borderline unusable (not that the Wacom software is that good on Windows mind you); also Logitech doesn't wich for most products it's ok except for the MX Ergo that has a ridiculously high DPI on default; & because you can't just install .exe files it means I can't really fix that

    • @samuraiBSD
      @samuraiBSD 3 года назад +2

      I think the MX Ergo is supported by Piper, which is a Linux mouse configuration tool. I think there are some things not yet fully supported, like remapping one particular button, but things like DPI are fine as far as I'm aware.

    • @dirlrido2522
      @dirlrido2522 3 года назад +1

      @@Artista_Frustrado Only the hardware developers themselves can fix that issue. It's up to them to support Linux or not. I find it rather incredible just how much proprietary hardware the open source community has managed to make work.

    • @dirlrido2522
      @dirlrido2522 3 года назад +1

      @@Artista_Frustrado It's up to the hardware manufacturers to create Linux drivers though. That's not something someone who works on the kernel can really do themselves. If Logitech for example want their devices to be fully Linux compatible out of the box, they need to either make a driver for it, or provide an open source framework so someone else can.
      It's annoying because very few companies will do that due to them not seeing it worth the effort for the comparatively few Linux users but it also means there won't ever be a large number of Linux users because the companies won't support it due to the low number of users. It's a catch-22.

    • @Artista_Frustrado
      @Artista_Frustrado 3 года назад +1

      ​ @James Matarrese thank you very much for the actually useful information.
      @@dirlrido2522 honestly it wouldn't be much of a gripe if Linux Fans didn't add "being able to use your old PC for current tasks" as a Why you should give Linux a try;
      Hopefully, SteamDeck/SteamOS does well enough people start asking manufacturers to support Linux (especially because Ergonomic Peripherals are kind of a necessity by the time you buy them, so them no longer working is kinda bad news)

    • @dirlrido2522
      @dirlrido2522 3 года назад +1

      @@Artista_Frustrado Almost all peripherals work, it's just certain features that don't always. I use a G502 Lightspeed and the the mat that charges it and both work completely as expected really.
      I can control the RGB through software and I'm not sure about button assignments because I just kept the on-board memory profiles from when I used to use Windows but I think you can change them too?
      People say Linux breathes new life into older hardware because it's so much lighter to run than Windows. If you go for a really light distro you can get it down to something like 100MB RAM usage or something crazy. My Manjaro KDE install is pretty heavy for a distro and still only uses half a gigabyte.
      But yeah as you said, hopefully cleaner support will become slightly more common soon.

  • @knixie
    @knixie 3 года назад +1

    personally this has started a fire in me to build on what kde is going for and try to build tools for "linux unity"

  • @TheLotw
    @TheLotw 3 года назад +9

    Use what works for you. If you like Windows then use it, like Apple, then use it.....

    • @crt5866
      @crt5866 3 года назад

      good take

    • @ethan-fel
      @ethan-fel 3 года назад +4

      main issue, PC gaming is in a jail atm, when Microsoft do something poorly, like Windows 11, Gaming suffer. We need more choice.

    • @Cyrus_Nagisa
      @Cyrus_Nagisa 3 года назад

      @@ethan-fel "do something poorly, like Windows 11" the OS is fine, runs great and uses less resources, only real problem was the AMD thing, and that was shown to be an issue on both ends and was fixed...

    • @asamodi6401
      @asamodi6401 3 года назад +2

      @@Cyrus_Nagisa This maybe true, but i switched to linux because now with windows 11, it’s gotten more and more bloated, and increased the level of forcing spyware in the OS, also i’m tired of Microsoft telling me how to use my computer and forcing new changes that i didn’t ask for.

    • @Cyrus_Nagisa
      @Cyrus_Nagisa 3 года назад

      @@asamodi6401 have not had windows do any of this what so ever

  • @ClumsyWoodsman
    @ClumsyWoodsman 3 года назад +1

    The Linus Linux saga has been my most anticipated vids of 2021.

    • @jebril
      @jebril 3 года назад

      Yeah they know that too and they're milking the series for everything they can lol.

  • @ujipsycues
    @ujipsycues 3 года назад +3

    Can I just highlight how cool it is that a review video like this has prompted multiple os fixes and documentation updates? That is seriously one of the cool things about Linux. Could you imagine Microsoft or Apple doing something similar? I can't.

  • @madmanmax120
    @madmanmax120 3 года назад +1

    I HAD THOSE TOWERFALL ISSUES AS WELL! Hearing you both mention that brought back that memory like lightning, we just swapped over to stick fight I think lol

  • @NullPointer
    @NullPointer 3 года назад +1

    The only idiot I saw saying that Linus was trolling or being a jerk to Linux was DistroTube, the others were a little confused by some of the issues Linus mentioned, but they were very understanding

    • @Dalamr
      @Dalamr 3 года назад

      yeah saw that too.

  • @monomonster
    @monomonster 3 года назад +2

    While I was listening to this I was doing an antiX Linux install on a Samsung XE500C12-K01US ex-Chromebook. Talk about a total computer geek experience.
    UPDATE: I decided to go with MX Linux on the Samsung.

  • @pdxgrantc
    @pdxgrantc 3 года назад +1

    I'd love to see the fresh install of windows 11 and your thoughts as it relates to gaming and desktop operation in general.

  • @brunoais
    @brunoais 3 года назад +1

    10:00 Given your explanation, I think the problems with us viewers lies on the focus given in the episodes. You gave focus on multiple things and those were basically problems and limitations. Hence the response from the crowd.
    I think it the episode was longer or split into more, so you could showcase more the things that went well, it would have shown much better the good and the bad

    • @Wehavecrashed
      @Wehavecrashed 3 года назад

      Linux running fine would have been a boring video.

    • @brunoais
      @brunoais 3 года назад

      @@Wehavecrashed That is not what I mean. What I mean is a more balanced focus between what worked and what didn't work.
      In the part 2, the editors chose to focus much more on what didn't work. I don't know if because of the footage Linus and Luke sent but that was what I noticed.

  • @wobedraggled
    @wobedraggled 3 года назад +1

    I recently wiped my Win11 drive and dropped in Deepin, other Linux distros need to pick up on the polish that it has, a windows user would feel almost instantly comfortable, based on Debian, and as long as you can get over the fact it's Chinese focused fist (Everything is in English don't fret) it's a stupidly smooth experience.

  • @CirkuitBreaker
    @CirkuitBreaker 3 года назад

    I don't know if anyone from LMG is going to see this, but I was unable to install DirectX end user redistributable on Windows 11, which is required for some older games. I'd love for someone from LMG to test this.

  • @Xtrems
    @Xtrems 3 года назад +1

    At 7:30 - Don't listen to people who blame all the issues on a distro. There's a ton of fanboys of distros in the linux community, and whatever distro you'd use, you'd see fanboys of other distros blame your problems on your choice. The fact of the matter is - distros are absolutely irrelevant. It's just a bundle of applications you get at the start. Even in things like packaging managers people overblow it to ridiculous extents - debian isn't THAT much more stable than arch, it just is, a little bit, more stable* (*on some machines). This is coming from someone who used linux for about 7 years. And I'm 21, so 7 years is one third of my life. At the beggining of linux usage as a newbie you thing distros are like different operating systems because they have different DE's, later you learn about other differences, including different policies of those who produce those distros, and think they are even more differing from each other, and at the end of your journey you learn that the differences are really not that important, cause everything is built on the same core and can be mixed and matched after installation.

    • @jebril
      @jebril 3 года назад

      Eh I disagree some distros are set up with bugs in their UI or how they've been configured. It's possible to fix any of them of course and get them right but they all have their unique quirks about them when you first do a fresh install. In the end though it's like you're saying any experienced Linux user will be able to tweak whatever distro they have to meet their needs.
      I do think out of the box for a fresh Linux user, Linux Mint (what Luke chose) was the most appropriate choice. I also think it's more interesting though that Linus chose Manjaro instead of Mint or Ubuntu because you have a completely different DE and package manager so it's really cool to see the comparison of the experience between the two.

  • @StarkRG
    @StarkRG 3 года назад +3

    GoXLR is prosumer, that is what is meant by exotic. Unless you're very lucky and the company that makes the device properly supports Linux, you'll have to rely on community projects. Prosumer devices are rarely made by companies that support Linux, and, because they're not ubiquitous devices, there's less of a community to support it.
    After seeing some discussions spawned by this Linux challenge I think there are some people who misattribute problems they have with Linux. In one case someone said they didn't have a problem with Nvidia's poor linux support and then went on to describe a major problem they had which sounded to me exactly like a problem I had with the Nvidia driver. Without knowing specifically what problems Linus had that were'nt obviously Linus-produced (such as having having discord in streaming mode because OBS is running, therefore disabling notifications, which I'm pretty sure happens on Windows, too) it's hard to tell what caused them.

  • @FennecTECH
    @FennecTECH 2 года назад +1

    ive never herd Manjaro described as “arch with training wheels” but i am stealing this.

  • @Todbrecher
    @Todbrecher 3 года назад

    regular windows machines won't be able to be virtualised on m1 chips. A friend of mine told me that she and her dad bought a dedicated windows pc as her dad needs those virtual machines for $stuff, and they both switched to m1 recently.
    I can't tell if the ARM Windows version would work though.

    • @MegaManNeo
      @MegaManNeo 3 года назад

      It does inside virtual machines, it seems.

  • @AndersJackson
    @AndersJackson 3 года назад +1

    I like that you did go in to Game in Linux.
    I have some issues with some things though, like that blaming the package manager for Linus forcing Pop OS! CLI apt to install the package against installation. So about apt not installed on non Debian distributions. If the GUI refuses to install the package, don't go into CLI and try, if you are not careful. But that is a learning experience, and you will not do that again.
    But then again, what happen to Linus is not all his fault, most are not. Like the faulty Stream package and him being a beginner, so he doesn't know about package managers in different distributions etc.

  • @teddymasters1347
    @teddymasters1347 3 года назад +1

    I was trying to install windows from the .iso file and it straigt up didn't work. I had to borrow a friends computer and get their special instilation media install tool because my other machene was linux

    • @gragogflying-anvil3605
      @gragogflying-anvil3605 3 года назад

      I use Ventoy for all kinds booting .iso files. It has a Linux tool to create such USB drive. Installed three Windows with it (don't blame me, they weren't my PCs). Might be worth a try next time.

  • @konyption
    @konyption 3 года назад +1

    FYI there are some graphical installers for Arch, next time you're gonna give linux a spin I'd recommend it. Although struggling through an old school arch install might teach you a lot, too.. lol

    • @jebril
      @jebril 3 года назад

      He should've honestly used Garudo Linux that one seems SOoooooooooooooooooooo friendly to the point that it's obnoxious lol.

  • @makisekurisu4674
    @makisekurisu4674 3 года назад +1

    I asked every linux manjaro forums/group and more to give me a solution for how I can't OC my Rx 570 for some reason.The advanced profiles weren't showing despite me following all those extremely obscure and really tricky instructions.
    I asked everybody that I can think off yet absolutely no one could give me an answer.Then I downgraded my kernel and it worked just fine.
    I was surprised how rare overclocking is on linux!
    Now I am having a new problem, I installed kde on an xfce install, it works but in kde I can't change the display arrangement anywhere!
    However, I really like the Manjaro ui,KDE is really nice,I would definitely recommend it to everyone.It's definitely more fun to use!

    • @mskiptr
      @mskiptr 3 года назад

      That sounds like a regression
      Kernel people would probably be interested in fixing that. And they are most likely the most competent ones to figure out what's actually going on

    • @mskiptr
      @mskiptr 3 года назад

      Try asking on _redacted_ or _redacted._ Directions can be found at backwards(lenrek)backwards(seibwen).backwards(gro)
      (backwards 'cause RUclips would not let me post any variation of that name)

    • @mskiptr
      @mskiptr 3 года назад

      redacted1=mailing list
      redacted2=IRC

    • @szaszm_
      @szaszm_ 3 года назад

      In KDE, you can change your display arrangement under System settings/Hardware/Display and monitor/Display configuration. I didn't try this setup but it's possible that both DE's settings manager services autostart and one overrides the other, which could cause the settings to not get properly applied on login. In that case you need to disable one of them and use the other to make settings changes.

  • @ArikGST
    @ArikGST Год назад

    14:40 I have not bought a computer with Windows on it since the year 2000. Since then, I have built my PCs myself and either migrated my hard drive or freshly installed. And let me tell you, basically since Windows 8.1, fresh install is REALLY EASY. You just click through a couple privacy settings, log into your Microsoft account or create one, Windows installs all the drivers (just not the current ones) and you are good to go, you got a browser, a firewall and antivirus backed in (they aren't great, but they work). I have run a small handful of Linux Distros and never had that easy of an experience (well, unless you count Android). Linux does not work for non-enthusiast users.

  • @raresmacovei8382
    @raresmacovei8382 3 года назад

    1:00, yes, you can run W11 ARM Insider Builds on Parallels on M1 Macs just fine

  • @l3edynamics
    @l3edynamics 3 года назад

    Wasn't Torvalds' dev box a threadripper?
    One thing though, it's not so much about exotic hardware. It's about not buying hardware with known compatibility. I've run linux for years and I don't buy things without checking linux support. Still manage to get caught out though like on my Thinkpad where I still haven't managed to get the LTE modem working (I made the mistake of assuming lenovo would continue their excellent linus track record).

  • @Ohem1
    @Ohem1 3 года назад

    Tried Remote Play with a friend of mine, we played Shovel Knight. Despite numerous settings I always had an intermittent lag spike/freeze stutter, neither of us has bad PCs and the game is hardly demanding, have good internet connections (I 250 up to/down, he 100 up to/down) - there's just no reason for the game to have that lagspike.

  • @AmanSubhan
    @AmanSubhan 3 года назад +1

    Totally agreed with Linus, your experiment have stirred allot of discussions and devs are now taking interest in making "using" linux distro easy, as compared to just run linux as super stable server/development OS

  • @adrianinsaval
    @adrianinsaval 3 года назад +2

    there's no excuse for how bad the windows intaller is... a multi billion dollar company makes yet a free installer for a free OS made by volunteers manages to be leagues better and easier

  • @WR3ND
    @WR3ND 3 года назад

    You should maybe try to use the GUI next time when you don't know terminal commands, and look at the Manjaro Hello screen like a normal newbie. It has an applications link and OBS is one of the featured packages. Just saying.

  • @SoulRollerFIN
    @SoulRollerFIN 3 года назад +2

    Just you all wait, this publicity plus Steam Deck coming up will be awesome for Linux and Linux Gaming. Personally I'm already very happy having used Linux as a daily driver for 5 years. I have 2 games that require a GPU passthrough VM. When EAC/Battleeye support is added, I no longer need to boot that VM up at all.

    • @foldionepapyrus3441
      @foldionepapyrus3441 3 года назад

      I really hope you are right, I too have been using GPU passthrough, long before Proton existed, so it was faff around with WINE (which is good stuff and can often be made to work) or run the VM and now its for the odd game that hasn't yet ticked the boxes to let the Anticheat stuff work with Proton. As far as I can tell all the big anti-cheats do now work with proton, just the game dev's might have to tick a box to say yes that is ok - which in some cases I know they haven't...
      (Unfortunately for now I can't do that either - my old workstation after about 10years of working well enough has started going wonky, so no more GPU pass through for me as the other PC only has the one GPU and no slot for expansion - so at some point I'll get to try out the Virgl hardware accelerated Virtual GPU that is supposed to be really quite good now, or miracles will happen and I can just purge that windoze VM entirely as Linux gaming will start getting the support...).
      However I can also see it just not making a blind bit of difference - the game Devs have all this inertia with making windoze games - if it costs them anything to change they likely won't, M$ and Nvidia are actively trying to stay on top and have lots of money behind them to make it happen - AMD and Valve have been between them doing lots of great work for linux gaming, but until Nvidia actually give a damn about LInux I'm not sure it really can happen - AMD GPU of each generation might be slightly better/worse on any metric you care to look at, but that really doesn't make much odds to making Linux gaming as convenient and good as it should be - what matters is they can't produce nearly enough of them if everyone wants to get away from the pain that is the Nvidia drivers, and pain they are with Linux, mostly functional is about the best you can say about them - said as somebody who hasn't been able to avoid them for quite some time...

  • @ryanmayobre7328
    @ryanmayobre7328 3 года назад

    I would like to see their impressions on using Gnome 40 with the Pop shell's window tiling. Gnome 40 has a lot of improvements and Pop shell is a great intro to window tiling for the average user.

  • @Skooma_Gnark
    @Skooma_Gnark 3 года назад +1

    14:35 that person never did a complete reinstall of a windows OS it seems xD
    i do that pretty much every year, because it gets sh** over time, bloated, and i changed stuff for the worse over time, and it just adds up ;(
    i dont go and buy a new PC then, WTF?

  • @zxuiji
    @zxuiji 3 года назад

    that tower fall thing, sounds like you would've been alright if you just had everyone be via remote play, sure the communication between local & remote needs looking at but as a quick fix I woulda tried all as remote

  • @jcugnoni
    @jcugnoni 3 года назад +1

    Whether the hardcore linux community like it or not is not the point: your video series is highlighting what has to be improved and that user-experience is the key focus to have to make Linux more accessible, simple, and thus enjoyable. You are thus having a huge contribution to the development of the Linux eco system. It is thus a success (even if I had some face-palm times looking at episode 2...)

  • @collinswisher6566
    @collinswisher6566 3 года назад

    I got the Hotline Miami bundle recently but I was never able to get Hotline Miami 1 to work in windows I installed it on my ubuntu dual boot and it worked flawlessly.

  • @jfftck
    @jfftck 3 года назад +2

    You can switch to Linux if you go with a computer that has it preinstalled, since the hardware was vetted. Windows is easier due to all hardware that you buy (outside of Apple) is made with Windows in mind, the fact that Nvidia drivers are garbage on Linux is more proof that hardware manufactures don’t normally even test on Linux. If you are looking to move to a fully open source SOC, RISC-V is already working on Linux, Windows doesn’t support it and you would be a fool to try and install it on that hardware for the same reason.

    • @petebateman143
      @petebateman143 3 года назад

      That's odd, I use Nvidia drivers on Ubuntu for Blender and it renders faster than in windows.....

  • @patriark
    @patriark 3 года назад

    As a recent Linux desktop convert, following your video series has been very validating. Both because of the initial frustration from making the plunge and being in unfamiliar waters who also happens to be a bit more risky, but also because it feels like desktop Linux now finally is at a place where it viably can compete for a much bigger role in desktops. For myself, turning to Linux also had the added benefit that I now feel a lot more comfortable setting up self-hosted servers and the like. It`s without a doubt a big benefit to open source that big communities like LTT are dipping your toes. Hopefully you stay for a full ride. There`s very few games I struggle with running on Linux right now, and with SteamOS I hope that list will diminish real fast!